Yea realitys known liberal bias is that of failed governments and power in the hands of too few. Reality has a libertarian bias, which are REAL liberals, classic constitutional limited government liberals. Not this modern socialist liberal bullshit that HAS NEVER WORKED ANYWHERE YOU FUCKING MORON!! HAHAHA....Doing the same thing over again, expecting different results. Insanity. Gullible morons who fall for political rhetoric, propaganda, cliches, and campaign slogans. How stupid can you be?
@AroundSun It's never worked anywhere, UNLESS you read history books, which Libertarians refuse to do. In which case it has worked many places. You even told me so yourself, but you were too stupid to know that's what you were saying, when you told me deficit spending ended the Great Depression.
It's painfully clear that you're just making everything up as you go, desperately hoping that I'll go away and quit embarrassing you.
"the first round of TARP was released in October. But, the Federal Reserve could not wait. It began pumping reserves into the banking system in the latter part of September increasing Reserve Bank Credit outstanding from about $890 billion on September 10, 2008 to $1.5 trillion on October 8, $1.9 trillion on October 29, and $2.2 trillion on November 19. " -John Mason
@AroundSun Ron Paul? Haha! Ron Paul is the biggest idiot in the braindead House. Even the dumbass American public knows how full of shit Paul is. That's why he doesn't have a chance of winning the presidency. I'd be surprised if that piece of shit was smart enough to tie his own shoes. Let me guess, you and him use Velcro. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Lots were a little puke liberal dirtbag like you once, but then they grew older (well some did) Some morons like you still believe in words such as HOPE and CHANGE and AL GORE!!! How fucking pathetic really. You remind me of 9/11 conspiracy morons and religious people. You shitheads are really no different. Do you believe in Santa Claus too? Have fun being poor! and losing debates!
@AroundSun Oh, how adorable! After figuring out that no matter what he does, he is not going to win this argument, and none of his dirty debate tricks will distract his intellectual superior, he's going to run away and pout!
Well, anything to avoid thinking. Wouldn't want to make a Libertarian's brain hurt.
@AroundSun But of course, as usual I HAVE looked at the numbers, and I will now share them with you, who trusts his corporate masters to tell him the truth:
Just the 400 richest Americans have a net worth over $1.27 trillion. That's only 400 people, yet it's roughly 8% or 9% of the ENTIRE federal debt. If you don't believe me, here's the link (remove parentheses):
"As we’ve pointed out before, thanks to the historically low 15% tax rate on long term capital gains, the uberrich pay a lower effective federal income tax rate than ordinary rich folks, who get more of their money from salary and other ordinary income, taxed at a top 35%."
Wrong. The government didn't lose money because they didn't have it to begin with. When the government spends more then they take in, they have to borrow to make up the difference. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they're spending too much?
Probably not. You're one of those useful idiots that believes the government can do no wrong.
@AroundSun NO, YOU FUCKING SHITHEAD. IF YOU SPEND THE SAME AMOUNT, BUT TAKE IN LESS MONEY, IT'S THE SAME AS TAKING IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AND SPENDING MORE.
So NOW, in ADDITION to NOT knowing that Bush 2 increased the debt more than ANY other president in history, including Obama right now, NOT knowing that a bubble and recession are NOT the same things, and NOT knowing what GDP is, you now are UNAWARE that subtracting a positive number and adding a negative are the same thing. Amazing.
@AntiLazarus You have been wrong about: Minimum wage, tax increases, stimulus spending, GDP historical data, taxing a producer, private sector vs government efficiency, EXPLOITATION (LMAO), quantitative easing, inflation, as well as simple supply and demand (too many businesses!! lmao!!)
@AntiLazarus You just want things to work the way you want them to work. You want free money without working. That is all you scumbag socialist pieces of shit care about. Socialism killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century, don't you faggots ever learn?? Rationing, poor quality, and everyone being EQUALLY poor. "Well hey, atleast they're equal!"
@AroundSun Waaahhh!!!!! The bad man is still asking me questions I can't answer!!
Change the subject!! Quick!!
GDP please, you lying sack of shit.
Understand that this won't stop until you look reality in the face and admit the truth. You've been beaten, BADLY, and I will continue to remind you until you learn your lesson. The fact that you have done NOTHING but dodge questions, attempt to change the subject, and hurl insults tells you all you need to know.
@AroundSun Then why are you so afraid to look at the facts? You're absolute TERRIFIED of learning anything about economics. You've been on the run from the definition of GDP for a week now.
Son, if your argument hinges on disputing a DEFINITION, especially of something like GDP, then you've already lost.
I'll put you and Mr. Clinton next to each other at my next get together. There, you two can debate the definition of common words, like "is" and "GDP" lol.
@AntiLazarus I have made no mistakes, the GDP formula has been discussed, and you admitted that you were wrong "maybe i am wrong" your exact words. And you were SO fucking wrong it was pathetic. The average economic decline after federal spending bills is not growth LOL. But a little whiny puke like yourself would think so. Look at all your yelling. I can make you dance just by typing.
@AroundSun Well then quote the post!! You and I KNOW you have NOT posted them formula. I have, but that it not what I am asking for, because when I post it, you simply pretend not to see it.
If YOU post it, you cannot continue to dodge the question, as you have been doing for over a week, trying to cover up your asinine statement that "government spending DECREASES GDP," when this is contradicted by the very definition.
Why else would you make so many excuses to get out of posting it?
@AroundSun Who was it that didn't pay attention in math class again? To NOT KNOW that x-1 and x+ (-1) are the same thing, and to NOT KNOW 5 trillion is bigger than 4 trillion really gets into short bus territory.
@AntiLazarus obama is bush on mega-steroids!! $4 TRILLION to the national debt in his first 2 years!! That's an increase of the natl debt of 40% in less than 2 years!! and you think we are in this from Bush tax cuts! You need to quit suckin the Kool-aid off of harry reid's titties.. You would make a perfect liberal politician. Great for ruining our nation, bankrupting our country, and making us third world with hyperinflation.
@AntiLazarus This is great how you try to disprove gravity and debunk factual statements that have been around for decades and decades. Like you are creating your own economic science or something. Inflation is the increase in the money supply. Price increases are a result of inflation not inflation itself. The amount of shit that you are dead wrong about is unreal.
Inflation can't happen unless that money is actually SPENT, but when DEMAND (you do know what demand is, right?) is TOO LOW, and NOT EVERYONE IS SPENDING their money, inflation happens no faster than usual.
You don't understand that an economy in recession is different than a healthy economy, lmfao. This is why Keynes sails right over the reads of Libertarian fuckwits.
The US literally has the highest corporate marginal tax rate in the world. You will not pay in a lifetime what the richest in this country pay. The lions share of the income taxes.By the way, you want to raise corporate taxes even more? All you are going to do is raise the price of the goods you buy. Simple as that. Fucking liberals are notorious for not understanding unintended consequences because they cant think outside the box for two seconds. They believe in a centrally planned utopia
@AroundSun "The US literally has the highest corporate marginal tax rate in the world."
Yes, but our tax code is also littered with exemptions that reduce the EFFECTIVE rate (hint for economic illiterates: this means the rate you ACTUALLY pay). Here's an example.
You know General Electric? One of those poor, OPPRESSED companies STRUGGLING against the onerous corporate tax rate? Guess how much tax they had to pay in 2010? $1 billion? $10 billion?
@AntiLazarus WHy didnt htey pay anything shit for brains? Because their one of Owe Bamas biggest contributors moron. Even if they were taxed high, a simpleton moronic liberal like yourself believes that corporations actually pay taxes!! HAHA. Even if it were at 50%, THEY STILL WOULDNT PAY IT. Prices rise and wages fall. Youre an idiot!! And if the government was to actually collect any of this, who spends that money more efficiently? Thats right, the business not the govt
"The actions of both the Federal Reserve and Congress in the current crisis have been hurtful. Certainly these policies can create a short term boost to the economy like we are currently seeing, but they are not sustainable policies in the long run. Eventually, Congress has to cut spending or raise taxes, and the Fed has to raise interest rates or risk inflation. At that point the unsustainability of what we are doing will be revealed. The fed has lost all credibility on wall street
With the 'Fractional Reserve Banking' principle. $1T turns into $10T or $100T or? whatever the criminal banksters decide on. Our economy is finished. All those greenbacks will be worthless once hyperinflation hits. Can't print endless trillions out of thin air and expect the economy to survive. Zimbabwe was printing $100,000,000,000,000 notes before they finally collapsed.
@AroundSun Oh goody! Here's ANOTHER thing you didn't know:
printing money DOES NOT CAUSE INFLATION UNLESS THERE IS EXCESS DEMAND in the economy. Think about it (I know that's asking a lot, but humor me): if I print a trillion dollars, I have increased the money supply. If I then shove it in a closet, will it cause inflation? The conservative answer: yes. The sane answer: no, because people are not using it to make purchases.
@AntiLazarus The printed money isn't shoved in a closet you dumb fuck LOL. Oh my god you are so dumb it is unfathomable. If you think we can print money out of thin air without reverse side effects, you are BEYOND DUMB. Do you think the bailout mone was shoved in a closet?? LMAO. Printing money directly causes inflation, rising prices are a side effect of inflation not inflation itself. Are you still trying to argue that spending doesn't decrease GDP EVERY FUCKING YEAR?!! HAHAHAHA
@AroundSun When the printed money is hoarded and not used due either to deflation or to fear of losing's one's job, then it IS basically in a closet, you dumb fuck.
That's why you're so fucking hilarious. You complain about the recession, but you don't understand that the recession means there is a LACK OF DEMAND in the economy, which means that printing money will NOT cause inflation, because it's not all being spent.
@AroundSun Haha, thanks for this post. "Hoard" is actually a pretty common word in economic literature dealing with recessions. The fact that you're unfamiliar with it tells me (and everyone else) you're ALSO unfamiliar with economic literature.
