Socialism is a great thing if used right. In true socialism everyone is equal. Cuba is actully quite nice and would be a hell of a lot better if it could trade with people its when you get a dictator that it is bad becaues he has full power and it gos to his head. Socialism can be a good thing but people are to stupid to use it properly.
Socialism is when the government owns or tries to gradually own all property. Communism is a type of socialism where the government tries to own all private property ostensibly for the purposes of workers' material equality with everyone else.
When the government tries to gradually own property for the ostensible purpose of keeping one national origin materially superior other national origins, it is called "National Socialism", or Nazism.
At the federal level, we're increasingly "half"-capitalist. At the individual state level, whether we've become more or less socialist depends on your perspective. For someone who was born a slave in 1860, the state is much more free market than in the past. For someone who is, say, a physician, the state is much more socialist than it was in the past with the government being much more involved.
See "The Fickle Faces of Mormon Mitt" and "Newt Gingrich: Republicans Hate the Poor and Middle Class" and "Ronald Reagan Tries to Get Out of Hell" at haldonrichardson1
Socialist International has the list online, so no secret. Karl Marx had written about socialism in the Communist Manifesto and not mentioned communism in his writing. He dreamed of socialism!
@craftbrosify Or how about Denmark, a country that has been run by socialists for about forty years, and they have LOWER unemployment and LOWER poverty than we do in the US.
Want to see Capitalism? Just look at Somalia: no regulation, no Obama, no rules, and as a result it's a PARADISE...ohh...wait... :)
@JoshuaCromarty: It's not like all the money in America is ONLY owned by the wealthiest one-percent. The other ninety-nine-percent DOES have wealth. Of the course the wealthiest one-percent are RICHER than the others, but they get rich by working hard. In most cases, the higher the salary for a job is, it takes more time to do the work. It's not like CEOs, lawyers, and doctors STOLE all their earned money from you.
What the Young Turks described as capitalism is not true capitalism at all. Whe
Just one more example of how without democracy and freedom of thought, socialism can never exist. How ironic that in order to combat socialism which is attacked as undemocratic, governments suppress freedoms and ignore rights to speech, expression, and assembly. Tell you something doesn't it?
I love how right wingers distort the true definition of socialism & equate it with soviet style communism which was authoritarian & deviated so far from Marx's philosophy it became its own thing (Look up Stalinism). Socialists are anti-authoritarian govt, they hate authoritarian govt like US foreign policy. They're egalitarians who believe collective ownership of production is ideal in unfettered, non-discriminatory distribution to the public. Govt truly owned by the ppl is a means to that end
To all the socialist, I love capitalism, and the freedom it gives me, I enjoy being able to buy what I want, and use it how I please. And we will never see a socialist America in our live time, nor should we
@syzygy502 I would disagree Comrade. Socialism means the government is owned by the people for the people. Socialism install's democracy into every aspect of Society. Its an Economic and Political System that erodes Social Classes to install fairness for all workers, not just bosses which happens under Capitalism.
@MrLovethelife I'm not saying that socialism is bad. I am saying that what it does means that the government is more involved in promoting the general welfare for the public which is in the Constitution by the way.
@syzygy502 Yea fair i hear what you're saying, its just i would argue its not the government being involved more for people but people owning the government in a democratic way in every aspect of society.
@syzygy502 Wrong. The constitution requires government involvement. It requires MINIMUM government involvement. Socialism is the abolishment of all private property. The government controls everything. There is no private property, or rights.
Literally, it is 1984.
Quite frankly, if you ask our President, he would say 1984 is something from his wet dreams.
Communism = a society without social classes, without a state, governing body or army, where the exploitation of human beings by other human beings has been ended and all members of society are provided with everything they need to grow and prosper and contribute to the wellbeing of others through their own personal development. This is the logical outcome of the unity of humanity, the dissolution of all national borders and the victory of socialism everywhere.
Socialism = the expropriation of the means of production by the working class and the institution of their democratic dictatorship. The economy is rationally planned to meet the needs of society as a whole. It is accepted by genuine Marxists (opposed that is to Stalinists, Maoists and Castroists) that socialism cannot be built in a single country and can be built only on the foundations of the most advanced countries.
Capitalism = the private ownership of the means of production, the banks and financial concerns, i.e the dictatorship of capital. Wealth is concentrated in the hands of the bourgeoisie and production occurs to generate profit.
Who says fascist is at the opposite end of the spectrum? Hey turk are you saying that , in a fascist system the government isn't involved in any one's life? turk is a fucking dumb ass. Answer the question turk you government worshiper.
There are'nt many arguements against this type of solution except that many commitees, bureaus or departments already exist to regulate the market but failed to act, so uncle sam creats more redundant programs to add to existing failed programs and now the govt is to big to sustain itself. We are capitalists and will always be!!!!. The significant difference is do you like to make your own decision in your life or have many of the things that you own or are responsible for to be taken away.
@JohnnyUltra305 Or rather your boss makes it for you. Democracy in America is much like democracy in Greece, democracy for the slaveowners. Do you forget the great depression? Liberal capitalism doesn't work and is therefore replaced with Keynes' system. The reason we are having these problems is because we let everything go unregulated. All capitalism should be destroyed, but one can only acknowledge that liberal capitalism is merely ideology whereas Keynesianism is based on actuality.
True socialism, not a free democratic country with some industries that are socialized, Which is the ultimate goal of socialism. The problem starts with a econmic bubbles in the free market that bursts, the mess that follows is then cleaned up by Govt. with tax payer money (private money). In order to keep the problem from happening again, regulation is imposed to control the market, and the govt grows in size and scope.
Has any one lived in a socialist country for an extended period of time? No,not visited a country, but lived , worked and raised a family in a completely socialized country? Govt. controls the means of production, they select the pay the workers get and how much gets made. they decide who gets what. Not on merit but by political affiliation. If your down with the struggle you can work( for shit pay) ,if not you cant work or probably get thrown in jail for bitching about it.
@JohnnyUltra305 Okay I'll bite. Have you ever lived in a socialist country? People getting paid based on political affiliation? That's a lot of people to file through for their political affiliations. Nope, worker's control what they get paid through workers councils. If you would have lived in a socialist country you would know that. And of course your next point is invalid. If socialism is worse than capitalism then why did living standards go down in the USSR after its collapse?
The fact that Cenk asserts that Socialism and Fascism are opposites suggests he doesn't really understand the problem either, and has got stuck on the left-right paradigm. They're actually so similar that fascist movements often call themselves socialist and few people notice. Really, almost all governments are inherently some way towards socialism, but wanting to keep them as far from that as possible is not an illegitimate view.
Im just wondering if capitalism would work without corruption, i honestly think that capitalism could work if we get rid of all the special interest groups, just like are church and state are separate so should are corporations and are state be separate. It seems to me the more company's and government mix the more are politicians loose interest in there constituents, and gain interest in there large donors.
@ijm95689 It doesn't work that way. The state is not a neutral instrument which all classes can use for their own benefit. It is directly under the control of the ruling class (the business owners and so on). They control the most central aspects of our lives, the workplace. They tell us what to do and gather the majority of the profits. Removing special interest groups is merely taking away a superficial inequality while maintaining a fundamental one.
@ElNuevoChe93 ok i get your point, the US is a Plutocracy, but what are the alternativeness, I see by your name that you might have Marxist Socialist leanings, and you may have a point Socialism and Communism might create the best future for humanity. But i do have some issues with it like how do you reward the harder working people how do you create competition and drive industry.
@ijm95689 In socialism (Marxist) not everyone is paid equally. You are paid according to your contribution which depends on how hard you work and how hard your job is. The difference between socialism and capitalism is that in capitalism you can own the means of production (businesses). When you own a business you are no longer being paid based on your contribution, you are getting money based off the labor of your workers. Marxists eliminate the bosses so one gets paid based off one's work.
it really irritates me how in the US the word socialist in itself is tabboo and is considered an insult.
The rest of the civilised world have socialism as part of their politcal landscape and it has played its part in making those countries better.
America doesn't have free healthcare, its education system is the worst in the civilised world and it doesn't protect those in society most vulnerable.
Many of us agree that the gov't is fucked up. Now, let's agree to fix it. This will only happen if we find agreement through rational dialog. Young Americans: shoot your TV & step away from your video games long enough to discuss your future; what you inherit will be in your hands, and in your minds.
@Rofistim When you say "highest standard of living in the world", what does that mean. Do you have large houses? Do you have lots of land? Do you have low cost food and housing?
Yes, the US is a big fat mess right now, and it comes mostly from hard left policies and political correctness. That's where Sweden excels, the politicians in Sweden are not a slave to political correctness like the spoiled politicians we have. I think the Socialist think America is the one place Socialism will work.
@Rofistim Are you sure you're a social democrat? Do you think we need to cut the budget much more than what the Reps and Dems agreed to on Friday night? I can't believe how much money our govt. is wasting, it's maddening. How are those on the left that criticized Bush for his spending, not criticizing Obama even more for his? I'm a Conservative Independent. I align more with Reps, but trust neither.
