Ya i agree with rpdiesel175 this video is way more helpfull than most I'm also doing my first gearbox swap first one was cracked after 6 years of abouse lots of dry fireing (JG strong) only problem and normal O ring wear perfect gears ext but now its time for upgrades went from 6mm bushings to 7mm bearings for a stronger m120 spring metal hop up reenforced 7mm gearbox are theses good starts not lookin for speed right now just power and distance acuracy barrel will be next but have to get paid
Great video i have to shim a systema for the first time . All the videos start with setting the gears low it does make more since to start the way you said thanks for your knowledge.
I need a bushing with a thin flange, but I don't have any and I don't want to order a whole set...
If I were to use no shims on the top of the bevel, it makes a weird grindy sound. (I think because it's rubbing on the bushing?)
I also had to swap out the stock gears for an Element sector and JG spur. The stock gears had short shafts (lawl..), not enough room to shim them well. (even though the bushings are flush with the gearbox shell)
@Stealthmaster15 I had a few similar problems. But I have an updated version for this shimming method, stay tuned. With this method you could possibly end up with the bevel gear too high.
I sanded down the face off the bushing more, so I think I'll have enough room. The main problem I was having is that the bevel would be tilted when the motor cage was mounted. To be on the safe side, I closed gearbox shell and then mounted the motor cage (to be sure the cage wasn't sitting funny) and I noticed the bevel leans a bit.
I'll definitely wait though, I don't want to keep opening this thing up.
On the positive side, the spur and sector are shimmed beautifully :D
I noticed with my JG g36C (dream army metal bushings), the bevel doesn't have enough room to be shimmed properly. The top bevel gear bushing sticks out a bit more than the other bushings (it's installed correctly though). I believe with zero shims on top, the bevel still leans from the pinion gear pushing down on it.
I've tried like 4 different bevel gears. The bevel gear with the thinnest teeth still leans.
Any suggestions? I've tried sanding down the face of the bushing a bit.
My G36 is a dream to shim, i shimmed it perfectly (absolutely no play while spinning free, 100% tooth contact for all the gears) within no time. I have to buy metal bushings though, the shimjob loosens up due to the nylon bushings wearing out :(
Also, you should really have the motor submerged in water, it's not good to just leave it running without a way to keep it cool and a way to help prevent unnecessary amounts of arcing between the brushes and commutator.
Would you please explain more about breaking in the gears? Steel gears don't exactly shape shift to mesh better after simply running them in an empty gearbox for a couple 5 min periods. The only way I could see something like that work is if the gears are grinding against something (which it sounded like they were) and having them run constantly in the gearbox would gradually smooth out the surface that it is grinding against.
@Age1694 Hey, thanks for dropping by. First a few things I should probably put in the description. I now only really use this method to adjust the motor height, and instead use the port hole method to adjust the bevel gear height. Works much better. Also, about breaking in the gears. I picked that up from that one pageproducer file thta has been floating around for years. I'm not exactly sure to which degree they really are "work hardened", but I have noticed that after doing this, the gears run
a little bit smoother, and a little quieter. It may sound off, because it turns out the height of the bevel gear was a little off in this gb. So this video is left here for reference. Usually when the gearbox is shimmed right, the motor doesn't heat up very much, so arcing isn't a problem.
@Age1694 I ran them for a few minutes, and i could definitley tell the difference in the sound. They wear down very fast without grease and because they run so fast during break in, and that shapes them.
@Age1694 running the gearbox before complete assembly is used to evenly spread lubrication that has been re-applied, while there is no stress on the gearsw to minimize damage. otherwise it's also a fualt-finding exercise, if it's too noisy or not running smoothly then it's better to find out at this stage.
Great tutorial kalashnikob1, a big help to some people who are unsure about the shimming thing.
I'm not saying that your guide is wrong, in fact it is very correct, I'm just talking from my experience and findings.. I have done some shimming in my life and pushed some pretty extreme setups so I know what I'm talking about.. :D peace
@Maekiii Yes, I agree with you about the sector gear, and have seeny our DSG setup and your high speed single stroke setups :). Usually with a correct spec gearbox, when I start with the bevel gear, the sector gear ends up at the correct height anyways. But yes, it is definately something to look out for as well.
