This is a very nice performance. Its too bad that some people use these comment fields as if it was their own personal chatroom, when they want to argue with someone they should take it someplace else. These comment fields are meant for comments about the video, not for off-subject arguments.
I can't find anything quite like what we used to do. It makes me wonder what I had was so rare. This video here is beautiful and these people are really cool.
The only thing I hate about all this are those "BLACK HATS". Why don't they start wearing Kippa? There is nothing Semitic about those black hats. THEY ARE NOT IN EUROPE ANYMORE.
@ForgottenEasternJews - They where Kippah under the hat. It is showing greater respect to cover your head twice - like on Shabbas day when you where a Tallit over your Kippah. Since we don't where a Tallit on the street, a hat is used. The specific hat is usually associated to the decree of a great Rebbe.
@Lagolop No I don't hate yiddish or anyone. But all i think is those hats and yiddish (which has german in it), suits well for jews in that area (ashkanaz) but in Israel it is good to have Semitic/mid east culture. '
That's fine but one cannot deny one's roots. The Ashkenazi culture and tradition is very old. As for Yiddish, language defines a people to a great extent. Yiddish is one of the oldest Germanic tongues on the planet. It is based on Medieval High German and is similar to Swiss and Austrian German BUT like those, it too is a distinct language and the mother tongue of the Ashkenazi Jews. Just a fact. Yiddish iz zeyer interesant.
@Lagolop I'm not denying one's roots. I just said I think it's not appropriate to wear European hats or speak yiddish in a country like Israel. Though many chasidic Jews do. Now a days even the Mizrahi Jews in Israel have started to wear those hats. My question to them (mizrahi Jews) is why do you want to wear the hats that is European in nature and doesn't have anything to do with Semitism. Why do you want to lose your middle eastern identity? That's it. That's what I'm worried about.
"not appropriate to wear European hats or speak yiddish in a country like Israel."
Why not, if that is what they want to do? Chasidism is a tradition and is not exclusively for European Jews so why can't a Mizrahi practice that form of Judaism and adopt the traditions?
As for Yiddish, I think it should have been made an official language in Israel. It almost became the official language in the beginning.
@Lagolop And why do you think Yiddish should have been the official language when it's a European mixed language with little Hebrew??? What about considering the choice of Mizrahi Jews? It's really great that Ben Gurion chose Hebrew. When you are talking about "All Jews are equal" then you cannot impose a European mixed language on the people of Israel who were 70% Mizrahi until 1990. You cannot say me I'm hung up with Semitic and at the same time try to impose European culture.That's hypocrisy
I think Yiddish should have been ONE of the official languages, surely that over arabic! I think Yiddish is a part of Jewish culture and tradition. I think it was a good idea that at least a modern form of Hebrew was chosen as a sort of common medium; that was wise. Jews returning to the homeland spoke a myriad of languages so Isreal needed one in common to all Jews.
I said Jews are Jews, not that Jews are equal. Nobody is imposing anything on anyone. Are you forced?
@ForgottenEasternJews It's bad enough that Hebrew is invariably pronounced like a Germanic language which causes several weighty problems (e.g spelling mistakes and a steeper learning curve) rather than a Semitic one due to overwhelming Ashkenazic influence, and the non-Ashkenazics were kept at a distance from the goodies through the semi-official use of Yiddish in the State's first 2 decades or so as a sort of "Our Guys'" tongue.
@Lagolop And I understand why the Jews in Europe wore those hats and spoke Yiddish. They adapted to the environment around them. But when they come to Israel, do you think they should still speak Yiddish and wear those hats? And by the way, I hear some people say I don't like ashkanazi. That's not true. I live in US and here mostly there are ashkanazi Jews and I go to a ashkanazi synagogue. But at the same time I maintain Mizrahi Jewish culture which to me looks genuinely Semitic.
You know something, u r hung up on semitic. Not all Mizrahi Jews are actually semitic; some are from the Caucuses like Georgia, some are really from Spain.
As for Yiddish, you are aware that while it is a German language, it contains some Hebrew words and was traditionally written in Hebrew script? Hebrew was not spoken by Ashkenazim except in prayer because it was considered a holy language.
Bottom line; Jews are Jews, no matter how they look or speak.
@Lagolop Yes I'm hung up on Semitic because i'm Semitic :) And I'm so proud of it!!!! By the way there are only a very few Georgian Jews. Most of them have Mizrahi culture as they boarder middle east. With regards to Spain, during the golden age of Moorish rule, many Jews migrated to Spain from N Africa during this time. Jews travelling back and forth during this time. That's why Sephardic Jews from Spain had middle eastern culture. For example Rambam was a Mizrahi Jew who later died in Egypt.
Nothing wrong with being Mizrahi, and I'm glad you are proud of it. I think there may have been some friction between Mizrahim and Ashkenazim in the past but I think it was because the cultures were so different. I hear that is not the case anymore and there ia a lot of mixing and marriages between them. Like I said, at the end of the day ... Jews are Jews. Under the exterior, all the same ppl.
Not to worry, I respect all cultures, Jewish or otherwise. There is only one CULTure on this planet that I do not respect. Any culture that is cruel and violent gets no respect from me. There is one that comes to mind.
"תודה רבה" ?
Sorry, I don't understand Hebrew. Can you translate it?
@Lagolop Several extant Germanic tongues preceded Yiddish.Icelandic for 1 even remained less changed by other languages' influence and natural development. And with all due respect to Ashkenazi tradition &culture, it's by far not the oldest within Judaism. Take it from someone who regards himself a "former Ashkenazi": the deepest roots of Jews hailing from central &Eastern Europe are in Eres Yisra'el. Why posit Yiddish should've been one of the official languages but not Ladino?
I never wrote that Yiddish is THE oldest Germanic tongue. I may have said it is ONE OF THE OLDEST GERMANIC tongues and I am not incorrect. I never said Yiddish is the oldest Jewish languages; that would be Aramaic and old Hebrew. Neither did I say that Ashkenazim weren't ORIGINALLY from Israel. ALL Jews (unless total converts) have genomes indicating ancient Levantine ancestry i.e. ISRAEL.
There were few Ladino speaking Jews returning to Israel. The topic was Yiddish, not Ladino.
@Lagolop You were sort of advocating for Yiddish as an official language of Israel, so others have every right to broaden "the topic" to include other Jewish languages in the comments.
My point at any rate was that there was no justification for making Yiddish an official Israeli language, regardless of how much you prefer it had happened.
PS Zvi, not ONLY those with with haplogroup J genomes, ethnic Jews ; )
Others are too. And the way I look at it, Jews are Jews regardless of origins. All are equally Jewish even though some do not have a drop of Levantine blood in them (and of course that includes ANY converts). You can be Jewish by ethnicity and/or religion.
@Lagolop While I hold that a Jewish people and nation exist, I don't believe a Jewish ethnicity does any more -- not after the period it went extinct, sometime between 636 and 1100 in Eres Yisra'el. Even there (here) the local Jewish ethnicity since that period has been an admixture of Jewish cultures influences formed mostly abroad.
Everywhere you go worldwide, the question is which Jewish ethnicity a Jew traces from - even though we're all nationally & religiously bonded.
@Lagolop Sir, you didn't know what "Todah rabba" meant in Hebrew letters (when you spoke to an Oriental Jew), so please don't expect me as a non-Ashkenazi to acknowledge the word "Yidden".
At any rate I'll address this issue in my following comment.
@Lagolop Some converts do in fact have "Levantine blood" in them, namely those who live or trace back to the Middle East or are even descended from Jews who were forcefully, or voluntarily converted to Islam or Xtianity.
Other than these facts I agree with your statements. We'll all do best if we leave the claims of "genetically Jewish" to the racist amongst the gentiles (and I'm not implying you were in favor of this construct).
I do realize that there are ppl in the ME that WERE practitioners of Judaism, and part of the nation of Israel prior to being forced to accept Christianity and even worse, islam :(
But Jewish (as an ethnicity) does exist. If not, then how does one explain ATHEISTS that happen to also be Jewish?
@Lagolop Who was talking about converts away from Judaism???!! U seem to be making strawmen remarks to rebut statements I didn't make...
I don't think converting out to Islam is worse than accepting Xtianity. My 2 cents in any event.
Athiests can be Jewish since Judaism is a combination of religion and nationality. In other words it's both a nation & religion, even as some highly religious Jews don't recognize the national component. But I don't see a particular Jewish ethnicity in existence.
@Lagolop I stand by my earlier comments wherein I disagree with you. The days when the Jewish people had thier one and only unique ethnicity are gone since yonder. If anything, history and archaeology reflect this extinct ethnicity and not vise versa. We're not like the Faroese or Icelanders.
Anyway, you may have the last word if you wish, but I'm totally disengaging from this exchange.
@Lagolop You are confusing ethnicity with race. Its the most common confusion people make. Ethnicity means culture, the common way of life, religion etc among a group of people. But race has to do with genetics and DNA. You can change your ethnicity but you cannot change your race. For example, people in middle east have different ethnicity, but they have a common base DNA which is found mainly among middle eastern population. I guess you get the difference now.
I certainly am not confused ethnicity vs race. Comment was more to piss of the fucking 'black izraelites', who attempt to steal Jewish identity, origins, history etc by claiming the original Jews were negroes. As a corollary; that all white Jews are 'fake'.
U r correct that ethnicity is based on many things such as culture & language. One can become a member of an ethnicity by joining that culture, regardless of race. But, genetic commonality is another factor.
BOOBtube strikes again. I sent a message to answer ur comment 2 me.
Basically I did not say that Yiddish is THE oldest Germanic tongue, I may have said 1 of the oldest. That is not bullshit. As for culture, I know very well that the Ashkenazi culture is not the oldest.
I did not posit that Ladino be official cuz there were not many Ladino speakers returning to Israel at the time. I was discussing Yiddish, nothing else. It was not to lessen the value of Ladino or Sephardic traditions.
@Lagolop Well the so called Sephardic Jews are actually mostly Mizrahi Jews. About 80% of the Sephardic Jews have nothing to do with Spain and are not Spanish. 2000 yrs ago there were about 50,000 Jews in Spain. In later centuries many Jews migrated from N Africa to southern Spain especially during the Golden era. They stayed there for more than 500 yrs and returned to where they once came from; that is N Africa and Middle east. So, Ladino is not Semitic just like Yiddish.
Absolutely. Ladino is based on Medieval Castilian and Yiddish is based on Medieval High German. However, both have some semitic elements i.e. Hebrew and Aramaic borrow words. I cannot speak much about Ladino but I know that Yiddish also contains some Slavic elements incorporated when some of the Jewish people migrated out of Western Europe and into Slavic regions.
Anyone with a brain knows that the Jewish nation began in the Levant. A nation made up of tribes of Caucasian (as in white race) Middle Eastern people.
There are freaks out there like the "black israelites" that are trying to steal the identity of Jewish people with all manner of lies. Those people are looking for a prouder history than slavery so they try to tell people that the "real" Jews were black. Ridiculous!
@Lagolop aww those black israelites are full of crap. I have argued with them many times. They are nothing but a bunch of black racists. They are the black KKK.
I'm a Mizrahi Jew. I'm light brown in color. But I'm not a white european person. The problem with black racists is they see white european ashkanazi Jews in America and think that the entire Jewish people are fake. They don't know that even ashkanazi Jews did not look the same about 100 or 300 years ago in Europe. They looked semetic
"white" is just a euphemism for Caucasian race. Doesn't mean that Caucasians r literally lily white skinned, not all r. And not only Europeans are white for Pete sake.
