Yes the delusion has oftenly shown itself in theists but hehe aaron thinks he's an apologetic and thus he thinks he can make it look like there is no possibility for theists to suffer delusion because of their strong conviction.
What really strikes me is the contrast between the humility of aaronk1994, his constant searching for truth, and the strutting arrogance of Shwanerd, his cocky 'I know it all' attitude. Shwanerd mocks the dogmatism of others while overlooking his own, chronic, dogmatism. And I'm not a Christian btw, my theism takes a different form, but even so, I respect aaronk1994 for his humility and intellectual integrity.
It's sad really. Krensharpaw this is a useless debate. He will never see any other side than his own because its all he has to hold onto in life. isn't that a sad story.
And he sucks at debating anyways. he never even reads comments we make he just repeats what he has said over and over again
There are apparently a number of treatments. A number of anti-psychotics are usually applied. I suppose it would be interesting to do a study where believers in God are treated for delusional disorder. If their belief in God diminished then I suppose it would stregthen your case. I would volunteer to take part in such a study.
A medical doctor would likely prescribe a healthy dose of REALITY. Clearly you have not dared try this. BTW, i read the entire bible and became an atheist :-) Dare you read it from cover to cover?
Thank you accepting part two as a video response. I would now like you to deal with what I have said those videos please ShwaNerd, especially what I have said about the seventh indicator from Munro's book. What I said there utterly destroys everything you tried to argue in this video.
A "true"psychiatirc delusion defies the group. I will give an example. If there is an Amazon tribe that all speaks to frogs, no ne in this tribe is having a delusion. If one of their members start talking to pythons whne the whole group does not, he is having a delusion or pyschiatric break. Delusions and pyschiatric breaks are defined by the group not the individual.
You are both very ridiculous. I am not sure either of your arguments are anywhere near legitimate. Although You saying Christianity is a "delusional disorder" is a huge leap.
You cannot make statements such as that without sound proof.
On a side note comment, not meant to be taken seriously; Christianity and other beliefs in invisible entities or gods would be more specifically a mixture of erotomania and grandiose.
Erotomania being someone with a delusional disorder who believes that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with him or her. Said someones may attempt to contact the object of the delusion.
Grandiose would be a person that has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. Said person might believe he or she has a great talent or has made an important discovery. Exactly how many Christians act.
The thing is, ShwaNerd didn't say "Christians". He said "theists". A theist is anyone who believes in a personal God. That would include Jews, Muslims, Sikhs and a whole load of people who believe in God but who are not religious. Psychology deals with individuals, not groups. You can't apply it to broad, highly debatable concepts like theism.
Erotimanian refers to imaging that someone has a physical/ romantic attraction to you. God is believed to love His people, and the analogy of a wedding is used, but the concept isn't quite the same. God has no sexual feelings towards any being.
Gradiose: an inflated sense of self worth, power, knowledge, identity, or belief in a special relationship to a famous person. I suppse the last point might apply but Christian theology does not encorage gradiose perceptions. Quite the opposite, the Christian is to be humble and acknowledge their smallness when compared to God. They are to recognise they are a sinner, saved only by God's grace, and that without God they are nothing. That doesn't sound very gradiose to me.
That ShwaNerd was applying these criteria to groups and concepts when they are supposed to be applied to individuals is very significant. In order to prove that a particular belief held by someone is indicative of them having a mental illness, you have to rule out the possibility of them picking up the belief from their culture of sub-cultural. If the belief is part of their culture, then that would be the source of their belief, not a mind disorder.
Of course, declaring that people who believe in God are mentally ill just assumes atheism. Why don't we just dismiss anyone who holds a belief or idea we don't agree with as having a mental illness. It would save sn awful lot of time. No need to engage them and debate their ideas, just lock them up:).
Go one page over on the comments and reread the ones i posted about two weeks ago. I am well aware of what gradiose and EROTOMANIA are. (Your spelling ability is lacking in such complex words) Thanks.
Let me educate a little further on erotomania. It doesn't always involve "sexual" feelings.
and believing that an entity which is omniscient and "all-powerful" loves you in any kind of way is a bit delusional.
By the way, you missed the point before regarding when I pointed out that psychology deals with individuals, not groups. Point 7 of the criteria cited in Munroe states:
"The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background. "
If a certain belief is part of the culture then that is the source of the belief, not a disorder of the mind.
And he totally missed the point of what I was saying. If a belief is held by the culture, then that is most likely the source of the belief, not a disorder in the person's brain. Also, even if the belief is a minority position it wouldn't prove it is caused by a mind disorder. Are you going to say that all minority beliefs and convictions within a given society are the result of a mind disorder?
Also, no I wouldn't. YOur doing it again, taking something to far and missing the point, rewatch the videos plz before you put your foot in your outh plz.
When I said he didn't address it, I meant of course that he didn't do so successfully or well. Even you should have been able to figure out what I meant there.
How am I taking something too far and missing the point?
Yet you did not put that down. Next time, put down what you mean. Also, of course you would say that, as you still say that about my videos telling how you did logical fallcies wrong.
Because your claiming something he addressed and used a good example. IF you think he did a bad job, then how did you do a good job?
Yes, I will spell it all out for you and perhaps even include the odd diagram:).
