What would they have done if they'd been there? - Part 1

[lessingtom]

Somebody called this video slanderous.That to me is not only strange but very funny. In what way am I slandering people when I compare them very favourably with their own hero (Calvin)? John MacArthur himself said that Calvin is his alter ego. This is so typical of the Calvinists: They are quick to defend a murderer and his followers but don't care a hoot when they slander God and his Son by spreading the lie that He did not die for everyone. That's the worst kind of slander imaginable.

[Mcfirefly2]

God, speaking through Ezekiel: Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 33:11 KJV

[Mcfirefly2]

Calvin:

Scripture clearly proves...that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was _his pleasure_ to doom to destruction.

Those, therefore, whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he _is pleased to exclude them_ from the inheritance which he predestines to his children.

[Mcfirefly2]

Since Calvin was a persecutor and murderer, by the testimony of Jesus, he did not know Christ, so how could his philosophical scheme have any light from God in it?

[graftedgentile]

@Mcfirefly2 By your logic, how was David restored by God, after committing adultery and premeditated murder?

[Mcfirefly2]

How can Calvin's persecutions and murders be irrelevant to his supposed insights, since Jesus clearly states that those who put them to death do it "because they have not known the Father, nor me"?

[Mcfirefly2]

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that _whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service_.

And these things will they do unto you, _because they have not known the Father, nor me_.

John 16:2-3 KJV

[88momart]

John Calvin is not my hero...Jesus is; who died for His own.

[lessingtom]

@88momart

Calvin who spread the lie that Jesus died only for his own (the elect) is not your hero but you believe his lies? Its like saying: "I don't like Calvin but I like his lies." I have asked many Calvinists who the person was who said these words: "But I said, "I have labored in vain; I have spent my strength for nothing and vanity; yet surely my right is with the LORD, and my recompense with my God." (Isa 49:4). I'm not an Armenian, but please tell me, did Jesus die form them as well?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom If you do not believe God is the Potter, and we are His clay, then I guess you better rip these verses out of your bible;

John 15:16: Acts 13:48:Romans 9:15-16: Romans 9:22-24: Ephesians 1:4-5:

Ephesians 1:11: Philippians 1:29: 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5: 2 Thessalonians 2:13:

2 Timothy 1:9:

You are either a Jesuit trained crony at worst, are a Catholic stooge at best.

Only the feet kissing worshipers of the Pope come against the Word of the Truth like you are doing.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Of course God is the Potter and we're the clay but it still does not validate your belief in Calvinism's warped doctrines on salvation.

OK! I notice you've already sent me to hell because I'm not one of your kind. So let's just leave it at that. Bye bye.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom so I was right?? Your a Catholic?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom I see that you don't understand your own depravity. We are ALL sinners, and we are ALL deserving of death in hell already. God predestining whom He chooses was His Merciful and Gracious good pleasure, and the one's not chosen before the foundations of the world? God,in His Sovereignty passes by.

The angel of death in Egypt,? Remember all the little son's of the Egyptians?

This is a demonstration of Gods choosing some and not others.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

So, only some of the totally depraved creatures, excluding others such as I, will go to heaven because they believe they are the elect while the others, including me, are bound for hell because Jesus did not die for them on the cross. Is that the Gospel? No one goes to hell because they are totally depraved. They end up in hell because they have rejected Jesus and his cross (1 Cor. 1:18). I suggest that you repent and begin to believe the Gospel.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom I don't know if you are excluded or not.Are you excluded? Or are you covered by Christ's Righteousness? Jesus stated in John 15:16

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."And then He says, John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." It's implied there are those who don't hear His voice.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

God also chose Judas Iscariot to be one of his disciples. Was he saved? Washer says that no one is able to hear God's voice. Do you agree?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom No, Judas Iscariot was not saved...and you have made my point for me. God (Jesus) chose some vessels for Glory, and some He chose for dishonor.

