You know, now that I think about it. The correct God would probably be more angry if you worshipped another GOd than nothing at all. Oh and, from the video the chat is too fuzzy, we need a link to a picture.
A pretty large obstacle to explain the fallacies of Pascal's wager to those who still succumb to it, is that it is just an appeal to emotion, namely fear. It is a threat of hellfire, or least being withheld to hell's alleged alternative, heaven, thinly veiled as a rational argument.
Those convinced by Pascal's wager don't really do so because of the logic behind it. They do so because they are convinced of its fearful threat, and attacking emotional pleas with logic just doesn't work.
@ChaseKittens I was actually convinced of it on logical, rather than emotional, grounds lol.
People are always saying there's no point in talking to theists about religion rationally because it's a matter of emotion and not reason and evidence, but I was talked out of my faith rationally, so I know for a fact that's not always true. You're probably mostly right, but there are people who will be convinced by this kind of thing. I know because I am one.
@TruthIsLife7 Which god should I devote myself to? I kinda like Apollo, would that do? Thor has a big hammer I admire, how about him? I love the Calligraphy of Arabic, maybe that Allah would work? But aren't all these inconsistent? Oh what to do??
Love it. No matter how many times I destroy Pascal's Wager (though in less detail than you, all I go into is that it could apply to Zeus or Zoroaster just as easily).
One of the best analyses of Pascal's Wager I have heard. Thanks. I agree that if the cosmos was designed it was not designed for us, in which case we are just star poop.
5 starred and favourited. Good work, but I agree with farvision. The fonts could have been larger. I tend to switch off annotations as I find them a distraction.
I watched it. He pretty much rephrased the original wager, replacing each god scenario with the word "worldview" (which I despise). You might as well call the "many gods objection" the "many worldviews objection". There are still equally likely, mutually exclusive "infinite suffering" scenarios. And I still say it's more likely that if any god exists, it's one that either doesn't care what we believe or wants us NOT to believe in the supernatural.
I don't see any reason to take any "infinite suffering" scenario seriously, anyway, since 1) I have no reason to suppose that consciousness is anything more than a biological process, especially since we can easily say that about the experience or minds of other species. and 2) That whether or not I will be subjected to such torture is not up to me, given the problem of free will.
Besides, knowing that good, hardworking, honest atheists are burning in hell because they remained unconvinced that an invisible sky-daddy was watching them would be its own kind of hell for me. I can't imagine that if any god exists, infinite torture is even possible. Such a god would necessarily be horrendously evil, and my say in the matter would be meaningless.
@GBart God is not evil.Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: nno that is tempted of evil is not Tempted of God.Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed man is drawn away by his own lust. who is the father of lusts?
@dougbear2004 thanks for staying on topic. So God isn't evil because someone said so in a book once? Great. What evidence does James present to demonstrate this, or that God even exists? Why should I believe him, or anyone else whose writing was included in the bible?
@GBart GOD IS NOT EVIL. HE IS GOD THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD BART. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. DEATH WAS NEVER APART OF GOD
'S PLAN BART. THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. THE WORKING OF OUR SINFUL FLESH IS RESULT OF OUR CURSE. CHRIST TOOK THAT PENALTY FOR US.
@GBart our flesh is the evidence. In order to understand the the Bible you must be saved. You are NOT a man of God bart. are you?2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. its not for your private interpretation, if you were saved you would understand the scriptures. there is only one way to understand them.
@dougbear2004 I used to be a Christian. I know exactly what you're saying. I really don't care about what you call the "scriptures". I've read them all.
@GBart no one is good.Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; we are all under sin. you think we are good. jews and gentiles all under sin.Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. You do not even understand the scriptures
@dougbear2004 I know nobody is perfect, I don't need the authors of the Bible to tell me that. Why would it matter whether or not I understand the scriptures? Why not the Koran or the Vedas or the Iliad or the Lord of the Rings?
@dougbear2004 How do you know that? You keep saying you believe it, but you haven't said why. And anyway, it doesn't matter, because there isn't even a god.
Yes, I have read the Quran. What I'm saying is how do you know the Quran isn't true but the Bible is? Is it possible the devil has tricked you into thinking Christianity is true?
I was a Christian for a long time, and I felt what you would call "the presence of the Lord". Then I realized that it was all pretend nonsense.
