70 Week Prophecy #2 - "Unto Messiah the Prince"

[sdurtka]

@GavinFinley - I do not think that God would give a command that we could not keep. I have heard from others that people who have researched your questions say that the same Sabbath that Jesus kept is the same as our Sabbath, from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Historically the Catholic church claimed they had changed the Sabbath on her own authority, an argument used by those in favor of church traditions and not the protestant Sola Scriptura at the Council of Trent.

[sdurtka]

The true Isreal of God is described in Revelation 14:12 in very clear terms: Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. In Revelation 12:17 God people are described as a remnant of her seed, that keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. It is clear that God's true church in the end time will be followers of Jesus AND keep all God's commandments, not the commandments of men.

[GavinFinley]

@sdurtka

Yes. love of God in the mercy of His salvation draws the saints into desiring to follow all the commandments. This is a matter of the heart. However, are we sure the Saturday begun by Rome at Nicaea when they switched from an 8 day week to a 7 day week follows the actual weekly cadence of Israel and returning Judah in the former times? And when Hillel 2 set forth the Hebrew calendar back in 383 A.D. did he establish the weekly cadence in synch with the Romans or Israel?

[GavinFinley]

The 7x7 =4 9 year period that starts off the Seventy sevens is as you alluded to, a reference to the Seventy Weeks prophecy beginning with a jubilee cycle in the prophetic agenda of God. The seventy weeks of 490 Biblical years are ten jubilee cycles and the future 70th week will be capped off by the epic future Year of Jubilee. This will be that awesome future Day of Atonement, the last day of this age that ends this present evil era and initiates the next age, the Millennium of Messiah.

[andrewprofit]

If your interpretation is correct why break the passage up between 7 7's and 62 7's why not just say 69 7's. The information in that is found in the next verse were one seven is for the ruler to come. Since 7 7's obviously refers to the measurement of Years god designed for his people before the jubilee year then the 62wks can easily be interpreted as a Jubilee year plus a few weeks. But Why. Because the body of Christ is cut off raptured 7 years before Jesus returns to rule over the earth.

[rkg62976]

Jesuit Futurism, begun by Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), states that the 1260 days are literal, and take place far into the future. Therefore, papacy cannot be antichrist.

Jesuit Preterism; Luis De Alcasar (1554-1613) states that the 1260 days are literal, and took place during the reign of Nero. Therefore, the papacy cannot be antichrist.

Rome, I'm sure, is happy to see so many Protestants being deceived by the false interpretation of the 1260 as being literal days.

[GavinFinley]

All that being understood, we cannot allow Church Tradition, even Church Tadition established by the Reformers, to supplant the Holy Scriptures. The Reformers themselves would agree with this. They lifted up the principle "Sol Scriptura", the Holy Scriptures alone! We do violence to their memory if we do not honor the watchword THEY THEMSELVES established.

[rkg62976]

If you think the 1260 time prophecies are literal days, then you are veering from the Refomers' view that this time-line should be taken as literal years. You take the Jesuit counter-reformation view on this matter. 'Sola Scriptura' is what I adhere to. This is not the question. I question your application of the Scriptures. I side with the Reformers, you side with the Jesuit counter-interpretation. Your 'argument' is a non-argument.

[GavinFinley]

If Futurism, lifted up by Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), states that the 1260 days are literal, and take place far into the future and therefore the papacy cannot be antichrist the all power to his interpretation. I agree with the Jesuit 100%. If his exegesis is a faithful interpretation of the Holy Scriptures in Rev. 12:6 and Rev. 12:14 then I care not what politico-religious ax he happens to have been grinding back 500 years ago.

THIS, my friend, is true SOL SCRIPTURA.

Are you up to it?

[rkg62976]

That is precisely my point. You side with the Jesuits over the Scriptural testimony.

Scripture itself uses the day/yr. principle: (Num.14:34; Ez.4:6; Dan.9:24-27...etc.) Even Jesus himself uses it: (Lk.13:32-33)--6 months into His ministry, Jesus tells the pharisees to tell Herod that He (Jesus) "..must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following..." Signifying that He had three more YEARS to minister and teach, before His crucifixion.

[GavinFinley]

Yes, we see day for a year and day for a thousand years in Holy Scripture. But in each case the text allows for such an interpretation.

But when the PLAIN SENSE of Holy Scripture makes GOOD SENSE, (as we see it in Revelation 12:6 and 12:14), then seek no OTHER SENSE, lest you slip off into NONSENSE.

[GavinFinley]

I care not whether the Jesuits happen to agree or the Reformers back then disagree with the literal sense of 1260 days = 1260 days.

The Bible stands.

And let the politico-religious chips fall where they may.

We are charged to prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good. Every sentence is a spirit seeking expression. And every sentence should be discerned and judged by Scripture and not just blindly accepted because it was a 500 year old anti-Catholic Reformer doctrine.

[GavinFinley]

Jesuit futurism is true to the Revelation 12 scripture we have been discussing.

So to Jesuit futurism I say "Bravo!"

Jesuit Preterism is an identification of Messiah as an abominator.

So to Jesuit Preterism I say "Heresy!"

Is Historicism in denying the future 70th Week in the same bed as Preterism?

If so, shouldn't we recant and refute Historicism since it flies in the face of Rev. 12:6 and Rev. 12:14 which nails down 1260 days as 3.5 Biblical years?

[GavinFinley]

I have great fondness for the Reformers and for our French Huguenot brethren who were almost wiped out at the St. Valentine's massacre in the late 1500's at the hands of the Jesuits and Machiavellian French Queen Catherine. But they did not have access to the information we have today. And they may have missed the significance of Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 and how these two verses describing the very same future Bozrah Exile positively locks the 1260 days to 3.5 Biblical years.

