The pineal gland is your light receptor. It is the place you find "God" or true light. The "coming of Jesus" is found in mediation, not in some world event. They don't talk about it in today's world because they don't want you to wake up and realize that CHRIST IS IN YOU that YOU HAVE THE POWER NOW. OH no..they want you to keep looking for events in the world and continue to be distracted away from the 'TRUE LIGHT' found in the pineal gland in meditation. Scoff all you want, Pharisee.
And no drugs , tabaco or alcool. You have to stay straight ;-) , walk bare footed especially on this planet to get energy from the central core, sungazing (1-5) minutes at your own paste , 30 minutes before sunset or 20 minutes at sunrise is a great tool to help opening up your pineal gland. Tapping on the back of your skull with your fingers = I HAVE A VIDEO ON HOW TO DO IT.
-Fluoride, toxicities in your body and old silver tooth fillings (mercury ), all of these calcifies the pineal gland ! Clean your body of toxicities, eat natural foods; fish with lemon juice, veggies, nuts without salt, pure honey (sugar of the gods ), drink lots of fresh water, alot of fruits ( rises your vibrations) not to much meat and the meat has to come from good pastures = less fear inside the meat ! No process foods = lowers your vibrations. With these simple steps= right path !!!
@DopeBraiin Spring water! Otherwise Water that has been triple Reverse Omosis! Get a econo blue water cooler! Anything but the sink water! And most bottled water is from the city water Supply!
its funny how the pine cone in the vatican is immature and green its a spit in the face everyday people who the vatican wishes to keep their 3rd eyes in that state immature and young,wake up people the best ways to open your third eye is through eating natural plants like mushrooms, ayahuasca and any DMT based substances which alot of tribes especially in south america still use, put down the alcohol peeps its only pushed onto u because alcohol lets u intake bad spirits while drunk hence spirits
was watching another video on pineal gland on youtube,it came to the vatican bit i said to myself this is bull,all of a sudden there was 3 bangs one off the roof ,one the front,and one the back door.went to each place and there lying one the ground was 3 green pine cones,funny thing is i dont live near pine trees and there was little wind
egyptians knew how to train themselves to initiate activity in the pineal gland which in turn allowed them to access different dimensions. the fourth dimension. we currently live in the third which is space/time. many people were initiated but only a few actually learned how to do this. jesus was one of them.
thats part or one of the secret that mystery schools taught.
@liquidbokii88 watch this video watch?v=Ij1-8I7mmNU&feature=related starting at 3:07.
egyptians embedded this knowledge in their creations to not lose this precious knowledge. while the elites illumniati vatican whoever they are have been actively suppressing this knowledge. using the ability to communicate with beings of different dimensions to their own advantage
rise in consciousness = being aware of what quantum physics is telling us today. there are multiple dimensions in our universe
@jochoa333@jochoa333 - It is called "Satanic Ritual Abuse" - Jesus did not in any way, form or manner have to participate in this most fiendish and devilish of practices! That is reserved for workers of the occult like the Freemasons and others! All it does is give you direct access to demons - nothing else!!
Having taken Saliva Divinorum and Ayahusaca many time's I have had all my hate and worry and every other negativething removed from my being,my world is a lot better for it.and you say it give's you nothing,it is you that know's nothing,yes it show's you demon's,demon's which you destroy,Jesus ate Magic Mushroom's look in Exodus it's the true sacrament, what you take today is a sacrilege.rice paper and plonk,it's a joke.
Are you suggesting that we should all know about the powers of DMT and the 3rd eye? It is like you want society to stop because it will if we all know who we rlly are. The point of our existence is to feel seperate and not ONE as ONE is lonely
@MrTasfoolia Wow so you want to live a LIE created by everyone above you. If the Vati-fuck know this shit they should release it, are they not from God? and god loves us.
Simply this is how you realize SOCIETY is fucked and the thing holding us back
ADAM AND EVE the firsty 2 ppl. When they were standing in the garden did they classify themselves as a society? fuck no. It was just them, people living together working together.
fuck a society all it will do is bring you down with it
The Pope is a dress wearing thief. The Vatican stole the religion, rituals, and knowledge of the African Priestesses. They were called Sibyls. Sif, Thors black wife was one. King David's Queen of Sheba was one too. In fact the Greek Tragedies are all about some Caucasoid usurping an African Queen from her position of power. The Sibyls were sought after because they had the gift of prophecy. This made the Captains & Kings (of battle) more advantageous during wartime. She could coach him.
Im ramesh from Tamilnadu.India.Though its nice and people are well aware of it but this material world makes them not to think of what the real spritual and divine life is..
