i can't speak for others but for me i find the idea that this universe has multiple over lapping dimensions to be rather compelling. the materialistic view of the universe seems a bit incomplete in this perspective. the physical aspects of the universe are mostly empty space, with time being just another 'dimension' rather like the sides of various 'three dimensional objects'. imagine all of the other dimensions of yourself... a little more complex than penis, vagina and mouth...aint it.
@letyourangerout no, science is a word that comes from the latin word for knowledge. all science is is literally what we know. just because we don't know God exists doesn't mean shit. we didn't know the world was round but it was still round... similarly we still have much to learn about this universe and just might learn enough to finally satisfy people like you, who wouldn't believe in God if He slapped you in the face and said 'boo'...
@cwross1976 It's not just that there is no proof. It's that also the stories don't add up to the facts. For example, there's proof that when dinosaurs were alive, humans were not. And the bible says that humans were the first living thing he created (besides plants), and NOT dinosaurs. hmm...doesn't this sound wierd?
Nice vid. I unfortunately know someone who recently gave in to "partner pressure" (though they try to downplay it) and went from being a fairly staunch atheist to a theist. This came about from a conversation about what "deal-breakers" may exist in their relationship. Sadly, the other partner seems to believe that a beautiful relationship between two people of different faiths (or non faith) isn't worthy of their effort. To me, this is emotional manipulation and coercion of the worst kind.
these are lame arguements, u cant say that morals change and evolve over time, it doesnt matter where u are or where ur born on an island or in Manhatten new york u still have the same moral, god law is written inside us, even people who calim to be atheist lives life with a moral law wether they believe in god or not... =)
@Kurzhal09 Agree, this is what we call illusions... weak arguements these are common questions and points that I hear people say all the time and it's refuted all the time... I'm with you bro...
I would not dissent from your reasoning. But it seems to me to be profoundly inadequate. That is not a criticism of your video. It is simply a reflection of the fact that believers have to engage in dishonesty to such an extent that they can hardly be unaware of it. They claim to have the truth and yet knowingly utilise falsehoods to defend and propagate it. Somehow, the rational reasons you identify seem inadequate to explaining this paradox.
@stevehayes13 wrong. i am a believer as you say and am honest to a fault, i hurt peoples feelings all the time. rather than accuse you or any other nonbeliver of this same sort of wanton dishonesty i'll just ask one question. how can yours be a superior position based on logic and reason when you are simply engaing in the same form of faith based belief system, just in reverse? so far science has not provided anything like proof of God's nonexistence, and never will. it can't.
@cwross1976 This is completely disingenuous. First, hurting other people's feelings is hardly evidence of honesty; and is, anyhow, beside the point. Second, not believing in gods is not a faith based belief system; it is the absence of belief. Third, the burden of proof on the issue of the existence of any god resides with the person asserting it; your attempt to shift that burden is, ironically, just another illustration of the intellectual dishonesty of god believers.
Thank you for the video. Being raised an Atheist it was REALLY hard for me to understand why people believe in religion. Too me, even as a child it sounded more like a fairy tale and I thought to myself why do people believe in this but not something like Santa Claus? They have the same credibility. But your reasons make sense and I now see where these religious people are coming from. Although I still think they foolish and delusional, I don't think they are quite as "crazy" as before.
GreenDragon23 really has some of the best videos I've ever seen on youtube , but is the music you put in it really necessary , or relevant to the point , maybe try some instrumentals that describe the mood that one might feel due to the point, but other then the music i think the videos are perfect.
A few Questions. Why do you want to know all that information if there is no purpose. Why don't YOU except the reality of no purpose. Why continue to exist. What good does it to except the notion that you have no purpose? Why do you chose to have a negative outlook on the situation. You have to understand, the choice is all in your mind. Your the one wanting to remain miserable and confused. I think its obvious what the better choice is. You do not have the perspective to comprehend Faith.
Good sir your not one to talk about choices and things being in someones head. The choice of no purpose relates to objective reality , your faith only relates to you subjective reality, your faith only exist in you mind , your chemicals in your brain are the only think convincing you of your faith.
Accept, not except; you're, not your. This gets into a basic philosophical question, but still doesn't mean that you're correct to have the blind faith of believing in a supernatural deity. Maybe we get up because we enjoy the things in life. Why do you continue to live on Earth if you are "certain" that there is an infinitely perfect place you get to go to when you die? Actually, it wouldn't be "you" that goes but your spirit, right?
Continuing from my previous reply to you, TruLiberal, does your spirit share the same physical desires, tendencies, necessities, etc. that your physical form does? Does your soul or spirit have preferences over the types of images that it perceives? Does your soul prefer certain sounds over others? All of these are examples of physical processes, which means that there must be a physical body for these processes to occur. But isn't your soul independent of your body?
The end of my previous reply is assuming that only invisible things can occupy an invisible location; our physical bodies don't leave our grave site and travel to an invisible location. Must I go on, or do you see how ridiculous this all sounds?
because athiests think fo ourselfs and dont follow the aspects of others, religious people belive purpose is thrust apon them, athiest get up in the morning and find out there own purpose, we explore, we think, we invent. and we are not misrable and in no way confused we rely on facts to find the truth stuff people have provon, not stories in a book that have no physical evidence to support it. im writing this cos im bored, you wrote your statment cos your upset, whos the misrible one?
I have examined my religion, I am a christian, with a firm belief that Christ died and rose again so that his blood may cover humanities sins.. but anyway. I think the logical thinking is intresting... What you consider logical really depends on societies standards, true? If it were accepted in society to kill people, then it would be logical. What stops people from doing that... society's influence. Now, whats the difference between "society's" logic and "religious" logic? Answer please
rellik120 response: society's logic is based on natural instinct, and religious logic is similar because it was invented by man while using his instinctive logic.
natural instinct?so we have a natural instinct to come up with a God? hmm. intresting, ive always been told that God was created to keep people controlled. I've very rarely hear from someone who doesn't believe in a God, that man has looked towards a God for direction and a reason for living. Instinctive logic, animilistic logic are they different in your opinion?
why do men ( with instinctive logic ) look for a God, or something beyond the physical world? Why do we long for something more?
you may not long for something more, but why does that make everyone else who does ( even those not in church ;) ) look for something more, weak and, in mr. mlpayne's opinion, stupid? Is is so hard to believe that you may have to be accountable, wait no.. not accountable but that you may have been gracefully forgiven and you have a reason for being, I don't understand how it is easier for you to believe in NO afterlife... not even christianity, just afterlife itself?
you may not long for something more, but why does that make everyone else who does ( even those not in church ;) ) look for something more, weak and, in mr. mlpayne's opinion, stupid? Is is so hard to believe that you may have to be accountable, wait no.. not accountable but that you may have been gracefully forgiven and you have a reason for being, I don't understand how it is easier for you to believe in NO afterlife... not even christianity, just afterlife itself?
By instinctive logic i mean ("man kill") ("other men come to conclusion that killing will not get you or society anywhere") ("man invent god to control using logic")
And by "instinctive logic" i mean man is too stupid to comprehend death so god is the easiest answer to cope with. Because for some reason we are one of the only species that thinks we are suppose to be happy... in simplest words i cant think of .... GOD IS A REASON TO BE GOOD FOR NO REASON.
You have no basis for morals. By what you believe Hitler did nothing wrong. I would not want to stand next to you. You would kill me if it would benefit you, and as long as you could get away with it. That my friend is something to be feared not God.
how can you say that i just proved how we do have morals...when i kill someone i feel terrible not because god wants me to , but because of millions of years of cause and effect and evolution have made it that way...and i do not believe in killing people my logic can determine what is fair. And by fair i mean treat people as i wanna be treated. if i killed someone i would feel terrible because i would think about if someone was hurting me and i didnt deserve it .OO and BTW HITLER was a CATHOLIC
but what your saying is that evolution itself, and the law of cause and effect have created what we know as guilt and remorse? There is no other animal on this whole entire planet that feels bad for killing another. How can you say that? They've had millions and trillions of years to evolve too, why wouldn't they have emotion or remorse? I just don't understand payne... Why is it just humans over the tril. of years are the only ones to evolve to the point where we have emotions and ect.?
Rellik Our intelligence that we have evolved to has caused us to have these feelings true.You say that other animals wouldnt feel bad about killing another animal.Well is there any animal in the entire world that you can name thats as smart as a human. So im basically saying that the reason we have feelings and other animals dont is because we have evolved to have far more superior intelligence you cant prove animals have no guilt animals have better morals then humans they dont kill there own
my friend male lions kill other lions young, gerbils eat their own young,there are many other examples of species killing their own. I will say this, if we are going with the evolution standard we are the only ones to become dangerous to this planet. So you believe animals may have some sort of guilt or moral system to their behavior? That seems a bit odd. and why out of all the other animals that came ( supposedly ) from that singled-celled org., are humans the one to be on top? Chance?
@hilbert54 Well this is going nowhere fast, there was no point to begin with douchebag...Final message: You have the intellect of a retarded 12 year old and suck Jesus's cock or whatever kind of bizarre shit you believe in. There's my point bitch.