And, if God chooses to speak audibly to a man then He will, but it's unnecessary because He has given us His Holy Word, and you either accept that word in full, or you reject it.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom No one goes to hell because they are totally depraved?!?.. Really? So as an Armenian, you think that there is some spark of goodness in man? Jesus says in Mark10:18 “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

Psalms14:3"They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one." Do you think you are good? If you do,then either God's a liar, or you are.1Jn1:10,Eph2:1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Stop labeling me an Armenian. Calvinists have this silly notion that when you're not a Calvinist you're an Armenian. Humbug!

I never said there is some spark of goodness in man that contributes to his salvation. I said: Unrepentant sinners go to hell because they reject Jesus and his cross. Don't put words in my mouth.

The verse you quoted is not the issue here. The issue is: Did Jesus die for the so-called elect only. I say NO! He died for everyone.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom The verses I quoted are the issue, because if Jesus died for everyone, then why are there people in hell? By your logic He would not be an all sufficient Savour.

Jesus came to seek and to save "that which was lost". You can't lose what was not yours to begin with.

[graftedgentile]

@graftedgentile Jesus was not dieing for those who He knew were not of His sheep fold. The Shepperd lays down His life for His sheep.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

That's not what Jesus said. He said: " . . . I lay down my life for THE sheep. (John 10:15). Who are THE sheep? "ALL we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of US ALL. [Isa 53:6]. Read your Bible instead of following your own insights.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom So, you think Christ died for those that go to hell? How does that work If He is an all sufficient Savour?Why would ANYBODY go to hell if He died for everybody?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

According to you, Jesus would have been a failure if He had to die for everyone, simply because most people are going to hell. In order to have a 100% success rate He died for the elect only because not a single elect person is going to hell. Once again I ask you, explain to me who said these words "Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. [Isa 49:4]

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Your presupposition that IF Christ died for everyone He would would have been a failure because most people are going to hell, stems form your ill-founded belief that Christ's cross saves you automatically, i.e. you don't need to believe in the blood of his cross PRIOR to salvation/IN ORDER to be saved. This false assumption completely nullifies 1 Cor 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Okay, right before John10:15 is John10:14, 14"I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me," So Jesus is implying that there are those who DO NOT know Him and are NOT His sheep. Pretty simple really. You should pray for understanding, because you have eye's but you cannot see. 

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Have you always been his sheep, even before the foundation of the earth? Do you really know Him?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Have you always been his sheep, even before the foundation of the earth? Do you really know Him?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Listen up: I'm as depraved and corrupt as you are and deserve to go to hell as much as you do. Got that? The only difference is this: You will go to heaven because your'e an elect and I will go to hell because I'm a non elect (an Armenian, according to you).

If you want to debate me, at least quote verses in their proper context.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

You're just being a very loyal Calvinist when you quote all the pet verses all Calvinists like to quote without a clue what they really mean. I asked 88momart whether he knows who was speaking in Isa 49:4. He hasn't answered me to date because he can't. In fact, not a single Calvinist, including the big guns like MacArthur, Washer, Driscoll, Sproul and Morey, have answered me yet because if they do they will have to abandon their doctrine on the sovereignty of God.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom We are saved not by anything we do. But by Gods Grace are we saved by Grace through faith, and that FAITH is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God lest any man should boast. This is most of the problem of mankind, it's pride. We as sinners want to say that it was because of something WE did,i.e.(came to Christ, believed, prayed..ect.) We would be left to die in our sin if not for God coming to us FIRST and giving us LIFE, because we are ALREADY DEAD in our sins.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Does God give the gift of faith to the elect only or to all people.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Yes, and here is scriptural proof. Acts13:48

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were APPOINTED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED."

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

The word "tasso" was wrongly translated in the corrupt Latin Vulgate, Geneva Bible and many others as "appointed" and "ordained." "Tasso" means to be well-disposed to something through an outside influence, in this case Paul's preaching of the Gospel. Whereas the Jews were ill-disposed to the Gospel the Gentiles were well-disposed; they believed the Gospel and were saved.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

What do YOU personally mean by "dead in sins?"

