If I could save a dog or EVERY SINGLE religious loon on the planet. (And I don't mean regular religious people, just the fanatics.) Then I'd save the dog.
And in the process I'd probably save the world by making that choice. Because without the lunatic religious people around progress would take off like a nanotech lunar elevator (probably literally!) and the genes for that brand of idiocy would probably be permanently gone too.
Life is valuable only insofar as agents capable of valuing things value life. That value is relative, it's transient, and it's contingent upon the whim of valuers.
If I had a cute kitten living in my apartment I'd value its life and well-being and care for its needs and keep it safe and healthy. If I had 127 cute kittens living in my apartment, I probably wouldn't be too busted up if I accidentally stepped on a couple of em on my way to the bathroom.
Right, religious people value human life, unlike scientists... So I guess scientists are responsible for terrorism, crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, persecution of gays,...
It was good until you get to the end where you started spreading all your religiou,s BS, half-assed arguments about life being "valuable because it is rare" or "precious because it is not well defined".... You need to get outside your subjective delusions and wake up to the real world. The universe will grow cold and everything you or I or Hitler has done (or will ever do) makes no difference in the end. Wake up and smell the hopelessness.
@Cilence13 If nothing matters, why the hell did you even bother commenting? I feel sorry for anybody that doesn't recognize the beauty of life. Yes, we are going to die. What difference are you talking about? Things end. Cry me a river. Would life only be valuable if your name was cast in eternal stone? Give me a break. Life might be beautiful, but reality can be a bitch. Big surprise. This is such a cold, hard life, and oh woe is me. Dude, pull your head out of your ass and grow the fuck up
@anzwertree I point to facts and reason, and you get emotional. If you are going to be an atheist, nut up. Don't choose to live in a delusion. You have no grounds for objective value or meaning.
You're worse than the Christians, at least they believe in value and meaning based on God. They think their beliefs about value conform to reality. You don't want to face reality. You know the universe assigns us no value, and doesn't give a s*** what we do. Yet you turn away from that reality.
@Cilence13 This must be an insecurity issue. You go online and criticize people for harboring a "delusion" in order to make you feel superior. And just what is it you object to? That I regard life as rare and beautiful? Hahaha, yea that is so delusional. That must be why you have zero subscribers and zero videos. If you have some balls, make a video and we'll debate this topic. Let's see what other atheists agree with. Is life beautiful and rare, or is it worthless? Your move, genius
@anzwertree I just can't stand your brand of Atheism. You guys deceive so many people. Your philosophy tells you there is no REAL value or meaning to human life, yet you hold on to value and meaning anyways. You want to have my God and eat Him too.
You convince people that they can deny God but retain meaning whenever it is convenient.
I've been wanting to start posting videos. What do you think would be a good first topic?
@Cilence13 My philosophy? What you're talking about? Atheism is not a "philosophy." What's with the 180? Now you're saying there is value and meaning to life? Just the other day you were saying the universe will grow cold, everybody will die, and how everything is ultimately meaningless. You started this off by criticizing me for regarding life as rare, undefined, and beautiful. How exactly does that brand my "philosophy" [whatever the hell that means] as holding no value for human life?
@anzwertree I'm christian. My "philosophy" is just my worldview. In my worldview, God exists. In Your worldview or "philosophy" God does not exist.
I'm saying that you are being inconsistent. It does not make sense to say both that God does not exist and that human life has REAL value.... You may like human life and want it to continue and prosper. You may even say that you value human life.. But that does not actually mean it IS valuable.
@Cilence13 So you're saying life is only valuable because God says so? That is so unbelievably sad. Maybe you desperately need your worth affirmed by some supernatural agent, but I don't. Life isn't beautiful simply because someone says so. Beauty cannot be delegated by an authority. That's just silly. Beauty is an innate characteristic exhibited by the miracle of life. If you require a God to see that, I feel sorry for you. It's beautiful with a God. It's beautiful without a God.
@anzwertree You are jumping around. We were talking about value and you switched to beauty. But I can talk about beauty too. Some people may believe mass murder or torture is beautiful. Are they wrong? If so, why? Because you say so? This line of thought shows that beauty is a subjective quality, not an innate fact. You have no ground for objective beauty.
There MAY BE a ground for objective beauty if God exists, but we KNOW there is no ground if he doesn't exist.
@Cilence13 I'm afraid the Bible doesn't help your case for morality. This is the same God who ordered the Israelites into neighboring villages to kill everything that moved, and to keep the female virgins for themselves. This is the God you derive value from? The same God who endorses slavery? Blood sacrifice. What is your God's obsession with blood? Why does he love the smell of burt flesh? That's value? I find that particularly disturbing. Not only am I more moral than your God, so are you
@Cilence13 I'm afraid the Bible doesn't help your case for morality. This is the same God who ordered the Israelites into neighboring villages to kill everything that moved, and to keep the female virgins for themselves. This is the God you derive value from? The same God who endorses slavery? Blood sacrifice. What is your God's obsession with blood? Why does he love the smell of burt flesh? That's value? I find that particularly disturbing. Not only am I more moral than your God, so are you
@anzwertree ooooo, ok this is where it gets really interesting..
