Well everything happened before the bible .... you have to go at least 50000 BC to understand what happens later on and to be able to read the bible ....
good is the absence of evil, if GOd would allow our evil in his kingdom it'd go agaisnt itself. for this reason our evil must be removed, but God cant just simply remove it thou he has the power. it'd go against "free will" which was delievered to us since the foundation of the world.
u cant blame God as guilty for our own concupiscence. nor can we attribute EVIL to GOD simply cuz He allows it.
@luixander19 good, bad, right, and wrong are just labels to ideas that we believe in..you can do something that i think is wrong but you think is right. evil came from god himself becuase he created everything. now, i want you to ponder this...
@chriss061810 again, ur using a biblical reasoning to prove God's injustice when u dont even understand the bible. but to follow ur good and evil reason le tme point out the following:
1) "good, bad, right, and wrong are just labels to ideas that we believe in..you can do something that i think is wrong but you think is right".. true and wrong, the fact that spoiled milk may be found usable and "good" for some ppl doesnt change the fact that "spoiled" milk is "bad" thou some find it "good"
@luixander19 i don't understand the bible?? or your just ignoring the bad things and trying to push it out of your mind and trying to make reasons just to make it good? i understand what the bile wants to say..yeah be good but it claims itself to be a good book while it's talking about immoral things
@chriss061810 meaning that thou good and evil may be found subjective, theres always a limit. one we usually cant see cuz of our limited knowlege. i'll explain this on point #2
2) theres a poison called "thallium" , it is colourless, odorless, tasteless, and it takes a gram of it to kill you. once u put it in water you cant detect it for u cant see it, smell it or taste it. but its there and it'l lkill you. why do i bring this up?
@chriss061810 once we do evil, we become evil. it takes just one act of evil for it to mix with our lives so good at one point of our lives we become used to it. it becomes normal, u cant detect it, u cant feel it, it becomes you. we think we do good when in fact we're doing wrong, and for this reason "good and evil" becomes subjective,we did evil and now is part of us and we're no longer able to identify it. the fact we may think something is good doesnt make it good (milk ilustration).
@chriss061810 "evil came from god himself becuase he created everything".
when i was in high school i made this gorgeous looking ceramic pot. i was good in art , still am. it was so perfect before my eyes. i painted it and it was used as an example for all other studends. but later on i brought it home for my mom, soon enough it got scratches and old and now it looks all messed up. just because it got scratches doesnt mean i created it that way, it wasnt part of my creation
@luixander19 That is a strawman. Firstly God made the things the caused the fall. And there is nothing that these things could do, but cause the fall or do nothing.
Secondly, giving newly created humans, who have no idea what good and evil are, a moral test is like letting a person ,who you know is untrained and mentally retarded, work with heavy machinery.
@chriss061810 on and i'll reply all videos, whic i already watched. an di will explain how wrong its content and understand ing of the bilbe is. keep in mind in order for you to understand my explanation u'll need a bible for i will do it verse by verse
one cannot really argue a topic with someone that doesnt really believe in the bible, and asa result will not understand it.
God does not use evil as some have stated, He allows it. the hebrew and greek translations are often missed understood due to the exprassions that are translated to another language, that sometimes are almost impossible to translate to the exact same meaning , one expression might make sense in english but translated to spanish literally doesnt make sense at all.
God didnt send this prophets to persuade ahab, he just "permited" ahab to be persuated by false prophets and at the end it was his ruin.
so in othe words, God woulnt persuade David to enduce other nations to think that israel depended on their army strength to succeed, it was rather the devil's plan to deceive and God allowed it. David realized then he didnt TRUST in God but rathe rhis own strength, which was against God purpose.
"paradidōmi" whic also means " to permit or allow". in other word the context of the reading "attributes to God what He doesnt prevent or impede". another example is found in 1 kings 22:20-23 whre in v 20 God askes who'd "persuade" ahab. in v21 it states that a "spirit" would enduce ahab. in v22 says that the "spirite" would go forth as "lying spirit" to put lies on their prophets. to which God says to "go forth and enduce them". Ahab let himself be guided by false prophets rather than by God ..
thou in 2 samuel 24:1 the verb used as "persuade (cuwth)" is used in both texts, it could be easily be understood as "attribute to God what He doesnt prevent or impede". this is example is also found in Romans 1:24,26,28 when it says that God "gave them up unto vile affections", the context itself in the original translation states that God didnt force them to "vile affections" for it'd go against their free will, but rather "permit or allow" them to . which by the way the word used in here is
so then it is obvious that it was satans plan to decieve david to trust in his own strength and not GOD... later david realized of his mistake (1 chro 21:8) when he said he had sinned graetly and done very "foolishly".. theres no reason for David to feel guilty of sin if it was Gods order , but since he realized it wasnt God but satan w ho deceived him, he then asked for forgiveness for his sin.
in 1 chro 21:1 it is stated that satan persuated david to number israel and judah. the act of numbering the ppl was for military purposes only, it was not to count the amount of inhabitants of the nation, but rather the combat force of the army. satan by persuating and deceiving david to do so, this is david increasin the army, it would increase the power and prestige of the nation. but by doing so it'd induce other nations to think that the power of the nation relied on their army and not GOD
there is no contradiction between 2 samuel 24:1 and 1 cro 21:1. i shall explain you why , but before let me start by saying that you shall find what you seek. if u read the bible to find hope and guidance u will find it. and if u read it to find mistakes and contradictions, you will find so as well.
that beign said, on the next post i will start explaining why there isnt a contradiction. and i will too about the other points but this one caught my attention more
I like the series but you are using a text that we know is not true to argue that a non existent god is malicious. Perhaps one thing the series does is that for any Christians who may watch them they will be exposed to stories that they never knew of. Most Christians don't know about the genocide or the meanness of their god that is portrayed in the Bible.
As I sit here and watch these excellent videos that you create, it saddens me that Christians who view the videos and respond to them do not give honest, straight up, logical, rational answers to the questions you pose yet, they decide to tap dance around the questions all together...almost creating a new debate and avoiding the one in regards to the video. In other words...GREAT JOB! :)
There has been a dearth of discussion that relates to any of the contents of this video series.
Sadly, this mirrors the level of response we got from family, church members, and church leaders as we distributed the document (containing essentially video contents in a structured written format) from which this video series was derived.
@luixander19 An omnipotent, omniscient being created something, than created something else and let that something else tempt the something into partaking in a third creation, knowing what inevitably must happen because He is omniscient did not cause the temptation to happen?
@arachnophile01 can i ask you a question, are you aparent? if you are consider this, and im sure if u are a parent it has happened to u.
ur son is about to do something u know he will be hurt by, u tell him not to do it or he'll get hurt, but ur kid goes ahead and does it cuz hes too curious and tempted to knwo what'd happen if he does do that. so he does it and gets hurt. you obviously let it pass thou u know the comsecuences cuz u think "we" learn that way... my question is ........
@arachnophile01 didnt you have full knowlege that as u said " the inevitable" would happen ? did u provoke ur son to do it and get hurt? did u cause ur son to be " tempted" to do and do what u told him not to? ofcourse not, you simply ALLOWED it to happen. does this make you a bad parent?
so having full knowledge of the comsecuences of falling into temptation has nothing to do with being guilty for it. ur confusion lies on the fact u might not understand temptation
@luixander19 To use your analogy, what if you had the power to make, say, all pots not painful to the touch, would you do that, or let your kid get burned a couple times before he learned? And, if you believe in Hell( skip this part if you don't), would you let him play with a loaded gun that he should "learn" via "not inheriting" life past age five? Now read on regardless of afterlife beliefs: My point, anyway, was that god created the road, didn't give me a choice, and created potholes
@arachnophile01 my dear friend, you attribute evil to GOD, you attribute "pain" and "suffering " to God. when men was c reated he was not meant to "suffer" . thou God would have had the power to "remove" the feeling of pain from humans, it would not make the f act that theres evil go away, and we wouldnt understand it. sometimes like it happens with ur sons and daughters, it is necessary for them to suffer the consecuences of "evil" or doing wrong in order to understand it is not the right path.
@arachnophile01 but God does not cause it, He allows us to do evil against each other for it is part of our free will to do as we want.
there are two paths, GOOd and EVIL. whatever our free will leads us to do, there are consecuences. if we choose to go against Gods nature (GOOD) the result will be destruction. why? well a kingdom devided itself cannot succed. God cannot allow evil to dwell among his kingdom (good) for its like light and darkeness, these two cannot work together.
@arachnophile01 God does not creat the desire in us to play with guns and play with evil, it is our choice to choose which path, but if we choose evil u cant expect to inherit good.
It is not Gods will that we may perish in hell, but there cant be other end but destruction to evil and everything that has to do with it.
@arachnophile01 in reality you're not tempted by God or the devil , ur tempted by ur own concupiscence. our own desire to go against what we "think" and "know " is good. temptation appears once u know thers soemthing u shouldnt do.you cant be tempted to sin by drinking beer if drinking beer isnt a sin to you, can you now? if anyone "tempts" u , that someone just acts as "the stumbling rock" in the middle of that road that uses ur weakness to make you fall
In the book of Job God rants about how he can do whatever he wants because he's God, and then punishes Job's freinds for saying "God is just, you must have doen something to deserve what has happened to you".
God is not just and goes out of his way to prove it often in the bible.
jj, an all-powerful, all-knowing creator god is nothing more than all responsible for all of the universe. There can be no such thing as free will when god has complete control over how things are set up and complete knowledge of how they will turn out.