"I have a degree in econ, but I've never read a book on econ and I don't know what GDP is.'
He speaks the right words and I do know both sides love to look like the good guy and never cut, but what I think people want is the "bad guy" that will cut and cut deep. Placing blame isn't helpful because it isn't forward looking. Hopefully, the new congress will be able to take him to task and put aside partisanship and reduce spending going forward. It has to be done, there is no other alternative.
Spending more to get more money to give to people that will use it to pay for bills or keep. Yeah, only liberals would think that this much money is the best idea, and only they would want to spend more.
Did any of you actually listen to what he had to say? Also, "stimulus spending" is an accepted form of economic recovery, and has been done before. There are others, like lowering taxes. Both have advantages and disadvantages. You can't logically complain that our debt increased because that's the DEFINITION of a stimulus. Of course it increased. At least now we have a plan to pay for it, unlike Iraq. Open yourself to sources other than FOX and MSNBC and make logical conclusions for yourself.
CONSIDERING YOU DONT LIKE OVERSPENDING, I AM HAPPY THAT YOU WONT VOTE FOR OBAMA IN THE NEXT ELECTION CONSIDERING HE WILL SPEND 3x AS MUCH AS BUSH, your welfare checks are now worth less due to the new inflation, inflation that went to paying for bankers bailouts, great choice for president, and by the way, bush sucks ass too
Enjoy floating in space obamanaut, enjoy poverty as well, your voted for it.
@999silverrush " inflation that went to paying for bankers bailouts, great choice for president, and by the way, bush sucks ass too"
Apparently you don't realize that it was Bush that gave the bankers the payouts... but go back to watching Fox they'll be happy to tell you more of what to think.
Obamas deficit spending is actually lower than Bushes in his final year of office... clueless one.
Thank God Americans didn't turn on FDR while he was struggling to end the Depression. They had patience back then while FDR increased deficit spending to fight the Depression, probably because the Depression had been going on for three years before FDR was elected. Today, we're spoiled brats, unable - or unwilling - to accept the reality of this economic crisis. And now we're going to turn Congress back over to the GOP, the very party that nearly wrecked our economy?
@Towncrier123 FDR prolonged the recession he didn't end it. One person can't end a recession or depression. It is not the presidents job to run the economy. For every 1% increase in stimuls spending we lost $4,000 GDP per person. Tax raises and decreases are irrelevant to GDP % of tax revenue. We lost more jobs with the stimulus than if we had done nothing at all. Most of that money was given to banks and special interests, it always is. Too big to fail is nonsense. It's also unconstitutional.
@AroundSun The presidient's strategies can set the country on a correct course or worsen the crisis. Obama learned the lesson from FDR and attacked the recession EARLY with massive amounts of deficit spending. FDR cut spending in 1937 to appease Republicans, and the economy fell into a double-dip recession. It wasn't ready to stand on its own yet. It took the massive deficit spending needed to equip our military to fight the Axis that finally pulled us out of that nightmare.
@Towncrier123 Yes, it can, but it doesnt. It makes things worse, usually in unintended ways. That doesn't make it constitutional. Wars do not boost the economy, that is a broken window fallacy. FDR prolonged the recession, the federal reserve created the bubbles which burst. Keynesians always assume that when their remedies fail the dosage of medicine is too low - and never consider that the medicine is itself the problem. The economy does not need to be stimulated, but liberated instead.
@Towncrier123 The simple reason government spending fails to end recessions is that Congress does not have a vault of money waiting to be distributed. Every dollar Congress “injects” into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new income, and therefore no new demand, is created. They are merely redistributed from one group of people to another. Congress cannot create new purchasing power out of thin air. Problem is, we're still broke from the first new deal.
@AroundSun So in other words, the economy's been legally dead since Hoover and a GOP-led Congress were in power in 1929 and it's been on life support since?
@Towncrier123 Why don't you take a look at our 15 digit debt and unfunded liabilities to answer that question. This crisis can´t be managed, we need the free market. You´ve got these cronies in Washington, they are like little kids with a chemistry set, and they keep on throwing these chemicals together, trying one thing after an other, they hope they are going to stumble on a miracle, but they are going to blow us all up! So, the fact is, that printing paper money doesn't create wealth.
@AroundSun " Why don't you take a look at our 15 digit debt and unfunded liabilities to answer that question. This crisis can´t be managed, we need the free market."
HAHAHA!! The market is what got us into this mess to begin with. It's adhering to the free market that's allowed all those corporations to steal from their employees with one hand and steal from the treasury with the other. The REAL workers of America lose both ways. They wouldn't need so much government help if they had money.
@AntiLazarus Capitalism is a system which lets you trade with someone not steal from someone. Lets see, who is greedy? A producer of goods and services that people want and/or need? Only receiving money voluntarily through mutual consent? Or the government stealing your money through force and coercion for political gain? You are ass backwards and are the typical unreachable left. Political fanboy who neglects facts and truths to side with politicians that dont care about him.
@AroundSun Oh yes, those private companies, who control EVERYTHING about your job, and all of terms of your employement, are only voluntary, but the BIG BAD GUB'MINT (by the way, feel free to leave the country at any time), is "stealing" from you. After all, what did they do for you? You don't need their stinkin' roads, or police that give you safe neighborhoods, or good business climate caused by regulation, enforcements of contracts, etc. You don't need their courts. They don't do anything!
@AntiLazarus Yes, you do not have a right to work for me simply because I own a company. Who the hell are you. Liberals think they have a right to someone elses shit ALL THE TIME. Here we go with the typical roads, police, etc...Yes, the government has a list of things they are supposed to run. Read the constitution sometime anti american scum. We live in a republic not a democracy....
@AroundSun Who gives a shit about working for YOU? People have a right to WORK, it is NOT your right to STEAL from them just because you happen to own a company.
Why are conservatives so fucking lazy? Work for your own money, don't steal from the productive.
@AntiLazarus "Work for your own money" LMAO. Is this why liberals always want to take things from others? If you dont like the terms of employment somewhere, DONT WORK FOR THEM. Nobody is forcing you to work for an employer.
@AroundSun Liberals want you to pay your fair share. You think business owners' ability to leech off their employees was self-granted? Ha! How's the business climate in Somalia?
@AntiLazarus Fair share? Give me a break with your fucking bullshit. So sick of liberals...what is the fair share then huh??? how much??? at what cost?? and says who??? you? Courts police defense perioid. Article 1 section 8 and the tenth amendment of the constitution. We are a republic not a democracy libtard
@AroundSun Sorry shithead, you've got to work for SOMEBODY, cause you've got to eat. But everybody is the same. The system is rigged, and you're the only one who doesn't get it.
Quit your job at Wal Mart! Target will be much better!
@AroundSun Most liberals don't take things from others. Most rich people ARE liberals. That's another thing you don't get--not even the mega-rich whose boots you lick give a shit about your failed ideas.
HAHAHAHAHA then why do they need to force programs on people? Why cant they just create their own private charities and programs?? You fucking liberals are absolutely BRAINDEAD!!!
@AntiLazarus And yet, over and over again deregulation in developing countries continues to trump all of the social programs that the left throws at poverty. In a mere 30 years China has gone from over 80% of people living at under $1.25 per day to almost 10% in 2005 dollars. All of which is due to deregulation of agriculture and a massive boom in small business. You world view is rapidly becoming moot, socialists are being shoved aside in lieu of actual intellectuals.
@AntiLazarus me being richer is a sign that I have made the allocation of finite resources more efficient so as to allow the economy to produce more and/or higher quality products with the finite resources it has. And how rich I become is a measure of just how much more efficient my contribution has made the economy.
@AroundSun WRONG! Guess what? Lehman Bro. executives made more than doctors.
Guess who contributed more to society? Doctors! Hell, fast food workers contributed more to the economy than bankers did. The bankers nearly brought the whole fucking house down. At least when you pay a fast food joint, you get a burger.
The real answer is that certain peopel are in a position to leech off the economy, suck it's lifeblood out. Tell me how overdraft fees contribute to the economy.
@AntiLazarus "Does stimulus spending work? The data says no." YOURE AN IDIOT!!
Lehman Bro. executives made more than every doctor combined? Pff hahahahahaha....once again. YOURE AN IDIOT!! Go read the dailykos you fucking terd. People get rich from voluntary exchange. Think baseball players make too much? Then dont buy the tickets! Obviosuly they are paid a lot because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEM. You are stuck in every economic fallacy and myth that has ever existed.
@AroundSun The data? Oh contraire, my friend. The data is actually quite conclusive that it DOES work. You even gave the classic example--the US government's deficit-dinanced spending during WWII ended the Depression JUST LIKE Keynes said it would! This is an embarrassment that Libertarians have never lived down, as it proved that one the central planks of their ideology was hopelessly wrong. They have since forced themselves to forget it, so I'm not surprised you didn't know.
@AntiLazarus Its obvious that you have been so embarassed that you are just trying to scrounge together anything you can to try and save yourself. You were better off just accepting defeat. You actually believe in exploitation and every other economic myth and falacy ever created. Exploitation nonsense can be debunked very easily. Oh, you also think wars are good for an economy, and that WWII and insane spending ended the depression when it actually prolonged it. HHAHA I win you moron go away
@AntiLazarus I love how you are defeated on one topic and run to another. All of a sudden you ramble about something else LMAO. Hit and run liberals are like a bunh of water buffalo. They hear something over here and they all run that way, they hear something on the other side and they all run there. Once again, rather than address arguments and data, you simply ignore them and reassert the original falsity. "Tax increases raise revenues" HAHAHAHAHAHA "Exploitation" LMAO!!!
@AntiLazarus I'm not posting something we both know. Just shut the fuck up. If you want to see it so bad just google it moron. Wikipedia has it on the FIRST PAGE!!!! WOWWWW
You have been wrong and will continue to be wrong about everything. Why? Because you are a double talking naive liberal democrat and you think like one.