So you are implying that God did evil (or wrong)... But why is it wrong to keep slaves? or wipe out villages and keep the virgins? Keep in mind that there have been (and are) cultures that think these things (and worse) were permissible. You and I obviously think those people are wrong... But are they REALLY WRONG? Or do we MERELY DISAGREE with them about whats ok to do and what is not?.. How could they be REALLY WRONG?
@Cilence13 According to your God there's nothing wrong with slavery or child sacrifice. Thus, I am morally superior to your God. Slavery prescribes owning people as property. Your reasoning that "things are only moral because God says so" is just stupid. Slavery inflicts pain and suffering. Murdering and raping people undermines a civilized and functional society. Use some empathy here. Would you like being a slave? What if your mom was raped? Would that be a good thing - what if God ordered it?
@anzwertree You are attacking my God a lot. Plus you are just being condescending by calling Him "sky daddy." Also, It is not fair to say that God finds nothing wrong with child sacrifice or slavery. It is just not true... But besides that, this is just a diversion. What God says is not the issue just yet. You are jumping ahead by judging God's actions as bad or evil. Let's back up a sec and look at what you are saying first.
@anzwertree You are basically claiming that you are morally superior to God. And it seems that you think this because you decide what is moral or immoral based on what actions make the happiest most stable society. So it seems that you are saying that beings SHOULD promote a happy and stable society and that those who do not promote a happy and stable society are inferior... But why should "what promotes a nice society" be the standard by which actions are measured? because you say so?
@Cilence13 That's not what he is saying at all. No one "decides" morality. Morality is determined by the inherent consequences associated with our actions. We think raping is immoral, for example, because is diminishes the quality of someones life. We measure morality based upon considering the implications of our choices. While it is true some people have a screwed up sense of what is right and wrong, it's not an individual that decides morality as a whole. It's a collective effort
@Islandfad You'll have to clarify for me.. It seems like your applying to the happy society that he did.. You also seem to be appealing to consensus to determine right and wrong.
Follow this line of thought: You and the nazi's disagree about what is right and wrong. What I mean by this is that you disagree about what actions should or should not be permitted. You must think that the nazi's are Wrong about what actions should be allowed and you are right... But how do you determine who is right?
@Cilence13 I see what you mean, Cilence. To a certain extent, yes, I do decide what is moral for me personally. But that only goes so far. If I thought child sacrifice was moral, society would not benefit at all from my perceived notions. In fact, it would be entirely counter productive to civilization. I find your last question somewhat disturbing. You honestly cannot think of any reason why having a society where we do not kill or rape each other to be desirable? (Continued)
@anzwertree Oh, of course I desire a society without rape and murder. BUT, I realize that my wanting the society one way does not mean a society with rape and murder is WRONG or that society SHOULDNT have rape and murder.. All I can really say is that I prefer that it didnt (and maybe that I would use all my power to make it not have rape and murder)
But I realize that to say That I'm right and the rapists are wrong would require me to appeal to some objective fact besides my desires.
@Cilence13 Oh, of course I desire a society without rape and murder. BUT, I realize that my wanting the society one way does not mean a society with rape and murder is WRONG
Did I say anything about "wanting?" I could have sworn I said "rationally considering consequences." Shit dude, I WANT to get laid right now, but I'm not going to go rape someone because I want sex. Why? By rationally considering the consequences associated with such an action. It would ruin some innocent girl's life. Hello
@anzwertree Ok fine, we can say rationally consider, but it still ultimately comes down to desires wants and opinion.
The rapist could think it through rationally and consider all the consequences of what he's about to do. But ultimately he may decide that he is willing to sacrifice the girls well being for his short term pleasure... Then what can you say to him? You would have to say that he is valuing the wrong things. But how do you declare what the "correct" things to value are? opinion?
@Cilence13 For example, let's say some God told me to kill my child. I don't have kids, but I can imagine what that might be like. I would tell God to go to hell. No pun intended. Go ahead and kill me. Torture me. Whatever. I'm not murdering someone simply because an authority commanded me to. I don't care what the reward is. The Nuremberg defense is BullS@! That's why I believe I'm moral moral than this evil God. He does things I would NEVER do. I'd like to think you are better than that too.
@Cilence13 Seriously? You need god to tell you that rape is wrong? Where in the bible does it say that rape is wrong? What do you think is an appropriate punishment for a rape victim too scared to scream? Do you think she should be punished at all? Your god does.
@KennyTew2 I think you do need god to tell you. He told you didn't he? The bible says that God has written his law on mens hearts. You may call this your conscience. You got the idea that rape is wrong from your conscience didn't you?
And no, don't think rape victims should be punished. Great question.
@Cilence13 "God has written his law on mens hearts." Really? Then why does my conscience tell me that stoning rape victims who do not scream is barbaric and evil, yet your gods law tells me that is what should be done? (Deuteronomy 22, 23-24) Why does my conscience tell me that taking foreigners as slaves for life is wrong when your God allows it? Why Do I think it's barbaric to stone my children wane they are insubordinate? Why do think the genocide of every unborn baby on the earth is wrong?
2) IF the conscience I use to aid me in moral judgments is the law of your god written upon my heart why is it that my morality tells me your god is a hideously evil, mass-murdering monster who tortures and kills on a whim? There isn't a human alive who is morally inferior to the monster god of the bible, and I have met none so self obsessed and paranoid.