Ashkenazic phenotypes r manifestations of family genetics, environment & admixture. Jews have lived in Europe since 600 BC, their phenotypes will reflect that. Look at some Medieval portraits of Euro Jews & they are often blond, fair & blue eyed (and some are darker). But ancient genomes indicate Levantine origins.
@Lagolop Agree with most of what you say. Just one correction. Jews have history in Europe since 63 BCE not 600 BC. Some say that Jews have history in Spain (which is in Europe) since Soloman's time. But there is no evidence. They found Phoenician pottery with semitic writings in Spain which was due to trade. But no evidence of Jewish settlement in those times. Also, though the Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 yrs, the majority of Jews lived in middle east and north africa
When was the first temple destroyed? That was when they moved into other regions including Europe. The point I was making is that they have been Europeans fro a long long time. In fact, most Jews of Ashkenazi heritage have been in Germany longer than most "Germans". They were in the Rhine long before there was such as thing as Germany", same for Switzerland, France, Austria etc.
BTW, recently in Mains (Germany) a mikva dated to 100 BC was discovered.
@Lagolop Like i said earlier, the further you go back in time, the more semitic the Jews looked in Europe. Medieval portraits don't give you the exact color of people. The artists in europe painted Jesus, Moses, Abraham and others as white caucasians with blonde hair and blue eyes too. I have seen many real pictures of jews in europe about 100 or 150 years ago. Some of them looked Semitic. In one picture, half the students in a school have middle eastern looks. Also they wore ME hats.
"The artists in europe painted Jesus, Moses, Abraham and others as white caucasians with blonde hair and blue eyes "
Of course they did cuz they DID NOT see the original dudes. OTOH, Medieval Jews were painted from actual Jewish ppl living at the time in Europe.
LOL, what does 100 years ago have to do with anything at all. As if there has been some dramatic change in Jewish phenotypes only in recent history. I know more blond haired, blue eyed fair Jews than I ME looking ones.
@Lagolop 100 , 150, 300 or 500 years has a lot to do with the change in ashkanazi Jewish DNA. You must remember that though Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 yrs, the Jewish population and culture did not flourish for about 1000 yrs. Though many ashkanazi Jews have middle eastern DNA, they have been mixed very much with the white europeans. Thus how you get the white Jews. Exactly like the black Ethiopian Jews who have Afro-middle eastern DNA.
Ethiopian Jews do not have the same genetics apparently. Mostly they are from pure converts. That does not mean they are not as Jewish in the religious sense.
Ur hung up on the term "WHITE". I told u it's just a reference to the Caucasian race. There r only 4 pure races to choose from. Where do U think most Jews belong; Australoid, Mongoloid, Negroid or CAUCASIAN? Just because some r less than lily white doesn't mean they r not "white". Very few Caucasians r fair skinned.
@Lagolop "Where do U think most Jews belong; Australoid, Mongoloid, Negroid or CAUCASIAN? "
LOL. So do you think I'm white Caucasian? NO. I live in America. I go to ashakanazi synagogue. You can easily differentiate ME from ALL other ashakanazi Jews here. I'M NOT SAYING ALL ASHKANAZI JEWS LOOK THE SAME. SOME ARE LIKE WHITE AMERICANS AND SOME A LITTLE BIT DARKER(VERY FEW). BUT MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY WHITE.
I have no idea whatsoever which race you are nor do I know what you look like, nor do I really care. You have said nothing that I have not said and I am not disputing this with you. So you're dark skinned and attend an Ashkenazi shul. You seem to disapprove of Ashkenazi, then why associate with them?
What race are YOU? Fill me in, educate me. IF not Caucasian, what then ...
Does it disturb you to see all these "European" looking Jews? Are they less Jewish than you? If you are in fact Jewish, then you carry the same ancient genomes. Why do you want to separate Yidden? They should stay united. Division is for the enemy. It makes the enemy weak & pathetic scum that they r despite their great numbers. The Jews have stayed united & THAT is a strength. I suggest u look for similarities, not differences in religious tradition or outward appearances.
@Lagolop I never said of dividing anyone. We were talking about history and genetics and I was giving you the facts. I was just saying what history and genetic research says. I was not making up stuff to divide among ourselves. We all are Jews. Mizrahi, Ashkanazi, more Semitic, less Semitic whatever. We are Jews.
@Lagolop I AGREE PEOPLE IN MIDDLE EAST ARE LUMPED INTO CAUCASIAN GROUPS. THOUGH SYRAINS, KURDS, IRANIANS, LEBANESE AND OTHERS FROM NORTHERN MIDDLE EAST ARE LIGHT SKINNED, BUT THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE EUROPEAN WHITES. IF JEWS WERE WHITE CAUCASIANS THEN THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN RACIALLY DISCRIMINATED FOR CENTURIES IN EUROPE. THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN HOLOCAUST. WHY WOULD NAZI RACISTS DRAW JEWS AS DARK SKIN AND MIDDLE EASTERN LOOKING.
"IF JEWS WERE WHITE CAUCASIANS THEN THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN RACIALLY DISCRIMINATED FOR CENTURIES IN EUROPE"
R u kidding me! They were discriminated on based on RELIGION. Why were they forced to wear special Jew hats & other garb? It was to distinguish them from their Christian neighbors!
Nazi depictions of Jews were to vilify them. I often shake my heard when I see pictures of the little blond Jewish kids in the camps. They were more "nordic" than the nazis. Ironic.
@Lagolop ok. So you mean to say the discrimination was only religious. The Nazis hated Jews only because of their beliefs. And the Jews in Europe looked white with blonde hair the moment they landed in Europe? LOL NO.
That blonde kid and woman you are talking about is obviously a child of a convert or mixed race. You don't need a genius to figure that out. Many Europeans have felt sympathy towards the Jews over the centuries. Many have converted or have inter racially married
We do not know "obviously" anything about her. Never assume. No I never suggested the first immigrants to Europe looked like Europeans. Neither did I suggest they looked like negroes. I think they likely looked Levantine. Some experts suggest the closest relations to the original Jews are the Kurds so I suspect that the original Jews may have looked similar.
WTF, most Europeans over the centuries have felt nothing but animosoty toward Jews as "Christ killers", not "sympathy".
@Lagolop ok have you heard of the term "YOU LOOK JEWISH"? I have heard that a lot. Its because Jews looked different than Europeans. Jews were forced to wear the star of david mainly because they were mixed and hard to find who was who and also to humiliate the Jews even if they looked different than the Europeans.
LOL, the same "Jewish look" can be applied to Italians and Greeks, SPanish, Romanians etc. Truth is, MOST Jews do not look so stereotypic. People don;' consider the ones that do NOT look "Jewish". If they only knew how many Jews live on this planet that they pass on the street but never give a thought that they are Jewish, and conversely how many NON Jews there are that ppl assume ARE Jewish based on a look. I told you, it's dangerous to assume.
@Lagolop Yes, some Italians and Greeks (southern part) look meditarrenean or middle eastern because of their location. My point is original Jews are not white people. White ashkanazi Jews are a mix of middle eastern and european people. Even DNA tests prove that. ONLY environmental conditions will not change the race of a people in 1000 or 2000 yrs. It would take thousands of years for Jews to get white, blonde and blue eyes unless you get married to white Europeans.
The original JEWS WERE WHITE (as in Caucasian). Maybe not lily white like Swedes, nonetheless white. What would you call them; negroes? They sure as hell were not Mongoloid or Australoid. You have nothing left but WHITE, period. Deal with it. There is even archaeological evidence that they were often fair skinned & red heads with blue eyes. And that was BEFORE they ever were in touch with Europeans.
@Lagolop You want to know my race. I already told you that I'm a Mizrahi Jew of middle eastern descent. Just in case you want to know more about the Jews of middle east, here you go:
The religion of Israelites later known as Judaism was born in middle east. Abraham was born in UR (iraq) and traveled to the promised land. Everything from the birth of Judaism till the writing of Talmud and the great Jewish scholars were all from middle east. And I'm proud to be a part of it.I guess that explains
U still have not told me your race. You said you were a Mizrahi of ME descent, but I want to know if you are Caucasian, Mongoloid, Australoid or Negroid. It's as if you told me you are of the European race; there is no such "race".
The ppl from UR were likely the same ethnicity as the present Kurds. Another connection perhaps between Jews and Kurds today.
@Lagolop "U still have not told me your race. You said you were a Mizrahi of ME descent, but I want to know if you are Caucasian, Mongoloid, Australoid or Negroid"
I'm Semitic. If you know what that means. Middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians especially here in US because of grouping purposes. It does not we we are genetically or physically similar to the nordic white europeans. Semitic Jews have a different DNA than the europeans.
"I'm Semitic. If you know what that means. Middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians especially here in US because of grouping purposes. "
I believe we are making a modicum of progress :) Yes u may be semitic (which in reality is a linguistic term), but I will let you have that one. Being "Semitic" is more akin to being Scandinavian, it is NOT a race. Both "Semites" and Scandinavians are Caucasoid.
I would refer to you as a Levantine Jew who speaks a semitic language.
@Lagolop " Being "Semitic" is more akin to being Scandinavian, it is NOT a race. Both "Semites" and Scandinavians are Caucasoid" WELL IF CAUCASIAN IS NOT A RACE THEN WHAT THE HELL IS IT. OF COURSE IT IS A RACE. THE GROUPING GOES LIKE THIS CAUCASIAN ASIAN HISPANIC (NON WHITE) AFRICAN AMERICAN NATIVE AMERICAN PACIFIC ISLANDER ETC..... SO YES CAUCASIAN IS A RACE-RELATED GROUPING. AND ERRONEOUSLY EVEN THE MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE ARE GROUPED TOGETHER.
@Lagolop Grouping doesn't make a damn difference. Does it? If Semitic and Europeans are all same then there never would have been racial discrimination for centuries. YOU SAID THE DISCRIMINATION WAS RELIGIOUS NOT RACIAL. NO. YOU ARE SO WRONG. IT WAS BOTH. THEN WHY WOULD HITLER CALL JEWS AS SUB HUMANS. THROUGHOUT HISTORY IN EUROPE, PEOPLE HAVE CONSIDERED JEWS AS A DISTINCT RACIAL GROUP. IN MID 1800s, JEWS IN EUROPE WERE GIVEN THE NAME "SEMITIC" TRACING THEIR RACE BACK TO MIDDLE EAST.
The term "semitic" in reference to Jews was coined by a German with an inferiority complex manifested as a superiority complex. That is usually the case; both are the same thing really.
Anyway, this German dude was trying to isolate the Jews and to make them hated all the more. How many Jews do you know that look like the horrible drawing of WWII? Not many right?
The thing is, this idiot was not using a racial term, he was using a linguistic one ...LOL.
@Lagolop Ok. So do you believe the the term "semitic" should not have been used? Don't you think that the Jews in Europe were Semitic??? The person who tossed this name may have had a different intention. But Jews are Semitic right? My whole point is, Jews in Europe were once as Semitic as the middle eastern Jews when they landed their foot in Europe. But not anymore. Today's they are a mixed race with white europeans.
U use the term semitic as an ethnic one when it is a linguistic one. Levantine and arabs and Lebanese and Syrians and Iraqis etc ALL use semitic tongues but they are different people, both culturally and ethnically.
All are Caucasian RACIALLY, even dark skinned arabs (exceeding "negroid" arabs).
@Lagolop "Anyway, this German dude was trying to isolate the Jews and to make them hated all the more."
Jews were a unique and different people in Europe. Everyone knows that. Even the Jews lived in their closed communities for a while. They were discriminated both religiously and racially. Over the centuries they got inter racially married to whites. But to this day, they are seen different even if they are 80% or 90% white.
