First research how the ancient Biblical Jews and the early Christians viewed birthdays. They both condemned the practice as a pagan religious ritual. Then read 2 Cor. 6:14-18. One can not sit at the table of demons and the table of Jehovah at the same time.
The bible directly states that God urges people to avoid partying and instead reflecting of life,to use it for good because it can end anytime.Eccleciastes 7:1-4. Birthdays bring honor to the birthday person,and this is like a form of worship. It is important to be kind to people everyday,not just on their b-day.Birthday origins are of pagan beginnings. Research it and you will see :D
Eccleciastes 7:2-4, "Better is it to go to the HOUSE OF MOURNING than to the banquet house, because that is the end of all mankind; and the one alive should take (it) to his heart". verse 4, "The heart of the WISE ONES is in the HOUSE OF MOURNING, but the heart of the STUPID ONES IS IN THE HOUSE OF REJOICING." We do not TWIST scriptures as video claims. We simply chose to be WISE ONES, not stupid ones. We don't celebrate life every year. We Celebrate Jesus' DEATH, he told us to Luke 22:19..
CHRISTMAS IS NOT REALLY JESUS' BIRTHDAY.Read Matthew, Mark, Luke in bible about 2/3 of way through bible.They never give a date of his birth.Jesus never celebrated his birthday.HE DID TELL US TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH at Luke 22:19.We keep his Memorial-Jehovah's Witnesses follow exactly what Jesus tells us. The bible says celebrate DEATH-Eccleciastes 7:1-8, verse 4,"The heart of the wise ones is in the house of mourning, but the heart of the stupid ones is in the house of rejoicing."BIBLE IS TRUTH.
HI, we vote for God, in our hearts. God sees who's following his word, the bible. We pray for God's Kingdom and God to rule us forever-Matthew 6:9,10. Matthew 25:34,"Then the king(Jesus) will say to those on his right, "Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom..." Matthew 5:5,"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." 1 John 2:17,"...but he that does the will of God REMAINS forever".2 Peter 3:13,".. a new earth...righteousness is to dwell".
@eternityandforever Does your church or the elders of your church prohibit its members to vote or can a Jehovah Witnesses choose if he or she wants to vote? For example, if a Jehovah Witness decided that he or she wanted to vote, would the elders of your church, and its other members stop talking to him/her or look down at that person? Thanks...
@mariamariable1 We do not vote for human rulers. The bible says they are no good. They cannot help us to live forever-Psalms 146:3,"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles(rulers),Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.verse 5,"Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help,Whose hope is in Jehovah his God." We pray for God's Kingdom to come to the earth and bring true peace and happiness forevermore! Matthew 6:9,10,33 Jesus taught us to pray for kingdom and put it first.
When you really examine the scriptures CLOSELY, you learn that Jesus taught us to celebrate his DEATH, not his birth. READ Luke 22:19,20, "Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: "This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in rememberance of me. Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf." Eccleciastes 7:1-8
@MrSusielove We do not vote for human rulers. The bible says they are no good. They cannot help us to live forever-Psalms 146:3,"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles(rulers),Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.verse 5,"Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help,Whose hope is in Jehovah his God." We pray for God's Kingdom to come to the earth and bring true peace and happiness forevermore! Matthew 6:9,10,33 Jesus taught us to pray for kingdom and put it first.
To each its own. However, for me, i choose not to celebrate the day I inherited sin from Adam. The day that cursed my life to be vain. It is only hope in our lord Jesus Christ death that redoes what Adam did.
"A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born." - Eccl 7:1
If Jesus wanted us to celebrate Birthdays, he would command it like he commanded us to celebrate his Memorial at Luke 22:19. The same people who
said Jesus was born on Dec. 25 (which he was not) said to celebrate his birthday...Jesus's cousin, John the baptist, was killed on King Herod's birthday (refer to Matthew 14:6, Mark 6:21). In Genesis 40:20 Pharoah killed his baker, on his birthday. These rulers on their birthdays killed people. Mark 7:13, men are obeyed, instead of God's word.
So, what was evil, the birthday itself or the actions done on that day? Evil is done every day, not just on people's birthday. So, I guess by that train of thought, we should celebrate nothing. Wedding anniversaries? Can't do that...evil has been done on that day by SOMEONE...
The point is...how far do you want to take it out?
If you read as much bible as you claim, shouldnt it be obvious for you that the origins for birthdays came from the pagan habbits and celebrates of the ancient babylons and stuff. So my guess is that you havent read even 1 page of bible if you ask a question as stupid as this! Use that Computer of yours and gather some info about wizards and their stuff which is now part of you birthday celebrates!
@tdickensheets WE need to be reasonable.God is specific in the bible.The more you read,the more you get a rounded out knowledge of what he is trying to teach us.He gives ONLY good laws that help us and keep us from harm.It's the best advice you'll ever be able to find...Start reading the bible everyday. You might have to find time, like give up a not-so important TV show, but you will gain so much more than you could ever know,so it's worth the time,pray for truth,be sincere and love God's ways!
quick question for you: can you provide one passage of scripture that strictly forbids smoking crack?...nope...guess that makes it ok!!...you ppl in christendom look for every loop hole you can find
its not a loop hole. JW tries to stays clean from pagan traditions. I just showed you the only two birthdays in the bible and the fact that Jesus didn't celebrate nor any other disciples in the bible. and i even told you how these celebration came about. its historical fact. Now if you don't like it then just don't follow, don't say stupid things with nothing to contribute. Can you give me a reason why i should celebrate?
@silkyhands914 i think u have me confused...i, as one of Jehovahs Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays...i think ppl in christendom look for loop holes...the question was directed towards the gentleman in the video
If u look at the history books u will see that the first Christians in general didn't celebrate their birthday. If u look up the origins of the birthday u will find out that birthdays were associated with magic & pagan religion. the ancient belief was that the day of ure birthday was the day ure most vulnerable to demons so what they would do was gather & bring gifts to that person. Don't believe me Google it or Youtube it and while your at it look up xmas, Holloween and other crap u celebrate.
@silkyhands914- First century Christians didn't drive cars either. Does that mean I can't drive? Seriously, isn't it possible to celebrate your birthday and glorify God in the process? Nowhere in Scripture is the strict commandment to abstain from celebrating birthdays.
@EvidenceMinistries driving cars isnt a pagan tradition! your right, the bible dosent strictly forbid it! but it does say to worship only jehovah. so having birthdays that are of pagan tradtion and not biblical is wrong!
@EvidenceMinistries ok im gunna chip-in here, first of all saying about that stupid car thing is well just a stupid thing to say because the technology wasn't around back then...duh. Secondly to actually answer your question there are only two mentions of birthdays in the entire Bible, both occasions somebody died; now why would anybody have bothered to even include these events if they are bad? - Too show that they ARE bad, not good. And no i'm not saying that people die at your birthday.
@EvidenceMinistries The bible clearly points to the fact that ungodly people celebrated birthdays.It also tells us not to focus on the day we were born, when no-one knows what sort of person you were yet,but on the death of a person-Ecclesiates 7:1-4.It is good to reflect on life, and be sober.Usually birthdays are partying, drunkeness, which the bible condemns-1 Corinthians 6:9-11.If you are serious, you should read those scriptures.See that God does teach us what he wants us to know!B-Days=bad
@silkyhands914 "so what they would do was gather & bring gifts to that person." like the men did for jesus when he was born in the stable? if you want to talk about pagan religion and relations of ceremonies to it, then look at our western style weddings. investigate it.
@wanitek well first of all, its not like jesus wanted them to come. if you know the story, it was king herod who told those men to find jesus and to appear to be peaceful. but then we find out that he wanted to kill jesus and order the massacre of many just born children, so i dont think that argument is great. futhermore jesus never celebrated his brithday nor did the early christians, jesus never wanted any glory he wanted the glory to go to his father. he did state to remember his sacrifice.
@wanitek as for the wedding stuff i dont know a lot of as i am young and still not thinking of marriage :). but im pretty sure there is some traditions that weddings have like the throwing of the rice which JWs DONT do. But you caught my curiosity ill look it up.
lets look at the second birthday thats of the birthday of Herod. In that day they cut off the head of John the baptist so i can see why birthdays would be viewed as something negative form the bible's perspective. Everything thats in the bible is put for a reason and if these two incidents of birthdays are said in the bible there must be a reason. there also must be a reason why Jesus didn't say celebrate my birthday did he. can you show me any verse that says to celebrate the birthday.
@silkyhands914 the beheading was an isolated incident as far as i see. because i always ask this. are beheadings part of the birthday ritual or was it a one off incident? since there are no records of murders/gross sin occurring in, lets say weddings or any other accepted feast or celebration, does that mean that it makes them ok to celebrate? think about it. how different is a birthday from an anniversary?
Jw try to stay clean in all aspects. I know you guys love your celebrations so much you just cant let it go right. first lets look at the encounters of birthdays in the bible, there were only two. and they were both bad there wasn't even celebration of Jesus DOB and he was the son of god. Anyway, In gen 40:20-22 the pharaohs birthday was being celebrated by making a feast for all his servants and then he hanged somebody for all to watch.
@silkyhands914 but even as JW's certain traditions concerning wedding feasts are prohibited. which i am referencing for birthdays. the fact that some cultures celebrate a wedding with rituals that are based on false religion and unscriptural why are JW's still having weddings? isnt it the content and not the actual celebration that comes into question? personally i do not care about birthdays or celebrations. i am looking for the soundness in this prinicple. because i dont see it.
it's not that we couldn't celebrate birthdays it's how birthdays are celebrated by you people, wearing a wizard hat and plowing a candle and wish is pagan.