Also, someone cannot be both just and merciful. Being just means making sure the punishment fits the crime. Being merciful means being lenient on punishment.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.--Voltaire
@triftenC wrong, "just" is often stated in the new testament (written in greek δίκαιος) and translated to english as "dikaios" means "innocent, faultless, guiltless". in the new testament "justice " isnt applied as to received what u deserve for ur wrong doing for this doesnt "remove" ur guilt, you will still be "unjust" or "unrighteous" unless ur guilt is revomed . for instance in the NT the "justice" of God is applied when he doesnt "count" our "sins" against us (romans 4:6-8)
@triftenC so punishment does not remove the fact of our wrong doing which makes us not "just", only thing that does it is for our sins "not to be counted as sins (psalm 32:1-2)". so God still JUST when we dont receive our punishment simply cuz our sin isnt COUNTED AS A SIN or against his law, in other words it is removed, forgiven!. this way God is still JUST. but ofcourse there is a condition , to believe in HIM (ROMAN 4:5). this way GOD just and merciful
"New evidence is attacking my faith in God... must justify God's failure and pin misdeeds on angles. Must mention Hell and God's love without sounding ironic...
Offending information has been rationalized and justified. My delusion has been maintained... I am happy.
I should have claified really. I did mean that there could be an indifferent deistic god but to be all powerful but not do really anything in the way of helping humanity would almost seem a bit mailcious. If I had the ability to do anything I think I'd help my creation get out of wars and famine.
If God preplanned to sacrifice Jesus in order to redeem a fallen mankind then he purposed the Fall of mankind before it happened. BUT that's only going halfway back!
He ALSO purposed the Fall of Lucifer and the Renegade angels and that means that God actually sacrificed Lucifer - the Angel in heaven most like unto him by causing him to rebel against God.
According to the Bible, God is not only responsible for every war on Earth, but also for the only war fought in Heaven.
God TESTED Abrahams faith he did not tempt him. Testing and tempting are two different things. Like God tested Job or like Satan tempted Jesus....starting to get the picture now???? Do not confuse the two.
Now here is the kicker...could God be testing you right now with how you will respond to this comment?
As a person who was raised in an Abrahamic Desert Religion (Judaism/Christiamity/Islam) I would like to point out that the end result of the test, before *someone other than God* intervened was "Kill your son."
At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway as there probably is no God so just enjoy life and try to not live your life by a collection of fictional stories.
mmmm and did not God kill His son instead for us so that we could be forgiven for our sins...makes you think eh? God willingly laid down His life for us but He spared Abraham's son....God sounds quite merciful to me.
Our sins? Plural? I thought one sin was enough to banish A&E out the garden into the desert. Also note that since sin is invented by god then forgiving it is an act hypocrisy!
Also note Jesus is not "his son" but is god himself (according to christians and after 300 AD).
There are 29 mention of JC in Quraan and always as "prophet". I can assure you if JC was god back then the muslims would definitely would have said something about it in Quraan.
If God knows everything ahead of time and knows exactly what is in your mind and what you will do then testing is a redundancy in this concept!
If you put $1 in Jane's pocket and then ask Jane to pull out $1 of her pocket can you say : "I am testing Jane to see if she can pull out $1 out of her pocket?"
I do not believe in god. However I use his own oxymoron attribution to answer people who are just happy to have "faith". Blind submission to the most illogical concepts in a very marketable package.
Well good luck to you but really...to think that an infinite, powerful, eternal God does not exist is the height of foolishness. Just look at the world and how it works...its no accident.
And I think believing in "an infinite, powerful, eternal God " who has: created humans & is constantly cause/ effecting them or to think same god is jealous, requires animals to be killed & burnt, kill other humans just on his order, to be eligible for death if you work 7th day, to sell your daughter into slavery, to be banished from heaven for disobeying a trap order, to put forth idea that killing one person will "forgive" all human sins ... is the infinite level of foolishness.
1. How do you know he was sinless? Because a book says that? If that is the case I am sinless because I say so.
2. All animals are sinless! So killing them makes them great idea as offerings?
3. Many sinless infants are killed each year due to acts of violence. How is JC any different if he was sinless as you say?
Making a man an idol does not make it so. Worse is if you really go to deep end & promote: He created himself & had himself killed to forgive his own creation of the sins he created!
Jesus claimed to be divine. How many people do you know that made a claim like He did in the era of time that He did whilst fulfilling Messianic prophecy's made about Him thousands of years before He came to earth? He never sinned His claims were backed by witnesses too. His Resurrection from the dead proves His divinity. Animals were sacrificed as an offering for their blood. According to the bible your blood is your life hence the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins.
Where has JC claimed to be divine? All this psudo-facts are based on a book that was written hundreds of years after JC, including his resurrection. There is no info about him between infancy & his later years, & you have no way of knowing he has not "sinned". A story book is not proof especially if has so many holes in the accounts.
Spilling/shedding blood is not anything god-like but ritual of many people since earliest days of man as offering for gods to stop & start rain ...
All infants are born from the blood line of Adam and Eve and therefore inherit the curse of sin. We are born of the flesh. Jesus however was born of the spirit and to prove it guess what?? He was born to a virgin! Has it not occurred to you that you have free will? God did not create mindless robots to worship Him but people who can make their own choice about whether they will love God or not. In essence we chose sin over God. He let A&E choose. If you have no choice what kind of life is that?
431 years after A&E Mosses led 630,000 jews out of Egypt being chased by army of 10,000+. If there were no humans other than M & chariots that is 640,000. In 431 a couple won't make 640,000 people considering a woman giving birth every year between 15-40 with a survival ratio of 3 out of 4. Number are from bible.
Born of a virgin? So are many previous gods!
Jc was born of spirit? I thought you said a virgin.
If a man and a virgin are a bit mischievous a virgin can get pregnant.
Inherit sin? If you gggggret grandfather killed a man is that your sin? Even your god does NOT ask you to pay for it as clearly the bible says;The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son Ez18:20.
God does not give you a choice in worship! Either you do or you burn in hell. What kind of choice is that? It is fear of punishment!
I have free will so I do choose not to believe everything as blindly as "it is proven by the bible."
riddle me this, jjwmonsta. God gave his only begotten son so that we would be freed from sin and have eternal life. correct? God sacrificed his son for mankind. right?
Didn't Jesus rise from grave and ascend to heaven to sit at his father's right hand shortly after he was removed from the cross? 3 days??
His ressurection is proof that God accepted His sacrifice and consequently gave Jesus His life back. In the same way we too will be given our life back when we believe that Jesus really is the saviour of man from sin.
If we do not believe then our life will be taken from us (this is called the second death).
Well tnat certainly doesn't make any sense does it? I mean, how is that just? & 4 simply not believing?? What if someone just says no, I don't see snough evidence to believe? The man isn't not accepting god. He's just saying he doesn't see enough to convince him! How would the 2nd death be propper in such a case? To be honest, considering the morality of god, I don't see gow any acy of punishment against man can be justified. This can only mean that god is cruel & evil.
The reason people think that God is cruel is that they see evil and cruelty every day...but understand this is not God's work it is Satan's and mankinds work.
God does use evil deeds to bring about good but the evil is not being committed by Him. Such as the case with the book of Job the devil wants to do evil to Job and God allows it so that in the end Job is restored.
You must understand the nature of God and the devil to understand Jesus's sacrifice. In other words...read the bible.
why didn't Jesus speak out against slavery... wasn't it just as wrong when he was alive as it would be today? does god condone or maybe even instruct on how to treat slaves and what is considered acceptable punishment?
Today people have a warped sense of authority. By that I mean we cannot really appreciate what it means to have absolute power and control. What issue is more important slavery or sin?
My point is this.
Our lifes are so brief. Do any of us have the intellect or qualifications to say if God does or does not exist?
Lets say He does exist who are we to question Him?
People are picking at minor issues whilst missing the real issues. Sin is mankinds bane. Sin blinds us from the truth.
i'll agree with your first statement... referring to our elected "representatives" as "leaders" is a perfect example of what you said, "warped sense of authority".
slavery or sin???
love, honor, worship, praise, accept me or burn in hell for eternity?
those are the demands of a "ruler" and a tyrannical one at that. you sure you're on the right side? what if there's not a good or evil "side" and the real rulers have used and promoted the various dogmas to keep the world divided?
jjwmonsta, I think Cootabux is saying that it is wrong to put anyone in an eternal torture chamber simply for not being convinced of something. It's wrong for ANYBODY to be put in hell, and frankly it makes me sick to know that people actually believe that others get tortured forever here and consider it just.
Also, you said that God doesn't cause evil, but then you say he does use evil deeds. This is the same exact thing. Him using Satan to commit evil is still commiting evil.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
God does not commit evil but He does use the evil actions of angels, people for good. God can and will test people by allowing evil into our lives but he does not commit it.
As for Hell. The only way hell will make sense to you is to appreciate what is opposite of it. God is love. God is merciful. God is unchanging I could go on and on about the goodness God shows us all every day. But when you bring up mankind's qualities which do include love and mercy but they also include malice and hate.
Strawman? What are you talking about? I haven't misrepresented your position. I don't even know what your position is! I understand you believe in the theory of evolution as an answer to the mysteries of the diversity of life. All I am asking is that you explain how human beings evolved. What was the first life-form, where did it come from and how did it become human? What stages did it go through? You will not be able to do this without admitting faith in some unknown variable. No big words...
No really, professor, I already gave you the full credit. You have done the best impression I've seen this week of an ignoramus creationist. Touched every point -- except the bible verse thing.