@Lagolop By the way, I don't know where this whole conversation is going????? Your argument was Jews have been white, blonde and blue eyes from the beginning. You said the Jews/Semitic people/ middle eastern people Caucasians.
My point is, Jews have not been white, blonde and blue eyes from the beginning. Jews are Semitic people and they have been racially discriminated throughout history. Even till the time of Hitler. Yes, middle eastern people are grouped as "Caucasians" ONLY on paper.
"You said the Jews/Semitic people/ middle eastern people Caucasians."
Yes, they all were Caucasian, originally. Not all light skinned but all nonetheless racially classified as Caucasian.
As for fair NON EUROPEANS, they existed long ago & still do, even with no Euro admixture. Not as common but it did exist. As stated before, in the case of Jews, they were often described as red headed & fair.
Now the ME is filled with ppl of all races just as all other places on this planet.
@Lagolop "As stated before, in the case of Jews, they were often described as red headed & fair."
God! LOL Give me a break. I don't know where you are getting all this information from. "RED HEADED AND FAIR". LOL Just because you are white european, you are grouping most Jews as Red head, white and fair skinned. NO. There are about 4.5 Million Mizrahi Jews out of 13 Million Jews. And 99% of the Mizrahi Jews are NOT red headed, blonde or white. Yes they are light colored but NOT like you say.
@Lagolop Its very clear from the conversions that I know more about the Jewish race than you know. You are taking the grouping concept which you find only on paper and saying that brown, light brown and white are ALL SAME RACE. NO THEY ARE NOT. The term CAUCASIAN is only used from grouping especially here in US for jobs, census etc. The white Caucasian Europeans and middle eastern people are GENETICALLY AND PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT. I REPEAT, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT DNA STRUCTURE.
@Lagolop "Now the ME is filled with ppl of all races just as all other places on this planet."
LOL YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. FIRST YOU SAID ALL MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE ARE CAUCASIAN RACE. YOU ARE NOW SAYING MIDDLE EAST IS FILLED WITH ALL RACES. NEXT TIME PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND BEFORE YOU ARGUE. YOU ARE LIKE THOSE BLACK ISRAELITIES OR THOSE ARABS WHO ARE FILLED WITH HATE BUT HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE.
"YOU ARE NOW SAYING MIDDLE EAST IS FILLED WITH ALL RACES."
You need to read my post again, I did NOT say that. I said the ORIGINAL Levantines were Caucasian. I went on to say that as with all over the planet, the ME is now populated by all races of ppl. Just as in North America.
"Yes, middle eastern people are grouped as "Caucasians" ONLY on paper."
What the hell is that supposed to mean? It is fact, with or without paper.
Jews in Europe suffered religious persecution, not racial. I told you they were forced to wear specific clothing and symbols to distinguish them from their Christian neighbours. Jew hats, Jew badges (the most infamous being the yellow star). If they looked so different, why bother? A fashion statement?
@Lagolop "Jews in Europe suffered religious persecution, not racial."
EVEN HITLER WOULD LAUGH AT YOU. YOUR WHOLE IDEA HAS BEEN TO PROVE THAT JEWS ARE WHITE CAUCASIAN AND THERE WAS NO RACIAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A JEW AND THE EUROPEANS. HOW DUMB CAN A HUMAN BEING CAN GET. YOU ARE EITHER IGNORANT OR YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST WHO FINDS COMFORT IN PORTRAYING JEWS AS WHITE SO YOU COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEM. SO PATHETIC
You know what; I have not used any epithet towards you in any posts but you continually hurl insults at me. I think you have a chip on y our shoulder.
Why would I feel "good" about white Jews? I am just stating facts. It is YOU that feels BAD about fair skinned Jews.
YOU are the racist! SHITler and his minions scape goated the Jews with bullshit propaganda about racial impurity or inferiority. I find that ironic since most of the greatest "Aryan" minds were of the German Jews. Does Einstein ring a bell? Of course you may not approve of him since he was an Ashkenazi. Are you sucked into Nazi propoganda?
You are one lousy excuse for a Jew (if you are one at all).
I'm not but you are sucked into that Nazi shit. YOU LIKE JEWS ONLY BECAUSE YOU THINK JEWS ARE WHITE SKIN WITH BLUE EYES, BLONDE HAIR AND RED HAIR. SINCE OUR CONVERSATION STARTED YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATING THAT 1000 TIMES. YOU ARE JUST NOT READY TO ACCEPT THAT JEWS ARE BROWN OR LIGHT BROWN SKIN LIKE THE MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE. THIS IS IRONIC GIVEN THE FACT WHERE EUROPEAN JEWS COME FROM. IT CLEARLY SHOWS YOU ARE A NAZI RACIST WHO THINKS JEWS ARE WHITE.
@Lagolop ". So I am a Nazi racist because I think the original Jews were Caucasian!!"
YOU ARE A NAZI BECAUSE SINCE OUR CONVERSATION STARTED YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATING 1000 TIMES THAT JEWS ARE CAUCASIAN BY WHICH YOU MEAN THEY ARE BLUE EYES, RED HAIR, BLONDES AND WHITE SKIN. YOU HAVE SAID THAT MANY TIMES. YOU DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE MIXED RACE. THE ORIGINAL JEWS ARE SEMITIC BROWN OR LIGHT BROWN PEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT. WHICH MEANS YOU ARE A NAZI RACIST IN DISGUISE
"JEWS ARE CAUCASIAN BY WHICH YOU MEAN THEY ARE BLUE EYES, RED HAIR, BLONDES AND WHITE SKIN"
No, I know they were Caucasian because simply put, that is what they were, and for the most part still are.
BTW, not all Caucasians have blond hair and blue eyes. I never said that. Neither did I say that all Jews are blond or red heads or h ave blue eyes. Even you with your light brown skin is, like it or not, CAUCASIAN.
@Lagolop OK. Lets be clear. "Semitic" is not just a linguistic term. It is also an ethnicity. The word "semitic" is used to denote the people living in between the Arabian desert to Northern Syria and Iraq with a common branch of Semitic languages, race and social structure. The term "Caucasian" was tossed by a German anthropologist in 1800s which also included the middle eastern people based on skeletal remains dating back thousands of years ago.
Since we all humans first came from Africa and then to middle east and then to Europe, we all have a common DNA dating back 50,000 or 100,000 years ago or more. As humans moved from middle east to the northern Caucasus and then to Europe and Northern Europe, the DNA structure changed and so did their appearances. So in this way the middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians. But genetically they have a different DNA than the European race
@Lagolop I don't know how much you know about geneology. The DNA structure is like a tree. It depends how far you want to go down to trace your ancestry. If you go down to the roots of the tree, then all humans come from Africa. Its well proven by scientists. And if you want to trace your ancestry about 5000 yrs, then you need to go to upper branches. And if you want to trace 500 or 1000 yrs, then more upper branches.
@Lagolop I didn't say "Caucasian" is an American concept. I said its commonly used here during job application, census and other occasions. Its just a group. For Example, its just like the term "MEXICAN". People usually think they are brown, dark brown people jumping the borders illegally into US for work. LOL But the term "MEXICAN" is just a nationality. There are white hispanic(from N Spain), indigenous people, brown hispanic (S Spain) etc... So they all have different DNA.
@Lagolop "You are one lousy excuse for a Jew (if you are one at all)."
YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THOSE BLACK RACIST KKK WHO THINK ISRAELITES WERE NEGROIDS. AND A NAZI LIKE YOU THINKS THAT JEWS WERE WHITE WITH BLONDE HAIR AND BLUE EYES AND RED HAIR AND ALL THAT CRAP.
TWO EXTREME PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A PLACE IN JUDAISM.
@Lagolop RACISTS LIKE YOU WHO CLAIM THEY ARE JEWISH (IF YOU CLAIM TO BE) COME TO ISRAEL AND BEAT THE JEWS IN SUBWAYS AND SPRAY NAZI GRAFFITI ON JEWISH CEMETERIES. REMEMBER THAT? IF YOU ARE IN TOUCH WITH EVERYDAY NEWS IN ISRAEL, YOU WILL KNOW ABOUT IT. RACISTS LIKE YOU WHO THINK JEWS ARE WHITE, BLONDE AND REDHEAD ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN WHITE SUPREMACIST RACISTS WHO THINK JESUS WAS A PURE ARYAN WHITE GUY. THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.
@Lagolop "I told you they were forced to wear specific clothing and symbols to distinguish them from their Christian neighbours."
ok. Answer me one simple question. Why do you think the Mizrahi Jews look different than the Ashkanazi Jews??? There are many ashkanazi jews who are completely white. Also tell me why there are some Ashkanazi Jews who still look like the Mizrahi Jews? The answer is Jews who settled in Europe married white europeans and thus the white genes passed on. DNA says it
"Why do you think the Mizrahi Jews look different than the Ashkanazi Jews???"
There are plenty of Ashkenazim that look like Mizrahim. I would not dispute that. In that I mean they are darker skin toned. It depends on their familial genetics. It can even happen within a family (Jewish or otherwise) where some siblings are fair and some are swarthy.
Allow me to now pose your same questions. Why is it that the Kurds have fair skin? They are not mixed at all. Most are very insular.
Kurds are no different than the rest of Iraqis or syrians or others in their looks. They all look the same. They don't look like European white people. Some look brown and some look light brown. But nobody looks like a white european. PERIOD
Similarly, the term "aryan" was used by SHITler et al, to describe the superior "race". However, that is also a linguistic term. If the Nazi idiots realized what typical "aryan" speakers looked like, they would have shit themselves cuz "aryans" sure as hell do NOT look "nordic".
BTW, ever see the hideous characateurs used by the Nazis to portray Poles? Just as bad as the used for Jews. Both misrepresentations. Ironically, more Poles look "nordic" than most Germans ... LOL.
@Lagolop "I would refer to you as a Levantine Jew who speaks a semitic language"
Exactly. That's what I would refer myself. But not a white Caucasian Nordic person. Genetically we both are different. VERY DIFFERENT. If Europeans and middle eastern people were all same, then there would have been no way in tracing the genes of Ashkanazi Jews to middle east. Though many ashkanazi jews are mixed with whites, they still have some DNA remaining which is similar to the middle eastern people.
@Lagolop "WTF! NO, it's because of their genetics."
The whole world knows that people in southern europe are darker because of geographical location. The sun and hot climate had genetically designed humans that way. In fact even a white person who stays in sun constantly could get dark over time. The climate influences the physical characteristics and skin color of human beings. If you didn't know such a simple scientific fact, then I guess you need to do some learning.
It depends on what you see as white. Like I said before about my race many times(which you keep asking again and again) I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white. Surely, nobody here in US sees me as "WHITE" LOL. Obviously ashkanazi jews stare at me and ask "where are you from" just like non-jews do it. WHICH MEANS THAT I DON"T FIT INTO THEIR COMMUNITY. Truth is ,Jews are not the "WHITE" you are talking about. You are confused
"I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white"
I told u, 'white' is a euphemism for Caucasian which does not mean "lily white". What race r u?
I think u r very sensitive and perhaps seeing into something that is not there (I may be wrong). To me Jews r Jews regardless how they look, & Jews r ONE community at the end of the day. I doubt I am an anomaly.
It's normal 4 ppl to ask about your origins when u r not the norm. Is that so bad?