That first sentence doesn't make sense in the second paragraph doesn't make sense, so I can't address it. My point is that if a belief is part of the culture, then that would account for an individual's belief. True delusions caused by delusional disorder are not part of the individual's culture. Then you may have a basis for supposing that a mind disorder is the cause of the person believing as they do.
In the video he basically says that certain religious beliefs are not held to be delusional because there are a number of people who believe in them. That's missing the point. The source of their belief would be the culture, not a mind disorder. That's why the seventh indicator rules out religious beliefs such as those held by Christians. I don't know why he (and you) can't understand that.
II did watch the video. In fact I watched it through a few times.
If it's part of the culture, how would you go about proving it is caused by a mind disorder and not what the person has been taught?
That comes back to what I said about applying such reasoning to other beliefs. Are minority opinions necessarily caused by mind disorders? You have agreed that they are not.
I said no, unless you can prove that they are. But it seems rather crazy to try to apply it to, ALL minority opinions, as what you do, A LOT.
This is why I said you take things, WAY to far.
Also, even if they are taught it, it could have come from someone who was, meantally ill. As in, if a person believed bathing in the blood of a goat as a good thing. He could be sick, then teach it to others.
If such a practice became part of a culture or subculture it would not fit the criteria of a delusion caused by delusional disorder. Even if the person who invented the practice was delusional the people who came after learned it from their culture, and that explains why believe in doing it.
A flawed belief does not equal a delusional belief. Also, if you were to use the source of the belief as an argument against the belief itself you would be committing a genetic fallacy.
As I have said, if it is part of the culture, it would be impossible to prove that a person holds the belief because of a mind disorder. It would be more likely that they simply learned it from their culture.
Few problems with your first statement, if a belief came from a crazy person, you can use it against the belief, as it would be coming from a crazy person. Also, you missed what I said in the first place, reread it plz.
This seems to be somewhat of a cop out dude. Just saying, they learned it from there culture and that's it. What about ppl who say they hear the word of god or something like that? This has been addressed uk.
That it came from a crazy would be reason to be very wary of accepting the belief, since the reasoning employed by the individua to reach the beliefl would likely be flawed. However, in order to conclude that the belief is false you would still need to refute the belief itself. Attacking the source of a belief to disprove the belief would be committing a genetic fallacy.
It's not a cop out. How could possibly prove that someone is delusional in a society where many hold to theism?
Read a Book called The Manipulation of Human Behavior by:
ALBERT D. BIDERMAN
Bureau of Social Science Research, Inc.
HERBERT ZIMMER
Associate Professor of Psychology
University of Georgia
John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York · London
You will find that the whole concept of self is an asembled delusion of experiences people hold to theism out of fear of reprisals in the past it came with a death sentance now it comes with ridicule and ostricisation impacting on lively hood
Also, would it not depend upon the process the person went through in reaching their belief? Suppose they come across some materials by a Christian apologist like William Lane Craig that survived the mass book burning that took place generations before to purge the society of the evils of religion and belief in God. They read it, consider it and eventually adopt the ideas in the material. The source of their belief would still be what they learned, not a mind disorder.
On the contrary, you're assuming theism is true my dear boy. And there is way more evidence towards there not being a god than there is evidence for one.
You for instance. Why would a god waste anytime on creating a worthless follower who isn't really standing up for his religion or moral belief/ faith whatever you wish to call it? Especially when said follower is only trying to stand up for something because he feels he is worthless and has no purpose.
At no point in this discussion or in my videos on the subject did I assume any such thing. Until now I haven't even touched on the issue of whether theism is true or not. Everything I said in my video responses to ShwaNerd would apply even if theism is false.
I am not really sure who you are talking about in your second paragraph.
Right that's enough I have had it no more. After I return from my holiday I will put up or shut shut up. I will phone a psychologist and see if he/she agrees with you, if not will you agree to stop say that
Good job! Aaron blocked me a long time ago. I think my arguments & evidences were making him a bit too uncomfortable. Finally, when I simply asked him if he had ever read any of Robert Ingersoll's works, that was enough for him. I wonder how long the brainwashed kid will absolutely refuse to read/study anything that he fears might ultimately force him to think critically and perhaps form a different perspective from outside the comfort of his little delusional faith-box.
The criteria for mental disorder in DSM-III include any unusual perceptual experience, magical thinking, clairvoyance, telepathy, sixth sense, sense of a person not actually present. You're allowed to sense the presence of a dead relative for three weeks after their death. After that it becomes a criterion of mental disorder to have those feelings.
The video responses are such bullshit. All aaronk does is generalize the traits, basically misrepresenting them. Migblocker who blocks people who comment on his videos and OWNES THEM POINT BY POINT just asserts they apply to Shawnerd and misrepesent our views completely. Guess what? A disbelief in leprechauns is not a fucking belief! ITS A DISBELIEF! "shwanerd gets mad when someone questions his beliefs" No, he gets mad at bullshit, like. Preaching to the quire, assertions, etc. THATS WHY!!!!!!
I would definitely agree that theism is a delusion. However, delusion should not be confused with mental illness or stupidity. Theism is believed by even the most intelligent of people, but is a delusion in the way that it is a false belief that is fervently and dogmatically accepted as fact. Theists aren't at all stupid or insane, but they are mistaken on this particular point, and thus delusional.
