@TheRatstomper Steel as per originals. They are tipped to stop penetration and flex a little more for safe thrusting. The longsword is also a touch lighter in the blade than most originals to reduce trauma injury whilst practicing, the protection we wear also provides for this.
@TheRatstomper Steel training weapons have moved on a long way in the last few years. We started with re-enactment weapons that barely flex at all. The more recent western martial arts sparring steel swords are designed to flex for safe thrusts and this has allowed for much more intense fighting and the incorporation of techniques which were previously too dangerous in free play.
@TheJoeGrosso We are based in the UK. Bristol, South West England and Caerleon in South Wales. You can find clubs all around the world now if you do some searching online.
Just goes to show that its not a question of which weapon or technique is superior, but which swordsman can better adapt to the other's skillset and armament.
@Venethor A counter is any strike made immediately following an attack from the other party. Historical accounts have shown time again that fighters are often able to strike after having been hit, depending on the nature of how they were hit. It is therefore vital in swordsmanship to learn to safely cover against a counter even when you make a clean strike yourself.
I was curious if in a real, life an death battle, could a rapier stand up to the abuse it would take from being bashed around by a heavy longsword. I myself have a hand and a half bastard sword with no formal training and i know when i get to swinging it thats alot of weight movin around. Just curious and hoping you could provide an answer.
@Docholiday4x4 If it was parried correctly in the Forte (strong) of the blade, yes. If you parried further up the blade you would likely have the blade cast aside or broken. Its also of note though that a rapier user would do his utmost to avoid a blade engagement through disengages, feints and footwork. The harder you swing the longsword, the easier it is to hit you with a disengage.
I love Rapiers in comparison to the long sword, I've yet to see a bad looking Rapier and the style of combat is great as well.
I'd learn to fence like that guy if I could but there are no clubs or schools anywhere near me and I can't travel very far, so that annoys me a lot, thankfully I love watching fights like this too so that keeps me happy.
@sirAthrus We have all had to start from somewhere. Some among us have come from other martial arts/fencing traditions, others started from scratch. No reason why you can't do the same. It isn't easy getting going from the beginning. But if you can find one or more people near you who are interested in doing the same, you can put a study group together and start learning. There are also national events in most countries now where you can get good instrution to boost your own work.
I see that you go to new college Durham. I did a quick search and found that "The Society for the Study of Swordsmanship" has a chapter in Durham. Maybe it's something for you?
@KevinVang1000 It's all fencing, whether rapier or longsword, if you are refering to the olympic sport of fencing then that is unrelated. You also need to re-watch the video, the rapier placed more hits than the longsword by a long way. The rapier is a finely tuned weapon exactly intended for this kind of fight, unarmoured civilian combat. Add a dagger as it was commonly used and it becomes even more devastating.
No, I didn't say anything about Olympic fights. I am saying like a savage fight. However, I prefer the Kitana over the Longsword since the Kitana can cut an ice like butter.
@KevinVang1000 Be as savage as you like, the rapier is a brutal street fighting weapon. It also weighs as much as most longswords with plenty sturdy enough construction combined with speed. There is also more to swordsmanship than how well it cuts. If you can never make that cut for example due to the tactical advantages of your opponent, its all rather pointless. Katana is a formidable weapon no doubt, but would definately not be my choice.
So your saying that speed wins against strength? I doubt it. If the rapier was coming for a block from the kitana, I'd say that in a few minutes, your rapier will be butchered apart.
Japanese steel is a lot stronger than rapier metal. Thanks to the salt of the sea...^_^
@KevinVang1000 It's not as simple as that no. Japanese steel is not 'stronger' than european swords. It is harder than most certainly, but that also makes it more brital. European swords are very robust for the most part. A rapier will happily parry a longsword whether it is European or Japanese. But most impoitantly, how many parries does it need to make? Does a real sword fight involve dozens of clashes? No, a rapier will avoid blade contact whereever possible in this situation.
Well that depends on the player. I was talking more about the metal itself, not how it is played because it relies on chance on the player. The rapier maybe a quick thrust fighter; however, the samurai will block it to cut it so that it would lose its edge. You might not know who's going to win, but I put all my bets on the samurai. For crying out loud, even the Mongols and Chinese lost to the samurai with their swords. That is why Genghis Khan left the battle of Japan because of their sword.
@KevinVang1000 I was talklng both, you cannot seperate them. The rapier will avoid engagement whereever possible is the pont, and through disengages will frequently manage it. As for the katana removing another swords edge, there are so many reasons why that isn't the case. But all rather irrelevant when the rapier would be looking mainly to thrust. The Katana is one of many great sword designs. But I would gladly bet on rapier and dagger against it based on plenty of experience.
@KevinVang1000 During the age of the rapier the concept of a 'knight' as a class was all but gone. Did the rapier go to war? Yes, in many incarnations from studier blades that could cut well to thrust orientated examples. Where it has excelled though is in civilian combat, but that is true of most swords, they have almost always been secondary weapons in most warfare across the world.
But here's the problem. You lack slicing someone's head off on a horse. That is why I prefer a butcher sword instead of killing them in a tap dance. It's not real MMA stuff. It's a dance martial art.
@KevinVang1000 Well everyone has a preference. But rapier is a far more brutal weapon that people realise. Particularly when you look to rapier and dagger, it serves no other purpose than to be a ruthless killer. And the longsword was no less an art form either. When you appreciate how much thrusting existed in medieval weapon training as well, there is more in common than you might think. The rapier is such a ruthless killer it can only be considered a true martial weapon.
@langying Just under 47" total. However most of the trainers we use now are 48.5 - 50". The sword in this video is a Hanwei Tinker longsword. At the time they were a good training sword, affordable, with good handling and a good flex. However, they didn't last, Lots broke in the club and we have all but ditched them. Now our preference is for the Knightshop synthetic swords or the high quality feders being made by a couple of suppliers in Hungary and Poland. My longsword is an albion Meyer.
Would you agree that sabers have both the advantage of being light weight like rapiers along with being able to cut alongside being able to pierce? Ergo; Would a saber be an ideal "hybrid" between longsword and rapier, when it comes to these kinds of duels *and* real fighting?
@GydoKamst Well the first thing to consider is that sabres vary substantially in weight, length and handling characteristics. They can range from almost exlusive cutters to an equal balance and even more focused on the thrust. The sabre is a good general purpose weapon, but it can suffer badly against a rapier and dagger (as is a common combination), and againt he reach of the longsword. The sabre is a formidable weapon, but largely of a different era and context.
Against a longsword user who is prepared to die, it's hard for the rapier user to land a hit with enough stopping power to prevent a lethal counter attack. But if the rapier user wielded two rapiers instead of one, the situation may be very different.
@andywong86 And there you have struck on the core problem of thrusting techniques, no matter what sword they come from. Thrusts cause a lot of damage and frequently death, but they typically lack the incapacitation of cutting/blunt trauma blows. This is why the rapier is so frequently used with a dagger, which makes it a much safer fight. Two rapiers would be rather unrealistic, as that was a duelling form only.
@andywong86 hmm Yes, even if the rapier user landed a lethal blow (with the exeption of a thrust through the eye socket) The Long Sword opponent still has plenty of time to deliver and even more devastating blow with the Long Sword, it being a heavier weapon.
@andywong86 Its true partially, a well placed thrust is painful and in many cases lethal, but lacks inmediate stopping power. But that is incorporated into rapier techniques. a swift thrust into the lead hand, for example, will not kill, but will completely handicap the fighting capability of the opponent. Watch the thrust and perfect block while recovering at 5:30, thats a good way to go against the situation you talk about (Also, I think you are referring to Rapier&Dagger instead of 2 rapiers)
Looks to me like the rapier benefits from its range against the longsword, and had the advantage (which is probably not suprising). Longsword was trying to cope with the range by thrusting out the longsword with one hand. Longsword did do better than I thought.
@deflibrarian Yep, rapier does have the advantage here, which isn't surprising. The rapier is purpose built for this type of fighting, unarmoured, one-on-one or small melees. Mike did do better than most here as he has more experience against the rapier than most. Adding the dagger for the rapierist makes it an even harder fight for the longswordsman.
Curious if all the attacks were linear (like the thrust, lunge, vertical slash), why don't you guys use sidesteps (you know to the side) to get an advantage, or is that taboo in fencing?
@serenadesilhout Only things that are taboo in this fencing are things that will get you killed. Whilst we do use sideways steps, we wouldn't in this fight. The rapier is mainly a linear weapon (in the Italian system used), and using offline steps against it is useless, simply too slow. To fight a rapier you must mainly treat it like a spear, driving forwards and binding it.
@serenadesilhout It shares many of the single time principals of the German longsword prinicpals. It also has a lot of shared technique with smallsword and sabre (although those are parry riposte in contrast). It also has plenty in common with sword and buckler, especially the later styles, of which it has a direct lineage to. It is in many respects a uniquely fascinating weapon to use and study, especially with companion weapons.
@OmikronZeta If you are talking double kills then not many at all, if any. Almost all the strikes in this video are clean, or a substantial strike which was met with a minor one. The reality is that one on one fights with any weapon risk both parties, this much is clear and documented throughout history. Sword fights are not like the epicly long movie re-creations. Both of these teach to kill an opponent in one or two moves. So each engagement would represent a single fight and have a winner.
