Climbing Tools: The Monster Munter

[doublebitaxe]

I found this knot in the Ashley Book of Knots (ABoK #1195). He calls it the "Zigzag Knot." Perhaps "Monster Munter" is a better name, especially for climbers who are already familiar with the Munter hitch (which is also in ABoK, #1818, under the name "Crossing Hitch").

I really enjoyed your video. I'm not a mountain climber (yet) but I am a knot enthusiast. There are many videos showing how to tie knots, but too few have commentary on when and how to use them. Keep up the good work.

[flynandi]

Your videos are super good...very educative.I simply love watching them. Thanks for sharing your immense knowledge & skill with the world.

"My life is better than your vacation"... Awesome bottom line...wanna print it on my Tee Shirt !

[punker334]

how much does this hitch impact the WLL of the rope? Ideally there wouldn't be a shock load situation, but just in case, will it significantly impact the strength of the rope used?

[MsBigcanoe]

u r a wonabe climber

[MatthewHammer]

@MsBigcanoe u r a wonabe speeler.

[ivanovivan11]

does it matter which side of the munter hitch (or monster munter) is facing you while you are lovering someone or belaying?

[mikebarter387]

@ivanovivan11 I don't believe so. As long as the munter is constructed correctly it will behave it's self.

[kiwionarope]

Nice video, I learnt this on a course in Australia last year :o)

[crofrog]

What do you think of using this for ski lift self evacuation with 7mm perlon? I played around with rapping on doubled and singled strands of it today but only for like 5 ft. It seemed to provide ample friction but i'm worried about longer distances on it. That being said it'd be a slow smooth rappel...

[mikebarter387]

@crofrog You would have to try it. I think it would work alright as a emergency system. Try lowering a 90 or 95 kg mass the distance of the highest point of your lift. Likely 35 meters or so. It has pretty god holding power. Just being sure that your patrollers can make the knot without screwing it up. It would be important so you may want to limit teaching it to those who are familiar with rope work.

[alex61761]

do the strands still need to be parallel in use?

[mikebarter387]

@alex61761 They will straighten themselves if done right.

[rainmechanic]

Dude your awesome.... Best source of climbing / belaying information on youtube... Im trying to learn about this stuff so i would at least know the basics of self rescue with a rope and your videos have become an invaluable resource for me..... And probably thousands of others..

[mrwashyable]

Found one website with info on this!

Unfortunately youtube doesn't allow linking websites

Almost every other google points to this video! (which is very informative)

Apparently good for lowering (and possibly single strand rappel), probably not so much for ground belaying a climb due to the amount of friction it has.

Question: between using a ATC/Stich or Autoblock of some kind to lower Verses the Monster Munter which would have the least wear on your rope?

[Lordfiller]

Very interesting! Thanks, I'll show my fellow instructors when I'm on Tower next!

I'm defiantly going to try it out!

[tubalooney]

Thanks very much Joe!!

You're the mountain genius!!

That's a fantastic knot I'm going to get use to it.

It'll come in very handy.

I really like rope work, I'm still very fond of my prussiks..

what do you think regarding prussiks versus things like a tiblock?

All the very best

Philip

[mikebarter387]

@tubalooney What ever works at the time I guess, planning ahead a bit never hurts.

[mikebarter387]

@tubalooney All these things have their place. The mechanical devices like the Tibloc, ropeman, etc.. make things easier but you hasve to have them on you. In the case of glacier travel I would most likely carry a couple such devices. Climbing rock wall is a bit diffrent (though I would most likely have a Reverso on me).

[mikebarter387]

@tubalooney Prussik is what you use when you don't have a tblock. They are all tools and the more stuff you know the more you have to work with.

[tubalooney]

@mikebarter387 Thanks Joe!

Three of us did a glacier trek from Aosta to Zermatt zig zagging our way between Switzerland and Italy for eleven days. A really great trip. I took my prussiks and my tibloks! Thankfully we didn't have to try out our crevasse rescue techniques but we were really glad that we had done all our training days in Chamonix with our guide up near the Aguille de Midi.

Out snowshoeing these days!

Thanks for all your great videos and wisdom.

All the best

[szymiec]

how will the monster muner work for belaying up a 2nd and or rapping?

[mikebarter387]

@szymiec Ideal for a second. I have never user it to rap with.

