Democracy and militarism

[calimerovisa]

Making a democracy with the iron fist.... The sins of american fathers will be payed by their children !!!

[JasonDamisch]

Democracy requires militarism. Ancient Greece voted on who to go to war with and when. After which they employed private mercenaries for such said task. So, really there is no such thing as Right or Left, there is only an illusion of a political spectrum. All who are well off are the masters of all who are not well off. We either force Christianity, or Marxism down their throats, but the God of War is pleased in both cases.

[Alpinex105]

@JasonDamisch I agree about the political illusion. Democracy however doesn't require militarism if there is an investment between states and open forms that are fair. There is no threat to Democracy. It's fickle. There is a threat of the state that enforces it.

[mba2ceo]

Manipulation by intimation is easier than control by force. GOVT objective is exploitation.

[charlbiv]

If you disagree with anything in this video, you're probably rich.

[Lobos222]

Military spending is not linked as the reason for the financial crises...

There are human rational reasons why even the UN has armed forces. A country of any real size needs to have armed forces. Its a fact of history. Just because you have peace now dosent mean it will last. There will always be people that are willing to use force to get what they want.

Maybe even the average Roman didnt like war, but I dont think they where complaining about higher living standards as a result of it...

[timzulf]

I agree with you that it is necessary to have a military, and even use it to spread democracy, because certain regimes can only be stopped through these means. However, our military and war, has been governed by corporate interests, so in order to spread democracy we need to sever these ties. And the war (the second gulf war) served the purpose of growing our loaning sector, as well as others, as the military industrial complex helps the economy and allows us to pursue a policy of deregulation.

[DontEatEggs666]

@timzulf How is it goverened by corporate interests?

[yellowkrux]

@DontEatEggs666 the military, well can you explain how Haliburtan got no bid contracts to Iraqi oil to sell it to the Chines, when the current vice president took 13million severance package he received when he resigned to run for VPOTUS? Then there's the question of why we stayed in Vietnam passed 1965 when the primary objective of the war was achieved if not for the companies that benefited from it.

[LiamYumHome]

Right on.

[upact]

Rest in peace, Sir.

A huge loss, at a time when we need this type of insight more than ever.

[purphanz]

democracy via militaristic action is quite the structuralist scenario

[Njtiger888]

dumb socialists.... whats the difference between socialism and monarchy?.... give up?..... none!...stop being stupid

[joegreaser]

Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard..... This is a country of monarchs. the wealthiest 1% of this country run us all, whether you are smart enough to know it or not. And it has been this way in large part by the lack of socialism. You don't even know what socialism is, apart from what you heard from Rush Limbag, Bill Oreilly, or some other windbag right wing pundit.

[saki01248]

@Njtiger888 If you want to see somebody stupid,look at the mirror.You have 36 year and you talk like you brain stoped at age 16.

[coco7010]

Hmmm... Monarchy is the OPPOSITE of socialism. The closest modern equivilent to monarchy is an oligarchy.

It is VERY important to remain clear on such things.

Good luck,

[jhb2700]

I wonder when the last time was that this person PRODUCED a good or service that someone else would pay for and then he said PLEASE tax 60 to 70 percent of my earnings away from me.

[mnoorist]

(He) has produced books which is a good and a service, and he payed taxes. And at least you know that you are being tax..You probably know that when you buy many things, there is a hidden tax - called profits - I wonder how hard the top 5 layers of management had to work to justify their salaries. YOU HAPPILY PAY TAXES IN THE SHAPE OF UNFAIR corporate PROFITS and never criticize them for making so much money when you are only a sickness away from bankruptcy.

[coco7010]

He has produced several books which have remained among the best-selling political and historical books of the last 30 +years.

His tenure at BU has attracted top students for decades bringing a competitive AND economic edge to his employer. His countless lectures throughout the US and the world has enlightened thousands and helped redefine historical research. Shall I go on?

Peace,

[belisarius2930]

Yes, we should surrender our freewill and freedom to Zinn's benevolent tyranny. There is nothing like "enlightened" bullshit. He states half truths and fits everything into his own narrative (nevermind pesky facts). "Faux" News doesn't hold a candle to this propaganda.  The only reason you don't mind this intellectual circle jerk of dishonesty is that you get off on it too. Zinn's bullshit dilendum est!