@hilbert54 Oh, and what exactly and I suppose to make a point out of your nonsense? Your comment doesn't even have anything to do with his final point. Hes talking about defense mechanisms we use to make ourselves believe in god and that we have evolved enough to not need them. And you start commenting about your cat, emotions and then you ask a stupid question followed by an insult. WTF is that? If you really believe in god, do him a favor and never open your lil fucking pathetic mouth again.
Lol, you fuckwit, I was replying to Rellik120, the comment immediately above miine. I am an atheist you dumb shit. You reply to a comment to someone else that is one year old and throw some random childish insult, with no idea what you are talking about.
Go read the comment above the one of mine that you ragged on and my comment might make some sort of sense.
Anyway you might take this as a lesson in how not to proceed.
If men use instinctive logic as animals do, ( i assume thats what you believe ) why do we look for a spiritual world, why do a lot of people believe in more than just the physical visible world? Is it hard to believe that we may have been given enough conceptual knowledge to aknowledge a God or a spiritual world beyond ours? Or do you really just believe it's a Man made ideal made for the weak?
you are right. I am mostly an atheist, but raised catholic. I find it hard to give up some of the ideas. For example, even though I am atheist, I still want an afterlife. I'm kinda in between atheist and agnostic. I know the god that we think of isn't real, but maybe something else is.
Pretty depressing...honestly you made some good points though. Not sure bout the whole morality part cause pretty much some form of religion has existed for as long as we have records. Just because it's not a major religion and polytheism doesn't take away from the basic idea. There's really no way to prove this point.
for all you atheists you better hope GOD isnt real.Better to believe that GOD is real and find out hes not,than to not believe and find out he is real
Isn't it rather pathetic to believe something out of paranoia? If there is a god (and I'm not saying there is), wouldn't he want people to believe what they see as truth instead of believing things purely for self-preservation?
watch3456, DO NOT threaten me with your stupid Pascal's wager! (Either that or bow down to the FSM or he will strangle you next time you east spaghetti!)
This video has lots of good points..points i have been trying to get across for some time....people just ignore it because they know that the points are correct and it annoys them, so..like the whole 'ego' point...yeah, they will simply disregard it because they don't want to admit it!
There is no point arguing over this video. It has only been viewed 1251 times so it is not some big deal. Very few people are actually looking at it, so we had better use our time and energy on another video that is getting more views. If you want to fight then pick them more wisely. Small skirmishes such as this are a waste of effort. This is just an opinion video; the author does not give any true scientific evidence he just makes assertions and tries to make them sound absolute.
a) you seem to lack basic courtesy and communication skills (pretty common for an ignorant religious individual however)
b) Have no expertise regarding abiogenesis; and I also doubt that you have the congitive ability to actually lookup the research articles on the subject
You have also probably clearly never done a careful study of Christianity/Judiasm, or it's roots. We don't believe these because of what you say, you are not an athority figure on the subject you discuss. And dont say "life has no purpose" as if it is fact. Your "social and evolutionary reasons" also have no evidence.
"probably clearly" is redundant. There is every bit of evidence we need for evolution to be a fact. People just wish it was still just a hypothesis because it goes against what their god says. There really is, in fact, no debate about it.
okay. just say life began from a "creator" a hyper intelligent, omniscient know it all being. how can u possibly believe that this creator is concerned with primitive human thought, morals and his creations must adhere to them or else they burn. that to me is insane. and clearly man made fear mongering. u religous folk talk about "god" like he has the same social intelligence as us. if he created the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. why would he give 2 shits about our personal thoughts/actions...lol....
Not to mention, if he were omniscient and omnipotent, he would know everything thats ever happened and will happen, so why would we need to pray to him? He already knows and has decided your fate. IDiots can't seem to grasp this.
sadly, i am still driven by ego, i still have a "faith" of sorts in re-incarnation. or soul recycling. but thats just my own personal belief to satisfy the "ego" as u say. but i certainly dont believe in any religion, hell, devil, god, and the primitive man made laws that must be adhered to..religions are just socially accepted cults, and our evolution will eventually eradicate these archaic beliefs. its just a shame i wont be around by that time
How do I know that this is the reality?. are you 100% sure that indeed there is no entities out there that live in another dimension where material presence is not needed just an intelligent awareness?. What would you say about the quantum science discoveries?.
Hmm, I find it sad that people always assume that religious people are not logical thinkers and abandon science. I am currently a college student and the majority of my classes have been science, and I am make nothing but high Bs and As. I have chosen to embrace both sides. You see I look at science as a way to learn about the world God has created and find new ways of improving our lives.
I know that religious people CAN be logical and scientific; the fact is that many religious people compartmentalize their illogical/delusional beliefs. This compartmentalization is how one can be quite logical with regards to all subjects EXCEPT for religion.
Does the fact that I am a Christian really make that big of a difference on the study of medicine or technology? Finding the origin of man really does not do any side any good. If you are looking to prove evolution then all you are doing is using the time that you could have used to create and learn something new that could better the human race. The same thing goes for religion; however, from my experience, study of religion—for the most part—is done on one's own free time.
Actually, evolution is an accepted scientific theory that has MANY implications for the medical field. Understanding evolution helps us understand genetics, potential gene therapies, how to combat evoling bacteria (and changing viruses), etc.
These are just some of the many applied fields that evolution plays a huge role in.
In fact, the mere fact that your religion is causing you to suggest that we abandon this valuable line of inquiry is more evidence that religion can and does HARM knowledge and progress.
I agree with GreenDragon23...technology and advancement without theory is dangerous...it ignores the implications of what we are doing. Being brought up in an environment that was both logical and scientific, I've learned to see science in a religious context. It helps that I was born Hindu...we believe that the individual soul is a part of the soul of the universe, the supreme being.
If you think of the universe as a closed system with a fraction that is self-aware, then there you have God. An individual, also a (somewhat) closed system of which a fraction (the CNS) is self-aware, makes up a component of the self-aware universe, which is omnipotent. Thus, I feel that the mission of humanity/sapient life is to become omnipotent and self-sustaining.
Unfortunately, the current thinking that religious people are not being logical is being ingrained into children by the current educational system. You can just look at all the attack using separation of church and state, where the secular point of view is then taught.
That law was made by a predominantly Christian group, I'm sorry if you feel attacked by it but we couldn't teach religion in schools, that is a personal endeavor. We used too, but science stayed in school and realized it couldn't comment on religion because there are hundreds. It has little to do about escaping Christianity because it is just one of many that pulls at people saying 'believe in me, no believe in me!'
BTW - believing in a particular religion is illogical - you are accepting an absurd hypothesis that not only lacks evidence, but has circumstancial evidence against it!
Now even if you are raised in the Bible belt you can admit that the average person will spend more time in school than studying their religion or attending a religious service, which I admit is a good thing. It is a wonderful thing to learn and to logically working out problems is a good thing; however, science is changing all the time at one point it was widely accepted among the scientific community that the world was flat... Did that make it correct?
Actually Pythagoras postulated a spherical earth in 300 or so B.C.E. while in later years the church which controlled most knowledge stated that the bible hinted at a flat earth. The suppression of knowledge conflicting with the bible continued until the crusades ended, then you get a heliocentric solar system and a round earth and it's near exact dimensions, which was actually already known to a Greek mathematician.
scienceminded hit this nail right on the head. I have nothing more to add at this point, except that, if anything, your argument is showing just how much harm religion has casued to our knowledge pool
Next, let's look at the notion that religion is used to start wars. While this has been true, that religion has been used for the conquest of many civilizations, it is completely naive to believe that it was the only reason. For the most part wars are raged for a group of peoples gain, be it land, power, money, etc. Anyway, this is as far as I am going to take this, I need some sleep.
I never said that there would be no wars without religion; but, as you admit yourself, religion helps to push for wars and justify them. If one is to reduce wars, then one must take away as many factors as one can that cause/influence wars.
There may be no perfect solution; but that does not mean that we should engage in a perfect solution fallacy and merely quit trying to prevent conflict.
also, i accept science, evolution could definitly be possible. i accept i may be wrong in the end, if so, and i die, cease to exist it doesn't bother me, cause i already know i have nothing to lose. i choose to believe in God-Jesus, cause it works for me. if i had the facts that there is no God, you can bet yer ass, i'd be out screwing, doing lots of drugs, drinking, not giving a flying crap about anybody, cause there's no God. i am being honest.
Boddy,I have also studied varous religions & in my opinion, there is nothing wrong to have a religion. Religion is harmful to society when one follows blindly, especially to these religious fundamentalists, and want to kill everybody who is non-religious or who believe in another religion...like recently a welknown evangelist pledged support to a Republican candidate just because he can't stand the Moslim religion in Iraq. (cont)
So the Christians will again die for their religion & the Moslims will die for theirs! When is this going to end? A thousand years of Crusades against the Moslims & vice versa is still not enough? However, I don not believe if you do not have a religion, you will behave badly. A person who has searched for knowledge for so long,will be wise enough to choose good because it is the right & noble thing to do.
yes, i see what you are saying, i agree with that. i believe that the people who want to kill all who is non-religious, are socio-pathic in nature,they call themselves christian, but are still very evil inside themselves. religion spirituality isn't evil and bad in itself, its the people that do the evil. don't matter what religion. pisses me off too! lol
I appreciate your honesty, but it disturbs me how many people need an external motivator to be moral.
