Prius Envy

[rompeligas2234]

I love my little ugly prius and I don't care what people say. They are just hating cause I can drive on the carpool lane and they can't hahahahahahahah!!!

[BBBLACKDOG]

Did you know that the full Enviroment cost of a prius over its lifetime is greater than a Land Rover Discovery !

The Enviroment Cost of the Magnesuim in the Battery's alone would be more than The total cost of a Fiat 500

[neoartifact]

Cars that can reclaim kinetic energy and gravitational potential energy are a huge step forward in efficient car technology. It's a lesson or insight into energy conservation in transport. It's stupid people that blow technology like this out of proportion and start labeling it for political motives. Throughout time, most great innovations were scoffed and laughed at. Eventually you will see full-electric car races that will blow F1 away.

[cplai]

I think the reclaimed energy is just a drop in the bucket, especially when you have to factor in conversion losses. In my opinion, the fuel enconmy of the Prius comes from its ability to shut down the engine whenever possible.  Hence, highway MPG is not as great as city driving.

[neoartifact]

Well if you can shut down the engine at times when the car isn't moving, that's a great step forward. Actually, about 15 years ago I saw a program on tv where a Mercedes Benz could shut down it's engine whilst standing still, could inch forward slowly in a traffic jam without turning over the engine and then could restart when the foot was planted. It was like a hybrid but didn't have much of a battery or electric motor.

[cplai]

I am curious how the car inches forward without power. I read an article that Nissan is developing a new engine that can restart without cranking the electric starter. It uses one cylinder to kick start. The design objective is to allow the engine to start and stop at will. I wonder if it has emission problem because initial burn during the engine restart is the dirtiest. The Prius solved the problem by electrically spinning up the cylinder to operating RPM before fuel injection.

[VertigoGTI]

I'm not sure how the cars creep forward, but my guess would be that the starter is causing it to move, similar to how a few motorcycles use the starter to engage a 'reverse' gear.

[cplai]

Motorcycles are light, the starter motor can assist the biker to do reverse slowly. However, for a small size car, the power required would be much higher. I read that the GM hybrid pickup truck has to use a big starter motor running at 48VDC to fake a hybrid system. They could only improve the mpg by less than 10% because the starter motor cannot do much.

[kstompaint]

Of course the government has to provide special treatment for those who buy hybrids. Tax breaks and skipping in line via HOV privileges are just a start. Why else would anybody buy one of these tiny under powered P.O.S.'s? If they were so advantageous, the free market would eat them up without government hand-outs.

[cplai]

The hybrids emit less toxic fume, plus it burns less gas per mile. So the overall emission per mile traveled is just a tiny fraction of a normal car's. The hybrids are not cheap. The owners of these cars use their hard earn money to save the environment. The government hand-outs is not enough to cover what these people had to chip in up front. These cars are in disadvantage because of their high price. Get the facts right please.

[kstompaint]

I do have the facts right. If it's so beneficial to own a hybrid, by all means buy one. Don't expect me to be happy about MY hard earned tax dollars subsidising YOUR purchase. Using the falacy of man-made global warming is a ridiculous ploy by politicians to make themselves look better.

[cplai]

I bet you received all your facts from the reports doctored by the US administration. Any scholar knows that no one, especially the government should alter publications for political reasons. Don't believe what other tells you, take a trip to the north and see for yourself were the ice cap are. Talk to the locals what have changed recently. Then take a trip to the south and ask the locals how hot the climate has changed recently.

[kstompaint]

Actually, the antarctic ice caps are reported to be at record highs. I'm sure you're not an accomplished scientist who has traveled to the ends of the earth, even if you play one on the internet.

Even assuming your "facts" are correct, there is still no arguement for my money to be forcibly taken to subsidize your purchase, regardless what it is.

[tadaa11]

" the free market would eat them up "

Your right, they sold 100,000 last year in the US alone.

[kevinf26]

i think cars with the "Clean vehicle Pass" should be given an advantage, the HOV lane is for the environment and on Longisland we had trouble getting people to car pool so the Prius worked great.

-KEVIN-

[Silaxian]

"we had trouble getting people to car pool" ... ah, so even in spite of the false promise of faster travel via a carpool lane, you could not induce consumers to go for it. Take a hint.

[gateway27]

Dont be haters.

[pauerbach08]

haha. her name is nancy wiener.

[Hassleoff]

They are not slow and far from ugly chode12. I can get in excess of 60mpg easily. Diesels contribute to pollution far more than petrol - I suggest you do some research before you spout the verbal in future.

I give a damn about the enviroment, thats why I drive a more enviromentally friendly car - so what are you doing to save the planet??

[MadeJust4This]

Look Mitch, what ever your sense of fashion may be, you do not seem to carry the same belief as the general public on this matter. Even if you're trying to justify your mistake of buying a steaming pile of shit that barely moves at all, I would have to suggest that you your favorable opinion of that abomination inappropriately labeled a car to yourself for fear of getting shunned or even stoned.

