Thanks for uploading this, made an impression on me.Although I am a born-again Christian, it really changed my life, Black inspired me even more. I couldn't help crying in some parts of this movie. In the end, White got Black in the "trick bag". You can't make a person choose God or choose life, it's a personal choice, but Black tried&did it with love and in an uplifting manner.The way I see it, it was only a test of Black's faith.White thought it was a test of his determination to kill himself.
If White were such a lost cause he'd have never agreed to come back to Black's apartment to talk with him. They listen to each others point-of-view but neither really indulges or concedes so an impasse is inevitable. Black is forthcoming about being a born again Christian but will not share the painful things in his life (ex-wives, worst crime). And If you want to talk down a suicidal person prepare to get down into Hell with them until you're both out. Black was simply not prepared to do that.
this story is about 1 man only. a man that has done some horrible things in the past and then found god. when he found god he also found education/knowledge. no matter what, he cant escape his past and his regrets. the more he learned the more he questioned. when he combined everything together god, his past, new found knowledge, he realized a ton of things. everything is out of his hands and as much as he wants to believe in god he is aware that there just might not be one.reading the news
I think that science is incapable of answering the impossible questions. What happened at the very beginning (before big bang, before dimensional membranes, etc.)? What is the purpose of having emotions? Does having emotions help us survive, no. In fact they are the greatest source of most of our mistakes, so what is the purpose, the point? Furthermore, if there was a God, why would he be responsible for all of the good and bad things that happen, don't we cause most of these things?
Just a different view but think about this, as intelligent as people are now they can still be fooled by illusionists. Do you think the same thing couldn't have been done over 2000 years ago when less than 1/4 of the world population was even literate?
@th9joker You are a fool. For you have chosen that you would rather be blind than see the truth. Because blindness is the only thing that allows you to keep your own happiness. But the truth is that none of this exists. Like ourselves, the stars must run out of fuel, until there is a great nothingness, and everything we have ever done is meaningless. Defend your delusions all you want, but when you are on your deathbed, there must your pride be crushed.
the film touches on the subject of suicidal nihilism. losing all pretention of an afterlife or grand design all motives are merely killing time until your expiration date. all mankinds greatest inventions and feats disappear into dirt in time so whats the point of being here? why be awakened with a self aware conciousness if only to die like a brainless animal?what u care about doesn't matter what value u in your existence means nothing when ur ded. wen the planet goes who cares bout ur achvmnts
What a worthless existence of hopeless self pity and subtle hatred for everyone else in the world. notice White never says that he's the cause of worlds the suffering, its always everyone elses fault and everyone elses problem, and he's getting out while he can. why not kill yourself? because you hate the happiness of everyone else and feel the voracious desire to make them as miserabel as yourself before you die. fortunately Blacks "faith" is empty already to be defeated in such a way, pathetic
The use the law of conservation of matter is wrong. Not sure what definition of life and consciousness you are using, but in the material world where all it is is matter and energy and there is no way to remove either from existence that does not mean the arrangement cannot be done away with. Consciousness is a function of the arrangement, just as the brain is damaged so is the consciousness.
the only things Black has to say are weak pat answers from people who have no idea what they believe or why. these pathetic grasping excuses for being happy every day. He doesn't even take responsibility for trying to help White, insisting he has no choice? what a set up for White "the wise but internally vacant and insistantly worthless" to take the upper hand be asserting control and offing himself. what does this film have say except that atheists all eventually want to kill themselves?
He by his own account knows nothing of the world except what is covered in a book that he doesn't even believe in. furthar more, he has studied nothing in it! he doesn't know what the bible says about anything. he can't come up with any defense to Whites hard-on for death, and can't see for the last twenty minutes of the exchange that White is holding onto CONTROL. He doesn't recognise that White thinks that with all that is out of control, he holds onto the control of his own actions.
this make perfect sense if it is not examined. the law of the conservation of matter would prohibit the composition of his life and conciousness however from ceasing to exist, however much he might desire them to. his design to escape, to find nothingness, and his posings as to the existence of god are philosophical masturbation.
Black was such a strawman. He was like a science student that knows what happens to a burned match but no incling as to why.
Consciousness is the state of being aware. If you're trying to say that our ability to be aware never goes away, that even after death we will still be fully conscious bodies of energy, then I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong. Our consciousness and ability to think and be self aware is derived from neurons firing off in your brain, in other words, physical components directing energy traffic. Without the physical component you have nothing but energy, no consciousness.
@atheistchaos Right, and every brain damaged person on the planet is evidence of this, change the brain and you change consciousness. Kill the brain, and you kill consciousness. Sucks, but I'd rather live in reality than live a life guided by false foundations.
In assuming that he can avoid everything by leaving, he assumes that the composition of life, upon exiting the human body repels like compositions, and likewise that the composition of consciousness repells like compositions. yet in assuming that he can find "the darkness" he expects that he will not know he is there, and that his status of having arrived in nothingness will neatly coincide with his status of not being around to arrive anywhere.
Science teaches us that there cannot be nothingness. There in lies the folly of Whites position; he makes his decisions based on the premise that since the world is evil, evil and pain are all he has to look forward to. he believes that in his own wisdom being a professor of darkness and a man without answers, that he alone can escape what everyone else must endure by will alone and that in spite of his lack of understanding as to the purpose or composition of life, that he can dodge a reckoning
White and black agree on this point, that God wants us to continue forever in community. Black's response is to "turn up his collar against the wind" and continue on, but white doesn't have the courage for the journey. White only sees an eternity of pain with no end or meaning, the only rational response is to end the pain, "unravel the universe". I have also felt like that all my life, but I came to see that courage, even to the absurd limit of human dreams, is better than seeking out nothingn
White is basically me except white and with a College education/vocabulary. He articulates so many of my feelings so well. I don't agree with absolutely everything, but the majority and the important parts are what I agree with.