Oh, and maybe "Darwin recanted on his death bed". Oh yeah, the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Bring that up, too. Maybe you'll win this month's prize. Then, at next month's atheist meeting, you get to sacrifice the first christian baby!!! I'm bringing lemon squares for dessert.
More than 3.5 Ga in 500 characters? Most creationists miss the point that evolution vs creationism is a false dichotomy. That is, both could be wrong and the explanation could be something unsuspected. Creationist attacks on the TofE rely upon a fallacious argument to ignorance that employs the false dichotomy. In other words, your challenge is irrelevant. The TofE is a powerful scientific theory based on abundant evidence of the fact of biological evolution. Incredulity does not alter that.
Reason is a funny thing. It is not reasonable to think that there is a creator yet is equally unreasonable to think we evolved from rocks and water. Don't give up people...keep seeking truth. Take the good meat out of all ancient texts and spit out the bones.
Oh really? Where then do evolutionists think we came from. My understanding evolutionary theology is that there was a big bang and water fell on the rocks forming a sort of soup in which a single, living cell developed by accident and then over billions of years and lots of accidents we evolved.
A typical, angry comment from someone without a strong argument or a real answer to a real question. Where DID we evolve from then genius? Monkeys? How did they evolve? Trace it back and give us some insight.
Come on, professor. I know you're busy grading papers, but this is silly.
Nakalipithecus and Ouranopithecus are the closest common ancestor between modern humans and other apes.
You obviously know this.
"Monkey"...funny...you know it'd be more believable as an impression of a no-nothing creationist if you sprinkled a bible verse in every once in a while.
haha...some of us have lives. You still didn't answer the question genius...What was the life-form BEFORE monkeys...not BETWEEN monkeys and man. Nakalipithecus is just another KIND of monkey...geezzz. Where, when, how did the first living cell appear?
Professor, you're getting better at mimicking the no-nothing creationist. Obviously, nakalipithecus wasn't a monkey at all but an ape.
And you of all people should know that the origins of the first cell (abiogenesis) have very little to do with the diversity of life on this planet, aka, evolution. But you get extra points for moving the goalposts.
You've almost got it down. I still think you need a bible verse. Try Psalm 14:1. That's my favorite no-nothing creationist babble.
Ape, monkey, gorrilla...all the same KIND...Like dog, wolf and fox or horse and zebra. It doesn't take any education to figure this stuff out. C'mon...answer my question instead of the juvenile name-calling. Why doesn't the first living cell have anything to do with evolution? If we evolved from something, what did that something evolve from?
Oh professor, getting better and better. Confusing completely different species with "kinds", and then claiming that monkeys and gorillas are the same kind when they clearly aren't. (Hint; One has a tail and cannot fully brachiate, among other things). Not even the most idiotic creationist would make that claim.
I give you an A.
Of course, you know that early life developed at times in a non-Darwinian fashion via gene duplication, transposition, horizontal gene transfer, etc.
No, I don't know much about evolutionary theory...I can't get past the "something-from-nothing" opening...it does not make sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that there is an eternal creator. Where did the creator come from you ask? I have no idea but I can respect your need to try and explain life scientifically. I just think you're wrong...but it doesn't really matter now does it? Have a nice life...
Ya, I've been a Christian all my life but always felt there was something wrong with the Bible. I still believe in a God who is eternal and the creator of everything...I just don't think the Bible is all truth.
Thank you for this great series, I finally took the time today to finish watching it. I look forward to more of your videos and encourage you to produce them.
Well, we got a little over halfway through production this weekend, but work has been killing me lately and my stamina for evening video production has been low.
I am looking forward, I just added your channel to my favorites. I usually do not subscribe to anybody, sorry for that. I watched the whole series. Very nice!!
I would be interested in knowing if removing yourselves from organized religion has had any effect on your political views? Another outstanding video.
great video, thats really calling out Christians on their beliefs. you did leave out the rather important part with Abraham and his son when an angel comes down to stop him because it was a blatant test by God, but again that supports biblical contradictions. great work on the vid though, keep it up
Yes, the text says an angel stopped him prior to commiting the act (sort of like the Minority Report - without the arrest for crimes about to be committed), but in my opinion it is sort of inconsequential to the request of sacrificing his son as a burnt offering.
It is the divinely dictated act of murder that is at question, not so much the fact that it was miraculously stopped by a heavenly host.
Another excellent video. Its Interesting viewing these topics in light of the recent arguments between Yokeup and Pastor Javid, where I belive (if I'm correct) that Jeff said he would kill if God commanded him to. Many Christians were uncomfortable with this, not only because of the extremist connotations, but because it threw up this exact problem, would it be a sin to kill if God commanded it?
Unfortunately, while Jeff's stance in that situation is really untenable, it is the only logical position to take if you are a fundamentalist christian who believes in the divine source and inerrancy of the bible. "God said do it, so no matter how terrible it sounds, I have permission"
It is that same thought process that allows extremists to blow up buses and buildings.
I am so glad to be rid of the craziness of religion that required me to ponder the finer points of ludicrous bible tales, and conclude that god was *love*, when in fact he was impossibly evil. My scavenger hunts for excuses (apologetics) for his immoral behavior was exhausting. A pastor introduced me to the idea that god *allowed* satan to do evil, and even tho the bible said god did it, it was in fact satan. As if a powerful god couldn't make it clear in his only book. Absurd! Obscene, even.
Outstanding and inspiring. My eyes light up when I see you've uploaded a new video and it's just a delight to listen to your reasoning. 5 stars and faved!
1. Adam and Eve were not disposed to disobey God or even desire the fruit. (Gen 3:6) God didn't know they would disobey.
2. Abraham had faith that God would raise Isaac if he were killed. (Hebrews 11:19)
3. Because of Jehovah's power and awareness nothing can happen without his permission. Because of this the Bible speaks of him doing a thing when he has allowed it. (Ex 4:21; 9:34; Job 1:12, 21, 22; 2:3, 7; 42:11) He allowed Satan to tempt David.
Well if God didn't know that they would disobey, that means he is not omniscient. Meaning that without said knowledge he was powerless to stop them. (There goes omnipotence.) And if he is everywhere he would still have been able to stop them. (And there goes omnipresence.)
Through your own statement you have showed three fallacies in the bible. Meaning God lied, and is not perfect. (Look a fourth fallacy.)
He's not...not in the sense that he knows every detail of the future.
"he was powerless to stop them."
Nope. God is aware of everything happening. "All hearts Jehovah is searching, and every inclination of the thoughts he is discerning." (1 Chr 28:9; 1 Jo 3:20) He knew their thoughts before they acted and could have stopped them.
"there goes omnipresence"
Where do you think the Bible says God is omnipresent?
God can foresee and control the future. That doesn't mean he opts to do that for every moment in eternity. We have the ability to choose which we could not have if God knew everything we'd do before he even created us. (Deut 30:19)
You misapplied John 17:24 since God loved Jesus before the world because Jesus was alive then, but that's beside the point. Omnipresence is also. Interesting scripture though.
But you don't know that. It is stated many times in scripture that God knows ALL. Now that implies that God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen. (Omniscience.) If God didn't know everything about the future that means he has the potential to make a mistake. And if he makes a mistake he can't be perfect, and if he isn't perfect he deserves not to be worshiped.
"...God knows ALL...that implies that God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen."
Only if you start with that preconception. Neither that language nor the context of the scriptures lead you there. For example, if I say, "ALL things are part of an expanding universe," that does not mean all future things are.
His power and farsighted wisdom prevent a mess-up. As Job said, he is "able to do all things, and there is no idea that is unattainable for [him]." (Job 42:2)
Using the term theology carries the same weight as phrenology. You don't see people extoling the virtues of unicornology for a reason.
The insidious, resilient flavors of religion are those that are progressive, receive current revelation, or simply allow their adherents to pick and choose because then they are moving targets always changing, always adapting, always staying current with the latest technology or science.
It's the fundamental literalists that have a short lease on life.
You find progress and staying current with technology and science insidious?!
One of my favorite proverbs is, "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." (Prov 4:12) That basic idea is mirrored in many other scriptures. (Dan 12:3, 4, 8; Jn 16:12, 13; 1 Cor 13:12) It's one of the things that drew me to Christianity as a lover of knowledge and nature.
As always, the problem is your lack of understanding.
No, I find any religion that tries to utilize modern science to reinforce their bronze age mythology ridiculous since it is the same science and its high regards and demands for evidence that declares the bankruptcy of holding on to such beliefs.
The pursuit of science and its understanding is a worthy pursuit. The misuse of science to justifiy tomfoolery is a mockery.
"science...declares the bankruptcy of holding on to such beliefs."
This claim of the aggressive and hostile form of atheism that seems popular these days is one of it's most ridiculous. The sad thing is that you think it logical to say that science disproves God, but the logic of your doctrine is like a sieve. Knowledge of nature has always been important to God's people. (Job 12:7, 8; Ps 139:14-16; Rom 1:19, 20) The machinery, precision, and order of nature don't defy faith, they confirm it.
Up until the 17th century we weren't really aware of cells. Up until the 20th century they were thought to be homogenous. Now we know they've got more complex machinery in them than space shuttles or anything we make. Before that knowledge, it would have been easier to assume naturalistic origins for life. But the more we discover, the more we see how intricate it all is, and the more the believer is convinced of the depth of God's wisdom.
You should watch some cdk007 or donexodus2 videos on abiogenesis.
The insufficient and artificial awe with which you perceive a high power's influence on cells could be replaced with the real wonder of the miracle of life as it occured over billions of years.
Or, you *could* believe a flawed assortment of texts written thousands of years ago by ancient simple men that says an invisible, never before seen deity used magic and dirt to make humankind and merely magic to make everything else.