@AntiLazarus "You EXPLICITLY SAID the war spending ended the Depression"
Have never and would never make such a ridiculous statement. Did it really come to this? Are you really at the point where you have to put words in my mouth to make a statement and try to change the subject. How sad are you?
@AroundSun Speaking of being embarrassed, why won't you post the formula for GDP? Is it because you know that f you do so, you'll see big fat G for "government spending" in there, which would mean government spending BY DEFINITION increases GDP? Which would mean you were wrong about the most basic economic question in existence?
@AntiLazarus Oh yea, one more thing before you cry your little eyes out. Over the course of history, you will see that whether taxes are high or low, the govt collects about 18% of GDP regardless of the tax rate. So the best policy would be one that GROWS that pie, and that is low taxes + simplified tax code. YOU LOSE!!
"Hope Change Yes we can!! Obama is going to bring the change and the hope!! YAY!! I believe in politicians and messiahs in washington who cant even run a post office YAY"
@AroundSun What hole? You didn't say anything. "Bubble induced spending?" What spending? By whom? You haven't actually MADE ANY CLAIM here. But GDP certainly does NOT decline during bubbles. The decline of GDP is by definition a "recession." So are you now saying that a bubble is a recession?
Do you know where you are? What's your name? How many fingers am I showing?
@AntiLazarus You're hillarious because your whole basis of why things are the way they are is because "you said so". I give so much evidence and data and you simply say, WELL THIS IS WHY... You are so fucking braindead to begin with why would I ever take your word for something??? LMAO. Exploitation? Open your own business then, thats solved. Umm what else... GDP is decreased during periods of bubble induced spending. You aren't even intelligent enough to know what it means!
@AntiLazarus "Why are conservatives so fucking lazy? Work for your own money, don't steal from the productive."
HAHAHAHA LIBERAL HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST. Welfare fucking mooches sitting around. Tax and spend democrats. Who is stealing? Who is holding a gun to whos head and demanding money? You are absolutely brain dead son. "off the backs of workers" hahaha then quit!! or open your own company if you can generate demand for your production. WHAT AN IDIOT!!
@AroundSun Uh, actually, shithead, if you would even bother to flip on the news (let alone read actual economics texts), you would know that our current budget problems are mainly due to the fact that we DON'T tax and spend. We just spend. If we we would actually collect taxes occasionally, we could eliminate the deficit with only moderate cuts, and quickly reduce the debt as well.
But we wouldn't be able to let corporations steal from poor people anymore. Libertarians would be upset.
@AntiLazarus Fact is that you can not show me any period in which higher tax rates increased tax revenues. This is where you idiots are laughed at. The laffer curve proves this. If taxes were at 99%, businesses would just GO AWAY. THerefore no tax revenue. Same as if toothpaste was $1000, people just wouldn't buy it, or would look elsewhere. Why do you think many of our jobs move overseas? Listening to you say another word about eco is like listening to grandma talk about cars and engines
For the record, that was not MY response to your statement. That was the response of professional economists to the idea of the Laffer Curve. Kid, NOBODY believes the Laffer Curve anymore. I can EASILY give an example of increased tax rates providing more revenue: Ronald Fuckin' Reagan did it in 1982 when he passed TEFRA, increasing tax revenue. That was right after the 1981 Kemp-Roth tax cuts, which DECREASED revenue so much they had to come back in '82
@AroundSun Anyway, the REASON why higher tax rates INCREASE, not decrease revenue is that the people who actually PRODUCE things, the workers, have to work no matter WHAT the tax rate is. Lowering it simply allows the idle rich parasite owners to siphon more off the top. The workers get paid basically the same either way.
@AntiLazarus Simpleton..I simply showed how communist china improved during periods of deregulation. Instead of trying to argue my point, you make a ridiculous strawman statement with sarcasm. Oh liberals..sigh..when they cant prove something wrong, they try to attack....liberal animosity at its finest....
Unfortunately, I was once a liberal too...maybe someday you will learn that the president isnt commander in chief of the economy. re read the constitution and the federalist papers genius..
@AroundSun You now need a dictionary for TWO seperate words: one is "GDP", as you STILL have not ceased to dodge, Matrix-style, this very simple question. The other is "showed." You have NOWHERE showed anything, as you use no sources, and do not back up any of your claims with clear data.
Since you don't even know what GDP is, I HIGHLY doubt you have ANY specific knowledge of China's economy, which is heavily state-guided. Furthermore, "less regulation than Communist PRC" is not the free market
@AntiLazarus You ignor everything I have presented, claim that I have not offered any evidence (LOL) and then reassert the origninal falsity. How fucking pathetic are you kid?? You are just SOOO STEAMED because you have been SOO WRONG about EVERYTHING that you are now frantically trying to spew bullshit out your asshole shotgun style. Data + Historical facts and evidence > No data from a braindead moron. YOU LOSE!!! =)
@AroundSun By the way, did you also know that since 1979, when deregulation started around the world, that the average global growth rate has decreased from 3% to 1%? Surprise, surprise, the Libertarians were wrong again.
@AntiLazarus Yea I am really going to read the ten+ paragraphs you wrote me. I can already see they are filled with nothing but incoherent babble trying to save face because you get killed in a debate. FUCKING KILLED!!!
"does stimulus spending work? the data says no"
youre an idiot and you were proven wrong. now go cry to someone else because I do not want to fucking hear it.
Tax hikes do not increase tax revenues shit for brains, wheres your evidence?? NOWHERE!! HAHA, You are pathetic
@AroundSun WHERE have I been proven wrong? You're just a pussy who is DESPERATE to somehow convince me that I am wrong when you have not provided one SINGLE SHRED of evidence to back up your theories that were proven false over 100 years ago.
It's easy: if you have "proven" me wrong, repost it. Since you allegedly won that argument, why not just repost it?
Also answer this question: if you simply refuse to look at the UNCONTESTED FACTS I have shown you, why should I look at your stuff?
@AntiLazarus One of the great liberal misunderstandings is that Reagan's tax cuts caused the deficit. If you ever wonder where liberals come from they were the ones in math class that didn't pay attention.
Tax Revenues nearly doubled during Reagan's term in office, which had he and his all Democrat congress bothered to restrain their spending would have led to the elimination of the debt. But during the 1980s spending tripled. Done getting shitted on one statement after the next??
@AroundSun One of the great "misundestandings?" Oh, I see: those foolish liberals were looking at FACTS. That's the NUMBER 1 mistake that liberals make: caring about facts. The conservatives know that facts are whatever you want them to be! Just keep repeating yourself enough, and eventually, people believe you!
You might want to let Ronald Reagan in on this secret too, because EVEN HE thought the tax cuts caused the deficit. Why do you think he raised taxes the very next year?
@AntiLazarus Reagan had a spending problem. ughhh...you are such an idiot it is painful. You are desperately trying to save face and it is not working at all. You were better when you just stopped talking. I dont know why you keep coming back for more abuse
@AroundSun So, I see you whining and crying a lot, but are you actually going to SAY anything? You shot your mouth off AGAIN without checking to see if what you were saying is right, and you were humiliated yet again after I showed you that Laffer Curve is bullshit, Reagan's tax cuts caused a HUGE drop in revenue, and even Reagan himself admitted that they lost too much revenue, so he signed TEFRA. You don't even know what TEFRA was, do you?
@AntiLazarus Listen motherfucker, I dont have all day to sit around and babble with your sore loser ass. You are butthurt because you have been getting fucking DESTROYED on every idiotic statement you have made. All you can do is change subjects and desperately try to save face. You are a fucking LAUGHING STOCK. Reagans tax cuts doubled revenues, HE HAD A SPENDING PROBLEM. SPENDING. What don't you get. You dont cite anything you just TALK BULLSHIT. I give facts YOU DONT. YOU LOSE!!
@AroundSun Oh, so you DIDN'T look at my article and accompanying chart (or even the fucking Wikipedia entry, for Christ's sake?!) PROVING how Reagan LOST REVENUE by lowering taxes?
That's strange, that you would ignore a very relevant fact, RIGHT AFTER of accusing me of ignoring facts and giving no evidence.
@AntiLazarus You want surplus? You could just knock the military back into 1918 and we'd have a massive surplus!!
Fraud?? Listen little boy, you are a socialist moron. Nobody takes ANYTHING you say seriously. You aren't even a keynesian you are a straight up socialist living in lala land. People like you should be lined up and shot in the head.
Translation: PLEASE don't make me answer this question, because the answer will PROVE that I am fucking idiot who doesn't even know the basic definition of GDP."
Sorry asshole, you're not getting away with your blatant 9th grade level mistake here.
You can't dodge this question. It's been over a week now. What is GDP?
@AntiLazarus Man this argument has been debunked and finished for decades if not centuries. It is like beating a dead horse. This very notion is the reason our founders wanted LIMITED GOVERNMENT. Because when government gets too big, industrialists take it over. They then form a coalition against the consumers and the workers. They knew that when government was powerful enough to give people things, then political parties and special interests would squander for the political levers of power.
Son, apparently you don't get it. This is going nowhere until you quit being a pussy. There can be no debate if you keep dodging every question I ask.
@AntiLazarus Just because your exploitation nonsense has been shot to shit, no need to try and act like you are entitled to other peoples property. Of course a moron like yourself doesnt believe in private property. Workers don't pay overhead shit for brains, WORKERS ARE OVERHEAD. You have never been in business in your life and don't understand jack shit. Just the idea that you think the federal government can run everything (when in reality they can't run a fucking post office) is hillarious
Here's what you said: "Exploitation is not true, lol!"
That's your "proof?" When the Wall Street bankers who caused this recession get paid billions while the people who actually make the country run get booted out of their houses and file for bankruptcy?
lol, "shot to shit." You really are too much. It's so funny, because it's obvious you haven't so much as read a newspaper article about this recession.
@AntiLazarus "When the Wall Street bankers who caused this recession get paid billions while the people who actually make the country run get booted out of their houses and file for bankruptcy?"