[rkg62976]

Did you not understand the quotes I gave you? To insist that any of the 1260 day time prophecies are literal days and not literal years, does violence to the memory of the great Reformers who, many times, gave their lives for the defensed of the truth of Scripture. You would rather follow the Scarlet Harlot's interpretation that has infected Biblical Protestantism. You are promulgating Jesuit lies with a veil of Protestantism. You have been rebuked! (2 Tim.4:2-4)

[GavinFinley]

What I am saying, if you can see it, is this. The 1260 day = 1260 year switch, is a HARLOT DOCTRINE! The Reformers did the best they could under the circumstances. The bloody persecutions of Rome were horrific. But THE HARLOT sneaked in on the Reformers and slopped in this historicist doctrine with one aim in mind. TO CONCEAL HERSELF FROM THE TRUE CHURCH IN THE LATTER DAYS! She is going to ride the ride the NWO Beast during the FIRST HALF of the future 7 years, the first half of the 70th Week..

[rkg62976]

You are calling the Reformers' doctrine 'Harlotry'. You have NO idea about the truth of biblical eschatology. I will pray for you. In Jesus' precious name, to the Glory of God.

[GavinFinley]

You seem to lift up the Reformers above all else.

So here is another question for you.

Did the Reformers restore the Sabbath?

I am a Sabbatarian, based upon the Holy Scriptures.

Perhaps you are too.

But our Reformist friends, while they brought out many wonderful treasures from God's Word did not restore the Sabbath. . . . . . Did they?

[GavinFinley]

You are free to rebuke me all you wish. But the Word of God is not bound! Here it is again.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty 1260 DAYS.

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, (3.5 YEARS) from the presence of the serpent.

[GavinFinley]

A child can see that the 3.5 years in verse 14 and the 1260 days in verse 6, both from Revelation 12, are from equivalent scriptures and that both verses are stating the very same thing.

The Holy Scriptures STAND!

And let God be true,

and every man a liar.

[rkg62976]

The 'woman in the wilderness' is the true Church fleeing for her spiritual (and physical) life during the 1260 yrs.

The 'two witnesses' (Rev.11), are the Old and New Testaments trodden down underfoot in the schools and universities of the apostate Roman church-state for 1260 yrs. This is Scriptural and historical truth! Amen.

[GavinFinley]

The Apostle John reports that the woman flees to the wilderness for for 1260 days, not 1260 years. This is confirmed in the verse 14 parallel scripture to be time, times and half a time or 3.5 Biblical years. This is our Rosetta Stone for the Biblical prophetic year. 1260 divided by 3.5 = 360 years. Sir Robert Anderson and faithful Biblical scholars in more modern times recognized the importance of Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 as a clincher for the 360 day Biblical year that God Almighty uses.

[GavinFinley]

Sorry,

1260 days divided by 3.5 = 360 days.

[GavinFinley]

Sorry, I meant St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre.

In the next century the Huguenots were pushed to the coast of Brittany. Cardinal Richelieu laid siege to them at La Rochelle. France lost her Reformers. And she lost the faithful Biblical Christian witness. All she got then was a Reign of Terror and the Napoleonic Wars. Pray God we do not suffer the same godless fate.

[GavinFinley]

When we look at Dan. 9:26 we see that after 7 + 62 = 69 weeks our Messiah is "cut off". executed, "given the chop". So the 70 weeks was given the chop at that point too.

And when? At 69 weeks.

So you are going to blithely carry on counting into the 70th week without pausing there at the execution of Messiah. Are you going to go against what the Holy Spirit in the Holy Scriptures is doing here?

[rkg62976]

Again, you fail to see the Messianic import of the whole of Dan.9:24-27. Messiah is 'cut off' AFTER the 69th week. That means, sometime AFTER. v.27 tells us exactly when this is, '...in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease..." This is in the middle of the 70th week and has NOTHING to do with antichrist.

[GavinFinley]

A plain man will read Daniel 9:26 and see that after the 69 weeks of years, that is AT the 69 Weeks of years, (483 Biblical years plus zero months, and plus zero days), Messiah will be cut off.

I am not judging you personally. But the teaching you are bringing out here seems to be slip-sliding in an extra 3.5 years and adding it to the 69 weeks (483 years) to make 69.5 Weeks before the cross. Is that a faithful exegesis do you think?

[rkg62976]

A plain man will realize the complete and total Messianic import in the totality of Dan.9:24-27, and not rely on his false traditions and engage in eisegesis of this important text. v.24 tells us, 'seventy weeks are determined', that is, 490 years continually, from beginning to end. My friend you are engaging in eisegesis. And you are leading others astray with your videos. The 3.5 yrs. is the first part of the 70th week, 'in the MIDST of the WEEK', is referring to the crucifixion.

[GavinFinley]

When you and I present before the Lord at the Bema Judgment we shall have to give an account of our witness here on earth. Punishment for false teachers will be very very severe. God spoke over and over about the sin of Jeroboam, leading God's people into sin and error. That is why we need to do our homework with all prayer and diligence in the Holy Scriptures. And that is why we must heckle the flax.

OK. Let's move on. Do you have that chronology?

[rkg62976]

I agree. And I am rebuking your false teaching about the prophecy of Dan.9:24-27. You fall into the same tradition of the erroneous position of the dispensational/futurist camp, even if you are post-trib.

[GavinFinley]

I am not a dispensationalist. But I am a pre-mil post-trib futurist affirming a future 70th Week. This is based on a plain man's reading of Dan. 9:26-27 and a chronology with confidence limits of 2 days or so over 173,880 days or 1 in 100,000 accuracy linking Nisan 2 of Nehemiah's 445 B.C. year to Nisan 10 of 32 A.D., Palm Sunday.

[rkg62976]

This is because you make the assumption that the ancient middle eastern people did not use a solar yearly calendar. So you have to change the 483 yrs.(69 wks.) into 476 yrs. But the historic evidence speaks to the contrary. No one in the ancient mid-east is proven to have used a lunar yearly calendar of 360 days. They used a lunar monthly calendar, but always added days to come to a 365.25 day solar year. Your interpretation in flawed! You are a dispensationalist in this respect.

[GavinFinley]

You stated, "

"No one in the ancient mid-east is proven to have used a lunar yearly calendar of 360 days."