Abiogenesis is a theory for which there is no evidence that it occured and much evidence that it can't. I point you to the findings of Pasteur.
What is a fact, is the first life in the fossil record cyanobacteria that was then exactly as it is now - extraordinarily complex. Learning the difference between fact and conjecture will serve you well.
"Arguing from the man-written book that says god is all the things you think he is will not be accepted in any rational argument as far a science as concerned."
What is this fixation you have with science? Science can tell us nothing about God, at least not directly. It's but one tool for understanding NATURE, not the supernatural. Your claim that I'm arguing that belief in God is scientific is a strawman. You're the one that keeps introducing that.
"That way, it is not subject to logical, rational, verifiable, testable scrutiny."
It is. Not by science though. It's simply not designed for that. Scrutinize away using reason, history, and observation. Your insistence on bringing up science indicates that you have not really investigated this matter well, though.
"Pasteur??"
That's right. "Never will the doctrine of spontaneous generation recover from the mortal blow struck by this simple experiment." When you prove him wrong talk to me.
Reason, history, and observation alone are sufficient to expose christianity for the farce that it is.
Add in various fields of science to refute many fantastical claims as dreamed up by ancient men who knew no better regarding the origins of this planet & humankind, the function and description of stars, heavenly bodies, & animal husbandry, and you have yourself a sound, thorough, and logical refutation of the man-written tome you regard so highly.
Give me a break. I've loved science since I was a boy, which is why I know it's uses and limitations.
"Reason, history, and observation alone are sufficient to expose christianity for the farce that it is."
I've seen the arguments against it, including those in your video. They're unconvincing. The strict naturalistic theories are plain ridiculous. My observations, reason, and experience lead me to Christianity. If yours lead you to atheism, by all means, go with that. I really wish you well.
You've got me really curious since you speak so highly of science and the roll it plays in your thinking: What repeatable, testable science proves atheism?
Its what science disproves within the "inerrant" bible (the origins of this planet & humankind, the function and description of stars, etc.) coupled with our facility for reason and plausible circumstances as well as a requisite level of proof and evidence that is comparable to that of science that precludes it as a possible divine source of knowledge.
That's not to say there aren't a few truisms contained within just like in other ancient religions (golden rule, be generous, etc.).
It's just not worthy of literal or partial adherence in my opinion.
Something that would compell me to adherence wouldn't be so flawed, have so many contradictions in it, or have sanctioned murder & rape.
I haven't stopped looking, I have just refined what I consider worthy of adherence and it is not the compulsory acceptance of predetermined human sacrifice on my behalf.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"Its what science disproves"
I find that curious as abiogenesis has been disproved scientifically and all attempts at reproducing life or "protolife" in a sterile environment fail, yet you push that as your belief. It's testable, observable, and repeatable. I understand why you hope and let a priori beliefs guide you in the face of the contrary evidence though.
The question is whether magic is more plausible than scientifically explainable phenomena (see Thunderf00ts latest vid).
You seem to be satisfied with the mystical & spooky, I am not.
The source of your desire to accept the spooky is the bible. There are too many errors and not enough prescient, hitherto unknown game changing ideas about altruism, benevolence, humility, and ideas like the golden rule. Though it has barbaric atrocities in spades.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"You seem to be satisfied with the mystical & spooky, I am not."
If it has been proven scientifically that life cannot arise in a sterile environment and you believe that it can, I don't know what you call the basis for your beliefs, but it ain't natural.
I watched the first 8 mins of the video you recommended and it's fluff. The findings of Pasteur against abiogenesis have stood for 150 years without any viable challenge.
You don't have to hang your hat on abiogenesis as you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of natural phenomena in favor of magic, but feel free to address any other reference or claim the bible makes that science has proven to be wrong.
The funny thing is the first bit of the video is from a creationist video and you are not acknowledging that it is refuting the impossibility of abiogenesis based on flawed logic.
I also suggest AronRa's video "12th Foundation Falsehood of Creationism".
"you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of natural phenomena in favor of magic"
Where do you come up with these claims about what I believe? I never said this. Your comments give indication that you're not approaching this rationally.
"address any other reference or claim the bible makes that science has proven to be wrong"
Abiogenesis has *not* been disproven. It is a fertile ground of scientific inquiry to this day.
Louis Pasteur showed that maggots do not grow spontaneously from rotten meat. I suggest that you look more closely at what Abiogenesis entails as it is not what Pasteur studied. Abiogenesis is the field of science dedicated to studying how life might have arisen for the first time on the primordial young Earth
Well everything happened before the bible .... you have to go at least 50000 BC to understand what happens later on and to be able to read the bible ....
1unix 7 months ago
good is the absence of evil, if GOd would allow our evil in his kingdom it'd go agaisnt itself. for this reason our evil must be removed, but God cant just simply remove it thou he has the power. it'd go against "free will" which was delievered to us since the foundation of the world.
u cant blame God as guilty for our own concupiscence. nor can we attribute EVIL to GOD simply cuz He allows it.
luixander19 1 year ago
@luixander19 good, bad, right, and wrong are just labels to ideas that we believe in..you can do something that i think is wrong but you think is right. evil came from god himself becuase he created everything. now, i want you to ponder this...
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
and wathc all vids
chriss061810 11 months ago
@chriss061810 again, ur using a biblical reasoning to prove God's injustice when u dont even understand the bible. but to follow ur good and evil reason le tme point out the following:
1) "good, bad, right, and wrong are just labels to ideas that we believe in..you can do something that i think is wrong but you think is right".. true and wrong, the fact that spoiled milk may be found usable and "good" for some ppl doesnt change the fact that "spoiled" milk is "bad" thou some find it "good"
luixander19 11 months ago
@luixander19 i don't understand the bible?? or your just ignoring the bad things and trying to push it out of your mind and trying to make reasons just to make it good? i understand what the bile wants to say..yeah be good but it claims itself to be a good book while it's talking about immoral things
chriss061810 10 months ago
@chriss061810 meaning that thou good and evil may be found subjective, theres always a limit. one we usually cant see cuz of our limited knowlege. i'll explain this on point #2
2) theres a poison called "thallium" , it is colourless, odorless, tasteless, and it takes a gram of it to kill you. once u put it in water you cant detect it for u cant see it, smell it or taste it. but its there and it'l lkill you. why do i bring this up?
luixander19 11 months ago
@chriss061810 once we do evil, we become evil. it takes just one act of evil for it to mix with our lives so good at one point of our lives we become used to it. it becomes normal, u cant detect it, u cant feel it, it becomes you. we think we do good when in fact we're doing wrong, and for this reason "good and evil" becomes subjective,we did evil and now is part of us and we're no longer able to identify it. the fact we may think something is good doesnt make it good (milk ilustration).
luixander19 11 months ago
@chriss061810 "evil came from god himself becuase he created everything".
when i was in high school i made this gorgeous looking ceramic pot. i was good in art , still am. it was so perfect before my eyes. i painted it and it was used as an example for all other studends. but later on i brought it home for my mom, soon enough it got scratches and old and now it looks all messed up. just because it got scratches doesnt mean i created it that way, it wasnt part of my creation
luixander19 11 months ago
@luixander19 That is a strawman. Firstly God made the things the caused the fall. And there is nothing that these things could do, but cause the fall or do nothing.
Secondly, giving newly created humans, who have no idea what good and evil are, a moral test is like letting a person ,who you know is untrained and mentally retarded, work with heavy machinery.
SuperMerlin100 10 months ago
@chriss061810 on and i'll reply all videos, whic i already watched. an di will explain how wrong its content and understand ing of the bilbe is. keep in mind in order for you to understand my explanation u'll need a bible for i will do it verse by verse
luixander19 11 months ago
one cannot really argue a topic with someone that doesnt really believe in the bible, and asa result will not understand it.
God does not use evil as some have stated, He allows it. the hebrew and greek translations are often missed understood due to the exprassions that are translated to another language, that sometimes are almost impossible to translate to the exact same meaning , one expression might make sense in english but translated to spanish literally doesnt make sense at all.
luixander19 1 year ago
God didnt send this prophets to persuade ahab, he just "permited" ahab to be persuated by false prophets and at the end it was his ruin.
so in othe words, God woulnt persuade David to enduce other nations to think that israel depended on their army strength to succeed, it was rather the devil's plan to deceive and God allowed it. David realized then he didnt TRUST in God but rathe rhis own strength, which was against God purpose.
luixander19 1 year ago
"paradidōmi" whic also means " to permit or allow". in other word the context of the reading "attributes to God what He doesnt prevent or impede". another example is found in 1 kings 22:20-23 whre in v 20 God askes who'd "persuade" ahab. in v21 it states that a "spirit" would enduce ahab. in v22 says that the "spirite" would go forth as "lying spirit" to put lies on their prophets. to which God says to "go forth and enduce them". Ahab let himself be guided by false prophets rather than by God ..
luixander19 1 year ago
thou in 2 samuel 24:1 the verb used as "persuade (cuwth)" is used in both texts, it could be easily be understood as "attribute to God what He doesnt prevent or impede". this is example is also found in Romans 1:24,26,28 when it says that God "gave them up unto vile affections", the context itself in the original translation states that God didnt force them to "vile affections" for it'd go against their free will, but rather "permit or allow" them to . which by the way the word used in here is
luixander19 1 year ago
so then it is obvious that it was satans plan to decieve david to trust in his own strength and not GOD... later david realized of his mistake (1 chro 21:8) when he said he had sinned graetly and done very "foolishly".. theres no reason for David to feel guilty of sin if it was Gods order , but since he realized it wasnt God but satan w ho deceived him, he then asked for forgiveness for his sin.
luixander19 1 year ago
in 1 chro 21:1 it is stated that satan persuated david to number israel and judah. the act of numbering the ppl was for military purposes only, it was not to count the amount of inhabitants of the nation, but rather the combat force of the army. satan by persuating and deceiving david to do so, this is david increasin the army, it would increase the power and prestige of the nation. but by doing so it'd induce other nations to think that the power of the nation relied on their army and not GOD
luixander19 1 year ago
there is no contradiction between 2 samuel 24:1 and 1 cro 21:1. i shall explain you why , but before let me start by saying that you shall find what you seek. if u read the bible to find hope and guidance u will find it. and if u read it to find mistakes and contradictions, you will find so as well.
that beign said, on the next post i will start explaining why there isnt a contradiction. and i will too about the other points but this one caught my attention more
luixander19 1 year ago
Great videos!