@Bagelboy615 "since the industrial revolution....we're too rushed to consider God's existence." We have more leisure time than ever to consider god's existence and in fact I do consider god's existence a lot. So far I've found no reason to believe he does (no good reason from the perspective of finding truth). I'm more interested in finding out why other people believe though and it seems it boils down to faith for most, which isn't any measure of truth. Faith allows for anything, truth does not
@kevinscales The label of "God" being a single entity, I don't believe may exist either. However, the origin of religion is most likely some ancient ritual or story that became so intermingled and jumbled up that everyone decided to tell the story differently until someone wrote down their views in a collection of books.
However, have you denounced the belief in extra-terrestrials existing?
They may very well be our "Gods." It's definitely a possibility.
@Bagelboy615 Many things are possible. The truth is, all that we really know is that we know nothing. The possibility of an existence beyond our understanding is exactly that. Regardless of the truth; be it a single entity as suggested, aliens or other... one can only guess. Much like the concept of people once believing the world to be flat, a belief system is based on experience and what is presented to us. The possibilities of any explanation is equally sound, the issue will never be settled.
@Bagelboy615 The origin of religion I think can be explained just by looking at how people think and how societies/culture works. As for aliens as gods, I think it's a fascinating idea, makes for good science fiction but despite the fact that I believe intelligent alien life most likely exists out there, the chances that they would be near enough to us to have any interaction is far too improbable.
@kevinscales I was using Mircea Eliade's and Nietzsche's theories of the origin of religion.
As for the aliens being Gods, they've already covered that in a few adverse, yet obscure novels and articles. I believe they may have the power / resources to come to Earth, but don't wish to interfere with us since we are a violent species deep down.
@compactdisk2 It isn't necessarily the idea of people believing in God that's ridiculous. It's the STORY of God as it's told in the Bible. Talking snakes and bushes, people living to be 600 years old--yet in a modern world with internet capability, carbon dating methods and gene mapping, people still cling to what they know isn't even physically realistic. Even as a metaphor it fails in its moral logic.
@compactdisk2 I believe this film is more than God vs No God. To me, this is a film about seeking truth and meaning in our lives. And the fear that many people have to honestly search for what that is. To say that that search is ultimately predicated on whether one confirms or denies the existence of God is, in my opinion, oversimplifying the issue. The reason you get up in the morning. Where you want to go and who you want to be and why. That's what these men were talking about. just imo
@TLeeFilms I agree with this statement, but I think McCarthy was less concerned with the audiences interpretation and more concerned with creating pathos for Jackson's character. Black's entire motivation behind saving White was mainly for HIMSELF. If he brings a man to God, he validates his own quest for meaning (which you mention). Because he fails to save White, it creates a dramatic irony whereby HE becomes the tragic figure in the story, rather than White who attempted the suicide.
If you stop arguing and act outside of the internet, maybe something will change. Don't prove the other side wrong by yelling your opinions, that isn't what this movie is about. It is about choosing what you believe in and not letting a troll change it. Nothing is Black and White.
There is no God. There is no good and evil. There is only chaos and order. A chaos so deeply complex that it has no choice but to self organize it's self. You are not special. Deal with it and get on just being what you feel you must be. Death is just another nap.
This is what I hate about this sort of discussion: people who have strong viewpoints and have it poorly thought out. Cormac McCarthy was a genius to present both points well thought out and to have his signature ending without an ending. People who post on topics like this need to remember that insulting other people will never bring them to your side; insulting will never make them think like you do. Instead, the anger will provoke hostility and drive the conversation far from the top at hand.
@Bagelboy615 it's an endless cycle all coming down to how someone deals with reality. People deal with reality how ever they have to in order stay in existence, and why in the hell does it make you giggle? Because your purely fictional book has told you a good story after it was edited by the dozens of power hungry romans looking keep the empire together by taking part in the growing fad of christianity. not to mention the worlds existence 60000 miliion years before humanity.
It's as if there's a symbolic representation being played out between black and white, between arc angels and demon spawn. Its as if God and the Devil are there in that room watching over, playing there respective parts. The RAW power of this movie is enthralling.
Good movie, very deep. Don't know who i side with. As a atheist i lean twords white, yet bounce to black. The world as cruel and heartless as it is, can't be a product of a benevolent god. Hell, probably isn't the product of a god at all.Yet I don't share whites nihilistic view of the world, I think the lack of a after life, makes our days on earth few and precious, something to cherish. A comfortable fantasy vs. a harsh reality, It all really depends on what you make of it.
The sad part is it is true, the truth is the scariest part. If their was a god none of the horrible things illness on the innocent, drugs, temptations, murders or war would happen because such a great god would not let this happen or make us suffer, If their was a god then he is not a good one or not powerful enough to stop the evil because this world has become a sick place and no one who created it would have let it go on with such evil unless they dont exist. So the truth is in this movie.
@seamonkeymahem Read the Bible, dumbass. God doesn't just let this evil happen. He makes it happen! God is sovereign over all things. The wrath of God is currently pouring down on this sick world because they have forgotten God.
You have silly misconceptions because you listen to false prophets who talk about how God loves everyone. If you would crack a page of the Bible, you would know about how God punishes disobedient rebels. OBEY
@einsatzdeath Shut the fuck up! Who are you to tell other people to "OBEY"? The bible is a bunch of fictional bullshit!