One final quick example the tale of Abraham and his 'test'. God proves his authority by ordering a sacrifice (to his ego),
2) IF the conscience I use to aid me in moral judgments is the law of your god written upon my heart why is it that my morality tells me your god is a hideously evil, mass-murdering monster who tortures and kills on a whim? There isn't a human alive who is morally inferior to the monster god of the bible, and I have met none so self obsessed and paranoid.
One final quick example the tale of Abraham and his 'test'. God proves his authority by ordering a sacrifice (to his ego),
@KennyTew2 Also, You dont see the eternal viewpoint. You do realize That Issac would be in paradise had he been killed. Not even he would complain I think, so why are you?
@KennyTew2 It seems like you mostly suffer from a scarred conscience and secondarily misinterpret God's word.
God knows far better than Abraham what should or should not be done. Also, we know that God wants the best for his creation. With tthese two premises, why would you NOT trust god?
Do you really think that a few moments of pain (for Issac) has more value than whatever God has in store? I'd go with God on this one. He is in a better position to know what should or should not be done.
@KennyTew2 There are a couple reasons your conscience may not match God's word:
1) Your conscience may be scarred. Meaning, it is broken. This can happen through sin.
2) You do not understand God's word. For example, if you read just a few lines further, you will see that God says that if a woman is raped, only the man must be killed. The verses you pick out is about a woman who willingly commits adultery. I'm sure if she said her life was threatened, she'd get off. You cant word perfect laws.
@KennyTew2 I'm pretty sure Cilence13 is a troll. Something just doesn't seem right about this guy. Why would a "Christian" favorite a video by QualiaSoup? I also looked through many of his past comments from other videos by dumping the feed through Youtube's public API. Something is not right with this kid. He's either trolling or he's schizophrenic.
@anzwertree Thanks for letting me know. There is something quite unnerving about his responses. I have heard people try to justify these evils before, but never from the perspective that the victim is better off. To be so dismissive of the value of human life is very strange.
@Cilence13 Just like I said contributing morality to god doesn’t account for it, I would not say something is moral because I said so. This is not a he said she said scenario. It’s about rationally considering the consequences of our actions. I don’t want to be raped or killed, and so I support a society that doesn’t allow such brutality.
"You are jumping ahead by judging God's actions as bad or evil."
YES! What is the alternative? You cannot judge the good he does without judging the bad too
@Cilence13 Deciding what is wrong is a matter of applying skepticism and reasoned logic. We don't kill people because living in a society that condones such actions would jeopardize the survival of our species. Do we need a God for that? Hey, lets not kill, rape, or take each others stuff. That doesn't take a whole lot of common sense. You are not accounting for morality simply by pointing to your sky daddy and saying; Look, it's because God says so! Would you kill your child if God told you to?
@mastiffsito Well, I know I came to exist because of my parents. But ultimately, in the long run??? That's a damn good question. To be honest, I don't know.
VFX duped others out of money he promised to donate to Sick Kids Hospital, filed multiple false DMCAs, falsely accused someone of being a pedophile, lied about death threats so he could run away from his accusers. His own words and videos here on youtube, new and old, prove he is a liar and a hypocrite.
watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4
watch?v=QPrhsBcpYr4
watch?v=E1XgKQxasxg
watch?v=Nn4h-MjvIko
And he hasn't changed a bit. Still leading the blind like lemmings into the sea
Kinda surprised though to see PCS go off with that 'One man and One woman' nonsense consie fucktards yelp about.
I always kind of suspected he was gay. (And although there's plenty I could legitimately insult Shawn with, that is not meant as an insult. He just has this sort of gay vibe. But I've been wrong before I guess.)
That dog vs. annoying neighbor thing is not a hard one for me.
My personal view holds that you are not necessarily OBLIGED to save someone. It's a good thing to do (morally positive), but morally neutral not to do so, not morally evil. But neutral.
Therefor I wouldn't risk my life to go into a burning building to save someone I hated. But I might grab my pet if I can, which would be much easier to do anyway since it's in the same house as me.
Wow. I agreed with one thing, I feel that religion has had a HUGE effect on the value of life....it actually lowered it. It's preposterous to believe that ancient pagans had no value to their own lives, hell - they even valued other forms of life. Religious thinking has done more to damage our environment than anything else, because of the ridiculous idea that all things are in subjection to humans. Attitudes like that just run rampant over everything else in existance.
Matthew 7:16-20 (KJ) 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . . . every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit . . . Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
According to the standards of the book Christians go by; Christians FAIL, both historically and today.
actually with the painting we could test to find where the paint came from then use a cross referenced database of painters based on credit card numbers to find out who bought said materials then it's just a process of elimination. Science it works bitches. Give me 20 minutes and i'll come up with a better method. Actually sociology and psychology are devoted to the problem of quality. Though we can argue about if those qualify as science.
@mitenzouki psychology is the application of the scientific method to create models that explain human behaviour. science. fruedian psychology and psychoanaylsis isn't science though.
@twiistaaa yes thats what they are supposed to be but many models that are produced are difficult if not down right impossible to disprove. but then I'm an actual doctor so there is bias here.