I am glad that an atheist is at least making that distinction. I find it much more acceptable for someone to claim that my belief in God is a delusion in the sense of it merely being a false belief. However, saying that it is indicative of a mental illness is out of keeping with professionals in the field of psychiatry.
Ure vids are great, but your effects that u've been using for a while now are really irritating! Away with the effects, they are fucking with my eyes!!!!
aaron clearly does not reliaze that the reason why it's not one, is because it's so wide spread and mental illness applys only to a few and not the majority.
Perhaps aaron should watch a few videos and look this up, because all most anything can be a mental illness really.
Actually, your response only really consisted of ramblings without a script, which you should've, and then saying "OH ATHEISM IS THE SAME!" which it isn't. Nice response though lol.
Ok time to be serious here. So in your response you say that you are skeptical about the modern claims of seeing angels. Yet you accept the claims about Jesus coming back to life as truth? That makes no sense. People alive today are a lot smarter than people alive 2000 years ago. Why not be skeptical of the claims coming from the dumber group of people?
And you're the one talking about irony! How many dumbass christians just lap up whatever the fuck their pastor or the bible tells them? Lol you for example read the bible, see that it says that Jebus came back to life, and then believe it. There's no empirical evidence involved. There's no outside scources. It's just the bible telling you so and you believing it. Rational people don't bother with stories, they bother with evidence.
Wow you must have been called that a lot in the past three or four months then! If so many people have been using it then it must have a kernel of truth to it. ;) They all agree that you look like a pig.
The Only difference between theism and equally absurd beliefs such as leprechauns are real is that the theistic belief is socially acceptable and seen as normal. While belief in leprechauns is bizzare and not wildly acceptable as far as society goes. Same thing with cults and religions. Cults are not seen as acceptable, religions are. Even though they are the same exact fucking thing.
He was using sarcasm to say that most christians would say that the shrinks were biased agianst religion. Then you said that most scholars are not christian. I think you missed his sarcasm there. Oh well.
There is a grain of truth to the 'theism as delusion' idea medically; damage to the temporal lobe of the brain has been known in some cases to trigger hyper-religiosity, religious visions, sensations of transcendence or 'oneness' etc.
On the whole though, I'm not sure I'd be willing to lay the label, it's a cultural paradigm more than anything.
If atheism is a religion then abstinence is a form of sex, and not collecting stamps is a hobby. One doesn't believe in atheism, it is an absence of belief.
I had a busy day today not playing tennis and not mowing the lawn. In fact, when I reflect on all of the billions of things I didn't do today, it makes me wonder how I could possibly have the time to not do them.
Your worldview has already been shown to be illegitimate, and thus false, since your God cannot provide the necessary preconditions to ground epistemic, Ontological, or Universal Intelligibility, since your made up God depends on prior truths.
This means your worldview fails logically, and legitimately, but since God belief is evolutionarily programmed into humans, this will mean nothing to you, and you will continue to believe in your invisible magic sky being.
You don't seem to understand, but your god is in the same category as Wonder Woman. Do realize how unimportant it is to have no belief in such silly shit? Grow up!
LOL. if you lack a belief in allah, you don't think that allah exists, therefore you believe no allah exists. you are a muslim atheist, I guess.
you know better. people have shown time and time again that atheism is DISBELIEF, not belief. I do not think, personally, that a god exists, BUT it is not a belief per se. but even if it was, it doesn't apply for the delusion title.
dont take what I said out of proportion kabane. You dont agree that many of the "criteria" in the article coul be applied to many many believers in God?
That said, I personally know many atheists to whom it also can be applied.
I work in psychiatric healthcare, I know that it takes a lot more to establish something to be a mind disorder than just looking at some statements and see if they somehow apply
many of the points apply to religious people and I thought that was funny. That's all
Kalmah is awesome!
Yes the delusion has oftenly shown itself in theists but hehe aaron thinks he's an apologetic and thus he thinks he can make it look like there is no possibility for theists to suffer delusion because of their strong conviction.
allianceofdemons 1 year ago
What really strikes me is the contrast between the humility of aaronk1994, his constant searching for truth, and the strutting arrogance of Shwanerd, his cocky 'I know it all' attitude. Shwanerd mocks the dogmatism of others while overlooking his own, chronic, dogmatism. And I'm not a Christian btw, my theism takes a different form, but even so, I respect aaronk1994 for his humility and intellectual integrity.
atticana 2 years ago
any intellectual can see religion as fulfilling all of the criteria for a delusional disorder.
christians ought to be forced into treatment for same
TheEruditepolymath 2 years ago 2
Well-spoken, sir!
beetlecommathe 2 years ago
It's sad really. Krensharpaw this is a useless debate. He will never see any other side than his own because its all he has to hold onto in life. isn't that a sad story.
And he sucks at debating anyways. he never even reads comments we make he just repeats what he has said over and over again
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
Ya, I think I'm going to end it here, as I have tlaked to him about this before, and i grow tired of goin around in circles with a wall.
Really uk, what ever you choose to do, just make sure you have a point this time plz.