There's a billion people starving on this planet right now, are they all disobediant rebels? How about millions of children dying of thirst, hunger and AIDS in Africa. All those people praying for help and nothing happens.
You're a sick motherfucker, people are not suffering because of punishment but because of human inaction and incompetence. Take your fatalism elsewhere!
@seamonkeymahem you're not thinking about this nearly abstractly enough.
What is pain?
What is suffering?
We could all be sims, in a cosmic video game.
If our "god" were especially compassionate, he'd preserve our patterns after the simulation, and we'd all take a bow for our performances, and have a good chuckle about our "lives" that we lived, and all of our pain and suffering, while it wouldn't be trivialized, it wouldn't weigh us down.
@seamonkeymahem God is not causing the suffering, PEOPLE are the cause of all the suffering. God gave us free will to either make or break our planet and we have apparently chosen to break it. PEOPLE stand idle while the innocent get sick and die, PEOPLE make and distribute drugs, PEOPLE murder, and PEOPLE declare and fight in wars. Self-accountability is the cost of Freedom, and if we truly want it don't blame God for all the suffering cause it is only our-self's.
@premolatino The problem isn't the initial cause of the evil. It's unambiguous that humans are responsible for all of our wrong doing. I'd like to know why God won't reveal himself, if he'd simply make it clear that he did exist, then there wouldn't be the billions of people we see today going to Hell for simply not choosing the correct set of propositions.
@bizzyb1999 Well, the people in the world who do believe in God in one form or another out number the people who don't, so whether or not God reveals himself in the physical is irrelevant. What you seem to be suggesting is that people need to fear God more than to know for a fact that HE (for lack of a more familiar pronoun) exist. Which kind of implies you already believe God exist, you just resent him for not revealing himself.
@premolatino I was alluding to the Christian God in particular, individuals may believe in a certain God, but if you don't accept Jesus as your lord and savior then you will of course burn eternally. No, I directly said that it needs to be clear that God exists, rather than leaving billions upon billions of people going to Hell for simply not choosing the correct set of propositions in their life time. Why wouldn't he just employ his omniscience so that he could distinguish certain cases?
@bizzyb1999 I'm pretty sure he does just that, you simply have to die first. How do you expect God to to look and/or sound anyway? No matter what anthropomorphic form God chooses the people he looks like most will just use that to kill everyone else, and enter Jesus. Consider that the Hebrew God is the Christian God, and Jews don't believe in Jesus. Logic alone will tell you that you didn't go straight to hell just for being born B.C. Try "watch?v=tQBX7Uy6Sjk" if you really want to know.
@premolatino Isn't the whole point to repent before you face judgement? I have no expectation for the appearance of God, I simply expect that he make his existence unambiguous, as should anyone. However, it's abundantly clear at this point that if God does exist he's gone out of his way to make his existence an easily debatable, easily questionable concept.
@bizzyb1999 Well, as written in the books of Enoch (omitted), judgement is not solely for each individual person upon entering the pearly gates of Heaven. After you die, if you are lucky enough to go to Heaven, you sit and wait an eternity until judgement day -- and on that day you may be permitted to enter Heaven, but before then you only get to sit outside the gates.
God's existence is as debatable as the existence of the multiverse. The argument will only continue to go in circles.
@premolatino You are so wrong, what I hate the most about Christian groups is not the fact that they believe in god, it's that they don't consider there's wayyy more religions than christians. Why would your beliefs be better than the others? Because you read a book? What if you were born a muslism?
@CrashLemon First off calm down, I'm not even a Christian so you have no idea what I believe. Second Yeah, I do know how to read, I've read Christian scripture so I can interpret it doesn't mean I'm selling it. Third, just because you hate Christians and their doctrine does not mean there is no God. You wrote it yourself, there are other religions, and even if they're all wrong it doesn't disprove the possible existence of a God ( for lack of a better term ).
Just as even if all accounts of unicorns are wrong, it doesn't disprove the possible existence of a god. Same with dragons, a mythological creature known world wide.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If you want to say god exist, you have to provide proof, just as if you claim unicorns exist you have to provide the proof (not the other way around).
@atheistchaos I don't disagree, except for the fact that I don't care if you ever believe in a God. So there's no burden on me, like I already said "I'm not selling it", you're entitled to believe what you want. Although I'm sure you would like me to condemn you for not believing, that way you can justify all this anger you have for the so called "faithful". God doesn't condemn people either, and I don't give a fuck what the bible says to the contrary.
Have you ever heard of projection? I never said anything that would hint at me being angry, which makes me think you probably have some fundamental problem with atheist that drives you up a wall.
In any case, it's irrelevant whether you you care or not about me, it's your argument, your weight in the conversation. If you don't provide proof for your claims, why should I even listen to them? I wouldn't, nor would I expect anyone else to do more than dismiss them.
@atheistchaos "Projection" funny you bring that up, cause your responding to a comment that wasn't even directed at you initially, implying that my possible anger is directed at all atheist instead of just you, all the while saying that anyone would dismiss an argument I'm not making (to which you're clearly not dismissing) to people I wasn't even talking to instead of just you. Stop asking me for proof, you're arguing with yourself at this point.
@seamonkeymahem i can see where you are coming from, but things like war and murder for example people do to each other, obviously you could say God created those people, but god also created the nice, kind ,caring people we see in our daily lives.
@seamonkeymahem i can see where you are coming from, but things like war and murder for example people do to each other, obviously you could say God created those people, but god also created the nice, kind ,caring people we see in our daily lives.