[chode12]

Prius are ugly, slow, and not as efficient as some modern small diesels. 45 REAL mpg compared to 60+ real mpg in some diesels. These cars a pricey status symbols bought mainly by those who don't give a damn about the environment and are much more concerned with looking "cool" and appearing green, as that is now fashionable. I detest all prius drivers.

[gman5541]

Hey! You want to knock the Prius from the HOV lane? Then buy one. If enough folks buy a Prius or a strong fuel-efficient vehicle then governments won't give them the free perks. Simple at that!

[kevinf26]

i agree

-KEVIN-

[100MPG]

he British Adverting Standards Authority (ASA) has banned a second Toyota hybrid-car related ad in a month! This time it's for a Prius TV ad that misleadingly claims it emits less CO2 than an equivalent diesel engine family car

[117wolf]

It doesn't get 50 mpg in the real world. A diesel gets far better mileage then the hybrid dive systems. And they aren't all that environmentally friendly with those large batteries in it, which if ruptured in the event of a car crash will require a hazmat team to clean up.

[cplai]

It does get 50 mpg in the real world depending on how you drive it. My current mpg is above 50 when I commute 17 miles one way at 65mph speed everyday. Longer commute will get better mpg because the first 5 minutes warmup results in about 25mpg no matter what you do. I have taken the local streets to commute instead and I got a few more mpg in city driving. The Prius does better mileage in city than on highway.

[cplai]

The problem with diesel is that they stink and pollute our air quite badly. Even with clean diesel, one can always buy a diesel hybrid that gets much better mileage than a gasoline hybrid or a regular diesel car.

[117wolf]

I have a modern diesel, you can barely smell it, and diesel is one of the cleanest fuels out there right now. Hybrids by the way cause more pollution and damage air quality more then any other car. They are soled under the pretense that they are environmentally friendly but they are far from it.

[cplai]

That is what all hybrid bashers want you to believe. Many argue battery production pollutes. Some even produced evidence on how the mining of the metal left a mess a century ago etc. Are those problems still true now? Do you still remember how diesel used to pollute? Do you still remember how the semiconductor industry left poison in our underground water? Should we stop using computer because of what they did decades ago?

[117wolf]

No that isn't just what hybrid bashers what you to believe, that is fact. The production of the batteries is so environmentally destructive that the prius will never make up for it in the fuel that it saves. Batteries have been and will always be deadly to the environment and no evolution in technology will change that.

[117wolf]

And the mining of nickel in Canada for the batteries has produced so much acid rain that the forest and wild life around the mine have been completely destroyed. NASA tests their rovers there just because it really dose resemble a lunar landscape, lifeless.

[cplai]

I doubt that is related to the Prius batteries. Back in the 70's the semi-conductor industry left behind numerous toxic sites in Silicon valley. Many residents there still cannot drink the ground water today. Do you boycott all computers today because of the mistakes someone left behind decades ago? If you don't mind using any semiconductor product today, you should not worry about the Prius either unless you can prove that nickel mining has not improved.

[117wolf]

Yada, yada, yada, So what are you Prius owners going to do when your batteries need replacing? All that energy wasted, and the pollution created, by a prius battery replacement. It will be right up there with the new energy bulbs not being environmentally friendly, or lasting longer. The fuel of the future is Hydrogen not big batteries.

[cplai]

Strictly speaking Hydrogen is ONLY an energy storage medium disguised as fuel because any clean hydrogen must be produced using energy, e.g. electrolysis of water require large amount of energy. If you talk about using a coal power plant to drive the electrolysis, that is dirty hydrogen. If you talk about extracting hydrogen from fossil fuel, that is dirty hydrogen not better than gasoline nor diesel.

[cplai]

Hydrogen has no future until they solve the supply issue. Where do you get enough hydrogen if everyone drive a fuel cell car? So what are the fuel cell owner going to do whey the fuel cell need replacing? All that energy wasted and the pollution created by the fuel cell replacement.

[117wolf]

The energy required to construct a fuel cell doesn't even come close to the energy required to produce a prius battery. Also you can easily produce clean hydrogen with nuclear energy, which if the US built 400 new plants today, we would no longer need to import oil for power generation.

[117wolf]

This apposed to the prius which requires the ore mind in Canada, to be shipped by fuel guzzling tankers to Europe to be refined, shipped again to China to be turned into nickel powder, and shipped again to Japan to be turned into a battery and shipped again to the US to be placed in a car. Not very clean, or efficient; and very energy demanding.

[noraklagrangian]

If batteries run out, replace it. In its ten year history only one Prius has needed battery replacement and that was caused by an electrician accidentally destroying the battery while installing a stereo system. In real life there are Priuses with over 250,000 miles still on its original batteries. Most transmissions stuff up before that.

[noraklagrangian]

What is perceived as fact depends on where you get the information. Peer-reveiwed scientific data shows that the hybrid is cleaner because it makes up for its higher energy initial production costs from savings during driving. Research it for yourself. There is data from MIT to confirm it.