@twiistaaa It's mainly in the area of predicting future behavior. Body language reading is only slightly better than guesswork yet ,at least from my perspective, is largely treated as a good system. Lie detection is also iffy though that area seems to be drifting more into the neurological realms... *sigh* I don't really feel up to this at the moment it's been a long day most of my knowledge of psychology being outdated doesn't help either. Do they still teach that chart denial to acceptance?
@mitenzouki i haven't come across the 5 stages of grief it in my degree so far (3rd year undergrad). but again it is a psychoanalytical model, not a psychological one. i've learnt a little bit on facial expressions and by association lie detection (the forerunner in that area is paul ekman the basis for the main character in 'lie to me') however we learnt it more for general theory than as an applied tool. but even so controlled tests can demonstrate the success rate or failure of lie detection.
@twiistaaa Apologies, I was unaware up until about 5 minutes ago that Freud was the one considered responsible for psychoanalytic theory. In any event you already have more experience in said field than I. As it turns out the vast majority of my experience comes from that one. I still have a problem with the overly broad terms I've heard tossed around in psych stuff but I'll go to neutral on the field in general but stay negative on psychoanalytical.
@mitenzouki yeah, i'm negative on psychanalysis too. we've had 1 lecture so far on the field. it was the biggest waste of time. the lecturer actually said "psychoanalysis is the science of the particular" haha. utter rubbish.
So much for his parents reigning in his mental issues. You know, I don't like Shawn one bit for the shit he's pulled over the years, but if he's back on YT this will just end badly for him. This boy is doing his best to destroy his life and not getting the medical help he needs. Another Tony48219 in the making. I truely hope that I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I hope that it's just he that pays the price.
Essentially, Sherlock Holmes wouldn't have had a fictional migraine deducing potential motivating factors and a general narrative for VFX's flower picture.
@sundaymorningsleepr And I would welcome you with open arms, of coure. But I'd never take credit for such a scenario. My primary motivation is to encourage people to weigh the evidence for themselves, draw their own conclusions, and ultimately follow the dictates of their character based on reason and logic. If you ever realize you are an atheist, I'm assured it would be for those reasons. If anything, I only reminded you of things you already knew.
Isn't Science also a way of thinking, not just reserved for the Scientists with a degree. I mean VenomFangX obviously lives in a world where he thinks there exists a creator a mere thought away from him. That kinda inhibits the whole process of thinking critically, as if you think you got the answers for your test.
great points, and well stated. vfx is a shit-bird.
lessevdoolbretsim 14 hours ago
9:32 The meaning of life explained, listen and learn :)
otterboi26 1 week ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Smartest video on youtube!
otterboi26 1 week ago in playlist Uploaded videos
That was so pathetic, Shawn. My life has value because of the people around me, not because someone wants me to have it
d007ization 1 month ago
If I could save a dog or EVERY SINGLE religious loon on the planet. (And I don't mean regular religious people, just the fanatics.) Then I'd save the dog.
And in the process I'd probably save the world by making that choice. Because without the lunatic religious people around progress would take off like a nanotech lunar elevator (probably literally!) and the genes for that brand of idiocy would probably be permanently gone too.
TheSkunkCat 2 months ago
Wow great job I agree completely
funnyvidssnet 2 months ago
Life is valuable only insofar as agents capable of valuing things value life. That value is relative, it's transient, and it's contingent upon the whim of valuers.
If I had a cute kitten living in my apartment I'd value its life and well-being and care for its needs and keep it safe and healthy. If I had 127 cute kittens living in my apartment, I probably wouldn't be too busted up if I accidentally stepped on a couple of em on my way to the bathroom.
iconoclastic23 4 months ago
Fangboy wouldn't know science if it bit him on his arse.
krissyeh 4 months ago
Great Vid dude, you shot down Venomfang real good brother. Science rules
Krooksbane 5 months ago
Right, religious people value human life, unlike scientists... So I guess scientists are responsible for terrorism, crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, persecution of gays,...
VenomfangX is an idiot.
weelittledragon 5 months ago
It was good until you get to the end where you started spreading all your religiou,s BS, half-assed arguments about life being "valuable because it is rare" or "precious because it is not well defined".... You need to get outside your subjective delusions and wake up to the real world. The universe will grow cold and everything you or I or Hitler has done (or will ever do) makes no difference in the end. Wake up and smell the hopelessness.
God Bless,
- Cilence13
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 If nothing matters, why the hell did you even bother commenting? I feel sorry for anybody that doesn't recognize the beauty of life. Yes, we are going to die. What difference are you talking about? Things end. Cry me a river. Would life only be valuable if your name was cast in eternal stone? Give me a break. Life might be beautiful, but reality can be a bitch. Big surprise. This is such a cold, hard life, and oh woe is me. Dude, pull your head out of your ass and grow the fuck up
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree I point to facts and reason, and you get emotional. If you are going to be an atheist, nut up. Don't choose to live in a delusion. You have no grounds for objective value or meaning.