@1Minute60Seconds- Then why don't you give us an example of how birthdays should be celebrated? I'd love to be invited to your party and sit next to your presiding overseer. ;-)
Listen, I used to be a Jehovah's Witness, and the pasage that they taught me was when Salome asked for the head of John the Baptist on her birthday. We were taught something along the lines of it being bad to celebrate birthdays because of that event. Also, in another passage (I really don't remember, I never used to pay attention to that stuff, I'm sorry) it said that a large number of people died on someone elses birthday. Still makes no sense to me...
It isn't the birthday that is the issue with JW's, it's the rituals or practices that come along with them(traditionally that is).
However... I myself don't care for birthday's(personally) as they seem to derive a sort of self importance under God. And if anything... I've always found it a but odd that people would celebrate their own coming into being. I mean... if anything, shouldn't we be praising those who made us([parents... God etc).
This of course isn't scriptural, I'm just saying...
You have probably heard this..the ancietn jews never celebrate the day of their own birth..it was unthinkable for them to view their birth as something great. BUT..the bible DOES mention two birthdays..both by pagans..and at both, someone was killed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is enlightening. Also, the rites that most birthdays are celebrated with are in imitation of demonic religous holidays...candles, gifts, wishes, etc.
I'll give you a scripture where it says not to celebrate birthdays if you can provide me with one where it says to celebrate birthdays. In fact the only two times when a birthday celebration were mention in the bible (Gen 40:20-22, Matt 14:6-10) someone was executed. If you believe that everything in the bible was put there by God and for a reason, wouldn't it make sense that God had something very specific to say about birthdays with these 2 instances? Read Ecclesiastes 7:1,2.
No I can not. But I also can not find a verse that tells me I should not surf pornography on the internet or that I should not play vilent video games. What I can show you is the principles therein that show us such things are not acceptable to God and that all things are in the bible for a reason including two very unsavoury, violent birthdays...the only ones recorded in the bible. Spiritually mature Christians can move on from the "milk" and onto "solid food" and don't need "spoon feeding".
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
The reason those two birthdays are mentioned in the Bible is because they are linked to prophesies, Jehovah is the interpreter of dreams and Jesus was to replace John. JW's are going BEYOND what is written.
@TheRealTruth1914 Angels did sing and shepherds saw him in a manger LK chap2, but astrologers with gifts, happend a little while later, because when they found Jesus he was in a house MAT 2:11 which logically did not happen that night.
The trip from Jerusalem to Bethlehem is under 10 Km, when herod got no news fast from astrologers he had males from 2 and under killed. Thats how much time went by between his birth and astrologers visit. Bible does not say they visited on his birthday.
@Scripturesinspired You don't need to celebrate a birthday on the actual date. Herod had male children under 2 killed to make sure the promised king would not get away. Use some logic.
if your gonna answer his question do it right. ha .. Its just that all the birthdays talked about in the bible a servent of god was killed or someone was killed. If thats not enough to say they are bad then idk whats it lol
There is no scripture that says birthdays are wrong.
In my 20 years as a witness I did think that the explanations of the 2 killings during birthdays mentioned in the bible was a bit far-fetched as God never said anything forbidding his worshippers from celebrating birthdays.
there are barely any notifications of birthdays in the bible... but the one of the daughter of herocles (if that's the right name) got the promis of her father that he would do Anything for her birthday. She told her mom and she didn't like Johan the baptiser the babtist. So the wish was to kill Johan...
You have the facts very muddled up. The birthday was Herod's, and John's beheading had nothing to do with the birthday itself, Herod commanded it as a way to flatter Herodias.
Birthdays don't have to be a form of worship, to me they are just a mark of remembrance and celebration, just like a wedding anniversary. The problem is their are those who take this celebration to an extreme where it can very easily become worship.
@poconoporker And what benefit do you think the WTS has by not condoning the celebration of birthdays? Does it not seem more likely they are concerned about our relationship with Jehovah? All the rites of birthday celebrations have roots in the worship of false gods. Paul said it best..what sharing does the table of God have with the table of demons? Quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in! So..what is more important? You or Jehovah?
Almost everything is from pagan origin: names of days and months, using flowers at funerals, using wedding rings, etc. Do JW's use these? In fact, their was an Awake article that brought this subject to light. The final comment was it doesn't matter were it originated from but what does it mean today. I found this to be a form of hypocrisy, don't you think?
In regards to birthdays...Its best to read this article..Awake! article of January 8, 2000. In that article, entitled A Balanced View of Popular Customs, ..this can EASILY be said the same towards birthdays...Also..do JW give engagement rings? Pagan roots The World Book Encyclopedia, vol. 13, 2000, p. 221..Wedding cakes? pagan roots. The Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 28, 1999, p. 565.
Do birthdays resemble anything in the bible? read the AWAKE folks..
Qouted from the Jehovah's witness insight book'' the bible makes direct reference to only 2 birthday celebrations , those of Pharoh of Egypt and Herod Antipas... it is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day which they were born into the world below.' ''
hahah..SINNERS?? GREAT REJOICING OVER THE DAY WHICH THEY WERE BORN? look at when Jesus was born..your first ACTUAL birthday is the day you are BORN...what happens? Jesus got many gifts..and was bowed down to...This is a CELEBRATION OF BIRTH of JESUS (a BIRTHDAY)...
@rhdtv2002 Look closely at the situation. the men who came and gave gifts were not worshippers of God..they followed a star. They were astrologers..and Jehovah had the isrealites put to death who practiced astrology. The astrologers alerted herod to Jesus birth..which resulted in the deaths of all the 2 yr old boys. So..the 'plot' was from satan..he used this 'celebration' as a way to have jesus killed.
@brofun seriously no where in the bible does it even forbid to celebrate birthdays..wedding rings, vails over the face all have pagan roots..but honestly you think that what happen then is happening today..i cant remember the last birthday party that people where worshipping anyone or that someones head was being cutoff..Jews have ALWAYS celebrated birthday, the bible is not the evidence..look at history
There are three birthdays reported in the Bible, two were pagans and one was Jesus! On his birthday gifts were given and angels in heaven rejoiced. Have you ever thought that maybe the two negative birthdays mentioned were to teach us about HOW we should celebrate a birthday and not condemn it completely? We can say birthdays are good because we are appreciating life, God's gift. We should not celebrate them as the pagan's have by taking a life, getting drunk, and thinking of one self so much.
well, in the bible, jizabel, wanted baptise johns head for her bday, and thats wat she got, so thats why we dont celebrate, but im pretty sure that there is a scripture
I'm a jehovah's witness. I cannot name a scripture off the top of my head that says we cannot celebrate birthdays. Along time ago we did. We have found it's wrong. I haven't lived in that part cause i'm only 14. But there is a scripture where a girl had a birthday and she wanted a fellow mans head. (literally) So a birthday is like you saying you want your fellow mans head.
Can YOU show a scripture where Jesus or the apostles actually pooped??? Are we to assume then that Jesus and everyone else in the bible never pooped because the bible doesn't mention it.
@buyplants Lol. Of course not. No one can show a scripture where Jesus or the apostles pooped.The bible doesn't talk about it since it's not important to God! Pooping doesn't make you a good or bad person. Anyone can use his/ her logic & discern that Jesus & his apostles did poop. However, celebrating birthdays did matter to Jehovah God a great deal because the bible does talk about them & also because like Kaney mentioned before birthdays originated with a Pagan religion as an act of worshisp!
If you're ready to take time to thank God for being one year older/wiser, then I see no problem with celebrating your birthday. Besides, God wants us to be happy, and isn't celebrating once in a while a good way to be happy?
Part of being a JW is analysing god's word rather than just reading it. IN JW bible (Mat.14:6-10) it says how a king's daughter had impressed his dad (god believer) and his friends during his birthday, so he PROMISED to give her what ever she asked for. So she asked for Juan's head (Juan was loyal to Jehovah). Since he had promised he didn't back up on his word.Therefore god now forbids celebrations because Aren't we supposed to thank GOD that we lived another year and adore him rather than us
There is no truth in the trinity. The trinity is a given, an existance if you will. It is the obvious. Like a union. Example- The united states make up America. They are several that make up one in a unity. THe father, son, and holy spirit are one. Like a family. We see this pattern in life. Father mother and child = Family. a unioin. If one is missing the union does not exist. Protons, electrons, and nutrons = Atom. a union. And of course there is DNA. A map or a plan. Someone is thinking.
that is an impressive analogy but unfortunately you lack scripture to back your claim.i agree the father,son and holy spirit are one.families or atoms don't function the same,yet the father,son and holy spirit do!.
@BlaineKatsura I know you believe that scripture is inspired..but it does not exist in the older manuscripts of the bible. It has been proven to be spurious. I was a footnote that a copyist or scribe put into an mss that was several hundred years old..it eventually was inserted into a mss that was 700 years old. It does not appear in any older mss. this should make you worry.
@brofun False. Jesus said:" I and my Father are one." John 10:30
Note how Jesus always cast out demons, cured the sick, and did miracles in His own name. Also, on several occasions Jesus deliberately said; "I AM". This would never have been taken lightly by any Jew of Jesus' time.
@LeftyBlue Jesus also prayed to his father that his disciples be one. It did not mean they were the same person or equal..he meant they were in union..unity..they were not divided. Jesus, when he said what is translated from the greek as 'I am' was saying he had been alive since before abraham's time. There is no correlation to the scripture in exodus where Jehovah told Moses that he 'would prove to be who he would prove to be' (a more accurate rendering of the hebrew)
@brofun In John 8:58, Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." I am is the same name God uses for Himself in Exodus 3:14. In John 10:30, He said, "I and my Father are one." In verse 33, the Jews said, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." In John 17:5, Jesus prays to the Father that He would be glorified with Him and the glory they shared before the world was.
@BlaineKatsura John 8:58, in context, shows Jesus is speaking about his existence and the time of it. He said "since before abraham, I have been'. When Jesus said he and the father were one, he meant they were in unity..not that they were the same person, or equal..for a couple chapters later, Jesus prayed that his followers be one just as he and his father were one..in unity. As for quoting the jews, they were looking for a reason to stone Jesus..THEY interpreted what he said falsely.