Also, when logically evalauting an argument (such as the existence of god), we start from a null hypothesis which states that the argument is untrue. We can only reject the null if we get evidence to support the argument.
So, from a logical standpoint, engaging in a negative proof argument (e.g., believing something because it cannot be proven to be UNTRUE) is a fallacy.
Also, evolution is true. Some of the exact mechanisms and hostory is not yet filled in, but evolution is known to be so.
Anyways, I do appreciate your honesty, and I am glad that you have shared your views. :)
i doubt youd do that if you knew there was no god, our morals arent bred into us through a bible or koran but through our own mental awareness and our own judgements. In the end though you do have something to lose, everything. U might waste your life sacrificing and following morals that arent your own. Is that really a negligiable loss? wasting your one moment in the sun that you will never get back and abandoning the chance to understand the universe when it conflicts with a belief
i don't let my beliefs stop me from reading whatever i want, enjoying nature, dancing, playing guitar, watching movies. i follow the ten commandments, and giving up sex before marriage to me isn't a big deal looool! plus, i done enough partying in my lifetime to kill me, but i survived, the prodigal daughter has returned! looooool!
Yeah it's just that the people posting creationist work on YT often think without the bible you're a conniving evil animal, and they are lost without the bible themselves. Self control and morality is a survival instinct and I am glad it is, I love community and family like most people, I know the repercussions of my actions through experience and the knowledge of my ancestors if that is a valid analogy.
i am a christian, but i came back to Jesus more on a spiritual level than religious, on my own, i am a loner, i don't attend church. i have also in the past explored many different religions, i was into wicca for 6 years and my family accepted me even though they are christian. but, you do make great points! it is very true for alot of christians, but not all of us fit into that.
dude, considering well documented apostolic succession and well documented early church history, im pretty sure they did exist. also, when you claim that a mass number of people are lying to the populace, you should suply some peice of evidence, that's how we roll the american judicial system anyway. o but did the founding fathers actually exist? you tell me bud.
First off, if we hypothetically assume that the apostles really did exist [I am not saying that they did or did not], there are MANY reasons to make/maintain a religion:
-1) The roman empire was oppressing them - religion is a great way to manipulate the masses and get assistance
-2) Religion is also a good source of income [and power]
Secondly, when ANYONE gets up and claims that there is a magical being named Jesus, and one called God, etc., they ARE lying to the masses.
There is no evidence for these myths; therefore, anyone who claims that there is is a liar.
It is as simple as that.
BTW - There are MANY MANY outside sources that support the existence of the founding fathers. As for the apostles, there is not much outside info to support it.
dude have you read acts? the early church lived in community, they gave the vast majority of their cash to the poor. Also, the apostles all got killed(except john)(so they hardly had power)Also, what makes you so sure the bible was fabricated? just because someone COULD have lied doesn't mean they DID, how cynical can u get?(c..)
and like i said earlier, the apostles had no motive at all to lie, so why would they lie about a "magical" Jesus. did Jesus deceive them, oops he died for it too! generally when you call someone a liar, you supply some kind of evidence to back up your accusation. anything? also, the apostles were hardly the first people to say there is one called God.
First off, POLITICAL REVOLUTION AND DISPELLING AN OPPRESSIVE REGIME are powerful motivators to use religion on the gullible masses (that is just ONE of MANY possible reasons to lie; presupposing that the apostles even existed, which is not even supported by objective sources!!).
They had MANY potential reasons to lie/steal little pieces of old customs and pagan religions to make a new religion.
SECONDLY, anthropoligcal and arcehological evidence DO NOT SUPPORT the bible, physics does not support the bible, fossil evidence/order of evolution do not support the bible, etc, etc, etc.
Honestly, the Norse mythology has just as much evidence to support it as your Christian mythology does (but the norse mythology at least contains some interesting stories).
Your time line is way off man, Jesus and the apostles were all dead (and resurrected in Jesus' case) long before any political revolution ever occurred. How many objective sources do we have about fishermen in the first century man? "They had MANY potential reasons to lie/steal little pieces of old customs and pagan religions to make a new religion." Who are "they" in this case? (c...)
Your SECONDLY point I assume refers to the creation of the earth in Genesis. 1. I don't believe the world was actually created in 7 days, God probly formed the earth over billions of years, but idk, maybe he created it 4 seconds ago. C...
2. An all powerful creator of all, would not be bound by his own creation(anthropology, physics, etc.). Can God make a rock that even he cannot lift? And dang, have you even read the bible? Some bible stories are freakin sweet, maccabees is crazy stuff man check it out. Your last point is just terrible, look at it again and correct it yourself. Sleepy time for me, peace dude
Secondly, you are presupposing that your particular god even exists, and more to the point, you are presupposing that your god is responsible for the existence of the Earth.
These are wild assumptions on your part and are not based on ANY evidence at all... just some old campfire stories made up and propogated by nomadic desert people.
Also, omnipotentence (i.e. something being 'all powerful') is a self-contradicting concept. It would be quite impossible for an all-powerful being to exist: just look at the rock dilemma.
If it could make a rock that it could not lift, then it would not be all-powerful because it could not lift the rock.
However, if it could not make a rock that it could not lift, then it would not be all powerful because it would lack the ability to make said rock.
The Bible IS fabricated because it is stupid! A God should not be dumber than me for instance :) Take even the very 1st commandment: I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before me. This suggested there are more than one God existing and each one is competing for business(which contrardicts the the Bible itself) (cont..
It strikes resemblance to to-day's evangelists: give me your money, not to the church down the street. IF THERE WERE ONE TRUE GOD, WHATEVER ONE ADORES WILL BE ACCREDITED TO THE SAME ONE NOT MATTER WHAT, isn't it. Bible is full of these stupid statements that it could only be written by man & sadly not even by a smart man LOL
the first commandment refers to fake gods, people used to think there were many gods, God was simply telling the hebrews not to do idol worship. you say you're smart, but you qoute stuff w/o knowing jack about the context. obviously i don't think anyone aproves of today's for-profit evangelists, jut because people are using a belief system for their own gain doesn't mean the belief system is flawed, it means the con man is.
I was expecting a lot of rubbish from this but i really thought it was good. Can't agree more (particuarly with the sections on taboo and egocentrism). Does nobody else think its silly to have the faith ur parents have rather than learn everything and critically assess all the facts and beliefs and go with whats logical?... however i think if it could suddenly be "proven" to everybody that god doesnt exist there would be anarchy. i think religion will slowly die out over hundreds of years.
I do find it silly that people adopt whatever they are raised into without question. The most absurd part is how convinced that can be that their's is the "one true faith", even though it just happended to be what they were born into.
I also agree that religion has to die slowly, or else the fundamentalists would become even more fundamental and the death kicks of religion could do some serious damage to society.
your first statement is just straight up wrong, do you know how many ex-christians there are? also, although i was raised catholic and i am a practicing catholic, i did not blindly accept all teachings of the catholic church without question. for example, i am currently wondering about the logic behind holy days of obligation. so, im going to do a lil research about hdobs.
You have even said it yourself: you were born and raised into the religion. The sociocultural influences that surrounded you since your birth have had an enormous impact on the development of your attitudes and beliefs, even if you are not conscious of this fact.
The main reason that so many people are leaving religions is these days is that it is becoming easier and easier to access information.
And you were born and raised into secular society. Which is why you are an athiest. Are you trying to get at the "christians are brainwashed" idea? (*crosses fingers, say yes, say yes, say yes.)
the bible belt of america isn't a secular society? give me a break dude, just because you go to church every christmas and easter doesn't mean you're a devout christian. since you don't like me making inferences(what's wrong with making inferences anyway?) why don't you describe your religious upbringing, and ill tell you why it's not brainwashing.
The bible belt is NOT a secular society. In fact, religion seeps into almost everything - which, by definition, means that it is not secular!
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing inherently wrong with making inferences - inferential processes are fairly good heurisitcs; however, your inferences are proving to be consistently incorrect.
I didn't have a religious upbrining (another one of your incorrect inferences).
I was raised in a household that neither promoted, nor discourgaed, me from seeking out any religion.
As a child and a teen, I examined the beliefs of all of the various religions around me; I found it fascinating that so many people could so strongly accept these stories; I wondered if there was any truth behind them.
So I did a little research, and I came to the obvious conclusion that all religions are simply man-made.
As you can see, I may have been raised in a religious culture, but my family gave me unconditional, non-judgmental support that fostered my growth and enables to seek out all avenues of knowledge without fear or guilt.
I simply came to the obvious conclusion: religion = delusion.
wow the apostles must have really sucked at making religions, they got themselves killed over it, why make something up that would get you killed? (this is obviously not conclusive evidence that christianity is true, but it's something to think over) you'll probably counter with, "they be crazy!!"
I do think religion is beginning its death throes though. It may take another one or two hundred years, but eventually religion (or at least the dogmatic belief variety of religion) will be a mere shadow of itself. Spirituality may live on in some form. But as we solve the problems of death, cure illnesses, grow organs, create new life, create artificial intelligence, and expand our knowledge ever onward, dogmatic religion will fall. Hopefully humanity survives religions death throes.