Quite so.

But that is irelevant. The question is what calendar does God use? The answer is in Revelation 12:6 and 12:14. See my video # 3 on Biblical time.

[rkg62976]

God does not use a yearly calendar in His prophecies. That is why the day/year principle is employed in Rev.11:2,3; 12:6,14; 13:5 Dan.7:25; 12:7. All these are day/year. So, a literal 1,260 YEARS, not 3.5 yrs. This is what I've been trying to explain to you. Only dispensationalist/futurists make a big deal about the lunar/solar calendar date for the 490 yr. prophecy. That is why it needs to be rebuked.

[GavinFinley]

This is interesting. Every one of the seven scriptures the Holy Spirit gives us to measure out the last 3.5 years of this age your teaching has removed, spirited away, and for no reason what soever. Was it the Millerites who re-engineered the 1260 days as 1260 years and not accepted the plain reading of Holy Writ?

[GavinFinley]

Look at Revelation 12:6 and 12:14. They BOTH describe the very same 3.5 year 1260 day exile of God's covenant people at the end of this age. This is during very same 42 Biblical (30 day) month period as the 3.5 year reign of the Antichrist in as we see it stated in Rev. 13:5 and Daniel 12:7 and the end-time trampling of Jerusalem we see in Rev. 11:2.

[rkg62976]

George Pacard (d.1610), deals with the duration determined by God (Dan.7:25; 12:5; Rev.13:5; 12:4..etc.), taking the three and a half times, 42 months, and 1260 days as the same time period---and as YEARS according to the inspired prophetic reckoning. [Description of the Antichrist and of His Kingdom, p.314-317].

This is why your system fails, you attempt to overlap the last week of Daniel's prophecy with the 1260 days/years. The two have NOTHING to do with one another.

[GavinFinley]

1260 days, or years? We have two verses, Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 12:14, which the Holy Spirit has given to us. BOTH verses are describing the flight and exile of the woman, (and in Scripture we consistently see the woman as God's covenant people), during the latter half of the 70th Week, the final 3.5 years of this age. Verse 6 states 1260 days. Verse 14 states time, times and half a time or 3.5 Biblical years. This is our Rosetta Stone for Biblical prophetic time.

3.5 yrs = 1260 days.

[rkg62976]

This is your problem. You consider the 1260 to be a part of the last week of Dan.9:24-27. They have NOTHING to do with one another. The 1260 yr. time period is of utmost importance for us to recognized. Many of the great Reformers saw that the 1260 equals literal years, not days. This was established long before the Millerite movement of the 1830's.

Eg.) Francios Du Jon (1545-1602) Huguenot leader, wrote, "Daies is commonly taken for yeares.." [The Apocalypse of St. John, p.30]

[GavinFinley]

How can the crucifixion be at 69 weeks as the Holy Spirit tells us in Dan. 9:26 and also be at 69.5 weeks as you have asserted?

[rkg62976]

Why are you misrepresenting my position? I stated clearly that the crucifixion occurs in the midst of the 70th week, that is 3.5 yrs. into the 7-yr., 70th week. Are you trying to misrepresent me on purpose?

Not very Christian of you, "thou shalt not bear false witness.."

[GavinFinley]

I am a reasonable man. But these are blood covenant issues. The saints need faithful markers and guideposts as they come into the end times. The Old Testament record shows that God hates those who remove His markers. If the 70th Week is such a marker we sure as heaven had better get it right and not mess with it.

OK.

A simple question.

Does the 69 weeks end, terminate, with Messiah being cut off?

Or not?

[rkg62976]

Have I not been clear about my position? What is it that you are not getting? The 69th week ends when Jesus is baptized, then the 70th week begins with His 3.5 yr. ministry. In the middle of the final 7 yrs., Messiah is 'cut off' (which is after the 69 weeks, 3.5 yrs. after). For the final 3.5 yrs. of the last 7 yrs., the apostles preach mainly to the Jews. Then, with the stoning of Stephen (Acts 7), the 490 yrs. is fulfilled. The Gospel goes to the Gentiles and all the world. Praise Him!

[GavinFinley]

Daniel 9:26

"And after 62 weeks Messiah shall be cut off."

[GavinFinley]

Lets call it quits for tonight.

I'll be looking for that chronology tomorrow.

BTW. Are you an SDA minister?

[GavinFinley]

Good morning.

Please see my comments above concerning the 1260 days. Would you like to talk about that?

[rkg62976]

The 490 years is very important. The 490 yrs. are consecutive and continuous. There is NO reason to insert a gap between the 483rd year and the 484th year. Otherwise the 484th year cannot rightly be called the 484th year. Follow?

[GavinFinley]

Arguing about calendars and who used them when and where is beside the point. In the 70 Weeks prophecy God Almighty has issued a chronology to us of 70 sevens or 490 years. God Himself is in focus here. What calendar does HE use? Does God issue time based on a 365.2422 day calendar? Or a 360 day calendar? That is the question.

[rkg62976]

This is precisely why the day/year principle is so important to understand. God knew there would be arguments about a calendar date, so He employed the day/year principle. This still doesn't change the fact that you cannot convert 483 yrs.(69 wks.) down to 476 yrs. based on an erroneous assumption that the Jews did not use a 365.25 day solar yearly canlendar.

[GavinFinley]

Do you have your chronology of the 70 Weeks ready to run out from your 457 B.C. date?

And is it based on 365.2422 day years or 360 day years?

[rkg62976]

Bottom line: the 'gap' theory is based upon a huge assumption. In the Word of God, there is not such 'gap' intimated in any of His prophecies. The 70 weeks are to be taken as consecutive weeks, otherwise the 70th week cannot logically be called the 70th week. If it is thrown out some 2,000 yrs. into the future, then it is NOT the 70th week, because it doesn't follow the 69th week. Get it?