@brofun Zechariah 13:7 is a Messianic prophecy. God said, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." The Hebrew word for "my fellow" is "amiti". This also translates to "my equal". God is speaking of a man who is His equal: the God-man.
@BlaineKatsura Blaine, I'll research that and see what exactly is being spoken of here and who is speaking. but, to say Jesus is equal to God is to contradict his own words. He said very clearly, "the father is greater thatn I'. If he were God, then that would be a statement that made no sense at all..also, 1cor 11:3 would also be incorrect. Jesus is not God..nor was a he a 'god man' while on earth. He was a perfect human being while on earth.
@brofun Actually, it makes perfect sense. Just an example: Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he" (Matt. 11:11). Was John better than all other human beings? No. He did have a higher position and rank though. The same thing is in the Godhead. The Father is greater than Jesus in position, but they are both the same in essence and nature
@BlaineKatsura And yet, Jesus is created by the father..that is why he is called the first born of all creation. He is also called the only begotten son of God. These titles clearly show that he is created. If by saying Jesus is the same in nature and essence, that he is a spirit, I can agree with you to an extent. But, the difference is that Jehovah is eternal..he had no begining..but, Jesus is called the 'begining of creation by God. Also, we would have to discuss the word godhead also.
@BlaineKatsura Jesus of course prayed for the glory he had alongside his father in the heavens..he missed it. Can you imagine if you had to spend thirty three years of your life as an ant? Jesus was sent down from heaven, where he was a much higher creation..the firstborn of all creation..and spent 33 years as a lowly human. He had much glory in heaven..but, he was given even more glory when he went back to heaven since he fulfilled his mission successfully.
@brofun But He was talking about the glory He and the Father share. God doesn't share His glory with anyone else (Isaiah 42:8). Also, in Zechariah 12:10, God said, "...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced..." Who was it that was pierced? Even in the NWT, Rev. 1:17, Jesus said, "...I am the First and the Last." God said, In Isaiah 44:6, "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
@BlaineKatsura No, he said the glory he had alongside his father...he did not intimate that he had equal glory that God has..but that he was glorified by being next to his father in heaven. You and I can both agree that if we were in heaven, we would certainly have the glory of being in God's presence. But, that would in no way mean we were equal to God. As for the first and the last, it is a title that indicates something. Both indicate different things about God and Christ.
@brofun If Jesus is not God, then why would He refer to Himself as the First and the Last? Isaiah 43:13 says, "Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work and who shall let it?" Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." You're right. We are in no way equal to God. He is Sovereign!
@BlaineKatsura Also...none of the scriptures you posted say that Jesus is God. He is given all authority in heaven and on earth by God..so, he has much power..but that power comes from his father. He was not created with it.
@brofun Jesus couldn't have been created with it because He wasn't created. Jesus is called "the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor. 1:24). Can God exist without power and wisdom? Micah 5:2 says that His "goings forth have been from old, from everlasting". This verse says Jesus is eternal. In Genesis 18, God appeared to Abraham as a man. He ate the food that was prepared and set before Him. Is it contrary to God's Word that God can become a man?
@BlaineKatsura YOu need to read your scriptures in context..that is not saying that christ it he literal power of god and the wisdom of god..it is saying that christ was the sign that that the jews and the greeks were calling for..he was the sign that God was expressing his wisdom and power thru christ.
Micah is speaking about Christ..but the hebrew word that is rendered everlasting also means early time or time indefinite. this would be in harmony with revelation which calls him ...
@BlaineKatsura the begining of creation by God. This would also harmonize with proverbs 8 where christ calls himself God's earliest production..acheivement. There is nothing in genesis that says God appeared as a man to abraham..when angels appeared or spoke to men, the bible often says that it was Jehovah that was before him or Jehovah speaking..but it was literally a messenger from Jehovah. The bible says that no man has ever seen God..and that no man can see God and live.
@brofun "Time indefinite" is just another way of saying "from everlasting", meaning that Jesus is eternal. Regarding Genesis 18: if it was not Jehovah, why did Abraham bow low to the ground and say, "My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant." In NWT, Abraham called this person, Jehovah. Prov. 8:22 says, "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Jesus existed before Creation.
@BlaineKatsura no, it's not the same..time indefinite is a way of saying that the time is not measurable for one reason or another...eternity is a different story..jesus was created a long long time ago..but, he had a begining...Jehovah did not have a begining..since he is eternal.
Abraham knew the angel was from Jehovah..he was showing the respect a rightous man would to one of Jeohvah's representatives. As for abraham calling the angel Jehovah, he was recognizing that the angels..cont.
@BlaineKatsura were messengers from Jehovah..and that whatever he said, he was directing it to Jehovah.
Jehovah did not create wisdom..this is a metaphor...it is Jesus who is speaking..it is Jesus who was created..there was not a time when Jehovah did not have wisdom..that is how we know that this is not speaking of literal wisdom..but is Jesus speaking.
@brofun Prov. 8:22 (NWT) says, "Jehovah himself produced meas the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements long ago." According to the NWT, God created wisdom. Does that mean He didn't have it? Regarding 1 Cor. 1:24: Jews were looking for power and the Gentiles were looking for wisdom. To the believing Jews and Gentiles, Jesus is the wisdom and power of God.
@BlaineKatsura That is my point..it is not wisdom speaking from vs 22 to vs 31. If this were not Jesus speaking..then your reasoning would be right on...it would indicate that there was a time when Jehovah did not have wisdom. Right..Jesus was the sign..the explanation of God and what God was doing in their behalf..
@brofun Then don't Jesus' works prove His deity? He showed His omniscience by speaking of His crucifixion quite a few times, Peter's denial. He stated His omnipresence, by saying that He and the Father would make their abode in believers and that where two or more are gathered in His name, He's there with them. He proved His omnipotence by not only His miracles, but His power over nature (walking on water, miraculous catches of fish), also by His very resurrection.
@BlaineKatsura no, Jesus said himself that he could do nothing without the father..the father was giving him th ability to do the works. As for his knowledge of his coming execution..he knew why he was coming to the earth..and he knew he would be hung on a stake..so, again, it's not a matter of being all knowing. It is thru the means of Jehovah's spirit that he is 'with' his followers..he is not literlly there..Christ and Jehovah reside in heaven. But, his eyes are on his followers..
@BlaineKatsura by Jesus saying he would be with them, he was saying he was behind them all the way..he would help them..guide them..but it does not mean he is literally with them. As for his power over nature..again, it was Jehovah's power that he gave to Jesus. Jehovah did the same with some of his prophets..just not to the same extent. Moses threw down his staff and it became a snake..moses raised his arms and the red sea parted, etc. Jesus said many times that his power came from God.
@brofun John 1:3 in NWT says, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." This verse contradicts the JW belief that Jesus was created because "apart from him not even one thing came into existence." Jesus had to have already existed before anything and anyone could be created.
@BlaineKatsura Yes, all things came 'THRU' him..this indicates that Jesus was the means..not the source. Jehovah is the creator..he created all things..but, he created Jesus directly..all 'other' things came into existance thru him. The scripture says apart from him..indicating that he is not a part of those things that came into existance thru him. The bible calls him the first born of all creaiton. In rev. Jesus called himself "the begining of the creation by God'.
@brofun If Jehovah created Jesus directly, then that contradicts John 1:3. Not even one thing came into existence without Jesus. If Jesus wasn't there, then it couldn't have been created.
@BlaineKatsura Jesus WAS there for all other things created. He was the first..the begining of the creation by God, the firstborn of all creation..and the only begotten son of God..all other things were created thru him. It's not a contradiction at all. Jesus is the subject..the things created thru him is what is being spoken of..that would of course, leave him out of that group that was created thru him.
@BlaineKatsura Blaine..why do you think Jesus called himself the 'begining of the creation by God? And, why is Jesus called the only begotten son of God? Can you show or describe to me anything that is begotten that did not have a begining?
@brofun The Watchtower preaches a different Jesus. Yes, Jesus is God's only begotten Son, but He is not created. This begotten means that Jesus is unique. He's one-of-a-kind. He is Deity. He has no beginning.One of the names of Jesus is Everlasting Father (Is. 9:6). How can a created being be the Father of eternity?
@BlaineKatsura Blaine..Jesus own words in revelation 3:14. He is talking to John and identifies himself as the 'begining of the creation by God'. How much clearer does that need to be? A son comes from a father. Jesus is the only begotten son..something begotten is not something that always existed. The bible does not say he had no begining..it says the opposite. The only one spoken of as having no beigning is Jehovah, God Almighty. Jesus is not said to be the father of eternity.
@BlaineKatsura he is called 'everlasting father. If adam had not sinned and sold us into sin and death..HE would have been our everlasting father..literally. Jesus became the last Adam..he gave us what our original father took away from us..the oppurtunity for everlasting life. Thus, he becomes our everlasting father..for if we gain everlasting life, it will be thru Jesus.
@brofun Jesus does give eternal life! :D Jesus does say He has no beginning (Rev. 1:11-13). About Rev. 3:14: The Greek word "arche" is used here. Arche can translate into beginning, but also as well as source/originator. He's the Creator. All of the Godhead created Creation (Gen. 1:1, 1:26, John 1:1-3, Heb. 1:10).
@BlaineKatsura Jesus has the power to give eternal life because his father has put him in that position. At the end of the thousand years, Jesus gives the kingdom back to his father..this makes it very obvious that Christ is not God..but is God's son, as the bible so plainly states.
I think rev 1:11-13 must have been a typo..nothing said of christ being eternal
Yes, teh word arche means begining..or it can mean ancient, or old..or the first.
