BBC.The.Genius.of.Beethoven.1of3.The.Rebel - 3 of 7

[retardtothethirdprod]

One of his teachers was, ready?.... Antonio Salieri!

[violakeenan12]

Is it just me or would Beethoven himself not be playing piano?

[jmitterii2]

@WigsAndSwords1 What about the hand shake when Beethoven meets Hayden? Didn't they just do the bow thing?

[Sodhats]

The idea of having the "interviews" is lame as all fuck.

[Stevenup7004]

When Haydn asked Beethoven to put "Pupil of Haydn" on the work, he was trying to do him a favor, as publishers and the public would take more interest in a work that had the name of the most popular composer of the time on it.

[adrian50centy]

6:37 what piano trio is is?

[josephdolderer]

i do not like how haydn is portrayed here...make no doubt about it, when haydn spoke, young beethoven mustve nearly shit his paints. We are talking about a genius ON THE LEVEL of Beethoven, not just some teacher. And beethoven did dedicate his first piano sonatas to Joseph Haydn. And later in life beethveon make many remarks as to the "master". "Papa Haydn" as they call him is one of the fathers of classical music...

[6dragonslayer6]

9:14 , what sonata is it?

[adrian50centy]

@6dragonslayer6

sonata no 1 allegro

[CheekyVimto08]

i love that piano trio

[2009xellos]

"I've always counted myself amongst the greatest admirers of Mozart and shall remain so until my last breath" -L.V.Beethoven

[Fuliginosus]

David Lee Roth said that Beethoven's late string quartets were 'hackwork at best.'

[sstuddert]

In that case, I could say the same thing about David Lee Roth.

[javierleonenriquez]

Well i don´t know who David Lee Roth is, but he must be a musical idiot. I´ve listened to many of the last string quartets, specially the Grosse Fugue, and they´re master works. Do you think the fact that someone famous talked shit means shit is right?

[sstuddert]

You are right my friend, David Lee Roth is a rock vocalist whose musical intelligence and artistic merit probably only extends so far as a few chords - drawing interest in his "music" entirely from lyrics, which probably consist of boring, cliche' subject matter in any case.

[robertofnascimento]

How come they made such a douchebag out of Haydn?

[MGOBlood]

not to self dont piss off bethoveen LOL

[alilapointe1]

mozart refused to teach beethoven

[carusggg]

what could mozart teach beethoven ?

[javierleonenriquez]

the same as beethoven could have taught mozart. age and experience difference, asshole

[carusggg]

huh! Beethoven and mozart are incomparable. Just with the passion , determination and profoundness of Beethoven music achieved so high. Mozart music is good from technical point of view but lacks the power of spirit Beethoven's music have and also didn't made too much for artists in general ( and i don't speak about that superficial art you accept and name art as stupy things of cultured mans who think they need to understand it) but of real art where it comes directly from spirit or soul.

[carusggg]

and directly from it in the heart of listener even if he is sooo ignorant.

[javierleonenriquez]

that is because you haven´t heared the piano concertos from mozart. that is because you haven´t listened to the requiem. XD

[carusggg]

i listened it; good indeed but still don't reach Beethoven. Is indeed beautiful music but artist shouldn't strive to make beautiful things. However , even if the requeim is good and profound on some level it doesn't compare with the best of Beethoven's works ; of what piano concertos are you speaking ?

[javierleonenriquez]

The 23rd, adagio. from number 20, the allegro and the romance. well i mean, all of them! and all mozart´s music is full of humanity. He was romantic before beethoven!

[carusggg]

yea yea , humanity and optimism but the revolt and fire of Beethoven are more good (at least for me) and this because it shows more easily the spirit and the way of a life who was great even if it had so many obstacles and this... inspire me on one way at Beethoven.

[sstuddert]

Romantic before Beethoven? I think not. Just compare any Mozart work with a work as early as the Eroica symphony, let alone something like the Grosse Fugue.

[javierleonenriquez]

what i am trying to say is that you may like beethoven more than mozart. but that´s your personal opinion. they´re both great genious, and by those levels it´s not a good idea to make that kind of comparisons.

[sstuddert]

The Requiem is great but the Missa Solemnis is greater.

[sstuddert]

And, in any case, Beethoven's music was greater than Mozart's technicaly, especialy the intensely complex Late String Quartets.

[carusggg]

yeah but that doesn't have to much value , don't u consider that what it is of real value in music is what it reveals to us ?

[sstuddert]

But, you don't seem to understand, Beethoven's music was technicaly AND philisophocly greater than Mozart's. Just compare ANY of Mozart's works to works such as Beethoven's Third, Fifth and Ninth Symphonies, the Missa Solemnis, the Piano sonatas (particularly the Hammerklavier), the Diabelli Variations and, of course, the late quartets. The Philisophical and technical revelations in Beethoven's music clearly surpass that of Mozart's, being rivaled only by one other composer - J. S. Bach.

[2009xellos]

@sstuddert

I don't think you know a lot of Mozart, and shouldn't impose us to follow your conclusion. There's power, compassion in Mozart's works as well. We say this not because we like Mozart.