The Pineal gland is key to reaching enlightenment, of freeing the soul from earthly bounds, Catholicism is nothing more than Shamanism, hence they have water fountainjs in St peters Square that are nothing more than "mushrooms" in fact they are one amanita muscaria mushroom standing on top of another symbolising the recycling of the halucynagenic properties ofv the mushroom when eaten and passed through urine. (Jesus turned water into wine) amber nectar in fact and that is where that come from
and to the question why it is in the Vatican? i tell you why, because not every citizens of every country is so ignorant an uneducated as americans so they appreciated art, arts of any and every form. and they knew what art is/was. but if you grew up in usa, you wudnt know any art, unless your grand-ma' was babysitting you and you had nothing better to do than watching antique road show, probably you wud have been exposed to some kinda art. but i doubt. mystery resolved, now go do the dishes.
wow, there is a piece of art in the vatican..wow, you got a picture of it and you organized a luncheon to talk about a piece of art. wow, you just uncovered the great conspiracy. wow, your such an intelligent and smart, and well spoken person. wow, want more wows? wow, there ya go.. very smart of those who attended the Hilton and payed probably $80-100 just to shit there and listen to nonsense. too much time at hands, dont know what to do with your boring american middle class life?
@eiwaz and sometimes you need to crack it open fill it wit some herb roll ur self a blunt and smoke up..hopfully opening ur mind to look past the cover and see whats really there....seek out the man behind the curtain... is toto smarter then you?
@hardhatg69 It's a freaking pine cone. A reference to the evergreen and everlasting life, you know, like the Christmas tree. It has absolutely nothing to do with the pineal gland. What utter rubbish. Is it a pagan symbol? Hell yeah. Saying it's a pineal gland is laughable.
@Puz1r the pineal gland is not satan, satan is not real these people whom calls themselves truthers believe in religion therefore aren't truthers because religion is not truth its bullshit
ancient sumerian/babylonian art has a pine cone held to the leaders heads. Egyptian pharoes had a snake at their pineal. The Vatican is Satans workshop, no doubt
2 minutes of my life I'll never get back... Feel sorry for all the idiots who wasted their time, effort, energy and money attending to hear whatever failed point this dumb ass is trying to make.
@PatternsInTheIvy2 According to me and many others the Vatican leads the pack in satanic worship and leading the common man astray. Fertility my foot! Try lack of fertility ... of mind, soul and matter and all in between.
@PawSoxMom FIrst, try not to start off with "according to me", that instantly destroys any and all credibility the words that follow may have. And second, I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, simply relaying a tidbit of information I was told that I thought some might find intriguing.
@PatternsInTheIvy2 Excuse me? Who's opinion would you like me to give? I have discussed this matter with many people and I was giving my feedback on the subject. The Vatican is a satanic cult that lies to the people. The burning of Rome was a false flag event like 9/11 was. The Romans are still out to conquer the world in the form of the Vatican; they just regrouped in the form of a religion to manipulate the people with guilt and fear. The pope is merely the Roman Emperor.
@PawSoxMom Are you out of your mind? You're seriously implying that the Vatican is a satanic cult? There is no evidence for that what so ever besides conjecture that is supported by no credible researchers, and David Icke is not a credible researcher. The Vatican is a beacon of light, it is the center of Christendom, and has been for almost 2,000 years. If you have something more than "according to me" or these ludacris inferences that you nut jobs make maybe I'll listen.
@donvizz7th No, I am not out of my mind. But you are rude and ignorant to be name -calling. And I never mentioned Icke. Look, I am sorry to have blown your illusion, but the Vatican is evil. Do your homework and you will find that out. Start with looking in to what happened to Lucia dos Santos a/k/a Sister Lucy. The Vatican murdered the real Sr Lucy in Oct. 1958 to prevent her from revealing the real 3rd secret. The real 3rd secret was that the church was corrupt & foretold of the sex scandals
@PawSoxMom Ok first off, I have not found a single credible researcher that backs up that claim. Second of all, most of the articles I did read had nothing to do with a sex scandal, they had to do with the fall of communism, a third world war, and the shooting of Pope John Paul II. Also to think that the Vatican murdered Sister Lucy and put someone else in there is ridiculous! It's actually quite funny to think about if you ask me. I can't even entertain such an absurd claim.
@PawSoxMom well thats not exactly a secret man, countless popes have been involved in sex scandals, right now rodrigo de borgia comes to mind, he was one corrupt fucker that tried to manipulate all of Mediterranean Europe through marriages with his children, threats and bribes.
@sexidolofsatan True, but many people are not aware of the real history of the Vatican. They have gone to great lengths to put a lid on it and many practicing Christian's have no idea of what is really happening. It's a hard landing to wake up to for many. Some may never see it because of their devotion to Christ that they transfer as a devotion to the Church.
Who actually designed and built the Vatican layout? Was it a group of stonemasons? They did so many aspects of it with Egyptian and Masonic + pagan elements, it must have been a group of Freemasons or people well-connected to some kind of lodge of knowledge. The whole place is a gigantic Key of Solomon for chrissakes.