Anyway, gn all.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
Please just answer me one thing because I am curious. What medication do you think I ought to be put on to cure me of my delusional disorder?
ukchristian28 2 years ago
I'm not sure, because I have not studied in the field.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
There are apparently a number of treatments. A number of anti-psychotics are usually applied. I suppose it would be interesting to do a study where believers in God are treated for delusional disorder. If their belief in God diminished then I suppose it would stregthen your case. I would volunteer to take part in such a study.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
A medical doctor would likely prescribe a healthy dose of REALITY. Clearly you have not dared try this. BTW, i read the entire bible and became an atheist :-) Dare you read it from cover to cover?
maxdecimus88 2 years ago
@ukchristian28 It can be prescribed to you by your local person with common sense,
A hefty dose of Atheism, swallowed whole!
seanparnell1000 5 months ago
@seanparnell1000
I did a response to this rubbish:
watch?v=Pm7D6nSSwOM
watch?v=RgpHjix4CoA
ukchristian28 5 months ago
FAIL!
The modern definition and Jaspers' original criteria have been criticised, as counter-examples can be shown for every defining feature.
faro0485 2 years ago
By the way, virtually 100 percent of mental pasients are believers. That IS a fact: )
winterstellar 2 years ago
Thank you accepting part two as a video response. I would now like you to deal with what I have said those videos please ShwaNerd, especially what I have said about the seventh indicator from Munro's book. What I said there utterly destroys everything you tried to argue in this video.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
A "true"psychiatirc delusion defies the group. I will give an example. If there is an Amazon tribe that all speaks to frogs, no ne in this tribe is having a delusion. If one of their members start talking to pythons whne the whole group does not, he is having a delusion or pyschiatric break. Delusions and pyschiatric breaks are defined by the group not the individual.
lifeisfair123 2 years ago
Exactly.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
You are both very ridiculous. I am not sure either of your arguments are anywhere near legitimate. Although You saying Christianity is a "delusional disorder" is a huge leap.
You cannot make statements such as that without sound proof.
On a side note comment, not meant to be taken seriously; Christianity and other beliefs in invisible entities or gods would be more specifically a mixture of erotomania and grandiose.
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
Erotomania being someone with a delusional disorder who believes that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with him or her. Said someones may attempt to contact the object of the delusion.
Grandiose would be a person that has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. Said person might believe he or she has a great talent or has made an important discovery. Exactly how many Christians act.
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
The thing is, ShwaNerd didn't say "Christians". He said "theists". A theist is anyone who believes in a personal God. That would include Jews, Muslims, Sikhs and a whole load of people who believe in God but who are not religious. Psychology deals with individuals, not groups. You can't apply it to broad, highly debatable concepts like theism.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
I believe I did apply it to your so called "broad, highly debatable" concept.
Whether or not he said Christians makes no difference.
It applies either way.
And Christians are individuals, are they not?
If you still insist on no, then both concepts of erotomania and gradiose still apply in the realm of sociology which covers large groups of humans.
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
Erotimanian refers to imaging that someone has a physical/ romantic attraction to you. God is believed to love His people, and the analogy of a wedding is used, but the concept isn't quite the same. God has no sexual feelings towards any being.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Gradiose: an inflated sense of self worth, power, knowledge, identity, or belief in a special relationship to a famous person. I suppse the last point might apply but Christian theology does not encorage gradiose perceptions. Quite the opposite, the Christian is to be humble and acknowledge their smallness when compared to God. They are to recognise they are a sinner, saved only by God's grace, and that without God they are nothing. That doesn't sound very gradiose to me.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
That ShwaNerd was applying these criteria to groups and concepts when they are supposed to be applied to individuals is very significant. In order to prove that a particular belief held by someone is indicative of them having a mental illness, you have to rule out the possibility of them picking up the belief from their culture of sub-cultural. If the belief is part of their culture, then that would be the source of their belief, not a mind disorder.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Of course, declaring that people who believe in God are mentally ill just assumes atheism. Why don't we just dismiss anyone who holds a belief or idea we don't agree with as having a mental illness. It would save sn awful lot of time. No need to engage them and debate their ideas, just lock them up:).
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Go one page over on the comments and reread the ones i posted about two weeks ago. I am well aware of what gradiose and EROTOMANIA are. (Your spelling ability is lacking in such complex words) Thanks.
Let me educate a little further on erotomania. It doesn't always involve "sexual" feelings.
and believing that an entity which is omniscient and "all-powerful" loves you in any kind of way is a bit delusional.
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
Not if an all powerful entity does love me:). All of this assumes that theism is not true. You can dismiss belief in God by declaring it a delusion.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
By the way, you missed the point before regarding when I pointed out that psychology deals with individuals, not groups. Point 7 of the criteria cited in Munroe states:
"The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background. "
If a certain belief is part of the culture then that is the source of the belief, not a disorder of the mind.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Did you not see the respomade to you? That was addressed.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
Yes I did, and it wasn't addressed. I am considering making a counter response. I have been a bit busy working just lately.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Yes it was, he addressed all of your points. You might want to look in part 2, because I remeber him tlaking about point 7.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
talking*, stupid new keyboard getting used too.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
And he totally missed the point of what I was saying. If a belief is held by the culture, then that is most likely the source of the belief, not a disorder in the person's brain. Also, even if the belief is a minority position it wouldn't prove it is caused by a mind disorder. Are you going to say that all minority beliefs and convictions within a given society are the result of a mind disorder?
ukchristian28 2 years ago
So then he did address it, so you lied.