@Lagolop " There is even archaeological evidence that they were often fair skinned & red heads with blue eyes"
I don't know where you got the information from. There is no archeological evidence that the original Jews were white like Europeans with blue eyes and red heads. Those are the mixed race Jews. You are acting like those black racist KKK people who claim Jews were blacks. GOD! Give me a break. Don't you blacks and whites see something in between??? Like Brown and light brown
R u so sure of that? You are wrong. And I never said there was no mixing. There is NO PURE anybody and has not been for a long time. Long before the Jews ever left their homeland. Even then there was mixing. Why do you think there r some dark Jews; they have mixed with dark people like arabs and Greeks and Romans. Ever think of that ...
BTW there are not just "some" dark Italians and Greeks; MOST are dark.
@Lagolop I once heard one ashkanazi jew say that the middle eastern people are Cushites. LOL what? They don't know the history or genetics of anything. The arabs are the most hateful people because of their disgusting religion and hatred towards we Jews. But they are not cushites. Abraham, Ezra, Ezakiel and all the prophets were from middle east. They were semitic people just like other semitic people in those days like Canaanites, amorites, phoenicians etc.
"The arabs are the most hateful people because of their disgusting religion and hatred towards we Jews"
Well, on THAT we agree!
And let me add, the Israelis are not the only ones currently having to deal with that filthy death cult known as islam. It's almost killed Europe, is working fast on the USA and will soon be in my country of Canada.
@Lagolop You were asking why then I associate with ashaknazi jews. Well, first, there are no mizrahi synagogues here. There are a few in the coastal area but not here. Second, at first I never minded going to ashkanazi shul until I was seen as an outsider. Now you tell me who is a racist and who sees everything as "White" LOL. THE WHITE JEWS ARE DISCRIMINATING US THE SAME WAY HOW THE WHITE EUROPEANS DISCRIMINATED THE JEWS WHEN THEY MIGRATED TO EUROPE.
In fact, from the way you write I would not be surprised if you are not actually Jewish AT ALL. ONe does not usually read about Jews treated other Jews as inferior. I do not know vast amounts of Jews but none of the ones I do know are like that. OTOH, I have actually met some Mizrahi Jews that were rather aggressive.
@Lagolop "In fact, from the way you write I would not be surprised if you are not actually Jewish AT ALL."
Ok. Since I told that I have been discriminated by ashkanazi jews, you think I'm not Jewish because I'm pointing out at them. Who are you to say if I'm Jewish or not? We have been Jews long before you could ever think what Judaism was about. I'm more Jewish and Semitic than any ashkanazi Jews can ever dream of being.
"I'm more Jewish and Semitic than any ashkanazi Jews can ever dream of being."
Wow! Look who is calling the kettle black!
If you are a Jew, you would never have said that. I'm shocked that you would think there is some form of "degree" to being part of the nation of Jews. To me, a Jew is a Jew and in Jewish tradition, is it not true that converts are considered in high regard. If that is true then converts are more Jewish than those born into the religion.
@Lagolop "If you are a Jew, you would never have said that."
Yes I'm a Jew and I'm saying that. I don't know if you are Jewish or not. I never asked. But if you visit Israel you will see division between ashkanazi and mizrahi still exists. If ashkanazi Jews; who came into the Jewish world much later than the Mizrahi Jews who have been since the time of Abraham, start discriminating the indigenous Jews of middle east, then its time to call out and say how much Jewish they genetically are...
@Lagolop Whenever we complain of discrimination, then we are criticized for dividing people. It's not just me who feels discriminated. It still exists in Israel. In politics, education, income etc. Many Mizrahi Jews feel like me. If you are so concerned about unity, then stop the discrimination, let there be social justice in Israel for all Mizrahi jews, lets talk about 4000 yrs of Mizrahi Jewish history and culture. And not just about 500yr or 1000 yr old ashakanazi culture.
"I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white"
OK, let me try again. I am making a point that you ARE Caucasian if you are a Jew of direct Levantine descent. The races are not simply defined by skin tone. So you can have light brown skin and still be of the broad Caucasoid race.
But these days, there are few people, especially those perceived as Caucasian, that can claim they are pure anything. There has been a lot of mixing.
@Lagolop In Israel there is still division between the Mizrahi and Ashkanazi. There is discrimination in housing, income, education etc. In fact a recent survey done in Israel found that Ashkanazi Jews are proud to say they are ashkanazi Jews before they are Israelis. While the Mizrahi Jews said they are Israelis and everyone is same. We all Mizrahi Jews see every Jew as one. Its you who discriminate and make divisions. NOT US
@Lagolop Well, if you want every brown, light brown and european whites to be grouped as Caucasians then so be it. I guess that will satisfy your agenda. It is actually done here in US the same way. But genetically its not correct. Middle eastern base DNA is different than European base DNA. That is how researchers have come to know that Ashkanazi Jews have middle eastern ancestry. If Europeans and Middle eastern were same then no way anybody would have made any difference.
Then what would your American neighbors refer to you as?
I am not deputing that Ashkenazim and Mizrahim are more than not, genetically the same. That was my point all along. You are getting hung up on PHENOTYPES which vary for all the reasons I already pointed out.
Genomes, OTOH, do not change. Most Jews world wide share common genetics indicating ancient Levantine origins be they white, light brown or green.
@Lagolop "Then what would your American neighbors refer to you as?"
My American neighbors see me as some eastern guy. Not Caucasian. LOL Nobody sees me as Caucasian and I don't want them to see us as white Caucasians. Middle eastern people are group under Caucasian only during filling out forms for a jobs or something else. I REPEAT. ITS JUST A GROUPING THING THAT YOU FIND IT ON PAPER. GENETICALLY MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE ARE NOT SAME AS THE WHITE NORDIC EUROPEANS.
@Lagolop Until 1990, about 70% of Israeli Jews were Mizrahi. Today they are about 50-55% Mizrahi Jews in Israel. Now who knew that. Right? All people think about is Jews from Europe. Though they have always been a majority, the ashakanazi secular elites have held the power. Now how could European Jews discriminate the Jews who have lived in the lands where it all once began.
I saw a holocaust survivor being interviewed recently. She was German. She recalled a time when some prick came to class one day to explain about "racial" purity. She was the only Jewish kid in the class but he was unawares of that. She laughed silently to herself when the "instructor" singled her out as the most perfect "NORDIC SPECIMEN". He said something like "this is what the perfect German girl should look like". How ironic is that bit of minutia ...LOL. True!
OK. example, here in America, there are white people who claim they have Native America blood in them. But they look like white Americans. It is because there was interracial marriage only once. And their native american percentage could be 5-15%. They are mostly white with a little mix of native american. Its the same with the German woman you are talking about. I guess you get the difference!!!
Ha, one of my brothers is married to a First Nations woman. Plains Indian from the Peigan Tribe. Interestingly enough, she converted from Catholicism to Judaism before their kids were born because she wanted them to be Jews. She just had a connection & so did it. Their kids are very fair with blond hair
& blue eyes like my brother, BUT they have aboriginal facial features. They make most ppl who do not know their background, wonder what the heck they are ... LOL.
Very few Caucasians r fair skinned. Would u call Italians, Greeks, Albanians, Armenians, Bulgarians FAIR? No they r not fair skinned but they r ALL part of the Caucasian race just as Levantines.
Even greasy brown arabs from saudi arabia r Caucasian (as Europeans r). Sad but true ... LOL. If you have to categorize them, they r part of the Caucasian race (except the many black ones of course). Granted arabs r generally very dark skinned. Lebanese & Syrians are also Caucasian.
@Lagolop NO. You are confused. Jews were not exiled to Europe after the first temple destruction. They were exiled to Babylon (Iraq). Many historians agree this is the time when the Jews in exile wrote the Torah. The Talmud that we follow today was also written in Babylon.
Having said that, that European history codes not negate the fact that Jewish origins are Levantine and as such they have a right to their ancestral homeland of Israel. They got ripped off as current Israel is much smaller than the original land of the Jewish people.. And fact is that Judea and Samaria is the very heart of that homeland, regardless what Jews now look like, or where their more recent ancestors originated from.
The great rabbi Eliyashuv said the today the Jews are in very great danger. We are now in such danger as the pre-holocaust times. We have the Hitler from Iran who wants to massacre the 6 million Jews in Israel. In Europe the anti-semitism has risen to pre Holocaust times. This song brings Jews together to pray to God that he should save us from the new evil of the world.
The Children-of-Israel will guard/keep/observe (hard to transl) the Sabbath, to make the Sabbath an eternal covenant, for their generations [another way of saying "for eternity"]. She [Sabbath] is a sign between Me [Gd] and the Children-of-Israel for ever and ever.
Then, from the poem "Lecha Dodi"
"Go, my Dear [Gd], toward the Bride; We will receive the presence of the Sabbath." "Come in peace, her Husband's [Gd's] crown, with outcry and with revelry"
I do feel the emotion even without knowing what they are saying. Would someone please tell me what the words are...in English? I know it won't be exact but I'd love to know what their hearts' cry was. Shalom!
The first song is Veshomru, the second is known as the Goldberger Niggun (song). The man leading the singing is R' Goldberger of Baltimore who composed the song, who is the head of a Chasidic shul there. It was at a rally to strengthen the observance of Shabbos in May 2009 as well in response to the JCC decision to open on shabbos.
I was not thinking about the location. I was more curious about the different Haredi or Hassidic groups, and whether the different style of hats was an indicator of a coming together here. This would give added meaning to the closing remarks.
This is a very nice performance. Its too bad that some people use these comment fields as if it was their own personal chatroom, when they want to argue with someone they should take it someplace else. These comment fields are meant for comments about the video, not for off-subject arguments.
pasadenagene 2 months ago
I can't find anything quite like what we used to do. It makes me wonder what I had was so rare. This video here is beautiful and these people are really cool.
JesusOfIskcon 2 months ago
I TYPE ALL IN CAPS SO IM HEARD BETTER!
antibatrat 3 months ago
Hasidism is a new and gentile relgion and should never be confused with any form of Judaism.
ברוך אתה יהוה אלוהינו מלך העולם שלא עשני חסיד
אמן
BrooklynNotQueens 9 months ago
Comment removed
BrooklynNotQueens 9 months ago
Nation of slaves.
Psylocibowy 10 months ago
@Psylocibowy Perhaps if we all took psylocibyin we could liberate ourselves like you clearly have.
colbeseder1 9 months ago
Shalom, to the Jew and Israel.
happy24ra 10 months ago
‹(•¿•)› GOOD SHABBOS ‹(•¿•)›
BobKaye 11 months ago
I will sing unto the Lord, for he is worthy to be praised. All my love to my Elder Jewish Brothers and Sisters.
quietjedi1010101 1 year ago 2
May the Lord Bless you and Keep you in His Light forever, Amen
serventofTheMostHigh 1 year ago
The only thing I hate about all this are those "BLACK HATS". Why don't they start wearing Kippa? There is nothing Semitic about those black hats. THEY ARE NOT IN EUROPE ANYMORE.
ForgottenEasternJews 1 year ago
@ForgottenEasternJews - They where Kippah under the hat. It is showing greater respect to cover your head twice - like on Shabbas day when you where a Tallit over your Kippah. Since we don't where a Tallit on the street, a hat is used. The specific hat is usually associated to the decree of a great Rebbe.
andyinvietnam 11 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
I suppose you think the use of Yiddish is bad too?
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop No I don't hate yiddish or anyone. But all i think is those hats and yiddish (which has german in it), suits well for jews in that area (ashkanaz) but in Israel it is good to have Semitic/mid east culture. '
SHALOM
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
That's fine but one cannot deny one's roots. The Ashkenazi culture and tradition is very old. As for Yiddish, language defines a people to a great extent. Yiddish is one of the oldest Germanic tongues on the planet. It is based on Medieval High German and is similar to Swiss and Austrian German BUT like those, it too is a distinct language and the mother tongue of the Ashkenazi Jews. Just a fact. Yiddish iz zeyer interesant.