@Rofistim Well stated, and I agree. I do think Social Security is a good thing, but it's being touted as something it wasn't supposed to be, and they have expanded benefits to people who have never paid in to it. I also believe that over regulation can be very bad too. I think the regulations Obama is putting on the energy industry through the EPA is destructive and deceitful, as I still believe that Climate Change is just a natural cycle of mother nature. We are now in a cooling cycle.
@Rofistim One problem, they are both run by people and power corrupts. Neither system can operate as they are written on paper, because some one or some group always takes ultimate control and dictatorship, or totalitarian govt. reigns over the people to keep them in line. You CAN NOT have individual freedoms under either a Communist or a Socialist govt. They contradict themselves and can not coexist. Capitalism plays to the human nature to succeed and rewards hard work and ambition.
@Salvysahagun He also lived 200+ years ago, stop quoting him like he's a prophet. His statement makes sense according to his time. In the sense that the productive centers (workplaces/farms) should be in the hands of the people who work them, yeoman farmers and so on and not in feudal elites. Because in his time there was a conflict between feudalism and capitalism. Today it is capitalism and socialism. Also his statement is rather ironic because he was a slaveowner not really willing to work.
@Salvysahagun Regardless of how smart they were, They're theories are no longer relevant. Neo-liberal capitalism could only exist a long time ago, capitalism is based on the interests of the capitalist class against the interests of the working class. Being that the capitalist class is so outnumbered today, it has to appease the working class--hence welfare. Jefferson himself did not believe that his theories would be relevant a generation from his death. Hence every generation needs a rev
@Salvysahagun Marx developed a coherent theory for social evolution being materialism. Jefferson was relevant for his time, but even he did not believe that his ideology would be relevant today. Marx understood the past, and the relations of production. Also your Earth example doesn't make much sense. Trade has existed long before capitalism, going back to the first civilizations. Capitalism has evolved from feudalism and in turn becomes socialism as production increases.
@Salvysahagun you said it: power corrupts. one half of my family works in the health insurance industry. the other other half, in defense-- pretty much as a consequence of where we went to school and where we live. i can tell you, without irony, that the government that some people fear is coming to take their 'liberties' from them has absolutely no teeth. there's no 'free market' here. the government is merely a subsidiary and marketer of and for these industries. we all just customers.
@Salvysahagun Also we socialists understand that capitalism makes the conditions for socialism. Read Capital by Marx and he'll state this. Feudalism also creates the conditions for capitalism. But that doesn't mean we should maintain feudalism. Everything is appropriate for its time. Capitalism only grows when it moves people from the peasantry to the industrial proletariat. It can no longer do this, therefore it is a system of the past. Socialism is best suited to the growth of us workers.
It is. But, of course, neither will ever be implemented according to their exact definitions. As long as all scoietal sectors are treated on their own terms first and foremost, I'm happy. Socialism is better than capitalism in all forms, however.
@mangeloz These are sad times when people simply seeking social democracy ask for socialism. The difference is huge. In asking for Sweden you shall receive North Korea
@magicblanket North Korea is neither socialist nor social democratic. Their leading class is a military super-structure. In socialism the working class controls the means of production, and they clearly don't in North Korea.
@Rhys17 Yea i kinda agree but i would say its worth pointing out that the way "Communism" has been practiced has always had some bad elements of Capitalism within it, whether its been USSR, Cuba, China etc
I argue that Libertarian Socialism must be attempted in order for Capitalism to be dismantled.
@Zendout1 Oh shut up. You are a traitor to American society. Union members are socialists? They just want a fair wage and you expect a government handout by taxing the poor. Democrats were the ones who started America. They were called the Federalists. This is not the Republicans country. It is our country. Democrats should be the ones to permanently lead this country. I am on the right side of this battle and Democrats will keep our country. GO OBAMA. Also, you have been reported.
You guys are so biased! Remember, Karl Marx the auther of the Communist Manifesto had not mentioned one word of Communism in his manifesto, he mentioned only socialism. You know, socialism as dreamed by Karl Mark.
It wasn't "17", it was "70", you ignorant oaf. Just because YOU embrace socialism and claim not to find fault with it, is no ringing endorsement to me.
@757optim You are a shrill little twerp and stupid too, since you admire nutbags like Bachmann. 17 or 70, it is only the feverish speculation of a paranoid fool like you.
@757optim Don't waste your time with idiotic drone Libs. They are so ignorant & set in their ways it is pointless to argue with them. Listening to the lying Turds sugar coat their Socialist beliefs. Wow, listening to Cenk as I type this, his bias and rhetoric is ridiculous. "I'm not interested in Bachus' list." He just essentially tried to imply that Conservatives are "dangerous" and "stupid". Excuse me??? What a manipulator. I have no doubt I'm on the "RIGHT" side on this battle. Let's Roll!
@AmericanskBlatte Well, your comment is a bit difficult to understand. Are you asking me why I believe I'm on the right side of the debate? I think that's what you're asking. My reason's are as follows.... Liberals in general want the govt. to help fund abortions, they want 16 year old girls to not have to tell their parents if they go get an abortion, they believe in bigger govt. to take care of the people, and they don't believe in capitalist principles, and Libs use racism as a crutch.
@cpm199 My intent was to prevent yelling and name accusations. As for your statement, it is a gross overstatement. I highly doubt that most liberals want government to fund abortions, but rather have it as a legal option. The rest of your reasons are again generalization. I personally scared shitlist of federal medicine, but state-run. Sure. I just find it ironic that right disregard socialist services yet increase spending on the biggiest socialist complex in America, the military!
@AmericanskBlatte Well, I want abortion as a legal option! I don't want coat hanger abortions in alley's. I understand that different people have different situations and different beliefs and goals in life. I stated at the beginning that my comments were generally based. Amen! I'm all about Federalism. Let the states decide the policy for the citizens. If you want socialized healthcare, go to Mass. If you don't go to another state. That's how the founders planned it to be.
@AmericanskBlatte Well, Libs attack the rich, I aspire to be one of the rich some day. It's our economic system that keeps that dream alive for ANYONE who works hard enough to attain it. Try that in China! I would be ok with some cuts to the military, but America needs a strong military, if we don't have a strong military who will be the worlds super power? China? Do you think China will do what's right when it comes to humanitarian needs in the world? They don't even do what's right in China!
@cpm199 Well, it doesn't really. Without regulation only the lucky few get rich, while the rest live in hard-working serfdom. Besides it seems if your good at manupulating buisiness and people then you become rich. To me the hardworking blue collar and specialists deserve thier share too. Unfortunately, wealth seems to be accumlating at the top 1%. I hardly doubt that we need to be a superpower. Let us sort out our own problems first and let Europe better develope is military complex.
@AmericanskBlatte No sir, don't believe that crap. You work hard enough, you can be wealthy, you just need to work hard at it, and you have to take RISKS! That's the problem, really. The wealthy that built their wealth from little to nothing did it because they were willing to risk their financial future to do so. Libs just want to take it all away. Hey man, I'm going to friend you, because I am going to pull some audio I heard yesterday and put it in a youtube vid, I want you to hear it.
@cpm199 Its not about effort its about Buisiness and strategic risk. Its manupilating the marketing to your favour, and I can personaly tell you my mother, as a teacher worked her ass off for her kids but got little for it. Most of the weathly inherited it, or got with ridicoulous bonuses from big corporations. As you may know the economy expands communly, or as a whole. This cant be done with money saved at the top.
@AmericanskBlatte But your mom didn't invest money into starting her own school, instead, she took a job at a school, therefore she automatically agreed to work on their terms. She could've started her own school, but chose not to because (I assume) it wasn't worth the risk of losing money.
@Chaaarge No, as she didn't have the means too. Furthermore, it wasn't in her passion to earn the most money but to educate, but why because of that noble proffesion must she note be entitled to the security that the wealthy have in heathcare. As a person that started schools, he must manupilate the market to his advantage to earn a profit ie reduce costs, which obviously can led to unethical means. However, a state-run school runs a standard that provents private schools to dropping to such low
@AmericanskBlatte But it's possible to take loans from a bank to open up a school, if the school then provides good quallity education for a good price, then there will be costumers. Of course there's a risk in taking loans, but that's what business is about, taking risks. Or start smaller, and gradually build up the business. Of course the government has to make sure there's no fraud in the market, I'm not arguing that. btw, private school are usually of higher quallity than public schools
@Chaaarge And always will be, but it is the public schools that set the standard as decided by the people of the state and gives education to those that would not before. Certainly she can do that if she had the colleteral to do so, but she doesnt, so there is no equal oppurtunity. But even so, profit is also made by cutting costs, and even under a regulated economy there are some ethical issues to that. Thats why we dont trust the protection of our people with private run police and fireman.
@AmericanskBlatte and about the standards of living, you must also look at how fair our system is. It's not fair that someone who doesn't work makes money, when someone else does work and makes money. I personally voted for the moderates in sweden (yes, I'm swedish), who I think have been better for the economy than the social democrats, especially for the great work financial minister Borg and prime minister Reinfeldt have done during the financial crisis
@Chaaarge Jag gjorde samma sak. Mona Sahlin är en fucking idiot. However, the moderates are advocaters of Social Democracy as well, but lean to a more libertarian approach. And I agree with you, Welfare as a mean of temporary security is fine, but as long term, no way. But even so, I would not deny them rights to socialized institutions such as healthcare and education.