Also, no I wouldn't. YOur doing it again, taking something to far and missing the point, rewatch the videos plz before you put your foot in your outh plz.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
mouth*
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
When I said he didn't address it, I meant of course that he didn't do so successfully or well. Even you should have been able to figure out what I meant there.
How am I taking something too far and missing the point?
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Yet you did not put that down. Next time, put down what you mean. Also, of course you would say that, as you still say that about my videos telling how you did logical fallcies wrong.
Because your claiming something he addressed and used a good example. IF you think he did a bad job, then how did you do a good job?
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
Yes, I will spell it all out for you and perhaps even include the odd diagram:).
That first sentence doesn't make sense in the second paragraph doesn't make sense, so I can't address it. My point is that if a belief is part of the culture, then that would account for an individual's belief. True delusions caused by delusional disorder are not part of the individual's culture. Then you may have a basis for supposing that a mind disorder is the cause of the person believing as they do.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
How so?
As said before, this was addressed. Rewatch the videos, before you put your foot in your mouth again. I'm growing tired of holding your hand mate.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
He used a good example in the video, and I know he did because I JUST watched it.
To dismiss it as bad for really no reason and contiue with your same bs that he addressed already....is just dumb.
So tell me, how did, YOU do a good job and he did a bad one? When if you watch the videos, you will see that he addressed everything.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
In the video he basically says that certain religious beliefs are not held to be delusional because there are a number of people who believe in them. That's missing the point. The source of their belief would be the culture, not a mind disorder. That's why the seventh indicator rules out religious beliefs such as those held by Christians. I don't know why he (and you) can't understand that.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Well tht's true, how is that missing the point?
Also, even i it's part of a culture, that does not mean that the soruce would not be from a mind disorder.
Rewatch the video, because as he said, if it did not have that, then your faith would be seen as that. As he said.
That's why we can't see it, because in truth, you can't see the point there.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
II did watch the video. In fact I watched it through a few times.
If it's part of the culture, how would you go about proving it is caused by a mind disorder and not what the person has been taught?
That comes back to what I said about applying such reasoning to other beliefs. Are minority opinions necessarily caused by mind disorders? You have agreed that they are not.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
I said no, unless you can prove that they are. But it seems rather crazy to try to apply it to, ALL minority opinions, as what you do, A LOT.
This is why I said you take things, WAY to far.
Also, even if they are taught it, it could have come from someone who was, meantally ill. As in, if a person believed bathing in the blood of a goat as a good thing. He could be sick, then teach it to others.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
If such a practice became part of a culture or subculture it would not fit the criteria of a delusion caused by delusional disorder. Even if the person who invented the practice was delusional the people who came after learned it from their culture, and that explains why believe in doing it.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
But it would still be a flawed belief and would still mean the belief is, since it came from someone who is.
Even if it became a part of culture, that does not mean it could not be a mental disorder.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
A flawed belief does not equal a delusional belief. Also, if you were to use the source of the belief as an argument against the belief itself you would be committing a genetic fallacy.
As I have said, if it is part of the culture, it would be impossible to prove that a person holds the belief because of a mind disorder. It would be more likely that they simply learned it from their culture.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Few problems with your first statement, if a belief came from a crazy person, you can use it against the belief, as it would be coming from a crazy person. Also, you missed what I said in the first place, reread it plz.
This seems to be somewhat of a cop out dude. Just saying, they learned it from there culture and that's it. What about ppl who say they hear the word of god or something like that? This has been addressed uk.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
That it came from a crazy would be reason to be very wary of accepting the belief, since the reasoning employed by the individua to reach the beliefl would likely be flawed. However, in order to conclude that the belief is false you would still need to refute the belief itself. Attacking the source of a belief to disprove the belief would be committing a genetic fallacy.
It's not a cop out. How could possibly prove that someone is delusional in a society where many hold to theism?
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Read a Book called The Manipulation of Human Behavior by:
ALBERT D. BIDERMAN
Bureau of Social Science Research, Inc.
HERBERT ZIMMER
Associate Professor of Psychology
University of Georgia
John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York · London
You will find that the whole concept of self is an asembled delusion of experiences people hold to theism out of fear of reprisals in the past it came with a death sentance now it comes with ridicule and ostricisation impacting on lively hood
DARTHMOBIUS 2 years ago
Also, would it not depend upon the process the person went through in reaching their belief? Suppose they come across some materials by a Christian apologist like William Lane Craig that survived the mass book burning that took place generations before to purge the society of the evils of religion and belief in God. They read it, consider it and eventually adopt the ideas in the material. The source of their belief would still be what they learned, not a mind disorder.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
But the source could have come from someone who had a minddisorder, thus you are following a belief that came from someone like that.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
On the contrary, you're assuming theism is true my dear boy. And there is way more evidence towards there not being a god than there is evidence for one.