[GavinFinley]

The gap is there in Dan. 9:27 at the end of the 69 weeks with Messiah and His being "cut off" or executed. . The gap is right and proper. And why? Because there are two comings of Messiah. On Palm Sunday 2,000 years ago Messiah came that first time at the end of the 69 weeks as the Suffering Servant in His priestly role. When He comes next time it will be in His political role as Conquering King. And yes, this will be at the end of the second chunk, the future 70th Week.

[rkg62976]

Failure once again. Daniel's prophecy in no way mentions 'palm Sunday'. Rather, the prophecy is 'to anoint the most Holy'. This is speaking about Jesus' baptism, NOT the triumphal entry into Jerusalem. 'to seal up the vision and PROPHET', is speaking of the last prophet to the nation of Israel, Stephen, being stoned in Acts 7. This is when the prophecy is complete. Your 'tradition' continues to get in the way of proper biblical exegesis in this passage of Dan.(9:24-27).

[GavinFinley]

Sealling up vision and prophecy will come with all 70 weeks. Lets's look at the relevant verse. The 69 week prophecy we see in in Dan. 9:25 says, 25 Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem UNTIL MESSIAH THE PRINCE, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

There was only one day in which Jesus presented Himself politically and Messianically as MESSIAH THE PRINCE. That was Palm Sunday.

[rkg62976]

The 69th week ends with the baptism of Jesus, NOT His triumphal entry. The 70th week then begins. Jesus' ministry last 3.5 yrs. and He is crucified.  Then, for the last 3.5 yrs. of the 70th week, the apostles preach mainly to Jews (as 490 years were determined for them). The last 3.5 yrs. ends with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. Stephen gives a covenantal lawsuit against the nation of Israel, he becomes the last PROPHET to Israel. 'to seal up the vision and PROPHET' v.24.

[GavinFinley]

Dan. 9:25 shows us the 69th week ending with the prophetic stipulation "UNTO MESSIAH THE PRINCE". You say this prophecy was satisfied by the baptism of Jesus and not Palm Sunday and Jesus's triumphant entry on that day as Messiah. How was that ministry baptism in any way a political or Messianic presentation of Jesus?

You will have to prove it with your chronology.

Do you have it?

[rkg62976]

"Unto Messiah the Prince" is in reference to His formal baptism and the beginning of His ministry. Jesus did NOT come as a political leader, but a spiritual one.

The beginning of the 483 starts with the first decree from Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. The 70th week begins in 27 A.D. with the anointing of the most Holy (Jesus). Jesus and the apostles fulfill the last week of the prophecy. This math lines up, yours does not.

[GavinFinley]

You stated,

"Unto Messiah the Prince" is in reference to His formal baptism and the beginning of His ministry. Jesus did NOT come as a political leader, but a spiritual one. "

My comment on that is as follows.

You are right .

Jesus did not come as a political leader 2,000 years ago. He came as the Suffering Servant riding upon a donkey.

But what about next time? See Isaiah 63, Micah 2:12-13,

Do you know what the word Messiah means?

Have you heard Handel's Messiah?

[rkg62976]

Nothing to do with our discussion.

[GavinFinley]

This distinction between Messiah's two comings, first as the Suffering Servant, Lamb of God in a priestly role and then 2,000 years later in His Second coming in His Kingdom role is the Conquering King, (a political role) is quite germaine to this discussion. Politics is the key essence of the 70th Week. The Kingdom of Messiah is being announced, even the Gospel of the Kingdom. The world, and the harlot church, hates this truth and wants to hide it.

[rkg62976]

457 B.C.--Artaxerxes granted the Jews by decree signal spiritual, civil, and judicial privileges amounting to autonomy under the larger umbrella of the Persian empire. Such privileges had been unknown to the Jews since their subservience to the Neo-Babylonian empire. The rebuilding activity of the city of Jerusalem suggests that royal consent was implied by Artaxerxes' mandate (Ezra 7; 4:12). 457 B.C. stands as the only decree from which to begin Daniel's prophecy.

[GavinFinley]

OK your starting date for the Seventy Weeks prophecy and timeline is somewhere in 457 B.C.

What day and what month might that be?

[rkg62976]

Ezra 7:9 tells us that he started out from Babylon on the first day of the first month, but that he arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month. This is as amazingly detailed description given by Ezra. Neh.2, however, only tells us that it was the 'month' of Nisan (first month), and doesn't tell us the exact day. Even dispensationalists admit they are speculating upon the exact day for the commencement of the prophecy.

[GavinFinley]

The departure date is helpful. But the 70 weeks prophecy stipulates "from the EDICT or command to restore and build Jerusalem". Regarding the decree given to Ezra do you have a specific date for that decree?

[rkg62976]

I believe the text speaks for itself: "...on the first day of the fifth month came he (Ezra) to Jerusalem." (Ezra 7:9) This would have been the date the decree went into effect.

[GavinFinley]

If you look carefully through Ezra chapter 7 you will not see a date for the edict or authorization for the return of exiles from Babylon. Nor will you see an edict or a "command to restore and build Jerusalem" that the text of the 70 week prophecy calls for..

[rkg62976]

In fact there are NO explicit proclamations in the texts of either Ezra or Nehemiah. We must look at, first: the only two principle or leading decrees. 1 from Cyrus, and the 1st on from Artaxerxes. Second, we must deduce which one is more logical, historically and mathematically, to see its fulfillment of the Messianic import of Dan.9:24-27. If we base our interpretation upon the assumption that antichrist is spoken of in 9:27, it will cause a serious flaw in our interpretation.

[rkg62976]

457 B.C. is the starting point of the 490 yrs. There is no reason to insert a 'gap' between the 69th and 70th weeks. Add 483 yrs. to 457 B.C., and you come to 27 A.D.---Jesus' baptism and the beginning of His 3.5 yr. ministry. He is crucified in the midst of the final week, and for 3.5 subsequent yrs. the apostles preach mainly to the Jews. The final week ends with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. Stephen became the last of the prophets to Israel as a nation.