@AmericanskBlatte oh, in that case I agree with you on most things. Again, I do think most things should be run by the market, but there is room for some government run things, like the fire department, police etc... I just thought you ment the social democratic party, lol. and I agree that short term welfare can be beneficial. Maybe we just need some strict rules for it? (you have to be searching for a job you can do, you must take a job when offered one and so on...)
@Chaaarge No haha, I wouldn't refer to a single Swedish policy on American politics. No, the red-green, I believe, have become too authoritarian, especially with the unions. As for welfare, I beleive you are put on for six months, unless you are an immigrant (grrr..jag vet att jag är en invandrare, men det e fortforande dum ), disabled, old etc. In that period if you dont seek either an education or a job you are dropped.
@Chaaarge Its once said that it takes a village to raise a child, and its from this that I believe that we need to have a great foundation of equal security and oppurtunity for us to flourish within a regulated capatilist market. Thus, balancing the need for individualism and socialism. It is this basis that has allowed Social Democracy to florish in Sweden, Norway, Australia and other countries where the standard of living is at its highest.
@AmericanskBlatte if we look at this assuming the market is perfect, we can see that in order for a business owner to make money he must provide a product people will buy at a good price. If someone buys it, it means that he wants that product. so it's a win-win situation. So what's left to do is to make sure that the market is actually run that way, and this calls for anti-fraud rules, making sure there's no stealing etc.
@Chaaarge But then that organisation to regulate those rules is a socialized institution. Even so there is no such thing as a perfect market, as monopolies can occur and wealth accumulates towards the minority, and yadada. However, capatilism advocates indvidualism, which is nice, but Sweden's wealth can also be attributed to the social base that has allowed to flourish.
@AmericanskBlatte Libs don't support individual responsibility like conservatives do. Libs don't trust corporations, but they fully trust their govt. for some reason. I don't trust either, but at least corporations provide jobs, fuel the economy and innovation, and large governments have a much worse human rights track record than large corporations could ever have. I can't think of any large corporations that have killed millions of people, yet Libs demonize corporations all the time.
In Sweden we count the Liberals as Right-Wing. We choose to vote on the red side (Socialdemocrats, green party and Communists) or the blue side (Liberals, conservatists and capitalists)
HA! What rules has the government made? I'm 17, and My government is not working to make life better for me or my family.What is wrong with socialism? Fuck the ridiculous the corrupt, money hungry, deregulated cooperation.
WE ARE THE NEW GENERATION! FUCK YOU OLD BASTERDS!
LOL! Are you really this retarded? Everything is wrong with socialism! You have to pay more taxes in a socialist society because that money goes to all the welfare/lazy/homeless bums.
@Badeshatube Your government's not working to make life better for you now, what makes you think it'll be better under socialism when they gain even more traction? What is a deregulated "cooperation"? You mean corporation? You act like this is some sort of shift in generation values... you do realize that there were a lot of socialists at the beginning of the 20th century, right? More than now. They were disillusioned with socialism, and I'm sure you will be too.
"you do realize that there were a lot of socialists at the beginning of the 20th century, right?"
Where? ;p
And yes, it is a shift indeed in generational values. The Baby Boomers that came of age and wrecked this nation with the Regan Revolution have much to answer for, for their selfish, self-absorbed, grasping period of control.
Perhaps we should just wait until our current health system kills them all off.
@Badeshatube WHAT! I am 24, and your a useful idiot! You want to live under socialism? Do you want everyone to be EQUALLY POOR? Socialism and communism has NEVER worked in the past, study your damn history man. You go live under socialism and I bet within a few months you'll be begging to come back to capitolism. Socialist want to take over the world man and make everyone equally POOR, while the ellites smoke cigars... Have fun, useful idiot....
@justinadams33 You misinterpret the phrase "useful idiot" by the way. Also I ask that you study your history and look for a single nation that has called itself "communist". I guarantee that you will find none. Also you make many ignorant statements about socialism. What did Russia look like before 1917. A heavily unindustrialized war torn feudal-monarchy. Post Stalin it was an industrial competitor to the US, had abolished homelessness, starvation, and had free healthcare and education.
Who is this bozo on this video? If You idiots want Socialism Go move to Russia or China or N. Korea I am sure they would love to have you. here in America We both don't want You or will tolerate Your stupid failed ideas that is why a socialist, communist, progressive, liberal are insane they keep trying the same failed ideas over and over again. Their is a reason they call us the right is because we are Right in our beliefs, principles, and corps values. None of which you on the left have.
@Bomber0907 Corruptions my friend exist in every country and every form of government. I am a 100% against communism because it is a total failure: Cuba, North Korea.
China and Russia have long ago decided to embraced the capitalistic system and that is why their economies are doing so well, they both below to the prestigious BRIC.
China is now the second biggest economy in the world after the US.
@ThePackers123 Wrong, maybe not for you in the US but for us in Europe there are plenty of handouts. People are getting paid by the governments for children & other things. Your socialist fear is laughable believing every country outside the US is socialist & below you. Anyway I don`t care what americans thinks it matters nothing to me
@ConquerAndDethrone That is such B.S. There isn't a limited amount of wealth. Wealth can be created in a free, capitalist society. The Marxist know nothing about the economy. Hey, the Soviet Union called, they want their propaganda back.
@ThePackers123 It`s not possible to go on & on endlessly creating wealth there has got to be a roof but americans don`t seem to grasp that. It`s only very few that gets truly rich in a capitalist economy such as the US such claims are just lies & hype.
@ConquerAndDethrone Sorry your wrong and socialism is wrong. There are always ways to generate new wealth. Like a new oil field discovery. The day the oil is discovered the wealth grows. Each time a new industry is invented wealth grows. There is no cap. Was there a cap in 1800? How about 1900, or 2000. There is no cap because there will always be inventions and discoveries. That is unless we become socialist slaves to the State.
@ThePackers123 So the answer is to keep finding an oil field - which of course happens every day in America. Though of course these oil fields happen to be other people's countries.
@jackwilshiresfakeid We have the biggest oil field in the world right here. We will vote these anti Americans out soon, vote pro Americans in and start renewing our country.
Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US reserves by 10x
America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply
In the next 30 days the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) will release a new report giving an accurate resource assessment of the Bakken Oil Formation that covers North Dakota and portions of South Dakota and Montana. With new horizontal drilling technology it is believed that from 175 to 500 billion barrels of recoverable oil are held in this 200,000 square mile reserve that was initially
discovered in 1951. The USGS did an initial study back in 1999 that estimated 400 billion recoverable barrels were present but with prices bottoming out at $10 a barrel back then the report was dismissed because of the higher cost of horizontal drilling techniques that would be needed, estimated at $20-$40 a barrel.
It was not until 2007, when EOG Resources of Texas started a frenzy when they drilled a single well in Parshal N.D. that is expected to yield 700,000 barrels of oil that real excitement and money started to flow in North Dakota. Marathon Oil is investing $1.5 billion and drilling 300 new wells in what is expected to be one of the greatest booms in Oil discovery since Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1938.
The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run
@ThePackers123 Propping up weird hostile mideast countries (saudi, kuwait & some others) is totally on your account & your mistake & you need to stop it asap. I don`t see anything good with propping up a bunch of fucking hostile religious fanatical crazies, just idiotic.
@ThePackers123 So the great depression that was Americas' fault and devastated the world is what i should be greatful for? And I think youll find that America didnt help out in WW2 until they were attacked in 1941. So gee thanks for all your help there, awfully nice. And I think youll find that Britain bailed America out of the great depression and only paid Britain back recently. So ive got nothing to be greatful for really. Just waiting till my tax money pays America out of another depression
@ThePackers123 Well well done for cutting and pasting stuff off a random unofficial site. Anyway my exchange with you over this thread is getting rather tedious and I've entertained you a lot longer than any woman would without her asking for payment, so let's just say we'll agree to disagree.
@ThePackers123 But if you invent something new it usually takes wealth away from another sector - if you invent the TV, there's less wealth spent in the cinema. If you invent the internet there's less advertising wealth spent on the TV. If you invent a plane, people holiday abroad which helps overseas resorts and a domestic resorts suffer a loss.
@ThePackers123 Like in the industrial revolution, if you invent new means of production the owner of the means of production takes the wealth from the artisans and the skilled tradespeople, as mentioned by Marx in Das Kapital - which you've claimed to have read many times. And Marx being a student of economics means his grasp of this is far better than yours.
@upabittoolate You have no idea what America is all about. Do not get your idea of America from MTV or movies because it is the farthest thing from what life in the U.S. is all about. You Tube high school football or things like that to see what America is really about.
@ThePackers123 I never watch MTV or Hollywood Movies - your popular culture is a pile of wank. When I look at your country on an atlas it merely looks like it's in the shape of a great big fat arse. I'm glad god stuck an ocean between us and the yanks. He probably made the US land on the moon first in the hope they'd all fuck off there and leave the world in peace.
