Crash Course: Chapter 17c - Energy and the Economy by Chris Martenson

[bayleybomber]

bullenchris18 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure

[bayleybomber]

thepfcboxs. Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves,  And the rulers take counsel together,

.our leaders are very much weak

[ChingChongCification]

stop using peter schittt quotes...please!!!

[torque302]

A-1 Within present model, 2nd order non-linear f(x) = y^2 is impossible. Energy + mass = Life Obviously intelligence is energy. Where there is a will there is a way Energy production is important. Energy consumption is more important. Camp Pendleton LED lights = -60% electricity reduction Western bank leverage on crude fulcrum and housing must unwind Ex: NYC over-priced real property price credit marker Rotate into new resources, resource efficiencies Trend is your friend works

[boundtogetdown]

6:20 it doent take a scientist to tell where all that delicious bio-matter has seeped into the porous rock

[KrunchyJD]

I am not sure that energy use equates to the economy that strictly. An example is Denmark. Denmark has an average standard of living higher then the US, but they consume less energy per person. One of the reasons is that a large percentage of travel is via bicycle, or walking, which are less energy intensive and more efficient modes of travel then car driving. One of the solutions is to waste less energy thereby creating more surplus energy.

[TWSceptic]

@KrunchyJD Don't forget, US has bigger distances to travel. Also the economy is structured differently. It's just not that simple.

[ThePFCBox]

I kept seeing all your other videos and understand more about your position and the meaning of "fake"money-economy-energy, etc... I also knows that plastics are from oil but is the leadership that is weak. The Perkins Plan presented solutions BUT the Government, Demo & Reps, do not want to listen to solutions. The signals points toward another feudal times... when city-kingdoms survived in a closed socio-economy system.

[ThePFCBox]

Your predictions are truth if you look from the current perspective but your vision of the future is incorrect because oil will not last longer and other energy sources are already here for the ones that understand the benefits of it; like electric cars.

[ThePFCBox]

There are other energy sources to substitute the oil as the new "Bateries Cells" that are able to change water into hydrogen and are 10 times more powerful than oil. Years ago the electrical plants were move with water falls, now we have the nukes and people are afraid of it... (with some reasons) BUT in general we DO NOT NEED fossil fuels any more if we need to get out of this oil dependent economy.

[touchtheearthlightly]

@ThePFCBox

BTW - Batteries hold only the energy you put in. Chris also notes that Hydrogen from water although neat and clean is another (although hi tech) battery since it takes at least as much energy to get hydrogen out of the water molecule. If not = perpetual motion which is unlikely.

[ThePFCBox]

That is why we should go to an economy that do not depends on "oil" but in "FREE" solar energy... then ALL your theory have NO meaning at all.

[xdocek]

@ThePFCBox

It would be nice, but you simply cannot replace oil with solar because of many reasons:

1. we can't make things (goods, chemicals, pharmacy,...) of sunshine

2. we can't produce that much energy from solar/wind as oil actually provides

3. even if so, many things can't run on electric energy instead of oil (planes, ships, construction & agriculture machines..)

True,for near future, solar( ~electricity in general) might help to reduce oil consumption mainly in personal transport (cars)

[modok1313]

@ThePFCBox lol where you gonna build thease solar fields and where will u get the enegery and material to make the pannels.. more than 95% of all land would have to be covered in solar pannels.. this is crazy and if you think it is even possable your just as crazy

[syprix]

We need to use what energy we have left to go into outer-space and find more oil. While the rest stay here and discover a way to harness the power antimatter. :)

[managarm1349]

The only way to get out of this mess is technology...atomic fusion or something because wind solar geo will never ever ever be able to replace oil...

[GeoffreyRahl]

@managarm1349 The problee is even if we mastered nuclear fusion tomorrow morning we'd have to include lead time in the deal. That is the time we'd need to build and replace every infrastructure, and make sure they're safe to exploit and by that time even if we had the money and ressources it will be too late. It takes as much as 10 years beteen the time a nuclear power plant is being built and the moment it produces  power to our homes.