[sstuddert]

I'm not saying that there's no power in Mozart's music. If I were ignorant of Bethoven and Bach, then Mozart would be my idol. Mozart's music is very powerful, but it is foolish to suggest that it is more so expressive or technicaly complex than that of Beethoven.

[eddiemperor]

@sstuddert Music is not a sport, of course we have our own tastes, some prefer Brahms than either of, but is very difficult to compare Composers on who created the greatest Music, IMO Beethoven had the Best Symphonies, Mozart the Best Concertos, Bach had the greatest Organ music and his Preludes and Fugues are essential to all Music, but certainly none are better than each other :)

[sstuddert]

It is not difficult to compare the skill with which composers created music if you are not ignorant.

[eddiemperor]

@sstuddert NO and with all due respect IMO I think that has to do with the fact that they were three different Periods of Each Composer, Bach was Baroque, Mozart was Classical, Beethoven was Romantic, and that makes the Music different in a way, but not greater than the other.

[sstuddert]

First of all, Beethoven was not a romanticist, he was a classicist and he was a classicist until he died. Secondly, the idea that one can not compare the skill with which any number of composers created music simply because those composers existed in different periods of music history is invalid. For some strange reason, some people are totally incapable of comprehending the simple concept that style and skill are two entirely different things.

[sstuddert]

Style is subjective and therefore it can not be judged. However, the skill with which music is composed is something which can only be assessed from an objective view point. Bach composed music during the baroque era and Beethoven in the classical/romantic eras. However, one can still say that Bach was the greater contrapuntist and Beethoven the greater tonal architect.

[sstuddert]

Finally, if you have nothing of substance to say and decide that you will continue to oppose reason, please do not reply to this as you have been.

[sstuddert]

I'm sorry, I think I replied to the wrong person.

[javierleonenriquez]

The only refusal was mozart´s death

[alilapointe1]

there is no evidence they even met and any one who thinks that beethoven's music is better than mozart's has completly gone insane.

[gonkywonky]

Mozart acknowledged Beethoven, it was a brilliant moment in music history

[humpingbird]

They found an angry looking man to act as Beethoven?! 0_o?

[crappyname95]

beethoven was a very angry man

[eddiemperor]

Why they didn't show when he met Mozart? :(

[aicanson]

That is the exact question I'm asking myself when seeing this. His meeting with Mozart is definitely one of the most significant moments in Beethoven's life--and in the history of Western music. It should have been included in the document!

[eddiemperor]

Well some say he never actually met Mozart but beethoven himself wrote about meeting Mozart, he even writes on how nervous he was.

[mario54671]

He did meet Mozart, he played for Mozart and Mozart said Beethoven was going to "astonish the world".

[allthisfuss]

it was only brief, when Beethoven was 13. He was supposed to study with hin, but his father was sick, and then Mozart died. Beethovens time with Haydn was much more influential on him

[samastan]

True - there is a lot of Hadyn in his earlier works.

[CheekyVimto08]

@mario54671 isn't this just a story?

[mario54671]

@CheekyVimto08 No...he did meet Mozart, and impressed Mozart quite a bit. Now he may not have said EXACTLY what I said...but he still impressed him.

[polymath7]

@mario54671 What is your source for that quote? I don't have a primary source at hand myself, but the phrase I've most often encountered is the more tepid, "He will give the world something worth hearing".

Of course it depends partly on how one chooses to translate the original German.

[mario54671]

@polymath7 It's from a book called "Illustrated Book of Great Composers." (No, it's not a picture-book. :P)

[j0emax]

@mario54671 and he did

[2009xellos]

@eddiemperor not all scholars agree his meeting with Mozart actually happened. - he did admire and perform Mozart concertos during his lifetime.

[eddiemperor]

@2009xellos But I tought Beethoven Himself wrote it on his writings and claimed Himself he had met Mozart.

[ericwong1387]

@eddiemperor

There were no primary sources for the supposed meeting between Beethoven and Mozart - the story passed down to us from a biographer in the 19th century I believe. But Czerny does claim that Beethoven described what he remembered of Mozart's playing to him once. So I feel he most likely did meet Mozart or at least attended a performance. But the famous "he will give the world something to talk about" story is still unverified.

[IbanezNick75]

@eddiemperor yeah, that is a very important part.

[MisterAlbertoPiano]

@eddiemperor Maybe it's because is so uncertain he met Mozart that the BBC decided not to include that part of his life in the documentary.

[catgumart]

That isn't how it was...thats is how is filtered through an episode of Knotts Landing, or some Soap Opera.

[Joon930]

I agree. This is nothing more that a "The Tudors" version of an obviously rubbish filled, soap operatic presentation, seeking only to attract those who have little or no knowledge and appreciation for the arts especially the music that Beethoven created. This I say I say is plain rubbish.

[allthisfuss]

its way better than Immortal Beloved, or Copying Beethoven. atleast this version they didnt make up complete LIES and pass it off as artistic license

[Ramanujan88]

why does everyone speak with an ENGLISH accent???!?!?! No, just kidding. Awesome documentary.

[jackjiezhang]

it's a BBC dramatization ain't it?

[Ramanujan88]

yea, but if it was a PBS one, would they all have American accents?!? Anyway, i love German, but i was just kidding around! I like BBC's job on this. Don't get too many good Beethoven films around.