You're worse than the Christians, at least they believe in value and meaning based on God. They think their beliefs about value conform to reality. You don't want to face reality. You know the universe assigns us no value, and doesn't give a s*** what we do. Yet you turn away from that reality.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 This must be an insecurity issue. You go online and criticize people for harboring a "delusion" in order to make you feel superior. And just what is it you object to? That I regard life as rare and beautiful? Hahaha, yea that is so delusional. That must be why you have zero subscribers and zero videos. If you have some balls, make a video and we'll debate this topic. Let's see what other atheists agree with. Is life beautiful and rare, or is it worthless? Your move, genius
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree I just can't stand your brand of Atheism. You guys deceive so many people. Your philosophy tells you there is no REAL value or meaning to human life, yet you hold on to value and meaning anyways. You want to have my God and eat Him too.
You convince people that they can deny God but retain meaning whenever it is convenient.
I've been wanting to start posting videos. What do you think would be a good first topic?
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 My philosophy? What you're talking about? Atheism is not a "philosophy." What's with the 180? Now you're saying there is value and meaning to life? Just the other day you were saying the universe will grow cold, everybody will die, and how everything is ultimately meaningless. You started this off by criticizing me for regarding life as rare, undefined, and beautiful. How exactly does that brand my "philosophy" [whatever the hell that means] as holding no value for human life?
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree I'm christian. My "philosophy" is just my worldview. In my worldview, God exists. In Your worldview or "philosophy" God does not exist.
I'm saying that you are being inconsistent. It does not make sense to say both that God does not exist and that human life has REAL value.... You may like human life and want it to continue and prosper. You may even say that you value human life.. But that does not actually mean it IS valuable.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 So you're saying life is only valuable because God says so? That is so unbelievably sad. Maybe you desperately need your worth affirmed by some supernatural agent, but I don't. Life isn't beautiful simply because someone says so. Beauty cannot be delegated by an authority. That's just silly. Beauty is an innate characteristic exhibited by the miracle of life. If you require a God to see that, I feel sorry for you. It's beautiful with a God. It's beautiful without a God.
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree You are jumping around. We were talking about value and you switched to beauty. But I can talk about beauty too. Some people may believe mass murder or torture is beautiful. Are they wrong? If so, why? Because you say so? This line of thought shows that beauty is a subjective quality, not an innate fact. You have no ground for objective beauty.
There MAY BE a ground for objective beauty if God exists, but we KNOW there is no ground if he doesn't exist.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 I'm afraid the Bible doesn't help your case for morality. This is the same God who ordered the Israelites into neighboring villages to kill everything that moved, and to keep the female virgins for themselves. This is the God you derive value from? The same God who endorses slavery? Blood sacrifice. What is your God's obsession with blood? Why does he love the smell of burt flesh? That's value? I find that particularly disturbing. Not only am I more moral than your God, so are you
anzwertree 5 months ago
@Cilence13 I'm afraid the Bible doesn't help your case for morality. This is the same God who ordered the Israelites into neighboring villages to kill everything that moved, and to keep the female virgins for themselves. This is the God you derive value from? The same God who endorses slavery? Blood sacrifice. What is your God's obsession with blood? Why does he love the smell of burt flesh? That's value? I find that particularly disturbing. Not only am I more moral than your God, so are you
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree ooooo, ok this is where it gets really interesting..
So you are implying that God did evil (or wrong)... But why is it wrong to keep slaves? or wipe out villages and keep the virgins? Keep in mind that there have been (and are) cultures that think these things (and worse) were permissible. You and I obviously think those people are wrong... But are they REALLY WRONG? Or do we MERELY DISAGREE with them about whats ok to do and what is not?.. How could they be REALLY WRONG?
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 According to your God there's nothing wrong with slavery or child sacrifice. Thus, I am morally superior to your God. Slavery prescribes owning people as property. Your reasoning that "things are only moral because God says so" is just stupid. Slavery inflicts pain and suffering. Murdering and raping people undermines a civilized and functional society. Use some empathy here. Would you like being a slave? What if your mom was raped? Would that be a good thing - what if God ordered it?
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree You are attacking my God a lot. Plus you are just being condescending by calling Him "sky daddy." Also, It is not fair to say that God finds nothing wrong with child sacrifice or slavery. It is just not true... But besides that, this is just a diversion. What God says is not the issue just yet. You are jumping ahead by judging God's actions as bad or evil. Let's back up a sec and look at what you are saying first.
(Continued)
Cilence13 5 months ago
@anzwertree You are basically claiming that you are morally superior to God. And it seems that you think this because you decide what is moral or immoral based on what actions make the happiest most stable society. So it seems that you are saying that beings SHOULD promote a happy and stable society and that those who do not promote a happy and stable society are inferior... But why should "what promotes a nice society" be the standard by which actions are measured? because you say so?
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 That's not what he is saying at all. No one "decides" morality. Morality is determined by the inherent consequences associated with our actions. We think raping is immoral, for example, because is diminishes the quality of someones life. We measure morality based upon considering the implications of our choices. While it is true some people have a screwed up sense of what is right and wrong, it's not an individual that decides morality as a whole. It's a collective effort
Islandfad 5 months ago
@Islandfad You'll have to clarify for me.. It seems like your applying to the happy society that he did.. You also seem to be appealing to consensus to determine right and wrong.