Zentz29 1 year ago
People who like this video will get a good laugh from this one:
/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk&playnext_from=TL&videos=VBi3UevDCag&feature=sub
warren52nz 1 year ago
I feel sorry for all who believe this ridicules video.
Only people who do not know or understand script. would believe such lies and nonsense.
Answer a fool according to his folly...
it is easily understood...but I refuse to answer a fool.
jrwillhoite 2 years ago
I like the series but you are using a text that we know is not true to argue that a non existent god is malicious. Perhaps one thing the series does is that for any Christians who may watch them they will be exposed to stories that they never knew of. Most Christians don't know about the genocide or the meanness of their god that is portrayed in the Bible.
Eugensdiet 2 years ago
Yes, that is what a non-believer would say.
This video is for believers who are on the fence. Discussing anything besides what they believe to be true will fall on deaf ears.
This is mentioned on the info section on the main channel page and in the info section of each video.
Thanks for watching and the comment.
holysinecure 2 years ago
As I sit here and watch these excellent videos that you create, it saddens me that Christians who view the videos and respond to them do not give honest, straight up, logical, rational answers to the questions you pose yet, they decide to tap dance around the questions all together...almost creating a new debate and avoiding the one in regards to the video. In other words...GREAT JOB! :)
blaquelotus80 2 years ago 2
Thanks blaquelotus80.
There has been a dearth of discussion that relates to any of the contents of this video series.
Sadly, this mirrors the level of response we got from family, church members, and church leaders as we distributed the document (containing essentially video contents in a structured written format) from which this video series was derived.
holysinecure 2 years ago
wheather it was god or satn in 1 sam and 2 chron, god still predetermined the temptation
arachnophile01 2 years ago
@arachnophile01 wrong , GOD allowed it not provoked it , just as stated alson on romans 1:24,26, 28
luixander19 1 year ago
@luixander19 An omnipotent, omniscient being created something, than created something else and let that something else tempt the something into partaking in a third creation, knowing what inevitably must happen because He is omniscient did not cause the temptation to happen?
arachnophile01 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 can i ask you a question, are you aparent? if you are consider this, and im sure if u are a parent it has happened to u.
ur son is about to do something u know he will be hurt by, u tell him not to do it or he'll get hurt, but ur kid goes ahead and does it cuz hes too curious and tempted to knwo what'd happen if he does do that. so he does it and gets hurt. you obviously let it pass thou u know the comsecuences cuz u think "we" learn that way... my question is ........
luixander19 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 didnt you have full knowlege that as u said " the inevitable" would happen ? did u provoke ur son to do it and get hurt? did u cause ur son to be " tempted" to do and do what u told him not to? ofcourse not, you simply ALLOWED it to happen. does this make you a bad parent?
so having full knowledge of the comsecuences of falling into temptation has nothing to do with being guilty for it. ur confusion lies on the fact u might not understand temptation
luixander19 1 year ago
@luixander19 To use your analogy, what if you had the power to make, say, all pots not painful to the touch, would you do that, or let your kid get burned a couple times before he learned? And, if you believe in Hell( skip this part if you don't), would you let him play with a loaded gun that he should "learn" via "not inheriting" life past age five? Now read on regardless of afterlife beliefs: My point, anyway, was that god created the road, didn't give me a choice, and created potholes
arachnophile01 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 my dear friend, you attribute evil to GOD, you attribute "pain" and "suffering " to God. when men was c reated he was not meant to "suffer" . thou God would have had the power to "remove" the feeling of pain from humans, it would not make the f act that theres evil go away, and we wouldnt understand it. sometimes like it happens with ur sons and daughters, it is necessary for them to suffer the consecuences of "evil" or doing wrong in order to understand it is not the right path.
luixander19 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 but God does not cause it, He allows us to do evil against each other for it is part of our free will to do as we want.
there are two paths, GOOd and EVIL. whatever our free will leads us to do, there are consecuences. if we choose to go against Gods nature (GOOD) the result will be destruction. why? well a kingdom devided itself cannot succed. God cannot allow evil to dwell among his kingdom (good) for its like light and darkeness, these two cannot work together.
luixander19 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 God does not creat the desire in us to play with guns and play with evil, it is our choice to choose which path, but if we choose evil u cant expect to inherit good.
It is not Gods will that we may perish in hell, but there cant be other end but destruction to evil and everything that has to do with it.
luixander19 1 year ago
@arachnophile01 in reality you're not tempted by God or the devil , ur tempted by ur own concupiscence. our own desire to go against what we "think" and "know " is good. temptation appears once u know thers soemthing u shouldnt do.you cant be tempted to sin by drinking beer if drinking beer isnt a sin to you, can you now? if anyone "tempts" u , that someone just acts as "the stumbling rock" in the middle of that road that uses ur weakness to make you fall
luixander19 1 year ago
i love every song at the end of your vids so far . good taste!
ghostdog564 2 years ago 2
In the book of Job God rants about how he can do whatever he wants because he's God, and then punishes Job's freinds for saying "God is just, you must have doen something to deserve what has happened to you".
God is not just and goes out of his way to prove it often in the bible.
phookadude 2 years ago 9
jj, an all-powerful, all-knowing creator god is nothing more than all responsible for all of the universe. There can be no such thing as free will when god has complete control over how things are set up and complete knowledge of how they will turn out.
Also, someone cannot be both just and merciful. Being just means making sure the punishment fits the crime. Being merciful means being lenient on punishment.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.--Voltaire
triftenC 2 years ago 6
@triftenC wrong, "just" is often stated in the new testament (written in greek δίκαιος) and translated to english as "dikaios" means "innocent, faultless, guiltless". in the new testament "justice " isnt applied as to received what u deserve for ur wrong doing for this doesnt "remove" ur guilt, you will still be "unjust" or "unrighteous" unless ur guilt is revomed . for instance in the NT the "justice" of God is applied when he doesnt "count" our "sins" against us (romans 4:6-8)
luixander19 1 year ago
@triftenC so punishment does not remove the fact of our wrong doing which makes us not "just", only thing that does it is for our sins "not to be counted as sins (psalm 32:1-2)". so God still JUST when we dont receive our punishment simply cuz our sin isnt COUNTED AS A SIN or against his law, in other words it is removed, forgiven!. this way God is still JUST. but ofcourse there is a condition , to believe in HIM (ROMAN 4:5). this way GOD just and merciful
luixander19 1 year ago
@luixander19 theres simply no SIN to punish for it has been removed, and by removing it he shows HIS mercy
luixander19 1 year ago
I've really enjoyed your simple presentations, biblical citations, and choice of background music. Great vids!
triftenC 2 years ago 3
Unforgiven 3! :D
Great vid - can't wait for you to finish the series
DohsOfReality 2 years ago
Love that song! Thanks for the comments.
holysinecure 2 years ago
jjwmonsta translation:
"New evidence is attacking my faith in God... must justify God's failure and pin misdeeds on angles. Must mention Hell and God's love without sounding ironic...
Offending information has been rationalized and justified. My delusion has been maintained... I am happy.
IronChefofPoon 2 years ago 10
I am quite enjoying this scholarly rebuke of the Bible. Thanks for making this series!
massspectrician 2 years ago
Hah!
Neither me or my wife are remotely in the ballpark of "scholarly", but we appreciate your generous comments :P
holysinecure 2 years ago
And, modest to boot.
massspectrician 2 years ago
Nicely done! ★★★★★
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 2 years ago
anyone else notice the insane amount of shrinkage on adam in that intro painting? man, i hate shrinkage!!! :(
LordHines420 2 years ago
Hay, awesome video seerees.
Disthron 2 years ago
The only god that can or could exist is an evil deistic one.
LogicIsDying 2 years ago
If you define indifference as evil, then yeah, the deistic one is evil.
SevenLeafClover7 2 years ago
I should have claified really. I did mean that there could be an indifferent deistic god but to be all powerful but not do really anything in the way of helping humanity would almost seem a bit mailcious. If I had the ability to do anything I think I'd help my creation get out of wars and famine.
LogicIsDying 2 years ago
With God, all things are possible ...
... With a false premise, all things are possible
Coincidence??
drchaffee 2 years ago 6
I like that...nice point
MasterOhSo 2 years ago
If God preplanned to sacrifice Jesus in order to redeem a fallen mankind then he purposed the Fall of mankind before it happened. BUT that's only going halfway back!
He ALSO purposed the Fall of Lucifer and the Renegade angels and that means that God actually sacrificed Lucifer - the Angel in heaven most like unto him by causing him to rebel against God.
According to the Bible, God is not only responsible for every war on Earth, but also for the only war fought in Heaven.
Apolloin 2 years ago
"I'll only say this once. You're 100% wrong.