I love everyones opinion on it because in a way it shows what everyone values, ie the point in the movie. What is true to me is not always true for the next man
I would posit that the power in this story is in how different people see it in different ways. As an atheist I read the continuing battle between religious and secular realms. Religion drives some of the best and worst in us. Rationality is consoling to the rational but not if they are empathetic to the sufferings of others. Sharing misery while knowing there is no hope is a heavy cross to bear. If the professor didn't have anyone left I almost understand how he is ready to not exist.
@TheEmpiricalTruth I thought it was interesting that the professor mocked the idea of eternal life but at the same time much of his feeling and belief about the world centered around the idea of futility and that life has no meaning almost precisely because every road ends in death. If he gave himself over to the idea (true or not) he would probably not see the world in such terms anymore. Dostoevsky was probably the best writer at capturing the mindset of someone like the professor.
Here's an idea, white wins because white wants to die and be erased from existence. No body, no mind, no thought.
Black wants heaven, with his conscience and body restored.
Black wants, White doesn't.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if you go through life expecting things all the time, you're going to be disappointed and sad, but if you go through life not wanting or expecting anything more than what you yourself create, then when something positive does happen its all the better.
@ez1337ze To expect means to hope. Disappointment and futility kill hope. The less you expect, the less you hope. It's impossible to define how much or what to expect. Let alone prescribing a safe dosage or kind.
White has lost hope and is not expecting anything. He simply acknowledges life's futility and shares his thoughts with Black. Black is rendered speechless by the truth. It's the best dialog I've ever seen.
I don't want to put any blame on anyone as my friend downloaded this movie off torrentz... but I am certain after watching this movie it led to his Sunset Limited. He had been depressed for a number of years and I think this made him realize that what he believed was true...The world is a fucked up place whether or not you believe in God
@Bagelboy615 my friend ended his life after watching this movie... it was a week later... but it probably just sealed his beliefs and whether or not you believe in god the world is a fucked up place.
i wish i knew what the ending was suppose to symbolize. is black going to end up like white because of what transpired? is he going to end up insane? or is he asking us the audience if its " o. k." as a question for us to ponder about our lives or some crazy shit like that? what ever the conclusion is seems bad for black and i feel bad for him :( however i do really like this movie.
@hellfiremurf Really? not at all. For all his exploration of nihilist and existentialism, I don't think McCarthy is saying that at all. These guys represent poles in existence, life and death, faith and belief vs. unbelief, love vs. rage. Dostoevsky wrote about nihilists like this, read some of his books. I'd say that only if a man is willing to let go of his hate or anger at the world or his brother can he save himself.
@knuckshad You have to remember, Black didn't give up his faith, he was sad and upset that he couldn't save the Professor from himself, even though he thought he was on that platform to save him. There's also the question as to whether the Professor DID die, because how would a man not see a large, bald man like Black when doing this in the first place? Perhaps Black is a soul sent to talk to White's spirit, and it's not about saving his life but his soul. The sunrise at the end is good.
Wow I feel like Samuel L started to question his faith at the end. I think this movie wanted people to think TLJ's viewpoint of the world is the light. Maybe the sun rising at the end represents a "lightbulb" going off in Samuel's head. What if Samuel L was the one that needed help and not Tommy Lee? Whatever the case...Good movie...I'm glad i watched it
Thanks for uploading this, made an impression on me.Although I am a born-again Christian, it really changed my life, Black inspired me even more. I couldn't help crying in some parts of this movie. In the end, White got Black in the "trick bag". You can't make a person choose God or choose life, it's a personal choice, but Black tried&did it with love and in an uplifting manner.The way I see it, it was only a test of Black's faith.White thought it was a test of his determination to kill himself.
misfit2380 2 weeks ago
If White were such a lost cause he'd have never agreed to come back to Black's apartment to talk with him. They listen to each others point-of-view but neither really indulges or concedes so an impasse is inevitable. Black is forthcoming about being a born again Christian but will not share the painful things in his life (ex-wives, worst crime). And If you want to talk down a suicidal person prepare to get down into Hell with them until you're both out. Black was simply not prepared to do that.
SkeletonMurderer 1 month ago
By far not the best arguments I've heard for either case, but it makes for a great story nonetheless.
GJVChristian 1 month ago
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premolatino 2 months ago
Thanx for posting this! Your tags are hilarious! :)
TheCoolestGeekEver 2 months ago
this story is about 1 man only. a man that has done some horrible things in the past and then found god. when he found god he also found education/knowledge. no matter what, he cant escape his past and his regrets. the more he learned the more he questioned. when he combined everything together god, his past, new found knowledge, he realized a ton of things. everything is out of his hands and as much as he wants to believe in god he is aware that there just might not be one.reading the news
SuperDeadhope 2 months ago
I think that science is incapable of answering the impossible questions. What happened at the very beginning (before big bang, before dimensional membranes, etc.)? What is the purpose of having emotions? Does having emotions help us survive, no. In fact they are the greatest source of most of our mistakes, so what is the purpose, the point? Furthermore, if there was a God, why would he be responsible for all of the good and bad things that happen, don't we cause most of these things?
amgr34umr 3 months ago
It would had been dope if through the window we saw White coming down lmaol
sbigmike84 4 months ago
Just a different view but think about this, as intelligent as people are now they can still be fooled by illusionists. Do you think the same thing couldn't have been done over 2000 years ago when less than 1/4 of the world population was even literate?
slimwon 4 months ago
Ok,I agree with the suicidal character ! Should I be worried about that ?!?