@BlaineKatsura Can you name a single bible that translates rev 3:14 as 'originator' or 'source'? The bible clearly shows that Jehovah is the creator. The bible never says all the god head created creation..it says Jehovah created all things. Gen. 1:1 shows that Jesus was a master worker with his father (pro. 8:22-33) Jehovah is the one speaking..and since Jesus was the very first creation..and all other things were created thru him, then Jheovah would certainly speak with him about creation.
@brofun The NRSV uses "origin", the KJV, NKJV, and NLT say "beginnng", and the NIV and TNIV say "ruler". Jesus couldn't have been created because He is God. Col. 2:9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." The attributes of God are also in Jesus. Jn. 1:1-2, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
@BlaineKatsura You keep saying that Jesus could not have been created because he is God..and yet, Jesus never said he was God..he said he was God's son..he prayed to God..he called his father "my God"..he gives his father the kingdom back at the end of the thousand years..he sits at the right hand of God..he gives glory to God..he is the only begotten of God..so, in what way could he be God?
col 2:9? Admittedly, this is a curious wording..and it does change between renderings. However...
@BlaineKatsura What does the context of col tell us? Look at 1:19. It says that this fullness existed in Christ because it pleased the father! And, there is nothing there that says Jesus is God..but it describes Jesus in similar fashion of a fahter and son..a son can be just ike his father..exhibiting qualities that are remarkably similar..and of course, since Jesus was created by God..and he has been with God the longest..he would know the father more than anyone else!
@BlaineKatsura Also..more on context..the context is about the wordly philosophy and teachings of men and warning us not to be looking to them for guidance..but to look to Christ, because there is hid the 'fullness' of God..for Christ has explained God to us more than anyone else..we are to look to the one who came down from heaven...but no where does it say he is God. If you read col 3:1..you will see that we are counseled to look to the one sitting beside God!
@brofun Heb. 1:3-5 says of Jesus, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."
@BlaineKatsura Look at what you are reading..it is clearly showing that jesus cannot be God..or equal to God..he sat down on the right of Jehovah..and he was 'MADE' so much better than the angels...and in 'OBTAINED an INHERITANCE and more excellent name than than their! This clearly shows that, Jesus was in heaven WITH God..and after he came to earth and succeeded..he was elevated to an even higher position than he had. If he were God..this would be impossible..if he were equal..impossible.
@brofun "For unto which of the angels said he at anytime, 'Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?' And again, 'I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?' " Jesus is the Shechinah Glory. If He was created, did Jehovah exist without His glory? In Jn. 8:58, He said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. " The 1st part of verse 59 says, "Then took they up stones to cast at him". What did He say that would make them want to stone Him?"
@BlaineKatsura You are stretching things..there are many things that are called the glory of God..and there isnothing that says the shekinah light was Jesus. That light was a manifestation of God's presence with the Isrealites..it was a symbol that he was with them..a manifesation of God's power.
The I am scripture has nothing to do with exodus. Jesus was simply saying that before abraham, he existed..the context show it was his age in question.
@BlaineKatsura him because he exposed them as religious hypocrits..read teh whole context..they were looking for a reason..didn't have to be legitamate..they decided to take his words and make them seem as tho he was saying he was God or equal to God.
@BlaineKatsura heb is simply refrencing psalms 102:5..which is done often. Again, revelationn says that Jehovah is worthy of the glory and praise because he made all things and because of him, all things exist. I do appreciate that you are interested in the bible..many people are not. What religion do you go to..what denomination?
@brofun Why does God command the angels to bow down and worship Jesus? (Heb. 1:6)
I am a Christian, all thanks to God. I'm nondenominational. I do not view Christianity as a religion. It's a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ. Religion is man's rules to earn salvation. Praise and thanks to Jesus, we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
@BlaineKatsura The word that is rendered 'worship' has more than one meaning..it can mean to bow down..to kneel before...to give honor..to give obesience. None of these have the connotation of giving worship to him as tho he were God almighty. Jesus himself told satan that is was to Jehovah that we should render 'sacred service'. Was Jesus speaking about himself?..was satan so full of himself that he thought (if Jesus were God) that he could get God to worship him?..a creation?
@brofun Yes, Jesus was speaking about Himself. Also yes, Satan is that full of himself to try to get God in the flesh to bow down to him. Remember what he said in Is. 14:12-14? His pride was his downfall (Ezek. 28:17).
@BlaineKatsura yes, I meet many now who refuse to say they are of a denomination..the confusion of the thousands of denominations makes it easier to to be anonymous in this reguard...a relationship with God and Christ comes thru knowledge of the bible..knowledge should be something that is unified..otherwise, it simply becomes opinions. So, when you say religion is man's rules..what rules do you go by?..and why?..and are the people in your congregation in agreement about those rules?
@brofun But what good is that knowledge if we don't apply it to our lives? There's a world of difference between knowing God and knowing about God. The rules I want to live by are God's rules. I know I fall way short, but "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). When we honestly repent, His blood washes away our sins. (Psalm 103:12, Micah 7:19, Hebrews 9:22).
@BlaineKatsura Jesus was the first to come down from heaven and be born as a human...and he was the first to be resurrected to heaven from the earth. He was also the first to be resurrected by God to heaven, and the last to be so..for all others who go to heaven will be resurrected by Christ. Jehovha of course was the first and last almighty God..there is no other God like him..he is unequaled in every way.
@brofun By your own admission, you say Jesus is the one who will resurrect. But is this power only reserved for Jehovah? Also, Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Does an angel have all authority in heaven and earth?
@BlaineKatsura Jesus said "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given me'..so, that would include the power to resurrect! Also..you noted it yourself..that power was GIVEN to him..if he were God, then how or why would he say such a thing..since he would already have that power..and it would be a redundant and misleading statement.
@Dethbane74 While these analogies can make a kind of sense..they do not harmonize with the bible. Jesus is not God, nor equal to God..he is the son of God..part of God's family,yes..but not equal to God. The united states is made up of states..but it's 'head' is the district of columbia, washington DC..not even a state! But, that doesn't really matter. Jehovah is the creator of all things. Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. He worships his father. That's clear.
i think that is very negative.. just think of it this way.. the celebration of one's birthday is not about being one year closer to death but by being alive and surviving one more year.. which is a great thing to celebrate. God is never pessimistic..
early christians never celebrated their birthday. Actually there are only two persons in the bible that celebrated their birthday and they are both non-worshippers of God. Which means God did not old His follower to celebrate their birthday and that's what JW are doing.
@elyahdarkp True, God is not pessimistic..but he is a realist. And Paul said "what sharing does the table of God have with the table of demons?..quite touching the unclean things" So, if the cakes, gifts, candles, wishes, well wishing, etc are all in imitation of the worship of demons, would it be intelligent to bring these things to God's table and expect him to accept them? Or, would it be more wise to bring ONLY what we know is clean and undefiled to his table?
First research how the ancient Biblical Jews and the early Christians viewed birthdays. They both condemned the practice as a pagan religious ritual. Then read 2 Cor. 6:14-18. One can not sit at the table of demons and the table of Jehovah at the same time.
MOREHARTH 4 months ago
OooooooooooooooooH!
Hard stuff
Can YOU provide a scripture that strictly prohibits prohibiting Birthdays???
lol
Hi Keith its me... Let us Reason ... :)
letusreason1234 5 months ago in playlist QQFJW (Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses)
The bible directly states that God urges people to avoid partying and instead reflecting of life,to use it for good because it can end anytime.Eccleciastes 7:1-4. Birthdays bring honor to the birthday person,and this is like a form of worship. It is important to be kind to people everyday,not just on their b-day.Birthday origins are of pagan beginnings. Research it and you will see :D
eternityandforever 7 months ago
Who cares about birthdays? If i were you I'd be more interested in who cut you hair !
gabbsdad 7 months ago
@gabbsdad- Sure. Avoid the subject and insult me. Typical.
EvidenceMinistries 7 months ago
Question to JW's. Is Jesus birthday for good or evil?
tdickensheets 8 months ago
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
shalimarsgirl 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Eccleciastes 7:2-4, "Better is it to go to the HOUSE OF MOURNING than to the banquet house, because that is the end of all mankind; and the one alive should take (it) to his heart". verse 4, "The heart of the WISE ONES is in the HOUSE OF MOURNING, but the heart of the STUPID ONES IS IN THE HOUSE OF REJOICING." We do not TWIST scriptures as video claims. We simply chose to be WISE ONES, not stupid ones. We don't celebrate life every year. We Celebrate Jesus' DEATH, he told us to Luke 22:19..
eternityandforever 9 months ago in playlist QQFJW (Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses)
This has been flagged as spam show
CHRISTMAS IS NOT REALLY JESUS' BIRTHDAY.Read Matthew, Mark, Luke in bible about 2/3 of way through bible.They never give a date of his birth.Jesus never celebrated his birthday.HE DID TELL US TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH at Luke 22:19.We keep his Memorial-Jehovah's Witnesses follow exactly what Jesus tells us. The bible says celebrate DEATH-Eccleciastes 7:1-8, verse 4,"The heart of the wise ones is in the house of mourning, but the heart of the stupid ones is in the house of rejoicing."BIBLE IS TRUTH.
eternityandforever 9 months ago
HI, we vote for God, in our hearts. God sees who's following his word, the bible. We pray for God's Kingdom and God to rule us forever-Matthew 6:9,10. Matthew 25:34,"Then the king(Jesus) will say to those on his right, "Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom..." Matthew 5:5,"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." 1 John 2:17,"...but he that does the will of God REMAINS forever".2 Peter 3:13,".. a new earth...righteousness is to dwell".
eternityandforever 9 months ago
Comment removed
MrSusielove 9 months ago
@eternityandforever Does your church or the elders of your church prohibit its members to vote or can a Jehovah Witnesses choose if he or she wants to vote? For example, if a Jehovah Witness decided that he or she wanted to vote, would the elders of your church, and its other members stop talking to him/her or look down at that person? Thanks...
mariamariable1 9 months ago
@mariamariable1 We do not vote for human rulers. The bible says they are no good. They cannot help us to live forever-Psalms 146:3,"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles(rulers),Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.verse 5,"Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help,Whose hope is in Jehovah his God." We pray for God's Kingdom to come to the earth and bring true peace and happiness forevermore! Matthew 6:9,10,33 Jesus taught us to pray for kingdom and put it first.
eternityandforever 8 months ago
When you really examine the scriptures CLOSELY, you learn that Jesus taught us to celebrate his DEATH, not his birth. READ Luke 22:19,20, "Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: "This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in rememberance of me. Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf." Eccleciastes 7:1-8
eternityandforever 9 months ago
I have a question for Jehovah's Witnesses... How come you guys do not vote?