Abiogenesis is the study of the origins of primitive single-cell life forms from non-living organic chemicals.
Spontaneous generation is about the appearance of whole creatures, ie, the biblical creation story."
So are you saying that a single celled life form is NOT a whole creature?
OneEyedJack1970 2 years ago
God TESTED Abrahams faith he did not tempt him. Testing and tempting are two different things. Like God tested Job or like Satan tempted Jesus....starting to get the picture now???? Do not confuse the two.
Now here is the kicker...could God be testing you right now with how you will respond to this comment?
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
As a person who was raised in an Abrahamic Desert Religion (Judaism/Christiamity/Islam) I would like to point out that the end result of the test, before *someone other than God* intervened was "Kill your son."
At the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway as there probably is no God so just enjoy life and try to not live your life by a collection of fictional stories.
coussasimov 2 years ago
mmmm and did not God kill His son instead for us so that we could be forgiven for our sins...makes you think eh? God willingly laid down His life for us but He spared Abraham's son....God sounds quite merciful to me.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
Our sins? Plural? I thought one sin was enough to banish A&E out the garden into the desert. Also note that since sin is invented by god then forgiving it is an act hypocrisy!
Also note Jesus is not "his son" but is god himself (according to christians and after 300 AD).
There are 29 mention of JC in Quraan and always as "prophet". I can assure you if JC was god back then the muslims would definitely would have said something about it in Quraan.
arhaznook 2 years ago 2
If God knows everything ahead of time and knows exactly what is in your mind and what you will do then testing is a redundancy in this concept!
If you put $1 in Jane's pocket and then ask Jane to pull out $1 of her pocket can you say : "I am testing Jane to see if she can pull out $1 out of her pocket?"
arhaznook 2 years ago 2
So the real issue becomes....are you happy about God knowing everything?
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
I do not believe in god. However I use his own oxymoron attribution to answer people who are just happy to have "faith". Blind submission to the most illogical concepts in a very marketable package.
arhaznook 2 years ago 3
Well good luck to you but really...to think that an infinite, powerful, eternal God does not exist is the height of foolishness. Just look at the world and how it works...its no accident.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
arhaznook 2 years ago
and that one man who was killed was Jesus who was sinless...kind of sets him apart from the rest of mankind eh?
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
1. How do you know he was sinless? Because a book says that? If that is the case I am sinless because I say so.
2. All animals are sinless! So killing them makes them great idea as offerings?
3. Many sinless infants are killed each year due to acts of violence. How is JC any different if he was sinless as you say?
Making a man an idol does not make it so. Worse is if you really go to deep end & promote: He created himself & had himself killed to forgive his own creation of the sins he created!
arhaznook 2 years ago 3
Jesus claimed to be divine. How many people do you know that made a claim like He did in the era of time that He did whilst fulfilling Messianic prophecy's made about Him thousands of years before He came to earth? He never sinned His claims were backed by witnesses too. His Resurrection from the dead proves His divinity. Animals were sacrificed as an offering for their blood. According to the bible your blood is your life hence the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
Where has JC claimed to be divine? All this psudo-facts are based on a book that was written hundreds of years after JC, including his resurrection. There is no info about him between infancy & his later years, & you have no way of knowing he has not "sinned". A story book is not proof especially if has so many holes in the accounts.
Spilling/shedding blood is not anything god-like but ritual of many people since earliest days of man as offering for gods to stop & start rain ...
arhaznook 2 years ago 4
Stephen King writes a better story than that. Gods choice for human is:
Do you want to eat cake or be shot in the head? (From Eddie Izzard)
If you claim bible is correct then you should seriously follow it including killing a lot of people. Just bookmark Deuteronomy.
arhaznook 2 years ago 3
"Jesus claimed to be divine. How many people do you know that made a claim like He did in the era of time "
Probably because most folks knew it would get you killed, as an act of blasphemy.
Isn't it about time you read some biblical scholarship? You ignorance of your own religion is stunning.
Try Tom Harpur or Lloyd Geering. Both Christians.
artyfarty2 2 years ago
All infants are born from the blood line of Adam and Eve and therefore inherit the curse of sin. We are born of the flesh. Jesus however was born of the spirit and to prove it guess what?? He was born to a virgin! Has it not occurred to you that you have free will? God did not create mindless robots to worship Him but people who can make their own choice about whether they will love God or not. In essence we chose sin over God. He let A&E choose. If you have no choice what kind of life is that?
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
431 years after A&E Mosses led 630,000 jews out of Egypt being chased by army of 10,000+. If there were no humans other than M & chariots that is 640,000. In 431 a couple won't make 640,000 people considering a woman giving birth every year between 15-40 with a survival ratio of 3 out of 4. Number are from bible.
Born of a virgin? So are many previous gods!
Jc was born of spirit? I thought you said a virgin.
If a man and a virgin are a bit mischievous a virgin can get pregnant.
arhaznook 2 years ago 3
Inherit sin? If you gggggret grandfather killed a man is that your sin? Even your god does NOT ask you to pay for it as clearly the bible says;The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son Ez18:20.
God does not give you a choice in worship! Either you do or you burn in hell. What kind of choice is that? It is fear of punishment!
I have free will so I do choose not to believe everything as blindly as "it is proven by the bible."
arhaznook 2 years ago 3
riddle me this, jjwmonsta. God gave his only begotten son so that we would be freed from sin and have eternal life. correct? God sacrificed his son for mankind. right?
Didn't Jesus rise from grave and ascend to heaven to sit at his father's right hand shortly after he was removed from the cross? 3 days??
Can that really be considered a sacrifice?
ALITL8 2 years ago 2
Yes because Jesus died.
His ressurection is proof that God accepted His sacrifice and consequently gave Jesus His life back. In the same way we too will be given our life back when we believe that Jesus really is the saviour of man from sin.
If we do not believe then our life will be taken from us (this is called the second death).
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
jj..
Well tnat certainly doesn't make any sense does it? I mean, how is that just? & 4 simply not believing?? What if someone just says no, I don't see snough evidence to believe? The man isn't not accepting god. He's just saying he doesn't see enough to convince him! How would the 2nd death be propper in such a case? To be honest, considering the morality of god, I don't see gow any acy of punishment against man can be justified. This can only mean that god is cruel & evil.
Cootabux 2 years ago
The reason people think that God is cruel is that they see evil and cruelty every day...but understand this is not God's work it is Satan's and mankinds work.
God does use evil deeds to bring about good but the evil is not being committed by Him. Such as the case with the book of Job the devil wants to do evil to Job and God allows it so that in the end Job is restored.
You must understand the nature of God and the devil to understand Jesus's sacrifice. In other words...read the bible.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
why didn't Jesus speak out against slavery... wasn't it just as wrong when he was alive as it would be today? does god condone or maybe even instruct on how to treat slaves and what is considered acceptable punishment?
in other words... read the bible.
ALITL8 2 years ago
Today people have a warped sense of authority. By that I mean we cannot really appreciate what it means to have absolute power and control. What issue is more important slavery or sin?
My point is this.
Our lifes are so brief. Do any of us have the intellect or qualifications to say if God does or does not exist?
Lets say He does exist who are we to question Him?
People are picking at minor issues whilst missing the real issues. Sin is mankinds bane. Sin blinds us from the truth.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
i'll agree with your first statement... referring to our elected "representatives" as "leaders" is a perfect example of what you said, "warped sense of authority".
slavery or sin???
love, honor, worship, praise, accept me or burn in hell for eternity?
those are the demands of a "ruler" and a tyrannical one at that. you sure you're on the right side? what if there's not a good or evil "side" and the real rulers have used and promoted the various dogmas to keep the world divided?
ALITL8 2 years ago
jjwmonsta, I think Cootabux is saying that it is wrong to put anyone in an eternal torture chamber simply for not being convinced of something. It's wrong for ANYBODY to be put in hell, and frankly it makes me sick to know that people actually believe that others get tortured forever here and consider it just.
Also, you said that God doesn't cause evil, but then you say he does use evil deeds. This is the same exact thing. Him using Satan to commit evil is still commiting evil.
SevenLeafClover7 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
God does not commit evil but He does use the evil actions of angels, people for good. God can and will test people by allowing evil into our lives but he does not commit it.
As for Hell. The only way hell will make sense to you is to appreciate what is opposite of it. God is love. God is merciful. God is unchanging I could go on and on about the goodness God shows us all every day. But when you bring up mankind's qualities which do include love and mercy but they also include malice and hate.
jjwmonsta 2 years ago
you mean billy wasn't a Poe?
hyoidbone54 3 years ago
Strawman? What are you talking about? I haven't misrepresented your position. I don't even know what your position is! I understand you believe in the theory of evolution as an answer to the mysteries of the diversity of life. All I am asking is that you explain how human beings evolved. What was the first life-form, where did it come from and how did it become human? What stages did it go through? You will not be able to do this without admitting faith in some unknown variable. No big words...
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
No really, professor, I already gave you the full credit. You have done the best impression I've seen this week of an ignoramus creationist. Touched every point -- except the bible verse thing.
Oh, and maybe "Darwin recanted on his death bed". Oh yeah, the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Bring that up, too. Maybe you'll win this month's prize. Then, at next month's atheist meeting, you get to sacrifice the first christian baby!!! I'm bringing lemon squares for dessert.
Baby liver - yummy.
middlekk 3 years ago
LOL...Alright...I accept your consession due to your lack of a reasonable argument. All the best, Billy Vee
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Honestly. You don't know when you're being made fun of?
What kind of a moron are you?
A clueless one, apparently.