[GavinFinley]

The 70 weeks prophecy in Dan. (24-27 stipulates that the edict must give authority to "restore and build Jerusalem". The Ezra return in 457 did not do this. It centered around a Biblical/Torah revival. Ezra's return still left the gates, (the town hall) and the walls in ruins. We know this from what Nehemiah says in Nehemiah 2, the edict of 445 B.C. THAT was the correct edict.

[rkg62976]

The purpose of Nehemiah's journey was at first secret. Only gradually were his plans to rebuild made public (Neh.2:11-18) The memoirs of Nehemiah stress that the work concentrated primarily on the wall and gates of Jerusalem, rather than on the city proper (Neh.2:17; 3:1-4; 20; 6:1-15). Nehemiah and the Jews' efforts were to REPAIR the walls and gates, indicating that it had already been completed beforehand, this took only 52 days (less than 2 months).

[GavinFinley]

Nehemiah mourned that the walls of the city of Jerusalem were broken down and the gates were burned with fire. The city was NOT functioning as an independent city-state in 445 B.C. When He went to the Medo-Persian superpower and king Artaxerexes asking to restore the city he was in mortal fear. This was no "patch-up" repair job. This edict was hugely important and the the ONLY permission given to restore Jerusalem's gates, the place where the city government was situated. See video #1.

[rkg62976]

First, the "decree" in Neh.2 is NOT a decree, but a 'letter'. This hardly constitutes a sealed, kingly decree as such we have in Ezra 7. Second, the rebuilding of Jerusalem was under way already in the time of Ezra (see Ezra 9:9; 4:7-23). Ezra 7, once again, stands as the only decree in which the Jews were given permission to set their own judges and magistrates in their own land: spiritual, civil, and judicial.

Also, your math will not add up properly if you begin in 445/444 B.C.

[GavinFinley]

OK you are on.

Please lay out your chronology from your 457 B.C. starting time and a Hebrew calendar date for the edict given to Ezra. Then show us where it ends on a given Hebrew day, month, and year.

Will you be using Solar 365.242199 day years or 360 day years?

[rkg62976]

Dispensational/futurists attempt to turn the 483 yrs.(69 wks.) into 476 solar years based on the false assumption that the Jews used a lunar/yearly calendar. But this is flawed because no ancient nation is known to have employed a 360-day year in complete disregard for a 365.25 day solar cycle. They used a lunar MONTHLY calendar, but a solar yearly one. Various devices were used in these nations to bring about an approximation to the 365.25 days of the solar year.

[GavinFinley]

Letters? Yes, we can see that the kings decree, and a decree is a royal decision to enact something, was enacted and authorized through letters.

[rkg62976]

The word used in Neh.2:8 for 'letter' is 'iggereth', and means: an epistle (as carried by a state courier or postman. Whereas the word found in Ezra 7 for 'decree' has a more powerful meaning. The word is 'tem' or 'taam' meaning: a judicial decree or COMMANDMENT. It is a very forceful word as compared to a simple 'letter', even from a king. Gavin, you're really grasping at straws to hold on to your 'tradition' over the plain truth of the Scriptures.

[GavinFinley]

A plain man's reading of both the Ezra and Nehemiah decrees will reveal that a king made a decision of great import on both occasions. Then he and set about assuring that the edict was enacted as the travelers journeyed out from Babylon and back to Jerusalem. As described earlier the edict given to Nehemiah was a blockbuster. It authorized the restoration of the walls and the town hall, (the gates), the contol points into and out of the city of Jerusalem.

[rkg62976]

Emotions do not determine truth. Yes, Nehemiah is lamenting over Jerusalem. In fact, he gives a beautiful prayer in Neh.1:4-11 (one that we should all pray on occasion). But that fact remains, Artaxerxes response is NOT a formal decree, but a 'letter'. Your response seems to focus on the 'emotion' of the incident, rather than the historical truthfulness of the fact that this was not a principle or 'leading' decree.

[GavinFinley]

The edict of Artaxerxes Longimanus in his 20th year, Nisan of 445 B.C. given to Nehemiah was not just an emotional matter. It was a blood covenant matter in which emotions as well as thoughts and action were all involved. Nehemiah could have lost his life when he asked for this historic pivotal permission to have Jewish sovereignty restored to Jerusalem.

[rkg62976]

The 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy has absolutely nothing to do with end time eschatology. This prophecy was fulfilled long ago. However, there are plenty of prophecies about antichrist that are happening right now. The antichrist's false prophet is working presently, to enforce the Mark of the beast. Christians are being deceived about a pre-trib. rapture, 7-yr. period of tribulation, and about the truth of what antichrist is.

[rkg62976]

Dispensational/futurism's failure to recognize the Messianic import inherent in the prophecy of Dan.9:24-27, leads to all sorts of distortions about end times eschatological events. There were two main schools of prophetic interpretation during the counter-reformation: Preterism and Futurism. Both of these methods were re-established by the Jesuits in order to counter the claims of the Reformers that the Papacy was the 'man of sin, son of perdition' (2Thes.2:3). This video leads to futurism.

[rkg62976]

This video presents the assumption that there is a 'gap' between the 69th and the 70th weeks of the prophecy. But no such gap is intimated in Daniel's vision. Rather, there is a continuity of the 490 yrs. Jesus Himself fulfills the first 3.5 yrs of the 70th week; the apostles preaching mainly to Jews for the next 3.5 yrs., fulfill the remainder. There is no 'time' left in this prophecy yet to be fulfilled.

[GavinFinley]

Daniel 9:26-27

26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

Scripture shows a gap at the end of the 62 weeks with Messiah being executed. One week is left. The "he" refers to the coming prince. (bad guy)

[rkg62976]

Dan.9:24-27 has absolutely nothing to do with antichrist. It has everything to do with Jesus Christ! This is a Messianic prophecy, not one about antichrist. There are plenty of other prophecies about the 'man of sin.' He is called the 'little horn' (Dan.7), the 'sea beast' (Rev.13:1-10), and the 'scarlet harlot' (Rev.17). The time for his reign is 1260 prophetic days, or 1260 literal years. Dispensational/futurism is NOT Protestant, historically speaking.