You think this is an argument for worker exploitation? You don't even understand your own myth. That has nothing to do with employees receiving a share in their company.. Oh boy.....
@AroundSun Uh, yes it does, shit-for-brains. I'll hold your hand through this. The robbers who loot from the public treasury are only able to do so because they are able to buy government, which they are able to do because they STEAL THEIR WORKERS' MONEY. Well, to be completely accurate, they are given the stolen money by others, who then use it to suck out more stolen money.
But, if you think Congress votes to print money, then you wouldn't understand this.
@AntiLazarus Tell me genius,how are we going to sustain the situation we are in? How are we going to spend even more money on more stupid programs? How are we going to get out of debt? How are we going to pay future retirees? You have no fucking clue! Idiot shitheads like you got us into this bullshit because of your social nonsense horse shit that keeps people generations deep in welfare and entitlements. Weve ran out of everyone elses money, now we are running out of money that doesnt exist
@AroundSun Figure out GDP, son: we will move on to the real stuff, but only once you've passed Economics 101. Just grow some balls, swallow some pride, and stop dodging the question, and then we'll move on.
@AroundSun Meanwhile, a company gives you NOTHING, except what you give yourself through work, but for some reason, you think they are owed tribute. All they do is give a worker the permission to SUPPORT HIMSELF, and give him nothing, but skim off the top, but the WORKER should be THANKFUL these mighty men have been kind enough to ALLOW them to work.
Fuck you and everything you stand for, you fascist.
@AntiLazarus LOL oh what, you believe in "EXPLOITATION" hahahahaaaa...If you dont need your employer to work, then open your own business. Simple as that. Youre just antoher socialist piece of shit who doesnt understand how the world works. You think an appointed few at the top should run our lives from cradle to grave simply because you cant handle freedom and your own life sucks because youre not willing to put in work. You want to consume without producing. Sorry faggot!!
@AroundSun Uh, dumbass, if EVERYONE opened a business, we'd have too fucking many businesses. You only need so many. Whether the right likes it or not, we NEED workers, because corporations don't do shit. The rich don't do shit.
@AntiLazarus "Uh, dumbass, if EVERYONE opened a business, we'd have too fucking many businesses. You only need so many" hahahahahahahaha keep going, this is great. "THe rich dont do shit" really? Sooo bill gates hasnt contributed to the economy?? you are digging your own grave again.
@AntiLazarus Since the presidency of Woodrow Wilson, the Federal Government has always spent more money than it has collected in tax revenue. The additional money has been provided by borrowing. When the borrowed money has become due, the government simply borrowed more money, often at higher interest rates, then used the newly borrowed money to pay back the lenders who came calling. Any middle schooler capable of understanding basic math knows that this simply can't last. 130+ TRILLION!!!
@AntiLazarus Everyone loves to talk about the CLINTON SURPLUS but rarely ANYONE ever takes it head on. The tax revenue increases from the .com boom had nothing to do with it right?? The surplus from gutting the military in the 90's? You probably were just fucking born you clown. Clinton didn't leave a surplus but a $1.4 trillion debt over eight years. He borrowed from Social Security, part of a $113 Trillion unfunded liability, to make it seem he left a surplus.
@AroundSun Can someone change that baby's diaper? He's crying, I think he's soiled himself.
Oh, wait! It's just a butthurt crybaby Libertarian fuckwit, who doesn't even know what GDP is, whining and making excuses because someone called him out on his bullshit.
Want to mail you a book so you can find out what GDP is?
@AntiLazarus More talking to the audience, proof of your degrading metnal state. Nobody is talking back! "The Postal Service warned again that it is likely to run out of money and default on some financial obligations at the end of its fiscal year in September when it surpasses its legal borrowing limit with the U.S. Treasury."
Everyone knows the post office is in the shitter, of course, you try to say otherwise. You also said SS had a surplus LMAO. AND that govt spending always increases GDP
@AroundSun Haha, you're laughing at me for saying 3 true things. Hilarious!
First, government spending DOES ALWAYS INCREASE GDP, and nothing you say says otherwise until you grow some balls and post the formula.
Second, just because the USPS has had a bad year doesn't mean doesn't mean it isn't a well run company. Hilarious. You ignore decades of profit and focus on a bad year caused by a decrease in mail volume. You're like a global warming denier who thinks it shouldn't snow in winter.
@AntiLazarus There is nothing left to say to you. 7,000 pages of new regulations each year, government monopolies, bailouts of the banking industry, a federal reserve banking system, government buying up homes and nationalizing failing businesses, the highest top marginal tax rates in THE WORLD. The biggest deficit in the world!!! Free market!! It's more like? the USSA!! Rome is burning and you liberals sit around and think of ways to coverup the 130+ trillion we're in cuz of socialism!
@AroundSun There is one thing left to say: what is the definition of GDP? Include the formula please.
Why do you continue, after more than a week, to dodge this basic question? You're clearly scared of the question, because if you were really correct, as you claim, then you wouldn't mind to tell me. Enough is enough. You cannot run away any longer. Just answer the question.
@AntiLazarus So im done teaching you how the world works. Id rather talk to a wall. You bring no arguments, and your childish mentality is annoying. I can tell you are a loser who sits home and never gets any pussy. Girls dont like welfare cases. Just remember how bad you got your fucking ASS KICKED and maybe you can learn something to. Fair-well dickbag!!
@AroundSun See ya! Not sure where you're going, but hopefully it's a place where you can take a nice book to read! Preferably an economics book! Maybe summer vacation will be enough time for you figure out why government spending, like any spending, raises GDP!
@AroundSun Turns out the Libertarian strategy of yelling: "Freedom!" "Tyranny!" "Federal Reserve!" is not enough to win an argument with someone who knows the facts.
Another Libertarian who lost to a Communist. Funny how often this happ
Yea realitys known liberal bias is that of failed governments and power in the hands of too few. Reality has a libertarian bias, which are REAL liberals, classic constitutional limited government liberals. Not this modern socialist liberal bullshit that HAS NEVER WORKED ANYWHERE YOU FUCKING MORON!! HAHAHA....Doing the same thing over again, expecting different results. Insanity. Gullible morons who fall for political rhetoric, propaganda, cliches, and campaign slogans. How stupid can you be?
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun It's never worked anywhere, UNLESS you read history books, which Libertarians refuse to do. In which case it has worked many places. You even told me so yourself, but you were too stupid to know that's what you were saying, when you told me deficit spending ended the Great Depression.
It's painfully clear that you're just making everything up as you go, desperately hoping that I'll go away and quit embarrassing you.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
Stimulus spending is like trying to fill a pool by drawing water from one end of the pool and pouring it into the other.
AroundSun 7 months ago
"the first round of TARP was released in October. But, the Federal Reserve could not wait. It began pumping reserves into the banking system in the latter part of September increasing Reserve Bank Credit outstanding from about $890 billion on September 10, 2008 to $1.5 trillion on October 8, $1.9 trillion on October 29, and $2.2 trillion on November 19. " -John Mason
AroundSun 7 months ago
Michael Moore versus Thomas Sowell
Naomi Klein vs. Milton Friedman
LMAO!!!!
Ron Paul vs. Obama (that debate would be pulverizing. Obama would shit his pants and lie.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Ron Paul? Haha! Ron Paul is the biggest idiot in the braindead House. Even the dumbass American public knows how full of shit Paul is. That's why he doesn't have a chance of winning the presidency. I'd be surprised if that piece of shit was smart enough to tie his own shoes. Let me guess, you and him use Velcro. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
130+ TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT AND UNFUNDED LIABILITIES !!
SOCIALISM AT WORK!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
Lots were a little puke liberal dirtbag like you once, but then they grew older (well some did) Some morons like you still believe in words such as HOPE and CHANGE and AL GORE!!! How fucking pathetic really. You remind me of 9/11 conspiracy morons and religious people. You shitheads are really no different. Do you believe in Santa Claus too? Have fun being poor! and losing debates!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Oh, how adorable! After figuring out that no matter what he does, he is not going to win this argument, and none of his dirty debate tricks will distract his intellectual superior, he's going to run away and pout!
Well, anything to avoid thinking. Wouldn't want to make a Libertarian's brain hurt.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
Liberals suck off of the system so they won't be the ones paying for it...it
goes along with their cheese. you believe in CAREER POLITICIANS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
YOU AUTOMATICALLY LOSE IN LIFE. PERIOD
AroundSun 7 months ago
Look at the numbers you moron. Taxing the rich for every penny they ever earned won't put a tiny dent in the deficit. now get lost
AroundSun 7 months ago
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@AroundSun"Look at the numbers you moron. Taxing the rich for every penny they ever earned won't put a tiny dent in the deficit. now get lost"
lol, that's so CUTE! He's telling ME to look at the numbers! He's telling ME to get lost!
Kid, you really are a leftist's DREAM. You're a self-refuting conservatives idiot. I don't even have to try to prove you wrong, you do it yourself!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AroundSun But of course, as usual I HAVE looked at the numbers, and I will now share them with you, who trusts his corporate masters to tell him the truth:
Just the 400 richest Americans have a net worth over $1.27 trillion. That's only 400 people, yet it's roughly 8% or 9% of the ENTIRE federal debt. If you don't believe me, here's the link (remove parentheses):
tinyurl(.)com/4dq84lx
Anything else you want to be wrong about today?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AroundSun Here's something else for you, kid:
"As we’ve pointed out before, thanks to the historically low 15% tax rate on long term capital gains, the uberrich pay a lower effective federal income tax rate than ordinary rich folks, who get more of their money from salary and other ordinary income, taxed at a top 35%."
tinyurl(.)com/3k3k8vh
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
Wrong. The government didn't lose money because they didn't have it to begin with. When the government spends more then they take in, they have to borrow to make up the difference. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they're spending too much?