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom What is meant by dead in sins,by Gods Grace I only attempt to know what the bible says.That we all are spiritually dead, and are hateful enemies of God, despising Him,until His Holy Spirit quickens our dead spirit,we will not seek to please Him by the way of His Son Jesus Christ.We are fallen, not part of the way,but completely.It takes a loving God to rescue His broken creature. We have NO chance of contributing anything, we can't,we're dead.Only God can raise the dead

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Spiritual death does not equal physical death. A physically dead man (cadaver) cannot respond in faith to the Gospel but neither can it sin. How can God hold someone accountable when they cannot sin because they are as dead a cadaver?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

What do YOU personally mean by "dead in sins?"

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

What do YOU personally mean by "dead in sins?"

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

What do YOU personally mean by "dead in sins?"

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

What do YOU personally mean by "dead in sins?"

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Who says there were no Egyptians among the Israelites when the Exodus started? Explain to me the meaning of Romans 11:28: "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes" [Rom 11:28]. Is it possible to be an elect and simultaneously an enemy of the cross?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom The point is, that God chooses to do as He wills.Rom.9:13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” I'm sorry that you have difficulty with the Sovereign Will of God, and at one time it was a hard pill for me to swallow, but you either accept the bible or you reject it...there's no in between.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

God was not referring to the two individuals but the nations who came from their loins. Esau (the individual) never served his brother Jacob. Jesus commanded his disciples to hate their own families and brethren. (Luke 14:26). Does that mean God hates them as well, as much as He hated Esau? Or are there two kinds of God hatreds?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Again, you fly right past the point. Before either Jacob or Esau were born, befroe they did anything GOOD, or anything EVIL, God made His Sovereign decree. Your right, it had nothing to do wit h them as individuals. God is GOD, and He does what is His good pleasure. Will the pot say to the potter, why have you made me this way?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgen

Made him to reject Jesus and his cross? You must be kidding.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Listen, we all have rejected Jesus Christ. God the Holy Spirit is the one who quickens us, gives us life so that we can see Christ for who he really is.Take not of the thief on the cross, one moment he is cursing and mocking Jesus, and the next he is asking for forgiveness and that Jesus remember him in His Kingdom.So why all of the sudden did he change his mind?Simple, God opened his eye's that he might see.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

You said that man is dead in sin. How can a dead man ask for the forgiveness of his sins. Was he first regenerated and made alive before he was able to ask forgiveness of his sins?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Once again, some vessels were made for honor, and some for dishonor. So that the Power and Glory of God may be made manifest for all of creation to behold.This pattern is found from Genesis to Revelation.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Adam and Eve were made (created) first. Who was made for honor (Adam or Eve) and who was made for dishonor (Adam or Eve)?

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Rom9:14-17What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses,“I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Rom 9:14-17 does NOT mean that He has mercy on some and not others. God knew, even before the foundation of the earth, that Pharaoh would harden his own heart and would persist in his hardness. God eventually hardens the hearts of those who persist in the hardness of their own hearts and uses them for his own glory, as we've seen in the Exodus. You find the same principle in Ezekiel 38 where God is going to destroy the entire Russian army for his glory (Eze 38:23).

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom You contradict yourself..and you also expose that you believe what you choose to believe from the bible, and what you find repulsive, you refashion to your own god. If predestination and election are "an evil doctrine of man", then what are they doing in the bible? We are all guilty of idolatry at one time or another, me included. But that doesn't change the truth of Holy Scripture.

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

Answer me ONE question. Did Jesus die for everyone and if not why not?

[lessingtom]

@graftedgentile

"We are ALL sinners, and we are ALL deserving of death in hell already."

I agree wholeheartedly but do you know that only the elect are lost? Jesus said that He had come to seek and to save the lost. If the elect are the only ones that are saved, they must of necessity be the only ones that are lost.

[graftedgentile]

@lessingtom Yup!

[graftedgentile]

@graftedgentile I'm not a Calvinist by the way....but I do read the bible, and believe what it says....ALL of it. Not just what suites my sinful flesh.

[darizzle7]

The Only True Purpose is to know God and it is in His Son Jesus Christ any of us will ever find any true meaning or purpose at all. John 3:16-17 , John 14:6 (we must seek Christ and give up self !)and ~AMEN ~John 10:27-29

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand~~~~.

[sonoffalconqueen]

Great video, the freezing cold of Mount Everest especially!