I do hope that religion is in its death throes. Some evidence (increasing number of atheists/agnostics, etc.) suggests that this is so. On the other hand, Christian and Muslim fundamentalists procreate at an alarming rate, and brainwash their children into their delusion.
Well, it (religion) sure IS doing a lot of kicking and screaming lately. They're getting louder and more 'in your face'. This portends an internal knowledge amongst themselves that they are feeling more threatened than ever. But by what? Each other? Not so much. By scientific knowledge, progress, and advancement. They perceive that secularism and humanism are far more credible, and even they know in the back of their minds they have few legs left to stand on.
In Ontario, John Tory, leader of the Conservative party, lobbied mainly by the Evangelist & Jewish community, promised to give government funding to religious schools if elected. Conservatives(equivalent to Republicans in US) was leading until the Canadians saw this funding as segregating Canadian people. Yesterday, He and his party has suffered the worst defeat in recent Ontario history, entirely due to this single issue. People are not as blind as they use to be.
It is interesting how religion has only served to hold humanity back in the last few centuries. It has been a huge source of conflict, and has stifled scientific progress that could help humanity. Perhaps had humanity given up its insistent beliefs in various commanding deities we would have been far more advanced today and have even discovered means by which to make life last much longer if not forever. Of course this would require expansion into the universe (where'd we probably be by now).
Believe me, it is absolutely a WASTE OF TIME or breath for ANYBODY using scientific arguments in discussion with religious people. The logic is if they have a scientific mind, they will not become religious in the first place. Do you see the paradox ?
Simply brilliant. You are being a bit (just a bit) harsh on religious people, though. After all, they have every right to beleive in whatever nonsense they want to beleive in. If they could only be more respectfull toward people who disagree with them...
In my country the word "atheist" is equivalent to "immoral" and "satanic", which is really a shame.
It may seem a little harsh, but I take a 'tough love' approach when it comes to helping people deal with delusions (like religion).
I do agree with you on that point. I would have no problem with religion if it wasn't for the fact that it encourages people to treat others badly, remain ignorant, etc.
You are from Honduras? That is truly a shame [about atheist being synonomous with immoral].
Yes, Im from Honduras. I was bit freaked out there, for a while I had forgotten that I had that in my profile. But anyway, I would advise you to stay away from my country. Its a boiling pot of ignorance and discrimination, a land where mass lobotomy is the norm, and if you try to be any different you are considered a nuisance to society, unless you keep it a secret, of course.
This is my final post to you, since, you have nothing relevant to share. You really are just a rambling ignorant fool that has no purpose, as you so elegantly expressed in your video. This applies to you, not for me, nor will your ridiculous fallacious claims suggest otherwise. That is the only thing I agree with you. Thanks for sharing that part. It explains YOUR EXISTENCE!!! HA! HA!
I suggest in the future that you actually read and respond, instead of skirt the question. Look at your response, it is hilarious, you actually never even attempted to address my question. Thanks for playing. This was fun! If you actually want to inform people, I suggest try responding to their questions.
It is a belief, period! But hey live in your "imaginary" existence and keep believing in something you can not prove. Thats right can not prove. If you can then we have something to talk about, but since you can not answer this question, I have nothing more to discuss with you.
I believe you should read up on philosophy a little. Science isnt all there is and can only answer some questions....most of the time the ones that are the most unimportant,..God Bless
thats true and all, but science has also caused blindness or ignorance in people just as religion has by blocking out reality with television and so on. not to mention technology has also killed many people, just as religion, the problem is figuring out which is the lesser evil.
In your videos you constantly shoot down religion, making your videos bias. I myself am an atheist but I do not like seeing one sided arguments.
Religion divides people and anything that divides people is no good for society, especially nowadays the world is getting more global. Anything that unites people is in the right direction. The world would not have this much fighting if we do not have Christians fighting the Moslim like hell, in the name of their 'true god'.
I agree with ppplll on this one - any system that sets up group dyanmics leads to conflict. Also, religion is a powerful force of destruction - it has the ability to brainwash people into thinking that they will be rewarded for blowing themselves up to kill women and children.
Technology and science, on the other hand, do not promote group dynamics or teach silly ideas. Also, technology has saved MANY lives - just look at the medical field.
i can't speak for others but for me i find the idea that this universe has multiple over lapping dimensions to be rather compelling. the materialistic view of the universe seems a bit incomplete in this perspective. the physical aspects of the universe are mostly empty space, with time being just another 'dimension' rather like the sides of various 'three dimensional objects'. imagine all of the other dimensions of yourself... a little more complex than penis, vagina and mouth...aint it.
cwross1976 4 months ago
god doesn't and nevr did exist. Just face it. There's no proof, and the stories don't add up. We were created by science. Not a god.
letyourangerout 10 months ago
@letyourangerout no, science is a word that comes from the latin word for knowledge. all science is is literally what we know. just because we don't know God exists doesn't mean shit. we didn't know the world was round but it was still round... similarly we still have much to learn about this universe and just might learn enough to finally satisfy people like you, who wouldn't believe in God if He slapped you in the face and said 'boo'...
cwross1976 4 months ago
@cwross1976 It's not just that there is no proof. It's that also the stories don't add up to the facts. For example, there's proof that when dinosaurs were alive, humans were not. And the bible says that humans were the first living thing he created (besides plants), and NOT dinosaurs. hmm...doesn't this sound wierd?
letyourangerout 4 months ago
Nice vid. I unfortunately know someone who recently gave in to "partner pressure" (though they try to downplay it) and went from being a fairly staunch atheist to a theist. This came about from a conversation about what "deal-breakers" may exist in their relationship. Sadly, the other partner seems to believe that a beautiful relationship between two people of different faiths (or non faith) isn't worthy of their effort. To me, this is emotional manipulation and coercion of the worst kind.
Jmortal 1 year ago
these are lame arguements, u cant say that morals change and evolve over time, it doesnt matter where u are or where ur born on an island or in Manhatten new york u still have the same moral, god law is written inside us, even people who calim to be atheist lives life with a moral law wether they believe in god or not... =)
samuellis 1 year ago
I say your first three points and that was all I needed. Dumb arguments.
Kurzhal09 1 year ago
@Kurzhal09 Agree, this is what we call illusions... weak arguements these are common questions and points that I hear people say all the time and it's refuted all the time... I'm with you bro...
samuellis 1 year ago
I would not dissent from your reasoning. But it seems to me to be profoundly inadequate. That is not a criticism of your video. It is simply a reflection of the fact that believers have to engage in dishonesty to such an extent that they can hardly be unaware of it. They claim to have the truth and yet knowingly utilise falsehoods to defend and propagate it. Somehow, the rational reasons you identify seem inadequate to explaining this paradox.
stevehayes13 1 year ago
@stevehayes13 wrong. i am a believer as you say and am honest to a fault, i hurt peoples feelings all the time. rather than accuse you or any other nonbeliver of this same sort of wanton dishonesty i'll just ask one question. how can yours be a superior position based on logic and reason when you are simply engaing in the same form of faith based belief system, just in reverse? so far science has not provided anything like proof of God's nonexistence, and never will. it can't.
cwross1976 4 months ago
@cwross1976 This is completely disingenuous. First, hurting other people's feelings is hardly evidence of honesty; and is, anyhow, beside the point. Second, not believing in gods is not a faith based belief system; it is the absence of belief. Third, the burden of proof on the issue of the existence of any god resides with the person asserting it; your attempt to shift that burden is, ironically, just another illustration of the intellectual dishonesty of god believers.
stevehayes13 4 months ago
Thank you for the video. Being raised an Atheist it was REALLY hard for me to understand why people believe in religion. Too me, even as a child it sounded more like a fairy tale and I thought to myself why do people believe in this but not something like Santa Claus? They have the same credibility. But your reasons make sense and I now see where these religious people are coming from. Although I still think they foolish and delusional, I don't think they are quite as "crazy" as before.
Almay420 1 year ago
Comment removed
Dreamdarknesstechno 2 years ago
Great points. Especially for Ego
SrM90 3 years ago
Yes, i agree with that it makes sense.
blueraacoon 2 years ago
aint you got any respect for dr. martin luther king? man was a preacher, what do you make of that?
charliehorse12345 3 years ago
Great fallacy of association. Some preachers also do meth, does that mean that being a preacher causes meth use?
Think about what you are saying.
GreenDragon23 3 years ago
great video!, I'd love to see a video on the genesis of religion.
soulinite 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GET THE FACTS ABOUT GOD
You can find out factual knowledge about God; you've just been asking the wrong people. Any and all questions you ask will be answered.
Go to my channel, "Purushadasa" to get the answers to your questions NOW!
Purushadasa 3 years ago
GreenDragon23 really has some of the best videos I've ever seen on youtube , but is the music you put in it really necessary , or relevant to the point , maybe try some instrumentals that describe the mood that one might feel due to the point, but other then the music i think the videos are perfect.
mlpayne89 3 years ago
A few Questions. Why do you want to know all that information if there is no purpose. Why don't YOU except the reality of no purpose. Why continue to exist. What good does it to except the notion that you have no purpose? Why do you chose to have a negative outlook on the situation. You have to understand, the choice is all in your mind. Your the one wanting to remain miserable and confused. I think its obvious what the better choice is. You do not have the perspective to comprehend Faith.