[airharm]

Good Job Chris.

[1776independent]

As James Howard Kunstler puts it: "America took all of its post-war wealth and invested it in a living arrangement that has no future: suburbia."

[zonsb]

Preserving the status quo means preserving the problem. Thus ensuring the destruction of the status quo. What alternatives are there?

What is the problem that is embedded in the certain to self destruct status quo? If you know the all too obvious problem that is hidden in plain sight you will readily see the Ultimate Solution.

[zonsb]

"Naturally the common people dont want war. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and its always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." -- Hermann Goering, Hitler's man.

[zonsb]

The privately owned Federal Reserve central bank was created in 1913. The UK already had a central bank for over a hundred years. It was not a coincidence that the Federal Reserve was created a couple decades after the oil drilling business was created.

Governments and the wars they create are the most profitable ventures for international bankers loaning money they create out of thin air. Almost as profitable as the military industrial complex corporations they own or control.

[lwanatt]

"When women dress like men and trousers wear, and cut off all their locks of hair, When pictures look alive with movements free, When ships like fishes swim beneath the sea. When men outstripping birds can soar the sky, Then half the world, deep drenched in blood, shall die...." -Mother Shipton

[juanleiden]

its obvious that there's overpopulation.

we've based our consumption patterns in order to that easy oil.

now it will adjust by force, the last financial crisis, irak, global warming and that kind of stuff together have a LOT of sense.

population will adjust just like prices, i think that there will be two worlds..one advanced, mantaining this consumption and a whoole one living like the prehistoryc age, in total anarchy or almost.

darwin's,marx and smith theories at the same time!!!!!!

[lwanatt]

War will come soon, and most humans will die. Likely us included.

[kikrlbs]

We'll see how much trust everyone has in god when they're starving to death. The earth needs to cleanse itself of the human parasite.

[Frostlander]

The only help god will give you is psychological comfort. One needs to place ones work and or faith in practical proven solutions to the problems that may be causing the psychological discomfort you may be feeling now, or may be feeling later.

[bullenchris18]

what about in the last three years we have found 100 years of natual gas inthe baca oil field so in brazil and america the north part of america we have 3 hundred years of energy also nuclear energy if we were to power our factorys houses an use natual gas an oil and trust in GOD we need to start depending on GOD so our kids stop killing each other an put GOD back in our lives an stop borrowing GOD will start blessing us again

[sjuurd]

Chris, don't thrust in God. Thrust logical reasoning.

[TWSceptic]

@sjuurd Trust, not 'thrust'. But I agree with the content of the message.

[mariocr666]

@bullenchris18 who the hell cares about your God??? where is he?! i cant see him! thrust your eyes and logic, not fairy tales meant to manipulate the mass..

[TEHREALBOB]

This chapter is my favorite. It shows the real connection between societies and energy. I have a feeling that is civilization does collapse, when it makes it's comeback energy research will be all vital.

[dcmantommy]

Excellent work yet again Chris. Thank you for delivering!

[managarm1349]

logical assumptions...good part

[Boonorp]

Brilliant video! thx man

[ryeb00]

yep, we aren't letting go of iraq any time soon...

[freedomfighterone]

There are no limited resources. But there is limited monies to buy the resources needed. The scarcity that exist has been artificially created by the elite so they can maximize profits.

[drewmandan]

So, in your mind, the problem would be solved by printing enough money so that everyone is a millionaire?

[freedomfighterone]

No, the problem would be solved by living in a world where no money is needed.

[drewmandan]

Explain. How is labor and capital allocated? What about usury? What role does property play? For instance, are you suggesting that people should be able to take picnics on my front lawn without asking me first? If not, who decides who gets what?

[D1rtn4p]

You have it all backwards. There is DEFINITELY a limit on resources, unless you don't believe in the physical laws of conservation of matter and energy. Money (explicitly, fiat currency) is what there is no limit to, as it can be created from nothing.