Probably not. You're one of those useful idiots that believes the government can do no wrong.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun NO, YOU FUCKING SHITHEAD. IF YOU SPEND THE SAME AMOUNT, BUT TAKE IN LESS MONEY, IT'S THE SAME AS TAKING IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AND SPENDING MORE.
So NOW, in ADDITION to NOT knowing that Bush 2 increased the debt more than ANY other president in history, including Obama right now, NOT knowing that a bubble and recession are NOT the same things, and NOT knowing what GDP is, you now are UNAWARE that subtracting a positive number and adding a negative are the same thing. Amazing.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You have been wrong about: Minimum wage, tax increases, stimulus spending, GDP historical data, taxing a producer, private sector vs government efficiency, EXPLOITATION (LMAO), quantitative easing, inflation, as well as simple supply and demand (too many businesses!! lmao!!)
Go to bed child
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Ah, more fantasies I see. How would you even know that I was wrong even if I had talked about those things?
You don't even know what GDP is!!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You just want things to work the way you want them to work. You want free money without working. That is all you scumbag socialist pieces of shit care about. Socialism killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century, don't you faggots ever learn?? Rationing, poor quality, and everyone being EQUALLY poor. "Well hey, atleast they're equal!"
You done yet??? GOOD
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Waaahhh!!!!! The bad man is still asking me questions I can't answer!!
Change the subject!! Quick!!
GDP please, you lying sack of shit.
Understand that this won't stop until you look reality in the face and admit the truth. You've been beaten, BADLY, and I will continue to remind you until you learn your lesson. The fact that you have done NOTHING but dodge questions, attempt to change the subject, and hurl insults tells you all you need to know.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Then why are you so afraid to look at the facts? You're absolute TERRIFIED of learning anything about economics. You've been on the run from the definition of GDP for a week now.
Son, if your argument hinges on disputing a DEFINITION, especially of something like GDP, then you've already lost.
I'll put you and Mr. Clinton next to each other at my next get together. There, you two can debate the definition of common words, like "is" and "GDP" lol.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "Then why are you so afraid to look at the facts? You're absolute TERRIFIED of learning anything about economics"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
you must have learned so much living in your mothers basement
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun HAHA, another desperate non-answer.
Dance around that question! It's a hard one! What is GDP?
lol
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus I have made no mistakes, the GDP formula has been discussed, and you admitted that you were wrong "maybe i am wrong" your exact words. And you were SO fucking wrong it was pathetic. The average economic decline after federal spending bills is not growth LOL. But a little whiny puke like yourself would think so. Look at all your yelling. I can make you dance just by typing.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Well then quote the post!! You and I KNOW you have NOT posted them formula. I have, but that it not what I am asking for, because when I post it, you simply pretend not to see it.
If YOU post it, you cannot continue to dodge the question, as you have been doing for over a week, trying to cover up your asinine statement that "government spending DECREASES GDP," when this is contradicted by the very definition.
Why else would you make so many excuses to get out of posting it?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus " in ADDITION to NOT knowing that Bush 2 increased the debt more than ANY other president in history, including Obama right now"
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMFAO!!!!!!
Just stop, you are beyond embarrassing your self. You give me douche chills oh my god youre so fucking illiterate. Everyone is laughing at you.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Everyone is laughing at me...why? You don't say.
In fact, these days, your posts don't say ANYTHING. They just contain some juvenile insults and a vague insinuation that I'm wrong.
For a guy who CLAIMS to have given me all this proof, and to be SO smart, you don't post many numbers or facts. In fact, NONE that I can see.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Who was it that didn't pay attention in math class again? To NOT KNOW that x-1 and x+ (-1) are the same thing, and to NOT KNOW 5 trillion is bigger than 4 trillion really gets into short bus territory.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus obama is bush on mega-steroids!! $4 TRILLION to the national debt in his first 2 years!! That's an increase of the natl debt of 40% in less than 2 years!! and you think we are in this from Bush tax cuts! You need to quit suckin the Kool-aid off of harry reid's titties.. You would make a perfect liberal politician. Great for ruining our nation, bankrupting our country, and making us third world with hyperinflation.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Yes, but when that $4 trillion was caused by a lack of tax revenue due to the Republican-caused recession, that is Obama's fault how?
lol, you're so clueless.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus This is great how you try to disprove gravity and debunk factual statements that have been around for decades and decades. Like you are creating your own economic science or something. Inflation is the increase in the money supply. Price increases are a result of inflation not inflation itself. The amount of shit that you are dead wrong about is unreal.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun *WRONG*
Inflation can't happen unless that money is actually SPENT, but when DEMAND (you do know what demand is, right?) is TOO LOW, and NOT EVERYONE IS SPENDING their money, inflation happens no faster than usual.
You don't understand that an economy in recession is different than a healthy economy, lmfao. This is why Keynes sails right over the reads of Libertarian fuckwits.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Rather than address arguments and data, this asshole simply ignores them and reasserts the original falsity.
AroundSun 7 months ago
Just as true today as it was then. /watch?v=9ztaZq2Q5aU
AroundSun 8 months ago
The US literally has the highest corporate marginal tax rate in the world. You will not pay in a lifetime what the richest in this country pay. The lions share of the income taxes.By the way, you want to raise corporate taxes even more? All you are going to do is raise the price of the goods you buy. Simple as that. Fucking liberals are notorious for not understanding unintended consequences because they cant think outside the box for two seconds. They believe in a centrally planned utopia
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun "The US literally has the highest corporate marginal tax rate in the world."
Yes, but our tax code is also littered with exemptions that reduce the EFFECTIVE rate (hint for economic illiterates: this means the rate you ACTUALLY pay). Here's an example.
You know General Electric? One of those poor, OPPRESSED companies STRUGGLING against the onerous corporate tax rate? Guess how much tax they had to pay in 2010? $1 billion? $10 billion?
Oh right, it was $0. They paid nothing.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Here's the link, since you didn't know about this.
And no, they were not alone.
"But the gub'mint's STEALING their hard work!1"
lmfao
tinyurl(.)com/4jdblae
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus WHy didnt htey pay anything shit for brains? Because their one of Owe Bamas biggest contributors moron. Even if they were taxed high, a simpleton moronic liberal like yourself believes that corporations actually pay taxes!! HAHA. Even if it were at 50%, THEY STILL WOULDNT PAY IT. Prices rise and wages fall. Youre an idiot!! And if the government was to actually collect any of this, who spends that money more efficiently? Thats right, the business not the govt
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Um, you realize you just totally destroyed YOUR OWN argument with this post, right?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
"The actions of both the Federal Reserve and Congress in the current crisis have been hurtful. Certainly these policies can create a short term boost to the economy like we are currently seeing, but they are not sustainable policies in the long run. Eventually, Congress has to cut spending or raise taxes, and the Fed has to raise interest rates or risk inflation. At that point the unsustainability of what we are doing will be revealed. The fed has lost all credibility on wall street
AroundSun 8 months ago
With the 'Fractional Reserve Banking' principle. $1T turns into $10T or $100T or? whatever the criminal banksters decide on. Our economy is finished. All those greenbacks will be worthless once hyperinflation hits. Can't print endless trillions out of thin air and expect the economy to survive. Zimbabwe was printing $100,000,000,000,000 notes before they finally collapsed.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Oh goody! Here's ANOTHER thing you didn't know:
printing money DOES NOT CAUSE INFLATION UNLESS THERE IS EXCESS DEMAND in the economy. Think about it (I know that's asking a lot, but humor me): if I print a trillion dollars, I have increased the money supply. If I then shove it in a closet, will it cause inflation? The conservative answer: yes. The sane answer: no, because people are not using it to make purchases.
Glad I could teach you something else.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus The printed money isn't shoved in a closet you dumb fuck LOL. Oh my god you are so dumb it is unfathomable. If you think we can print money out of thin air without reverse side effects, you are BEYOND DUMB. Do you think the bailout mone was shoved in a closet?? LMAO. Printing money directly causes inflation, rising prices are a side effect of inflation not inflation itself. Are you still trying to argue that spending doesn't decrease GDP EVERY FUCKING YEAR?!! HAHAHAHA
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun When the printed money is hoarded and not used due either to deflation or to fear of losing's one's job, then it IS basically in a closet, you dumb fuck.
That's why you're so fucking hilarious. You complain about the recession, but you don't understand that the recession means there is a LACK OF DEMAND in the economy, which means that printing money will NOT cause inflation, because it's not all being spent.
What a shithead.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus HOARDED????? HAHAHAHA WHERE DO THEY PUT IT UNDER THEIR PILLOW??? HAHAHAHAHA
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Haha, thanks for this post. "Hoard" is actually a pretty common word in economic literature dealing with recessions. The fact that you're unfamiliar with it tells me (and everyone else) you're ALSO unfamiliar with economic literature.
"I have a degree in econ, but I've never read a book on econ and I don't know what GDP is.'
rotfl
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
What about todays spending habits?
AroundSun 11 months ago
losr
iphoneguy2012 1 year ago
he looks like a flippen bobble head...ya nodding will make people like you more.
bobby13bobby 1 year ago
He speaks the right words and I do know both sides love to look like the good guy and never cut, but what I think people want is the "bad guy" that will cut and cut deep. Placing blame isn't helpful because it isn't forward looking. Hopefully, the new congress will be able to take him to task and put aside partisanship and reduce spending going forward. It has to be done, there is no other alternative.
nmud 1 year ago
Spending more to get more money to give to people that will use it to pay for bills or keep. Yeah, only liberals would think that this much money is the best idea, and only they would want to spend more.