TruLiberal 3 years ago
Good sir your not one to talk about choices and things being in someones head. The choice of no purpose relates to objective reality , your faith only relates to you subjective reality, your faith only exist in you mind , your chemicals in your brain are the only think convincing you of your faith.
mlpayne89 3 years ago
Accept, not except; you're, not your. This gets into a basic philosophical question, but still doesn't mean that you're correct to have the blind faith of believing in a supernatural deity. Maybe we get up because we enjoy the things in life. Why do you continue to live on Earth if you are "certain" that there is an infinitely perfect place you get to go to when you die? Actually, it wouldn't be "you" that goes but your spirit, right?
RussianAssassin21 3 years ago
Continuing from my previous reply to you, TruLiberal, does your spirit share the same physical desires, tendencies, necessities, etc. that your physical form does? Does your soul or spirit have preferences over the types of images that it perceives? Does your soul prefer certain sounds over others? All of these are examples of physical processes, which means that there must be a physical body for these processes to occur. But isn't your soul independent of your body?
RussianAssassin21 3 years ago
The end of my previous reply is assuming that only invisible things can occupy an invisible location; our physical bodies don't leave our grave site and travel to an invisible location. Must I go on, or do you see how ridiculous this all sounds?
RussianAssassin21 3 years ago
because athiests think fo ourselfs and dont follow the aspects of others, religious people belive purpose is thrust apon them, athiest get up in the morning and find out there own purpose, we explore, we think, we invent. and we are not misrable and in no way confused we rely on facts to find the truth stuff people have provon, not stories in a book that have no physical evidence to support it. im writing this cos im bored, you wrote your statment cos your upset, whos the misrible one?
heric910 3 years ago 2
I have examined my religion, I am a christian, with a firm belief that Christ died and rose again so that his blood may cover humanities sins.. but anyway. I think the logical thinking is intresting... What you consider logical really depends on societies standards, true? If it were accepted in society to kill people, then it would be logical. What stops people from doing that... society's influence. Now, whats the difference between "society's" logic and "religious" logic? Answer please
Rellik120 4 years ago
rellik120 response: society's logic is based on natural instinct, and religious logic is similar because it was invented by man while using his instinctive logic.
mlpayne89 4 years ago
natural instinct?so we have a natural instinct to come up with a God? hmm. intresting, ive always been told that God was created to keep people controlled. I've very rarely hear from someone who doesn't believe in a God, that man has looked towards a God for direction and a reason for living. Instinctive logic, animilistic logic are they different in your opinion?
why do men ( with instinctive logic ) look for a God, or something beyond the physical world? Why do we long for something more?
Rellik120 4 years ago
Rellik120, I don't long for 'something more'. That's a myth implanted in you by your church to control you and so that you keep paying them.
farvision 4 years ago
you may not long for something more, but why does that make everyone else who does ( even those not in church ;) ) look for something more, weak and, in mr. mlpayne's opinion, stupid? Is is so hard to believe that you may have to be accountable, wait no.. not accountable but that you may have been gracefully forgiven and you have a reason for being, I don't understand how it is easier for you to believe in NO afterlife... not even christianity, just afterlife itself?
Rellik120 4 years ago
you may not long for something more, but why does that make everyone else who does ( even those not in church ;) ) look for something more, weak and, in mr. mlpayne's opinion, stupid? Is is so hard to believe that you may have to be accountable, wait no.. not accountable but that you may have been gracefully forgiven and you have a reason for being, I don't understand how it is easier for you to believe in NO afterlife... not even christianity, just afterlife itself?
Rellik120 4 years ago
By instinctive logic i mean ("man kill") ("other men come to conclusion that killing will not get you or society anywhere") ("man invent god to control using logic")
And by "instinctive logic" i mean man is too stupid to comprehend death so god is the easiest answer to cope with. Because for some reason we are one of the only species that thinks we are suppose to be happy... in simplest words i cant think of .... GOD IS A REASON TO BE GOOD FOR NO REASON.
mlpayne89 4 years ago
You have no basis for morals. By what you believe Hitler did nothing wrong. I would not want to stand next to you. You would kill me if it would benefit you, and as long as you could get away with it. That my friend is something to be feared not God.
Rellik120 4 years ago
how can you say that i just proved how we do have morals...when i kill someone i feel terrible not because god wants me to , but because of millions of years of cause and effect and evolution have made it that way...and i do not believe in killing people my logic can determine what is fair. And by fair i mean treat people as i wanna be treated. if i killed someone i would feel terrible because i would think about if someone was hurting me and i didnt deserve it .OO and BTW HITLER was a CATHOLIC
mlpayne89 4 years ago
but what your saying is that evolution itself, and the law of cause and effect have created what we know as guilt and remorse? There is no other animal on this whole entire planet that feels bad for killing another. How can you say that? They've had millions and trillions of years to evolve too, why wouldn't they have emotion or remorse? I just don't understand payne... Why is it just humans over the tril. of years are the only ones to evolve to the point where we have emotions and ect.?
Rellik120 4 years ago
Rellik Our intelligence that we have evolved to has caused us to have these feelings true.You say that other animals wouldnt feel bad about killing another animal.Well is there any animal in the entire world that you can name thats as smart as a human. So im basically saying that the reason we have feelings and other animals dont is because we have evolved to have far more superior intelligence you cant prove animals have no guilt animals have better morals then humans they dont kill there own
mlpayne89 4 years ago
my friend male lions kill other lions young, gerbils eat their own young,there are many other examples of species killing their own. I will say this, if we are going with the evolution standard we are the only ones to become dangerous to this planet. So you believe animals may have some sort of guilt or moral system to their behavior? That seems a bit odd. and why out of all the other animals that came ( supposedly ) from that singled-celled org., are humans the one to be on top? Chance?
Rellik120 4 years ago
My cats exhibit shame, happiness and other emotions as do my friend's dogs.
Social animals need emotions.
People regularly kill other people, even kill their own young, although rarely to eat them I agree.
Your final point is just stupid "why out of all the other animals...are humans the one to be on top? Chance?.
If you have not yet worked out why this is stupid, go to your local school and ask to speak with a math or science teacher.
hilbert54 3 years ago
@hilbert54 dude, just stop, you're just making yourself look stupid.
Almay420 1 year ago
@Almay420
Did you squeak?
hilbert54 1 year ago
@hilbert54 Sure, I squeaked one on your face
Almay420 1 year ago
@Almay420
Are you sure, seems more like you shit your pants.
Perhaps you have a point to make or an opinion to express.
So far you have just made a mess.
hilbert54 1 year ago
@hilbert54 Well this is going nowhere fast, there was no point to begin with douchebag...Final message: You have the intellect of a retarded 12 year old and suck Jesus's cock or whatever kind of bizarre shit you believe in. There's my point bitch.
Almay420 1 year ago
@hilbert54 Oh, and what exactly and I suppose to make a point out of your nonsense? Your comment doesn't even have anything to do with his final point. Hes talking about defense mechanisms we use to make ourselves believe in god and that we have evolved enough to not need them. And you start commenting about your cat, emotions and then you ask a stupid question followed by an insult. WTF is that? If you really believe in god, do him a favor and never open your lil fucking pathetic mouth again.
Almay420 1 year ago
@Almay420
Lol, you fuckwit, I was replying to Rellik120, the comment immediately above miine. I am an atheist you dumb shit. You reply to a comment to someone else that is one year old and throw some random childish insult, with no idea what you are talking about.
Go read the comment above the one of mine that you ragged on and my comment might make some sort of sense.
Anyway you might take this as a lesson in how not to proceed.
hilbert54 1 year ago
wow.. Age?
TruLiberal 3 years ago
Rellik120: morals are apparently both socially built and from our genetics. Read about the evolution of altruism.
This was Francis Collin's big mistake.
farvision 4 years ago
If men use instinctive logic as animals do, ( i assume thats what you believe ) why do we look for a spiritual world, why do a lot of people believe in more than just the physical visible world? Is it hard to believe that we may have been given enough conceptual knowledge to aknowledge a God or a spiritual world beyond ours? Or do you really just believe it's a Man made ideal made for the weak?
Rellik120 4 years ago
you are right. I am mostly an atheist, but raised catholic. I find it hard to give up some of the ideas. For example, even though I am atheist, I still want an afterlife. I'm kinda in between atheist and agnostic. I know the god that we think of isn't real, but maybe something else is.
BernierCR42 4 years ago
Pretty depressing...honestly you made some good points though. Not sure bout the whole morality part cause pretty much some form of religion has existed for as long as we have records. Just because it's not a major religion and polytheism doesn't take away from the basic idea. There's really no way to prove this point.
BlueLuna5 4 years ago
for all you atheists you better hope GOD isnt real.Better to believe that GOD is real and find out hes not,than to not believe and find out he is real
watch3456 4 years ago
so it's better to fake your belief out of a sense of fear?? won't god see thru that bullshit act?
ChesterCopperpot80 4 years ago 2
You know, the fear tactics would actually work better if you actually used your god's name.
"YHWH" or "Capital L-O-R-D" = Christian god
"Allah" = Muslim god
"Zeus" = Greek god
"Athena" = Athens City State god.
"God" = American Deist Secular god.