I do agree, however, that artifical scarcity is created in many situations to maximize profit, but in the end, the hard limit is still the fact that fossil fuels are not infinitely abundant, but we have treated them as such.

[freedomfighterone]

No, we have the technology and there is currently no limit on the resources that we need to survive. You could add another 20 billion people on this planet, and you would still enough resources. The problem is that there is a tremendous waste of resources that helps create artificial scarcity. Money allocation, where a few people have billions of dollars that they didn't work for, is causing much suffering in the world. Selfishness and greed is a problem.

[D1rtn4p]

I agree that huge class disparity is a huge problem, causing much of the world's suffering, but you are showing a lack of understanding of basic physical principles when you say we can support 26 billion people on this planet.

Depending on how interested you are in this, take some time and run some numbers in Matlab, just using some simple resource allocation models. You find very quickly that at our current rate of consumption, we are already beyond a sustainable capacity.

[D1rtn4p]

Now, if people are willing to drastically reduce their standards of living, our current population has a small chance of being sustainable, but in a post-fossil fuel world, we would need to divert nearly all of the harvested wind a solar energy to the production and transportation of food resources.

Keep in mind there are people who study these scenarios for a living, and are very good at it, and most of them disagree with your opinion about resource allocation. Money is not the only problem.

[freedomfighterone]

The only reason why there is scarcity is because of the corrupt monetary system we are living under. Do away that system and with the technology that we have today, there is enough resouces for every human being. Right now, only a few people are consuming and wasting most of the resouces being produced. Selfishness and greed is the problem.

[wellsleythewizard]

I don't know why this comment has been "thumbed down", its entirely true! The Dollar only has power because we continue to BELIEVE in it! stop the belief now and we can change the entire system! we just need every person to do so... ...good luck...

[orbenn]

@wellsleythewizard

First, getting everyone to agree is laughable. Further getting everyone to act on that agreement is even more laughable. Last, the "status quo" isn't perfect but it's a lot better than crashing the entire system into the depression that a crashing Dollar would create. You don't fix an old car by driving it off the road into a tree.

[kesbetik]

The main point in ur view is the current rate of consumption. But, since consumption is artificially inflated as well, (just think of adverts, salesmen, too big meals at fast food places, making unnecessary products like fizzy drinks and orange juice etc. and keeping in mind that we do not use our technology to the maximum. 26 billion could be done, but you know, I agree it is not sustainable, at least not with the mentality and dumbed down society. A new generation might be able to pull it off

[lwanatt]

food for thought, if we were willing to shed our bodies and go down to brains, we could artificially simulate infinite wealth while consuming not a single percent more than is necessary for survival, making the true population cap somewhere around 200billion, with dedicated world wide effort i bet we could be out of our bodies in less than a decade

[freedomfighterone]

Also, there is enough solar and geothermal energy to provide for all of our energy needs. We need to stop using fossil fuels as they pollute the environment and hold us as slaves to the oil companies that are owned by the criminal bankers.

[nicholeddy29]

what in the world is going to happen to the homeless and really poor people, what? are they going to die? from hunger?

[slash3rr]

@nicholeddy29 if absolutely nothing is done the excess population will die. Thats 5billion. This is of course not so realistic becasue some things will be done. You can see it like this: if not much is done , people who rely on oil and economics will die.

It can also be that there will come war (america vs china/russia) I dont know where europe would stand on this.

Lets just hope that the people wake up and start investing in green energy, local foods and stop wasting energy.

[omega790]

@nicholeddy29 yes, they will likely die of starvation. along with many, many people who aren't homeless or poor.

[Freethinker9110]

You guys might all think I'm crazy when I say this, but I honestly feel that his argument on social complexity being lost might be too much for Western society, and cause it to fall into barbarity. For that reason, to avoid this there might be a clash over the final barrels of oil by many nations. I just came to this conclusion even more strongly by watching this series. Any ideas on what anyone else thinks? This is really just my opinion.