-A gutn tog un zay gezunt :)
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop I'm not denying one's roots. I just said I think it's not appropriate to wear European hats or speak yiddish in a country like Israel. Though many chasidic Jews do. Now a days even the Mizrahi Jews in Israel have started to wear those hats. My question to them (mizrahi Jews) is why do you want to wear the hats that is European in nature and doesn't have anything to do with Semitism. Why do you want to lose your middle eastern identity? That's it. That's what I'm worried about.
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
"not appropriate to wear European hats or speak yiddish in a country like Israel."
Why not, if that is what they want to do? Chasidism is a tradition and is not exclusively for European Jews so why can't a Mizrahi practice that form of Judaism and adopt the traditions?
As for Yiddish, I think it should have been made an official language in Israel. It almost became the official language in the beginning.
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop And why do you think Yiddish should have been the official language when it's a European mixed language with little Hebrew??? What about considering the choice of Mizrahi Jews? It's really great that Ben Gurion chose Hebrew. When you are talking about "All Jews are equal" then you cannot impose a European mixed language on the people of Israel who were 70% Mizrahi until 1990. You cannot say me I'm hung up with Semitic and at the same time try to impose European culture.That's hypocrisy
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
I think Yiddish should have been ONE of the official languages, surely that over arabic! I think Yiddish is a part of Jewish culture and tradition. I think it was a good idea that at least a modern form of Hebrew was chosen as a sort of common medium; that was wise. Jews returning to the homeland spoke a myriad of languages so Isreal needed one in common to all Jews.
I said Jews are Jews, not that Jews are equal. Nobody is imposing anything on anyone. Are you forced?
Lagolop 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews It's bad enough that Hebrew is invariably pronounced like a Germanic language which causes several weighty problems (e.g spelling mistakes and a steeper learning curve) rather than a Semitic one due to overwhelming Ashkenazic influence, and the non-Ashkenazics were kept at a distance from the goodies through the semi-official use of Yiddish in the State's first 2 decades or so as a sort of "Our Guys'" tongue.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@Lagolop And I understand why the Jews in Europe wore those hats and spoke Yiddish. They adapted to the environment around them. But when they come to Israel, do you think they should still speak Yiddish and wear those hats? And by the way, I hear some people say I don't like ashkanazi. That's not true. I live in US and here mostly there are ashkanazi Jews and I go to a ashkanazi synagogue. But at the same time I maintain Mizrahi Jewish culture which to me looks genuinely Semitic.
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
You know something, u r hung up on semitic. Not all Mizrahi Jews are actually semitic; some are from the Caucuses like Georgia, some are really from Spain.
As for Yiddish, you are aware that while it is a German language, it contains some Hebrew words and was traditionally written in Hebrew script? Hebrew was not spoken by Ashkenazim except in prayer because it was considered a holy language.
Bottom line; Jews are Jews, no matter how they look or speak.
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop Yes I'm hung up on Semitic because i'm Semitic :) And I'm so proud of it!!!! By the way there are only a very few Georgian Jews. Most of them have Mizrahi culture as they boarder middle east. With regards to Spain, during the golden age of Moorish rule, many Jews migrated to Spain from N Africa during this time. Jews travelling back and forth during this time. That's why Sephardic Jews from Spain had middle eastern culture. For example Rambam was a Mizrahi Jew who later died in Egypt.
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
Nothing wrong with being Mizrahi, and I'm glad you are proud of it. I think there may have been some friction between Mizrahim and Ashkenazim in the past but I think it was because the cultures were so different. I hear that is not the case anymore and there ia a lot of mixing and marriages between them. Like I said, at the end of the day ... Jews are Jews. Under the exterior, all the same ppl.
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop Yes agree! In the end we are all Jews. You respect our deep rooted Semitic culture and I will respect your European culture. תודה רבה
ForgottenEasternJews 8 months ago
@ForgottenEasternJews
Not to worry, I respect all cultures, Jewish or otherwise. There is only one CULTure on this planet that I do not respect. Any culture that is cruel and violent gets no respect from me. There is one that comes to mind.
"תודה רבה" ?
Sorry, I don't understand Hebrew. Can you translate it?
Lagolop 8 months ago
@Lagolop Several extant Germanic tongues preceded Yiddish.Icelandic for 1 even remained less changed by other languages' influence and natural development. And with all due respect to Ashkenazi tradition &culture, it's by far not the oldest within Judaism. Take it from someone who regards himself a "former Ashkenazi": the deepest roots of Jews hailing from central &Eastern Europe are in Eres Yisra'el. Why posit Yiddish should've been one of the official languages but not Ladino?
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
I never wrote that Yiddish is THE oldest Germanic tongue. I may have said it is ONE OF THE OLDEST GERMANIC tongues and I am not incorrect. I never said Yiddish is the oldest Jewish languages; that would be Aramaic and old Hebrew. Neither did I say that Ashkenazim weren't ORIGINALLY from Israel. ALL Jews (unless total converts) have genomes indicating ancient Levantine ancestry i.e. ISRAEL.
There were few Ladino speaking Jews returning to Israel. The topic was Yiddish, not Ladino.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop You were sort of advocating for Yiddish as an official language of Israel, so others have every right to broaden "the topic" to include other Jewish languages in the comments.
My point at any rate was that there was no justification for making Yiddish an official Israeli language, regardless of how much you prefer it had happened.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
PS Zvi, not ONLY those with with haplogroup J genomes, ethnic Jews ; )
Others are too. And the way I look at it, Jews are Jews regardless of origins. All are equally Jewish even though some do not have a drop of Levantine blood in them (and of course that includes ANY converts). You can be Jewish by ethnicity and/or religion.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop While I hold that a Jewish people and nation exist, I don't believe a Jewish ethnicity does any more -- not after the period it went extinct, sometime between 636 and 1100 in Eres Yisra'el. Even there (here) the local Jewish ethnicity since that period has been an admixture of Jewish cultures influences formed mostly abroad.
Everywhere you go worldwide, the question is which Jewish ethnicity a Jew traces from - even though we're all nationally & religiously bonded.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
If there is no ethnicity, how do you explain the overwhelming genetic commonalities between MOST Yidden?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Sir, you didn't know what "Todah rabba" meant in Hebrew letters (when you spoke to an Oriental Jew), so please don't expect me as a non-Ashkenazi to acknowledge the word "Yidden".
At any rate I'll address this issue in my following comment.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ZviJ1
U seem sensitive!
BTW, I thought you wrote you are from a long line of Ashkenazi Jews from Central and Eastern Europe?
You are right, I do not know how to write Hebrew, nor to speak it except for a few words.
But I never brought up Hebrew so why are you telling me ...
"Sir, you didn't know what "Todah rabba" meant in Hebrew letters (when you spoke to an Oriental Jew)"
Why even bring this up?
PS I never said I was an Ashkenazi Jew or otherwise.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Some converts do in fact have "Levantine blood" in them, namely those who live or trace back to the Middle East or are even descended from Jews who were forcefully, or voluntarily converted to Islam or Xtianity.
Other than these facts I agree with your statements. We'll all do best if we leave the claims of "genetically Jewish" to the racist amongst the gentiles (and I'm not implying you were in favor of this construct).
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
I meant converts TO Judaism, not away from it.
I do realize that there are ppl in the ME that WERE practitioners of Judaism, and part of the nation of Israel prior to being forced to accept Christianity and even worse, islam :(
But Jewish (as an ethnicity) does exist. If not, then how does one explain ATHEISTS that happen to also be Jewish?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Who was talking about converts away from Judaism???!! U seem to be making strawmen remarks to rebut statements I didn't make...
I don't think converting out to Islam is worse than accepting Xtianity. My 2 cents in any event.
Athiests can be Jewish since Judaism is a combination of religion and nationality. In other words it's both a nation & religion, even as some highly religious Jews don't recognize the national component. But I don't see a particular Jewish ethnicity in existence.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
"Athiests can be Jewish since Judaism is a combination of religion and nationality. In other words it's both a nation & religion,"
AND an ethnicity, based on history, archaeology and genetics. That commonality makes one an ethnicity.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop I stand by my earlier comments wherein I disagree with you. The days when the Jewish people had thier one and only unique ethnicity are gone since yonder. If anything, history and archaeology reflect this extinct ethnicity and not vise versa. We're not like the Faroese or Icelanders.
Anyway, you may have the last word if you wish, but I'm totally disengaging from this exchange.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@Lagolop You are confusing ethnicity with race. Its the most common confusion people make. Ethnicity means culture, the common way of life, religion etc among a group of people. But race has to do with genetics and DNA. You can change your ethnicity but you cannot change your race. For example, people in middle east have different ethnicity, but they have a common base DNA which is found mainly among middle eastern population. I guess you get the difference now.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael Thanks for demonstrating I'm not the only person who disagrees with the Yiddish enthusiast.
ZviJ1 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
I certainly am not confused ethnicity vs race. Comment was more to piss of the fucking 'black izraelites', who attempt to steal Jewish identity, origins, history etc by claiming the original Jews were negroes. As a corollary; that all white Jews are 'fake'.
U r correct that ethnicity is based on many things such as culture & language. One can become a member of an ethnicity by joining that culture, regardless of race. But, genetic commonality is another factor.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@ZviJ1
BOOBtube strikes again. I sent a message to answer ur comment 2 me.
Basically I did not say that Yiddish is THE oldest Germanic tongue, I may have said 1 of the oldest. That is not bullshit. As for culture, I know very well that the Ashkenazi culture is not the oldest.
I did not posit that Ladino be official cuz there were not many Ladino speakers returning to Israel at the time. I was discussing Yiddish, nothing else. It was not to lessen the value of Ladino or Sephardic traditions.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Well the so called Sephardic Jews are actually mostly Mizrahi Jews. About 80% of the Sephardic Jews have nothing to do with Spain and are not Spanish. 2000 yrs ago there were about 50,000 Jews in Spain. In later centuries many Jews migrated from N Africa to southern Spain especially during the Golden era. They stayed there for more than 500 yrs and returned to where they once came from; that is N Africa and Middle east. So, Ladino is not Semitic just like Yiddish.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"So, Ladino is not Semitic just like Yiddish."
Absolutely. Ladino is based on Medieval Castilian and Yiddish is based on Medieval High German. However, both have some semitic elements i.e. Hebrew and Aramaic borrow words. I cannot speak much about Ladino but I know that Yiddish also contains some Slavic elements incorporated when some of the Jewish people migrated out of Western Europe and into Slavic regions.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Anyone with a brain knows that the Jewish nation began in the Levant. A nation made up of tribes of Caucasian (as in white race) Middle Eastern people.
There are freaks out there like the "black israelites" that are trying to steal the identity of Jewish people with all manner of lies. Those people are looking for a prouder history than slavery so they try to tell people that the "real" Jews were black. Ridiculous!
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop aww those black israelites are full of crap. I have argued with them many times. They are nothing but a bunch of black racists. They are the black KKK.
I'm a Mizrahi Jew. I'm light brown in color. But I'm not a white european person. The problem with black racists is they see white european ashkanazi Jews in America and think that the entire Jewish people are fake. They don't know that even ashkanazi Jews did not look the same about 100 or 300 years ago in Europe. They looked semetic
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"white" is just a euphemism for Caucasian race. Doesn't mean that Caucasians r literally lily white skinned, not all r. And not only Europeans are white for Pete sake.
