Intellectual Honesty

[trinijoe69]

All reality is subject to the perception and belief of the observer. If you think about it, everyone is right. A person does not adopt a belief thinking that it is wrong. From your perspective it may seem wrong, but that also is subject to your own beliefs. Based on your beliefs, you filter the soup of information that makes up reality for bits of information to validate your own personal collection of beliefs.

[HowieInTheUK]

It is so amusing to see what desperately lame arguments theists will use. You seem to achieve new heights in inanity with your basic argument that reality isn't really real so therefore god is real. Duh.....

Intellectual honesty is not twisting and perverting all logic and reason to attempt to prove something you WISH were true. You and and your arguments are a perfect example of how twisted and silly such intellectually dishonest efforts are.

[mucalinda]

Thorzon Science isn't just about 'seeing' or 'hearing' or 'feeling'. It's also about logic and testing and re-testing and cross referencing and asking others to review your hypotheses. So presumably 'optical illusions' would eventually be found to be just that. Also, unlike religion, Science is willing to say "We don't know, let's keep looking for an answer". If people have apparant 'miraculous' cures , then every possible reason should be looked at .......contd

[mucalinda]

Thorzon ...including the mind's own ability to heal the body. Doctors have understood the power of placebos for years. As to what one bases Reality on, if we don't base Reality on what we see, hear, feel, test and use our logic on, then what do we base it on? The Supernatural then becomes just one guess in an infinity of possible guesses. Snakewater, ju-ju charms, gut feelings, Astrology, sacrifice of virgins to Natures Gods, voices in the head, etc etc all then have equal validity.

[mucalinda]

Thorzon Even the Matrix becomes a possibility. This is the problem philosophers have struggled with for years. Descartes said "I think, therefore I am". Buddhists and many mystics say there is no I to do the thinking. So, Reality could be anything. But if we do use logic and experiment as one strand in our attempt (if there is an 'our') to make sense of our Universe, then Science does a pretty good job in that direction.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

The request is really to present the evidence for your belief (since YOU are advancing the theory). And don't respond by demanding that people prove you false (because you cannot prove a negative). The human imagination knows no limit to the number or the theories and claims that can be proposed regarding the origin of life. Are we to grant plausibility to any theory unless we can proof it false? The burden of proof is ALWAYS the responsibility of those who advance the theory.

[todaysprogramming]

As long as we continue talking and debating and sharing perspectives (even if it consists of childish flaming) on the things that matter the most to us, then humanity will improve. Atheists are going to become more spiritual, and theists are going to become less religious; we will recognize that we were all on the same side all along, and humanity and compassion will be more evident in our lives. if everyone keeps talking, debating, flaming, maybe we'll join in the middle before it's too late.

[Thorzon]

I would certainly agree that continuing to dialog is extremely important...althought I'm not so sure about the childish flaming. :)

[todaysprogramming]

well...i tend to believe all exchanges change both parties, with each side adopting traits of the other, simply by interacting, regardless of whether either of them notice or admit it consciously...as much as we may dislike flaming, i think it indicates an early stage of a constructive dialogue. if a person flames you, they took a peek at what you have to say, and even if they consciously dislike/disagree/flame, ultimately, your thought now swims in their mind amongst their own.

all the best!

[djFrend]

I think intellectually honest means using the same logical process you would go through to demonstrate one posit to apply to a comparble one.

Chanting latin over cereal = eating elvis at breakfast time is, being logically honest, comparable to the body of christ thing.

On the question of reality. We can only go by what the information available to us. Not the imagination available to us. Supernatural phenoemena: Before science, the sun rising in the morning was considered 1

[holyjesus]

Your question "who decides?" begs the question, "Why is it a who?" and unfortunately for theism, there is no reason to propose there is a "who" that decides what reality is.

We can agree that logic helps us perceive our shared reality. Both a hindu and an islamist are both effected by gravity regardless whether it's in their holy book or not.

So, we know that reality is not dependent on a book of dogma, though christianity *is*.

You can't base reality on a controversial, non-historical book!

[Nykytyne]

I followed you up to the part about miracles. I do not know of any medical "miracle" that can not be explained by something natural (God doesn't heal amputees).