Follow this line of thought: You and the nazi's disagree about what is right and wrong. What I mean by this is that you disagree about what actions should or should not be permitted. You must think that the nazi's are Wrong about what actions should be allowed and you are right... But how do you determine who is right?
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 I see what you mean, Cilence. To a certain extent, yes, I do decide what is moral for me personally. But that only goes so far. If I thought child sacrifice was moral, society would not benefit at all from my perceived notions. In fact, it would be entirely counter productive to civilization. I find your last question somewhat disturbing. You honestly cannot think of any reason why having a society where we do not kill or rape each other to be desirable? (Continued)
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree Oh, of course I desire a society without rape and murder. BUT, I realize that my wanting the society one way does not mean a society with rape and murder is WRONG or that society SHOULDNT have rape and murder.. All I can really say is that I prefer that it didnt (and maybe that I would use all my power to make it not have rape and murder)
But I realize that to say That I'm right and the rapists are wrong would require me to appeal to some objective fact besides my desires.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 Oh, of course I desire a society without rape and murder. BUT, I realize that my wanting the society one way does not mean a society with rape and murder is WRONG
Did I say anything about "wanting?" I could have sworn I said "rationally considering consequences." Shit dude, I WANT to get laid right now, but I'm not going to go rape someone because I want sex. Why? By rationally considering the consequences associated with such an action. It would ruin some innocent girl's life. Hello
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree Ok fine, we can say rationally consider, but it still ultimately comes down to desires wants and opinion.
The rapist could think it through rationally and consider all the consequences of what he's about to do. But ultimately he may decide that he is willing to sacrifice the girls well being for his short term pleasure... Then what can you say to him? You would have to say that he is valuing the wrong things. But how do you declare what the "correct" things to value are? opinion?
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 For example, let's say some God told me to kill my child. I don't have kids, but I can imagine what that might be like. I would tell God to go to hell. No pun intended. Go ahead and kill me. Torture me. Whatever. I'm not murdering someone simply because an authority commanded me to. I don't care what the reward is. The Nuremberg defense is BullS@! That's why I believe I'm moral moral than this evil God. He does things I would NEVER do. I'd like to think you are better than that too.
anzwertree 5 months ago
@Cilence13 Seriously? You need god to tell you that rape is wrong? Where in the bible does it say that rape is wrong? What do you think is an appropriate punishment for a rape victim too scared to scream? Do you think she should be punished at all? Your god does.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 I think you do need god to tell you. He told you didn't he? The bible says that God has written his law on mens hearts. You may call this your conscience. You got the idea that rape is wrong from your conscience didn't you?
And no, don't think rape victims should be punished. Great question.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@Cilence13 "God has written his law on mens hearts." Really? Then why does my conscience tell me that stoning rape victims who do not scream is barbaric and evil, yet your gods law tells me that is what should be done? (Deuteronomy 22, 23-24) Why does my conscience tell me that taking foreigners as slaves for life is wrong when your God allows it? Why Do I think it's barbaric to stone my children wane they are insubordinate? Why do think the genocide of every unborn baby on the earth is wrong?
KennyTew2 5 months ago
2) IF the conscience I use to aid me in moral judgments is the law of your god written upon my heart why is it that my morality tells me your god is a hideously evil, mass-murdering monster who tortures and kills on a whim? There isn't a human alive who is morally inferior to the monster god of the bible, and I have met none so self obsessed and paranoid.
One final quick example the tale of Abraham and his 'test'. God proves his authority by ordering a sacrifice (to his ego),
KennyTew2 5 months ago
2) IF the conscience I use to aid me in moral judgments is the law of your god written upon my heart why is it that my morality tells me your god is a hideously evil, mass-murdering monster who tortures and kills on a whim? There isn't a human alive who is morally inferior to the monster god of the bible, and I have met none so self obsessed and paranoid.
One final quick example the tale of Abraham and his 'test'. God proves his authority by ordering a sacrifice (to his ego),
KennyTew2 5 months ago
3) Abraham, evidently lacking any morality at all, agrees to this evil request and at the last moment, (Ego satisfied) God tells Abraham to stop.
But what would a moral god do?
a) Never ask anyone to sacrifice their child, even for a good reason.
b) Never ask for a pointless sacrifice.
c) Admonish anyone so unthinking that they would follow evil orders.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 Also, You dont see the eternal viewpoint. You do realize That Issac would be in paradise had he been killed. Not even he would complain I think, so why are you?
Cilence13 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Do you really think that a few moments of pain (for Issac) has more value than whatever God has in store?"
Dude, get help. Seriously, get help.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Do you really think that a few moments of pain (for Issac) has more value than whatever God has in store?"
Dude, get help. Seriously, get help.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Do you really think that a few moments of pain (for Issac) has more value than whatever God has in store?"
Dude, get help. Seriously, get help.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 It seems like you mostly suffer from a scarred conscience and secondarily misinterpret God's word.
God knows far better than Abraham what should or should not be done. Also, we know that God wants the best for his creation. With tthese two premises, why would you NOT trust god?
Do you really think that a few moments of pain (for Issac) has more value than whatever God has in store? I'd go with God on this one. He is in a better position to know what should or should not be done.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 There are a couple reasons your conscience may not match God's word:
1) Your conscience may be scarred. Meaning, it is broken. This can happen through sin.