@kalashnikob1 Recently I started drilling a hole in the top and bottom of the gearbox and checking the height with the shell closed up and the motor installed, to visualize better how the bevel was meshing with the pinion, because I was growing paranoid in my shimming and shimming the bevel gear way too high with the open top shell method. I believe you replied to my comment about that on ASM. And yes sometimes off-spec gearboxes are very much a PITA, especially when the holes were drilled wrong
If the gearbox is in correct spec its not incorrect to shim the spur and sectorgears as low as possible. Depending on the gears and the shell, I usually shim the spur and sectorgear as low as possible. Then I adjust the bevel to mesh with the pinion. You want the sectorgear to be as low as possible so that it catches the piston as in the middle as possible to prevent pickup teeth failure and loss in efficiency due to the inbalance of load.
@Maekiii Some gearboxes which are way out of spec and take a LOT of shims (like deepfire) I have to shim the gears (spur and sector) perfectly in the middle to prevent premature bushing/bearing failure. Then I try to get the mesh right with the bevel and pinion. It can be a challenge with some shells.
@Maekiii Sometimes the spur and sector have to be shimmed higher if the bevel has to sit very high, the tooth surface contact does not need to be 100% between the spur and bevel, I'd say 70-80% is enough and always worked for me.
How long do you think ball bearing bushings will last with m120?
tfoshohoe 3 days ago
I have a ics split gearbox it isnt so easy
tfoshohoe 1 week ago
Ya i agree with rpdiesel175 this video is way more helpfull than most I'm also doing my first gearbox swap first one was cracked after 6 years of abouse lots of dry fireing (JG strong) only problem and normal O ring wear perfect gears ext but now its time for upgrades went from 6mm bushings to 7mm bearings for a stronger m120 spring metal hop up reenforced 7mm gearbox are theses good starts not lookin for speed right now just power and distance acuracy barrel will be next but have to get paid
BassRocker420 1 month ago
Great video i have to shim a systema for the first time . All the videos start with setting the gears low it does make more since to start the way you said thanks for your knowledge.
First time to break down a gearbox
rpdiesel75 2 months ago
TAYLORD98 yes
Colecjc360 2 months ago
Do modify gears have to be shimmed?
TAYLORD98 3 months ago
I hate shimming. I think I'll just buy modify gears,
Wabaanimkii 3 months ago
@Wabaanimkii lol
kalashnikob1 3 months ago
@kalashnikob1 bro my aeg a&k m4cqb is not firing anymore,i dont have broken gear,i tried the motor height adjustmend but didnt helped,help please?
GsxRaider 1 month ago
I need a bushing with a thin flange, but I don't have any and I don't want to order a whole set...
If I were to use no shims on the top of the bevel, it makes a weird grindy sound. (I think because it's rubbing on the bushing?)
I also had to swap out the stock gears for an Element sector and JG spur. The stock gears had short shafts (lawl..), not enough room to shim them well. (even though the bushings are flush with the gearbox shell)
Stealthmaster15 3 months ago
@Stealthmaster15 I had a few similar problems. But I have an updated version for this shimming method, stay tuned. With this method you could possibly end up with the bevel gear too high.
kalashnikob1 3 months ago
@kalashnikob1
I sanded down the face off the bushing more, so I think I'll have enough room. The main problem I was having is that the bevel would be tilted when the motor cage was mounted. To be on the safe side, I closed gearbox shell and then mounted the motor cage (to be sure the cage wasn't sitting funny) and I noticed the bevel leans a bit.
I'll definitely wait though, I don't want to keep opening this thing up.
On the positive side, the spur and sector are shimmed beautifully :D
Stealthmaster15 3 months ago
I noticed with my JG g36C (dream army metal bushings), the bevel doesn't have enough room to be shimmed properly. The top bevel gear bushing sticks out a bit more than the other bushings (it's installed correctly though). I believe with zero shims on top, the bevel still leans from the pinion gear pushing down on it.
I've tried like 4 different bevel gears. The bevel gear with the thinnest teeth still leans.
Any suggestions? I've tried sanding down the face of the bushing a bit.
Stealthmaster15 3 months ago
My G36 is a dream to shim, i shimmed it perfectly (absolutely no play while spinning free, 100% tooth contact for all the gears) within no time. I have to buy metal bushings though, the shimjob loosens up due to the nylon bushings wearing out :(
andromedarr 4 months ago
which side is the top of the bevel gear?
CrimsonHazmat 4 months ago
nice! corect shimming!
killer18bee 4 months ago
hey man! what is the name of te song in the intro?