@OmikronZeta The rapier is for civlian use. All swords in fashion in their period were used for duelling. The rapier was taught for self defence. Street fighting, civil defence, personal disputes, gang fights etc. It did see use on the battlefield but was not ideally suited. There were many weapons used by soldiers that looked the same but had slightly shorter and heavier blades, being then better suited to war. Essentially though the rapier is a specialist weapon for unarmoured civilian combat.
@guns1312 Actually you are thinking of the 'smallsword'. Although blades vary, the majority of rapiers are sharp on both edges for their entire length. A smaller number are sharp for half their length, and then a small subset with no edges at all, but these are much more rare. The survivjng rapier manuals teach cuts with the part used in the video. However, it was discounted after the light back edge headcut from longsword followed by much more powerful strike as well.
At first I thought if a rapier went up against a knight, the knight would lose due to lack of vision and lack of movement speed, but then again I realized a rapier user would have less spots to strike at due to the armor and would have to be really experienced to strike the gaps between the armor plates
@guns1312 A rapier would really suffer against full armour. However, the rapier was mainly intended for civlian unarmoured fighting anyway. Even if it did go up against someone in armour, full harnesses/armours were quiter rare by the time the rapier was in use, and it would therefore have much more targets available.
At the round starting at 0:56 "Mike makes a single handed thrust to the shoulder", I can see Nick hits him at 1:04 before being hit by Mike after that, why is it not considered as a victory for Nick? I can think that it could be considered not deadly enought technique for a rapier but not sure
@ProFF77 Indeed, I deemed it too insignificant a strike. To cut effectively with the rapier you need to strike key areas with good power. You can also make harassing cuts, which is what was seen here, but if they lead to you recieving a much more significant strike then they are pointless. Mikes longsword thrust went into the shoulder socket, instant incapacitation, the rapier cut would have been quite superficial.
That looks like fun. Say you have a one handed sword like a rapier are you alowed to use your spare hand at all? also I dont do fencing but if I had a sword like a rapier and I was facing someone with a long sword Id want to be much more nimble not restricted to just moving back and foward, using speed and agility against strengh instead of strengh vs strengh, because from what I understand a longsword would have been much hevier then a rapier, suited to much more powerfull strikes
@raysetiger285 Yes you can use the offhand, but it is rarely useful against a longswordsman, closing is too dangerous. Actually the weight difference between most rapiers and longswords is very little, typically about 500 grams, different handling characteristics of course. If you notice the disengages, that is the way to fight a longsword, the only engagements of the blade are when parrying against the countercuts. The longsword us much faster than people give it credit.
I notice that the exchanges are much more aggressive in this video, compared to your earlier Rapier and Dagger vs. Longsword video. I imagine this is because the longswordsman no longer has to fear the dagger, and the rapier fighter must be more lively with his primary weapon in order to effectively counter, correct?
@Victory357 That is part of it. But also because the other video was the first attempt and he had become more comfortable with it. Also, It was the end of a long session i that other video when we were both quite tired. The dagger does indeed make a big difference though.
Let me tell you something - if you guys (historical fencers) want to improve, you need to find out a real (modern Olympic) fencing club in a area and first of all, improve you footwork. What these guys are doing is simply funny - both from technical prospective, as well as from tactical.
@Victory357 Sure I am. If I wouldn't then I will not post comments here. If you red my comments, you may noticed, that I suggested to pay attention on a footwork. As for tactical aspects, I don't want even discuss this video. I understand that this guys are amateurs, but anyway - as a professional fencing coach I expressed my opinion. that's all. And last thing - are you aware, that modern sport fencing technique derived from best of western fencing experience combined?
@Victory357 Yes, of course, there are limitations in sport fencing, and bout differs from what you will do if you want to kill your opponent on a duel, but all I wanted to say that I what I see here is 1. Bad from technical prospective - first of all footwork, and 2. Terrible from tactical prospective. I am not referring to specific parry or attack - I am talking about principals. Of course, each weapon requires specific technique, but there are common things - for example - how you control
@Victory357 elbow, how you control your upper body. For example, there was a "flesh" attack that made me laugh. I see more stage fencing here rather than anything else. No offense, please
Incredibly, you're wrong on every single point you made. Firstly, the two fighters in this video are the head instructors of the Academy of Historical Fencing. Amateurs, they are not. Secondly, modern sport fencing has almost nothing to do with real, actual fighting. You can't hit too hard, some places of the body are off limits, epee and foil feel nothing like real weapons, and the list goes on. I would say Olympic fencing actually takes the worst out of historical fighting.
@Victory357 And finally, if you learn fencing from manuals, no matter what fencing sport, historic or stage - you'll be in trouble. Unfortunately, neither you nor me can't find anyone who knows how people fence 300 years ago. No offense, please.
@drysabre We have two sport fencing coaches and I have reguarly fenced with high level (including olympic medalists) around the world, I have won two rapier competitions in seperate countries against different opponents (including quality sport fencers). There are certainly things to learn from sport fencing, but a lot more out there, we have instructors and practitioners from many martial arts. If you think anything we do here is a stupid gamble then you are simply not seeing whats there.
@Nikos3000 Your results are very impressive. So, how was your experience against Olympic medalists? I hope you had a chance to fence against sabre guys, not foil or epee - because your historical fencing compatible with sabre. If you did fence Olympic medalists, can you name them, just for my curiosity? And if you had a chance to see what is a high level fencing, do you agree that what is presented here is not? You constantly referring to tournaments results -
@Nikos3000 But my point is that 1) Quality of fencing I see here is low. 2) European HEMAC Tournaments I watched on youtube as you suggested look to me like local unrated fencing events.
In my students alumni I have world class highest level fencers. I don't want to provide more details about myself for the privacy reason. So, to me, benchmarks are very high. In case you'll visit US, I'll be happy to meet you personally and we can continue our discussion.
@drysabre Well we will simply have to disagree there. I have fought great fencers and martial artists from much of the world. I have also frequently seen examples of people thinking certain fighters look crap on video when they then go to events and destroy the competition. Your comments couldn't be further from the reality of our findings when fighting top level fighters of all kinds. Please post videos of your fencing and we can atleast then get somewhere.
@Nikos3000 My fencing is widely available - I am referring to Olympic fencing once again. Look at the sabre at Olympic games - both boys and girls and compare yourself. If you'll still think that video presented here is about fencers of the same caliber - we have nothing to discuss. Let's finish this conversation. Thank you.
@drysabre But this isn't sabre fencing, and as for our sabre fencing, I have fenced an olympic sabre medalist and beaten him over the space of many bouts. That also does not change the fact that 'sport' fencing will inevitably look different to a martial art, when the intentions are completely different for a start. I am stepping past one video and actually looking at the facts of the last few years of people I have met, fenced and watched.
@drysabre Sorry but that fight does not impress me, it is nothing like a martial fight, no regard for their own lives at all, which is the huge difference between a martial art and a sport. The weapons are derived frome extremely light duelling sabres, nothing like the historical military weapon. From a martial artists perspective that was very poor, fighting like that gets both people killed.
@Nikos3000 I am sorry too. You still don't get my point. I am pointing on a level of professionalism, and you're trying to explain that modern fencing is a sport, not a combat. But neither is what is presented on this video - they also don't care about their lives.
@drysabre Sorry but that simply isn't true. The attention to self preservation and limitation of double hits is highly important. As for professionalism, if you don't like our style I will not change your mind there, I can only assure you of its effectiveness. But this is a pointless argument as you are fixed in your point, our combat methods are proven against top fencers and fighters, as are our teaching methods. To continue a comparison against sport fencing is useless, they share little.
@Nikos3000 Attention to self preservation is reflected in sabre and foil right of way rules. With all my respect to your dedication to historic fencing, I still see big difference in class between what you demonstrate and what even mediocre sabre fencer can do. As for your reference to proof of success - you didn't respond to my question: who of sport fencers you had a chance to beat. I am interested in sabre in particular.
@drysabre The right of way rules simply don't work though. The box decisions do not reflect a real outcome of a fight. Getting a hit a split second before you are struck is no good to anyone. You see a difference in class of what though? Sport fencers move differently because their ultimate goal is different. As for naming names, if you are so keen to keep anonymity you must have some comprehension of how ungentlemanly it would be to disclose information of others.
@Nikos3000 You didn't respond to my invitation to the club. As for my anonymity, I am not asking you to disclose your real name, I am just asking who did you have a chance to fence and defeat (of course, sport fencers). Limbah? Pozdniakov? Montana? Yakimenko? Homer? Smart? Lopes? Pillet? Tarantino? I am just curious. I feel like our discussion moved toward wrong direction. And once again, do not explain the limitation of sport fencing - I know that most likely better than you.
@Nikos3000 You didn't respond to my invitation to the club. As for my anonymity, I am not asking you to disclose your real name, I am just asking who did you have a chance to fence and defeat (of course, sport fencers). Limbah? Pozdniakov? Montana? Yakimenko? Homer? Smart? Lopes? Pillet? Tarantino? I am just curious. I feel like our discussion moved toward wrong direction. And once again, do not explain the limitation of sport fencing - I know that most likely better than you.