Fallout3Follower 1 year ago
Did any of you actually listen to what he had to say? Also, "stimulus spending" is an accepted form of economic recovery, and has been done before. There are others, like lowering taxes. Both have advantages and disadvantages. You can't logically complain that our debt increased because that's the DEFINITION of a stimulus. Of course it increased. At least now we have a plan to pay for it, unlike Iraq. Open yourself to sources other than FOX and MSNBC and make logical conclusions for yourself.
silverdonut 1 year ago
Of course I meant " The boiling frog Syndrome"
7dietrich 1 year ago
@ trojone 8, He is smart leading Americans exactly were he plans to. Google the "boiling frog theory"
7dietrich 1 year ago
i am going to make dinner.
yonsoon 1 year ago
when can we overthrow this idiot!!!!
thevirtualinstructor 1 year ago
He thinks he's so smart, lol!
trojone8 1 year ago
CONSIDERING YOU DONT LIKE OVERSPENDING, I AM HAPPY THAT YOU WONT VOTE FOR OBAMA IN THE NEXT ELECTION CONSIDERING HE WILL SPEND 3x AS MUCH AS BUSH, your welfare checks are now worth less due to the new inflation, inflation that went to paying for bankers bailouts, great choice for president, and by the way, bush sucks ass too
Enjoy floating in space obamanaut, enjoy poverty as well, your voted for it.
999silverrush 1 year ago
@999silverrush " inflation that went to paying for bankers bailouts, great choice for president, and by the way, bush sucks ass too"
Apparently you don't realize that it was Bush that gave the bankers the payouts... but go back to watching Fox they'll be happy to tell you more of what to think.
Obamas deficit spending is actually lower than Bushes in his final year of office... clueless one.
pmccullo123 1 year ago
LOL HE CAN"T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
999silverrush 1 year ago
Thank God Americans didn't turn on FDR while he was struggling to end the Depression. They had patience back then while FDR increased deficit spending to fight the Depression, probably because the Depression had been going on for three years before FDR was elected. Today, we're spoiled brats, unable - or unwilling - to accept the reality of this economic crisis. And now we're going to turn Congress back over to the GOP, the very party that nearly wrecked our economy?
Towncrier123 1 year ago 3
@Towncrier123 FDR prolonged the recession he didn't end it. One person can't end a recession or depression. It is not the presidents job to run the economy. For every 1% increase in stimuls spending we lost $4,000 GDP per person. Tax raises and decreases are irrelevant to GDP % of tax revenue. We lost more jobs with the stimulus than if we had done nothing at all. Most of that money was given to banks and special interests, it always is. Too big to fail is nonsense. It's also unconstitutional.
AroundSun 11 months ago
@AroundSun The presidient's strategies can set the country on a correct course or worsen the crisis. Obama learned the lesson from FDR and attacked the recession EARLY with massive amounts of deficit spending. FDR cut spending in 1937 to appease Republicans, and the economy fell into a double-dip recession. It wasn't ready to stand on its own yet. It took the massive deficit spending needed to equip our military to fight the Axis that finally pulled us out of that nightmare.
Towncrier123 11 months ago 2
@Towncrier123 Yes, it can, but it doesnt. It makes things worse, usually in unintended ways. That doesn't make it constitutional. Wars do not boost the economy, that is a broken window fallacy. FDR prolonged the recession, the federal reserve created the bubbles which burst. Keynesians always assume that when their remedies fail the dosage of medicine is too low - and never consider that the medicine is itself the problem. The economy does not need to be stimulated, but liberated instead.
AroundSun 11 months ago
@Towncrier123 The simple reason government spending fails to end recessions is that Congress does not have a vault of money waiting to be distributed. Every dollar Congress “injects” into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new income, and therefore no new demand, is created. They are merely redistributed from one group of people to another. Congress cannot create new purchasing power out of thin air. Problem is, we're still broke from the first new deal.
AroundSun 11 months ago
@AroundSun So in other words, the economy's been legally dead since Hoover and a GOP-led Congress were in power in 1929 and it's been on life support since?
Towncrier123 11 months ago
@Towncrier123 Why don't you take a look at our 15 digit debt and unfunded liabilities to answer that question. This crisis can´t be managed, we need the free market. You´ve got these cronies in Washington, they are like little kids with a chemistry set, and they keep on throwing these chemicals together, trying one thing after an other, they hope they are going to stumble on a miracle, but they are going to blow us all up! So, the fact is, that printing paper money doesn't create wealth.
AroundSun 11 months ago
@AroundSun " Why don't you take a look at our 15 digit debt and unfunded liabilities to answer that question. This crisis can´t be managed, we need the free market."
HAHAHA!! The market is what got us into this mess to begin with. It's adhering to the free market that's allowed all those corporations to steal from their employees with one hand and steal from the treasury with the other. The REAL workers of America lose both ways. They wouldn't need so much government help if they had money.
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus Capitalism is a system which lets you trade with someone not steal from someone. Lets see, who is greedy? A producer of goods and services that people want and/or need? Only receiving money voluntarily through mutual consent? Or the government stealing your money through force and coercion for political gain? You are ass backwards and are the typical unreachable left. Political fanboy who neglects facts and truths to side with politicians that dont care about him.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Oh yes, those private companies, who control EVERYTHING about your job, and all of terms of your employement, are only voluntary, but the BIG BAD GUB'MINT (by the way, feel free to leave the country at any time), is "stealing" from you. After all, what did they do for you? You don't need their stinkin' roads, or police that give you safe neighborhoods, or good business climate caused by regulation, enforcements of contracts, etc. You don't need their courts. They don't do anything!
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus Yes, you do not have a right to work for me simply because I own a company. Who the hell are you. Liberals think they have a right to someone elses shit ALL THE TIME. Here we go with the typical roads, police, etc...Yes, the government has a list of things they are supposed to run. Read the constitution sometime anti american scum. We live in a republic not a democracy....
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Who gives a shit about working for YOU? People have a right to WORK, it is NOT your right to STEAL from them just because you happen to own a company.
Why are conservatives so fucking lazy? Work for your own money, don't steal from the productive.
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus "Work for your own money" LMAO. Is this why liberals always want to take things from others? If you dont like the terms of employment somewhere, DONT WORK FOR THEM. Nobody is forcing you to work for an employer.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Liberals want you to pay your fair share. You think business owners' ability to leech off their employees was self-granted? Ha! How's the business climate in Somalia?
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus Fair share? Give me a break with your fucking bullshit. So sick of liberals...what is the fair share then huh??? how much??? at what cost?? and says who??? you? Courts police defense perioid. Article 1 section 8 and the tenth amendment of the constitution. We are a republic not a democracy libtard
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Sorry shithead, you've got to work for SOMEBODY, cause you've got to eat. But everybody is the same. The system is rigged, and you're the only one who doesn't get it.
Quit your job at Wal Mart! Target will be much better!
*sarcasm lost on Libertarians*
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Most liberals don't take things from others. Most rich people ARE liberals. That's another thing you don't get--not even the mega-rich whose boots you lick give a shit about your failed ideas.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus " Most rich people ARE liberals"
HAHAHAHAHA then why do they need to force programs on people? Why cant they just create their own private charities and programs?? You fucking liberals are absolutely BRAINDEAD!!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus And yet, over and over again deregulation in developing countries continues to trump all of the social programs that the left throws at poverty. In a mere 30 years China has gone from over 80% of people living at under $1.25 per day to almost 10% in 2005 dollars. All of which is due to deregulation of agriculture and a massive boom in small business. You world view is rapidly becoming moot, socialists are being shoved aside in lieu of actual intellectuals.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun lol, yeah, China. Great example of free market success!!
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus me being richer is a sign that I have made the allocation of finite resources more efficient so as to allow the economy to produce more and/or higher quality products with the finite resources it has. And how rich I become is a measure of just how much more efficient my contribution has made the economy.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun WRONG! Guess what? Lehman Bro. executives made more than doctors.
Guess who contributed more to society? Doctors! Hell, fast food workers contributed more to the economy than bankers did. The bankers nearly brought the whole fucking house down. At least when you pay a fast food joint, you get a burger.
The real answer is that certain peopel are in a position to leech off the economy, suck it's lifeblood out. Tell me how overdraft fees contribute to the economy.
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus "Does stimulus spending work? The data says no." YOURE AN IDIOT!!
Lehman Bro. executives made more than every doctor combined? Pff hahahahahaha....once again. YOURE AN IDIOT!! Go read the dailykos you fucking terd. People get rich from voluntary exchange. Think baseball players make too much? Then dont buy the tickets! Obviosuly they are paid a lot because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEM. You are stuck in every economic fallacy and myth that has ever existed.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun The data? Oh contraire, my friend. The data is actually quite conclusive that it DOES work. You even gave the classic example--the US government's deficit-dinanced spending during WWII ended the Depression JUST LIKE Keynes said it would! This is an embarrassment that Libertarians have never lived down, as it proved that one the central planks of their ideology was hopelessly wrong. They have since forced themselves to forget it, so I'm not surprised you didn't know.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Its obvious that you have been so embarassed that you are just trying to scrounge together anything you can to try and save yourself. You were better off just accepting defeat. You actually believe in exploitation and every other economic myth and falacy ever created. Exploitation nonsense can be debunked very easily. Oh, you also think wars are good for an economy, and that WWII and insane spending ended the depression when it actually prolonged it. HHAHA I win you moron go away
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Oh, really, exploitation can be debunked? Look OUT THE FUCKING WINDOW, dumbass.
1. Bankers and investors create the housing bubble and financial crisis and torpedo the world economy.
2. Millions of Americans are laid off, lose their homes, and file for bankruptcy.
3. Bankers and investors make MORE MONEY THAN THEY EVER HAVE BEFORE.
How do you think that happens? And how exactly are the rich being inconvenienced? No, exploitation cannot SIMPLY be proved. It CANNOT BE DENIED.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus I love how you are defeated on one topic and run to another. All of a sudden you ramble about something else LMAO. Hit and run liberals are like a bunh of water buffalo. They hear something over here and they all run that way, they hear something on the other side and they all run there. Once again, rather than address arguments and data, you simply ignore them and reassert the original falsity. "Tax increases raise revenues" HAHAHAHAHAHA "Exploitation" LMAO!!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Defeated on one topic and run away? Hmmm.....you mean like, I don't know, GDP?!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP DODGING THE QUESTION. WHAT'S THE FORMULA FOR GDP?