MrSusielove 9 months ago
@MrSusielove We do not vote for human rulers. The bible says they are no good. They cannot help us to live forever-Psalms 146:3,"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles(rulers),Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.verse 5,"Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help,Whose hope is in Jehovah his God." We pray for God's Kingdom to come to the earth and bring true peace and happiness forevermore! Matthew 6:9,10,33 Jesus taught us to pray for kingdom and put it first.
eternityandforever 8 months ago
To each its own. However, for me, i choose not to celebrate the day I inherited sin from Adam. The day that cursed my life to be vain. It is only hope in our lord Jesus Christ death that redoes what Adam did.
"A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born." - Eccl 7:1
illwillcpt83 9 months ago
If Jesus wanted us to celebrate Birthdays, he would command it like he commanded us to celebrate his Memorial at Luke 22:19. The same people who
said Jesus was born on Dec. 25 (which he was not) said to celebrate his birthday...Jesus's cousin, John the baptist, was killed on King Herod's birthday (refer to Matthew 14:6, Mark 6:21). In Genesis 40:20 Pharoah killed his baker, on his birthday. These rulers on their birthdays killed people. Mark 7:13, men are obeyed, instead of God's word.
eternityandforever 9 months ago
@eternityandforever
So, what was evil, the birthday itself or the actions done on that day? Evil is done every day, not just on people's birthday. So, I guess by that train of thought, we should celebrate nothing. Wedding anniversaries? Can't do that...evil has been done on that day by SOMEONE...
The point is...how far do you want to take it out?
rodwyr 9 months ago
@eternityandforever
So... if Jesus wanted us to have a Cheese Burger, he would have commanded it...
Its a pity Jesus never wrote a cook book.
We gotta stick to cruddy 1st century bread and fish.
Invincnerd 9 months ago
dude get a life
maria7902 10 months ago
If you read as much bible as you claim, shouldnt it be obvious for you that the origins for birthdays came from the pagan habbits and celebrates of the ancient babylons and stuff. So my guess is that you havent read even 1 page of bible if you ask a question as stupid as this! Use that Computer of yours and gather some info about wizards and their stuff which is now part of you birthday celebrates!
1Minute60Seconds 10 months ago
Apostatas Falsos
Depredapostatas 10 months ago
I have read all the pros and cons about celebrating birthdays, and it's definitely wrong. Anybody who celebrates them is disobeying God!
mariamariable 1 year ago
Anybody is looking for loop holes in the Bible. I wonder is wearing diapers or sleeping with a teddy bear is a sin. Think about it!
tdickensheets 1 year ago
@tdickensheets WE need to be reasonable.God is specific in the bible.The more you read,the more you get a rounded out knowledge of what he is trying to teach us.He gives ONLY good laws that help us and keep us from harm.It's the best advice you'll ever be able to find...Start reading the bible everyday. You might have to find time, like give up a not-so important TV show, but you will gain so much more than you could ever know,so it's worth the time,pray for truth,be sincere and love God's ways!
eternityandforever 8 months ago
So people hare saying Jesus birthday pagan. Is this true!
tdickensheets 1 year ago
quick question for you: can you provide one passage of scripture that strictly forbids smoking crack?...nope...guess that makes it ok!!...you ppl in christendom look for every loop hole you can find
melodiousmusing 1 year ago
@melodiousmusing
its not a loop hole. JW tries to stays clean from pagan traditions. I just showed you the only two birthdays in the bible and the fact that Jesus didn't celebrate nor any other disciples in the bible. and i even told you how these celebration came about. its historical fact. Now if you don't like it then just don't follow, don't say stupid things with nothing to contribute. Can you give me a reason why i should celebrate?
silkyhands914 1 year ago
@silkyhands914 i think u have me confused...i, as one of Jehovahs Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays...i think ppl in christendom look for loop holes...the question was directed towards the gentleman in the video
melodiousmusing 1 year ago
here a good youtube link:
/watch?v=-rsEqW1Y5Bc
silkyhands914 1 year ago
If u look at the history books u will see that the first Christians in general didn't celebrate their birthday. If u look up the origins of the birthday u will find out that birthdays were associated with magic & pagan religion. the ancient belief was that the day of ure birthday was the day ure most vulnerable to demons so what they would do was gather & bring gifts to that person. Don't believe me Google it or Youtube it and while your at it look up xmas, Holloween and other crap u celebrate.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
@silkyhands914- First century Christians didn't drive cars either. Does that mean I can't drive? Seriously, isn't it possible to celebrate your birthday and glorify God in the process? Nowhere in Scripture is the strict commandment to abstain from celebrating birthdays.
EvidenceMinistries 1 year ago
@EvidenceMinistries driving cars isnt a pagan tradition! your right, the bible dosent strictly forbid it! but it does say to worship only jehovah. so having birthdays that are of pagan tradtion and not biblical is wrong!
vielasi 10 months ago
@EvidenceMinistries ok im gunna chip-in here, first of all saying about that stupid car thing is well just a stupid thing to say because the technology wasn't around back then...duh. Secondly to actually answer your question there are only two mentions of birthdays in the entire Bible, both occasions somebody died; now why would anybody have bothered to even include these events if they are bad? - Too show that they ARE bad, not good. And no i'm not saying that people die at your birthday.
PhilPho1 8 months ago
@EvidenceMinistries The bible clearly points to the fact that ungodly people celebrated birthdays.It also tells us not to focus on the day we were born, when no-one knows what sort of person you were yet,but on the death of a person-Ecclesiates 7:1-4.It is good to reflect on life, and be sober.Usually birthdays are partying, drunkeness, which the bible condemns-1 Corinthians 6:9-11.If you are serious, you should read those scriptures.See that God does teach us what he wants us to know!B-Days=bad
eternityandforever 8 months ago
@silkyhands914 "so what they would do was gather & bring gifts to that person." like the men did for jesus when he was born in the stable? if you want to talk about pagan religion and relations of ceremonies to it, then look at our western style weddings. investigate it.
wanitek 9 months ago
@wanitek well first of all, its not like jesus wanted them to come. if you know the story, it was king herod who told those men to find jesus and to appear to be peaceful. but then we find out that he wanted to kill jesus and order the massacre of many just born children, so i dont think that argument is great. futhermore jesus never celebrated his brithday nor did the early christians, jesus never wanted any glory he wanted the glory to go to his father. he did state to remember his sacrifice.
silkyhands914 9 months ago
@silkyhands914 ok this is cleared up. finally someone can clear up a matter properly around here.
wanitek 9 months ago
@wanitek as for the wedding stuff i dont know a lot of as i am young and still not thinking of marriage :). but im pretty sure there is some traditions that weddings have like the throwing of the rice which JWs DONT do. But you caught my curiosity ill look it up.
silkyhands914 9 months ago
lets look at the second birthday thats of the birthday of Herod. In that day they cut off the head of John the baptist so i can see why birthdays would be viewed as something negative form the bible's perspective. Everything thats in the bible is put for a reason and if these two incidents of birthdays are said in the bible there must be a reason. there also must be a reason why Jesus didn't say celebrate my birthday did he. can you show me any verse that says to celebrate the birthday.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
@silkyhands914 the beheading was an isolated incident as far as i see. because i always ask this. are beheadings part of the birthday ritual or was it a one off incident? since there are no records of murders/gross sin occurring in, lets say weddings or any other accepted feast or celebration, does that mean that it makes them ok to celebrate? think about it. how different is a birthday from an anniversary?
wanitek 9 months ago
Jw try to stay clean in all aspects. I know you guys love your celebrations so much you just cant let it go right. first lets look at the encounters of birthdays in the bible, there were only two. and they were both bad there wasn't even celebration of Jesus DOB and he was the son of god. Anyway, In gen 40:20-22 the pharaohs birthday was being celebrated by making a feast for all his servants and then he hanged somebody for all to watch.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
@silkyhands914 but even as JW's certain traditions concerning wedding feasts are prohibited. which i am referencing for birthdays. the fact that some cultures celebrate a wedding with rituals that are based on false religion and unscriptural why are JW's still having weddings? isnt it the content and not the actual celebration that comes into question? personally i do not care about birthdays or celebrations. i am looking for the soundness in this prinicple. because i dont see it.
wanitek 9 months ago
it's not that we couldn't celebrate birthdays it's how birthdays are celebrated by you people, wearing a wizard hat and plowing a candle and wish is pagan.
1Minute60Seconds 1 year ago
@1Minute60Seconds- Then why don't you give us an example of how birthdays should be celebrated? I'd love to be invited to your party and sit next to your presiding overseer. ;-)
EvidenceMinistries 1 year ago
5?
primakr0n 1 year ago
Listen, I used to be a Jehovah's Witness, and the pasage that they taught me was when Salome asked for the head of John the Baptist on her birthday. We were taught something along the lines of it being bad to celebrate birthdays because of that event. Also, in another passage (I really don't remember, I never used to pay attention to that stuff, I'm sorry) it said that a large number of people died on someone elses birthday. Still makes no sense to me...
natschmat917 1 year ago
It isn't the birthday that is the issue with JW's, it's the rituals or practices that come along with them(traditionally that is).