@Nikos3000 As you wrote, the attention to self preservation and limitation of double hits is highly important - 100% agree with you . But how comes then one of the guys here all of sudden start running on his opponent without any preparation? From one of you older posts I understand that you're in US. If this is true, your are welcome to our club - we can continue our discussion. We are in NY area.
@Nikos3000 And finally, let me comment one situation from this bout: Sabre guy (from the left attacks with advance-lunge and land his thrust right to his opponent chest - lethal hit in a real situation. Then sabre recovers from the lunge. While he recovers, poor two-handed sword guy is waking up an smack him to his head. As a countermeasure, sabre repeats his attack (remise), but he has enough time to parry swords guy dumb action. So, where here is self preservation concept?
@drysabre That is the very point of martial fencing, you can very easily be struck after a strong thrust against your opponent, as has been proven countless times historically, the rapier struck safely, then defended the counter safely.
@Nikos3000 Niko, while sport fencing is indeed very far from combat, this is not closer at all. And while sport fencing has a real benchmark - World Championship and Olympic Games, yours is limited by your inner circle. Once again, your are welcome to the club to have a personal discussion regarding differences.
@drysabre Sorry, but that simply isn't true on either account. But it is useless trying to explain as you have already decided your point. Neither am I limited to my inner circle, I regularly meet and train with fencers and martial artists from all around UK, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, the list goes on and on, high quality sport fencers and martial artists. The proof of our fencing is in our regular competition and sparring around the world.
@Nikos3000 BTW, I have a friend in Ukraine, former sabre fencer and coach, who is involved in historical fencing - there is a group of very enthusiastic guys. If you want, I can help you to get in touch with them - it might bi interesting. Thank you.
Thirdly, the footwork presented is in no way, shape or form supposed to reflect Olympic fencing, which is a sport and nothing more, and does not cover two-handed weapons such as the longsword. Fourthly, I would advise you to research the various historical fight manuals before venturing to call this "stage fighting."
@Victory357 Allow me to disagree with you. First, instructor's titles doesn't change my opinion regarding their footwork profficiency. Loosing balance, dragging legs, reacting on feints by moving entire upper body...Is this all attribute of historical fencing? Attacking without any preparation... Ignoring distance... What is that , part of the real fencing strategy?
I disagree with your disagreement. Whatever your opinion is on footwork, the instructor (Nick) has won the HEMAC European Rapier Competition in 2009 (there's a video somewhere on Youtube), so clearly this footwork is effective beyond your interpretation. I also believe you're viewing this fight incorrectly. When fighting with real weapons, half your defense is your opponent's sense of self-preservation, not proper form. So inevitably, mistakes and missteps are going to occur, regard-
@Victory357 I watched HEMAC videos on Youtube - and I can tell you that what I see here looks much better. HEMAC tournament is a real joke. To me it is a parody of sabre fencing. I think we had enough time spent on - discussion; after watching HEMAC I have complete understanding of what is your interpritation of historical fencing and I wish you the best of success in your fencing activity.
-less of the skill level of the fighters. In modern fencing, a fencer can be punished for "malicious" blows, which is something actual fighting rewards. Pommel blows, wrestling, half-swording; all are absent in sport fencing. You're incorrect on the manner of technique, as well. While many weapons carry over the same basic principles, the techniques and footwork used for a messer are vastly different for a rapier or smallsword.
Lastly, while it's true that no one knows for certain how people fought and died before firearms ruled conflict, we (historical fencers) read the texts which the old fightmasters produced, and interpret them as best we can, then we go one further and modify, experiment, and even create new techniques and strategies, by no means is historical fencing a "dead-end."
@Victory357 Thanks for your clarifications. I am not going to continue this discussion, but one thing is important to consider. What is presented in this video, is nothing else but another breed of sport fencing. If this will be a real fight, no one will run forward with closed eyes gambling more then fencing. Besides, I am pointing on concrete deficiencies of these gentlemen which are obvious to me, and you keep telling that each
@Victory357 weapon has specific tactics and technique. Yes, you're absolutely right. Problem is that you have nothing to respond to my concrete comments; you just trying to convince me that modern fencing is something different from historic. My position regarding this video is that this is not an example of high level fencing skill - no matter what type of fencing to consider. And I was trying to give an advise on how to improve. Nothing else.
@Victory357 Secondly, in modern fencing you CAN hit very hard. Different thing is that you shouldn't. FYI, just few decades ago, before introducing electrical scoring, sabre fencing was very contact sport. I had to see sabre guys in a locker room after tournament in a locker room. I saw, cause I am one of them. Thirdly, of course, of technique hardly depends on a weapon - this is an axiom.
@Victory357 Furthermore, sport fencing uses strips, BTW, I already advised FIE officials to consider round or square court instead of strip. Hopefully, one day this will happen. And finally - I am not comparing apples and oranges here. What I am saying, that for my opinion, these guys, softly speaking, didn't impress me. I think I have rights to express my opinion, taking into consideration my 40 years fencing experience (yes, modern Olympic). Even if, as you say, they are professionals.
first of all, great work!!! great music, great fencing. The spoilers are confusing the first time you watch the video, but really, it's better than saying what happened after the fact. This way, you know what to look for, instead of needing to rewind. Keep up the fantastic work! This is one of those videos I keep watching over and over again
@Grn077 It is by Vladimir Cervenka, a Czech supplier, cost about 700 euros and an 18 month waiting list. They look and feel fantastic, but the blade broke whilst flexing in a thrust 10 months after I recieved it, therefore I recommend you not use them for sparring. My recommendations are Hanwei Practical 43 for budget, Pavel Marek for the next price bracket, and Darkwood Armoury if you can afford them. I use a Darkwood as my principal but have all.
@halotango3 Thanks. There are groups all around the world and more starting all the time. There are also many larger weekend events in each country for those that cannot reach a club regularly.
Great video and song to go with it, the two different styles made an impressive match. Sword fighing rules! The Spoilers are also a cool addition to the video; description to complement the demonstration.
It took me until 5mins in to realise that the text was spoiling what was happening next. I thought it was commenting on what I just saw, which would make more sense. :(
@TheBraddigan Sorry it didn't work for you. Can never fully please everyone with any format. I got a lot of requests to do it this way, more so than any other. The reason people like the text before hand is so that they know what to look for, rather than have the text after and then have to rewind to see it.
However, with the better cam and smoother slow motion, I have considered removing the text fuily from now on. Will keep experimenting until I find the system which pleases the most people.
What is the make of longsword Mike is using here, i'm looking at getting one but don't really trust the threaded tangs all the companies seem to use on their swords nowadays.
@Grommit8365 This is a Hanwei Tinker model. Initially we found them excellent, they handle really well, flex nicely and were a good deal. However, in the long run they didn't last, they broke on the tangs either at the shoulder or on the thread. I'd recommend either the Albion Meyer, which is what we now use, or get a Knightshop synthetic. There is also a new Hungarian range of training swords that have had very impressive results and only cost £150, he will be at Fightcamp this year too.
Hm...I expected to see more passing steps made by the longswordsman to close the distance. Is there something about the rapier fighter that made such a strategy inpractical, or was it more of just the preference of the other fighter?
@SirKickz Its through experience of facing rapiers before. Passing steps are where a longswordsmen is at his most vulverable when fighting a rapier, the power and leverage of a passing step is not needed to strike or displace a rapier, and it is far more beneficial to be able to keep the sword out front in order to engage the rapier, before he can then close. We have done this test against longswordsmen all around the world, and always found the same thing.
Way cool. I thought it might be something like that, but I wanted to make sure. Is this a strategy that was learned from translated works of the old masters or something developed from experience? How did the old masters address the issue of facing an opponent with a significant advantage in reach, especially with the longsword?
@SirKickz Well theres nothing of note on how to use a longsword against a rapier. Mike does favour Meyer as a source, of which meyer likes quite pronounced guards with the right foot forward like that and the ability to cut in any direction with either foot forward. Typically the way of decribed of fighting longer weapons are to parry and grab (in the case of wood shafted weapons), or to bind and close the distance. The stance used here allows that best, as you don't need much power for that..
That makes a lot of sense, and thanks for replying! I'm a novice martial artist still cutting my teeth, and I'm definitely looking into studying western martial arts (it's a challenge, though, since there aren't any chapters of wma groups in the city I live in). Having done some mixed weapon sparring, overcoming a reach disadvantage has always been a difficult thing for me, even though I often have an advantage in quickness. I've enjoyed all your videos, and I hope to see more!
I have trained with the longsword for a short while and fought against my friend, who fights with a rapier. I realize how how hard it must have been for Mike, since a rapier is longer and lighter.
essentially, they would both die, because the rapier would unavoidably get a stab due to its speed, but the longsword can't be stopped by the rapier and it would fuck up the rapier man.
@Nikos3000 Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
@sabresandiego It would change the fight a fair amount. BUT, the chances of them meeting historically in armour would be very slim, seeing as the rapier is a weapon for civilian use (self defence, civil dispute, duelling), so neither party is ever likely to wear armour in this fight.
@Nikos3000 How do you theorize the fight would go if armor was involved? Would you be able to charge at your opponent and tackle him, or is there still fear of a slashing or piercing wound? It appears the longer the weapon is the better it is at unarmored combat (polearms best, then rapier/sabre, then longsword, then shortsword) however with armor I am guessing hypothetically something like a halberd would be best, and if you miss you want to tackle your opponent and grapple with a dagger.