Why are you so scared of this?
By the way, are you aware that you didn't actually challenge anything I had to say? I guess you agree I'm right.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus I'm not posting something we both know. Just shut the fuck up. If you want to see it so bad just google it moron. Wikipedia has it on the FIRST PAGE!!!! WOWWWW
You have been wrong and will continue to be wrong about everything. Why? Because you are a double talking naive liberal democrat and you think like one.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Haha, now you're AGAIN lying about what you said earlier after you discovered how insanely stupid it was.
You EXPLICITLY SAID the war spending ended the Depression, but NOW you're saying it prolonged it. Well which is it?
By the way, are you still dodging the GDP question? Have you figured it out yet, or do you still not know what it is?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "You EXPLICITLY SAID the war spending ended the Depression"
Have never and would never make such a ridiculous statement. Did it really come to this? Are you really at the point where you have to put words in my mouth to make a statement and try to change the subject. How sad are you?
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Speaking of being embarrassed, why won't you post the formula for GDP? Is it because you know that f you do so, you'll see big fat G for "government spending" in there, which would mean government spending BY DEFINITION increases GDP? Which would mean you were wrong about the most basic economic question in existence?
Are you stupid, a coward, both, or what?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Oh yea, one more thing before you cry your little eyes out. Over the course of history, you will see that whether taxes are high or low, the govt collects about 18% of GDP regardless of the tax rate. So the best policy would be one that GROWS that pie, and that is low taxes + simplified tax code. YOU LOSE!!
"Hope Change Yes we can!! Obama is going to bring the change and the hope!! YAY!! I believe in politicians and messiahs in washington who cant even run a post office YAY"
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "does stimulus spending work? the data says no"
GDP DECREASES DURING PERIODS OF BUBBLE INDUCED SPENDING. ALWAYS HAS, ALWAYS WILL. Are you still going to try to dig yourself out of THAT hole???
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun What hole? You didn't say anything. "Bubble induced spending?" What spending? By whom? You haven't actually MADE ANY CLAIM here. But GDP certainly does NOT decline during bubbles. The decline of GDP is by definition a "recession." So are you now saying that a bubble is a recession?
Do you know where you are? What's your name? How many fingers am I showing?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You're hillarious because your whole basis of why things are the way they are is because "you said so". I give so much evidence and data and you simply say, WELL THIS IS WHY... You are so fucking braindead to begin with why would I ever take your word for something??? LMAO. Exploitation? Open your own business then, thats solved. Umm what else... GDP is decreased during periods of bubble induced spending. You aren't even intelligent enough to know what it means!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Translation: you're right, and I don't know how to respond, so I'll just insult you!
Yay conservatism!!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You and hillary clinton can keep yapping about the rich paying taxes. Its not going to get you anywhere. HOPE!! CHANGE!! YES WE CAN!!!
LMAO....You believe in politicians and the bs they manufacture and spew to get your vote, youre a fucking idiot.....
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "Why are conservatives so fucking lazy? Work for your own money, don't steal from the productive."
HAHAHAHA LIBERAL HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST. Welfare fucking mooches sitting around. Tax and spend democrats. Who is stealing? Who is holding a gun to whos head and demanding money? You are absolutely brain dead son. "off the backs of workers" hahaha then quit!! or open your own company if you can generate demand for your production. WHAT AN IDIOT!!
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Uh, actually, shithead, if you would even bother to flip on the news (let alone read actual economics texts), you would know that our current budget problems are mainly due to the fact that we DON'T tax and spend. We just spend. If we we would actually collect taxes occasionally, we could eliminate the deficit with only moderate cuts, and quickly reduce the debt as well.
But we wouldn't be able to let corporations steal from poor people anymore. Libertarians would be upset.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You want to get mutilated again with pure logic???
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Wow, China as an example of free market wonders! You forgot the USSR as a great example of free market success!!
lol, so not only do you not understand economics, you don't know any history either! What a surprise, lmao!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Fact is that you can not show me any period in which higher tax rates increased tax revenues. This is where you idiots are laughed at. The laffer curve proves this. If taxes were at 99%, businesses would just GO AWAY. THerefore no tax revenue. Same as if toothpaste was $1000, people just wouldn't buy it, or would look elsewhere. Why do you think many of our jobs move overseas? Listening to you say another word about eco is like listening to grandma talk about cars and engines
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun HAHAHAHA!!! The Laffer Curve!
For the record, that was not MY response to your statement. That was the response of professional economists to the idea of the Laffer Curve. Kid, NOBODY believes the Laffer Curve anymore. I can EASILY give an example of increased tax rates providing more revenue: Ronald Fuckin' Reagan did it in 1982 when he passed TEFRA, increasing tax revenue. That was right after the 1981 Kemp-Roth tax cuts, which DECREASED revenue so much they had to come back in '82
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You send me some tax revenue ESTIMATE nonsense without taking into consideration the SPENDING side!!! GOD you are an idiot!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun If you want the full data from the Treasury, here is the link, simply remove parentheses:
tinyurl(.)com/65r8f84
If you don't want to dig through all the numbers (which I somehow suspect you do not), the Wikipedia article on TEFRA says the same thing.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Anyway, the REASON why higher tax rates INCREASE, not decrease revenue is that the people who actually PRODUCE things, the workers, have to work no matter WHAT the tax rate is. Lowering it simply allows the idle rich parasite owners to siphon more off the top. The workers get paid basically the same either way.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Simpleton..I simply showed how communist china improved during periods of deregulation. Instead of trying to argue my point, you make a ridiculous strawman statement with sarcasm. Oh liberals..sigh..when they cant prove something wrong, they try to attack....liberal animosity at its finest....
Unfortunately, I was once a liberal too...maybe someday you will learn that the president isnt commander in chief of the economy. re read the constitution and the federalist papers genius..
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun You now need a dictionary for TWO seperate words: one is "GDP", as you STILL have not ceased to dodge, Matrix-style, this very simple question. The other is "showed." You have NOWHERE showed anything, as you use no sources, and do not back up any of your claims with clear data.
Since you don't even know what GDP is, I HIGHLY doubt you have ANY specific knowledge of China's economy, which is heavily state-guided. Furthermore, "less regulation than Communist PRC" is not the free market
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You ignor everything I have presented, claim that I have not offered any evidence (LOL) and then reassert the origninal falsity. How fucking pathetic are you kid?? You are just SOOO STEAMED because you have been SOO WRONG about EVERYTHING that you are now frantically trying to spew bullshit out your asshole shotgun style. Data + Historical facts and evidence > No data from a braindead moron. YOU LOSE!!! =)
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun By the way, did you also know that since 1979, when deregulation started around the world, that the average global growth rate has decreased from 3% to 1%? Surprise, surprise, the Libertarians were wrong again.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Yea I am really going to read the ten+ paragraphs you wrote me. I can already see they are filled with nothing but incoherent babble trying to save face because you get killed in a debate. FUCKING KILLED!!!
"does stimulus spending work? the data says no"
youre an idiot and you were proven wrong. now go cry to someone else because I do not want to fucking hear it.
Tax hikes do not increase tax revenues shit for brains, wheres your evidence?? NOWHERE!! HAHA, You are pathetic
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun WHERE have I been proven wrong? You're just a pussy who is DESPERATE to somehow convince me that I am wrong when you have not provided one SINGLE SHRED of evidence to back up your theories that were proven false over 100 years ago.
It's easy: if you have "proven" me wrong, repost it. Since you allegedly won that argument, why not just repost it?
Also answer this question: if you simply refuse to look at the UNCONTESTED FACTS I have shown you, why should I look at your stuff?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "WHERE have I been proven wrong?" For simpletons : watch?v=Zo0h_AR_lJM
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus One of the great liberal misunderstandings is that Reagan's tax cuts caused the deficit. If you ever wonder where liberals come from they were the ones in math class that didn't pay attention.
Tax Revenues nearly doubled during Reagan's term in office, which had he and his all Democrat congress bothered to restrain their spending would have led to the elimination of the debt. But during the 1980s spending tripled. Done getting shitted on one statement after the next??
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun One of the great "misundestandings?" Oh, I see: those foolish liberals were looking at FACTS. That's the NUMBER 1 mistake that liberals make: caring about facts. The conservatives know that facts are whatever you want them to be! Just keep repeating yourself enough, and eventually, people believe you!
You might want to let Ronald Reagan in on this secret too, because EVEN HE thought the tax cuts caused the deficit. Why do you think he raised taxes the very next year?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Reagan had a spending problem. ughhh...you are such an idiot it is painful. You are desperately trying to save face and it is not working at all. You were better when you just stopped talking. I dont know why you keep coming back for more abuse
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun So, I see you whining and crying a lot, but are you actually going to SAY anything? You shot your mouth off AGAIN without checking to see if what you were saying is right, and you were humiliated yet again after I showed you that Laffer Curve is bullshit, Reagan's tax cuts caused a HUGE drop in revenue, and even Reagan himself admitted that they lost too much revenue, so he signed TEFRA. You don't even know what TEFRA was, do you?
It's so obvious you're 17 years old, lol.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Listen motherfucker, I dont have all day to sit around and babble with your sore loser ass. You are butthurt because you have been getting fucking DESTROYED on every idiotic statement you have made. All you can do is change subjects and desperately try to save face. You are a fucking LAUGHING STOCK. Reagans tax cuts doubled revenues, HE HAD A SPENDING PROBLEM. SPENDING. What don't you get. You dont cite anything you just TALK BULLSHIT. I give facts YOU DONT. YOU LOSE!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Wah wah wah, more insults, no facts, no figures, no nothing, no attempt to answer the question he's been running away from for a week.
Sorry son, you fail econ 101. Run along now.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus I like how you talk to the audience. You really are braindead huh?