:)
italiansniperkill 4 months ago
@italiansniperkill Mt Eden Dubstep-Sierra Leone
kalashnikob1 4 months ago 3
@kalashnikob1 thx for the repy man! :D
italiansniperkill 4 months ago
thanks for the vid! gonna do it to my G&P gear box when i get it.
kdash0213 4 months ago
Nice job man, good to see other people promoting the CORRECT way to shim a gearbox. BEVEL TO PINION O YEAH
Mikeandwendy74 5 months ago
Also, you should really have the motor submerged in water, it's not good to just leave it running without a way to keep it cool and a way to help prevent unnecessary amounts of arcing between the brushes and commutator.
Age1694 6 months ago
Would you please explain more about breaking in the gears? Steel gears don't exactly shape shift to mesh better after simply running them in an empty gearbox for a couple 5 min periods. The only way I could see something like that work is if the gears are grinding against something (which it sounded like they were) and having them run constantly in the gearbox would gradually smooth out the surface that it is grinding against.
Age1694 6 months ago
@Age1694 Hey, thanks for dropping by. First a few things I should probably put in the description. I now only really use this method to adjust the motor height, and instead use the port hole method to adjust the bevel gear height. Works much better. Also, about breaking in the gears. I picked that up from that one pageproducer file thta has been floating around for years. I'm not exactly sure to which degree they really are "work hardened", but I have noticed that after doing this, the gears run
kalashnikob1 6 months ago
a little bit smoother, and a little quieter. It may sound off, because it turns out the height of the bevel gear was a little off in this gb. So this video is left here for reference. Usually when the gearbox is shimmed right, the motor doesn't heat up very much, so arcing isn't a problem.
kalashnikob1 6 months ago
@Age1694 I ran them for a few minutes, and i could definitley tell the difference in the sound. They wear down very fast without grease and because they run so fast during break in, and that shapes them.
andromedarr 4 months ago
@Age1694 running the gearbox before complete assembly is used to evenly spread lubrication that has been re-applied, while there is no stress on the gearsw to minimize damage. otherwise it's also a fualt-finding exercise, if it's too noisy or not running smoothly then it's better to find out at this stage.
Great tutorial kalashnikob1, a big help to some people who are unsure about the shimming thing.
ARConFULLauto 3 months ago
Wait so how would i do this with a ver 2? would i have to put the entire MB back in the lower receiver and attach the motor and grip?
JahDropper 7 months ago
@JahDropper No just attach the grip and one half of the shell. There should be 2 screws on each side of the GB half and 4 total holes in the grip...
r2323r23 5 months ago
I'm not saying that your guide is wrong, in fact it is very correct, I'm just talking from my experience and findings.. I have done some shimming in my life and pushed some pretty extreme setups so I know what I'm talking about.. :D peace
Maekiii 7 months ago
@Maekiii Yes, I agree with you about the sector gear, and have seeny our DSG setup and your high speed single stroke setups :). Usually with a correct spec gearbox, when I start with the bevel gear, the sector gear ends up at the correct height anyways. But yes, it is definately something to look out for as well.
kalashnikob1 7 months ago
@kalashnikob1 Recently I started drilling a hole in the top and bottom of the gearbox and checking the height with the shell closed up and the motor installed, to visualize better how the bevel was meshing with the pinion, because I was growing paranoid in my shimming and shimming the bevel gear way too high with the open top shell method. I believe you replied to my comment about that on ASM. And yes sometimes off-spec gearboxes are very much a PITA, especially when the holes were drilled wrong
kalashnikob1 7 months ago
Its not all that exact science but with highspeed setups the sector-piston mesh is more imprortant than the bevel-spur.
Maekiii 7 months ago
If the gearbox is in correct spec its not incorrect to shim the spur and sectorgears as low as possible. Depending on the gears and the shell, I usually shim the spur and sectorgear as low as possible. Then I adjust the bevel to mesh with the pinion. You want the sectorgear to be as low as possible so that it catches the piston as in the middle as possible to prevent pickup teeth failure and loss in efficiency due to the inbalance of load.
Maekiii 7 months ago
@Maekiii Some gearboxes which are way out of spec and take a LOT of shims (like deepfire) I have to shim the gears (spur and sector) perfectly in the middle to prevent premature bushing/bearing failure. Then I try to get the mesh right with the bevel and pinion. It can be a challenge with some shells.
Maekiii 7 months ago
@Maekiii Sometimes the spur and sector have to be shimmed higher if the bevel has to sit very high, the tooth surface contact does not need to be 100% between the spur and bevel, I'd say 70-80% is enough and always worked for me.
Maekiii 7 months ago
good explaining, but what exactly are shims? are they just special washers that you put in to adjust your gears height?
Zhaobertino 9 months ago
nice..
estongt5 10 months ago
thanks, nice review to
tacticalairsoft65 10 months ago