Lovelydarkeyes 4 months ago
* No I Am Not Shitting You * LOL
IAmAlbertWesker747 4 months ago
u know he aint mean them words xD
rbcrazyriderrb 5 months ago
@th9joker You are a fool. For you have chosen that you would rather be blind than see the truth. Because blindness is the only thing that allows you to keep your own happiness. But the truth is that none of this exists. Like ourselves, the stars must run out of fuel, until there is a great nothingness, and everything we have ever done is meaningless. Defend your delusions all you want, but when you are on your deathbed, there must your pride be crushed.
DespairingBeing 5 months ago
the film touches on the subject of suicidal nihilism. losing all pretention of an afterlife or grand design all motives are merely killing time until your expiration date. all mankinds greatest inventions and feats disappear into dirt in time so whats the point of being here? why be awakened with a self aware conciousness if only to die like a brainless animal?what u care about doesn't matter what value u in your existence means nothing when ur ded. wen the planet goes who cares bout ur achvmnts
Asthegrave 5 months ago
What a worthless existence of hopeless self pity and subtle hatred for everyone else in the world. notice White never says that he's the cause of worlds the suffering, its always everyone elses fault and everyone elses problem, and he's getting out while he can. why not kill yourself? because you hate the happiness of everyone else and feel the voracious desire to make them as miserabel as yourself before you die. fortunately Blacks "faith" is empty already to be defeated in such a way, pathetic
th9joker 5 months ago
@th9joker
The use the law of conservation of matter is wrong. Not sure what definition of life and consciousness you are using, but in the material world where all it is is matter and energy and there is no way to remove either from existence that does not mean the arrangement cannot be done away with. Consciousness is a function of the arrangement, just as the brain is damaged so is the consciousness.
"composition of his life and conciousness"
Special terms? Special definitions?
19012422 5 months ago
the only things Black has to say are weak pat answers from people who have no idea what they believe or why. these pathetic grasping excuses for being happy every day. He doesn't even take responsibility for trying to help White, insisting he has no choice? what a set up for White "the wise but internally vacant and insistantly worthless" to take the upper hand be asserting control and offing himself. what does this film have say except that atheists all eventually want to kill themselves?
th9joker 5 months ago
He by his own account knows nothing of the world except what is covered in a book that he doesn't even believe in. furthar more, he has studied nothing in it! he doesn't know what the bible says about anything. he can't come up with any defense to Whites hard-on for death, and can't see for the last twenty minutes of the exchange that White is holding onto CONTROL. He doesn't recognise that White thinks that with all that is out of control, he holds onto the control of his own actions.
th9joker 5 months ago
this make perfect sense if it is not examined. the law of the conservation of matter would prohibit the composition of his life and conciousness however from ceasing to exist, however much he might desire them to. his design to escape, to find nothingness, and his posings as to the existence of god are philosophical masturbation.
Black was such a strawman. He was like a science student that knows what happens to a burned match but no incling as to why.
th9joker 5 months ago
@th9joker
Consciousness is the state of being aware. If you're trying to say that our ability to be aware never goes away, that even after death we will still be fully conscious bodies of energy, then I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong. Our consciousness and ability to think and be self aware is derived from neurons firing off in your brain, in other words, physical components directing energy traffic. Without the physical component you have nothing but energy, no consciousness.
atheistchaos 5 months ago
@atheistchaos Right, and every brain damaged person on the planet is evidence of this, change the brain and you change consciousness. Kill the brain, and you kill consciousness. Sucks, but I'd rather live in reality than live a life guided by false foundations.
bizzyb1999 4 months ago
Comment removed
th9joker 5 months ago
In assuming that he can avoid everything by leaving, he assumes that the composition of life, upon exiting the human body repels like compositions, and likewise that the composition of consciousness repells like compositions. yet in assuming that he can find "the darkness" he expects that he will not know he is there, and that his status of having arrived in nothingness will neatly coincide with his status of not being around to arrive anywhere.
th9joker 5 months ago
Science teaches us that there cannot be nothingness. There in lies the folly of Whites position; he makes his decisions based on the premise that since the world is evil, evil and pain are all he has to look forward to. he believes that in his own wisdom being a professor of darkness and a man without answers, that he alone can escape what everyone else must endure by will alone and that in spite of his lack of understanding as to the purpose or composition of life, that he can dodge a reckoning
th9joker 5 months ago
White and black agree on this point, that God wants us to continue forever in community. Black's response is to "turn up his collar against the wind" and continue on, but white doesn't have the courage for the journey. White only sees an eternity of pain with no end or meaning, the only rational response is to end the pain, "unravel the universe". I have also felt like that all my life, but I came to see that courage, even to the absurd limit of human dreams, is better than seeking out nothingn
fartonmeee 5 months ago
White is basically me except white and with a College education/vocabulary. He articulates so many of my feelings so well. I don't agree with absolutely everything, but the majority and the important parts are what I agree with.
vgman94 5 months ago
@Bagelboy615 "since the industrial revolution....we're too rushed to consider God's existence." We have more leisure time than ever to consider god's existence and in fact I do consider god's existence a lot. So far I've found no reason to believe he does (no good reason from the perspective of finding truth). I'm more interested in finding out why other people believe though and it seems it boils down to faith for most, which isn't any measure of truth. Faith allows for anything, truth does not
kevinscales 6 months ago
@kevinscales The label of "God" being a single entity, I don't believe may exist either. However, the origin of religion is most likely some ancient ritual or story that became so intermingled and jumbled up that everyone decided to tell the story differently until someone wrote down their views in a collection of books.
However, have you denounced the belief in extra-terrestrials existing?
They may very well be our "Gods." It's definitely a possibility.