[sooperdario]

how long did it take you to think this one up?

[funkmanchu]

One can only hope and pray a man like this will one day take control of our insanely greed driven world.

A great voice of educated common sense.

The Satanic/Capitalist life structure must come to an end soon or we are finished physically, if we are not already spiritually.

[jkiene]

Do you think the computer was invented by a Capitalist or a communist? You must feel pretty guilty for using a Computer. It represents Capitalism doesnt it? Human nature is all about competition just like the rest of the plant and animal kingdom. Not Liberal ideology were everyone is equal. Sad View you have

[MinimalistProgram]

I suggest you read up on the history of computing. Early computer development was massively state sponsored. Military, universities. None of the pioneering work grew out of the free market. In the free market, risk-taking is often punished. Private entities usually join in when a technology is ripe for profits.

[jkiene]

Not sure your point. My point is if it wasnt for capitalism and fee markets belisarius2930 wouldnt be owning a computer let alone living a higher standard of living enjoyed by the majority of Americans...

[chevillian2]

True, but if it wasn't for government intervention in the free market, we would've been operating dangerous machinery at the age of four, haha.

[joeo78501]

To jkiene: no such thing as a free market never has been in America, Perhaps you mean a subsidized, tariff protected tax payer subsidized, cheap to slve labor, protected market for the rich, influential, elite and now corporate sponsored lobbied special interest market.

[jkiene]

Fact, the USA enjoys the highest standard of living in the world. We don't have 20 Plus % unemployment.  The USA has raised the standard of living for most with historically very low unemployment. The Rich employ the masses...

[sooperdario]

is that good?

in rising to such a high level of wealth, the US has condemned those in other nations to poverty at the lowest level

[jkiene]

What is good is the USA has raised the standard of living throughout the world. I would disagree with you if you're implying that the USA should give up our democracy, and dilute our wealth more than we already do. Would you rather we live in society were everyone has the same standard of living? (a subsistence sandard of living? It won't exist in Communism, Socialism or Capitalism. People are naturally competitive and that fact alone creates the different classes. Free Markets thank you

[sooperdario]

how can you possibly say that the USA has raised the standard of living around the world?

iraq, panama, the philippines, nicaragua

nobody is saying that you should ever "give up" democracy, because it isnt synonymous with capitalism

you could have a completely participatory democracy and still have anarchism or communism

and human nature?

bah

i would rather we live in a society where nobody starves

[jkiene]

sooperdario, I would also rather we live in a society where Nobody starves as well... and feel the best way to get there is a capitalist society which promotes advancement and local charity instead of a government controlled (using other peoples Money ), restrictive and loss of freedom system, A small example is: I can't roll down my freaking back car window all the way down because I'm being protected from myself.

[sooperdario]

No, a capitalist society does not promote universal advancement, which i'm sure you're implying, and local charity. The history of the quasi laissez-faire economic system is a hisotyr of exploitation and blind ambition. The history of the Soviet Union is not the history of communism, because it was an autocracy with an inefficiently used wealth, and therefore not communism, so stop using it as an excuse for why communism or socialism won't work. Next comment.

[coco7010]

Can you name one free market "capitalist society"? I actually can. (There is only one in the world...NO it is NOT the US)

Can you?

[jkiene]

Yes 19th Century America which has never been a true laissez faire system but it is the closest yet. Is this a trivia question or do you have a point to make? By the way Zinn's historical books are his reality not most of American Society.

[coco7010]

THe rich have ALWAYS employed the masses everywhere, what's your point?

The US innovation was a series of reasonable laws controlling both the government AND the ruling classes from scuttling the lives of the masses.

P.S. Who told you the US has the highest standard of living? My friends in Paris on Rue d'Bac wake up everyday to see the Louvre from their rooftop, eat the finest pastries in the world, drink the best wine and live in one of the greatest cities in the world. What's your measure?

[jkiene]

My measure is the realization that the US has redefined the meaning of Poor. My measure is that a higher standard of living brings down the cost of good through competition (more Money) allows more choices such as being able to fly to Paris and drink the best wine and eat the finest pastries....and own land and a decent size house and security of knowing you and your neighbor are going to thrive.