@jackwilshiresfakeid It is sad really. You are like the jealous kid that looks at the great athlete and wishes he could be like them but alas you can't because you have no athletic ability and you are too much of a puss to play a real sport like Football. So you sit and simmer and call names behind the good looking great athletes back because that somehow should make you feel better. But it doesn't. So you get mad and bitter and you hate the perfect guy. Kinda like the reason you hate us.
@ThePackers123 I think you'll find China is fitter and better looking economy than you now dear boy. In fact if we remove the metaphor and talk literally almost anyone is fitter and better looking than your average American. With regard to 'football' I think you'll find most women of the world would rather spend a night with David Beckham or Cristiano Ronaldo than any American 'Footballer', whose names us in the rest of the world neither know, or care about.
About 46% of men in England and 32% of women are overweight (a body mass index of 25-30 kg/m2), and an additional 17% of men and 21% of women are obese (a body mass index of more than 30 kg/m2 ).
Overweight and obesity increase with age. About 28% of men and 27% of women aged 16-24 are overweight or obese but 76% of men and 68% of women aged 55-64 are overweight or obese.
@ThePackers123 Pretty much anywhere other than the USA everyone knows the answer to who Beckham is. Most people can't recognise any NFL players though. BTW American Football is a commie sport. It has a wage cap, all the shit teams get first pick of the new players and the NFL deals with all the players contracts (big state). Also American Footballers are lazy - they work about 17 weeks of the year and play 1 game a week. Footballers play 2 a week and with a world cup the season lasts 11 months.
@jackwilshiresfakeid Well obesity in America is a new phenomenon. About 17 years ago under the Clinton administration they made fat a disability. Then they started political correctness and brainwashed people into not telling fat people they were fat and to lose weight. I am just as sad to see the fatty's but guess what. There isn't as many as they try to portray. But I have seen your gross BBC show where the skinny Brit smells peoples poo. They are not so skinny.
@ThePackers123 The current owners are illegitimate, they get there money via exploiting there workers. How do they continue to buy means of production? By exploiting workers out of there surplus labor. The workers are the rightful owners of the means of production.
This same argument was used by slave owners, "So your going to steal MY slaves, MY property!?!".
@cary123 Exploiting. Paying them for their labor is exploiting. So when the workers own the factories they will be exploiting themselves? So stupid. Exploiting. It isn't the workers that are risking everything getting a business going and running a business. They sure did a great job in the Soviet Union. Oh wait. No they didn't they failed. I am sure the workers in China are very happy not getting exploited as they make 3 dollars a day and live in 10 x 10 hovels. Communism is tyranny.
@cary123 If they agree to a price that is the full value. What is the full value? Have you ever ran a business? What makes you think you are entitled to the owners profit. Is the owner twisting your arm and forcing you to work for them. If you think you are worth more why don't you start a company of your own. If you did, if you ran your own business and took your own risk you would change your tune quick.
It is funny how every failed commie state wasn't really communist. Sure they weren't.
@ThePackers123 The total profit of the sale of the product. Because he didnt create the product. I have helped run a business in the past actually.
First of all. SOCIALIST STATE. Now, there were many, Paris Commune, Anarchist Spain/Ukraine(Although not a state technically), Pre-1922 Soviet Union, and some early Kubbitiz's.
Yes I have grown up in a bourgeois family, so what? By the way, when you were very young did you work for whatever? When you were 2?
@cary123 If I have an idea and I raise capital and I build a factory and I hire a crew and I produce a product. How didn't I create the product. I knew you grew up wealthy because you have no dreams. You grew up at the top with no wants so you need to find meaning so why not help the oppressed poor except people who grow up poor do not feel oppressed or poor. Most feel rich. Rich in family and dreams. Dreams about how we are going to make it.. Communism isn't the answer. Love is.
@ThePackers123 Most of the repayment for the factory will be threw exploitation of the surplus labor of proletariat. So because the workers paid for it in de facto, its there collective property.
The surplus labor that goes to the bourgeois is much bigger then the payment for factory repairs and stuff.
I am not concerned with the consumer, I am concerned with the worker, besides in communism money nolonger exists, so none of this will matter.
@cary123 you don't care about the consumer? Isn't the consumer also a worker somewhere else? How does money not exist. How do you purchase supplies? Through trade? If through trade then doesn't everything become a commodity which means everything is money? You would be surprised how slim the profit margin is in a business.
@ThePackers123 Consumers dont drive history, Class struggle does.
In communism, were there are ample resources, its simply a gift economy people take and people give in the free exchange of goods, were there are not, the goods are rationed out according to how many hours you have worked.
He wants to be the new Joe McCarthy.
thirteendays13 2 weeks ago
People do not realize you can have a communism without a dictator.
JRowan180 4 weeks ago
Socialism is a great thing if used right. In true socialism everyone is equal. Cuba is actully quite nice and would be a hell of a lot better if it could trade with people its when you get a dictator that it is bad becaues he has full power and it gos to his head. Socialism can be a good thing but people are to stupid to use it properly.
JRowan180 4 weeks ago
@2:09,
Socialism is when the government owns or tries to gradually own all property. Communism is a type of socialism where the government tries to own all private property ostensibly for the purposes of workers' material equality with everyone else.
When the government tries to gradually own property for the ostensible purpose of keeping one national origin materially superior other national origins, it is called "National Socialism", or Nazism.
MegaAstrodude 1 month ago
@2:01,
At the federal level, we're increasingly "half"-capitalist. At the individual state level, whether we've become more or less socialist depends on your perspective. For someone who was born a slave in 1860, the state is much more free market than in the past. For someone who is, say, a physician, the state is much more socialist than it was in the past with the government being much more involved.
MegaAstrodude 1 month ago
The U.S. is socialist....787 Billion dollars given to corporations through TARP...and twice as much dolled out in 'loans' through the FED.
Joseph565112 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
See "The Fickle Faces of Mormon Mitt" and "Newt Gingrich: Republicans Hate the Poor and Middle Class" and "Ronald Reagan Tries to Get Out of Hell" at haldonrichardson1
haldonrichardson1 1 month ago
Socialist International has the list online, so no secret. Karl Marx had written about socialism in the Communist Manifesto and not mentioned communism in his writing. He dreamed of socialism!
stephenabm 2 months ago
ahh yes, socialism. A prime example is Greece, where on October 4, 2009, when the Socialist party won over greece. I wonder how there doing now? ;)
craftbrosify 2 months ago
@craftbrosify Or how about Denmark, a country that has been run by socialists for about forty years, and they have LOWER unemployment and LOWER poverty than we do in the US.
Want to see Capitalism? Just look at Somalia: no regulation, no Obama, no rules, and as a result it's a PARADISE...ohh...wait... :)
mysticresistence 2 months ago
@mysticresistence anarchy, not capitalism.
craftbrosify 2 months ago
So you want socialism
youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related
TheSaccasa 5 months ago
its nice to know that through out history, Fascism hasn't been misinterpreted into being something its not. sucks for Communism.
good thing im more of a third way centrist of some sort.
SocialUnrest278 6 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty: It's not like all the money in America is ONLY owned by the wealthiest one-percent. The other ninety-nine-percent DOES have wealth. Of the course the wealthiest one-percent are RICHER than the others, but they get rich by working hard. In most cases, the higher the salary for a job is, it takes more time to do the work. It's not like CEOs, lawyers, and doctors STOLE all their earned money from you.
What the Young Turks described as capitalism is not true capitalism at all. Whe
schwerinthegreat 6 months ago
Just one more example of how without democracy and freedom of thought, socialism can never exist. How ironic that in order to combat socialism which is attacked as undemocratic, governments suppress freedoms and ignore rights to speech, expression, and assembly. Tell you something doesn't it?
Winterwolf00 6 months ago
I love how right wingers distort the true definition of socialism & equate it with soviet style communism which was authoritarian & deviated so far from Marx's philosophy it became its own thing (Look up Stalinism). Socialists are anti-authoritarian govt, they hate authoritarian govt like US foreign policy. They're egalitarians who believe collective ownership of production is ideal in unfettered, non-discriminatory distribution to the public. Govt truly owned by the ppl is a means to that end
mangeloz 6 months ago
Who says you can't buy whatever you want with socialism? Don't mistake it with communism mate!
yongkykuncoro 6 months ago
To all the socialist, I love capitalism, and the freedom it gives me, I enjoy being able to buy what I want, and use it how I please. And we will never see a socialist America in our live time, nor should we
footbalr074 6 months ago
People need to realize that socialism is not a system where the government takes over everything. It's just where the government is involved.
syzygy502 6 months ago 6
@syzygy502 I would disagree Comrade. Socialism means the government is owned by the people for the people. Socialism install's democracy into every aspect of Society. Its an Economic and Political System that erodes Social Classes to install fairness for all workers, not just bosses which happens under Capitalism.