Anyway, I thought this was a relatively intelligent video, but as a non-theist, I don't think that there are occurrences that can not be explained naturally, and I have never encountered something such as that, so I must disagree with you there.

[fastfolky]

Intellectual honesty doesn't mean "look at the evidence that we see and come to the same conclusion as us."

It means what he say's it means and that is "A willingness to have our certenties about the world constraind by good evidence and good agrument"

Christianity can not be protected by 'good argument' and not in any way by anything that can be seen as scientific evidence.

You can change the view of a scientist in 1 hour if you bring forward evidence and good argument, that's honesty.

[vktrsx]

In a nutshell: "intellectual honesty" means NOT believing in Santa Claus without evidence.

You can replace "Santa Claus" with any other character and the formula works the same.

P.S. When you said "supernatural honesty" I laughed so hard that I spat corn chips and clam dip on my monitor. Thanks a lot. :-(

[Thorzon]

If you refuse to see that there's a supernatural side to this universe, that's what I'm talking about.

[vktrsx]

Are you claiming that there is an aspect of this natural universe than is not natural?

That's a bold statement. I don't suppose you have any evidence to back that up, do you? I'd love to see it.

(Note: the Bible is not evidence.)

[todaysprogramming]

clam dip?

[saintkamus14]

People making recoveries that seem unexplainable.

Tell me, how a bad answer is better than saying "i don't know"

there could be lots of reasons, but yet religious people have no problem saying the reason for that recovery was an angel, muhamed, allah, jesus, whatever.

bad answers are worse than ignorance.

Why? cause some people belive them as real answers, and might make important descisions on those bad answers... Then when we do find the reason we'll needless debates on it, like evolution

[saintkamus14]

We know with certanty that we were not created, and there is no evidence for a matrix like world...

if there was, then we'd belive that, no choice, if we were to be intelectually honest.

and guess what? that's a FAR more likley scenario than the god hypotesis, since a simulator construct is far more likley than making up that is "supernatural" (i mean, the matrix still ran on real computers.)

incredible claims with out evidence = made up shit.

[brdobro]

Using the information we have, how can you conclude that their is a super intelligence that created us? Using the information we have, all things evolve due to natural selection. Yes, it's real. This means that the super intelligence would have either had to evolve or been created out of nothing. Neither make much sense, given the information that we have. And that is just the base of debunking religion. Never mind angels, the devil, fire burning inferno, sons being sent down, etc etc

[samdathi]

Oh my word. This guy takes about half an hour to make a point. Boring. You ain't no sam Harris, my friend

[Thorzon]

Thanks for the compliment (on not being a Sam Harris).  I'll take boring over intellectual dishonesty any day. :)

[bnreal800]

some people gon be real pissed when they die, thats the most common sense answer to life

[bnreal800]

some people gon be real pissed when they die, thats the most common sense answer to life

[baneoffafnir]

sorry it took forever to get your response up. i never check my messages and pending responses and what not. thanks for chiming in.

[shelaluddin08]

In matrix u have choices u can make but in the real world, if you believe in a all powerful God, there is no choice hence no free will. the moral of Matrix. An infinite God who created a world where nothing happens without his permission is a world where free will does not exist. and if u believe u have free will then God is not infinite. now be intellectually honest and take an objective stand not a relative one. either god is infinite or u have free will.its about choice just like in Matrix:-)

[shelaluddin08]

I brought the point of Magic because really God can do anything right? then u believe in magic because God has infinite powers...but you and I know that magic doesn't exist. magic means: defying logic, defying the law of physics and anything and everything that is rational. if ur not rational ur not honest. if your not honest you are intellectually deceiving yourself and people around you. Matrix was a good movie.lol

recommened reading: The blind watchmaker, Atlas shrugged and the infidal

[shelaluddin08]

remember its ur burden to give a proof of your God. u live in a world of relativism. Be objective about existance. Good people stand firm with little hesitation of whats real and whats not. according to you, magic is real to those people who fall for tricks done by magicians. Now be honest and take a stand...its not magic its just an illusion. That is the whole point, people fall for illusions. All you have to know is: Existence exists. The world is real. Take an honest stand and live.