Read a book or two that doesn't involve talking snakes and sin-fruit. Then come back. Idiot.
middlekk 3 years ago
More than 3.5 Ga in 500 characters? Most creationists miss the point that evolution vs creationism is a false dichotomy. That is, both could be wrong and the explanation could be something unsuspected. Creationist attacks on the TofE rely upon a fallacious argument to ignorance that employs the false dichotomy. In other words, your challenge is irrelevant. The TofE is a powerful scientific theory based on abundant evidence of the fact of biological evolution. Incredulity does not alter that.
anderebiste 2 years ago
Reason is a funny thing. It is not reasonable to think that there is a creator yet is equally unreasonable to think we evolved from rocks and water. Don't give up people...keep seeking truth. Take the good meat out of all ancient texts and spit out the bones.
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, believes we evolved from rocks and water.
Your preacher has been lying to you.
middlekk 3 years ago
Oh really? Where then do evolutionists think we came from. My understanding evolutionary theology is that there was a big bang and water fell on the rocks forming a sort of soup in which a single, living cell developed by accident and then over billions of years and lots of accidents we evolved.
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
OK, I call Poe's Law. No one can sound that much like a cousin-dating, mouth-breathing, 3rd-grade drop-out no-nothing and really mean it.
I'll admit you're doing a near-perfect imitation; but the "soup" gave you away, professor.
middlekk 3 years ago
A typical, angry comment from someone without a strong argument or a real answer to a real question. Where DID we evolve from then genius? Monkeys? How did they evolve? Trace it back and give us some insight.
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
2 weeks to reply?
Come on, professor. I know you're busy grading papers, but this is silly.
Nakalipithecus and Ouranopithecus are the closest common ancestor between modern humans and other apes.
You obviously know this.
"Monkey"...funny...you know it'd be more believable as an impression of a no-nothing creationist if you sprinkled a bible verse in every once in a while.
middlekk 3 years ago
haha...some of us have lives. You still didn't answer the question genius...What was the life-form BEFORE monkeys...not BETWEEN monkeys and man. Nakalipithecus is just another KIND of monkey...geezzz. Where, when, how did the first living cell appear?
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Professor, you're getting better at mimicking the no-nothing creationist. Obviously, nakalipithecus wasn't a monkey at all but an ape.
And you of all people should know that the origins of the first cell (abiogenesis) have very little to do with the diversity of life on this planet, aka, evolution. But you get extra points for moving the goalposts.
You've almost got it down. I still think you need a bible verse. Try Psalm 14:1. That's my favorite no-nothing creationist babble.
middlekk 3 years ago
Ape, monkey, gorrilla...all the same KIND...Like dog, wolf and fox or horse and zebra. It doesn't take any education to figure this stuff out. C'mon...answer my question instead of the juvenile name-calling. Why doesn't the first living cell have anything to do with evolution? If we evolved from something, what did that something evolve from?
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Oh professor, getting better and better. Confusing completely different species with "kinds", and then claiming that monkeys and gorillas are the same kind when they clearly aren't. (Hint; One has a tail and cannot fully brachiate, among other things). Not even the most idiotic creationist would make that claim.
I give you an A.
Of course, you know that early life developed at times in a non-Darwinian fashion via gene duplication, transposition, horizontal gene transfer, etc.
middlekk 3 years ago
No, I don't know much about evolutionary theory...I can't get past the "something-from-nothing" opening...it does not make sense. The only thing that makes sense to me is that there is an eternal creator. Where did the creator come from you ask? I have no idea but I can respect your need to try and explain life scientifically. I just think you're wrong...but it doesn't really matter now does it? Have a nice life...
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Well, professor, you got to the "something-from-nothing" fallacy. Congrats. You've made yourself look like a perfect moron.
Strawman fallacies that no scientist would ever propose are among the best creationist arguments, aren't they?
middlekk 3 years ago
Ya, I've been a Christian all my life but always felt there was something wrong with the Bible. I still believe in a God who is eternal and the creator of everything...I just don't think the Bible is all truth.
BillyVeePersonal 3 years ago
Thank you for the time and effort you have put into creating this series. I have enjoyed each video and look forward to more.
Titania1 3 years ago
Thank you for this great series, I finally took the time today to finish watching it. I look forward to more of your videos and encourage you to produce them.
farvision 3 years ago
really awesome, I look forward to the rest of the series :)
ndjarnag 3 years ago 2
Well, we got a little over halfway through production this weekend, but work has been killing me lately and my stamina for evening video production has been low.
We're trying :)
holysinecure 3 years ago
I just watched your whole series. I'm impressed. Very good job- I subscribed. And now, I'm totally bummed out...I need a beer...
chuckfaststrat 3 years ago
Thank you chuckfaststrat! What a marathon session watching them all at once.
I have my fingers crossed that we can get part 7 done this weekend or very early next week.
holysinecure 3 years ago
Looking forward to the next one
chuckfaststrat 3 years ago
wow, this is a good question to ask from people who ask where our morals come from! Thanks for the video!!
realk12345 3 years ago
You are very welcome, more to come ;)
holysinecure 3 years ago
I am looking forward, I just added your channel to my favorites. I usually do not subscribe to anybody, sorry for that. I watched the whole series. Very nice!!
realk12345 3 years ago
I love the video. You did a great job.
McChicken666 3 years ago
Thanks, we appreciate it.
holysinecure 3 years ago
Absolutely awesome video looking forward to the next one! :)
U4godlike 3 years ago
Thank you!
holysinecure 3 years ago
I would be interested in knowing if removing yourselves from organized religion has had any effect on your political views? Another outstanding video.
dunwrkn4 3 years ago
Absolutely. We were a dyed in the wool Republicans as it was the only acceptable position to take with regard to the beliefs of our previous religion.
Now, we are pretty far left on the political spectrum.
N
holysinecure 3 years ago
great video, thats really calling out Christians on their beliefs. you did leave out the rather important part with Abraham and his son when an angel comes down to stop him because it was a blatant test by God, but again that supports biblical contradictions. great work on the vid though, keep it up
IdoloR 3 years ago
Thanks for the comment IdoloR.
Yes, the text says an angel stopped him prior to commiting the act (sort of like the Minority Report - without the arrest for crimes about to be committed), but in my opinion it is sort of inconsequential to the request of sacrificing his son as a burnt offering.
It is the divinely dictated act of murder that is at question, not so much the fact that it was miraculously stopped by a heavenly host.
holysinecure 3 years ago
Could it be more obvious that "Man" has created god with his emotions in his or her own image.
peaceplease83 3 years ago
Righteous! A new favorite.
AronRa 3 years ago 2
Thanks AronRa, and great work on your last two videos!
holysinecure 3 years ago
Another excellent video. Its Interesting viewing these topics in light of the recent arguments between Yokeup and Pastor Javid, where I belive (if I'm correct) that Jeff said he would kill if God commanded him to. Many Christians were uncomfortable with this, not only because of the extremist connotations, but because it threw up this exact problem, would it be a sin to kill if God commanded it?
shoyhoy 3 years ago
Thanks shoyhoy.
Unfortunately, while Jeff's stance in that situation is really untenable, it is the only logical position to take if you are a fundamentalist christian who believes in the divine source and inerrancy of the bible. "God said do it, so no matter how terrible it sounds, I have permission"
It is that same thought process that allows extremists to blow up buses and buildings.
holysinecure 3 years ago
I am so glad to be rid of the craziness of religion that required me to ponder the finer points of ludicrous bible tales, and conclude that god was *love*, when in fact he was impossibly evil. My scavenger hunts for excuses (apologetics) for his immoral behavior was exhausting. A pastor introduced me to the idea that god *allowed* satan to do evil, and even tho the bible said god did it, it was in fact satan. As if a powerful god couldn't make it clear in his only book. Absurd! Obscene, even.
8journey8 3 years ago
I agree 8journey8. We have heard it argued that god is omniscient, but there are some things that he "doesn't allow himself to know".
*roll eyes*
holysinecure 3 years ago
Outstanding and inspiring. My eyes light up when I see you've uploaded a new video and it's just a delight to listen to your reasoning. 5 stars and faved!
QualiaSoup 3 years ago
Thanks so much QualiaSoup! The wife and I really enjoy your videos as well.
LOL, you should have seen us googling the monty hall dilemma after your last video!
holysinecure 3 years ago
1. Adam and Eve were not disposed to disobey God or even desire the fruit. (Gen 3:6) God didn't know they would disobey.
2. Abraham had faith that God would raise Isaac if he were killed. (Hebrews 11:19)
3. Because of Jehovah's power and awareness nothing can happen without his permission. Because of this the Bible speaks of him doing a thing when he has allowed it. (Ex 4:21; 9:34; Job 1:12, 21, 22; 2:3, 7; 42:11) He allowed Satan to tempt David.
heyalun 3 years ago
Well if God didn't know that they would disobey, that means he is not omniscient. Meaning that without said knowledge he was powerless to stop them. (There goes omnipotence.) And if he is everywhere he would still have been able to stop them. (And there goes omnipresence.)
Through your own statement you have showed three fallacies in the bible. Meaning God lied, and is not perfect. (Look a fourth fallacy.)
Look what one statement can do.
TheSumterPhilosopher 3 years ago 2
"he is not omniscient."
He's not...not in the sense that he knows every detail of the future.
"he was powerless to stop them."
Nope. God is aware of everything happening. "All hearts Jehovah is searching, and every inclination of the thoughts he is discerning." (1 Chr 28:9; 1 Jo 3:20) He knew their thoughts before they acted and could have stopped them.