However... I myself don't care for birthday's(personally) as they seem to derive a sort of self importance under God. And if anything... I've always found it a but odd that people would celebrate their own coming into being. I mean... if anything, shouldn't we be praising those who made us([parents... God etc).
This of course isn't scriptural, I'm just saying...
SmalltimR 1 year ago
You have probably heard this..the ancietn jews never celebrate the day of their own birth..it was unthinkable for them to view their birth as something great. BUT..the bible DOES mention two birthdays..both by pagans..and at both, someone was killed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is enlightening. Also, the rites that most birthdays are celebrated with are in imitation of demonic religous holidays...candles, gifts, wishes, etc.
brofun 1 year ago
I'll give you a scripture where it says not to celebrate birthdays if you can provide me with one where it says to celebrate birthdays. In fact the only two times when a birthday celebration were mention in the bible (Gen 40:20-22, Matt 14:6-10) someone was executed. If you believe that everything in the bible was put there by God and for a reason, wouldn't it make sense that God had something very specific to say about birthdays with these 2 instances? Read Ecclesiastes 7:1,2.
RealBibleAnswers 1 year ago
Do you think Jesus celebrated his birthday?
Axelwolf94 1 year ago
No I can not. But I also can not find a verse that tells me I should not surf pornography on the internet or that I should not play vilent video games. What I can show you is the principles therein that show us such things are not acceptable to God and that all things are in the bible for a reason including two very unsavoury, violent birthdays...the only ones recorded in the bible. Spiritually mature Christians can move on from the "milk" and onto "solid food" and don't need "spoon feeding".
HanDeckardJones 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
W-O-R-S-H-I-P 7 letters J-E-H-O-V-A-H 7 letters
Whois-GodDotcom
CanWeKnowDotcom
False-ReligionDotcom
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
The reason those two birthdays are mentioned in the Bible is because they are linked to prophesies, Jehovah is the interpreter of dreams and Jesus was to replace John. JW's are going BEYOND what is written.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Don't forget Jesus birthday. He recieved gifts and the angels sang in heaven.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914 Angels did sing and shepherds saw him in a manger LK chap2, but astrologers with gifts, happend a little while later, because when they found Jesus he was in a house MAT 2:11 which logically did not happen that night.
The trip from Jerusalem to Bethlehem is under 10 Km, when herod got no news fast from astrologers he had males from 2 and under killed. Thats how much time went by between his birth and astrologers visit. Bible does not say they visited on his birthday.
Scripturesinspired 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheRealTruth1914 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Scripturesinspired You don't need to celebrate a birthday on the actual date. Herod had male children under 2 killed to make sure the promised king would not get away. Use some logic.
TheRealTruth1914 1 year ago
Bible talk about birthday 3 times : 2 times someone was killed.
But in Job 1:4 no one killed.
csinaljolyathogy 2 years ago
If J.W .'s are so paranoid about paganism , why do they recognise the Days of the week and the Months of the year. ALL PAGAN !!
ozzymandi 2 years ago
Comment removed
ozzymandi 2 years ago
Comment removed
ozzymandi 2 years ago
Comment removed
ozzymandi 2 years ago
if your gonna answer his question do it right. ha .. Its just that all the birthdays talked about in the bible a servent of god was killed or someone was killed. If thats not enough to say they are bad then idk whats it lol
flare5544 2 years ago
Comment removed
rock9711 2 years ago
There is no scripture that says birthdays are wrong.
In my 20 years as a witness I did think that the explanations of the 2 killings during birthdays mentioned in the bible was a bit far-fetched as God never said anything forbidding his worshippers from celebrating birthdays.
Sarai217 2 years ago
i'll try to make it as short as possible:
Jehovah wants we worship him and nothing else=>
a birthday is some sort of worshipping a human being since we often do everything that person wants right then.
==> we don't CELEBRATE a birthday, but there's nothing really wrong with congratulating someone being a year older...
twistereli 2 years ago
something i forgot to tell.
there are barely any notifications of birthdays in the bible... but the one of the daughter of herocles (if that's the right name) got the promis of her father that he would do Anything for her birthday. She told her mom and she didn't like Johan the baptiser the babtist. So the wish was to kill Johan...
twistereli 2 years ago
You have the facts very muddled up. The birthday was Herod's, and John's beheading had nothing to do with the birthday itself, Herod commanded it as a way to flatter Herodias.
lchiddle 2 years ago
Birthdays don't have to be a form of worship, to me they are just a mark of remembrance and celebration, just like a wedding anniversary. The problem is their are those who take this celebration to an extreme where it can very easily become worship.
lchiddle 2 years ago 2
Everything the WTS uses to 'confirm' their agenda is used to their benefit. How convenient.
poconoporker 2 years ago
@poconoporker And what benefit do you think the WTS has by not condoning the celebration of birthdays? Does it not seem more likely they are concerned about our relationship with Jehovah? All the rites of birthday celebrations have roots in the worship of false gods. Paul said it best..what sharing does the table of God have with the table of demons? Quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in! So..what is more important? You or Jehovah?
brofun 1 year ago
Almost everything is from pagan origin: names of days and months, using flowers at funerals, using wedding rings, etc. Do JW's use these? In fact, their was an Awake article that brought this subject to light. The final comment was it doesn't matter were it originated from but what does it mean today. I found this to be a form of hypocrisy, don't you think?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
In regards to birthdays...Its best to read this article..Awake! article of January 8, 2000. In that article, entitled A Balanced View of Popular Customs, ..this can EASILY be said the same towards birthdays...Also..do JW give engagement rings? Pagan roots The World Book Encyclopedia, vol. 13, 2000, p. 221..Wedding cakes? pagan roots. The Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 28, 1999, p. 565.
Do birthdays resemble anything in the bible? read the AWAKE folks..
rhdtv2002 2 years ago
Qouted from the Jehovah's witness insight book'' the bible makes direct reference to only 2 birthday celebrations , those of Pharoh of Egypt and Herod Antipas... it is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day which they were born into the world below.' ''
cookie97559 2 years ago
hahah..SINNERS?? GREAT REJOICING OVER THE DAY WHICH THEY WERE BORN? look at when Jesus was born..your first ACTUAL birthday is the day you are BORN...what happens? Jesus got many gifts..and was bowed down to...This is a CELEBRATION OF BIRTH of JESUS (a BIRTHDAY)...
rhdtv2002 2 years ago
@rhdtv2002 Look closely at the situation. the men who came and gave gifts were not worshippers of God..they followed a star. They were astrologers..and Jehovah had the isrealites put to death who practiced astrology. The astrologers alerted herod to Jesus birth..which resulted in the deaths of all the 2 yr old boys. So..the 'plot' was from satan..he used this 'celebration' as a way to have jesus killed.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun seriously no where in the bible does it even forbid to celebrate birthdays..wedding rings, vails over the face all have pagan roots..but honestly you think that what happen then is happening today..i cant remember the last birthday party that people where worshipping anyone or that someones head was being cutoff..Jews have ALWAYS celebrated birthday, the bible is not the evidence..look at history
rhdtv2002 1 year ago
There are THREE birthdays mentioned in the Bible.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
There are three birthdays reported in the Bible, two were pagans and one was Jesus! On his birthday gifts were given and angels in heaven rejoiced. Have you ever thought that maybe the two negative birthdays mentioned were to teach us about HOW we should celebrate a birthday and not condemn it completely? We can say birthdays are good because we are appreciating life, God's gift. We should not celebrate them as the pagan's have by taking a life, getting drunk, and thinking of one self so much.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
well, in the bible, jizabel, wanted baptise johns head for her bday, and thats wat she got, so thats why we dont celebrate, but im pretty sure that there is a scripture
johnsta13 2 years ago
actually it was herods birthday.. not the little girl.
On birthdays, the one who is having the bday doesnt give a gift but receives one.
D1ZaST4R 2 years ago
i'll answer your question if you answer one for me. can you provide one passage of scripture which strictly forbids christians from smoking?
TheSacredSecret 2 years ago
as much as i hate jehovan's witnesses all christians in and all religion followers for there blind stupidity i say
yeah good one fagtit: it is my birthday and i am: IIII I
channelzer0sok 2 years ago
I'm a jehovah's witness. I cannot name a scripture off the top of my head that says we cannot celebrate birthdays. Along time ago we did. We have found it's wrong. I haven't lived in that part cause i'm only 14. But there is a scripture where a girl had a birthday and she wanted a fellow mans head. (literally) So a birthday is like you saying you want your fellow mans head.
misshappygills 2 years ago
John 15:19
"Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU"
The celebration of birthdays are worldly.
That is all that is needed.
Can you provide one scripture that shows that Jesus and Christians celebrated theirs?
sklemetti 2 years ago
Can YOU show a scripture where Jesus or the apostles actually pooped??? Are we to assume then that Jesus and everyone else in the bible never pooped because the bible doesn't mention it.
buyplants 2 years ago 2
@buyplants Lol. Of course not. No one can show a scripture where Jesus or the apostles pooped.The bible doesn't talk about it since it's not important to God! Pooping doesn't make you a good or bad person. Anyone can use his/ her logic & discern that Jesus & his apostles did poop. However, celebrating birthdays did matter to Jehovah God a great deal because the bible does talk about them & also because like Kaney mentioned before birthdays originated with a Pagan religion as an act of worshisp!
mariamariable 1 year ago
If you're ready to take time to thank God for being one year older/wiser, then I see no problem with celebrating your birthday. Besides, God wants us to be happy, and isn't celebrating once in a while a good way to be happy?
BobDDevil 2 years ago
the bible only shows 2 bithdays and on both of those events presented negetive results but thats not the actual reason.