MrLovethelife 5 months ago
@MrLovethelife I'm not saying that socialism is bad. I am saying that what it does means that the government is more involved in promoting the general welfare for the public which is in the Constitution by the way.
syzygy502 5 months ago
@syzygy502 Yea fair i hear what you're saying, its just i would argue its not the government being involved more for people but people owning the government in a democratic way in every aspect of society.
MrLovethelife 5 months ago
@syzygy502 …in everything.
00D00 4 months ago
@00D00 False. Another troll who tries to make socialism sound like communism. All socialism is is more government oversight in big business.
syzygy502 4 months ago
@syzygy502 And we ned more of that why? And is in everything, government oversight in ALL business, not just big business.
00D00 4 months ago
@00D00 Government is not in small business in socialism. We need to make sure that the big businesses pay their taxes.
syzygy502 4 months ago
@syzygy502 Wrong. The constitution requires government involvement. It requires MINIMUM government involvement. Socialism is the abolishment of all private property. The government controls everything. There is no private property, or rights.
Literally, it is 1984.
Quite frankly, if you ask our President, he would say 1984 is something from his wet dreams.
This guy is wrong. Horribly wrong.
XSE256 1 month ago
Communism = a society without social classes, without a state, governing body or army, where the exploitation of human beings by other human beings has been ended and all members of society are provided with everything they need to grow and prosper and contribute to the wellbeing of others through their own personal development. This is the logical outcome of the unity of humanity, the dissolution of all national borders and the victory of socialism everywhere.
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty Sounds great on paper, does not work in real life.
00D00 4 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty Is your mind fucked? Do everyone a favor and move to Cuba, or better yet North Korea...
MrFreeCookie 2 months ago
Socialism = the expropriation of the means of production by the working class and the institution of their democratic dictatorship. The economy is rationally planned to meet the needs of society as a whole. It is accepted by genuine Marxists (opposed that is to Stalinists, Maoists and Castroists) that socialism cannot be built in a single country and can be built only on the foundations of the most advanced countries.
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
Capitalism = the private ownership of the means of production, the banks and financial concerns, i.e the dictatorship of capital. Wealth is concentrated in the hands of the bourgeoisie and production occurs to generate profit.
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
Joseph McCarthy all over again
mrtocci 7 months ago
Who says fascist is at the opposite end of the spectrum? Hey turk are you saying that , in a fascist system the government isn't involved in any one's life? turk is a fucking dumb ass. Answer the question turk you government worshiper.
buckwheatinuqueers 7 months ago
There are'nt many arguements against this type of solution except that many commitees, bureaus or departments already exist to regulate the market but failed to act, so uncle sam creats more redundant programs to add to existing failed programs and now the govt is to big to sustain itself. We are capitalists and will always be!!!!. The significant difference is do you like to make your own decision in your life or have many of the things that you own or are responsible for to be taken away.
JohnnyUltra305 7 months ago
@JohnnyUltra305 Or rather your boss makes it for you. Democracy in America is much like democracy in Greece, democracy for the slaveowners. Do you forget the great depression? Liberal capitalism doesn't work and is therefore replaced with Keynes' system. The reason we are having these problems is because we let everything go unregulated. All capitalism should be destroyed, but one can only acknowledge that liberal capitalism is merely ideology whereas Keynesianism is based on actuality.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
True socialism, not a free democratic country with some industries that are socialized, Which is the ultimate goal of socialism. The problem starts with a econmic bubbles in the free market that bursts, the mess that follows is then cleaned up by Govt. with tax payer money (private money). In order to keep the problem from happening again, regulation is imposed to control the market, and the govt grows in size and scope.
JohnnyUltra305 7 months ago
Has any one lived in a socialist country for an extended period of time? No,not visited a country, but lived , worked and raised a family in a completely socialized country? Govt. controls the means of production, they select the pay the workers get and how much gets made. they decide who gets what. Not on merit but by political affiliation. If your down with the struggle you can work( for shit pay) ,if not you cant work or probably get thrown in jail for bitching about it.
JohnnyUltra305 7 months ago
@JohnnyUltra305 Okay I'll bite. Have you ever lived in a socialist country? People getting paid based on political affiliation? That's a lot of people to file through for their political affiliations. Nope, worker's control what they get paid through workers councils. If you would have lived in a socialist country you would know that. And of course your next point is invalid. If socialism is worse than capitalism then why did living standards go down in the USSR after its collapse?
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
The fact that Cenk asserts that Socialism and Fascism are opposites suggests he doesn't really understand the problem either, and has got stuck on the left-right paradigm. They're actually so similar that fascist movements often call themselves socialist and few people notice. Really, almost all governments are inherently some way towards socialism, but wanting to keep them as far from that as possible is not an illegitimate view.
andrewsurtees 7 months ago
Im just wondering if capitalism would work without corruption, i honestly think that capitalism could work if we get rid of all the special interest groups, just like are church and state are separate so should are corporations and are state be separate. It seems to me the more company's and government mix the more are politicians loose interest in there constituents, and gain interest in there large donors.
ijm95689 8 months ago
@ijm95689 It doesn't work that way. The state is not a neutral instrument which all classes can use for their own benefit. It is directly under the control of the ruling class (the business owners and so on). They control the most central aspects of our lives, the workplace. They tell us what to do and gather the majority of the profits. Removing special interest groups is merely taking away a superficial inequality while maintaining a fundamental one.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@ElNuevoChe93 ok i get your point, the US is a Plutocracy, but what are the alternativeness, I see by your name that you might have Marxist Socialist leanings, and you may have a point Socialism and Communism might create the best future for humanity. But i do have some issues with it like how do you reward the harder working people how do you create competition and drive industry.
ijm95689 7 months ago
@ijm95689 In socialism (Marxist) not everyone is paid equally. You are paid according to your contribution which depends on how hard you work and how hard your job is. The difference between socialism and capitalism is that in capitalism you can own the means of production (businesses). When you own a business you are no longer being paid based on your contribution, you are getting money based off the labor of your workers. Marxists eliminate the bosses so one gets paid based off one's work.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
I love watching these dumb shits acting like what they know they're talking about on the topics of Economics.
Please take a class or two!
Salvysahagun 8 months ago
Listening to this joker, Is like listening to an idiot
Cornbreadressing 8 months ago
Turkey sounds like a teabagger commie as opposed to a Tea Party member
Cornbreadressing 8 months ago
it really irritates me how in the US the word socialist in itself is tabboo and is considered an insult.
The rest of the civilised world have socialism as part of their politcal landscape and it has played its part in making those countries better.
America doesn't have free healthcare, its education system is the worst in the civilised world and it doesn't protect those in society most vulnerable.
America needs some socialism.
srspower 8 months ago
Many of us agree that the gov't is fucked up. Now, let's agree to fix it. This will only happen if we find agreement through rational dialog. Young Americans: shoot your TV & step away from your video games long enough to discuss your future; what you inherit will be in your hands, and in your minds.
SIMKINETICS 8 months ago
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Socialist Party?
TheGeeHak 8 months ago
I piss on socialist
italianboys82 8 months ago
You are rather confused with your definitions of communism/socialism.
FeildMusician123 9 months ago
@Rofistim Thank you brother! Sleep well, and keep us in your prayers, we need it right now.
cpm199 9 months ago
@Rofistim When you say "highest standard of living in the world", what does that mean. Do you have large houses? Do you have lots of land? Do you have low cost food and housing?
Yes, the US is a big fat mess right now, and it comes mostly from hard left policies and political correctness. That's where Sweden excels, the politicians in Sweden are not a slave to political correctness like the spoiled politicians we have. I think the Socialist think America is the one place Socialism will work.
cpm199 9 months ago
@Rofistim Are you sure you're a social democrat? Do you think we need to cut the budget much more than what the Reps and Dems agreed to on Friday night? I can't believe how much money our govt. is wasting, it's maddening. How are those on the left that criticized Bush for his spending, not criticizing Obama even more for his? I'm a Conservative Independent. I align more with Reps, but trust neither.
cpm199 9 months ago
@Rofistim Well stated, and I agree. I do think Social Security is a good thing, but it's being touted as something it wasn't supposed to be, and they have expanded benefits to people who have never paid in to it. I also believe that over regulation can be very bad too. I think the regulations Obama is putting on the energy industry through the EPA is destructive and deceitful, as I still believe that Climate Change is just a natural cycle of mother nature. We are now in a cooling cycle.
cpm199 9 months ago
@Rofistim One problem, they are both run by people and power corrupts. Neither system can operate as they are written on paper, because some one or some group always takes ultimate control and dictatorship, or totalitarian govt. reigns over the people to keep them in line. You CAN NOT have individual freedoms under either a Communist or a Socialist govt. They contradict themselves and can not coexist. Capitalism plays to the human nature to succeed and rewards hard work and ambition.
cpm199 9 months ago
Socialism is better thsn capitalism hands down
mangeloz 10 months ago 22
@mangeloz thats because you cannot make a living for yourself and you want Uncle Sam to pay for your whole life u leech.
ALLHOCKEY89 8 months ago
@mangeloz
"the democracy will ceast to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who will not"
-Thomas Jefferson
(He's refering to welfare.)