Bagelboy615 6 months ago
@Bagelboy615 Many things are possible. The truth is, all that we really know is that we know nothing. The possibility of an existence beyond our understanding is exactly that. Regardless of the truth; be it a single entity as suggested, aliens or other... one can only guess. Much like the concept of people once believing the world to be flat, a belief system is based on experience and what is presented to us. The possibilities of any explanation is equally sound, the issue will never be settled.
ZeroAnnihilated 6 months ago
@Bagelboy615 The origin of religion I think can be explained just by looking at how people think and how societies/culture works. As for aliens as gods, I think it's a fascinating idea, makes for good science fiction but despite the fact that I believe intelligent alien life most likely exists out there, the chances that they would be near enough to us to have any interaction is far too improbable.
kevinscales 6 months ago
@kevinscales I was using Mircea Eliade's and Nietzsche's theories of the origin of religion.
As for the aliens being Gods, they've already covered that in a few adverse, yet obscure novels and articles. I believe they may have the power / resources to come to Earth, but don't wish to interfere with us since we are a violent species deep down.
Bagelboy615 6 months ago
@compactdisk2 It isn't necessarily the idea of people believing in God that's ridiculous. It's the STORY of God as it's told in the Bible. Talking snakes and bushes, people living to be 600 years old--yet in a modern world with internet capability, carbon dating methods and gene mapping, people still cling to what they know isn't even physically realistic. Even as a metaphor it fails in its moral logic.
MrAudacity11 7 months ago
@compactdisk2 I believe this film is more than God vs No God. To me, this is a film about seeking truth and meaning in our lives. And the fear that many people have to honestly search for what that is. To say that that search is ultimately predicated on whether one confirms or denies the existence of God is, in my opinion, oversimplifying the issue. The reason you get up in the morning. Where you want to go and who you want to be and why. That's what these men were talking about. just imo
TLeeFilms 7 months ago 2
@TLeeFilms I agree with this statement, but I think McCarthy was less concerned with the audiences interpretation and more concerned with creating pathos for Jackson's character. Black's entire motivation behind saving White was mainly for HIMSELF. If he brings a man to God, he validates his own quest for meaning (which you mention). Because he fails to save White, it creates a dramatic irony whereby HE becomes the tragic figure in the story, rather than White who attempted the suicide.
MrAudacity11 7 months ago
@Bagelboy615 Job, plagues, and Jesus' death? Those are your examples of man's shortcomings?
You must be trolling. Please tell my youre trolling.
gutstotake 7 months ago
@gutstotake Horribly, but yeah. Just trying to light some fires, and was borderline asleep when I wrote that.
Bagelboy615 6 months ago
If you stop arguing and act outside of the internet, maybe something will change. Don't prove the other side wrong by yelling your opinions, that isn't what this movie is about. It is about choosing what you believe in and not letting a troll change it. Nothing is Black and White.
LAllen7173 7 months ago
There is no God. There is no good and evil. There is only chaos and order. A chaos so deeply complex that it has no choice but to self organize it's self. You are not special. Deal with it and get on just being what you feel you must be. Death is just another nap.
xrockthe40ozx 8 months ago
is the besttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
akantodea 8 months ago
This is what I hate about this sort of discussion: people who have strong viewpoints and have it poorly thought out. Cormac McCarthy was a genius to present both points well thought out and to have his signature ending without an ending. People who post on topics like this need to remember that insulting other people will never bring them to your side; insulting will never make them think like you do. Instead, the anger will provoke hostility and drive the conversation far from the top at hand.
IamMrFat 8 months ago
@Bagelboy615 it's an endless cycle all coming down to how someone deals with reality. People deal with reality how ever they have to in order stay in existence, and why in the hell does it make you giggle? Because your purely fictional book has told you a good story after it was edited by the dozens of power hungry romans looking keep the empire together by taking part in the growing fad of christianity. not to mention the worlds existence 60000 miliion years before humanity.
wubranch1 8 months ago 2
It's as if there's a symbolic representation being played out between black and white, between arc angels and demon spawn. Its as if God and the Devil are there in that room watching over, playing there respective parts. The RAW power of this movie is enthralling.
wisdomtrek 8 months ago
Sad thing is that this is how Athiests are seen to most Christians. Dark, depressed, and hopeless.
Love Tommy Lee Jones though, excellent actor and portrayed the character well.
thrashingboy 8 months ago
Good movie, very deep. Don't know who i side with. As a atheist i lean twords white, yet bounce to black. The world as cruel and heartless as it is, can't be a product of a benevolent god. Hell, probably isn't the product of a god at all.Yet I don't share whites nihilistic view of the world, I think the lack of a after life, makes our days on earth few and precious, something to cherish. A comfortable fantasy vs. a harsh reality, It all really depends on what you make of it.
Roc099 8 months ago
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namesuser1590 9 months ago
the true is three dimensional ,there is no universal true
TheBeee31 10 months ago
The sad part is it is true, the truth is the scariest part. If their was a god none of the horrible things illness on the innocent, drugs, temptations, murders or war would happen because such a great god would not let this happen or make us suffer, If their was a god then he is not a good one or not powerful enough to stop the evil because this world has become a sick place and no one who created it would have let it go on with such evil unless they dont exist. So the truth is in this movie.
seamonkeymahem 10 months ago 6
@seamonkeymahem Read the Bible, dumbass. God doesn't just let this evil happen. He makes it happen! God is sovereign over all things. The wrath of God is currently pouring down on this sick world because they have forgotten God.