God with the capital "G" the deist "god the gaps."
I won't even address the pascal wager, it has been refuted countless times.
adsententia 4 years ago
Isn't it rather pathetic to believe something out of paranoia? If there is a god (and I'm not saying there is), wouldn't he want people to believe what they see as truth instead of believing things purely for self-preservation?
wanderingivie 4 years ago
Shut up you ignorant moron.
Kujien 4 years ago
God is a delusion.
Todays god is but one of the many gods man has created throughtout the ages. This was man`s only way to live with the fear of the
unknown. Man`s creation gradually evolved into
today`s god.
maurieer 4 years ago
watch3456, DO NOT threaten me with your stupid Pascal's wager! (Either that or bow down to the FSM or he will strangle you next time you east spaghetti!)
farvision 4 years ago
This video has lots of good points..points i have been trying to get across for some time....people just ignore it because they know that the points are correct and it annoys them, so..like the whole 'ego' point...yeah, they will simply disregard it because they don't want to admit it!
AnAtheist 4 years ago
There is no point arguing over this video. It has only been viewed 1251 times so it is not some big deal. Very few people are actually looking at it, so we had better use our time and energy on another video that is getting more views. If you want to fight then pick them more wisely. Small skirmishes such as this are a waste of effort. This is just an opinion video; the author does not give any true scientific evidence he just makes assertions and tries to make them sound absolute.
setadragon 4 years ago
Life didn't begin on it's own. You say a bunch of bullshit like it's fact. Idiot, idiot, idiot.
braino2000 4 years ago
lol
From your post it is clear that
a) you seem to lack basic courtesy and communication skills (pretty common for an ignorant religious individual however)
b) Have no expertise regarding abiogenesis; and I also doubt that you have the congitive ability to actually lookup the research articles on the subject
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
and
c) You lack any sort of logical reasoning ability, as is clear from you proof by assertion fallacy
Also, your subscription to venomfangx reveals your clear bias as well as all of the above.
It is sad to see people like you who are so clearly blissfully and passionately ignorant.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
You have also probably clearly never done a careful study of Christianity/Judiasm, or it's roots. We don't believe these because of what you say, you are not an athority figure on the subject you discuss. And dont say "life has no purpose" as if it is fact. Your "social and evolutionary reasons" also have no evidence.
braino2000 4 years ago
"probably clearly" is redundant. There is every bit of evidence we need for evolution to be a fact. People just wish it was still just a hypothesis because it goes against what their god says. There really is, in fact, no debate about it.
mattb521 4 years ago
Actually, I subscribed to it because I saw ONE video. I've been trying to delete it.
Do prove to me that life began on its own too. It's almost mathematically impossible. Please do so without making up guesses of the past either.
And ego? Really sad. Atheists are the most ego driven people I have ever seen.
braino2000 4 years ago
okay. just say life began from a "creator" a hyper intelligent, omniscient know it all being. how can u possibly believe that this creator is concerned with primitive human thought, morals and his creations must adhere to them or else they burn. that to me is insane. and clearly man made fear mongering. u religous folk talk about "god" like he has the same social intelligence as us. if he created the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. why would he give 2 shits about our personal thoughts/actions...lol....
nogster7 4 years ago 2
Not to mention, if he were omniscient and omnipotent, he would know everything thats ever happened and will happen, so why would we need to pray to him? He already knows and has decided your fate. IDiots can't seem to grasp this.
mattb521 4 years ago 2
really good vid man..
spot on.
sadly, i am still driven by ego, i still have a "faith" of sorts in re-incarnation. or soul recycling. but thats just my own personal belief to satisfy the "ego" as u say. but i certainly dont believe in any religion, hell, devil, god, and the primitive man made laws that must be adhered to..religions are just socially accepted cults, and our evolution will eventually eradicate these archaic beliefs. its just a shame i wont be around by that time
nogster7 4 years ago
Thanks! :)
At least you understand that your "faith" is ego-driven; and even at that it doesn't sound as if it is a belief that you adhere to that strongly.
BTW - I completely agree that religions are just cults; an I do hope that they are on their way out...
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
.....hmmmmm
isaidtingtoyou 4 years ago
How do I know that this is the reality?. are you 100% sure that indeed there is no entities out there that live in another dimension where material presence is not needed just an intelligent awareness?. What would you say about the quantum science discoveries?.
jespriella 4 years ago
Your first few wild assertions ignore the burden of proof.
Are you 100% sure that you are really alive? Think about it (I rest my case).
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Hmm, I find it sad that people always assume that religious people are not logical thinkers and abandon science. I am currently a college student and the majority of my classes have been science, and I am make nothing but high Bs and As. I have chosen to embrace both sides. You see I look at science as a way to learn about the world God has created and find new ways of improving our lives.
setadragon 4 years ago
I know that religious people CAN be logical and scientific; the fact is that many religious people compartmentalize their illogical/delusional beliefs. This compartmentalization is how one can be quite logical with regards to all subjects EXCEPT for religion.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Does the fact that I am a Christian really make that big of a difference on the study of medicine or technology? Finding the origin of man really does not do any side any good. If you are looking to prove evolution then all you are doing is using the time that you could have used to create and learn something new that could better the human race. The same thing goes for religion; however, from my experience, study of religion—for the most part—is done on one's own free time.
setadragon 4 years ago
Actually, evolution is an accepted scientific theory that has MANY implications for the medical field. Understanding evolution helps us understand genetics, potential gene therapies, how to combat evoling bacteria (and changing viruses), etc.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
These are just some of the many applied fields that evolution plays a huge role in.
In fact, the mere fact that your religion is causing you to suggest that we abandon this valuable line of inquiry is more evidence that religion can and does HARM knowledge and progress.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I agree with GreenDragon23...technology and advancement without theory is dangerous...it ignores the implications of what we are doing. Being brought up in an environment that was both logical and scientific, I've learned to see science in a religious context. It helps that I was born Hindu...we believe that the individual soul is a part of the soul of the universe, the supreme being.
sakredfire 4 years ago
If you think of the universe as a closed system with a fraction that is self-aware, then there you have God. An individual, also a (somewhat) closed system of which a fraction (the CNS) is self-aware, makes up a component of the self-aware universe, which is omnipotent. Thus, I feel that the mission of humanity/sapient life is to become omnipotent and self-sustaining.
sakredfire 4 years ago
Unfortunately, the current thinking that religious people are not being logical is being ingrained into children by the current educational system. You can just look at all the attack using separation of church and state, where the secular point of view is then taught.
setadragon 4 years ago
That law was made by a predominantly Christian group, I'm sorry if you feel attacked by it but we couldn't teach religion in schools, that is a personal endeavor. We used too, but science stayed in school and realized it couldn't comment on religion because there are hundreds. It has little to do about escaping Christianity because it is just one of many that pulls at people saying 'believe in me, no believe in me!'
scienceminded 4 years ago
Again, scienceminded handled this one well.
BTW - believing in a particular religion is illogical - you are accepting an absurd hypothesis that not only lacks evidence, but has circumstancial evidence against it!
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Now even if you are raised in the Bible belt you can admit that the average person will spend more time in school than studying their religion or attending a religious service, which I admit is a good thing. It is a wonderful thing to learn and to logically working out problems is a good thing; however, science is changing all the time at one point it was widely accepted among the scientific community that the world was flat... Did that make it correct?
setadragon 4 years ago
Actually Pythagoras postulated a spherical earth in 300 or so B.C.E. while in later years the church which controlled most knowledge stated that the bible hinted at a flat earth. The suppression of knowledge conflicting with the bible continued until the crusades ended, then you get a heliocentric solar system and a round earth and it's near exact dimensions, which was actually already known to a Greek mathematician.
scienceminded 4 years ago
scienceminded hit this nail right on the head. I have nothing more to add at this point, except that, if anything, your argument is showing just how much harm religion has casued to our knowledge pool
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Next, let's look at the notion that religion is used to start wars. While this has been true, that religion has been used for the conquest of many civilizations, it is completely naive to believe that it was the only reason. For the most part wars are raged for a group of peoples gain, be it land, power, money, etc. Anyway, this is as far as I am going to take this, I need some sleep.
setadragon 4 years ago
I never said that there would be no wars without religion; but, as you admit yourself, religion helps to push for wars and justify them. If one is to reduce wars, then one must take away as many factors as one can that cause/influence wars.
There may be no perfect solution; but that does not mean that we should engage in a perfect solution fallacy and merely quit trying to prevent conflict.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
nice video
theprolist 4 years ago
Thanks. :)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
what a cool song, what band is this?
duly10 4 years ago
The song is "spreading the Disease" by Queensryche.
PS - Sorry that it took me so long to respond to you, I apologize for this delay.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
also, i accept science, evolution could definitly be possible. i accept i may be wrong in the end, if so, and i die, cease to exist it doesn't bother me, cause i already know i have nothing to lose. i choose to believe in God-Jesus, cause it works for me. if i had the facts that there is no God, you can bet yer ass, i'd be out screwing, doing lots of drugs, drinking, not giving a flying crap about anybody, cause there's no God. i am being honest.