"there goes omnipresence"
Where do you think the Bible says God is omnipresent?
heyalun 3 years ago
What about the prophecies in the old testament? If God doesn't know the future, said things could not be predicted.
When Jesus prayed, He said, "Father....YOU LOVED ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD." (John17:24)
"Before I formed you in the womb I KNEW you, and before you were born I consecrated you..." (Jer.1:5)
23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
(Sounds like Omnipresence to me.)
TheSumterPhilosopher 3 years ago 2
"What about the prophecies in the old testament?"
God can foresee and control the future. That doesn't mean he opts to do that for every moment in eternity. We have the ability to choose which we could not have if God knew everything we'd do before he even created us. (Deut 30:19)
You misapplied John 17:24 since God loved Jesus before the world because Jesus was alive then, but that's beside the point. Omnipresence is also. Interesting scripture though.
heyalun 3 years ago
But you don't know that. It is stated many times in scripture that God knows ALL. Now that implies that God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen. (Omniscience.) If God didn't know everything about the future that means he has the potential to make a mistake. And if he makes a mistake he can't be perfect, and if he isn't perfect he deserves not to be worshiped.
TheSumterPhilosopher 3 years ago
"...God knows ALL...that implies that God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen."
Only if you start with that preconception. Neither that language nor the context of the scriptures lead you there. For example, if I say, "ALL things are part of an expanding universe," that does not mean all future things are.
His power and farsighted wisdom prevent a mess-up. As Job said, he is "able to do all things, and there is no idea that is unattainable for [him]." (Job 42:2)
heyalun 3 years ago
You know what.
I've finally just come to realization that this is going down a pointless road.
I'm not going to convince you of my thoughts, and you aren't going to convince me of yours.
Because this debate is eventually just going to become circular in aspect, I believe we should stop.
I will say you did very well in presenting your side.
TheSumterPhilosopher 3 years ago
I appreciate your graciousness.
By the way, I wasn't trying to convince so much as demonstrating that not all theologies have the problems brought up in this video.
It was a pleasure discussing with you.
heyalun 3 years ago
Using the term theology carries the same weight as phrenology. You don't see people extoling the virtues of unicornology for a reason.
The insidious, resilient flavors of religion are those that are progressive, receive current revelation, or simply allow their adherents to pick and choose because then they are moving targets always changing, always adapting, always staying current with the latest technology or science.
It's the fundamental literalists that have a short lease on life.
holysinecure 3 years ago
You find progress and staying current with technology and science insidious?!
One of my favorite proverbs is, "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." (Prov 4:12) That basic idea is mirrored in many other scriptures. (Dan 12:3, 4, 8; Jn 16:12, 13; 1 Cor 13:12) It's one of the things that drew me to Christianity as a lover of knowledge and nature.
As always, the problem is your lack of understanding.
heyalun 3 years ago
No, I find any religion that tries to utilize modern science to reinforce their bronze age mythology ridiculous since it is the same science and its high regards and demands for evidence that declares the bankruptcy of holding on to such beliefs.
The pursuit of science and its understanding is a worthy pursuit. The misuse of science to justifiy tomfoolery is a mockery.
holysinecure 3 years ago
"science...declares the bankruptcy of holding on to such beliefs."
This claim of the aggressive and hostile form of atheism that seems popular these days is one of it's most ridiculous. The sad thing is that you think it logical to say that science disproves God, but the logic of your doctrine is like a sieve. Knowledge of nature has always been important to God's people. (Job 12:7, 8; Ps 139:14-16; Rom 1:19, 20) The machinery, precision, and order of nature don't defy faith, they confirm it.
heyalun 3 years ago
I'll give you an example:
Up until the 17th century we weren't really aware of cells. Up until the 20th century they were thought to be homogenous. Now we know they've got more complex machinery in them than space shuttles or anything we make. Before that knowledge, it would have been easier to assume naturalistic origins for life. But the more we discover, the more we see how intricate it all is, and the more the believer is convinced of the depth of God's wisdom.
heyalun 3 years ago
You should watch some cdk007 or donexodus2 videos on abiogenesis.
The insufficient and artificial awe with which you perceive a high power's influence on cells could be replaced with the real wonder of the miracle of life as it occured over billions of years.
Or, you *could* believe a flawed assortment of texts written thousands of years ago by ancient simple men that says an invisible, never before seen deity used magic and dirt to make humankind and merely magic to make everything else.
holysinecure 3 years ago
Abiogenesis is a theory for which there is no evidence that it occured and much evidence that it can't. I point you to the findings of Pasteur.
What is a fact, is the first life in the fossil record cyanobacteria that was then exactly as it is now - extraordinarily complex. Learning the difference between fact and conjecture will serve you well.
heyalun 3 years ago
"Arguing from the man-written book that says god is all the things you think he is will not be accepted in any rational argument as far a science as concerned."
What is this fixation you have with science? Science can tell us nothing about God, at least not directly. It's but one tool for understanding NATURE, not the supernatural. Your claim that I'm arguing that belief in God is scientific is a strawman. You're the one that keeps introducing that.
heyalun 3 years ago
Of course nothing but the good book, your interpretation of it, or personal subjective revelation can tell us anything about the divine.
That way, it is not subject to logical, rational, verifiable, testable scrutiny.
That way, you can believe how you see fit and be immune from critical discussion.
holysinecure 3 years ago
"That way, it is not subject to logical, rational, verifiable, testable scrutiny."
It is. Not by science though. It's simply not designed for that. Scrutinize away using reason, history, and observation. Your insistence on bringing up science indicates that you have not really investigated this matter well, though.
"Pasteur??"
That's right. "Never will the doctrine of spontaneous generation recover from the mortal blow struck by this simple experiment." When you prove him wrong talk to me.
heyalun 3 years ago
Reason, history, and observation alone are sufficient to expose christianity for the farce that it is.
Add in various fields of science to refute many fantastical claims as dreamed up by ancient men who knew no better regarding the origins of this planet & humankind, the function and description of stars, heavenly bodies, & animal husbandry, and you have yourself a sound, thorough, and logical refutation of the man-written tome you regard so highly.
I understand your aversion to science.
holysinecure 3 years ago
Give me a break. I've loved science since I was a boy, which is why I know it's uses and limitations.
"Reason, history, and observation alone are sufficient to expose christianity for the farce that it is."
I've seen the arguments against it, including those in your video. They're unconvincing. The strict naturalistic theories are plain ridiculous. My observations, reason, and experience lead me to Christianity. If yours lead you to atheism, by all means, go with that. I really wish you well.
heyalun 3 years ago
You've got me really curious since you speak so highly of science and the roll it plays in your thinking: What repeatable, testable science proves atheism?
heyalun 3 years ago
Its what science disproves within the "inerrant" bible (the origins of this planet & humankind, the function and description of stars, etc.) coupled with our facility for reason and plausible circumstances as well as a requisite level of proof and evidence that is comparable to that of science that precludes it as a possible divine source of knowledge.
That's not to say there aren't a few truisms contained within just like in other ancient religions (golden rule, be generous, etc.).
holysinecure 3 years ago
It's just not worthy of literal or partial adherence in my opinion.
Something that would compell me to adherence wouldn't be so flawed, have so many contradictions in it, or have sanctioned murder & rape.
I haven't stopped looking, I have just refined what I consider worthy of adherence and it is not the compulsory acceptance of predetermined human sacrifice on my behalf.
holysinecure 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"Its what science disproves"
I find that curious as abiogenesis has been disproved scientifically and all attempts at reproducing life or "protolife" in a sterile environment fail, yet you push that as your belief. It's testable, observable, and repeatable. I understand why you hope and let a priori beliefs guide you in the face of the contrary evidence though.
"I haven't stopped looking"
That's wise. I wish you well.
heyalun 3 years ago
The question is whether magic is more plausible than scientifically explainable phenomena (see Thunderf00ts latest vid).
You seem to be satisfied with the mystical & spooky, I am not.
The source of your desire to accept the spooky is the bible. There are too many errors and not enough prescient, hitherto unknown game changing ideas about altruism, benevolence, humility, and ideas like the golden rule. Though it has barbaric atrocities in spades.
It's simply not worthy of adherence.
holysinecure 3 years ago
I too wish you well in your honest search for the truth.
holysinecure 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"You seem to be satisfied with the mystical & spooky, I am not."
If it has been proven scientifically that life cannot arise in a sterile environment and you believe that it can, I don't know what you call the basis for your beliefs, but it ain't natural.
I watched the first 8 mins of the video you recommended and it's fluff. The findings of Pasteur against abiogenesis have stood for 150 years without any viable challenge.
heyalun 3 years ago
You don't have to hang your hat on abiogenesis as you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of natural phenomena in favor of magic, but feel free to address any other reference or claim the bible makes that science has proven to be wrong.
The funny thing is the first bit of the video is from a creationist video and you are not acknowledging that it is refuting the impossibility of abiogenesis based on flawed logic.
I also suggest AronRa's video "12th Foundation Falsehood of Creationism".
holysinecure 3 years ago
"you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of natural phenomena in favor of magic"
Where do you come up with these claims about what I believe? I never said this. Your comments give indication that you're not approaching this rationally.
"address any other reference or claim the bible makes that science has proven to be wrong"
For instance?
heyalun 3 years ago
Abiogenesis has *not* been disproven. It is a fertile ground of scientific inquiry to this day.
Louis Pasteur showed that maggots do not grow spontaneously from rotten meat. I suggest that you look more closely at what Abiogenesis entails as it is not what Pasteur studied. Abiogenesis is the field of science dedicated to studying how life might have arisen for the first time on the primordial young Earth
dyerasyd 3 years ago 3