[GavinFinley]

The historicist view is that the 70th Week of Daniel has already been fulfilled. This is a Reformist view common in the 1500's. They saw papacy as both the Antichrist and the Harlot. They saw 1260 days as 1260 years. But what does the Bible say?

[GavinFinley]

Revelation 12:6

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

(NKJV)

Revelation 12:14

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, (3.5 Biblical years), from the presence of the serpent.

[rkg62976]

Yes, the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled in the 3.5 yr. earthly ministry of Jesus, and the subsequent 3.5 yrs. of preaching by the apostles, mainly to Jews. This ended with the death of the last prophet to Israel; Stephen, in Acts 7. Dan.9:24 says, '...to seal up the vision and PROPHET...' most modern translations render it this, correct way. Stephen, when he gave a covenantal lawsuit against Israel for her rejection of Messiah, became the last prophet to Israel.

[GavinFinley]

So you are a full Preterist.

See EndTimePilgrim . org / preterism . htm

So you see no future 70th Week, no future Great Tribulation?

Do you see an end-time drama or end-time refining?

Do you believe in a future return of Christ from heaven and His bodily return to earth to rule for a thousand literal years?

[rkg62976]

"thou shalt NOT bear false witness.." I am NOT a preterist. As I have stated clearly, both dispensational futurism and preterism (partial preterism included) are false eschatological systems. You take the common futurist interpretation, that is what we are discussing. Preterists are equally deceived. There is nowhere intimated in the text of Scripture a 7-yr. period of tribulation. It is the result of a misinterpretation of Dan.9:24-27. Be careful with your accusations.

[GavinFinley]

OK, be that as it may.

You say you are not a Preterist.

Or you are keen to disavow yourself of that belief since the Church has used the "h" word to describe such a belief system.

But nevertheless, the 70th Week of Daniel is either past or future, correct? You say that it is past like the Preterists do.

I am open to new understanding and I am not judging you. But we are charged to search the Scriptures and prove all things.

How does the belief you are teaching differ from Preterism?

[rkg62976]

The preterist scheme is generally an Amillennial one. That is, they don't really believe that the 70 weeks are a literal 490 years. But their views vary on this topic.

Dispensational/futurists begin the 69 wks.(483 yrs.) from the wrong date and decree from Artaxerxes. The true starting point is his first decree in 457 B.C. If we add 483 yrs. to this date, we come to A.D. 27, the date of the 'anointing of the Most Holy', Jesus. He then begins His 3.5 yr. ministry.

[GavinFinley]

Very well, you are not Ammillennial or Post-Millennial. You read Revelation 20 and see a future Millennium of Messiah and a literal 1000 years of His earthly reign and ministry. But you see no future 70th Week since you say it ran out with the stoning of Stephen.

Let's cut to the chase. Do you see a future Great Tribulation as spoken of by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse? What sort of a transition do you see for us as Christian believers as world history comes into the Millennium of Messiah?

[rkg62976]

First, I never said anything about an EARTHLY reign during the millennium. That is more dispensational/futurist fallacy. Upon Christ's 2nd Advent, the wicked living will be slain, the dead 'in Christ' raised, and the living 'in Christ' will be changed and all the redeemed are caught up together at the same time. The millennial reign is HEAVENLY, not earthly. The 2nd Advent and the rapture are the SAME event, not different. Yes, living Christians will go through great tribulation.

[rkg62976]

Indeed, there will be a great tribulation. But nowhere in the text of Scripture is it intimated to be a time period of 7 yrs. This false doctrine is the result of a misinterpretation of Dan.9:24-27. The 70 weeks was Messianic in nature, and had nothing to do with antichrist. Unfortunately, many are being deceived by a pre-trib. rapture theory, 7-yr. period of trib., and the rise of a future "Mr.Diabolical" called 'the beast'. Nothing could be further from the truth, however.

[GavinFinley]

You also see a future Great Tribulation. But not a future 70th Week of Daniel. Interesting. So how long will this Tribulation last in your view?

[rkg62976]

The Historicist view (which I believe to be the most biblically consistent view of prophecy), states that we are living in the 7th Church age (Laodicea), the period between the 6th and 7th seals, and between the 6th and 7th trumpets. The 7 vials of wrath are to be pored out when the Mark of the beast is enforced by the laws instituted by the 'earth beast' or 'false prophet'.

[GavinFinley]

What is the mark of the beast in your view?

And what is the enforcement of the mark of the Beast by the False Prophet as you see it?

[rkg62976]

That being said, I believe the vials of God's wrath, and the gathering of the elect, will only take about 7 literal days. Using the day/year principle, the Scripture saith, "there was silence in heaven the space of half an hour." (Rev.8:1). 'Half an hour' would be equivalent to 7 literal days. Mt.24:21-22 states that 'those days shall be shortened for the elect's sake'. Jesus is clearly speaking of both the temple destruction AND the last days events; combining them in ONE prophecy. Genius!

[GavinFinley]

Once you render the Future 70th Week a thing of the past, (and the word Preterite means "past"), eschatology becomes a sea of confusion.

The term "Preterist" is taken from the Hebrew language's "Preterite" tense, which is the "past perfect" sense, in terms of once for all completion or accomplishment. When applied to Bible Prophecy, the term has reference to the 70th week events being fulfilled, completed, accomplished in the past. So I lump Historicists and Preterists together.

[GavinFinley]

So who is it that confirms the 7 year covenant we see outlined for us in Daniel 9:27 in your view?

[rkg62976]

Only God ever 'confirms a covenant' with anyone. Antichrist never does this. So, the 'he' spoken of here, is none other than the Son of God himself, Jesus Christ. The chiastic literary structure of Dan.9:24-27 is very sophisticated, and it should be noted that v.26 and v.27 should be read side-by-side with one another.

[GavinFinley]

You stated, "Only God ever 'confirms a covenant' with anyone. Antichrist never does this."