[FranceParisian]

Well, that is likely to happen of course and lets hope it won't happen since man has always been innovative. The resources we have now should really be used to encourage INNOVATION to develop a new ENERGY which effect will be that of the changes that brought about by the development of the typewritter, computer or even the the discovery of fire and tools in the bronze age (correct me if am wrong on the time frame). The answer is all over us and we are just complacent to think about that answer.

[FranceParisian]

This is already happening! Why do you think a Spam in US cost 1 dollar some months ago now cost 4 dollars?

Think about it

[snakecharmer133]

CRB has been used many times in history, it always goes the same way. The roman empire collapsed 33 AD from a collapse mimicking the coming one. It took the Roman empire some time to fall though

[drewmandan]

This is true, however the cycles of history are faster now. Rome took, conservatively, 500 years to go from a primitive tribal society to its imperial peak. The US took about 150 years to make a similar transition, and Soviet Russia went from its baseline in 1917 to its peak of power within about 60-70 years. This suggests that today's superpowers may take decades, not centuries, to collapse.

[FranceParisian]

China next?

[drewmandan]

I think China will be the next economic superpower, until probably some time mid-21st century. As for who replaces China, the future is too murky to say. The Dark Side clouds everything.

[FranceParisian]

How about the Domino effect? Meaning: Dollar collapses in 2009 by September, then the world follows. First, Europe, then Asia.

Again the recovery could be a domino effect too. Meaning: USA recovers first, then Europe then Asia

However, China emerges to be in competition with the US as Superpower.

Let me know what you think!

[drewmandan]

That would have happened back in the 40s or 50s, but now the situation is quite different. The US is now the deadbeat that can't pay anyone their debts. If the USD collapses, China and India would suffer a very short (like months) recession and then explode as they lose ties to the country that's been holding everyone back (the US).

[FranceParisian]

Hey thanks,

Have you seen the video documentary called Money Masters?

It is really interesting extremely informative and outright educational.

It is on YouTube and also in my playlist. Have a look

[drewmandan]

Seen it. You should watch some of Stefbot's videos.

[FranceParisian]

right, thanks and i've seen one video so far, I am not an expert but he sound a bit amateurish and does not seem to convey a holistic world view rather it sounds very regional.

I am basing this comment on his (Stefbot) one video only in the series and my thought process is the recent world event and past in connection with financial base which he mentioned. I do think he needs to read the books of Gill, Bates, Piper, Woods Jr, Schiff, Black, Williams, Freedman, etc to add important perspective

[drewmandan]

Stephan Molyneux is not an economist; he's a philosopher. So naturally he's going to give the philosophical perspective. For example, Schiff talks about the mechanism by which inflation ruins the economy, and Stef would talk more about why inflation is morally wrong. It's just a different perspective on the same problems.

[CougarsRock]

I would ignore RogerOnTheRight. He will just waste your time and energy. It is okay for him to have his beliefs but if yours are different from his, don't waste your energy on him. Millions of people need to get this information and it is much more productive reaching people who are ready and open for the message.

This is nothing personal against the guy, it is just a matter of being productive with your precious time and resources.

[RogerOnTheRight]

By all means, be productive. But whose precious time and resources?

Obama's?

The collective's?

[RogerOnTheRight]

Energy is not scarce at all. We keep finding ever more oil, so the event horizon for depletion keeps moving away from us.

Also, he fails to recognize innovation and substitution as factors for growth. The economy is not fixed in space, nor are our resources fixed.

Crude oil has been around forever, but got used only when we started running low on whales.

What about nuclear energy? It is still there, waiting to be used.

Innovation. Do not discount it.

[Zoiros85]

Start from the beginning of the series. He has adressed every one of your points.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Jeez, you want to punish me, eh?

[alltherestaretaken]

The fact that you approach it as punishment says a lot of the mindset you are beginning with.

It's obvious from your posts that you have neither done research on the subject nor that you understand that resources are limited.

I think it comes from your inability to understand exponential functions.