Salvysahagun 8 months ago
@Salvysahagun He also lived 200+ years ago, stop quoting him like he's a prophet. His statement makes sense according to his time. In the sense that the productive centers (workplaces/farms) should be in the hands of the people who work them, yeoman farmers and so on and not in feudal elites. Because in his time there was a conflict between feudalism and capitalism. Today it is capitalism and socialism. Also his statement is rather ironic because he was a slaveowner not really willing to work.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@ElNuevoChe93
Thats the thing bro.
Those men where the smartest group of indivisuals ever to unleashed into the humanity.
Capitalism is what made the modern world and most socialist countries would work where it not for capitalist innovations.
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun Regardless of how smart they were, They're theories are no longer relevant. Neo-liberal capitalism could only exist a long time ago, capitalism is based on the interests of the capitalist class against the interests of the working class. Being that the capitalist class is so outnumbered today, it has to appease the working class--hence welfare. Jefferson himself did not believe that his theories would be relevant a generation from his death. Hence every generation needs a rev
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@ElNuevoChe93
Wow your saying the founding fathers are irrelevent but the Marx is?
You have to realize Capitalism is not human nature its scientific nature.
When you breath oxygen you exchange out CO2
the food you eat is exchanged for more body mass.
or better yet the mire process of photosynthesis is an exchange of energy.
Evolution and the very existence of earth are mir transfers of resources in order to create a better product as is capitalism.
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun Marx developed a coherent theory for social evolution being materialism. Jefferson was relevant for his time, but even he did not believe that his ideology would be relevant today. Marx understood the past, and the relations of production. Also your Earth example doesn't make much sense. Trade has existed long before capitalism, going back to the first civilizations. Capitalism has evolved from feudalism and in turn becomes socialism as production increases.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@ElNuevoChe93 ]
Marx was NEVER relevant. and never will be.
Looks like you don't understand what capitalism is....
When the means of production is controlled by the private sector. it is the society that matches to freedom for the people.
any person can trade what ever they want to trade to who ever they want to trade to with out fear of a treyanical authority.
Thats the importance of limiting the power of GOV.
Power will always currupt
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun you said it: power corrupts. one half of my family works in the health insurance industry. the other other half, in defense-- pretty much as a consequence of where we went to school and where we live. i can tell you, without irony, that the government that some people fear is coming to take their 'liberties' from them has absolutely no teeth. there's no 'free market' here. the government is merely a subsidiary and marketer of and for these industries. we all just customers.
babyfran05 7 months ago
@Salvysahagun Also we socialists understand that capitalism makes the conditions for socialism. Read Capital by Marx and he'll state this. Feudalism also creates the conditions for capitalism. But that doesn't mean we should maintain feudalism. Everything is appropriate for its time. Capitalism only grows when it moves people from the peasantry to the industrial proletariat. It can no longer do this, therefore it is a system of the past. Socialism is best suited to the growth of us workers.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@mangeloz
It is. But, of course, neither will ever be implemented according to their exact definitions. As long as all scoietal sectors are treated on their own terms first and foremost, I'm happy. Socialism is better than capitalism in all forms, however.
Silverwire100 8 months ago
@mangeloz If your a broke ass who doesnt want to work
RebelliousPatriot 8 months ago
@mangeloz These are sad times when people simply seeking social democracy ask for socialism. The difference is huge. In asking for Sweden you shall receive North Korea
magicblanket 7 months ago
@magicblanket North Korea is neither socialist nor social democratic. Their leading class is a military super-structure. In socialism the working class controls the means of production, and they clearly don't in North Korea.
North Korea has abandoned Marxism.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@ElNuevoChe93
Still saying you'd choose Kim Il Sung, who started the country with a genuine workers' party, over what their is in america today?
magicblanket 7 months ago
@mangeloz Some what lacking in specific examples here.It sound like a feeling...
Pomiferous 6 months ago
@mangeloz socialism isn't socialism without capitolism.
Rhys17 5 months ago
@Rhys17 You can't get to Socialism without Capitalism first, but it is the oxymoron of Capitalism
MrLovethelife 5 months ago
@MrLovethelife Communism is the oxymoron or capitalism.
Rhys17 3 months ago
@Rhys17 Yea i kinda agree but i would say its worth pointing out that the way "Communism" has been practiced has always had some bad elements of Capitalism within it, whether its been USSR, Cuba, China etc
I argue that Libertarian Socialism must be attempted in order for Capitalism to be dismantled.
MrLovethelife 3 months ago
Secret??????
---Try the entire Democratic party
----All Liberals
---This fat guy reporting this story
---All union members
---and all the Russians who are still stuck in Russia
(that is, aside from the hard core Marists who don't want to be confused with those pansy socialists)
Zendout1 10 months ago
@Zendout1 Oh shut up. You are a traitor to American society. Union members are socialists? They just want a fair wage and you expect a government handout by taxing the poor. Democrats were the ones who started America. They were called the Federalists. This is not the Republicans country. It is our country. Democrats should be the ones to permanently lead this country. I am on the right side of this battle and Democrats will keep our country. GO OBAMA. Also, you have been reported.
syzygy500 9 months ago
@syzygy500
Unions have a right to be their.
But it's not the Governements job to fund them
Salvysahagun 7 months ago
You guys are so biased! Remember, Karl Marx the auther of the Communist Manifesto had not mentioned one word of Communism in his manifesto, he mentioned only socialism. You know, socialism as dreamed by Karl Mark.
stephenabm 10 months ago
It wasn't "17", it was "70", you ignorant oaf. Just because YOU embrace socialism and claim not to find fault with it, is no ringing endorsement to me.
757optim 10 months ago
@757optim You are a shrill little twerp and stupid too, since you admire nutbags like Bachmann. 17 or 70, it is only the feverish speculation of a paranoid fool like you.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@757optim Don't waste your time with idiotic drone Libs. They are so ignorant & set in their ways it is pointless to argue with them. Listening to the lying Turds sugar coat their Socialist beliefs. Wow, listening to Cenk as I type this, his bias and rhetoric is ridiculous. "I'm not interested in Bachus' list." He just essentially tried to imply that Conservatives are "dangerous" and "stupid". Excuse me??? What a manipulator. I have no doubt I'm on the "RIGHT" side on this battle. Let's Roll!
cpm199 10 months ago
@cpm199 ok cite with sources why you are in the RIGHT side of this.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte Well, your comment is a bit difficult to understand. Are you asking me why I believe I'm on the right side of the debate? I think that's what you're asking. My reason's are as follows.... Liberals in general want the govt. to help fund abortions, they want 16 year old girls to not have to tell their parents if they go get an abortion, they believe in bigger govt. to take care of the people, and they don't believe in capitalist principles, and Libs use racism as a crutch.
cpm199 9 months ago
@cpm199 My intent was to prevent yelling and name accusations. As for your statement, it is a gross overstatement. I highly doubt that most liberals want government to fund abortions, but rather have it as a legal option. The rest of your reasons are again generalization. I personally scared shitlist of federal medicine, but state-run. Sure. I just find it ironic that right disregard socialist services yet increase spending on the biggiest socialist complex in America, the military!
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte Well, I want abortion as a legal option! I don't want coat hanger abortions in alley's. I understand that different people have different situations and different beliefs and goals in life. I stated at the beginning that my comments were generally based. Amen! I'm all about Federalism. Let the states decide the policy for the citizens. If you want socialized healthcare, go to Mass. If you don't go to another state. That's how the founders planned it to be.
cpm199 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte Well, Libs attack the rich, I aspire to be one of the rich some day. It's our economic system that keeps that dream alive for ANYONE who works hard enough to attain it. Try that in China! I would be ok with some cuts to the military, but America needs a strong military, if we don't have a strong military who will be the worlds super power? China? Do you think China will do what's right when it comes to humanitarian needs in the world? They don't even do what's right in China!
cpm199 9 months ago
@cpm199 Well, it doesn't really. Without regulation only the lucky few get rich, while the rest live in hard-working serfdom. Besides it seems if your good at manupulating buisiness and people then you become rich. To me the hardworking blue collar and specialists deserve thier share too. Unfortunately, wealth seems to be accumlating at the top 1%. I hardly doubt that we need to be a superpower. Let us sort out our own problems first and let Europe better develope is military complex.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte No sir, don't believe that crap. You work hard enough, you can be wealthy, you just need to work hard at it, and you have to take RISKS! That's the problem, really. The wealthy that built their wealth from little to nothing did it because they were willing to risk their financial future to do so. Libs just want to take it all away. Hey man, I'm going to friend you, because I am going to pull some audio I heard yesterday and put it in a youtube vid, I want you to hear it.
cpm199 9 months ago
@cpm199 Its not about effort its about Buisiness and strategic risk. Its manupilating the marketing to your favour, and I can personaly tell you my mother, as a teacher worked her ass off for her kids but got little for it. Most of the weathly inherited it, or got with ridicoulous bonuses from big corporations. As you may know the economy expands communly, or as a whole. This cant be done with money saved at the top.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte But your mom didn't invest money into starting her own school, instead, she took a job at a school, therefore she automatically agreed to work on their terms. She could've started her own school, but chose not to because (I assume) it wasn't worth the risk of losing money.