Why wouldn't the false messiah Jesus spoke about in John 5:43 confirm a covenant? How else would a false messiah/Antichrist get power over "many" without making a deal with the "many"? Is this something you were taught didactically? Do you have scriptural support for that statement?

[rkg62976]

Your argument is flawed. You are attempting to force me to argue something that is not told to us from Scripture. You must prove your assertion, whereas I cannot prove something that isn't even found in the text of Holy Writ. The antichrist nowhere makes a 'covenant' with anyone; that is the biblical truth. If you think otherwise, the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Prove your assertion, as I have already rebuked your misuse of Dan.9:27.

[GavinFinley]

There are more evil religious spirits swarming around that pivotal scripture Daniel 9:27 than any other. That is why we need to stick to the text and believe what the Holy Spirit in the Bible is telling us. Let us look first at Daniel 9:26 then Dan. 9:27

[GavinFinley]

26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;  And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

[GavinFinley]

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,  Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.

[GavinFinley]

Dan 9:26 shows us Messiah cut off at the end of the 69 weeks. This is confirmed by the Chronology of Sir Robert Anderson sowing the 69 weeks terminate on Palm Sunday. Accuracy? 99.999%.

[rkg62976]

Hey, man, I hear you, brother. In fact, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there is actually a Rabbinic curse from the Talmud placed upon anyone who seeks to discover the truth about Dan.9:24-27. Why? Because they knew that this was a Messianic prophecy. They knew it pointed to the exact date of Jesus' baptism, ministry, death, and resurrection. They knew that after this, the Jews would no longer be under any special care from God. I can give you the exact quote if you want.

[GavinFinley]

Yes. Maimonides was the Jewish scholar in question. And yes, Daniel 9:26-27 and the 70 Weeks Prophecy is the Battlestar Galactica of eschatology.

[faithful827]

has the 70th week already taken place ?

[GavinFinley]

Dominion theology does not want a future 70th Week or any concerns being made about the Church neeing any further refining. They do not want anything interfering with their plans for a world takeover by the Church.

[faithful827]

why would the His Church need any refining? it contains the fullness of TRUTH

[GavinFinley]

Preterists and partial preterists see no end time restoration of Israel or any necessity for the Church to be refined of its spots, wrinkles, and general harlotry. Nor do they see any necessity for any preparation of the saints to bring in the end time witness..

[faithful827]

gavein , i have no idea who these kingdom now people are you are talking about, or what the dominion theology is that you reference... what i do know is what His Church teaches regarding the "end of times" ... all else is shifting sand

[GavinFinley]

Which Church are you referring to? The Apostle John saw 2 Churches. One Church, in Revelation 12 was the woman of wonder, crowned with a diadem of 12 stars, aglow with the Light of the Father, the moon of reflected light under her feet threatened by the dragon and under travail or tribulation. John saw another woman, another Church, in Revelation 17. She was an unfaithful harlot riding the end-time beast with 10 horns.

[faithful827]

Gavin, there is only ONE True Church of our Lord ... once you discover that, you will have found the fullness of truth that is inherent ONLY in His Church

[positron66]

The true church will obey Yeshua as the Lord and Savior of all. Follow all the teachings of Yeshua. See my video response above. Thanks.

[faithful827]

especially that very very important literal teaching in John 6... does your "church" follow that teaching?

[GavinFinley]

Quite so. The God of Israel as never established an apartheid policy in His congregation, His "called out assembly" or ekklesia. He has one single undivided Elect. See

endtimepilgrim . org / elect . htm

And Christ, the promised Seed of Abraham will come to gather His Elect precisely when He said He would. At the last day of this age. See

endtime pilgrim . org / posttribrap . htm

[faithful827]

@GavinFinley He does indeed...the One He established and authorized which began in the upper room at pentecost with Peter as He Leader... how can one be a member in full communion with the Body of Christ without actually accepting , believing and following ALL that His Church teaches

[GavinFinley]

"The Church", so-called, is still a semi-reformed medieval politic with a virtually non-existent Israelology. The Holy Scriptures declare that

Jesus/Yeshua is our one and only mediator. See 1Tim. 2:5 We do not need human popes or five-fold pyramids.

God knows who belongs to His true Elect and Chosen Congregation. Our Messiah's "Church in the wilderness" began long before Pentecost, back at Sinai. See Acts 7:38 The prophet Jeremiah spoke of the New Covenant back in the 8th century B.C.

[faithful827]

@GavinFinley i'm familiar with 1 Tim 2:5...are you familiar with the FACT that the verse refers to our Lord being sole mediator of our REDEMPTION...which of course, the Catholic Church believes

that's what prophets do...tell you what will come..just keep telling yourself what "church" is gavin...but remember it was our Lord who gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and told him that "he who hears you , hears Me"... apparently you are just not listening very well...or don't like what you hear

[chopthehay]

blutius: "Dan. 9:2 has nothing to do with Dan. 9:24".

Yes it does,  The first verses serve as an introduction -

where Y = a full year {definitive} W = a full set of seven {Greek: "week"} H = a group of sevens {Greek: 'heptad"}

(continued)

[blutius]

where does it say that a "seven" means a "week". and where does it say that a "week" equals a week of years. all of the references i've ever seen are very weak, almost lame they're so weak. somehow Daniel was supposed to knw them? but this whole prophecy rests on that very weak assumption. it's easy to ignore it, as you did, but it leaves questions unanswered.

[GavinFinley]

The word "week" in Hebrew is "Shabuwa" which means "seven".

[blutius]

if "week" means the number 7, how does one jump to a completely different meaning of "7 years"? if shabuwa means week in Hebrew, then a week is 7 DAYS. why would anyone interpolate it to mean 7 YEARS? that makes no sense to do that.

[GavinFinley]

A "week" is a "seven" .

Some people will have a problem with that.

And some people will not.

Gavin

[blutius]

I have no problem with a week meaning seven. my problem is with a week meaning 7 YEARS. i've looked for a good explanation in other places and haven't found it. i've asked you, a seemingly knowledgeable man, but you give no explanation for it AT ALL. it's too important to just gloss over.