The reason is because birthdays originated with a pagan religion as an act of worship to pagan gods.
which is why the acient jews and early Christians did not celebrate birthdays. its the same with holloween and christmas
Kaney 2 years ago 5
Part of being a JW is analysing god's word rather than just reading it. IN JW bible (Mat.14:6-10) it says how a king's daughter had impressed his dad (god believer) and his friends during his birthday, so he PROMISED to give her what ever she asked for. So she asked for Juan's head (Juan was loyal to Jehovah). Since he had promised he didn't back up on his word.Therefore god now forbids celebrations because Aren't we supposed to thank GOD that we lived another year and adore him rather than us
Maggydlj 2 years ago
keep one focus on JESUS CHRIST and the truth will make one free.
sic1974 3 years ago
There is no truth in the trinity. The trinity is a given, an existance if you will. It is the obvious. Like a union. Example- The united states make up America. They are several that make up one in a unity. THe father, son, and holy spirit are one. Like a family. We see this pattern in life. Father mother and child = Family. a unioin. If one is missing the union does not exist. Protons, electrons, and nutrons = Atom. a union. And of course there is DNA. A map or a plan. Someone is thinking.
Dethbane74 3 years ago
that is an impressive analogy but unfortunately you lack scripture to back your claim.i agree the father,son and holy spirit are one.families or atoms don't function the same,yet the father,son and holy spirit do!.
sic1974 3 years ago
if the father,the son, and the holy spirit are one, then who is the almighty then if they are equal in power? Trinity is 100% FAKE.
melitonchiong 3 years ago 2
The Trinity is as real as you and me. Read 1 John 5:7 in King James Version or New King James Version of the Bible.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
@BlaineKatsura I know you believe that scripture is inspired..but it does not exist in the older manuscripts of the bible. It has been proven to be spurious. I was a footnote that a copyist or scribe put into an mss that was several hundred years old..it eventually was inserted into a mss that was 700 years old. It does not appear in any older mss. this should make you worry.
brofun 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brofun Then why did Jesus claim to be God?
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura blaine...Jesus never claimed to be God..he claimed to be God's son..nothing more.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun False. Jesus said:" I and my Father are one." John 10:30
Note how Jesus always cast out demons, cured the sick, and did miracles in His own name. Also, on several occasions Jesus deliberately said; "I AM". This would never have been taken lightly by any Jew of Jesus' time.
LeftyBlue 1 year ago
@LeftyBlue Jesus also prayed to his father that his disciples be one. It did not mean they were the same person or equal..he meant they were in union..unity..they were not divided. Jesus, when he said what is translated from the greek as 'I am' was saying he had been alive since before abraham's time. There is no correlation to the scripture in exodus where Jehovah told Moses that he 'would prove to be who he would prove to be' (a more accurate rendering of the hebrew)
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun In John 8:58, Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." I am is the same name God uses for Himself in Exodus 3:14. In John 10:30, He said, "I and my Father are one." In verse 33, the Jews said, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." In John 17:5, Jesus prays to the Father that He would be glorified with Him and the glory they shared before the world was.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura John 8:58, in context, shows Jesus is speaking about his existence and the time of it. He said "since before abraham, I have been'. When Jesus said he and the father were one, he meant they were in unity..not that they were the same person, or equal..for a couple chapters later, Jesus prayed that his followers be one just as he and his father were one..in unity. As for quoting the jews, they were looking for a reason to stone Jesus..THEY interpreted what he said falsely.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Zechariah 13:7 is a Messianic prophecy. God said, "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." The Hebrew word for "my fellow" is "amiti". This also translates to "my equal". God is speaking of a man who is His equal: the God-man.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Blaine, I'll research that and see what exactly is being spoken of here and who is speaking. but, to say Jesus is equal to God is to contradict his own words. He said very clearly, "the father is greater thatn I'. If he were God, then that would be a statement that made no sense at all..also, 1cor 11:3 would also be incorrect. Jesus is not God..nor was a he a 'god man' while on earth. He was a perfect human being while on earth.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Actually, it makes perfect sense. Just an example: Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he" (Matt. 11:11). Was John better than all other human beings? No. He did have a higher position and rank though. The same thing is in the Godhead. The Father is greater than Jesus in position, but they are both the same in essence and nature
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura And yet, Jesus is created by the father..that is why he is called the first born of all creation. He is also called the only begotten son of God. These titles clearly show that he is created. If by saying Jesus is the same in nature and essence, that he is a spirit, I can agree with you to an extent. But, the difference is that Jehovah is eternal..he had no begining..but, Jesus is called the 'begining of creation by God. Also, we would have to discuss the word godhead also.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Jesus of course prayed for the glory he had alongside his father in the heavens..he missed it. Can you imagine if you had to spend thirty three years of your life as an ant? Jesus was sent down from heaven, where he was a much higher creation..the firstborn of all creation..and spent 33 years as a lowly human. He had much glory in heaven..but, he was given even more glory when he went back to heaven since he fulfilled his mission successfully.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun But He was talking about the glory He and the Father share. God doesn't share His glory with anyone else (Isaiah 42:8). Also, in Zechariah 12:10, God said, "...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced..." Who was it that was pierced? Even in the NWT, Rev. 1:17, Jesus said, "...I am the First and the Last." God said, In Isaiah 44:6, "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura No, he said the glory he had alongside his father...he did not intimate that he had equal glory that God has..but that he was glorified by being next to his father in heaven. You and I can both agree that if we were in heaven, we would certainly have the glory of being in God's presence. But, that would in no way mean we were equal to God. As for the first and the last, it is a title that indicates something. Both indicate different things about God and Christ.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun If Jesus is not God, then why would He refer to Himself as the First and the Last? Isaiah 43:13 says, "Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work and who shall let it?" Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." You're right. We are in no way equal to God. He is Sovereign!
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Also...none of the scriptures you posted say that Jesus is God. He is given all authority in heaven and on earth by God..so, he has much power..but that power comes from his father. He was not created with it.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Jesus couldn't have been created with it because He wasn't created. Jesus is called "the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor. 1:24). Can God exist without power and wisdom? Micah 5:2 says that His "goings forth have been from old, from everlasting". This verse says Jesus is eternal. In Genesis 18, God appeared to Abraham as a man. He ate the food that was prepared and set before Him. Is it contrary to God's Word that God can become a man?
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura YOu need to read your scriptures in context..that is not saying that christ it he literal power of god and the wisdom of god..it is saying that christ was the sign that that the jews and the greeks were calling for..he was the sign that God was expressing his wisdom and power thru christ.
Micah is speaking about Christ..but the hebrew word that is rendered everlasting also means early time or time indefinite. this would be in harmony with revelation which calls him ...
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura the begining of creation by God. This would also harmonize with proverbs 8 where christ calls himself God's earliest production..acheivement. There is nothing in genesis that says God appeared as a man to abraham..when angels appeared or spoke to men, the bible often says that it was Jehovah that was before him or Jehovah speaking..but it was literally a messenger from Jehovah. The bible says that no man has ever seen God..and that no man can see God and live.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun "Time indefinite" is just another way of saying "from everlasting", meaning that Jesus is eternal. Regarding Genesis 18: if it was not Jehovah, why did Abraham bow low to the ground and say, "My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant." In NWT, Abraham called this person, Jehovah. Prov. 8:22 says, "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Jesus existed before Creation.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura no, it's not the same..time indefinite is a way of saying that the time is not measurable for one reason or another...eternity is a different story..jesus was created a long long time ago..but, he had a begining...Jehovah did not have a begining..since he is eternal.
Abraham knew the angel was from Jehovah..he was showing the respect a rightous man would to one of Jeohvah's representatives. As for abraham calling the angel Jehovah, he was recognizing that the angels..cont.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura were messengers from Jehovah..and that whatever he said, he was directing it to Jehovah.
Jehovah did not create wisdom..this is a metaphor...it is Jesus who is speaking..it is Jesus who was created..there was not a time when Jehovah did not have wisdom..that is how we know that this is not speaking of literal wisdom..but is Jesus speaking.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Prov. 8:22 (NWT) says, "Jehovah himself produced meas the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements long ago." According to the NWT, God created wisdom. Does that mean He didn't have it? Regarding 1 Cor. 1:24: Jews were looking for power and the Gentiles were looking for wisdom. To the believing Jews and Gentiles, Jesus is the wisdom and power of God.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura That is my point..it is not wisdom speaking from vs 22 to vs 31. If this were not Jesus speaking..then your reasoning would be right on...it would indicate that there was a time when Jehovah did not have wisdom. Right..Jesus was the sign..the explanation of God and what God was doing in their behalf..
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Then don't Jesus' works prove His deity? He showed His omniscience by speaking of His crucifixion quite a few times, Peter's denial. He stated His omnipresence, by saying that He and the Father would make their abode in believers and that where two or more are gathered in His name, He's there with them. He proved His omnipotence by not only His miracles, but His power over nature (walking on water, miraculous catches of fish), also by His very resurrection.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura no, Jesus said himself that he could do nothing without the father..the father was giving him th ability to do the works. As for his knowledge of his coming execution..he knew why he was coming to the earth..and he knew he would be hung on a stake..so, again, it's not a matter of being all knowing. It is thru the means of Jehovah's spirit that he is 'with' his followers..he is not literlly there..Christ and Jehovah reside in heaven. But, his eyes are on his followers..
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura by Jesus saying he would be with them, he was saying he was behind them all the way..he would help them..guide them..but it does not mean he is literally with them. As for his power over nature..again, it was Jehovah's power that he gave to Jesus. Jehovah did the same with some of his prophets..just not to the same extent. Moses threw down his staff and it became a snake..moses raised his arms and the red sea parted, etc. Jesus said many times that his power came from God.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun John 1:3 in NWT says, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." This verse contradicts the JW belief that Jesus was created because "apart from him not even one thing came into existence." Jesus had to have already existed before anything and anyone could be created.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Yes, all things came 'THRU' him..this indicates that Jesus was the means..not the source. Jehovah is the creator..he created all things..but, he created Jesus directly..all 'other' things came into existance thru him. The scripture says apart from him..indicating that he is not a part of those things that came into existance thru him. The bible calls him the first born of all creaiton. In rev. Jesus called himself "the begining of the creation by God'.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun If Jehovah created Jesus directly, then that contradicts John 1:3. Not even one thing came into existence without Jesus. If Jesus wasn't there, then it couldn't have been created.