Chaaarge 9 months ago
@Chaaarge No, as she didn't have the means too. Furthermore, it wasn't in her passion to earn the most money but to educate, but why because of that noble proffesion must she note be entitled to the security that the wealthy have in heathcare. As a person that started schools, he must manupilate the market to his advantage to earn a profit ie reduce costs, which obviously can led to unethical means. However, a state-run school runs a standard that provents private schools to dropping to such low
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte But it's possible to take loans from a bank to open up a school, if the school then provides good quallity education for a good price, then there will be costumers. Of course there's a risk in taking loans, but that's what business is about, taking risks. Or start smaller, and gradually build up the business. Of course the government has to make sure there's no fraud in the market, I'm not arguing that. btw, private school are usually of higher quallity than public schools
Chaaarge 9 months ago
@Chaaarge And always will be, but it is the public schools that set the standard as decided by the people of the state and gives education to those that would not before. Certainly she can do that if she had the colleteral to do so, but she doesnt, so there is no equal oppurtunity. But even so, profit is also made by cutting costs, and even under a regulated economy there are some ethical issues to that. Thats why we dont trust the protection of our people with private run police and fireman.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte and about the standards of living, you must also look at how fair our system is. It's not fair that someone who doesn't work makes money, when someone else does work and makes money. I personally voted for the moderates in sweden (yes, I'm swedish), who I think have been better for the economy than the social democrats, especially for the great work financial minister Borg and prime minister Reinfeldt have done during the financial crisis
Chaaarge 9 months ago
@Chaaarge Jag gjorde samma sak. Mona Sahlin är en fucking idiot. However, the moderates are advocaters of Social Democracy as well, but lean to a more libertarian approach. And I agree with you, Welfare as a mean of temporary security is fine, but as long term, no way. But even so, I would not deny them rights to socialized institutions such as healthcare and education.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte oh, in that case I agree with you on most things. Again, I do think most things should be run by the market, but there is room for some government run things, like the fire department, police etc... I just thought you ment the social democratic party, lol. and I agree that short term welfare can be beneficial. Maybe we just need some strict rules for it? (you have to be searching for a job you can do, you must take a job when offered one and so on...)
Chaaarge 9 months ago
@Chaaarge No haha, I wouldn't refer to a single Swedish policy on American politics. No, the red-green, I believe, have become too authoritarian, especially with the unions. As for welfare, I beleive you are put on for six months, unless you are an immigrant (grrr..jag vet att jag är en invandrare, men det e fortforande dum ), disabled, old etc. In that period if you dont seek either an education or a job you are dropped.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@Chaaarge Its once said that it takes a village to raise a child, and its from this that I believe that we need to have a great foundation of equal security and oppurtunity for us to flourish within a regulated capatilist market. Thus, balancing the need for individualism and socialism. It is this basis that has allowed Social Democracy to florish in Sweden, Norway, Australia and other countries where the standard of living is at its highest.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte if we look at this assuming the market is perfect, we can see that in order for a business owner to make money he must provide a product people will buy at a good price. If someone buys it, it means that he wants that product. so it's a win-win situation. So what's left to do is to make sure that the market is actually run that way, and this calls for anti-fraud rules, making sure there's no stealing etc.
Chaaarge 9 months ago
@Chaaarge But then that organisation to regulate those rules is a socialized institution. Even so there is no such thing as a perfect market, as monopolies can occur and wealth accumulates towards the minority, and yadada. However, capatilism advocates indvidualism, which is nice, but Sweden's wealth can also be attributed to the social base that has allowed to flourish.
AmericanskBlatte 9 months ago
@AmericanskBlatte Libs don't support individual responsibility like conservatives do. Libs don't trust corporations, but they fully trust their govt. for some reason. I don't trust either, but at least corporations provide jobs, fuel the economy and innovation, and large governments have a much worse human rights track record than large corporations could ever have. I can't think of any large corporations that have killed millions of people, yet Libs demonize corporations all the time.
cpm199 9 months ago
In Sweden we count the Liberals as Right-Wing. We choose to vote on the red side (Socialdemocrats, green party and Communists) or the blue side (Liberals, conservatists and capitalists)
GoodThingWithBirds 10 months ago
The price of being successful is screwing over the poor. Fuck capitalist.
carnypimp 11 months ago
You made me laugh. You said, "let's have a rational conversation." That was funny.
susanmarie8 11 months ago
Are you kids practicing Tea-Party-ism?
MrJizzinator 11 months ago
HA! What rules has the government made? I'm 17, and My government is not working to make life better for me or my family.What is wrong with socialism? Fuck the ridiculous the corrupt, money hungry, deregulated cooperation.
WE ARE THE NEW GENERATION! FUCK YOU OLD BASTERDS!
Badeshatube 11 months ago 23
@Badeshatube
LOL! Are you really this retarded? Everything is wrong with socialism! You have to pay more taxes in a socialist society because that money goes to all the welfare/lazy/homeless bums.
Bomber0907 11 months ago
@Badeshatube I agree dude, people call socialism and communism evil because people have been exposed by too much anti socialist/communist propaganda
uncleruckus714 9 months ago
@Badeshatube Your government's not working to make life better for you now, what makes you think it'll be better under socialism when they gain even more traction? What is a deregulated "cooperation"? You mean corporation? You act like this is some sort of shift in generation values... you do realize that there were a lot of socialists at the beginning of the 20th century, right? More than now. They were disillusioned with socialism, and I'm sure you will be too.
P.S. Bastards*
Trimbler00 9 months ago
@Trimbler00
"you do realize that there were a lot of socialists at the beginning of the 20th century, right?"
Where? ;p
And yes, it is a shift indeed in generational values. The Baby Boomers that came of age and wrecked this nation with the Regan Revolution have much to answer for, for their selfish, self-absorbed, grasping period of control.
Perhaps we should just wait until our current health system kills them all off.
Lodatzor 9 months ago
@Badeshatube WHAT! I am 24, and your a useful idiot! You want to live under socialism? Do you want everyone to be EQUALLY POOR? Socialism and communism has NEVER worked in the past, study your damn history man. You go live under socialism and I bet within a few months you'll be begging to come back to capitolism. Socialist want to take over the world man and make everyone equally POOR, while the ellites smoke cigars... Have fun, useful idiot....
justinadams33 8 months ago
@justinadams33 You misinterpret the phrase "useful idiot" by the way. Also I ask that you study your history and look for a single nation that has called itself "communist". I guarantee that you will find none. Also you make many ignorant statements about socialism. What did Russia look like before 1917. A heavily unindustrialized war torn feudal-monarchy. Post Stalin it was an industrial competitor to the US, had abolished homelessness, starvation, and had free healthcare and education.
ElNuevoChe93 7 months ago
@Badeshatube lol wow i forgot how stupid teenagers who think they know things about government are
irish4272 7 months ago
Who is this bozo on this video? If You idiots want Socialism Go move to Russia or China or N. Korea I am sure they would love to have you. here in America We both don't want You or will tolerate Your stupid failed ideas that is why a socialist, communist, progressive, liberal are insane they keep trying the same failed ideas over and over again. Their is a reason they call us the right is because we are Right in our beliefs, principles, and corps values. None of which you on the left have.
Viking22033 11 months ago
@Viking22033
All socialist/communist countries are corrupt and failures. Just look at North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, and China.
Bomber0907 11 months ago
@Bomber0907 Corruptions my friend exist in every country and every form of government. I am a 100% against communism because it is a total failure: Cuba, North Korea.
China and Russia have long ago decided to embraced the capitalistic system and that is why their economies are doing so well, they both below to the prestigious BRIC.
China is now the second biggest economy in the world after the US.
md991free 11 months ago
@Bomber0907 Hey bomb head, Russia isn't Communist anymore as well as there are corrupt countries of all stripes
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@Viking22033 Liberals my friend have embraced stem cell research, science, technology and the progress of humanity through higher education.
Keep caring about family values, religion and the bible.
md991free 11 months ago
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topcatprostituto 1 year ago
@ConquerAndDethrone Nothing is free.There is no free lunch.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Wrong, maybe not for you in the US but for us in Europe there are plenty of handouts. People are getting paid by the governments for children & other things. Your socialist fear is laughable believing every country outside the US is socialist & below you. Anyway I don`t care what americans thinks it matters nothing to me
ConquerAndDethrone 1 year ago
@ConquerAndDethrone You are getting a hand out and losing your manhood and your soul. Not a good trade off.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ConquerAndDethrone That is such B.S. There isn't a limited amount of wealth. Wealth can be created in a free, capitalist society. The Marxist know nothing about the economy. Hey, the Soviet Union called, they want their propaganda back.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 It`s not possible to go on & on endlessly creating wealth there has got to be a roof but americans don`t seem to grasp that. It`s only very few that gets truly rich in a capitalist economy such as the US such claims are just lies & hype.