2) You do not understand God's word. For example, if you read just a few lines further, you will see that God says that if a woman is raped, only the man must be killed. The verses you pick out is about a woman who willingly commits adultery. I'm sure if she said her life was threatened, she'd get off. You cant word perfect laws.
Cilence13 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 I'm pretty sure Cilence13 is a troll. Something just doesn't seem right about this guy. Why would a "Christian" favorite a video by QualiaSoup? I also looked through many of his past comments from other videos by dumping the feed through Youtube's public API. Something is not right with this kid. He's either trolling or he's schizophrenic.
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree Thanks for letting me know. There is something quite unnerving about his responses. I have heard people try to justify these evils before, but never from the perspective that the victim is better off. To be so dismissive of the value of human life is very strange.
Great video BTW.
KennyTew2 5 months ago
@KennyTew2 Thanks a lot, bro. I subscribed to your videos too. Keep up the good work.
anzwertree 5 months ago
@Cilence13 Just like I said contributing morality to god doesn’t account for it, I would not say something is moral because I said so. This is not a he said she said scenario. It’s about rationally considering the consequences of our actions. I don’t want to be raped or killed, and so I support a society that doesn’t allow such brutality.
"You are jumping ahead by judging God's actions as bad or evil."
YES! What is the alternative? You cannot judge the good he does without judging the bad too
anzwertree 5 months ago
@Cilence13 Deciding what is wrong is a matter of applying skepticism and reasoned logic. We don't kill people because living in a society that condones such actions would jeopardize the survival of our species. Do we need a God for that? Hey, lets not kill, rape, or take each others stuff. That doesn't take a whole lot of common sense. You are not accounting for morality simply by pointing to your sky daddy and saying; Look, it's because God says so! Would you kill your child if God told you to?
anzwertree 5 months ago
venomfang is a complete waste of time, a lost cause. lets just ignore it and talk to people that are worth the time.
tainted705 7 months ago
Now that you dont believe in god. How do you believe we got to exist? Whats your opinion?
mastiffsito 7 months ago
@mastiffsito Well, I know I came to exist because of my parents. But ultimately, in the long run??? That's a damn good question. To be honest, I don't know.
anzwertree 7 months ago
Wait did VFX just say to "open your mind"? Was he being sarcasticc or something?
PalulukanMakto 8 months ago
Hovind was incarcerated, and and VFX was his incarnation:( Satan MUST BE REAL!!!
buktomsin 11 months ago
Some reminders:
VFX duped others out of money he promised to donate to Sick Kids Hospital, filed multiple false DMCAs, falsely accused someone of being a pedophile, lied about death threats so he could run away from his accusers. His own words and videos here on youtube, new and old, prove he is a liar and a hypocrite.
watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4
watch?v=QPrhsBcpYr4
watch?v=E1XgKQxasxg
watch?v=Nn4h-MjvIko
And he hasn't changed a bit. Still leading the blind like lemmings into the sea
Ghorghinahn 1 year ago
2:48 1 man and "some" women tbh
Yahweigh 1 year ago
Science totally closes your mind, to believing a load of made up shit.
LouisPlume 1 year ago
@LouisPlume And how is that different from religion?
MunkyDrag0n 1 year ago
@LouisPlume
No, that´s religion you are talking about.
NKA23 1 year ago
Kinda surprised though to see PCS go off with that 'One man and One woman' nonsense consie fucktards yelp about.
I always kind of suspected he was gay. (And although there's plenty I could legitimately insult Shawn with, that is not meant as an insult. He just has this sort of gay vibe. But I've been wrong before I guess.)
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
@Shavarnarak
I totally agree...but see...he has a boyfriend now.
NKA23 1 year ago
That dog vs. annoying neighbor thing is not a hard one for me.
My personal view holds that you are not necessarily OBLIGED to save someone. It's a good thing to do (morally positive), but morally neutral not to do so, not morally evil. But neutral.
Therefor I wouldn't risk my life to go into a burning building to save someone I hated. But I might grab my pet if I can, which would be much easier to do anyway since it's in the same house as me.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
Wow. I agreed with one thing, I feel that religion has had a HUGE effect on the value of life....it actually lowered it. It's preposterous to believe that ancient pagans had no value to their own lives, hell - they even valued other forms of life. Religious thinking has done more to damage our environment than anything else, because of the ridiculous idea that all things are in subjection to humans. Attitudes like that just run rampant over everything else in existance.
Revolt1680 1 year ago
Also, science never offers hope coupled with coercion in exchange for blind belief.
PublishingCult 1 year ago
Outstanding commentary. How do Creationists ever survive debate?
pianodavy 1 year ago
@pianodavy ...they slink off and read the Bible?
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
Matthew 7:16-20 (KJ) 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . . . every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit . . . Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
According to the standards of the book Christians go by; Christians FAIL, both historically and today.
End of debate.
PublishingCult 1 year ago
Im at work, getting paid for you to rip VFX a new asshole. Life is good.