You have silly misconceptions because you listen to false prophets who talk about how God loves everyone. If you would crack a page of the Bible, you would know about how God punishes disobedient rebels. OBEY
einsatzdeath 8 months ago
@einsatzdeath Shut the fuck up! Who are you to tell other people to "OBEY"? The bible is a bunch of fictional bullshit!
There's a billion people starving on this planet right now, are they all disobediant rebels? How about millions of children dying of thirst, hunger and AIDS in Africa. All those people praying for help and nothing happens.
You're a sick motherfucker, people are not suffering because of punishment but because of human inaction and incompetence. Take your fatalism elsewhere!
Madz1987 8 months ago 2
@Madz1987 Haha, you seem like a fun person. ^_^
Bagelboy615 8 months ago
@Bagelboy615 lol thanks! I think that guy might just be trolling, look at the comments on his channel.
Madz1987 8 months ago
@seamonkeymahem you're not thinking about this nearly abstractly enough.
What is pain?
What is suffering?
We could all be sims, in a cosmic video game.
If our "god" were especially compassionate, he'd preserve our patterns after the simulation, and we'd all take a bow for our performances, and have a good chuckle about our "lives" that we lived, and all of our pain and suffering, while it wouldn't be trivialized, it wouldn't weigh us down.
AnonymousElektron 6 months ago
@seamonkeymahem *sigh*... when will people learn the difference between There, They're and Their?
ZeroAnnihilated 6 months ago
@seamonkeymahem God is not causing the suffering, PEOPLE are the cause of all the suffering. God gave us free will to either make or break our planet and we have apparently chosen to break it. PEOPLE stand idle while the innocent get sick and die, PEOPLE make and distribute drugs, PEOPLE murder, and PEOPLE declare and fight in wars. Self-accountability is the cost of Freedom, and if we truly want it don't blame God for all the suffering cause it is only our-self's.
premolatino 3 months ago
@premolatino I kill people in the name of your God. ^_^
Bagelboy615 3 months ago
@premolatino The problem isn't the initial cause of the evil. It's unambiguous that humans are responsible for all of our wrong doing. I'd like to know why God won't reveal himself, if he'd simply make it clear that he did exist, then there wouldn't be the billions of people we see today going to Hell for simply not choosing the correct set of propositions.
bizzyb1999 3 months ago
@bizzyb1999 Well, the people in the world who do believe in God in one form or another out number the people who don't, so whether or not God reveals himself in the physical is irrelevant. What you seem to be suggesting is that people need to fear God more than to know for a fact that HE (for lack of a more familiar pronoun) exist. Which kind of implies you already believe God exist, you just resent him for not revealing himself.
premolatino 3 months ago
@premolatino I was alluding to the Christian God in particular, individuals may believe in a certain God, but if you don't accept Jesus as your lord and savior then you will of course burn eternally. No, I directly said that it needs to be clear that God exists, rather than leaving billions upon billions of people going to Hell for simply not choosing the correct set of propositions in their life time. Why wouldn't he just employ his omniscience so that he could distinguish certain cases?
bizzyb1999 3 months ago
@bizzyb1999 I'm pretty sure he does just that, you simply have to die first. How do you expect God to to look and/or sound anyway? No matter what anthropomorphic form God chooses the people he looks like most will just use that to kill everyone else, and enter Jesus. Consider that the Hebrew God is the Christian God, and Jews don't believe in Jesus. Logic alone will tell you that you didn't go straight to hell just for being born B.C. Try "watch?v=tQBX7Uy6Sjk" if you really want to know.
premolatino 3 months ago
@premolatino Isn't the whole point to repent before you face judgement? I have no expectation for the appearance of God, I simply expect that he make his existence unambiguous, as should anyone. However, it's abundantly clear at this point that if God does exist he's gone out of his way to make his existence an easily debatable, easily questionable concept.
bizzyb1999 3 months ago
@bizzyb1999 Well, as written in the books of Enoch (omitted), judgement is not solely for each individual person upon entering the pearly gates of Heaven. After you die, if you are lucky enough to go to Heaven, you sit and wait an eternity until judgement day -- and on that day you may be permitted to enter Heaven, but before then you only get to sit outside the gates.
God's existence is as debatable as the existence of the multiverse. The argument will only continue to go in circles.
Bagelboy615 3 months ago
@premolatino You are so wrong, what I hate the most about Christian groups is not the fact that they believe in god, it's that they don't consider there's wayyy more religions than christians. Why would your beliefs be better than the others? Because you read a book? What if you were born a muslism?
CrashLemon 3 months ago
@CrashLemon First off calm down, I'm not even a Christian so you have no idea what I believe. Second Yeah, I do know how to read, I've read Christian scripture so I can interpret it doesn't mean I'm selling it. Third, just because you hate Christians and their doctrine does not mean there is no God. You wrote it yourself, there are other religions, and even if they're all wrong it doesn't disprove the possible existence of a God ( for lack of a better term ).
premolatino 2 months ago
@premolatino
Just as even if all accounts of unicorns are wrong, it doesn't disprove the possible existence of a god. Same with dragons, a mythological creature known world wide.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If you want to say god exist, you have to provide proof, just as if you claim unicorns exist you have to provide the proof (not the other way around).
atheistchaos 2 months ago
@atheistchaos I don't disagree, except for the fact that I don't care if you ever believe in a God. So there's no burden on me, like I already said "I'm not selling it", you're entitled to believe what you want. Although I'm sure you would like me to condemn you for not believing, that way you can justify all this anger you have for the so called "faithful". God doesn't condemn people either, and I don't give a fuck what the bible says to the contrary.
premolatino 2 months ago
@premolatino
Have you ever heard of projection? I never said anything that would hint at me being angry, which makes me think you probably have some fundamental problem with atheist that drives you up a wall.