[coco7010]

Yes...and France has a very high standard of living... arguably MUCH better than the US when you consider cultural, artistic, social and culinary life standards, in other words, REAL life, not just consumer products, the GOOD STUFF.

This is something that Americans who do not travel do not understand.

[mhgreen3000]

@MinimalistProgram Hey, thanks for your comment. Is there any particular books you would suggest as a kind of primer?

[joeo78501]

Konrad Zuse invented/ developed the first computers 1938/ 1941 the Z3, a German civil engineer and computer pioneer in Fascist Germany, not a Capitalist of Psuedo Free Market Country.

[WHYNotNews]

Thank you Zinn for laying down the truth, your understanding of real history (what actually happened) rather than our collective fox/idol wishful thinking short memories.

[L0K3]

Shut it zinn you asshole.

[player1vladimir]

Finaly smart Americans...

But only 2 of 300 000 000...

[nosuchthingasshould]

how naive. every empire has a 'fighting ideology' be it freedom'n'democracy, communism, white man's burden, cristianity or pax romana. the defeat of the ideology within the framework of the empire is impossible, because it is just the cognitive justification for the natural, xenophobia-based support for the expansionism that commes from tr people who are hoast to the empire only the

[nosuchthingasshould]

xenophobia-based support for the expansionism that commes from people who are host to the empire. only the defeat and disintegration of the empire will make its ideology invalid. america esse delendam

[Gettinghitonattheban]

Call me crazy, but I want to see Zinn on Faux news. I think he might actually be able to learn those nut cases something.

[fredfelosofar]

thanks for your insightfullness, Mr. Haward Zinn

at the expense of killing a middle eastern, some americans are living the life of so called "american dream". and people still believe them about what they propegate on the media about? shame on those who believe this.

[koushykoushy]

howard seems like a very down to earth guy, and ofcourse well informed. i'd love to sit down with him and tell him to talkk abouttt anyyything he wants.. for as long as he wants and i'll be wide awake listening.

[Renegen1]

Donate people!

[TheGreaterGood80]

Democracy is a struggle, it has not been fully realized. Even the original Athenian democracy which so many politicians pay tribute to only allowed wealthy Greek men who owned land and slaves the right to vote.

The struggle to FULLY realize and utilize democracy, and not just use it as a catch phrase to win popularity points, is one that is worth fighting for.

[xxashyy]

Well this whole fighting for freedom and democracy nonsense started right after WW1. World War 2 put the US government on a destructive course as world policeman, and then Ronald Reagan began to glamourize war. Both parties are at fault for this, but I find it ironic that the democratic party started most of are major wars. Also the mainstream media had a hand in the wars also.

[JeffHilliard]

Thank you, Real News...

[thelastemperor909]

everything is corruption you get rid of the corrupt and the country is back to normal :D

[joelramirezramirez]

i like ike

[joelramirezramirez]

dont buy into to the mith that freedom has to be paid for.freedom is free or its not.i.e. who has made as an example how to be absolutly free.did that wxample show us to fight for it.on to death did that example show us we had to act to be free.

[lordblazer]

to tell you the truth. Its true. I am black. We had to have a bill signe din 1968 to give us the same rights as a white american. And even today we are treated as second class citizens. No one questions this and then they shiout we are free or we are no longer free. When to an African American and many other non-white americans. They never seen freedom or democracy in America.

[Goldclaw837]

So I should donate money to hear your liberal thoughts--Are you any better than any other corporate World Wide Business??---I don't think so! Such hypocrites!!!

[logosfabula]

I'm a proud donator, although I'm italian. This is an independent source. We need more.

[Goldclaw837]

America has protected the world for the last 100 years.We have given food and money to all the world--Does the rest of the world appreciate this?--Hell No---You don't fight terroism with flowers---You fight with M-16's--I could care less if the rest of the world is a Democracy--All this old man has done is read books about history--He lives in a bubble---Remember 9/11--Then Lock n Load--That's Realism!!!

[Webins]

Ooooh, real tough guy.