Ashkenazic phenotypes r manifestations of family genetics, environment & admixture. Jews have lived in Europe since 600 BC, their phenotypes will reflect that. Look at some Medieval portraits of Euro Jews & they are often blond, fair & blue eyed (and some are darker). But ancient genomes indicate Levantine origins.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Agree with most of what you say. Just one correction. Jews have history in Europe since 63 BCE not 600 BC. Some say that Jews have history in Spain (which is in Europe) since Soloman's time. But there is no evidence. They found Phoenician pottery with semitic writings in Spain which was due to trade. But no evidence of Jewish settlement in those times. Also, though the Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 yrs, the majority of Jews lived in middle east and north africa
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
When was the first temple destroyed? That was when they moved into other regions including Europe. The point I was making is that they have been Europeans fro a long long time. In fact, most Jews of Ashkenazi heritage have been in Germany longer than most "Germans". They were in the Rhine long before there was such as thing as Germany", same for Switzerland, France, Austria etc.
BTW, recently in Mains (Germany) a mikva dated to 100 BC was discovered.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Like i said earlier, the further you go back in time, the more semitic the Jews looked in Europe. Medieval portraits don't give you the exact color of people. The artists in europe painted Jesus, Moses, Abraham and others as white caucasians with blonde hair and blue eyes too. I have seen many real pictures of jews in europe about 100 or 150 years ago. Some of them looked Semitic. In one picture, half the students in a school have middle eastern looks. Also they wore ME hats.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"The artists in europe painted Jesus, Moses, Abraham and others as white caucasians with blonde hair and blue eyes "
Of course they did cuz they DID NOT see the original dudes. OTOH, Medieval Jews were painted from actual Jewish ppl living at the time in Europe.
LOL, what does 100 years ago have to do with anything at all. As if there has been some dramatic change in Jewish phenotypes only in recent history. I know more blond haired, blue eyed fair Jews than I ME looking ones.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop 100 , 150, 300 or 500 years has a lot to do with the change in ashkanazi Jewish DNA. You must remember that though Jews have lived in Europe for 2000 yrs, the Jewish population and culture did not flourish for about 1000 yrs. Though many ashkanazi Jews have middle eastern DNA, they have been mixed very much with the white europeans. Thus how you get the white Jews. Exactly like the black Ethiopian Jews who have Afro-middle eastern DNA.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Ethiopian Jews do not have the same genetics apparently. Mostly they are from pure converts. That does not mean they are not as Jewish in the religious sense.
Ur hung up on the term "WHITE". I told u it's just a reference to the Caucasian race. There r only 4 pure races to choose from. Where do U think most Jews belong; Australoid, Mongoloid, Negroid or CAUCASIAN? Just because some r less than lily white doesn't mean they r not "white". Very few Caucasians r fair skinned.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Where do U think most Jews belong; Australoid, Mongoloid, Negroid or CAUCASIAN? "
LOL. So do you think I'm white Caucasian? NO. I live in America. I go to ashakanazi synagogue. You can easily differentiate ME from ALL other ashakanazi Jews here. I'M NOT SAYING ALL ASHKANAZI JEWS LOOK THE SAME. SOME ARE LIKE WHITE AMERICANS AND SOME A LITTLE BIT DARKER(VERY FEW). BUT MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY WHITE.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
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Lagolop 4 months ago
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Lagolop 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JudeaIsrael
I have no idea whatsoever which race you are nor do I know what you look like, nor do I really care. You have said nothing that I have not said and I am not disputing this with you. So you're dark skinned and attend an Ashkenazi shul. You seem to disapprove of Ashkenazi, then why associate with them?
What race are YOU? Fill me in, educate me. IF not Caucasian, what then ...
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Does it disturb you to see all these "European" looking Jews? Are they less Jewish than you? If you are in fact Jewish, then you carry the same ancient genomes. Why do you want to separate Yidden? They should stay united. Division is for the enemy. It makes the enemy weak & pathetic scum that they r despite their great numbers. The Jews have stayed united & THAT is a strength. I suggest u look for similarities, not differences in religious tradition or outward appearances.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop I never said of dividing anyone. We were talking about history and genetics and I was giving you the facts. I was just saying what history and genetic research says. I was not making up stuff to divide among ourselves. We all are Jews. Mizrahi, Ashkanazi, more Semitic, less Semitic whatever. We are Jews.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop I AGREE PEOPLE IN MIDDLE EAST ARE LUMPED INTO CAUCASIAN GROUPS. THOUGH SYRAINS, KURDS, IRANIANS, LEBANESE AND OTHERS FROM NORTHERN MIDDLE EAST ARE LIGHT SKINNED, BUT THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE EUROPEAN WHITES. IF JEWS WERE WHITE CAUCASIANS THEN THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN RACIALLY DISCRIMINATED FOR CENTURIES IN EUROPE. THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN HOLOCAUST. WHY WOULD NAZI RACISTS DRAW JEWS AS DARK SKIN AND MIDDLE EASTERN LOOKING.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"IF JEWS WERE WHITE CAUCASIANS THEN THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN RACIALLY DISCRIMINATED FOR CENTURIES IN EUROPE"
R u kidding me! They were discriminated on based on RELIGION. Why were they forced to wear special Jew hats & other garb? It was to distinguish them from their Christian neighbors!
Nazi depictions of Jews were to vilify them. I often shake my heard when I see pictures of the little blond Jewish kids in the camps. They were more "nordic" than the nazis. Ironic.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop ok. So you mean to say the discrimination was only religious. The Nazis hated Jews only because of their beliefs. And the Jews in Europe looked white with blonde hair the moment they landed in Europe? LOL NO.
That blonde kid and woman you are talking about is obviously a child of a convert or mixed race. You don't need a genius to figure that out. Many Europeans have felt sympathy towards the Jews over the centuries. Many have converted or have inter racially married
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
We do not know "obviously" anything about her. Never assume. No I never suggested the first immigrants to Europe looked like Europeans. Neither did I suggest they looked like negroes. I think they likely looked Levantine. Some experts suggest the closest relations to the original Jews are the Kurds so I suspect that the original Jews may have looked similar.
WTF, most Europeans over the centuries have felt nothing but animosoty toward Jews as "Christ killers", not "sympathy".
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop ok have you heard of the term "YOU LOOK JEWISH"? I have heard that a lot. Its because Jews looked different than Europeans. Jews were forced to wear the star of david mainly because they were mixed and hard to find who was who and also to humiliate the Jews even if they looked different than the Europeans.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
LOL, the same "Jewish look" can be applied to Italians and Greeks, SPanish, Romanians etc. Truth is, MOST Jews do not look so stereotypic. People don;' consider the ones that do NOT look "Jewish". If they only knew how many Jews live on this planet that they pass on the street but never give a thought that they are Jewish, and conversely how many NON Jews there are that ppl assume ARE Jewish based on a look. I told you, it's dangerous to assume.
What "race" are you???
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Yes, some Italians and Greeks (southern part) look meditarrenean or middle eastern because of their location. My point is original Jews are not white people. White ashkanazi Jews are a mix of middle eastern and european people. Even DNA tests prove that. ONLY environmental conditions will not change the race of a people in 1000 or 2000 yrs. It would take thousands of years for Jews to get white, blonde and blue eyes unless you get married to white Europeans.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"Because of their location."
WTF! NO, it's because of their genetics.
The original JEWS WERE WHITE (as in Caucasian). Maybe not lily white like Swedes, nonetheless white. What would you call them; negroes? They sure as hell were not Mongoloid or Australoid. You have nothing left but WHITE, period. Deal with it. There is even archaeological evidence that they were often fair skinned & red heads with blue eyes. And that was BEFORE they ever were in touch with Europeans.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop You want to know my race. I already told you that I'm a Mizrahi Jew of middle eastern descent. Just in case you want to know more about the Jews of middle east, here you go:
The religion of Israelites later known as Judaism was born in middle east. Abraham was born in UR (iraq) and traveled to the promised land. Everything from the birth of Judaism till the writing of Talmud and the great Jewish scholars were all from middle east. And I'm proud to be a part of it.I guess that explains
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
U still have not told me your race. You said you were a Mizrahi of ME descent, but I want to know if you are Caucasian, Mongoloid, Australoid or Negroid. It's as if you told me you are of the European race; there is no such "race".
The ppl from UR were likely the same ethnicity as the present Kurds. Another connection perhaps between Jews and Kurds today.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "U still have not told me your race. You said you were a Mizrahi of ME descent, but I want to know if you are Caucasian, Mongoloid, Australoid or Negroid"
I'm Semitic. If you know what that means. Middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians especially here in US because of grouping purposes. It does not we we are genetically or physically similar to the nordic white europeans. Semitic Jews have a different DNA than the europeans.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"I'm Semitic. If you know what that means. Middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians especially here in US because of grouping purposes. "
I believe we are making a modicum of progress :) Yes u may be semitic (which in reality is a linguistic term), but I will let you have that one. Being "Semitic" is more akin to being Scandinavian, it is NOT a race. Both "Semites" and Scandinavians are Caucasoid.
I would refer to you as a Levantine Jew who speaks a semitic language.
Lagolop 4 months ago
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop Grouping doesn't make a damn difference. Does it? If Semitic and Europeans are all same then there never would have been racial discrimination for centuries. YOU SAID THE DISCRIMINATION WAS RELIGIOUS NOT RACIAL. NO. YOU ARE SO WRONG. IT WAS BOTH. THEN WHY WOULD HITLER CALL JEWS AS SUB HUMANS. THROUGHOUT HISTORY IN EUROPE, PEOPLE HAVE CONSIDERED JEWS AS A DISTINCT RACIAL GROUP. IN MID 1800s, JEWS IN EUROPE WERE GIVEN THE NAME "SEMITIC" TRACING THEIR RACE BACK TO MIDDLE EAST.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
The term "semitic" in reference to Jews was coined by a German with an inferiority complex manifested as a superiority complex. That is usually the case; both are the same thing really.
Anyway, this German dude was trying to isolate the Jews and to make them hated all the more. How many Jews do you know that look like the horrible drawing of WWII? Not many right?
The thing is, this idiot was not using a racial term, he was using a linguistic one ...LOL.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Ok. So do you believe the the term "semitic" should not have been used? Don't you think that the Jews in Europe were Semitic??? The person who tossed this name may have had a different intention. But Jews are Semitic right? My whole point is, Jews in Europe were once as Semitic as the middle eastern Jews when they landed their foot in Europe. But not anymore. Today's they are a mixed race with white europeans.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
U use the term semitic as an ethnic one when it is a linguistic one. Levantine and arabs and Lebanese and Syrians and Iraqis etc ALL use semitic tongues but they are different people, both culturally and ethnically.
All are Caucasian RACIALLY, even dark skinned arabs (exceeding "negroid" arabs).
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"Today's they are a mixed race with white europeans"
No, they were and still are the SAME race; CAUCASIAN.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Anyway, this German dude was trying to isolate the Jews and to make them hated all the more."
Jews were a unique and different people in Europe. Everyone knows that. Even the Jews lived in their closed communities for a while. They were discriminated both religiously and racially. Over the centuries they got inter racially married to whites. But to this day, they are seen different even if they are 80% or 90% white.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop By the way, I don't know where this whole conversation is going????? Your argument was Jews have been white, blonde and blue eyes from the beginning. You said the Jews/Semitic people/ middle eastern people Caucasians.
My point is, Jews have not been white, blonde and blue eyes from the beginning. Jews are Semitic people and they have been racially discriminated throughout history. Even till the time of Hitler. Yes, middle eastern people are grouped as "Caucasians" ONLY on paper.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"You said the Jews/Semitic people/ middle eastern people Caucasians."