You for instance. Why would a god waste anytime on creating a worthless follower who isn't really standing up for his religion or moral belief/ faith whatever you wish to call it? Especially when said follower is only trying to stand up for something because he feels he is worthless and has no purpose.
fearoftruth4791 2 years ago
At no point in this discussion or in my videos on the subject did I assume any such thing. Until now I haven't even touched on the issue of whether theism is true or not. Everything I said in my video responses to ShwaNerd would apply even if theism is false.
I am not really sure who you are talking about in your second paragraph.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Right that's enough I have had it no more. After I return from my holiday I will put up or shut shut up. I will phone a psychologist and see if he/she agrees with you, if not will you agree to stop say that
bossman103 2 years ago
They won't agree with him, as I have shown in my video responses to him.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Shwanerd, the responses by your fans in these comments testifies to the death of logic in western culture.
Atheism has gone from great thinkers like Diderot, Voltaire, Hume, Quine and Flew, to you.
wow is all I have to say.
migkillertwo 2 years ago
I have to agree, these days just about anyone can see through the bullshit and be an Atheist.
kff 2 years ago
ukchristian28 pwned you.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Lol, I'm a Christian, I like Aaronk.
But I chuckled when he coughed his name.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Psychology is nothing but a pile of crap carefully disguised as science
TheAmazingImbecile 2 years ago
Huge generalization is huge.
DominicBuchholz 2 years ago
Good job! Aaron blocked me a long time ago. I think my arguments & evidences were making him a bit too uncomfortable. Finally, when I simply asked him if he had ever read any of Robert Ingersoll's works, that was enough for him. I wonder how long the brainwashed kid will absolutely refuse to read/study anything that he fears might ultimately force him to think critically and perhaps form a different perspective from outside the comfort of his little delusional faith-box.
JesusSavesAtCitibank 2 years ago
I didn't know mental illnesses can prolong longevity of life or encourage fertility.
legodesi 2 years ago
The criteria for mental disorder in DSM-III include any unusual perceptual experience, magical thinking, clairvoyance, telepathy, sixth sense, sense of a person not actually present. You're allowed to sense the presence of a dead relative for three weeks after their death. After that it becomes a criterion of mental disorder to have those feelings.
three weeks? hrm 2,000 years. :)
justintempler 2 years ago
The video responses are such bullshit. All aaronk does is generalize the traits, basically misrepresenting them. Migblocker who blocks people who comment on his videos and OWNES THEM POINT BY POINT just asserts they apply to Shawnerd and misrepesent our views completely. Guess what? A disbelief in leprechauns is not a fucking belief! ITS A DISBELIEF! "shwanerd gets mad when someone questions his beliefs" No, he gets mad at bullshit, like. Preaching to the quire, assertions, etc. THATS WHY!!!!!!
jay666KJ 2 years ago 3
I would definitely agree that theism is a delusion. However, delusion should not be confused with mental illness or stupidity. Theism is believed by even the most intelligent of people, but is a delusion in the way that it is a false belief that is fervently and dogmatically accepted as fact. Theists aren't at all stupid or insane, but they are mistaken on this particular point, and thus delusional.
Philosoraptor77 2 years ago
I have to agree with you there, as someone who has real mental illness i dont want to be lumped into the catagory with the religious loons.
Also the delusion is very specific in the case of religion and other then that they manage their lives ok.
CarolineATRC 2 years ago
Stupid and insane are two totally different things. I'm sure there are many brilliant people who are also completely nuts.
utukkuxul 2 years ago 6
I am glad that an atheist is at least making that distinction. I find it much more acceptable for someone to claim that my belief in God is a delusion in the sense of it merely being a false belief. However, saying that it is indicative of a mental illness is out of keeping with professionals in the field of psychiatry.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Theism is certainly a delusion, but I do not think it qualifies as a mental disorder.
Mental disorder is usually incurable, while the belief in the gods is not terminal and can be cured quite easily.
Akatam0t0ma 2 years ago 4
Brilliant video :)
TemperaMagenta 2 years ago
Pure fucking pwnage! Why does Aaron even continue to debate this shit? Anyway, another great video. Keep this shit coming!
JOKERSFREAK 2 years ago
I would just like to say Shwanerd that because you put Kalmah in this video, you have automatically won all of the internets. Well done sir.
WashingMachine0 2 years ago
great video, great song, keep up the good work !
rs666sathan666pk 2 years ago
LMFAO.....heh.....There is no way at this point that i cant call you amazing. Well done.
tattoo9 2 years ago
Ure vids are great, but your effects that u've been using for a while now are really irritating! Away with the effects, they are fucking with my eyes!!!!
bennybrun 2 years ago 2
yeah i agree bennybrun
krenoime2 2 years ago
It is funny how most of these kids are like 12 years old and think they are soooo smart xD like kabane, how old is he? he looks like he is 13.
SucculentJuniper 2 years ago
aaron clearly does not reliaze that the reason why it's not one, is because it's so wide spread and mental illness applys only to a few and not the majority.
Perhaps aaron should watch a few videos and look this up, because all most anything can be a mental illness really.