Your society and world outlook is crashing; look around you.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Well, I have spent many years studying Economics, formally and informally. From the outset I began to notice gross errors in this guy's underlying assumptions. I really don't feel inclined to take his entire thesis apart, since I recognize much of it as previously studied and rejected material.

Now, you want to characterize my rejection as laziness, or a limited viewpoint.

Tell you what, go read the entire works of Marx and Hegel, then read F. Hayek and Milton Frieman, then we can chat.

[CougarsRock]

I have a BA in Accounting and an MBA. I've studied economics as well. Neo-classical economic "theories" have so many holes it is ridiculous. Their fundamental assumptions (i.e. homo economis, perfect information, etc.) don't hold up so how is a theory built on false beliefs and assumptions supposed to hold up in a complex world?

Just to show you how wrong they can be, didn't Friedman just go before Congress and say "Oops, sorry about the economic crash, I didn't know .....".

[RogerOnTheRight]

Of course we don't have perfect information. Which is precisely why government fails when it tries to manage an economy. Markets have amazing insight, being the collected knowledge of many.

But, humans certainly do act in their own self interest, which is why economic incentives affect behaviour. And which is why the best "stimulus" right now would be across-the-board cuts in income and capital gains taxes.

Take a peek at "rational expectations", then consider revising your thoughts.

[CougarsRock]

You are delusional and an ideologue. The perfect free market would be a black market with no rules. Is that what you want?

Sorry, but we've been living through 5,000 years of EMPIRE and the mindsets that go with that. Humans have a 1,000,000 year history and are hard wired for generosity, caring and community.

The concepts of domination, control, hierarchy will eventually pass away as unpleasant and unsustainable mindsets.

Time to usher in a new paradigm.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Of course markets are never truly free. It's just that human nature is immutable. I would think after all these thousands of years of history, one might realize the futility of attempting to engineer humans.

That said, the antidote for less-than-completely-free is certainly not even less freedom. Totalitarianism and socialism go hand in hand, and their history is rather sordid.

So, what is this swell new paradigm you offer?

[Rodrigoandnietzsche]

The paradigm we've been living under has had the chance to rule ever since WWII ended. Don't blame us for being a little sceptical

[RogerOnTheRight]

We have witnessed the greatest expansion of wealth on the planet since the inception of humans. Is this unacceptable?

Even the "poor" are relatively wealthy, except where socialism has been attempted.

Freedom works, don't you think?

[surgednb]

Oil has NOT been around forever. Oil is a product of the decomposition of organic material (namely the dinosaurs) over several million years. You should probably look up oil in a reliable source, i.e. not Wikipedia.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Crude oil certainly predates human existence.

So, "forever" may not be literally true, but then it might as well be.

[CougarsRock]

Resources are fixed. The planet is finite.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Not really. We get new energy from the Sun, constantly. Nothing in this universe is truly "fixed".

And, our single most critical resource in economic development is human innovation. Which is not fixed at all.

[RogerOnTheRight]

I'm afraid this guy is dead wrong in many respects. The population "bomb" did not happen, and it now looks like global population will level off around mid century. Our biggest issue is not too many people, but too few in the future.

[tanibooboo]

A: How many people will be on earth when population levels off?

B: Will this future population have increasing demands on natural resources?

[RogerOnTheRight]

I have no idea. If our pharmaceutical industry gets hit hard by Obama, all bets are off on longevity.

Last estimates I read, from UN numbers, put the total around 11 billion or so.

Whatever happens, we will either make great productive use of technology or we shall suffer greatly.

[bluzy25]

not default hyperinflation.

[FranceParisian]

HOW ABOUT MALHYPERINFLATION

[bluzy25]

They say that hyperinflation will help pay back the debt borrowed and debt will vanish. Is this possible?

[GULRUDJ]

I don't who said that, but yes, defaulting removes debt from your life.

[tradergee1]

Yes when you borrow money at a certain value and you can devalue that currency, you can repay the debt at a lower value or render the currency worthless thereby eliminating the debt. and that's exactly the plan. Buy Silver! and see my vids.