@GBart THE DEVIL TRICKS YOU INTO BELEIVING CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE! THE DEVIL IS A DECIEVER OF THE TRUTH HE LIKES TO LIE. HE DECIEVES YOU LIKE HE DECIEVED EVE. AND THE WORLD. gods you say you make gods out of anything. Remember the serpent in GENESIS. WHO DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?
@dougbear2004 All the capslock means that you really really really believe it. That means you must have some really really really good evidence. I would love to know what it is.
@GBart THE SERPENT WAS THE DEVIL.Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? THE SERPENT WAS TALKING TO THE WOMAN OK. WHO MADE THE SERPENT THE LORD GOD ! Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
the great dragon was cast out, THAT OLD SERPENT, CALLED THE DEVIL, AND SATAN,WHICH WHAT DECIEVES THE WORLD. NOT PEOPLE WHO STUDY GOD'S WORD. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. see GBART IT IS YOU WHO ARE WRONG YOUR PRIDE GETS IN THE WAY. STUDY TO SHOW YOUSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, WHAT DOES IT SAY RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.
@dougbear2004 yes, I used to think Christ was God, then I read the Bible, and I read some counter-apologetics and philosophy, and it was like finding out that Santa isn't real. You'd really have a lot of work to do if you wanted to make me believe in Santa OR Christ again. I disbelieve both for many of the same reasons.
@GBart 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; latter times the SPIRIT THE HOLY GHOST CHRISTIANS SHALL DEPART FROM FAITH GIVING INTO SEDUCING SPIRITS DEMONS AND DOCTRINES OD DEVILS MY FRIEND WE LIVE IN THOSE TIMES
@dougbear2004 yeah, the Muslims say that about their book too. So do the Hindus. NONE of you have demonstrated that your book has anything to do with any gods.
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- denies the son of GOD, DENIES HIS HIM BEING CRUCIFIED, the father of lies is the devil.
@GBart what i call scriptures lol. who died on the cross. not me you sure did not.? Believing in God is not discrimination. BEING A CHRISTIAN IS BEING FOLLOWER OF CHRIST!Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. MAN IS CORRUPT WITHOUT GOD LOL/ WHEN ARE YOU ALL UNBELIEVERS GOING TO LEARN.
@dougbear2004 Why do you keep quoting the Bible? What does that have to do with anything?
We will learn when you present some kind of evidence demonstrating that that's true. So far, it looks like that's completely untrue. Yes, some people are corrupt, but most people aren't, and most of the people who are also believe in God. But there is no god, so everyone should be corrupt, shouldn't they?
@GBart 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. the prophecy of scripture did not come by the will of man in the old time , came by holmen of God as they were moved by the Holy ghost the Spirit of God The Spirit of Truth. the will of man thinks will their carnal mind or fleshly mind.
@GBart Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
excellent video. Unfortunately many words are too blurry on youtube. You might consider redoing it with larger fonts. Check the result before committing a full video.
Well, this is complicated enough as it is. I'm being vague on purpose. Of course, "good" varies wildly depending on which God we're talking about, anyway. So an attempt to define "good" and "evil" would make this impossibly complicated, so I assumed the viewers would have their own ideas of what is good and bad already.
You know, now that I think about it. The correct God would probably be more angry if you worshipped another GOd than nothing at all. Oh and, from the video the chat is too fuzzy, we need a link to a picture.
11cookeaw1 3 months ago
You know, now that I think about it. The correct God would probably be more angry if you worshipped another GOd than nothing at all.
11cookeaw1 3 months ago
Blaise Pascal was a true genius. It's quite unfortunate he is mostly known due to his "wager" which he came up with as a joke among his sketches.
miskee11 9 months ago
@miskee11 Are you sure it was a joke? The reason I made this was because so many otherwise intelligent people tried using it on me.
GBart 9 months ago
@GBart Yes, I'm sure. By the way I recommend watching the video "Unsung Philosophers: Blaise Pascal". It's quite good!
miskee11 9 months ago
Ah, don't hate on Pascal. I think Blaise Pascal is a pretty cool guy. eh came up with Pascal's triangle and doesnt afraid of anything
theclinger 11 months ago
A pretty large obstacle to explain the fallacies of Pascal's wager to those who still succumb to it, is that it is just an appeal to emotion, namely fear. It is a threat of hellfire, or least being withheld to hell's alleged alternative, heaven, thinly veiled as a rational argument.
Those convinced by Pascal's wager don't really do so because of the logic behind it. They do so because they are convinced of its fearful threat, and attacking emotional pleas with logic just doesn't work.