Krensharpaw 2 years ago
You Keeps the PIMP HAND STRONG brother! I think i can hear Aaron's balls receding back into his body cavity.
spikesmth 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In case your wondering, there's a thing called a RESPONSE, and I have made one to this piece o junk.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
I'll check it out... I have a feeling you're only going to validate everything ShwaNerd brought forth here.
spikesmth 2 years ago
Actually, your response only really consisted of ramblings without a script, which you should've, and then saying "OH ATHEISM IS THE SAME!" which it isn't. Nice response though lol.
rba718 2 years ago
Ok time to be serious here. So in your response you say that you are skeptical about the modern claims of seeing angels. Yet you accept the claims about Jesus coming back to life as truth? That makes no sense. People alive today are a lot smarter than people alive 2000 years ago. Why not be skeptical of the claims coming from the dumber group of people?
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Why would ancient people be dumber than modern people?
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Lack of modern schooling. I think it was 10% who could read and write back then.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
It's ironic that NotWhollySane has responded, because he is a living proof that modern people are not necessarily smarter than ancient people.
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
Kabane is living proof that is mother fucked a pig. :)
NotWhollySane 2 years ago 4
How clever! What else did AmazingAtheist stick in your dog dish?
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
And you're the one talking about irony! How many dumbass christians just lap up whatever the fuck their pastor or the bible tells them? Lol you for example read the bible, see that it says that Jebus came back to life, and then believe it. There's no empirical evidence involved. There's no outside scources. It's just the bible telling you so and you believing it. Rational people don't bother with stories, they bother with evidence.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Nah, I was just pointing out that you were too dumb to use your own insults. Seriously, that one is so old that it lost whatever value it once had.
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
Wow you must have been called that a lot in the past three or four months then! If so many people have been using it then it must have a kernel of truth to it. ;) They all agree that you look like a pig.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Yeah, go check the video that TAA replied to bud. It's not independent attestation, they are all stealing it from TAA.
I'd rather look like one than have the brain of one.
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
What are you talking about now? I never said anything about independent attestation.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Very nice response!
SmogGta 2 years ago
Hes not saying its impossible for god to exist. Hes saying he doesnt believe it does, it still can, but he doubts it.
metaitachi 2 years ago
The Only difference between theism and equally absurd beliefs such as leprechauns are real is that the theistic belief is socially acceptable and seen as normal. While belief in leprechauns is bizzare and not wildly acceptable as far as society goes. Same thing with cults and religions. Cults are not seen as acceptable, religions are. Even though they are the same exact fucking thing.
jay666KJ 2 years ago 2
Belief in a negative? Mmkay.... That makes perfect sense!
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Yeah b-but uhh the Academic world is uhh bias- Yes! Bias to religion! I am certain.
lookit87 2 years ago 4
No, the majority of scholars and historians are not Christians.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
So you think they are biased agianst religion?
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
No.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
He was using sarcasm to say that most christians would say that the shrinks were biased agianst religion. Then you said that most scholars are not christian. I think you missed his sarcasm there. Oh well.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
I never make that claim.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
No you never *made* that claim. You merely showed how dense you are.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Everything is a conspiracy. Shh go to sleep, go to sleep . . . Atheism is the devil . . .shhhhh
lookit87 2 years ago 2
NO ONE SAYS THAT.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
No one says that Atheism is the devil? Are you serious?
lookit87 2 years ago 2
YOUR MOM DOES!!!!
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
This is weird considering that Karl Jaspers was religious (though I'm not sure you could call him a theist).
Stephen5000 2 years ago
"Please provide your source."
How about you provide YOUR source to your entire religion, douchebag? Great job, ShwaNerd. You totally destroyed him.
cosmosofinfinity 2 years ago 2
"Please provide your source."
The poor kid is just parroting "No Link" Holding here.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
No.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Yes!
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Theism sucks!!!!!!
dookiemonkey7 2 years ago
ahahaha pretty funny
jmsimpson11 2 years ago
I don't have enough words to describe how much you pwned that Aaron dude
LordReserei 2 years ago 3
Atheism is not a belief...
KaptajnKaffe 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A response is coming. Jake probably pwned you enough, but I guess I'll dish out my share of pwnage.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
If Jake has made a response, don't dilute it with wanting to gain brownie points.
CrohnsFeces 2 years ago
Mr. Feces, your an idiot. I was planning to make a response to his video way before Jake responded.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Aaron, don't be rude.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
please, do not pack your insults into kiddy talk... look, just say that you think that shwanerd is a shit -.-
FUCK! i am tired of people who are afraid of words.
anyway, you can´t pwn anyone; so don´t even try
thanks beforehand, yours KaptajnKaffe
KaptajnKaffe 2 years ago
Great, you win the Unsubstantiated Assertioner of the month!
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Mr. Feces = Mr. Shit
you pack swearwords into this kiddy talk... You mean the same thing, you just rephrase yourself very.. odd
KaptajnKaffe 2 years ago
I am planning to make a response too young man. I am going to try to go into some depth though, particularly regarding the man ShwaNerd cited.
ukchristian28 2 years ago
Pwnage? Really?
orangenorth 2 years ago
YES.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Wow...
orangenorth 2 years ago
Care to elaborate?
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Of course he said Pwnage. Arron is only like 13.
NubMonk 2 years ago
1) I'm 15.