Yes, they all were Caucasian, originally. Not all light skinned but all nonetheless racially classified as Caucasian.
As for fair NON EUROPEANS, they existed long ago & still do, even with no Euro admixture. Not as common but it did exist. As stated before, in the case of Jews, they were often described as red headed & fair.
Now the ME is filled with ppl of all races just as all other places on this planet.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "As stated before, in the case of Jews, they were often described as red headed & fair."
God! LOL Give me a break. I don't know where you are getting all this information from. "RED HEADED AND FAIR". LOL Just because you are white european, you are grouping most Jews as Red head, white and fair skinned. NO. There are about 4.5 Million Mizrahi Jews out of 13 Million Jews. And 99% of the Mizrahi Jews are NOT red headed, blonde or white. Yes they are light colored but NOT like you say.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop Its very clear from the conversions that I know more about the Jewish race than you know. You are taking the grouping concept which you find only on paper and saying that brown, light brown and white are ALL SAME RACE. NO THEY ARE NOT. The term CAUCASIAN is only used from grouping especially here in US for jobs, census etc. The white Caucasian Europeans and middle eastern people are GENETICALLY AND PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT. I REPEAT, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT DNA STRUCTURE.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"The term CAUCASIAN is only used from grouping especially here in US for jobs, census etc. "
WTF, the term Caucasian is NOT an American construct!
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Now the ME is filled with ppl of all races just as all other places on this planet."
LOL YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. FIRST YOU SAID ALL MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE ARE CAUCASIAN RACE. YOU ARE NOW SAYING MIDDLE EAST IS FILLED WITH ALL RACES. NEXT TIME PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND BEFORE YOU ARGUE. YOU ARE LIKE THOSE BLACK ISRAELITIES OR THOSE ARABS WHO ARE FILLED WITH HATE BUT HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"YOU ARE NOW SAYING MIDDLE EAST IS FILLED WITH ALL RACES."
You need to read my post again, I did NOT say that. I said the ORIGINAL Levantines were Caucasian. I went on to say that as with all over the planet, the ME is now populated by all races of ppl. Just as in North America.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"Yes, middle eastern people are grouped as "Caucasians" ONLY on paper."
What the hell is that supposed to mean? It is fact, with or without paper.
Jews in Europe suffered religious persecution, not racial. I told you they were forced to wear specific clothing and symbols to distinguish them from their Christian neighbours. Jew hats, Jew badges (the most infamous being the yellow star). If they looked so different, why bother? A fashion statement?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Jews in Europe suffered religious persecution, not racial."
EVEN HITLER WOULD LAUGH AT YOU. YOUR WHOLE IDEA HAS BEEN TO PROVE THAT JEWS ARE WHITE CAUCASIAN AND THERE WAS NO RACIAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A JEW AND THE EUROPEANS. HOW DUMB CAN A HUMAN BEING CAN GET. YOU ARE EITHER IGNORANT OR YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST WHO FINDS COMFORT IN PORTRAYING JEWS AS WHITE SO YOU COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEM. SO PATHETIC
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
You know what; I have not used any epithet towards you in any posts but you continually hurl insults at me. I think you have a chip on y our shoulder.
Why would I feel "good" about white Jews? I am just stating facts. It is YOU that feels BAD about fair skinned Jews.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
YOU are the racist! SHITler and his minions scape goated the Jews with bullshit propaganda about racial impurity or inferiority. I find that ironic since most of the greatest "Aryan" minds were of the German Jews. Does Einstein ring a bell? Of course you may not approve of him since he was an Ashkenazi. Are you sucked into Nazi propoganda?
You are one lousy excuse for a Jew (if you are one at all).
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Are you sucked into Nazi propoganda?"
I'm not but you are sucked into that Nazi shit. YOU LIKE JEWS ONLY BECAUSE YOU THINK JEWS ARE WHITE SKIN WITH BLUE EYES, BLONDE HAIR AND RED HAIR. SINCE OUR CONVERSATION STARTED YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATING THAT 1000 TIMES. YOU ARE JUST NOT READY TO ACCEPT THAT JEWS ARE BROWN OR LIGHT BROWN SKIN LIKE THE MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE. THIS IS IRONIC GIVEN THE FACT WHERE EUROPEAN JEWS COME FROM. IT CLEARLY SHOWS YOU ARE A NAZI RACIST WHO THINKS JEWS ARE WHITE.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
" IT CLEARLY SHOWS YOU ARE A NAZI RACIST WHO THINKS JEWS ARE WHITE."
WOW! Thanks for the laugh. So I am a Nazi racist because I think the original Jews were Caucasian!! I think I better go and digest that a bit ...LOL.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop ". So I am a Nazi racist because I think the original Jews were Caucasian!!"
YOU ARE A NAZI BECAUSE SINCE OUR CONVERSATION STARTED YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATING 1000 TIMES THAT JEWS ARE CAUCASIAN BY WHICH YOU MEAN THEY ARE BLUE EYES, RED HAIR, BLONDES AND WHITE SKIN. YOU HAVE SAID THAT MANY TIMES. YOU DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE MIXED RACE. THE ORIGINAL JEWS ARE SEMITIC BROWN OR LIGHT BROWN PEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT. WHICH MEANS YOU ARE A NAZI RACIST IN DISGUISE
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"JEWS ARE CAUCASIAN BY WHICH YOU MEAN THEY ARE BLUE EYES, RED HAIR, BLONDES AND WHITE SKIN"
No, I know they were Caucasian because simply put, that is what they were, and for the most part still are.
BTW, not all Caucasians have blond hair and blue eyes. I never said that. Neither did I say that all Jews are blond or red heads or h ave blue eyes. Even you with your light brown skin is, like it or not, CAUCASIAN.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop OK. Lets be clear. "Semitic" is not just a linguistic term. It is also an ethnicity. The word "semitic" is used to denote the people living in between the Arabian desert to Northern Syria and Iraq with a common branch of Semitic languages, race and social structure. The term "Caucasian" was tossed by a German anthropologist in 1800s which also included the middle eastern people based on skeletal remains dating back thousands of years ago.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop continued...
Since we all humans first came from Africa and then to middle east and then to Europe, we all have a common DNA dating back 50,000 or 100,000 years ago or more. As humans moved from middle east to the northern Caucasus and then to Europe and Northern Europe, the DNA structure changed and so did their appearances. So in this way the middle eastern people are grouped as Caucasians. But genetically they have a different DNA than the European race
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop I don't know how much you know about geneology. The DNA structure is like a tree. It depends how far you want to go down to trace your ancestry. If you go down to the roots of the tree, then all humans come from Africa. Its well proven by scientists. And if you want to trace your ancestry about 5000 yrs, then you need to go to upper branches. And if you want to trace 500 or 1000 yrs, then more upper branches.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop I didn't say "Caucasian" is an American concept. I said its commonly used here during job application, census and other occasions. Its just a group. For Example, its just like the term "MEXICAN". People usually think they are brown, dark brown people jumping the borders illegally into US for work. LOL But the term "MEXICAN" is just a nationality. There are white hispanic(from N Spain), indigenous people, brown hispanic (S Spain) etc... So they all have different DNA.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop "You are one lousy excuse for a Jew (if you are one at all)."
YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THOSE BLACK RACIST KKK WHO THINK ISRAELITES WERE NEGROIDS. AND A NAZI LIKE YOU THINKS THAT JEWS WERE WHITE WITH BLONDE HAIR AND BLUE EYES AND RED HAIR AND ALL THAT CRAP.
TWO EXTREME PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A PLACE IN JUDAISM.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop RACISTS LIKE YOU WHO CLAIM THEY ARE JEWISH (IF YOU CLAIM TO BE) COME TO ISRAEL AND BEAT THE JEWS IN SUBWAYS AND SPRAY NAZI GRAFFITI ON JEWISH CEMETERIES. REMEMBER THAT? IF YOU ARE IN TOUCH WITH EVERYDAY NEWS IN ISRAEL, YOU WILL KNOW ABOUT IT. RACISTS LIKE YOU WHO THINK JEWS ARE WHITE, BLONDE AND REDHEAD ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN WHITE SUPREMACIST RACISTS WHO THINK JESUS WAS A PURE ARYAN WHITE GUY. THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop "I told you they were forced to wear specific clothing and symbols to distinguish them from their Christian neighbours."
ok. Answer me one simple question. Why do you think the Mizrahi Jews look different than the Ashkanazi Jews??? There are many ashkanazi jews who are completely white. Also tell me why there are some Ashkanazi Jews who still look like the Mizrahi Jews? The answer is Jews who settled in Europe married white europeans and thus the white genes passed on. DNA says it
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"Why do you think the Mizrahi Jews look different than the Ashkanazi Jews???"
There are plenty of Ashkenazim that look like Mizrahim. I would not dispute that. In that I mean they are darker skin toned. It depends on their familial genetics. It can even happen within a family (Jewish or otherwise) where some siblings are fair and some are swarthy.
Allow me to now pose your same questions. Why is it that the Kurds have fair skin? They are not mixed at all. Most are very insular.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop " It depends on their familial genetics"
Exactly, some have mixed more and some have less.
"Why is it that the Kurds have fair skin?"
Kurds are no different than the rest of Iraqis or syrians or others in their looks. They all look the same. They don't look like European white people. Some look brown and some look light brown. But nobody looks like a white european. PERIOD
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Similarly, the term "aryan" was used by SHITler et al, to describe the superior "race". However, that is also a linguistic term. If the Nazi idiots realized what typical "aryan" speakers looked like, they would have shit themselves cuz "aryans" sure as hell do NOT look "nordic".
BTW, ever see the hideous characateurs used by the Nazis to portray Poles? Just as bad as the used for Jews. Both misrepresentations. Ironically, more Poles look "nordic" than most Germans ... LOL.
Lagolop 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Lagolop "I would refer to you as a Levantine Jew who speaks a semitic language"
Exactly. That's what I would refer myself. But not a white Caucasian Nordic person. Genetically we both are different. VERY DIFFERENT. If Europeans and middle eastern people were all same, then there would have been no way in tracing the genes of Ashkanazi Jews to middle east. Though many ashkanazi jews are mixed with whites, they still have some DNA remaining which is similar to the middle eastern people.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop "WTF! NO, it's because of their genetics."
The whole world knows that people in southern europe are darker because of geographical location. The sun and hot climate had genetically designed humans that way. In fact even a white person who stays in sun constantly could get dark over time. The climate influences the physical characteristics and skin color of human beings. If you didn't know such a simple scientific fact, then I guess you need to do some learning.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop "The original JEWS WERE WHITE"
It depends on what you see as white. Like I said before about my race many times(which you keep asking again and again) I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white. Surely, nobody here in US sees me as "WHITE" LOL. Obviously ashkanazi jews stare at me and ask "where are you from" just like non-jews do it. WHICH MEANS THAT I DON"T FIT INTO THEIR COMMUNITY. Truth is ,Jews are not the "WHITE" you are talking about. You are confused
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white"
I told u, 'white' is a euphemism for Caucasian which does not mean "lily white". What race r u?
I think u r very sensitive and perhaps seeing into something that is not there (I may be wrong). To me Jews r Jews regardless how they look, & Jews r ONE community at the end of the day. I doubt I am an anomaly.