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Jesus WAS there for all other things created. He was the first..the begining of the creation by God, the firstborn of all creation..and the only begotten son of God..all other things were created thru him. It's not a contradiction at all. Jesus is the subject..the things created thru him is what is being spoken of..that would of course, leave him out of that group that was created thru him.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Blaine..why do you think Jesus called himself the 'begining of the creation by God? And, why is Jesus called the only begotten son of God? Can you show or describe to me anything that is begotten that did not have a begining?
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun The Watchtower preaches a different Jesus. Yes, Jesus is God's only begotten Son, but He is not created. This begotten means that Jesus is unique. He's one-of-a-kind. He is Deity. He has no beginning.One of the names of Jesus is Everlasting Father (Is. 9:6). How can a created being be the Father of eternity?
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Blaine..Jesus own words in revelation 3:14. He is talking to John and identifies himself as the 'begining of the creation by God'. How much clearer does that need to be? A son comes from a father. Jesus is the only begotten son..something begotten is not something that always existed. The bible does not say he had no begining..it says the opposite. The only one spoken of as having no beigning is Jehovah, God Almighty. Jesus is not said to be the father of eternity.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura he is called 'everlasting father. If adam had not sinned and sold us into sin and death..HE would have been our everlasting father..literally. Jesus became the last Adam..he gave us what our original father took away from us..the oppurtunity for everlasting life. Thus, he becomes our everlasting father..for if we gain everlasting life, it will be thru Jesus.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Jesus does give eternal life! :D Jesus does say He has no beginning (Rev. 1:11-13). About Rev. 3:14: The Greek word "arche" is used here. Arche can translate into beginning, but also as well as source/originator. He's the Creator. All of the Godhead created Creation (Gen. 1:1, 1:26, John 1:1-3, Heb. 1:10).
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Jesus has the power to give eternal life because his father has put him in that position. At the end of the thousand years, Jesus gives the kingdom back to his father..this makes it very obvious that Christ is not God..but is God's son, as the bible so plainly states.
I think rev 1:11-13 must have been a typo..nothing said of christ being eternal
Yes, teh word arche means begining..or it can mean ancient, or old..or the first.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Can you name a single bible that translates rev 3:14 as 'originator' or 'source'? The bible clearly shows that Jehovah is the creator. The bible never says all the god head created creation..it says Jehovah created all things. Gen. 1:1 shows that Jesus was a master worker with his father (pro. 8:22-33) Jehovah is the one speaking..and since Jesus was the very first creation..and all other things were created thru him, then Jheovah would certainly speak with him about creation.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun The NRSV uses "origin", the KJV, NKJV, and NLT say "beginnng", and the NIV and TNIV say "ruler". Jesus couldn't have been created because He is God. Col. 2:9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." The attributes of God are also in Jesus. Jn. 1:1-2, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura You keep saying that Jesus could not have been created because he is God..and yet, Jesus never said he was God..he said he was God's son..he prayed to God..he called his father "my God"..he gives his father the kingdom back at the end of the thousand years..he sits at the right hand of God..he gives glory to God..he is the only begotten of God..so, in what way could he be God?
col 2:9? Admittedly, this is a curious wording..and it does change between renderings. However...
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura What does the context of col tell us? Look at 1:19. It says that this fullness existed in Christ because it pleased the father! And, there is nothing there that says Jesus is God..but it describes Jesus in similar fashion of a fahter and son..a son can be just ike his father..exhibiting qualities that are remarkably similar..and of course, since Jesus was created by God..and he has been with God the longest..he would know the father more than anyone else!
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Also..more on context..the context is about the wordly philosophy and teachings of men and warning us not to be looking to them for guidance..but to look to Christ, because there is hid the 'fullness' of God..for Christ has explained God to us more than anyone else..we are to look to the one who came down from heaven...but no where does it say he is God. If you read col 3:1..you will see that we are counseled to look to the one sitting beside God!
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Heb. 1:3-5 says of Jesus, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Look at what you are reading..it is clearly showing that jesus cannot be God..or equal to God..he sat down on the right of Jehovah..and he was 'MADE' so much better than the angels...and in 'OBTAINED an INHERITANCE and more excellent name than than their! This clearly shows that, Jesus was in heaven WITH God..and after he came to earth and succeeded..he was elevated to an even higher position than he had. If he were God..this would be impossible..if he were equal..impossible.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun "For unto which of the angels said he at anytime, 'Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?' And again, 'I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?' " Jesus is the Shechinah Glory. If He was created, did Jehovah exist without His glory? In Jn. 8:58, He said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. " The 1st part of verse 59 says, "Then took they up stones to cast at him". What did He say that would make them want to stone Him?"
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura You are stretching things..there are many things that are called the glory of God..and there isnothing that says the shekinah light was Jesus. That light was a manifestation of God's presence with the Isrealites..it was a symbol that he was with them..a manifesation of God's power.
The I am scripture has nothing to do with exodus. Jesus was simply saying that before abraham, he existed..the context show it was his age in question.
They wanted to stone him because they hated
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura him because he exposed them as religious hypocrits..read teh whole context..they were looking for a reason..didn't have to be legitamate..they decided to take his words and make them seem as tho he was saying he was God or equal to God.
brofun 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura heb is simply refrencing psalms 102:5..which is done often. Again, revelationn says that Jehovah is worthy of the glory and praise because he made all things and because of him, all things exist. I do appreciate that you are interested in the bible..many people are not. What religion do you go to..what denomination?
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Why does God command the angels to bow down and worship Jesus? (Heb. 1:6)
I am a Christian, all thanks to God. I'm nondenominational. I do not view Christianity as a religion. It's a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ. Religion is man's rules to earn salvation. Praise and thanks to Jesus, we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura The word that is rendered 'worship' has more than one meaning..it can mean to bow down..to kneel before...to give honor..to give obesience. None of these have the connotation of giving worship to him as tho he were God almighty. Jesus himself told satan that is was to Jehovah that we should render 'sacred service'. Was Jesus speaking about himself?..was satan so full of himself that he thought (if Jesus were God) that he could get God to worship him?..a creation?
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun Yes, Jesus was speaking about Himself. Also yes, Satan is that full of himself to try to get God in the flesh to bow down to him. Remember what he said in Is. 14:12-14? His pride was his downfall (Ezek. 28:17).
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura yes, I meet many now who refuse to say they are of a denomination..the confusion of the thousands of denominations makes it easier to to be anonymous in this reguard...a relationship with God and Christ comes thru knowledge of the bible..knowledge should be something that is unified..otherwise, it simply becomes opinions. So, when you say religion is man's rules..what rules do you go by?..and why?..and are the people in your congregation in agreement about those rules?
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun But what good is that knowledge if we don't apply it to our lives? There's a world of difference between knowing God and knowing about God. The rules I want to live by are God's rules. I know I fall way short, but "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). When we honestly repent, His blood washes away our sins. (Psalm 103:12, Micah 7:19, Hebrews 9:22).
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
@BlaineKatsura Jesus was the first to come down from heaven and be born as a human...and he was the first to be resurrected to heaven from the earth. He was also the first to be resurrected by God to heaven, and the last to be so..for all others who go to heaven will be resurrected by Christ. Jehovha of course was the first and last almighty God..there is no other God like him..he is unequaled in every way.
brofun 1 year ago
@brofun By your own admission, you say Jesus is the one who will resurrect. But is this power only reserved for Jehovah? Also, Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Does an angel have all authority in heaven and earth?
BlaineKatsura 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlaineKatsura Jesus said "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given me'..so, that would include the power to resurrect! Also..you noted it yourself..that power was GIVEN to him..if he were God, then how or why would he say such a thing..since he would already have that power..and it would be a redundant and misleading statement.
brofun 1 year ago
@Dethbane74 While these analogies can make a kind of sense..they do not harmonize with the bible. Jesus is not God, nor equal to God..he is the son of God..part of God's family,yes..but not equal to God. The united states is made up of states..but it's 'head' is the district of columbia, washington DC..not even a state! But, that doesn't really matter. Jehovah is the creator of all things. Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. He worships his father. That's clear.
brofun 1 year ago
If you dont believe in what Jahovas witnesses theach, why do you ask the questsions?
Dethbane74 3 years ago
To get them to do something they are forbidden to do. THINK.
EvidenceMinistries 3 years ago
If you want to celibrate that you are 1 year closer to death. Not really anything to celibrate if you ask me. Kinda depressing really.
Dethbane74 3 years ago
i think that is very negative.. just think of it this way.. the celebration of one's birthday is not about being one year closer to death but by being alive and surviving one more year.. which is a great thing to celebrate. God is never pessimistic..
elyahdarkp 3 years ago
early christians never celebrated their birthday. Actually there are only two persons in the bible that celebrated their birthday and they are both non-worshippers of God. Which means God did not old His follower to celebrate their birthday and that's what JW are doing.
melitonchiong 3 years ago 2
@elyahdarkp True, God is not pessimistic..but he is a realist. And Paul said "what sharing does the table of God have with the table of demons?..quite touching the unclean things" So, if the cakes, gifts, candles, wishes, well wishing, etc are all in imitation of the worship of demons, would it be intelligent to bring these things to God's table and expect him to accept them? Or, would it be more wise to bring ONLY what we know is clean and undefiled to his table?
brofun 1 year ago