[117wolf]

The batteries regardless will need to be changed. They will break down, and they will need to be replaced. All batteries succumb to this inevitability, and the self life of a lithium-ion battery is adversely affected by temperature and age. Which is kind of funny because a car is at continues exposure to the elements.

[noraklagrangian]

I never claimed the batteries will last forever. Like I said, there are Priuses taxis with 250,000 miles on the odometer. Most Americans do about 10,000 miles per year, which means that for the average American your Prius's batteries will last for longer than 25 years assuming these taxis performances are representative of the average Prius's performance. Toyota claims that they expect the batteries to last for the life of the car.

[jsnip4]

Wait until the 2008 model comes out and can get OVER 100mpg due to the different batteries they will be using. For $5000 you can get the batteries for older models but the 2008 models will come with them from the factory. I for one will be using the Prius soley on the batteries since I only work a few miles away.

[HAL11000]

Where did you learn about the 2008 prius?

[jtwerp]

The smelting plant that produces the nickel for hybrid batteries has made miles of forest uninhabitable and causes severe acid rain.

The new EPA estimates claim only 45 mpg for the Prius, any small diesel can top that.

The Prius is insanely slow and it's eco friendly tires offer dangerously little grip.

Why give gullable idiots that bought this POS special priveledges and tax breaks?

[bartjebeltegoed]

The story is 40 years old, not actual now. And nickel is used for many allows like stainless steel (NiCrMo). Most of the cars on the road contain nickel.

Indeed, a SMALL diesel. I can't fit in a small diesel, let alone, 4 of me.

It has 113BHP, and 478Nm of torque, of which 400Nm directly available at 0rpm. Does 0-60 in 10.3sec.

The tires are just standard michelin tires, like on many different cars.

[noraklagrangian]

Prius gets 45mpg and diesels can top that simply because the Prius is a petrol car not a diesel car, and since diesels have different price per liter and in most engines pollute more it's not really comparable. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, so it makes more sense to use diesel there. BMW showed a diesel hybrid but so far there is no mass produced diesel hybrid.

[PASHTUNVILLE]

ENVY US

[cngp71]

California Air Resource Board did not allow hybrids in the car pool lane initially. It was only after strong automaker (Toyota) lobying that the Prius was accepted in to the solo lane. I still have the article cngforum dot com slash articles slash carb slash ARBFAQ1 dot html

[cngp71]

California Air Resource Board did not allow hybrids in the car pool lane initially. It was only after strong automaker (Toyota) lobying that the Prius was accepted in to the solo lane. I still have the article www dot cngforum dot com slash articles slash carb slash ARBFAQ1 dot html

[danieldiasm]

A lot of lie, this is the petrol industries trying to make the Hybrids image dirty..i don't this this guys are thinking on their healt but in theirs money...

[Piety]

Yeah, I don't think they should get to use the high occupancy lanes because there is only one person in the car. The whole point of the HOV lane is to reduce traffic, not emissions.

[ManRayDali]

Actually, it is intended to reduce BOTH traffic and emissions. Not all hybrids are allowed, either. Only models that get 40mpg or more. Allowing them HOV access was also only a temporary action to help the new cleaner cars gain a foothold in the market. Here in CA I think the HOV access for hybrids was only for a certain number of cars 200,000? & they will reach that # within the next year unless they extend it.

[Piety]

That's right, but they way it intends to reduce emissions is to lower the number of cars on the road. That's right, the HOV lanes provide two benefits, lowered traffic and lowered emissions. However, when it's a car full of people vs 5 cars on the road, the car full of people wins even if it's going against 5 hybrids.

[WideOfVision]

Well, not really. First off, most users of the HOV lanes usually have the minimum number which is often just two people. Real hybrids using the Toyota Synergy System can run on just the electric motor (Hondas have a small power assist motor and are not really hybrids). While moving in commute traffic the Prius can go along for miles on the electric motor emitting ZERO emissions. So, it is possible to compare the Prius to two or three other cars on the road and the Prius would still be cleaner.

[Piety]

My dads prius doesn't seem to go along for miles on just the electric motor. Only does it for a minute when it pulls away from a stoplight. Isn't going stop and go in the hov lane kind of defeating the purpose of having an hov lane?

[WideOfVision]

Well it depends on the speed and how heavy your foot is on the pedal. Avoid jack rabbit starts. In a Prius it really pays off, and coasting to a stop also is a plus because it doesn't use gas while coasting. It almost like a game to slowly pick up speed and see how fast you can get it moving before the engine kicks in.

[Piety]

Yeah, I've spent some time in Prius forums reading about all the different ways to trick the car to run off the electric motor. The important thing to remember is that all the juice that charges the battery comes from the gasoline.

[WideOfVision]

Yes, but it is still more efficient. And it's not much of a trick. Drivers just need to behave and try doing the actual speed limit instead of racing around everywhere. Going 60 to 65 on the freeway is going to get you 50+mpg.