@sabresandiego It is a hugely complex issue. Typically the longer more nimble weapons are better suited to unarmed combat, when terrain is not a concern. A fight with armour is typically handled very differently, depending on how much armour is worn as well. There is certainly a lot of wrestling and grappling in armoured combat.
@Nikos3000 Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
@jamey1138 Certainly not a case of practice, we are of equal skill in swordsmanship. I have fought top level longsword fencers all around the world with rapier, and they all start trying to work in the vor and take the initiative, and all come undone. The reality is that certain rules of swordmanship change when facing a different style of weapon. Fighting a longsword with a rapier is an incredably difficult thing, and I have yet to find anyone better than Mike at doing it.
@Nikos3000 I didn't say you're a better swordsman than Mike-- I said you were better at Capo Ferro than he was at Meyer, in those particular passes: you controlled measure (CF's strength) and he didn't bind (Meyer's strength). As I said, I know it's hard to apply longsword against rapier (I do it a lot, against Fabris students studying with Tom Leoni). Consider working from Meyer's Rappier section for a while-- it specifically addresses "Fremde Leute" who are emphasizing thrusts!
@LexPhilogus We have a lot of coroners reports and other historical documents to give us a good idea on this. There are certainly many examples of it happening, but perhaps what is more common is where both parties are hit, one dies and one survives. There are plenty of wounds you can take with a sword which would not be fatal.
@Kurogasa55 Thanks. This is one possibility. Mike, the longswordsman, had greater knowledge and experience of the rapier than most longsword fencers do, so he has already begun to adapt to tackle the rapier in this video, most longsword fencers using more passing steps, more withdrawn guards and heavier cuts, usually resulting in being hit more.
@Nikos3000 i must say although i loved the action, i did get confused with the names, as to who was going to do what, in your annotations, perhaps next time it may be better to use the weapons name rather than the person wielding it ... ie. the longsword parries the rapier ...
@shadow4u2find Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it! As for the naming, I have never done it by weapon type simply because most of our videos have the fighters using the same weapon types! Definately with these mismatched it is something I will consider for future vids, thanks.
@sjmorreale26 Best advice is if you want a rapier, get a Hanwei 43" Practical Rapier, available all around the world from lots of suppliers, just do a seach. If you want something really good, go to Darkwood Armory (US).
For longswords, best budget option is to get a Knight Shop synthetic training sword. There aren't many steel swords we find safe enough or durable enough, best is the Albion Meyer. The Hanwei practical hand and a half is a good start and cheap.
Great to see the two different swords/styles up against each other. I noticed several strikes at Nick's hand that looked like they were stopped by the rapier's additional hand guards. It makes a very good argument for complex hilts. (plus, I think they're pretty)
@JohnRaptor Thanks. It is not so much that the strikes are aimed at the hand, though some will be, it is more that the complex hilt allows me to fight with a pronounced guard due to the defence, and arc of defence that it offers.
@SethMan91 A result of modifications to fighting style required to face the rapier. Any longswordsman who has faced a good rapier fencer will find likewise. I have now used rapiers against an assortment of top instructors around Europe. The reality is you have to adapt your fight to suit the opponent, whatever they have.
@6shotJack Thanks, that was sadly the most expensive training rapier I ever bought, and it snapped after ten months! My preferenace is for Darkwood Armoury (US) rapiers, intermediate prices, excellent quality, build, handling and service.
There are some decent rapiers about for a good price though if you wanted one, like Hanwei products, which many of our members use.
A truly great vid, slow motion, explanations, and most importantly: a great fight! The fast one-hand rapier must be very difficult to counter due to it's reach, but the longswordwielder did a great job standing his ground! That's how it should look into movies; uncertain denouement rather than choerography :-)
@rapierlynx There are a few small references in things like Swetnams manual, but its very minor, in essence no, there aren't. There are of course plenty of historical accounts of the weapons meeting, and can therefore assume the participants went into the fight with the knowledge of their own weapon, and perhaps the enemies, and simply adapted to survive.
these guys are both very good. very quick reflexes. the longswords blade looks a little short in this video though. where did you get these training weapons? it would also counter the rapier a bit better with a more complex guard, something with a ring on it would've deflected many of the rapier stabs that went through. anyway, good vid.
@truemonster1 Thanks. The longsword is a Hanwei Tinker, both weapons here are marginally shorter than average for their period, which isn't to say they are inccurate, but we like to use a variety of weapons in terms of proportions.
I complex hilt would indeed help, but we were simply using the stereotypical weapons for this fight to display in many respects how a fight can play out with mixed weapons such as these.
@Nikos3000 yeah, i didnt mean to sound critical or negative. i enjoyed the vid as well as some of your others. i wish there was a group in my area that did this and that didnt conflict with my work schedule so much.
@truemonster1 Yeh I know, I was purely giving a bit more info. The reality is if you don't have a group nearby you simply have to start one, most instructors of HEMA have started that way, ground up, get a study group of friends together and basic kit, get some manuals or modern interpretations and start developing your technique, and get to national events when you can for instruction by mroe experienced coaches.
@Nikos3000 i meant a group willing to mix weapon types, that lookked really fun. of course i have very little formal weapons training, but i do like to spar with friends, only problem with that is my friends are too tentative and fearful. whereas i look at it like training for a fight. i have fun, but i go fast and i attack when i see an opening. i try to make it realistic and i dont use things that are impractical. oh well. i wish i could find some folks to spar with. where are you guys?
What are these sparring weapons made of?
TheRatstomper 5 days ago
@TheRatstomper Steel as per originals. They are tipped to stop penetration and flex a little more for safe thrusting. The longsword is also a touch lighter in the blade than most originals to reduce trauma injury whilst practicing, the protection we wear also provides for this.
Nikos3000 4 days ago
@Nikos3000 Ah, very cool. I thought it looked a little springy for steel, guess I was mistaken.
TheRatstomper 20 hours ago
@TheRatstomper Steel training weapons have moved on a long way in the last few years. We started with re-enactment weapons that barely flex at all. The more recent western martial arts sparring steel swords are designed to flex for safe thrusts and this has allowed for much more intense fighting and the incorporation of techniques which were previously too dangerous in free play.
Nikos3000 16 hours ago
MY GOD, this is the most awesome thing ever. I would pay large sums of money to come to this school and learn and spar. What state is this in?
TheJoeGrosso 1 week ago
@TheJoeGrosso We are based in the UK. Bristol, South West England and Caerleon in South Wales. You can find clubs all around the world now if you do some searching online.
Nikos3000 16 hours ago
I about died when I heard the kill bill music
streetgangtm 1 week ago
Just goes to show that its not a question of which weapon or technique is superior, but which swordsman can better adapt to the other's skillset and armament.
Jensaarai1 1 week ago
Rapier wielder ever heard of side step?
dtLSpiraL 2 weeks ago
@dtLSpiraL Yes, they have only limited usage in Capo Ferros system and no usage against a longsword,
Nikos3000 16 hours ago
I'm just curious, but is it still called a counter when it's following a hit? I thought a counter would be following a parry or a void. :O
Venethor 3 weeks ago
@Venethor A counter is any strike made immediately following an attack from the other party. Historical accounts have shown time again that fighters are often able to strike after having been hit, depending on the nature of how they were hit. It is therefore vital in swordsmanship to learn to safely cover against a counter even when you make a clean strike yourself.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
i came here because of runescape lol
shadowjuan2 3 weeks ago
@shadowjuan2 me too :D
Fieroxe 3 weeks ago
I was curious if in a real, life an death battle, could a rapier stand up to the abuse it would take from being bashed around by a heavy longsword. I myself have a hand and a half bastard sword with no formal training and i know when i get to swinging it thats alot of weight movin around. Just curious and hoping you could provide an answer.
Docholiday4x4 1 month ago
@Docholiday4x4 If it was parried correctly in the Forte (strong) of the blade, yes. If you parried further up the blade you would likely have the blade cast aside or broken. Its also of note though that a rapier user would do his utmost to avoid a blade engagement through disengages, feints and footwork. The harder you swing the longsword, the easier it is to hit you with a disengage.
Nikos3000 1 month ago
I love Rapiers in comparison to the long sword, I've yet to see a bad looking Rapier and the style of combat is great as well.
I'd learn to fence like that guy if I could but there are no clubs or schools anywhere near me and I can't travel very far, so that annoys me a lot, thankfully I love watching fights like this too so that keeps me happy.
sirAthrus 2 months ago
@sirAthrus We have all had to start from somewhere. Some among us have come from other martial arts/fencing traditions, others started from scratch. No reason why you can't do the same. It isn't easy getting going from the beginning. But if you can find one or more people near you who are interested in doing the same, you can put a study group together and start learning. There are also national events in most countries now where you can get good instrution to boost your own work.
Nikos3000 1 month ago
@sirAthrus
I see that you go to new college Durham. I did a quick search and found that "The Society for the Study of Swordsmanship" has a chapter in Durham. Maybe it's something for you?
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
@gurkfisk89 Oh that was about a year and a half ago, I'm no longer near there.
Thanks for taking the time to look though.
sirAthrus 1 month ago
@sirAthrus
No problem, to bad I couldn't help you.
gurkfisk89 1 month ago
Fencing lost...
It's metal is too light to go against the longsword. I prefer a Kitana vs the Longsword.