It's normal 4 ppl to ask about your origins when u r not the norm. Is that so bad?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop " There is even archaeological evidence that they were often fair skinned & red heads with blue eyes"
I don't know where you got the information from. There is no archeological evidence that the original Jews were white like Europeans with blue eyes and red heads. Those are the mixed race Jews. You are acting like those black racist KKK people who claim Jews were blacks. GOD! Give me a break. Don't you blacks and whites see something in between??? Like Brown and light brown
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
R u so sure of that? You are wrong. And I never said there was no mixing. There is NO PURE anybody and has not been for a long time. Long before the Jews ever left their homeland. Even then there was mixing. Why do you think there r some dark Jews; they have mixed with dark people like arabs and Greeks and Romans. Ever think of that ...
BTW there are not just "some" dark Italians and Greeks; MOST are dark.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop I once heard one ashkanazi jew say that the middle eastern people are Cushites. LOL what? They don't know the history or genetics of anything. The arabs are the most hateful people because of their disgusting religion and hatred towards we Jews. But they are not cushites. Abraham, Ezra, Ezakiel and all the prophets were from middle east. They were semitic people just like other semitic people in those days like Canaanites, amorites, phoenicians etc.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"The arabs are the most hateful people because of their disgusting religion and hatred towards we Jews"
Well, on THAT we agree!
And let me add, the Israelis are not the only ones currently having to deal with that filthy death cult known as islam. It's almost killed Europe, is working fast on the USA and will soon be in my country of Canada.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
What race are you for the 10th time? Or are you afraid to answer?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop You were asking why then I associate with ashaknazi jews. Well, first, there are no mizrahi synagogues here. There are a few in the coastal area but not here. Second, at first I never minded going to ashkanazi shul until I was seen as an outsider. Now you tell me who is a racist and who sees everything as "White" LOL. THE WHITE JEWS ARE DISCRIMINATING US THE SAME WAY HOW THE WHITE EUROPEANS DISCRIMINATED THE JEWS WHEN THEY MIGRATED TO EUROPE.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
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@JudeaIsrael
"THE WHITE JEWS ARE DISCRIMINATING US THE SAME WAY HOW THE WHITE EUROPEANS DISCRIMINATED THE JEWS WHEN THEY MIGRATED TO EUROPE."
I am sorry for you if that is true, but I cannot imagine it.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
In fact, from the way you write I would not be surprised if you are not actually Jewish AT ALL. ONe does not usually read about Jews treated other Jews as inferior. I do not know vast amounts of Jews but none of the ones I do know are like that. OTOH, I have actually met some Mizrahi Jews that were rather aggressive.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "In fact, from the way you write I would not be surprised if you are not actually Jewish AT ALL."
Ok. Since I told that I have been discriminated by ashkanazi jews, you think I'm not Jewish because I'm pointing out at them. Who are you to say if I'm Jewish or not? We have been Jews long before you could ever think what Judaism was about. I'm more Jewish and Semitic than any ashkanazi Jews can ever dream of being.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"I'm more Jewish and Semitic than any ashkanazi Jews can ever dream of being."
Wow! Look who is calling the kettle black!
If you are a Jew, you would never have said that. I'm shocked that you would think there is some form of "degree" to being part of the nation of Jews. To me, a Jew is a Jew and in Jewish tradition, is it not true that converts are considered in high regard. If that is true then converts are more Jewish than those born into the religion.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "If you are a Jew, you would never have said that."
Yes I'm a Jew and I'm saying that. I don't know if you are Jewish or not. I never asked. But if you visit Israel you will see division between ashkanazi and mizrahi still exists. If ashkanazi Jews; who came into the Jewish world much later than the Mizrahi Jews who have been since the time of Abraham, start discriminating the indigenous Jews of middle east, then its time to call out and say how much Jewish they genetically are...
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop Whenever we complain of discrimination, then we are criticized for dividing people. It's not just me who feels discriminated. It still exists in Israel. In politics, education, income etc. Many Mizrahi Jews feel like me. If you are so concerned about unity, then stop the discrimination, let there be social justice in Israel for all Mizrahi jews, lets talk about 4000 yrs of Mizrahi Jewish history and culture. And not just about 500yr or 1000 yr old ashakanazi culture.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"I'm light brown skin just like a typical mizrahi jew. I'm not white"
OK, let me try again. I am making a point that you ARE Caucasian if you are a Jew of direct Levantine descent. The races are not simply defined by skin tone. So you can have light brown skin and still be of the broad Caucasoid race.
But these days, there are few people, especially those perceived as Caucasian, that can claim they are pure anything. There has been a lot of mixing.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop In Israel there is still division between the Mizrahi and Ashkanazi. There is discrimination in housing, income, education etc. In fact a recent survey done in Israel found that Ashkanazi Jews are proud to say they are ashkanazi Jews before they are Israelis. While the Mizrahi Jews said they are Israelis and everyone is same. We all Mizrahi Jews see every Jew as one. Its you who discriminate and make divisions. NOT US
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"Its you who discriminate and make divisions. NOT US"
That's rich! When did I tell you I was Jewish; Ashkenazi or otherwise?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop Well, if you want every brown, light brown and european whites to be grouped as Caucasians then so be it. I guess that will satisfy your agenda. It is actually done here in US the same way. But genetically its not correct. Middle eastern base DNA is different than European base DNA. That is how researchers have come to know that Ashkanazi Jews have middle eastern ancestry. If Europeans and Middle eastern were same then no way anybody would have made any difference.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
"It is actually done here in US the same way."
Then what would your American neighbors refer to you as?
I am not deputing that Ashkenazim and Mizrahim are more than not, genetically the same. That was my point all along. You are getting hung up on PHENOTYPES which vary for all the reasons I already pointed out.
Genomes, OTOH, do not change. Most Jews world wide share common genetics indicating ancient Levantine origins be they white, light brown or green.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "Then what would your American neighbors refer to you as?"
My American neighbors see me as some eastern guy. Not Caucasian. LOL Nobody sees me as Caucasian and I don't want them to see us as white Caucasians. Middle eastern people are group under Caucasian only during filling out forms for a jobs or something else. I REPEAT. ITS JUST A GROUPING THING THAT YOU FIND IT ON PAPER. GENETICALLY MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE ARE NOT SAME AS THE WHITE NORDIC EUROPEANS.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@Lagolop Until 1990, about 70% of Israeli Jews were Mizrahi. Today they are about 50-55% Mizrahi Jews in Israel. Now who knew that. Right? All people think about is Jews from Europe. Though they have always been a majority, the ashakanazi secular elites have held the power. Now how could European Jews discriminate the Jews who have lived in the lands where it all once began.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
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@JudeaIsrael
U didn't answer my question to you. WHAT RACE ARE YOU?
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
I saw a holocaust survivor being interviewed recently. She was German. She recalled a time when some prick came to class one day to explain about "racial" purity. She was the only Jewish kid in the class but he was unawares of that. She laughed silently to herself when the "instructor" singled her out as the most perfect "NORDIC SPECIMEN". He said something like "this is what the perfect German girl should look like". How ironic is that bit of minutia ...LOL. True!
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop "perfect "NORDIC SPECIMEN"
OK. example, here in America, there are white people who claim they have Native America blood in them. But they look like white Americans. It is because there was interracial marriage only once. And their native american percentage could be 5-15%. They are mostly white with a little mix of native american. Its the same with the German woman you are talking about. I guess you get the difference!!!
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Ha, one of my brothers is married to a First Nations woman. Plains Indian from the Peigan Tribe. Interestingly enough, she converted from Catholicism to Judaism before their kids were born because she wanted them to be Jews. She just had a connection & so did it. Their kids are very fair with blond hair
& blue eyes like my brother, BUT they have aboriginal facial features. They make most ppl who do not know their background, wonder what the heck they are ... LOL.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Very few Caucasians r fair skinned. Would u call Italians, Greeks, Albanians, Armenians, Bulgarians FAIR? No they r not fair skinned but they r ALL part of the Caucasian race just as Levantines.
Even greasy brown arabs from saudi arabia r Caucasian (as Europeans r). Sad but true ... LOL. If you have to categorize them, they r part of the Caucasian race (except the many black ones of course). Granted arabs r generally very dark skinned. Lebanese & Syrians are also Caucasian.
Lagolop 4 months ago
@Lagolop NO. You are confused. Jews were not exiled to Europe after the first temple destruction. They were exiled to Babylon (Iraq). Many historians agree this is the time when the Jews in exile wrote the Torah. The Talmud that we follow today was also written in Babylon.
JudeaIsrael 4 months ago
@JudeaIsrael
Having said that, that European history codes not negate the fact that Jewish origins are Levantine and as such they have a right to their ancestral homeland of Israel. They got ripped off as current Israel is much smaller than the original land of the Jewish people.. And fact is that Judea and Samaria is the very heart of that homeland, regardless what Jews now look like, or where their more recent ancestors originated from.
Lagolop 4 months ago
G-d Bless and keep our elder brothers. This is what it means to lead by example. Beautiful!!!
A Roman Catholic.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
tubernonest 1 year ago 2
I am not Jewish, I am a Greek, but the love and unity shown in this video is beautiful!!! Bravo be proud!!!
kakourosc 1 year ago 2
why do the lubavitch wear ties?
yetislinger 1 year ago
i feel bad for the man standing to his right- I know how awkward that feels.
schulz 1 year ago
The great rabbi Eliyashuv said the today the Jews are in very great danger. We are now in such danger as the pre-holocaust times. We have the Hitler from Iran who wants to massacre the 6 million Jews in Israel. In Europe the anti-semitism has risen to pre Holocaust times. This song brings Jews together to pray to God that he should save us from the new evil of the world.
bzhbzh100 1 year ago
@bzhbzh100
Do you have any proof that Rav Elyashiv said this?
schulz 1 year ago
The Words (Exodus 31:16-17, my transl)
The Children-of-Israel will guard/keep/observe (hard to transl) the Sabbath, to make the Sabbath an eternal covenant, for their generations [another way of saying "for eternity"]. She [Sabbath] is a sign between Me [Gd] and the Children-of-Israel for ever and ever.
Then, from the poem "Lecha Dodi"
"Go, my Dear [Gd], toward the Bride; We will receive the presence of the Sabbath." "Come in peace, her Husband's [Gd's] crown, with outcry and with revelry"
bishop56 1 year ago
I do feel the emotion even without knowing what they are saying. Would someone please tell me what the words are...in English? I know it won't be exact but I'd love to know what their hearts' cry was. Shalom!
MrsCondee 1 year ago
The first song is Veshomru, the second is known as the Goldberger Niggun (song). The man leading the singing is R' Goldberger of Baltimore who composed the song, who is the head of a Chasidic shul there. It was at a rally to strengthen the observance of Shabbos in May 2009 as well in response to the JCC decision to open on shabbos.
lefife54 1 year ago
Wonderful!
It looks like there may be a few different groups represented here. Am I right?
AmosPressley 1 year ago
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yafufa88 1 year ago
@AmosPressley you right, it look almost as if it was taken in Israel...
I wonder what was this and when?
yafufa88 1 year ago
@yafufa88
I was not thinking about the location. I was more curious about the different Haredi or Hassidic groups, and whether the different style of hats was an indicator of a coming together here. This would give added meaning to the closing remarks.
AmosPressley 1 year ago
when/why/where was this?
mosem100 1 year ago
heavenly beautiful nigun!!!
ahlanusahlan 2 years ago
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fuckin faces
i'd like to shit above thier heads
(The Prophets' Killers)
LIFE4RENT302 2 years ago
Beautiful. The impromptu harmony is amazing.
What song is it?
Malleolust 2 years ago
veshambru (rab shlomo carlbach z"l)
giulianokurz 2 years ago
Cool song!
07Studio 2 years ago