Bodhichickva 4 years ago
Boddy,I have also studied varous religions & in my opinion, there is nothing wrong to have a religion. Religion is harmful to society when one follows blindly, especially to these religious fundamentalists, and want to kill everybody who is non-religious or who believe in another religion...like recently a welknown evangelist pledged support to a Republican candidate just because he can't stand the Moslim religion in Iraq. (cont)
ppplll000999 4 years ago
So the Christians will again die for their religion & the Moslims will die for theirs! When is this going to end? A thousand years of Crusades against the Moslims & vice versa is still not enough? However, I don not believe if you do not have a religion, you will behave badly. A person who has searched for knowledge for so long,will be wise enough to choose good because it is the right & noble thing to do.
ppplll000999 4 years ago
yes, i see what you are saying, i agree with that. i believe that the people who want to kill all who is non-religious, are socio-pathic in nature,they call themselves christian, but are still very evil inside themselves. religion spirituality isn't evil and bad in itself, its the people that do the evil. don't matter what religion. pisses me off too! lol
Bodhichickva 4 years ago
I appreciate your honesty, but it disturbs me how many people need an external motivator to be moral.
Also, when logically evalauting an argument (such as the existence of god), we start from a null hypothesis which states that the argument is untrue. We can only reject the null if we get evidence to support the argument.
For god, there is no such evidence.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
So, from a logical standpoint, engaging in a negative proof argument (e.g., believing something because it cannot be proven to be UNTRUE) is a fallacy.
Also, evolution is true. Some of the exact mechanisms and hostory is not yet filled in, but evolution is known to be so.
Anyways, I do appreciate your honesty, and I am glad that you have shared your views. :)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Thank you, if most people articulated these things as eloquently as you do we would live in a much better world.
scienceminded 4 years ago
i doubt youd do that if you knew there was no god, our morals arent bred into us through a bible or koran but through our own mental awareness and our own judgements. In the end though you do have something to lose, everything. U might waste your life sacrificing and following morals that arent your own. Is that really a negligiable loss? wasting your one moment in the sun that you will never get back and abandoning the chance to understand the universe when it conflicts with a belief
boorens18 4 years ago
i don't let my beliefs stop me from reading whatever i want, enjoying nature, dancing, playing guitar, watching movies. i follow the ten commandments, and giving up sex before marriage to me isn't a big deal looool! plus, i done enough partying in my lifetime to kill me, but i survived, the prodigal daughter has returned! looooool!
Bodhichickva 4 years ago
Yeah it's just that the people posting creationist work on YT often think without the bible you're a conniving evil animal, and they are lost without the bible themselves. Self control and morality is a survival instinct and I am glad it is, I love community and family like most people, I know the repercussions of my actions through experience and the knowledge of my ancestors if that is a valid analogy.
scienceminded 4 years ago
i am a christian, but i came back to Jesus more on a spiritual level than religious, on my own, i am a loner, i don't attend church. i have also in the past explored many different religions, i was into wicca for 6 years and my family accepted me even though they are christian. but, you do make great points! it is very true for alot of christians, but not all of us fit into that.
Bodhichickva 4 years ago
dude, considering well documented apostolic succession and well documented early church history, im pretty sure they did exist. also, when you claim that a mass number of people are lying to the populace, you should suply some peice of evidence, that's how we roll the american judicial system anyway. o but did the founding fathers actually exist? you tell me bud.
mattschol 4 years ago
First off, if we hypothetically assume that the apostles really did exist [I am not saying that they did or did not], there are MANY reasons to make/maintain a religion:
-1) The roman empire was oppressing them - religion is a great way to manipulate the masses and get assistance
-2) Religion is also a good source of income [and power]
etc.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Secondly, when ANYONE gets up and claims that there is a magical being named Jesus, and one called God, etc., they ARE lying to the masses.
There is no evidence for these myths; therefore, anyone who claims that there is is a liar.
It is as simple as that.
BTW - There are MANY MANY outside sources that support the existence of the founding fathers. As for the apostles, there is not much outside info to support it.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
dude have you read acts? the early church lived in community, they gave the vast majority of their cash to the poor. Also, the apostles all got killed(except john)(so they hardly had power)Also, what makes you so sure the bible was fabricated? just because someone COULD have lied doesn't mean they DID, how cynical can u get?(c..)
mattschol 4 years ago
and like i said earlier, the apostles had no motive at all to lie, so why would they lie about a "magical" Jesus. did Jesus deceive them, oops he died for it too! generally when you call someone a liar, you supply some kind of evidence to back up your accusation. anything? also, the apostles were hardly the first people to say there is one called God.
mattschol 4 years ago
First off, POLITICAL REVOLUTION AND DISPELLING AN OPPRESSIVE REGIME are powerful motivators to use religion on the gullible masses (that is just ONE of MANY possible reasons to lie; presupposing that the apostles even existed, which is not even supported by objective sources!!).
They had MANY potential reasons to lie/steal little pieces of old customs and pagan religions to make a new religion.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
SECONDLY, anthropoligcal and arcehological evidence DO NOT SUPPORT the bible, physics does not support the bible, fossil evidence/order of evolution do not support the bible, etc, etc, etc.
Honestly, the Norse mythology has just as much evidence to support it as your Christian mythology does (but the norse mythology at least contains some interesting stories).
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Also, there were MANY self-proclaimed 'sons of gods' running around doing 'miracles' at the same alleged time as your Jesus was.
That means that your particular brand of god, the one that your apostles alleged followed, holds no more credability than any of the others [gods].
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Your time line is way off man, Jesus and the apostles were all dead (and resurrected in Jesus' case) long before any political revolution ever occurred. How many objective sources do we have about fishermen in the first century man? "They had MANY potential reasons to lie/steal little pieces of old customs and pagan religions to make a new religion." Who are "they" in this case? (c...)
mattschol 4 years ago
Your SECONDLY point I assume refers to the creation of the earth in Genesis. 1. I don't believe the world was actually created in 7 days, God probly formed the earth over billions of years, but idk, maybe he created it 4 seconds ago. C...
mattschol 4 years ago
2. An all powerful creator of all, would not be bound by his own creation(anthropology, physics, etc.). Can God make a rock that even he cannot lift? And dang, have you even read the bible? Some bible stories are freakin sweet, maccabees is crazy stuff man check it out. Your last point is just terrible, look at it again and correct it yourself. Sleepy time for me, peace dude
mattschol 4 years ago
Firstly, the birth of the chrisitan mytos marked the begginning of an enormous political/social revolution - brush up on your history.
Also, xtianity is FOUNDED on principles/rituals taken from older pagan cultures - there is nothing truly new or unique about it.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Secondly, you are presupposing that your particular god even exists, and more to the point, you are presupposing that your god is responsible for the existence of the Earth.
These are wild assumptions on your part and are not based on ANY evidence at all... just some old campfire stories made up and propogated by nomadic desert people.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Also, omnipotentence (i.e. something being 'all powerful') is a self-contradicting concept. It would be quite impossible for an all-powerful being to exist: just look at the rock dilemma.
If it could make a rock that it could not lift, then it would not be all-powerful because it could not lift the rock.
However, if it could not make a rock that it could not lift, then it would not be all powerful because it would lack the ability to make said rock.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Also, while we are arguing purely philosopohical subjects: where did god come from?
This is a HUGE philosophical hole in the god concept.
Also, in my oponion, bible stories are pretty lame. The characters are one-dimensional, they do not act in consistent manners, etc.
Other mythologies are far better written than the Christian fairy tales.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
The Bible IS fabricated because it is stupid! A God should not be dumber than me for instance :) Take even the very 1st commandment: I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before me. This suggested there are more than one God existing and each one is competing for business(which contrardicts the the Bible itself) (cont..
ppplll000999 4 years ago
It strikes resemblance to to-day's evangelists: give me your money, not to the church down the street. IF THERE WERE ONE TRUE GOD, WHATEVER ONE ADORES WILL BE ACCREDITED TO THE SAME ONE NOT MATTER WHAT, isn't it. Bible is full of these stupid statements that it could only be written by man & sadly not even by a smart man LOL
ppplll000999 4 years ago
the first commandment refers to fake gods, people used to think there were many gods, God was simply telling the hebrews not to do idol worship. you say you're smart, but you qoute stuff w/o knowing jack about the context. obviously i don't think anyone aproves of today's for-profit evangelists, jut because people are using a belief system for their own gain doesn't mean the belief system is flawed, it means the con man is.
mattschol 4 years ago
I was expecting a lot of rubbish from this but i really thought it was good. Can't agree more (particuarly with the sections on taboo and egocentrism). Does nobody else think its silly to have the faith ur parents have rather than learn everything and critically assess all the facts and beliefs and go with whats logical?... however i think if it could suddenly be "proven" to everybody that god doesnt exist there would be anarchy. i think religion will slowly die out over hundreds of years.
sidewinder1116 4 years ago
Thanks!
I do find it silly that people adopt whatever they are raised into without question. The most absurd part is how convinced that can be that their's is the "one true faith", even though it just happended to be what they were born into.