KevinVang1000 2 months ago
@KevinVang1000 It's all fencing, whether rapier or longsword, if you are refering to the olympic sport of fencing then that is unrelated. You also need to re-watch the video, the rapier placed more hits than the longsword by a long way. The rapier is a finely tuned weapon exactly intended for this kind of fight, unarmoured civilian combat. Add a dagger as it was commonly used and it becomes even more devastating.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
No, I didn't say anything about Olympic fights. I am saying like a savage fight. However, I prefer the Kitana over the Longsword since the Kitana can cut an ice like butter.
KevinVang1000 3 weeks ago
@KevinVang1000 Be as savage as you like, the rapier is a brutal street fighting weapon. It also weighs as much as most longswords with plenty sturdy enough construction combined with speed. There is also more to swordsmanship than how well it cuts. If you can never make that cut for example due to the tactical advantages of your opponent, its all rather pointless. Katana is a formidable weapon no doubt, but would definately not be my choice.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
So your saying that speed wins against strength? I doubt it. If the rapier was coming for a block from the kitana, I'd say that in a few minutes, your rapier will be butchered apart.
Japanese steel is a lot stronger than rapier metal. Thanks to the salt of the sea...^_^
KevinVang1000 3 weeks ago
@KevinVang1000 It's not as simple as that no. Japanese steel is not 'stronger' than european swords. It is harder than most certainly, but that also makes it more brital. European swords are very robust for the most part. A rapier will happily parry a longsword whether it is European or Japanese. But most impoitantly, how many parries does it need to make? Does a real sword fight involve dozens of clashes? No, a rapier will avoid blade contact whereever possible in this situation.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
Well that depends on the player. I was talking more about the metal itself, not how it is played because it relies on chance on the player. The rapier maybe a quick thrust fighter; however, the samurai will block it to cut it so that it would lose its edge. You might not know who's going to win, but I put all my bets on the samurai. For crying out loud, even the Mongols and Chinese lost to the samurai with their swords. That is why Genghis Khan left the battle of Japan because of their sword.
KevinVang1000 3 weeks ago
@KevinVang1000 I was talklng both, you cannot seperate them. The rapier will avoid engagement whereever possible is the pont, and through disengages will frequently manage it. As for the katana removing another swords edge, there are so many reasons why that isn't the case. But all rather irrelevant when the rapier would be looking mainly to thrust. The Katana is one of many great sword designs. But I would gladly bet on rapier and dagger against it based on plenty of experience.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
Is there a history that knights use rapier to go to war?
KevinVang1000 3 weeks ago
@KevinVang1000 During the age of the rapier the concept of a 'knight' as a class was all but gone. Did the rapier go to war? Yes, in many incarnations from studier blades that could cut well to thrust orientated examples. Where it has excelled though is in civilian combat, but that is true of most swords, they have almost always been secondary weapons in most warfare across the world.
Nikos3000 3 weeks ago
But here's the problem. You lack slicing someone's head off on a horse. That is why I prefer a butcher sword instead of killing them in a tap dance. It's not real MMA stuff. It's a dance martial art.
KevinVang1000 3 weeks ago
@KevinVang1000 Well everyone has a preference. But rapier is a far more brutal weapon that people realise. Particularly when you look to rapier and dagger, it serves no other purpose than to be a ruthless killer. And the longsword was no less an art form either. When you appreciate how much thrusting existed in medieval weapon training as well, there is more in common than you might think. The rapier is such a ruthless killer it can only be considered a true martial weapon.
Nikos3000 2 weeks ago
I've a question, what's the length of the longsword being used here?
langying 2 months ago
@langying Just under 47" total. However most of the trainers we use now are 48.5 - 50". The sword in this video is a Hanwei Tinker longsword. At the time they were a good training sword, affordable, with good handling and a good flex. However, they didn't last, Lots broke in the club and we have all but ditched them. Now our preference is for the Knightshop synthetic swords or the high quality feders being made by a couple of suppliers in Hungary and Poland. My longsword is an albion Meyer.
Nikos3000 2 months ago
Would you agree that sabers have both the advantage of being light weight like rapiers along with being able to cut alongside being able to pierce? Ergo; Would a saber be an ideal "hybrid" between longsword and rapier, when it comes to these kinds of duels *and* real fighting?
GydoKamst 2 months ago
@GydoKamst Well the first thing to consider is that sabres vary substantially in weight, length and handling characteristics. They can range from almost exlusive cutters to an equal balance and even more focused on the thrust. The sabre is a good general purpose weapon, but it can suffer badly against a rapier and dagger (as is a common combination), and againt he reach of the longsword. The sabre is a formidable weapon, but largely of a different era and context.
Nikos3000 2 months ago
Against a longsword user who is prepared to die, it's hard for the rapier user to land a hit with enough stopping power to prevent a lethal counter attack. But if the rapier user wielded two rapiers instead of one, the situation may be very different.
andywong86 2 months ago
@andywong86 And there you have struck on the core problem of thrusting techniques, no matter what sword they come from. Thrusts cause a lot of damage and frequently death, but they typically lack the incapacitation of cutting/blunt trauma blows. This is why the rapier is so frequently used with a dagger, which makes it a much safer fight. Two rapiers would be rather unrealistic, as that was a duelling form only.
Nikos3000 2 months ago
@andywong86 hmm Yes, even if the rapier user landed a lethal blow (with the exeption of a thrust through the eye socket) The Long Sword opponent still has plenty of time to deliver and even more devastating blow with the Long Sword, it being a heavier weapon.
AesirCharm 2 months ago
@andywong86 Its true partially, a well placed thrust is painful and in many cases lethal, but lacks inmediate stopping power. But that is incorporated into rapier techniques. a swift thrust into the lead hand, for example, will not kill, but will completely handicap the fighting capability of the opponent. Watch the thrust and perfect block while recovering at 5:30, thats a good way to go against the situation you talk about (Also, I think you are referring to Rapier&Dagger instead of 2 rapiers)
ProFF77 2 months ago
Looks to me like the rapier benefits from its range against the longsword, and had the advantage (which is probably not suprising). Longsword was trying to cope with the range by thrusting out the longsword with one hand. Longsword did do better than I thought.
deflibrarian 3 months ago
@deflibrarian Yep, rapier does have the advantage here, which isn't surprising. The rapier is purpose built for this type of fighting, unarmoured, one-on-one or small melees. Mike did do better than most here as he has more experience against the rapier than most. Adding the dagger for the rapierist makes it an even harder fight for the longswordsman.
Nikos3000 2 months ago
Curious if all the attacks were linear (like the thrust, lunge, vertical slash), why don't you guys use sidesteps (you know to the side) to get an advantage, or is that taboo in fencing?
serenadesilhout 3 months ago
@serenadesilhout Only things that are taboo in this fencing are things that will get you killed. Whilst we do use sideways steps, we wouldn't in this fight. The rapier is mainly a linear weapon (in the Italian system used), and using offline steps against it is useless, simply too slow. To fight a rapier you must mainly treat it like a spear, driving forwards and binding it.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
@Nikos3000 interesting - not many weapons I can recall like the rapier
serenadesilhout 3 months ago
@serenadesilhout It shares many of the single time principals of the German longsword prinicpals. It also has a lot of shared technique with smallsword and sabre (although those are parry riposte in contrast). It also has plenty in common with sword and buckler, especially the later styles, of which it has a direct lineage to. It is in many respects a uniquely fascinating weapon to use and study, especially with companion weapons.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
So... how many times did they each die, in this match? If this video is any indication, the only way to win a swordfight is to avoid it 0_0 !
OmikronZeta 3 months ago
@OmikronZeta If you are talking double kills then not many at all, if any. Almost all the strikes in this video are clean, or a substantial strike which was met with a minor one. The reality is that one on one fights with any weapon risk both parties, this much is clear and documented throughout history. Sword fights are not like the epicly long movie re-creations. Both of these teach to kill an opponent in one or two moves. So each engagement would represent a single fight and have a winner.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
@Nikos3000 Ah, thanks! This is mainly for duels and such, or for warfare?
OmikronZeta 3 months ago
@Nikos3000 Ah, thanks! Is this discipline mainly for duels and such, or is it for warfare?
OmikronZeta 3 months ago
@OmikronZeta The rapier is for civlian use. All swords in fashion in their period were used for duelling. The rapier was taught for self defence. Street fighting, civil defence, personal disputes, gang fights etc. It did see use on the battlefield but was not ideally suited. There were many weapons used by soldiers that looked the same but had slightly shorter and heavier blades, being then better suited to war. Essentially though the rapier is a specialist weapon for unarmoured civilian combat.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
This song matches pretty well with the sparring match.