[szymiec]

@mikebarter387 In the big mountains i use munter for rapping fixed lines. there are a lot of knots and tat tied in between pitches sometimes. I use the monster munter for lowering usually.

[mikebarter387]

@szymiec Belaying up a second, hhmm, don't see why you would unless the person weighed 6oo pounds. Never tried rapping with it. Give it a try and let me know how it works.

[pasto76]

isnt that too much nylon on nylon violence?

[mikebarter387]

Create one, lower somebody a ways and tell me what you think.

[mikebarter387]

@pasto76 You'd think so , but the short answer is no.

[usulmauddib]

Mike, would you use this as a preferred method for lowering someone or only when you don't have a belay device?

Btw, I enjoy all of you videos, thanks so much for sharing.

[mikebarter387]

It started out as a lwering hitch that I would use in special situations liek two people at once but as I got more familair with it and more comfortable it became my primary lower in almost all situations. It took years to get comfortable with it as it was not that common of a hitch. It really does work and I have watched guides struggle with their messed up ropes (standard stitch belays still cause a lot of rope issues) while this really counters that. getting comfortable with it is the trick

[mikebarter387]

@usulmauddib I would use this with heavy loads like two people at once or a 800 pound gorilla, it works better then a standard belay device in most cases.

[usulmauddib]

@mikebarter387 So for smaller gorillas (200-300 lbs.), standard belay device is fine, got it :)

[mpgxsvcd]

What camera was used to film this HD video. The quality is outstanding.

[mikebarter387]

Ag HVX200 Panasonic shot in 720 30p. I woke up one day and youtube allowed me to upload 2 gig files. Not sure that they do that for everybody but it allows me to upload the raw file. A ten minute 720 raw file is 1.2 gigs and takes about 6 hours+ to upload. The fact that a file uploads for six hours via wireless still has me scratching my head. I often add lighting cheap industrial ones but it helps. I did this in the clove hitch and use a lav mic when possible.

The Mike

[lvscan]

Cool hitch, thanks for sharing it with us. I was aware of the munter hitch, but I will not be using it anymore after learing this one. I have a question. If your lowering someone, why would you have to worry about managing your coil? Wouldn't you only have to worry about the coil of rope when your pulling something/someone up?

[mikebarter387]

Your right that you would not have to worry about managing coils with the monster monter when lowering someone. Using a standard munter however is starts to pigtail after 5 meters and gets worse very quickly. It seemed you were always pulling out a few meters to keep lowering. No issue when bringing someone up. I have never tried bringing anyone up on the monster because I don't think it is needed and would be rather hard hard to do. Not really coiling but stacking when bringing people up

Mike

[Becknology]

I liked this. The little girl walking around in the back ground is too cute!

[thebksfriend]

HOT

[dannietzsche]

We are not suposed to wear flowers when tying the monster munter, right?!... Are we?!... Oh, nooo... hahahaha Behind the ear maybe?! hahahaha

[zmoosy]

Cool Knot.

Question, would you ever use this not to rappel? I know you'd only rappel off a munter in an emergency situation, but would this work too? or would it provide too much friction?

Also... What is your real name??? joe? or Mike?

[mikebarter387]

I am not sure that you could rappel with it.. On a single strand yeh in theory it should work fine (but then in theory communism works). With two strands it really would be a monster! Try it at a climbing gym and let me know how it goes.

Whats in a name really.

[Reed12223]

alright i don't want to sound like an amateur buuuuut just to be sure this is a heavy load belay hitch essentially am i correct?

[mikebarter387]

No it can be used in pretty much any scenario. The diffrence is that instead of the rope slipping through the biner I would have to feed the rope through. It works really well with heavy loads but in the end I would pretty much use this anytime I found myself using the munter. The exception being a light load on a snow slope or some such thing where I am just belaying across a shrund or crevasse bridge where no load is expected.

The Mike

[Reed12223]

Alright thank you!

ps: haha i like how you describe yourself as 'THE mike'

-THE reed

[dbb6]

catalog heading under "friction hitches" rather than "belay" hitch

[csuwehling]

I have always wanted to try this. I figured it would work, that's cool.

[MiguelAPeraltaJr]

Dude,

Who's that kid hanging around in the background. Did Mike hire some extras?

[SlapNuts3000]

That would be future mountain guide baby Aven.

[Tarzan07330]

thank you very much for sharing this knot! i haven't seen it before.