ConquerAndDethrone 1 year ago
@ConquerAndDethrone Sorry your wrong and socialism is wrong. There are always ways to generate new wealth. Like a new oil field discovery. The day the oil is discovered the wealth grows. Each time a new industry is invented wealth grows. There is no cap. Was there a cap in 1800? How about 1900, or 2000. There is no cap because there will always be inventions and discoveries. That is unless we become socialist slaves to the State.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 So the answer is to keep finding an oil field - which of course happens every day in America. Though of course these oil fields happen to be other people's countries.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid We have the biggest oil field in the world right here. We will vote these anti Americans out soon, vote pro Americans in and start renewing our country.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 The world's biggest oil field is in Gharwar in Saudi Arabia, not in America you twat!
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US reserves by 10x
America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid ted supply irrelevant.
In the next 30 days the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) will release a new report giving an accurate resource assessment of the Bakken Oil Formation that covers North Dakota and portions of South Dakota and Montana. With new horizontal drilling technology it is believed that from 175 to 500 billion barrels of recoverable oil are held in this 200,000 square mile reserve that was initially
ThePackers123 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
discovered in 1951. The USGS did an initial study back in 1999 that estimated 400 billion recoverable barrels were present but with prices bottoming out at $10 a barrel back then the report was dismissed because of the higher cost of horizontal drilling techniques that would be needed, estimated at $20-$40 a barrel.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
Respond to this video... rel.
It was not until 2007, when EOG Resources of Texas started a frenzy when they drilled a single well in Parshal N.D. that is expected to yield 700,000 barrels of oil that real excitement and money started to flow in North Dakota. Marathon Oil is investing $1.5 billion and drilling 300 new wells in what is expected to be one of the greatest booms in Oil discovery since Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1938.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Propping up weird hostile mideast countries (saudi, kuwait & some others) is totally on your account & your mistake & you need to stop it asap. I don`t see anything good with propping up a bunch of fucking hostile religious fanatical crazies, just idiotic.
ConquerAndDethrone 1 year ago
@ConquerAndDethrone We have propped up Europe for quite some time also. We shouldn't have done that either. They are ungrateful.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 youve propped up Europe? with what - America is pennyless, in fact they owe many trillion pennies.
liambrawley 1 year ago
@liambrawley We have been carrying you Bacon since ww2 ingrate.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 So the great depression that was Americas' fault and devastated the world is what i should be greatful for? And I think youll find that America didnt help out in WW2 until they were attacked in 1941. So gee thanks for all your help there, awfully nice. And I think youll find that Britain bailed America out of the great depression and only paid Britain back recently. So ive got nothing to be greatful for really. Just waiting till my tax money pays America out of another depression
liambrawley 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Well well done for cutting and pasting stuff off a random unofficial site. Anyway my exchange with you over this thread is getting rather tedious and I've entertained you a lot longer than any woman would without her asking for payment, so let's just say we'll agree to disagree.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid Believe me the pleasure was not mine.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 But if you invent something new it usually takes wealth away from another sector - if you invent the TV, there's less wealth spent in the cinema. If you invent the internet there's less advertising wealth spent on the TV. If you invent a plane, people holiday abroad which helps overseas resorts and a domestic resorts suffer a loss.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid No, that isn't true. That isn't true at all. If that were true economies would not grow.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Like in the industrial revolution, if you invent new means of production the owner of the means of production takes the wealth from the artisans and the skilled tradespeople, as mentioned by Marx in Das Kapital - which you've claimed to have read many times. And Marx being a student of economics means his grasp of this is far better than yours.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid Marx was and isiot. And his thoughts are still idiotic.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@upabittoolate You have no idea what America is all about. Do not get your idea of America from MTV or movies because it is the farthest thing from what life in the U.S. is all about. You Tube high school football or things like that to see what America is really about.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 I never watch MTV or Hollywood Movies - your popular culture is a pile of wank. When I look at your country on an atlas it merely looks like it's in the shape of a great big fat arse. I'm glad god stuck an ocean between us and the yanks. He probably made the US land on the moon first in the hope they'd all fuck off there and leave the world in peace.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid It is sad really. You are like the jealous kid that looks at the great athlete and wishes he could be like them but alas you can't because you have no athletic ability and you are too much of a puss to play a real sport like Football. So you sit and simmer and call names behind the good looking great athletes back because that somehow should make you feel better. But it doesn't. So you get mad and bitter and you hate the perfect guy. Kinda like the reason you hate us.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 I think you'll find China is fitter and better looking economy than you now dear boy. In fact if we remove the metaphor and talk literally almost anyone is fitter and better looking than your average American. With regard to 'football' I think you'll find most women of the world would rather spend a night with David Beckham or Cristiano Ronaldo than any American 'Footballer', whose names us in the rest of the world neither know, or care about.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid Who is David Beckham?
UK Obesity Statistics
Trends in Overweight and Obesity
About 46% of men in England and 32% of women are overweight (a body mass index of 25-30 kg/m2), and an additional 17% of men and 21% of women are obese (a body mass index of more than 30 kg/m2 ).
Overweight and obesity increase with age. About 28% of men and 27% of women aged 16-24 are overweight or obese but 76% of men and 68% of women aged 55-64 are overweight or obese.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Pretty much anywhere other than the USA everyone knows the answer to who Beckham is. Most people can't recognise any NFL players though. BTW American Football is a commie sport. It has a wage cap, all the shit teams get first pick of the new players and the NFL deals with all the players contracts (big state). Also American Footballers are lazy - they work about 17 weeks of the year and play 1 game a week. Footballers play 2 a week and with a world cup the season lasts 11 months.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid Nope sorry Beckham, not ringing a bell. Is he or she an actor?
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Got any stats for American obesity, that should be interesting.
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@jackwilshiresfakeid Well obesity in America is a new phenomenon. About 17 years ago under the Clinton administration they made fat a disability. Then they started political correctness and brainwashed people into not telling fat people they were fat and to lose weight. I am just as sad to see the fatty's but guess what. There isn't as many as they try to portray. But I have seen your gross BBC show where the skinny Brit smells peoples poo. They are not so skinny.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 I think you'll find that's not on the BBC, that's on a commercial station
jackwilshiresfakeid 1 year ago
@cary123 So you will steal the means of production from the current owners? And that is o.k. with you?
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 The current owners are illegitimate, they get there money via exploiting there workers. How do they continue to buy means of production? By exploiting workers out of there surplus labor. The workers are the rightful owners of the means of production.
This same argument was used by slave owners, "So your going to steal MY slaves, MY property!?!".
cary123 1 year ago
@cary123 Exploiting. Paying them for their labor is exploiting. So when the workers own the factories they will be exploiting themselves? So stupid. Exploiting. It isn't the workers that are risking everything getting a business going and running a business. They sure did a great job in the Soviet Union. Oh wait. No they didn't they failed. I am sure the workers in China are very happy not getting exploited as they make 3 dollars a day and live in 10 x 10 hovels. Communism is tyranny.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 There not payed the FULL value of there labor. They wont, because they will pay themselfs the full value of there labor.
The Soviet Union was socialist in name only after 1922.
Just because were exploited less does not mean were not exploited. By the way, China is capitalist.
cary123 1 year ago
@cary123 If they agree to a price that is the full value. What is the full value? Have you ever ran a business? What makes you think you are entitled to the owners profit. Is the owner twisting your arm and forcing you to work for them. If you think you are worth more why don't you start a company of your own. If you did, if you ran your own business and took your own risk you would change your tune quick.
It is funny how every failed commie state wasn't really communist. Sure they weren't.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 The total profit of the sale of the product. Because he didnt create the product. I have helped run a business in the past actually.
First of all. SOCIALIST STATE. Now, there were many, Paris Commune, Anarchist Spain/Ukraine(Although not a state technically), Pre-1922 Soviet Union, and some early Kubbitiz's.
Yes I have grown up in a bourgeois family, so what? By the way, when you were very young did you work for whatever? When you were 2?
cary123 1 year ago
@cary123 If I have an idea and I raise capital and I build a factory and I hire a crew and I produce a product. How didn't I create the product. I knew you grew up wealthy because you have no dreams. You grew up at the top with no wants so you need to find meaning so why not help the oppressed poor except people who grow up poor do not feel oppressed or poor. Most feel rich. Rich in family and dreams. Dreams about how we are going to make it.. Communism isn't the answer. Love is.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Most of the repayment for the factory will be threw exploitation of the surplus labor of proletariat. So because the workers paid for it in de facto, its there collective property.
The surplus labor that goes to the bourgeois is much bigger then the payment for factory repairs and stuff.
I am not concerned with the consumer, I am concerned with the worker, besides in communism money nolonger exists, so none of this will matter.
cary123 1 year ago
@cary123 you don't care about the consumer? Isn't the consumer also a worker somewhere else? How does money not exist. How do you purchase supplies? Through trade? If through trade then doesn't everything become a commodity which means everything is money? You would be surprised how slim the profit margin is in a business.
ThePackers123 1 year ago
@ThePackers123 Consumers dont drive history, Class struggle does.
In communism, were there are ample resources, its simply a gift economy people take and people give in the free exchange of goods, were there are not, the goods are rationed out according to how many hours you have worked.
Its still a profit margin.
cary123 1 year ago