What is it called?
ed88888 3 months ago
At 6:40 Mike wouldn't have received an injury to the leg, cause the only sharp point of the rapier is the tip. Correct me if I'm wrong
guns1312 3 months ago
@guns1312 Actually you are thinking of the 'smallsword'. Although blades vary, the majority of rapiers are sharp on both edges for their entire length. A smaller number are sharp for half their length, and then a small subset with no edges at all, but these are much more rare. The survivjng rapier manuals teach cuts with the part used in the video. However, it was discounted after the light back edge headcut from longsword followed by much more powerful strike as well.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
Comment removed
guns1312 3 months ago
At first I thought if a rapier went up against a knight, the knight would lose due to lack of vision and lack of movement speed, but then again I realized a rapier user would have less spots to strike at due to the armor and would have to be really experienced to strike the gaps between the armor plates
guns1312 3 months ago
@guns1312 A rapier would really suffer against full armour. However, the rapier was mainly intended for civlian unarmoured fighting anyway. Even if it did go up against someone in armour, full harnesses/armours were quiter rare by the time the rapier was in use, and it would therefore have much more targets available.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
At the round starting at 0:56 "Mike makes a single handed thrust to the shoulder", I can see Nick hits him at 1:04 before being hit by Mike after that, why is it not considered as a victory for Nick? I can think that it could be considered not deadly enought technique for a rapier but not sure
ProFF77 3 months ago
@ProFF77 Indeed, I deemed it too insignificant a strike. To cut effectively with the rapier you need to strike key areas with good power. You can also make harassing cuts, which is what was seen here, but if they lead to you recieving a much more significant strike then they are pointless. Mikes longsword thrust went into the shoulder socket, instant incapacitation, the rapier cut would have been quite superficial.
Nikos3000 3 months ago
That looks like fun. Say you have a one handed sword like a rapier are you alowed to use your spare hand at all? also I dont do fencing but if I had a sword like a rapier and I was facing someone with a long sword Id want to be much more nimble not restricted to just moving back and foward, using speed and agility against strengh instead of strengh vs strengh, because from what I understand a longsword would have been much hevier then a rapier, suited to much more powerfull strikes
raysetiger285 4 months ago
@raysetiger285 Yes you can use the offhand, but it is rarely useful against a longswordsman, closing is too dangerous. Actually the weight difference between most rapiers and longswords is very little, typically about 500 grams, different handling characteristics of course. If you notice the disengages, that is the way to fight a longsword, the only engagements of the blade are when parrying against the countercuts. The longsword us much faster than people give it credit.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
I notice that the exchanges are much more aggressive in this video, compared to your earlier Rapier and Dagger vs. Longsword video. I imagine this is because the longswordsman no longer has to fear the dagger, and the rapier fighter must be more lively with his primary weapon in order to effectively counter, correct?
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 That is part of it. But also because the other video was the first attempt and he had become more comfortable with it. Also, It was the end of a long session i that other video when we were both quite tired. The dagger does indeed make a big difference though.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
Let me tell you something - if you guys (historical fencers) want to improve, you need to find out a real (modern Olympic) fencing club in a area and first of all, improve you footwork. What these guys are doing is simply funny - both from technical prospective, as well as from tactical.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre
Are you aware the techniques presented have nothing to do with modern "sport" fencing, and are lifted directly from historical fight manuals?
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 Sure I am. If I wouldn't then I will not post comments here. If you red my comments, you may noticed, that I suggested to pay attention on a footwork. As for tactical aspects, I don't want even discuss this video. I understand that this guys are amateurs, but anyway - as a professional fencing coach I expressed my opinion. that's all. And last thing - are you aware, that modern sport fencing technique derived from best of western fencing experience combined?
drysabre 4 months ago
@Victory357 Yes, of course, there are limitations in sport fencing, and bout differs from what you will do if you want to kill your opponent on a duel, but all I wanted to say that I what I see here is 1. Bad from technical prospective - first of all footwork, and 2. Terrible from tactical prospective. I am not referring to specific parry or attack - I am talking about principals. Of course, each weapon requires specific technique, but there are common things - for example - how you control
drysabre 4 months ago
@Victory357 elbow, how you control your upper body. For example, there was a "flesh" attack that made me laugh. I see more stage fencing here rather than anything else. No offense, please
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre
Incredibly, you're wrong on every single point you made. Firstly, the two fighters in this video are the head instructors of the Academy of Historical Fencing. Amateurs, they are not. Secondly, modern sport fencing has almost nothing to do with real, actual fighting. You can't hit too hard, some places of the body are off limits, epee and foil feel nothing like real weapons, and the list goes on. I would say Olympic fencing actually takes the worst out of historical fighting.
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 And finally, if you learn fencing from manuals, no matter what fencing sport, historic or stage - you'll be in trouble. Unfortunately, neither you nor me can't find anyone who knows how people fence 300 years ago. No offense, please.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre We have two sport fencing coaches and I have reguarly fenced with high level (including olympic medalists) around the world, I have won two rapier competitions in seperate countries against different opponents (including quality sport fencers). There are certainly things to learn from sport fencing, but a lot more out there, we have instructors and practitioners from many martial arts. If you think anything we do here is a stupid gamble then you are simply not seeing whats there.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 Your results are very impressive. So, how was your experience against Olympic medalists? I hope you had a chance to fence against sabre guys, not foil or epee - because your historical fencing compatible with sabre. If you did fence Olympic medalists, can you name them, just for my curiosity? And if you had a chance to see what is a high level fencing, do you agree that what is presented here is not? You constantly referring to tournaments results -
drysabre 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 But my point is that 1) Quality of fencing I see here is low. 2) European HEMAC Tournaments I watched on youtube as you suggested look to me like local unrated fencing events.
In my students alumni I have world class highest level fencers. I don't want to provide more details about myself for the privacy reason. So, to me, benchmarks are very high. In case you'll visit US, I'll be happy to meet you personally and we can continue our discussion.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre Well we will simply have to disagree there. I have fought great fencers and martial artists from much of the world. I have also frequently seen examples of people thinking certain fighters look crap on video when they then go to events and destroy the competition. Your comments couldn't be further from the reality of our findings when fighting top level fighters of all kinds. Please post videos of your fencing and we can atleast then get somewhere.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 My fencing is widely available - I am referring to Olympic fencing once again. Look at the sabre at Olympic games - both boys and girls and compare yourself. If you'll still think that video presented here is about fencers of the same caliber - we have nothing to discuss. Let's finish this conversation. Thank you.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre But this isn't sabre fencing, and as for our sabre fencing, I have fenced an olympic sabre medalist and beaten him over the space of many bouts. That also does not change the fact that 'sport' fencing will inevitably look different to a martial art, when the intentions are completely different for a start. I am stepping past one video and actually looking at the facts of the last few years of people I have met, fenced and watched.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 Tell me if you can compare Pozdniakov and Montana with your fellows. /watch?v=aLoHSvMJdXk&feature=related
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre Sorry but that fight does not impress me, it is nothing like a martial fight, no regard for their own lives at all, which is the huge difference between a martial art and a sport. The weapons are derived frome extremely light duelling sabres, nothing like the historical military weapon. From a martial artists perspective that was very poor, fighting like that gets both people killed.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 I am sorry too. You still don't get my point. I am pointing on a level of professionalism, and you're trying to explain that modern fencing is a sport, not a combat. But neither is what is presented on this video - they also don't care about their lives.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre Sorry but that simply isn't true. The attention to self preservation and limitation of double hits is highly important. As for professionalism, if you don't like our style I will not change your mind there, I can only assure you of its effectiveness. But this is a pointless argument as you are fixed in your point, our combat methods are proven against top fencers and fighters, as are our teaching methods. To continue a comparison against sport fencing is useless, they share little.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 Attention to self preservation is reflected in sabre and foil right of way rules. With all my respect to your dedication to historic fencing, I still see big difference in class between what you demonstrate and what even mediocre sabre fencer can do. As for your reference to proof of success - you didn't respond to my question: who of sport fencers you had a chance to beat. I am interested in sabre in particular.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre The right of way rules simply don't work though. The box decisions do not reflect a real outcome of a fight. Getting a hit a split second before you are struck is no good to anyone. You see a difference in class of what though? Sport fencers move differently because their ultimate goal is different. As for naming names, if you are so keen to keep anonymity you must have some comprehension of how ungentlemanly it would be to disclose information of others.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 You didn't respond to my invitation to the club. As for my anonymity, I am not asking you to disclose your real name, I am just asking who did you have a chance to fence and defeat (of course, sport fencers). Limbah? Pozdniakov? Montana? Yakimenko? Homer? Smart? Lopes? Pillet? Tarantino? I am just curious. I feel like our discussion moved toward wrong direction. And once again, do not explain the limitation of sport fencing - I know that most likely better than you.
drysabre 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nikos3000 You didn't respond to my invitation to the club. As for my anonymity, I am not asking you to disclose your real name, I am just asking who did you have a chance to fence and defeat (of course, sport fencers). Limbah? Pozdniakov? Montana? Yakimenko? Homer? Smart? Lopes? Pillet? Tarantino? I am just curious. I feel like our discussion moved toward wrong direction. And once again, do not explain the limitation of sport fencing - I know that most likely better than you.
drysabre 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 I am confused with your response - how do you interpret right of way rule?
drysabre 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 I am confused with your response - how do you interpret right of way rule?
drysabre 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nikos3000 As you wrote, the attention to self preservation and limitation of double hits is highly important - 100% agree with you . But how comes then one of the guys here all of sudden start running on his opponent without any preparation? From one of you older posts I understand that you're in US. If this is true, your are welcome to our club - we can continue our discussion. We are in NY area.
drysabre 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 And finally, let me comment one situation from this bout: Sabre guy (from the left attacks with advance-lunge and land his thrust right to his opponent chest - lethal hit in a real situation. Then sabre recovers from the lunge. While he recovers, poor two-handed sword guy is waking up an smack him to his head. As a countermeasure, sabre repeats his attack (remise), but he has enough time to parry swords guy dumb action. So, where here is self preservation concept?