[chopthehay]

blutiues, Daniel had been thinking in terms of periods of seven years, specifically ten of them (Dan.9:1-2). This was the length of the captivity determined by his people's violation of the sabbatic year (cf. 2 Chron.36:21; Jer.25:11-12). Seven sevens can mean 49 days or 49 years, but in terms of Daniel's prophecy, the former does not fit the chronology, since seven periods of days does not leave room for its fulfillment

or allow enough time to embrace all the events specified.

[blutius]

Dan. 9:2 has nothing to do with Dan. 9:24. they took place yrs apart. i stated above that i can buy the argument that "7" means a week, but i don't buy it meaning "a week of years". there's no solid basis for that... to say that IT IS just because the numbers seem to work out is not a good argument. to me, the numbers don't work at all, because it's been almost 2,500 yrs since the 70 "weeks" supposedly began. "70 weeks are determined for thy people (including a 2,000 yr pause) doesn't make sense

[chopthehay]

(A)

9:2 => 70Y

then

(B) 9:24 => 70Y x 7W = 70H = 7W + 62W + 1W

such that for each definitive year served, the Hebrews will see a set of 7s (a week) to complete the transgression (seven means perfection) and finish the cycle (v.24).

[GavinFinley]

Hi Birdiegirl,

Yes, coming up. I am an anesthesiologist and a bit too busy for my liking. The next video is part 3 on Biblical Time which I have recorded already. Part 4 will be on the chronology of the seventy weeks prophecy.

[kevinscholes]

sorry my mouse slipped i rated you 1 its very good a 5 star really

[xena1973]

Excellent I always had questions ???regarding 70th week of Daniel being a future event.

[tonythatjesusloves]

your idea that the 70th week is in the future makes no sense and really it is hard to see how you justify it , I dont understand your motivation for this ????

[GavinFinley]

Hi Tony,

It appears that you go with the preterist belief that there is no future 70th Week. Do you have a chronology? We need one that comes in with a 99.999% accuracy as Sir Robert Anderson presented. And what was the epic significant climactic event that marked the end of those 70 Weeks if, (as you say), Daniel's prophecy ended two millennia ago?

[tonythatjesusloves]

the 70 week prophecy ended 2000 years ago, it was a prophecy concerning Daniels people , and not gentiles, i believe we are near the end of the book of revelations and am not a pre-trib rapturist.

I do see the Catholic church as the beast system, however see the majority of chrisigdom as mystery babylon ,

I am very interested in Daniel and revelation and have been trying to understand them for a while now and am dismayed at the amount of disagreement ,

[tonythatjesusloves]

mark 15 after Jesus was baptised he said "and saying -- `Fulfilled hath been the time, and the reign of God hath come nigh, reform ye, and believe in the good news."

dan 9:26 and AFTER the 62( 62 +7) weeks Messiah will be cut off after suggests were in the in the '70th week

in this week he brings an end to sacrifice, which Christ did , the temple veil ripped from top to bottom

this prophecy is concerning the Jews and Christs new

[GavinFinley]

Hi Tony,

The word "gentile" means heathen. Our apostle Paul tells us that Christian believers were once heathen gentiles but now have been brought nigh into the Commonwealth (or citizenship) (Gr. polity) of Israel. This means that Christian believers are indeed in Daniel's people and must assume responsibility for all that this means.

[tonythatjesusloves]

Dan 9

5we have sinned, and done perversely, and done wickedly, and rebelled, to turn aside from Thy commands, and from Thy judgments: 6and we have not hearkened unto Thy servants, the prophets, who have spoken in Thy name unto our kings, our heads, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

Daniel is making supplication on behalf of his people the Jews

and at this time the Jews were a separate people ,set aside in covenant with God , and we werent we were grafted on latter ,

[christiaan457]

all scripture need the holy spirit ,without it we will shipwreck.

The 70 weeks are finished at the time of stoning of steven.

[GavinFinley]

See my comment and questions to Tony above.

[TheLORDismySheperd1]

Great job! God bless you as you do HIS WILL :)

[Iwishyouallwell]

What if the afro americans are the israelites?

When the israelites return to israel, the end time shall come to pass.

Thats why nothing happened until now. They are not yet in Israel

[GavinFinley]

Dear Iwishyouallwell,

When John saw the remnant of Israel in Revelation 7 they were from every nation, race and tribe. Yes, Afro-Americans will be among them, if they know the indwelling Christ. The remnant of Israel comes in through a field of tribulation with our Messiah who is the Door of the sheepfold. All races, as we know them, will be represented in that final glorious company.

[GavinFinley]

Pt. 2

So being in the final restored remnant Israel, like being in the remnant Congregation/Church of Israel, is not a matter of race. Rather, it is a relationship by grace through faith in our Messiah. He is the seed of Abraham. Without Him we have no hope. Our Apostle Paul tells us that we were once godless heathen "outside the Commonwealth of Israel. But now, in Christ, we have been brought near". (Eph. 2:12-13 and Gal. 3:29)

[WONDAWOMAN]

When you say "The church" who are you talking about? I have NEVER heard it taught that the first half of Daniel's 70 weeks had already passed. I have always been taught that God had a covenant & last day dealing with Israel. It is even in Revelation that there would be 144,00 remnant of Israel, did it not? All these other beliefs are news to me.

[GavinFinley]

Yes Wondawoman, some people are saying just that. They want the future seven years of trials and revelations and glories to "go away". If they cant' hide away the full 7 years they'll try to hide half of it. The doctrines of Dominion Theology and Kingdom Now do not want to hear of anything that might interfere with their triumphalist agenda for the present day western church.

[Larryd1001]

I have really enjoyed your video's please keep

the prophecy video coming!!!

[queendivine7]

The body of christ needs these revelations. May Yahweh bless you as you take us through to the 3rd chapter...

[beyondcamp]

Interesting stuff Gavin. Well researched and conveyed. Looking forward to Part Three.

Blessings,

Tom.

[boltingpuppies]

Amen