ChaseKittens 1 year ago
@ChaseKittens I was actually convinced of it on logical, rather than emotional, grounds lol.
People are always saying there's no point in talking to theists about religion rationally because it's a matter of emotion and not reason and evidence, but I was talked out of my faith rationally, so I know for a fact that's not always true. You're probably mostly right, but there are people who will be convinced by this kind of thing. I know because I am one.
GBart 1 year ago
@TruthIsLife7 Which god should I devote myself to? I kinda like Apollo, would that do? Thor has a big hammer I admire, how about him? I love the Calligraphy of Arabic, maybe that Allah would work? But aren't all these inconsistent? Oh what to do??
farvision 1 year ago
Love it. No matter how many times I destroy Pascal's Wager (though in less detail than you, all I go into is that it could apply to Zeus or Zoroaster just as easily).
IslamSucksAss13 1 year ago
One of the best analyses of Pascal's Wager I have heard. Thanks. I agree that if the cosmos was designed it was not designed for us, in which case we are just star poop.
Kailoa36 2 years ago
5 starred and favourited. Good work, but I agree with farvision. The fonts could have been larger. I tend to switch off annotations as I find them a distraction.
630633 2 years ago
have you ever seen drsuessre14's 2 vids on Pascal's wager?
migkillertwo 2 years ago
nope.
GBart 2 years ago
I watched it. He pretty much rephrased the original wager, replacing each god scenario with the word "worldview" (which I despise). You might as well call the "many gods objection" the "many worldviews objection". There are still equally likely, mutually exclusive "infinite suffering" scenarios. And I still say it's more likely that if any god exists, it's one that either doesn't care what we believe or wants us NOT to believe in the supernatural.
GBart 2 years ago
I don't see any reason to take any "infinite suffering" scenario seriously, anyway, since 1) I have no reason to suppose that consciousness is anything more than a biological process, especially since we can easily say that about the experience or minds of other species. and 2) That whether or not I will be subjected to such torture is not up to me, given the problem of free will.
GBart 2 years ago
Besides, knowing that good, hardworking, honest atheists are burning in hell because they remained unconvinced that an invisible sky-daddy was watching them would be its own kind of hell for me. I can't imagine that if any god exists, infinite torture is even possible. Such a god would necessarily be horrendously evil, and my say in the matter would be meaningless.
GBart 2 years ago
@GBart God is not evil.Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: nno that is tempted of evil is not Tempted of God.Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed man is drawn away by his own lust. who is the father of lusts?
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 thanks for staying on topic. So God isn't evil because someone said so in a book once? Great. What evidence does James present to demonstrate this, or that God even exists? Why should I believe him, or anyone else whose writing was included in the bible?
GBart 10 months ago
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@GBart GOD IS NOT EVIL. HE IS GOD THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD BART. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. DEATH WAS NEVER APART OF GOD
'S PLAN BART. THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. THE WORKING OF OUR SINFUL FLESH IS RESULT OF OUR CURSE. CHRIST TOOK THAT PENALTY FOR US.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@GBart our flesh is the evidence. In order to understand the the Bible you must be saved. You are NOT a man of God bart. are you?2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. its not for your private interpretation, if you were saved you would understand the scriptures. there is only one way to understand them.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 I used to be a Christian. I know exactly what you're saying. I really don't care about what you call the "scriptures". I've read them all.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart no one is good.Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; we are all under sin. you think we are good. jews and gentiles all under sin.Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. You do not even understand the scriptures
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 I know nobody is perfect, I don't need the authors of the Bible to tell me that. Why would it matter whether or not I understand the scriptures? Why not the Koran or the Vedas or the Iliad or the Lord of the Rings?
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart the authors of the bible are not secular men, the koran is corrupt a doctrine of satan ever read it
the lord of the rings doctrine of devils
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 Why? How do you know that?
Well no shit the authors of the Bible weren't secular. That's like saying the people who wrote the McDonald's menu are in fast food.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart the devil uses people. God uses people think about it.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 How do you know you're not being tricked or seduced by the devil to believe Christianity is true? What if he has you deceived?
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart no i know the difference. ok the whole bible is based on christ. DID YOU KNOW CHRIST IS GOD!
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 How do you know that? You keep saying you believe it, but you haven't said why. And anyway, it doesn't matter, because there isn't even a god.
Yes, I have read the Quran. What I'm saying is how do you know the Quran isn't true but the Bible is? Is it possible the devil has tricked you into thinking Christianity is true?