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre That is the very point of martial fencing, you can very easily be struck after a strong thrust against your opponent, as has been proven countless times historically, the rapier struck safely, then defended the counter safely.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 Niko, while sport fencing is indeed very far from combat, this is not closer at all. And while sport fencing has a real benchmark - World Championship and Olympic Games, yours is limited by your inner circle. Once again, your are welcome to the club to have a personal discussion regarding differences.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre Sorry, but that simply isn't true on either account. But it is useless trying to explain as you have already decided your point. Neither am I limited to my inner circle, I regularly meet and train with fencers and martial artists from all around UK, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, the list goes on and on, high quality sport fencers and martial artists. The proof of our fencing is in our regular competition and sparring around the world.
Nikos3000 4 months ago
@Nikos3000 BTW, I have a friend in Ukraine, former sabre fencer and coach, who is involved in historical fencing - there is a group of very enthusiastic guys. If you want, I can help you to get in touch with them - it might bi interesting. Thank you.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre
Thirdly, the footwork presented is in no way, shape or form supposed to reflect Olympic fencing, which is a sport and nothing more, and does not cover two-handed weapons such as the longsword. Fourthly, I would advise you to research the various historical fight manuals before venturing to call this "stage fighting."
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 Allow me to disagree with you. First, instructor's titles doesn't change my opinion regarding their footwork profficiency. Loosing balance, dragging legs, reacting on feints by moving entire upper body...Is this all attribute of historical fencing? Attacking without any preparation... Ignoring distance... What is that , part of the real fencing strategy?
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre
I disagree with your disagreement. Whatever your opinion is on footwork, the instructor (Nick) has won the HEMAC European Rapier Competition in 2009 (there's a video somewhere on Youtube), so clearly this footwork is effective beyond your interpretation. I also believe you're viewing this fight incorrectly. When fighting with real weapons, half your defense is your opponent's sense of self-preservation, not proper form. So inevitably, mistakes and missteps are going to occur, regard-
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 I watched HEMAC videos on Youtube - and I can tell you that what I see here looks much better. HEMAC tournament is a real joke. To me it is a parody of sabre fencing. I think we had enough time spent on - discussion; after watching HEMAC I have complete understanding of what is your interpritation of historical fencing and I wish you the best of success in your fencing activity.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre
-less of the skill level of the fighters. In modern fencing, a fencer can be punished for "malicious" blows, which is something actual fighting rewards. Pommel blows, wrestling, half-swording; all are absent in sport fencing. You're incorrect on the manner of technique, as well. While many weapons carry over the same basic principles, the techniques and footwork used for a messer are vastly different for a rapier or smallsword.
Victory357 4 months ago
@drysabre
Lastly, while it's true that no one knows for certain how people fought and died before firearms ruled conflict, we (historical fencers) read the texts which the old fightmasters produced, and interpret them as best we can, then we go one further and modify, experiment, and even create new techniques and strategies, by no means is historical fencing a "dead-end."
Victory357 4 months ago
@Victory357 Thanks for your clarifications. I am not going to continue this discussion, but one thing is important to consider. What is presented in this video, is nothing else but another breed of sport fencing. If this will be a real fight, no one will run forward with closed eyes gambling more then fencing. Besides, I am pointing on concrete deficiencies of these gentlemen which are obvious to me, and you keep telling that each
drysabre 4 months ago
@Victory357 weapon has specific tactics and technique. Yes, you're absolutely right. Problem is that you have nothing to respond to my concrete comments; you just trying to convince me that modern fencing is something different from historic. My position regarding this video is that this is not an example of high level fencing skill - no matter what type of fencing to consider. And I was trying to give an advise on how to improve. Nothing else.
drysabre 4 months ago
@Victory357 Secondly, in modern fencing you CAN hit very hard. Different thing is that you shouldn't. FYI, just few decades ago, before introducing electrical scoring, sabre fencing was very contact sport. I had to see sabre guys in a locker room after tournament in a locker room. I saw, cause I am one of them. Thirdly, of course, of technique hardly depends on a weapon - this is an axiom.
drysabre 4 months ago
@Victory357 Furthermore, sport fencing uses strips, BTW, I already advised FIE officials to consider round or square court instead of strip. Hopefully, one day this will happen. And finally - I am not comparing apples and oranges here. What I am saying, that for my opinion, these guys, softly speaking, didn't impress me. I think I have rights to express my opinion, taking into consideration my 40 years fencing experience (yes, modern Olympic). Even if, as you say, they are professionals.
drysabre 4 months ago
first of all, great work!!! great music, great fencing. The spoilers are confusing the first time you watch the video, but really, it's better than saying what happened after the fact. This way, you know what to look for, instead of needing to rewind. Keep up the fantastic work! This is one of those videos I keep watching over and over again
FoolingWithFuhlen 4 months ago 3
anyone know the make of the rapier the one guy is using?
Grn077 5 months ago
@Grn077 It is by Vladimir Cervenka, a Czech supplier, cost about 700 euros and an 18 month waiting list. They look and feel fantastic, but the blade broke whilst flexing in a thrust 10 months after I recieved it, therefore I recommend you not use them for sparring. My recommendations are Hanwei Practical 43 for budget, Pavel Marek for the next price bracket, and Darkwood Armoury if you can afford them. I use a Darkwood as my principal but have all.
Nikos3000 5 months ago
wow that is so cool. i wanna get into this
halotango3 5 months ago
@halotango3 Thanks. There are groups all around the world and more starting all the time. There are also many larger weekend events in each country for those that cannot reach a club regularly.
Nikos3000 5 months ago
Great video and song to go with it, the two different styles made an impressive match. Sword fighing rules! The Spoilers are also a cool addition to the video; description to complement the demonstration.
CrimLawJim 6 months ago
It took me until 5mins in to realise that the text was spoiling what was happening next. I thought it was commenting on what I just saw, which would make more sense. :(
TheBraddigan 7 months ago
@TheBraddigan Sorry it didn't work for you. Can never fully please everyone with any format. I got a lot of requests to do it this way, more so than any other. The reason people like the text before hand is so that they know what to look for, rather than have the text after and then have to rewind to see it.
However, with the better cam and smoother slow motion, I have considered removing the text fuily from now on. Will keep experimenting until I find the system which pleases the most people.
Nikos3000 7 months ago
Really nice fight there. Both deadly weapons with a grace of their own.
KenoshiAkai 7 months ago
What is the make of longsword Mike is using here, i'm looking at getting one but don't really trust the threaded tangs all the companies seem to use on their swords nowadays.
Grommit8365 7 months ago
@Grommit8365 This is a Hanwei Tinker model. Initially we found them excellent, they handle really well, flex nicely and were a good deal. However, in the long run they didn't last, they broke on the tangs either at the shoulder or on the thread. I'd recommend either the Albion Meyer, which is what we now use, or get a Knightshop synthetic. There is also a new Hungarian range of training swords that have had very impressive results and only cost £150, he will be at Fightcamp this year too.
Nikos3000 7 months ago
Why not use the attack in the hands and forearms? This would give a chance to hold on to the distance (for rapier)...
911knife 7 months ago
You were right, this time, you guys were pretty even, and my compliments to Mike for his very creative use of the longsword.
5yve 7 months ago
and now... do it for real!
LMTR14 7 months ago
Hm...I expected to see more passing steps made by the longswordsman to close the distance. Is there something about the rapier fighter that made such a strategy inpractical, or was it more of just the preference of the other fighter?
SirKickz 7 months ago
@SirKickz Its through experience of facing rapiers before. Passing steps are where a longswordsmen is at his most vulverable when fighting a rapier, the power and leverage of a passing step is not needed to strike or displace a rapier, and it is far more beneficial to be able to keep the sword out front in order to engage the rapier, before he can then close. We have done this test against longswordsmen all around the world, and always found the same thing.
Nikos3000 7 months ago
@Nikos3000
Way cool. I thought it might be something like that, but I wanted to make sure. Is this a strategy that was learned from translated works of the old masters or something developed from experience? How did the old masters address the issue of facing an opponent with a significant advantage in reach, especially with the longsword?
SirKickz 7 months ago
@SirKickz Well theres nothing of note on how to use a longsword against a rapier. Mike does favour Meyer as a source, of which meyer likes quite pronounced guards with the right foot forward like that and the ability to cut in any direction with either foot forward. Typically the way of decribed of fighting longer weapons are to parry and grab (in the case of wood shafted weapons), or to bind and close the distance. The stance used here allows that best, as you don't need much power for that..
Nikos3000 7 months ago
@Nikos3000
That makes a lot of sense, and thanks for replying! I'm a novice martial artist still cutting my teeth, and I'm definitely looking into studying western martial arts (it's a challenge, though, since there aren't any chapters of wma groups in the city I live in). Having done some mixed weapon sparring, overcoming a reach disadvantage has always been a difficult thing for me, even though I often have an advantage in quickness. I've enjoyed all your videos, and I hope to see more!
SirKickz 7 months ago
MORE MIXED WEAPON SPARRING PLEASE!
kapteenijuhani 8 months ago
Good combat!!