I also agree that religion has to die slowly, or else the fundamentalists would become even more fundamental and the death kicks of religion could do some serious damage to society.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
your first statement is just straight up wrong, do you know how many ex-christians there are? also, although i was raised catholic and i am a practicing catholic, i did not blindly accept all teachings of the catholic church without question. for example, i am currently wondering about the logic behind holy days of obligation. so, im going to do a lil research about hdobs.
mattschol 4 years ago
You have even said it yourself: you were born and raised into the religion. The sociocultural influences that surrounded you since your birth have had an enormous impact on the development of your attitudes and beliefs, even if you are not conscious of this fact.
The main reason that so many people are leaving religions is these days is that it is becoming easier and easier to access information.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
And you were born and raised into secular society. Which is why you are an athiest. Are you trying to get at the "christians are brainwashed" idea? (*crosses fingers, say yes, say yes, say yes.)
mattschol 4 years ago
I was born and raised in the bible belt of American; which is FAR from a secualr society.
Please get your facts straight before you make any more foolish inferences or overgeneralizations.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
And yes, religious people are subtly brainwashed.
Think about ALL of the cultural thinking that goes on.
Why do Americans think that certain clothes is masculine and certain feminine?
Styles of walking? Jewelry?
Gender is just one example of a concept that is subtly culturally infused into people - religion works the same way.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
the bible belt of america isn't a secular society? give me a break dude, just because you go to church every christmas and easter doesn't mean you're a devout christian. since you don't like me making inferences(what's wrong with making inferences anyway?) why don't you describe your religious upbringing, and ill tell you why it's not brainwashing.
mattschol 4 years ago
The bible belt is NOT a secular society. In fact, religion seeps into almost everything - which, by definition, means that it is not secular!
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing inherently wrong with making inferences - inferential processes are fairly good heurisitcs; however, your inferences are proving to be consistently incorrect.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I didn't have a religious upbrining (another one of your incorrect inferences).
I was raised in a household that neither promoted, nor discourgaed, me from seeking out any religion.
As a child and a teen, I examined the beliefs of all of the various religions around me; I found it fascinating that so many people could so strongly accept these stories; I wondered if there was any truth behind them.
(c...)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
So I did a little research, and I came to the obvious conclusion that all religions are simply man-made.
As you can see, I may have been raised in a religious culture, but my family gave me unconditional, non-judgmental support that fostered my growth and enables to seek out all avenues of knowledge without fear or guilt.
I simply came to the obvious conclusion: religion = delusion.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
wow the apostles must have really sucked at making religions, they got themselves killed over it, why make something up that would get you killed? (this is obviously not conclusive evidence that christianity is true, but it's something to think over) you'll probably counter with, "they be crazy!!"
mattschol 4 years ago
I try not to be superstitious so I am not religious.
ukidding 4 years ago
Good path to walk. ;)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I do think religion is beginning its death throes though. It may take another one or two hundred years, but eventually religion (or at least the dogmatic belief variety of religion) will be a mere shadow of itself. Spirituality may live on in some form. But as we solve the problems of death, cure illnesses, grow organs, create new life, create artificial intelligence, and expand our knowledge ever onward, dogmatic religion will fall. Hopefully humanity survives religions death throes.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
I do hope that religion is in its death throes. Some evidence (increasing number of atheists/agnostics, etc.) suggests that this is so. On the other hand, Christian and Muslim fundamentalists procreate at an alarming rate, and brainwash their children into their delusion.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I also hope that it fades out without a truly violent death (however, religion has hisotrically chosen violence over the alternative).
Only time will tell...
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Well, it (religion) sure IS doing a lot of kicking and screaming lately. They're getting louder and more 'in your face'. This portends an internal knowledge amongst themselves that they are feeling more threatened than ever. But by what? Each other? Not so much. By scientific knowledge, progress, and advancement. They perceive that secularism and humanism are far more credible, and even they know in the back of their minds they have few legs left to stand on.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
In Ontario, John Tory, leader of the Conservative party, lobbied mainly by the Evangelist & Jewish community, promised to give government funding to religious schools if elected. Conservatives(equivalent to Republicans in US) was leading until the Canadians saw this funding as segregating Canadian people. Yesterday, He and his party has suffered the worst defeat in recent Ontario history, entirely due to this single issue. People are not as blind as they use to be.
ppplll000999 4 years ago
This news gives me hope. ;)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I would tend to agree with your assessment.
Let's just hope all their kicking and screaming doesn't bring down society any more than it has to. ;)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
procreate at an alarming rate? LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
omfg, thats awesome!
WtfJuju 4 years ago
It is interesting how religion has only served to hold humanity back in the last few centuries. It has been a huge source of conflict, and has stifled scientific progress that could help humanity. Perhaps had humanity given up its insistent beliefs in various commanding deities we would have been far more advanced today and have even discovered means by which to make life last much longer if not forever. Of course this would require expansion into the universe (where'd we probably be by now).
EmeraldView 4 years ago
Believe me, it is absolutely a WASTE OF TIME or breath for ANYBODY using scientific arguments in discussion with religious people. The logic is if they have a scientific mind, they will not become religious in the first place. Do you see the paradox ?
ppplll000999 4 years ago
I do indeed see the tragic paradox.
But, some people are (slightly) more logical of mind, but have been indoctrinated all their lives.
If we can free even one of these people from delusion, then it will be worth it.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Simply brilliant. You are being a bit (just a bit) harsh on religious people, though. After all, they have every right to beleive in whatever nonsense they want to beleive in. If they could only be more respectfull toward people who disagree with them...
In my country the word "atheist" is equivalent to "immoral" and "satanic", which is really a shame.
HunterLovell 4 years ago
It may seem a little harsh, but I take a 'tough love' approach when it comes to helping people deal with delusions (like religion).
I do agree with you on that point. I would have no problem with religion if it wasn't for the fact that it encourages people to treat others badly, remain ignorant, etc.
You are from Honduras? That is truly a shame [about atheist being synonomous with immoral].
I am glad that you enjoyed the video.
;)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Yes, Im from Honduras. I was bit freaked out there, for a while I had forgotten that I had that in my profile. But anyway, I would advise you to stay away from my country. Its a boiling pot of ignorance and discrimination, a land where mass lobotomy is the norm, and if you try to be any different you are considered a nuisance to society, unless you keep it a secret, of course.
HunterLovell 4 years ago
And the tourist attractions aint that good either.
HunterLovell 4 years ago
Alright, I will make a note of never going there. From your description is sounds pretty bad.
And yes, I did get your location from your profile. I don't have any secret spies or anything like that. ;)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
Marvellous.Never have I seen the truth about religion exposed more clearly.Congratulations
coel11 4 years ago
Thanks
:)
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
This is my final post to you, since, you have nothing relevant to share. You really are just a rambling ignorant fool that has no purpose, as you so elegantly expressed in your video. This applies to you, not for me, nor will your ridiculous fallacious claims suggest otherwise. That is the only thing I agree with you. Thanks for sharing that part. It explains YOUR EXISTENCE!!! HA! HA!
napaporn37 4 years ago
I find it amazing that the most scientifically-ignorant people (YOU) are also the first to use ad hominem attacks at the end of an argument.
Do your fallacies work on your friends?
You have clearly shown that your scientific understanding is AT LEAST 100 years behind the times.
Thanks for sharing your ignorance with the world.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I suggest in the future that you actually read and respond, instead of skirt the question. Look at your response, it is hilarious, you actually never even attempted to address my question. Thanks for playing. This was fun! If you actually want to inform people, I suggest try responding to their questions.
napaporn37 4 years ago
What 'question' did I not address?
Please enlighten me on what 'question' I avoided?
Or are you engaging in another proof by assertion?
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
It is a belief, period! But hey live in your "imaginary" existence and keep believing in something you can not prove. Thats right can not prove. If you can then we have something to talk about, but since you can not answer this question, I have nothing more to discuss with you.
napaporn37 4 years ago
By the most strict definition of prove, nothing can ever be proven.
You cannot prove that you exist!
Please read up on science a little.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
I believe you should read up on philosophy a little. Science isnt all there is and can only answer some questions....most of the time the ones that are the most unimportant,..God Bless
nomyturn 4 years ago
Actually, science answers the MOST important questions around.
Science has created computers, cars, medicine (which has saved countless lives), ETC, ETC.
For the most part, philosophical issues are unimportant or irrelevant (they do not affect everyday life).
Name ONE purely philosophical issue that is 'improtant.'
GreenDragon23 4 years ago
thats true and all, but science has also caused blindness or ignorance in people just as religion has by blocking out reality with television and so on. not to mention technology has also killed many people, just as religion, the problem is figuring out which is the lesser evil.
In your videos you constantly shoot down religion, making your videos bias. I myself am an atheist but I do not like seeing one sided arguments.
DJSkillz30 4 years ago
Religion divides people and anything that divides people is no good for society, especially nowadays the world is getting more global. Anything that unites people is in the right direction. The world would not have this much fighting if we do not have Christians fighting the Moslim like hell, in the name of their 'true god'.
ppplll000999 4 years ago
I agree with ppplll on this one - any system that sets up group dyanmics leads to conflict. Also, religion is a powerful force of destruction - it has the ability to brainwash people into thinking that they will be rewarded for blowing themselves up to kill women and children.
Technology and science, on the other hand, do not promote group dynamics or teach silly ideas. Also, technology has saved MANY lives - just look at the medical field.
Science beats stone-age beliefs any day.
GreenDragon23 4 years ago