2) ShwaNerd uses the term quite a lot.
aaronk1994 2 years ago
Im 13!!!
orangenorth 2 years ago
The fact you say pwnage is just, sigh...
orangenorth 2 years ago
wow, very nice
WashyBanjo 2 years ago
Aaronk has the audacity to say "Please provide you source", WTF! Talk about contradicting himself from the beginning, what an idiot LOL.
rationalhumano 2 years ago 6
Source: There's no evidence. FATALITY
iamericwhite 2 years ago
There is a grain of truth to the 'theism as delusion' idea medically; damage to the temporal lobe of the brain has been known in some cases to trigger hyper-religiosity, religious visions, sensations of transcendence or 'oneness' etc.
On the whole though, I'm not sure I'd be willing to lay the label, it's a cultural paradigm more than anything.
WizardJim 2 years ago
well, you're double delusional then, because you believe both things with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. LOL
AshesWasHerName 2 years ago
hehe, very well done :)
tattooskin72 2 years ago
I AM a muslim atheist too! great to know that existed.
detriplea 2 years ago
and all the Muslims believe, with the same certainty, that your god doesn't exist...
boy, you guys sure do well at suppressing your logic and failing to ever look at things from a larger perspective.
ubergossen 2 years ago 7
tsk tsk tsk
ubergossen...
bad boy.. bad boy...
how many times do i have to tell you... don't ask a theists to think... thats cruel...
remember their limitations....
such a cruel thing... asking them to think....
*sighs*
Baronesa1980 2 years ago 3
Aren't you afraid that your videos are gonna get taken off because of all that copyrighted music?
clerlic 2 years ago
If atheism is a religion then abstinence is a form of sex, and not collecting stamps is a hobby. One doesn't believe in atheism, it is an absence of belief.
Niriel 2 years ago 3
I had a busy day today not playing tennis and not mowing the lawn. In fact, when I reflect on all of the billions of things I didn't do today, it makes me wonder how I could possibly have the time to not do them.
SeenAndNotSeen 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Why wasn't I surprised that you stooped to such depths of idiocy shwanerd?
migkillertwo 2 years ago
Why wasn't I surprised that you couldn't make an actual objection?
HailCthulhu 2 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I didn't object in the comment section because I want his humiliation to be much more public.
which is why I made a video.
migkillertwo 2 years ago
@Jake
Your worldview has already been shown to be illegitimate, and thus false, since your God cannot provide the necessary preconditions to ground epistemic, Ontological, or Universal Intelligibility, since your made up God depends on prior truths.
This means your worldview fails logically, and legitimately, but since God belief is evolutionarily programmed into humans, this will mean nothing to you, and you will continue to believe in your invisible magic sky being.
Dhorpatan 2 years ago 3
So quoting a book by a university professor is idiotic?
If that's idiotic, I'd love to hear what quoting a book by a bunch of bronze age desert nomads is.
ubergossen 2 years ago 22
Your comment wins the thread.
kff 2 years ago
I second that!
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
You don't seem to understand, but your god is in the same category as Wonder Woman. Do realize how unimportant it is to have no belief in such silly shit? Grow up!
FallenAngel0fDoom 2 years ago 2
LOL. if you lack a belief in allah, you don't think that allah exists, therefore you believe no allah exists. you are a muslim atheist, I guess.
you know better. people have shown time and time again that atheism is DISBELIEF, not belief. I do not think, personally, that a god exists, BUT it is not a belief per se. but even if it was, it doesn't apply for the delusion title.
AshesWasHerName 2 years ago 3
LOL the definition of a delusion and a religion are pretty much identical. how surprising :)
Knowntje 2 years ago
The DSM-IV definition of delusion specifically excludes religious beliefs. Why they should be exempt is unclear.
samsroomie 2 years ago
Knowntje... :(
NOT YOU.
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
dont take what I said out of proportion kabane. You dont agree that many of the "criteria" in the article coul be applied to many many believers in God?
That said, I personally know many atheists to whom it also can be applied.
I work in psychiatric healthcare, I know that it takes a lot more to establish something to be a mind disorder than just looking at some statements and see if they somehow apply
many of the points apply to religious people and I thought that was funny. That's all
Knowntje 2 years ago
Ah, thanks for the clarification Knowntje.
KabaneTheChristian 2 years ago
seriously, NOT YOU!
migkillertwo 2 years ago
same answer as I gave to kabane
Knowntje 2 years ago
no, you idiot, he does NOT have a belief in God. he doesn't believe in NO GOD. if there was any proof to the contrary he would believe it.
AshesWasHerName 2 years ago 4
A great video there, Shwa. Hmm, question . . . Do you HAVE to go these Jesus Camps?
I am aware that you haven't told your parents about your atheism (but your dad can't handle Church lol. I'd like to meet him).
but yeah, this stuff is a delusion. Thanks for ripping AronK's viewpoints on that.
RtFusion 2 years ago
I will adopt you.
limpnail 2 years ago
Ah, here we see the classic "uh-uh, no you are" response found so commonly in childish trolls.
MrKrov 2 years ago 4
belief in atheism.... rofl....
theradioschizo 2 years ago 10
You are so amazing.
aPaThEiSt 2 years ago
YOU ROCK ShwaNerd. You now have more subscribers than Kabanethechristian.
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
joebevins1999 2 years ago