Astreo8 8 months ago
Sucks to be the people playing badminton on the other side of the screen, their manhood must be shirnking by the second.
28daveslater 8 months ago 18
@28daveslater FYI This is a sport, MY FAVORITE SPORT! PHA,ZA!
chaoswyvern17 5 months ago
kill bill!
ZorrisPorris 9 months ago
I have trained with the longsword for a short while and fought against my friend, who fights with a rapier. I realize how how hard it must have been for Mike, since a rapier is longer and lighter.
SanderCohensPocket0 9 months ago
essentially, they would both die, because the rapier would unavoidably get a stab due to its speed, but the longsword can't be stopped by the rapier and it would fuck up the rapier man.
mrfrankincense 9 months ago
@mrfrankincense constant eating of burger king and mc donalds would fuck you up.
runhorun 9 months ago
Rapier is clearly easier to control and manoeuvre but the longsword seems more powerful and effective at getting right up in your opponent's face
callumAS 9 months ago
Comment removed
alex7h0r 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nikos3000 Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
jamey1138 10 months ago
Great video. How would armor change this duel, realistically.
sabresandiego 11 months ago
@sabresandiego It would change the fight a fair amount. BUT, the chances of them meeting historically in armour would be very slim, seeing as the rapier is a weapon for civilian use (self defence, civil dispute, duelling), so neither party is ever likely to wear armour in this fight.
Nikos3000 11 months ago
@Nikos3000 How do you theorize the fight would go if armor was involved? Would you be able to charge at your opponent and tackle him, or is there still fear of a slashing or piercing wound? It appears the longer the weapon is the better it is at unarmored combat (polearms best, then rapier/sabre, then longsword, then shortsword) however with armor I am guessing hypothetically something like a halberd would be best, and if you miss you want to tackle your opponent and grapple with a dagger.
sabresandiego 11 months ago
@sabresandiego It is a hugely complex issue. Typically the longer more nimble weapons are better suited to unarmed combat, when terrain is not a concern. A fight with armour is typically handled very differently, depending on how much armour is worn as well. There is certainly a lot of wrestling and grappling in armoured combat.
Nikos3000 11 months ago
@Nikos3000 Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
jamey1138 10 months ago
Meaning no offense to Mike, what I really saw is not that the longer weapon was superior, but that Nick was better-practiced at his art than Mike was. Mike did little to control measure or initiative, laying consistently in the nach, seldom followed up on bindung, and relied far heavily on simple parries with no follow-up, which Meyer specifically advises against.
As a longsword-player in a town full of Fabris guys, I *know* it's hard to pull off-- Keep at it, Mike! Take the vor!
jamey1138 10 months ago
@jamey1138 Certainly not a case of practice, we are of equal skill in swordsmanship. I have fought top level longsword fencers all around the world with rapier, and they all start trying to work in the vor and take the initiative, and all come undone. The reality is that certain rules of swordmanship change when facing a different style of weapon. Fighting a longsword with a rapier is an incredably difficult thing, and I have yet to find anyone better than Mike at doing it.
Nikos3000 10 months ago
@Nikos3000 I didn't say you're a better swordsman than Mike-- I said you were better at Capo Ferro than he was at Meyer, in those particular passes: you controlled measure (CF's strength) and he didn't bind (Meyer's strength). As I said, I know it's hard to apply longsword against rapier (I do it a lot, against Fabris students studying with Tom Leoni). Consider working from Meyer's Rappier section for a while-- it specifically addresses "Fremde Leute" who are emphasizing thrusts!
jamey1138 10 months ago
@Nikos3000 It kind of makes wonder how many fights ended with both swordsmen killing each other.
LexPhilogus 10 months ago
@LexPhilogus We have a lot of coroners reports and other historical documents to give us a good idea on this. There are certainly many examples of it happening, but perhaps what is more common is where both parties are hit, one dies and one survives. There are plenty of wounds you can take with a sword which would not be fatal.
Nikos3000 10 months ago
Nice job Nikkos3000. I like the video a lot. Been a swordsman myself for 8 years and always wondered how this would turn out
Kurogasa55 1 year ago
@Kurogasa55 Thanks. This is one possibility. Mike, the longswordsman, had greater knowledge and experience of the rapier than most longsword fencers do, so he has already begun to adapt to tackle the rapier in this video, most longsword fencers using more passing steps, more withdrawn guards and heavier cuts, usually resulting in being hit more.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
@Nikos3000 i must say although i loved the action, i did get confused with the names, as to who was going to do what, in your annotations, perhaps next time it may be better to use the weapons name rather than the person wielding it ... ie. the longsword parries the rapier ...
shadow4u2find 1 year ago
@shadow4u2find Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it! As for the naming, I have never done it by weapon type simply because most of our videos have the fighters using the same weapon types! Definately with these mismatched it is something I will consider for future vids, thanks.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
@Nikos3000 Where could someone who is interested in learning this type of sword practice pick up a reliable sword like the ones in this video
sjmorreale26 1 year ago
@sjmorreale26 Best advice is if you want a rapier, get a Hanwei 43" Practical Rapier, available all around the world from lots of suppliers, just do a seach. If you want something really good, go to Darkwood Armory (US).
For longswords, best budget option is to get a Knight Shop synthetic training sword. There aren't many steel swords we find safe enough or durable enough, best is the Albion Meyer. The Hanwei practical hand and a half is a good start and cheap.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
Great to see the two different swords/styles up against each other. I noticed several strikes at Nick's hand that looked like they were stopped by the rapier's additional hand guards. It makes a very good argument for complex hilts. (plus, I think they're pretty)
JohnRaptor 1 year ago
@JohnRaptor Thanks. It is not so much that the strikes are aimed at the hand, though some will be, it is more that the complex hilt allows me to fight with a pronounced guard due to the defence, and arc of defence that it offers.
I agree, complex hilts certainly look great.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
@SethMan91 A result of modifications to fighting style required to face the rapier. Any longswordsman who has faced a good rapier fencer will find likewise. I have now used rapiers against an assortment of top instructors around Europe. The reality is you have to adapt your fight to suit the opponent, whatever they have.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
Where do y'all purchase your equipment and more specifically the longsword that was used in this? Thanks.
Ronnock 1 year ago
Wow, that was great!
333mojo333 1 year ago
Nice moves and that's a beautiful rapier. Wish I could have one. I use to fance myself.
6shotJack 1 year ago
@6shotJack Thanks, that was sadly the most expensive training rapier I ever bought, and it snapped after ten months! My preferenace is for Darkwood Armoury (US) rapiers, intermediate prices, excellent quality, build, handling and service.
There are some decent rapiers about for a good price though if you wanted one, like Hanwei products, which many of our members use.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
A truly great vid, slow motion, explanations, and most importantly: a great fight! The fast one-hand rapier must be very difficult to counter due to it's reach, but the longswordwielder did a great job standing his ground! That's how it should look into movies; uncertain denouement rather than choerography :-)
Railriderchris 1 year ago
This video is what convinced me to take the plunge into fencing.
Barrakketh 1 year ago
@Barrakketh Thanks a lot for your comment, thats a massive compliment and I wish you every success with your fencing.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
Comment removed
WoodCutKing 1 year ago
the music works
gameboy281 1 year ago
Nikos, I know Meyer has some techniques on single hand sword vs pole arm, but are there any sources for longsword vs rapier?
rapierlynx 1 year ago
@rapierlynx There are a few small references in things like Swetnams manual, but its very minor, in essence no, there aren't. There are of course plenty of historical accounts of the weapons meeting, and can therefore assume the participants went into the fight with the knowledge of their own weapon, and perhaps the enemies, and simply adapted to survive.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
The guy with the long sword is playing the rapier game.
MrNicefash 1 year ago
me and my saber buddies do this after practice all the time hahah
woohoo4576 1 year ago
these guys are both very good. very quick reflexes. the longswords blade looks a little short in this video though. where did you get these training weapons? it would also counter the rapier a bit better with a more complex guard, something with a ring on it would've deflected many of the rapier stabs that went through. anyway, good vid.
truemonster1 1 year ago
@truemonster1 Thanks. The longsword is a Hanwei Tinker, both weapons here are marginally shorter than average for their period, which isn't to say they are inccurate, but we like to use a variety of weapons in terms of proportions.
I complex hilt would indeed help, but we were simply using the stereotypical weapons for this fight to display in many respects how a fight can play out with mixed weapons such as these.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
@Nikos3000 yeah, i didnt mean to sound critical or negative. i enjoyed the vid as well as some of your others. i wish there was a group in my area that did this and that didnt conflict with my work schedule so much.
truemonster1 1 year ago
@truemonster1 Yeh I know, I was purely giving a bit more info. The reality is if you don't have a group nearby you simply have to start one, most instructors of HEMA have started that way, ground up, get a study group of friends together and basic kit, get some manuals or modern interpretations and start developing your technique, and get to national events when you can for instruction by mroe experienced coaches.
Nikos3000 1 year ago
@Nikos3000 i meant a group willing to mix weapon types, that lookked really fun. of course i have very little formal weapons training, but i do like to spar with friends, only problem with that is my friends are too tentative and fearful. whereas i look at it like training for a fight. i have fun, but i go fast and i attack when i see an opening. i try to make it realistic and i dont use things that are impractical. oh well. i wish i could find some folks to spar with. where are you guys?
truemonster1 1 year ago