I was a Christian for a long time, and I felt what you would call "the presence of the Lord". Then I realized that it was all pretend nonsense.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart THE DEVIL TRICKS YOU INTO BELEIVING CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE! THE DEVIL IS A DECIEVER OF THE TRUTH HE LIKES TO LIE. HE DECIEVES YOU LIKE HE DECIEVED EVE. AND THE WORLD. gods you say you make gods out of anything. Remember the serpent in GENESIS. WHO DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 All the capslock means that you really really really believe it. That means you must have some really really really good evidence. I would love to know what it is.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart THE SERPENT WAS THE DEVIL.Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? THE SERPENT WAS TALKING TO THE WOMAN OK. WHO MADE THE SERPENT THE LORD GOD ! Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the great dragon was cast out, THAT OLD SERPENT, CALLED THE DEVIL, AND SATAN,WHICH WHAT DECIEVES THE WORLD. NOT PEOPLE WHO STUDY GOD'S WORD. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. see GBART IT IS YOU WHO ARE WRONG YOUR PRIDE GETS IN THE WAY. STUDY TO SHOW YOUSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, WHAT DOES IT SAY RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004
Lol'd hard. Your a very good troll.
Oldspiceguyshorse 7 months ago
@dougbear2004 yes, I used to think Christ was God, then I read the Bible, and I read some counter-apologetics and philosophy, and it was like finding out that Santa isn't real. You'd really have a lot of work to do if you wanted to make me believe in Santa OR Christ again. I disbelieve both for many of the same reasons.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart WELL SANTA IS NOT THE TRUE GOD
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 OK, one last time. HOW do you know any of that is true?
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart THE WORD OF GOD IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. What happen when you became a christian?
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@GBart 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; latter times the SPIRIT THE HOLY GHOST CHRISTIANS SHALL DEPART FROM FAITH GIVING INTO SEDUCING SPIRITS DEMONS AND DOCTRINES OD DEVILS MY FRIEND WE LIVE IN THOSE TIMES
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 You keep quoting that book - why?
I told you I've read it. I understand it. You really don't need to tell me what it says. What you need to tell me is why I should care.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart why are you so defensive for its inspired by God.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 yeah, the Muslims say that about their book too. So do the Hindus. NONE of you have demonstrated that your book has anything to do with any gods.
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart ever read the quran. it lies about CHRIST
dougbear2004 10 months ago
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@GBart 004.157 THIS THE QURAN
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- denies the son of GOD, DENIES HIS HIM BEING CRUCIFIED, the father of lies is the devil.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@GBart people who kill are not of God, people who pray study his word seek salvation are of God.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@GBart what i call scriptures lol. who died on the cross. not me you sure did not.? Believing in God is not discrimination. BEING A CHRISTIAN IS BEING FOLLOWER OF CHRIST!Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. MAN IS CORRUPT WITHOUT GOD LOL/ WHEN ARE YOU ALL UNBELIEVERS GOING TO LEARN.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
@dougbear2004 Why do you keep quoting the Bible? What does that have to do with anything?
We will learn when you present some kind of evidence demonstrating that that's true. So far, it looks like that's completely untrue. Yes, some people are corrupt, but most people aren't, and most of the people who are also believe in God. But there is no god, so everyone should be corrupt, shouldn't they?
GBart 10 months ago
@GBart 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. the prophecy of scripture did not come by the will of man in the old time , came by holmen of God as they were moved by the Holy ghost the Spirit of God The Spirit of Truth. the will of man thinks will their carnal mind or fleshly mind.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GBart Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
dougbear2004 10 months ago
excellent video. Unfortunately many words are too blurry on youtube. You might consider redoing it with larger fonts. Check the result before committing a full video.
farvision 3 years ago
I added notations instead.
GBart 3 years ago
Ok, that's a little better. However at (for example) 1:58
the left red box is unreadable. so is the one on the right. I can barely read the material in white boxes.
farvision 3 years ago
Agree.
Buts still, define your terms, kiddo. What do you mean by "good"?
noeasymacforme 3 years ago
Well, this is complicated enough as it is. I'm being vague on purpose. Of course, "good" varies wildly depending on which God we're talking about, anyway. So an attempt to define "good" and "evil" would make this impossibly complicated, so I assumed the viewers would have their own ideas of what is good and bad already.
Lol, buts.
GBart 3 years ago