In any case, it's irrelevant whether you you care or not about me, it's your argument, your weight in the conversation. If you don't provide proof for your claims, why should I even listen to them? I wouldn't, nor would I expect anyone else to do more than dismiss them.
atheistchaos 2 months ago
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@atheistchaos "Projection" funny you bring that up, cause your responding to a comment that wasn't even directed at you initially, implying that my possible anger is directed at all atheist instead of just you, all the while saying that anyone would dismiss an argument I'm not making (to which you're clearly not dismissing) to people I wasn't even talking to instead of just you. Stop asking me for proof, you're arguing with yourself at this point.
premolatino 2 months ago
@seamonkeymahem Way to find someone else to blame
hunglo101 1 month ago
@seamonkeymahem i can see where you are coming from, but things like war and murder for example people do to each other, obviously you could say God created those people, but god also created the nice, kind ,caring people we see in our daily lives.
BOYSSAN1993 1 week ago
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@seamonkeymahem i can see where you are coming from, but things like war and murder for example people do to each other, obviously you could say God created those people, but god also created the nice, kind ,caring people we see in our daily lives.
BOYSSAN1993 1 week ago
I love everyones opinion on it because in a way it shows what everyone values, ie the point in the movie. What is true to me is not always true for the next man
Cagebreaker21 11 months ago 3
I would posit that the power in this story is in how different people see it in different ways. As an atheist I read the continuing battle between religious and secular realms. Religion drives some of the best and worst in us. Rationality is consoling to the rational but not if they are empathetic to the sufferings of others. Sharing misery while knowing there is no hope is a heavy cross to bear. If the professor didn't have anyone left I almost understand how he is ready to not exist.
TheEmpiricalTruth 11 months ago
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@TheEmpiricalTruth I thought it was interesting that the professor mocked the idea of eternal life but at the same time much of his feeling and belief about the world centered around the idea of futility and that life has no meaning almost precisely because every road ends in death. If he gave himself over to the idea (true or not) he would probably not see the world in such terms anymore. Dostoevsky was probably the best writer at capturing the mindset of someone like the professor.
TubeGhost 11 months ago
Here's an idea, white wins because white wants to die and be erased from existence. No body, no mind, no thought.
Black wants heaven, with his conscience and body restored.
Black wants, White doesn't.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if you go through life expecting things all the time, you're going to be disappointed and sad, but if you go through life not wanting or expecting anything more than what you yourself create, then when something positive does happen its all the better.
ez1337ze 11 months ago 7
@ez1337ze To expect means to hope. Disappointment and futility kill hope. The less you expect, the less you hope. It's impossible to define how much or what to expect. Let alone prescribing a safe dosage or kind.
White has lost hope and is not expecting anything. He simply acknowledges life's futility and shares his thoughts with Black. Black is rendered speechless by the truth. It's the best dialog I've ever seen.
joro353 2 months ago
nice movie for sure but if you are depressive don't watch it. makes worse.
uloth333 1 year ago 4
@uloth333 I should edit that into the description. "If you are suicidal, do NOT watch this movie."
Bagelboy615 1 year ago 2
@Bagelboy615 damn, I just watched this part, don't know if it was the best or the worst thing to do for me
MehdiGlz 9 months ago
@Bagelboy615
I don't want to put any blame on anyone as my friend downloaded this movie off torrentz... but I am certain after watching this movie it led to his Sunset Limited. He had been depressed for a number of years and I think this made him realize that what he believed was true...The world is a fucked up place whether or not you believe in God
beandipper69 7 months ago
@Bagelboy615 my friend ended his life after watching this movie... it was a week later... but it probably just sealed his beliefs and whether or not you believe in god the world is a fucked up place.
beandipper69 7 months ago
love when a story has a great ending like this
raff2534 1 year ago
i wish i knew what the ending was suppose to symbolize. is black going to end up like white because of what transpired? is he going to end up insane? or is he asking us the audience if its " o. k." as a question for us to ponder about our lives or some crazy shit like that? what ever the conclusion is seems bad for black and i feel bad for him :( however i do really like this movie.
knuckshad 1 year ago
@knuckshad my guess is that cormac means to say that the world is an evil place and all the god in the world can't save man.
hellfiremurf 1 year ago
@hellfiremurf Really? not at all. For all his exploration of nihilist and existentialism, I don't think McCarthy is saying that at all. These guys represent poles in existence, life and death, faith and belief vs. unbelief, love vs. rage. Dostoevsky wrote about nihilists like this, read some of his books. I'd say that only if a man is willing to let go of his hate or anger at the world or his brother can he save himself.
TubeGhost 1 year ago
@knuckshad You have to remember, Black didn't give up his faith, he was sad and upset that he couldn't save the Professor from himself, even though he thought he was on that platform to save him. There's also the question as to whether the Professor DID die, because how would a man not see a large, bald man like Black when doing this in the first place? Perhaps Black is a soul sent to talk to White's spirit, and it's not about saving his life but his soul. The sunrise at the end is good.
TubeGhost 1 year ago
@knuckshad
Wow I feel like Samuel L started to question his faith at the end. I think this movie wanted people to think TLJ's viewpoint of the world is the light. Maybe the sun rising at the end represents a "lightbulb" going off in Samuel's head. What if Samuel L was the one that needed help and not Tommy Lee? Whatever the case...Good movie...I'm glad i watched it
namesuser1590 9 months ago
Beautiful
xenocideCM 1 year ago