Ribcagehacksaw 1 year ago
@Ribcagehacksaw I do what I can.
anzwertree 1 year ago
you summed up exactly what I was thinking, I just couldn't have worded it as well as you have done here. Excellent job man
wilson2012 1 year ago
I never really knew VenomFangX and im kinda glad I didnt
WarMasterX6 1 year ago
6:14 WTF VenomfangX? You think anyone (even a sadistic murdering rapist) should be more important to someone than their pet cat or dog? No way!
Laoch111 1 year ago
@Laoch111 If all christians value human life so important why are so many pro death penalty?
Toudiyama 1 year ago
I agree with you Joshua, there are many rotten despicable people in the world. I'd save a cat or dog instead of those people any day.
You could pitch this to VenomfangX. If god created us on planet Earth - why then did he create billions of planets with no life on them? WTF?
Laoch111 1 year ago
actually with the painting we could test to find where the paint came from then use a cross referenced database of painters based on credit card numbers to find out who bought said materials then it's just a process of elimination. Science it works bitches. Give me 20 minutes and i'll come up with a better method. Actually sociology and psychology are devoted to the problem of quality. Though we can argue about if those qualify as science.
mitenzouki 1 year ago 6
@mitenzouki psychology is the application of the scientific method to create models that explain human behaviour. science. fruedian psychology and psychoanaylsis isn't science though.
twiistaaa 9 months ago
@twiistaaa yes thats what they are supposed to be but many models that are produced are difficult if not down right impossible to disprove. but then I'm an actual doctor so there is bias here.
mitenzouki 9 months ago
@mitenzouki what is an example of a psychological model that isn't falsifiable?
twiistaaa 9 months ago
@twiistaaa It's mainly in the area of predicting future behavior. Body language reading is only slightly better than guesswork yet ,at least from my perspective, is largely treated as a good system. Lie detection is also iffy though that area seems to be drifting more into the neurological realms... *sigh* I don't really feel up to this at the moment it's been a long day most of my knowledge of psychology being outdated doesn't help either. Do they still teach that chart denial to acceptance?
mitenzouki 9 months ago
@mitenzouki i haven't come across the 5 stages of grief it in my degree so far (3rd year undergrad). but again it is a psychoanalytical model, not a psychological one. i've learnt a little bit on facial expressions and by association lie detection (the forerunner in that area is paul ekman the basis for the main character in 'lie to me') however we learnt it more for general theory than as an applied tool. but even so controlled tests can demonstrate the success rate or failure of lie detection.
twiistaaa 9 months ago
@twiistaaa Apologies, I was unaware up until about 5 minutes ago that Freud was the one considered responsible for psychoanalytic theory. In any event you already have more experience in said field than I. As it turns out the vast majority of my experience comes from that one. I still have a problem with the overly broad terms I've heard tossed around in psych stuff but I'll go to neutral on the field in general but stay negative on psychoanalytical.
mitenzouki 9 months ago
@mitenzouki yeah, i'm negative on psychanalysis too. we've had 1 lecture so far on the field. it was the biggest waste of time. the lecturer actually said "psychoanalysis is the science of the particular" haha. utter rubbish.
twiistaaa 9 months ago
So much for his parents reigning in his mental issues. You know, I don't like Shawn one bit for the shit he's pulled over the years, but if he's back on YT this will just end badly for him. This boy is doing his best to destroy his life and not getting the medical help he needs. Another Tony48219 in the making. I truely hope that I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I hope that it's just he that pays the price.
NorthForkFisherman 1 year ago
Essentially, Sherlock Holmes wouldn't have had a fictional migraine deducing potential motivating factors and a general narrative for VFX's flower picture.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 LMFAO oh my god I literally fell right now reading this
Ribcagehacksaw 1 year ago
@Ribcagehacksaw ... and I like the image of you falling =) hehe.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
This is wonderful Anzwer. I'm pretty sure you're going to be the one that makes me an atheist in the end.
sundaymorningsleepr 1 year ago
@sundaymorningsleepr And I would welcome you with open arms, of coure. But I'd never take credit for such a scenario. My primary motivation is to encourage people to weigh the evidence for themselves, draw their own conclusions, and ultimately follow the dictates of their character based on reason and logic. If you ever realize you are an atheist, I'm assured it would be for those reasons. If anything, I only reminded you of things you already knew.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@archeng123 you did it yourself on 12months all from a single to a human...
Alistarb25 1 year ago
@Alistarb25 lol from a single cell to a human
Alistarb25 1 year ago
Tremendous! Among the best videos I've watched in some time, Josh, really!
OgreTheKid 1 year ago
Isn't Science also a way of thinking, not just reserved for the Scientists with a degree. I mean VenomFangX obviously lives in a world where he thinks there exists a creator a mere thought away from him. That kinda inhibits the whole process of thinking critically, as if you think you got the answers for your test.
Schneboll 1 year ago
Shawn coming back to youtube is a Christmas miracle! lol. Nice job on this video.
benjaminisaacallen 1 year ago
I think he was trying to paint a vagina.
JBSauce 1 year ago 16
@JBSauce
Maybe...but see, I had a lot of lectures in psychology on university and so I learned a lot about Freudism.
See, I tend more towards cognitive psychology, but sometimes Freud is still the first choice if you want to interpret something.
Now...look at this flower blooming on a cracked background....it´s not that hard to interpret.
He obviously did that painting while in therapy.
NKA23 1 year ago