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Oh, so you DIDN'T look at my article and accompanying chart (or even the fucking Wikipedia entry, for Christ's sake?!) PROVING how Reagan LOST REVENUE by lowering taxes?
That's strange, that you would ignore a very relevant fact, RIGHT AFTER of accusing me of ignoring facts and giving no evidence.
What else are you lying about, you fucking fraud?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You want surplus? You could just knock the military back into 1918 and we'd have a massive surplus!!
Fraud?? Listen little boy, you are a socialist moron. Nobody takes ANYTHING you say seriously. You aren't even a keynesian you are a straight up socialist living in lala land. People like you should be lined up and shot in the head.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun blahblahblah
Translation: PLEASE don't make me answer this question, because the answer will PROVE that I am fucking idiot who doesn't even know the basic definition of GDP."
Sorry asshole, you're not getting away with your blatant 9th grade level mistake here.
You can't dodge this question. It's been over a week now. What is GDP?
He can't do it! hahaha
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Let me just get this straight, this is you :
"OF COURSE revenues increased, you moron"
"Reagan LOST revenues, they didn't increase!!"
I mean, how fucking pathetic are you??
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Haha, so now you can't tell the difference between 1981-1982, and 1981-1989?
Haha!!!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Man this argument has been debunked and finished for decades if not centuries. It is like beating a dead horse. This very notion is the reason our founders wanted LIMITED GOVERNMENT. Because when government gets too big, industrialists take it over. They then form a coalition against the consumers and the workers. They knew that when government was powerful enough to give people things, then political parties and special interests would squander for the political levers of power.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun *snore*
Son, apparently you don't get it. This is going nowhere until you quit being a pussy. There can be no debate if you keep dodging every question I ask.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Just because your exploitation nonsense has been shot to shit, no need to try and act like you are entitled to other peoples property. Of course a moron like yourself doesnt believe in private property. Workers don't pay overhead shit for brains, WORKERS ARE OVERHEAD. You have never been in business in your life and don't understand jack shit. Just the idea that you think the federal government can run everything (when in reality they can't run a fucking post office) is hillarious
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Shot to shit? By whom? You? BWAHAHA!!!
Here's what you said: "Exploitation is not true, lol!"
That's your "proof?" When the Wall Street bankers who caused this recession get paid billions while the people who actually make the country run get booted out of their houses and file for bankruptcy?
lol, "shot to shit." You really are too much. It's so funny, because it's obvious you haven't so much as read a newspaper article about this recession.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus "When the Wall Street bankers who caused this recession get paid billions while the people who actually make the country run get booted out of their houses and file for bankruptcy?"
You think this is an argument for worker exploitation? You don't even understand your own myth. That has nothing to do with employees receiving a share in their company.. Oh boy.....
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Uh, yes it does, shit-for-brains. I'll hold your hand through this. The robbers who loot from the public treasury are only able to do so because they are able to buy government, which they are able to do because they STEAL THEIR WORKERS' MONEY. Well, to be completely accurate, they are given the stolen money by others, who then use it to suck out more stolen money.
But, if you think Congress votes to print money, then you wouldn't understand this.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Tell me genius,how are we going to sustain the situation we are in? How are we going to spend even more money on more stupid programs? How are we going to get out of debt? How are we going to pay future retirees? You have no fucking clue! Idiot shitheads like you got us into this bullshit because of your social nonsense horse shit that keeps people generations deep in welfare and entitlements. Weve ran out of everyone elses money, now we are running out of money that doesnt exist
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Figure out GDP, son: we will move on to the real stuff, but only once you've passed Economics 101. Just grow some balls, swallow some pride, and stop dodging the question, and then we'll move on.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun "Can't run a fucking post office."
"Without the RHBTF charge, the USPS would be showing a net profit of over $1 billion, despite the continuing decline in mail volume."
HAHAHAHA!! USPS has made a profit for DECADES!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!
You're done, you fucking idiot.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun
" Still, the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years."
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Meanwhile, a company gives you NOTHING, except what you give yourself through work, but for some reason, you think they are owed tribute. All they do is give a worker the permission to SUPPORT HIMSELF, and give him nothing, but skim off the top, but the WORKER should be THANKFUL these mighty men have been kind enough to ALLOW them to work.
Fuck you and everything you stand for, you fascist.
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
@AntiLazarus LOL oh what, you believe in "EXPLOITATION" hahahahaaaa...If you dont need your employer to work, then open your own business. Simple as that. Youre just antoher socialist piece of shit who doesnt understand how the world works. You think an appointed few at the top should run our lives from cradle to grave simply because you cant handle freedom and your own life sucks because youre not willing to put in work. You want to consume without producing. Sorry faggot!!
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun Uh, dumbass, if EVERYONE opened a business, we'd have too fucking many businesses. You only need so many. Whether the right likes it or not, we NEED workers, because corporations don't do shit. The rich don't do shit.
AntiLazarus 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AntiLazarus "Uh, dumbass, if EVERYONE opened a business, we'd have too fucking many businesses. You only need so many" hahahahahahahaha keep going, this is great. "THe rich dont do shit" really? Sooo bill gates hasnt contributed to the economy?? you are digging your own grave again.
AroundSun 8 months ago
@AroundSun I contribute to the economy. Therefore, I demand to be paid $50 billion.
Do you see where you went wrong?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AntiLazarus " I contribute to the economy. Therefore, I demand to be paid $50 billion.
Do you see where you went wrong?"
You are just talking to yourself now. Stop changing the subject. Nobody has ever made a ridiculous statement like that
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun I see that you do NOT see where you went wrong.
Thankfully, everyone else does, haha.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Since the presidency of Woodrow Wilson, the Federal Government has always spent more money than it has collected in tax revenue. The additional money has been provided by borrowing. When the borrowed money has become due, the government simply borrowed more money, often at higher interest rates, then used the newly borrowed money to pay back the lenders who came calling. Any middle schooler capable of understanding basic math knows that this simply can't last. 130+ TRILLION!!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Except for a DEMOCRAT's presidency, when Bill Clinton took in a surplus, that the conservatives promptly spent.
LOL, you're so fucking wrong it's surreal.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus Everyone loves to talk about the CLINTON SURPLUS but rarely ANYONE ever takes it head on. The tax revenue increases from the .com boom had nothing to do with it right?? The surplus from gutting the military in the 90's? You probably were just fucking born you clown. Clinton didn't leave a surplus but a $1.4 trillion debt over eight years. He borrowed from Social Security, part of a $113 Trillion unfunded liability, to make it seem he left a surplus.
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Can someone change that baby's diaper? He's crying, I think he's soiled himself.
Oh, wait! It's just a butthurt crybaby Libertarian fuckwit, who doesn't even know what GDP is, whining and making excuses because someone called him out on his bullshit.
Want to mail you a book so you can find out what GDP is?
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus More talking to the audience, proof of your degrading metnal state. Nobody is talking back! "The Postal Service warned again that it is likely to run out of money and default on some financial obligations at the end of its fiscal year in September when it surpasses its legal borrowing limit with the U.S. Treasury."
Everyone knows the post office is in the shitter, of course, you try to say otherwise. You also said SS had a surplus LMAO. AND that govt spending always increases GDP
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Haha, you're laughing at me for saying 3 true things. Hilarious!
First, government spending DOES ALWAYS INCREASE GDP, and nothing you say says otherwise until you grow some balls and post the formula.
Second, just because the USPS has had a bad year doesn't mean doesn't mean it isn't a well run company. Hilarious. You ignore decades of profit and focus on a bad year caused by a decrease in mail volume. You're like a global warming denier who thinks it shouldn't snow in winter.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus There is nothing left to say to you. 7,000 pages of new regulations each year, government monopolies, bailouts of the banking industry, a federal reserve banking system, government buying up homes and nationalizing failing businesses, the highest top marginal tax rates in THE WORLD. The biggest deficit in the world!!! Free market!! It's more like? the USSA!! Rome is burning and you liberals sit around and think of ways to coverup the 130+ trillion we're in cuz of socialism!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun There is one thing left to say: what is the definition of GDP? Include the formula please.
Why do you continue, after more than a week, to dodge this basic question? You're clearly scared of the question, because if you were really correct, as you claim, then you wouldn't mind to tell me. Enough is enough. You cannot run away any longer. Just answer the question.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus So im done teaching you how the world works. Id rather talk to a wall. You bring no arguments, and your childish mentality is annoying. I can tell you are a loser who sits home and never gets any pussy. Girls dont like welfare cases. Just remember how bad you got your fucking ASS KICKED and maybe you can learn something to. Fair-well dickbag!!
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Son, you will not get away with lying to me. When you try to lie to me in a "debate" and get caught, I will make you pay for it.
Your desperate, childish attempts to keep changing the subject will not fool anyone and they will distract me.
You're wrong, you know it, and you're desperately trying to avoid admitting it, just like all lazy, self-centered, braindead Libertarian assholes.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus SEE YA! STOP WRITING IM NOT READING LOL...SAVE YOUR TIME
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun Still can't figure out GDP? I'm not surprised. But I'm also not letting you forget about it.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun See ya! Not sure where you're going, but hopefully it's a place where you can take a nice book to read! Preferably an economics book! Maybe summer vacation will be enough time for you figure out why government spending, like any spending, raises GDP!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun GDP, asshole. What is it?
Oh, is the question too hard? Well, let me see if I can think of one more on a Libertarian's level:
How old are you?
What's your name?
Want some candy?
Good boy, run along now.
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AntiLazarus You lose =)
AroundSun 7 months ago
@AroundSun HAha!
On the contrary: I've totally shut you up. You're so scared of being beaten in another argument that you're afraid to say anything!
AntiLazarus 7 months ago
@AroundSun Turns out the Libertarian strategy of yelling: "Freedom!" "Tyranny!" "Federal Reserve!" is not enough to win an argument with someone who knows the facts.
Another Libertarian who lost to a Communist. Funny how often this happ