[Webins]

"Yes I am!!

enough to know whats real moron--Go away Puke face pussy!!!"

So tough, you were to scared to answer me here, but had to reply in a provate essage.

Yawn, another right-wing keyboard warrior.

[Goldclaw837]

Webins---You are just another liberal idiot that has the brain of a worm--It's so funny how mush minds like urs think-no common sense

[Webins]

I realise that an intelligent debate with you is a waste of time, but how do you know I'm a liberal, anyway?

Further, to answer your private message, I am aware that countless nations throughout history tried to dominate the world (though I don't kow what Hannibal was doing on your list, as he was not king or leader, but a general fighting basically a war of revenge against Rome), but that ignores the real social/cultural changes that have occure in the past 100 years on war and aggression.

[tarnopol]

Don't bother with that idiot, Webins.

[KentAllard]

heavily subsidized US grain drives Mexican farmers off the land, USAID would threaten to cut off food shipments if Hmong villages wanted to stop providing men to fight for the CIA.

The money props up kleptocracies and pays for their security forces.

That old man participated in the first combat use of napalm.

[coco7010]

Protected the rest of the world? Be careful kind sir... The Soviet army took on 70% to 90% of the Nazi army and was driving them back into Germany when we invaded Normandy in '44. The Soviets pulled the heaviest load.

[amielrox]

Not to mention they held out in Stalingrad despite being severely outnumbered.

[potatochipsunsalted]

not to mention they suffered huge losses and if it wasn't for Russia distracting most of the german forces during ww2 it would have been much harder for us to come out looking like the heroes.

[abilityoflove]

The American perception of "freedom and democracy" is not the same as the dictionary definition of these words - the American version is about the right to get rich, to exploit others and to fire guns.

[hasankhalid]

they would want to change it or the end result will be an end of USa as a superpower, and other nations will take over control of the world

[votethirdpartynow]

protectionism. turn the heat on, arrest the crooks!

[percymate]

Donate to the Real News Network! These guys are the Real deal. Journalism with guts!

[CitizenWorm]

Excellent series. After the election... Not to count the chickens or anything but I'm ready to talk about what happens on Nov. 5th now.

Real News you are #2 on the list of organizations to get a monetary donation from me after the soup kitchen I eat at. Thank you and keep it coming.

[Symian27]

Thank you Real News, you are doing a wonderful service. Great interview.

[TVParkdale]

Funny, Rome, Britain, Spain, France and Portugal used the *same* excuses to invade.

How can anyone in America, after thousands of years of human history buy into this bullsh*T?

[AutomneFalls]

US citizens are functionally illiterate when it comes to history.

[TVParkdale]

hmmmmm

Illihistoric?

[albedoshader]

@TVParkdale: I'd say it's a severe case of terminal ahistoria generalis. ;)

[NoctisEreptor]

@AutomneFalls But of course, it is due to the fact they really don't have any, to the USA history was last week. TO UK history is something we lose down the back of a sofa.

[KentAllard]

every nation uses this rhetoric even in ancient time, Belgium in the Congo is the only exception I can think of

[LILUCKSMO80]

Democracy is a made up word so the usa can mess with other countries.and put fake Presidents has Presidents plus people are so brain wash that they(people)belive everything they hear and see!!they(usa)has never won a war by them self they always need help!USA is not a Democracy country it's a Republican country it on the usa Constitution but people never read it so they not know!!!

[agitcam]

LIL...80,Democracy is a concept and exists as an idea.The word may be made up but the idea is mighty. The idea of democracy has sparked the imaginations of men and women for about 2500 years now. While the word democracy may be in disrepute because it has been used to disguise war and tyranny, the idea of democracy is not diminished by this. It is the mark of its power to sway men that gives the word its utility in propaganda.Men who in the past cast off tyranny though know its action.

[mzjwright]

WAR IS TERRORISM! PERIOD! Ppl are 99.9% similar! The wars wont stop until we the PEOPLE stop them! In the 21st Century it is pathetic and inhumane to be at war! No one in this day and age has any RIGHT ANY RIGHT to invade a Country or to declare War against any Country! DOWN WITH WAR, DOWN WITH the CONSPIRACY AGAINST US and to hell with you evil lot