@SandThruFingers no. it wasn't one person" or one organization, these statues and such were "gifts" if you get me of distant lands that the vaticans "love" reached
@sexidolofsatan Hhhm, well that is somewhat true, as with the obelisks that were taken from Egypt, etc but the entire design and LAYOUT were not imports, they were designed and layed out right there, by medieval European craftsmen. I just would like to know more about who was directly involved with that. I realize it was over a long time period and probably crap tons of people.
....ESV....Isreal is a luxuriant vine. This is what you get from a bible that uses the Septuigent as a text for the Old Testament. Get a Holy Bible, rather than a clever facsimily.
@vachief Well, the only thing I can say about the Septuagint is that in a great many places, that is the version used by the Apostles themselves. So if it was good enough for the Holy Spirit (and the Septuagint is far older than the Masoretic Texts that we still have) then it's good enough for me. I find that the ESV makes more sense of these texts, truth be told.
@mjt1517 ...Do you think it's a good idea to teach that the " wicked prosper at all times?" The Septuigent was manufactured in 250 AD not BC as many would have you believe. The idea that Jesus read from this Greek document or the Apostles is ridiculous as they had the Hebrew right in front of them. The Hebrew text goes back to the time of Moses who wrote the first 5 books.
@vachief That Scripture mentions the wicked prospering as a scoff, not as a good thing. If the LXX was written after the apostles wrote, how do you explain them using it in their OT quotations? I never said Jesus used the LXX, but the apostles most certainly did. And there may have been times the apostles had the Hebrew in front of them, but there may very well have been times when they had the LXX in front of them. Either way, they used exact quotes from the LXX.
@vachief (Of course, Jesus could very well have known how to read Greek, since it was the lingua franca of the 1st century. He COULD have had a familiarity with this translation.)
I researched the pineal gland because of my personal experiences. I had strong deja vu experiences when I was a teenager. I could see the exact sight and sounds of non important events and I know that i'm not alone on this. Look at the artificial chemicals purposely put into place in society. Fluoride, aluminum oxide, lead, mercury, etc. These all block the higher functions of the brain. Ancient people discovered or were shown that the pineal gland can tap into other dimensions or communication.
Modern relligions seperate us we should find new gods who unite us. why not pick the sun or the earth when it comes to all its about respect to the nature and eachother im goin to take some DMT and see if that pinealgland stuff is for real maybe i will get less confused then.its like the world gone mad facist and nazis sitting on all the major coporations what are they up to. what are we goin to do when they own everithing.
This man hasnt considered (or ignored) Romes building traditions, it made public works representing all its victories, and as the church took over Rome they did the same, it is Bible 'conquered' Egypt in stone monuments.
All traditions look back at previous empires and emulate their styles, we still do it now with many era's architectural styles, from Greece onwards, its a way of saying "we are a great as our predessors" or, showing off. This reasoning must also be taken into consideration
Whoo, this man has clearly not considered Romes traditions, it made public works representing their victories, and as the church took over from the Ceasers theyt became the masters and 'conquered Egypt with the Bible, all traditions look back at previous ones and emulate their styles, we still do it not with many era's architeture
@dortyhoor ...When I toured Rome, our guide took us to various churches of the medevil period. He showed us an interesting statue of "Moses", carved by Michealangelo, the statue had horns on it's head. lol Rome has a penchant for Egyptian symbolism, a lot of it within the Vatican, even thier bible is derived from the Alexandrian texts, such as the Septuigent.
@dortyhoor ..lol...that was good. I do find it interesting how Christianity was hi-jacked by Egyptian spritualism in the early days, of course all this was front page news 500 years ago during the Reformation and Inquisition.
@dortyhoor No, no, no...the horns aren't even horns. It's a sculpted representation of glory shining from Moses. This is a pretty standard and mundane understanding of that statue. C'mon son.
@mjt1517 ..I've stood 3 feet from the statue....they are horns similar to that of young male sheep. That is a terribly weak explanation, altough I can imagine someone making that up.
@vachief Well even if Michelangelo intended to portray horns on a human, I would think that shows Michelangelo's misunderstanding rather than the possibility that Moses had horns growing out of his head. Don't you think?
@mjt1517 ...The first point is...Moses, like any other man did not have horns. The second point is the disregard for the 10 Commandments concerning graven images. The third point is that the statue is some pagan god and not Moses at all. Rome is full of pagan/occult symbolism, I had a chance to view much of it while I was there.
@vachief Well...the command was actually against bowing down to graven images. I'm not sure how many people have actually worshipped that statue as an idol. (Fantastic work...I wish I could sculpt like that! Michelangelo's hands must have been made of iron by the end of his career.) Ok...so if it's a pagan god, then maybe they're horns. Pan, perhaps? Does it have goat hooves for feet? Anyone take a peek up his robe? ;)
@mjt1517 ...Here is the command, just the first half...." Thou shalt Not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness ...of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4 The second half has to do with worshiping objects. To be honest I did find the statue quite wierd, but then again who knows about the theological beliefs of Michelangelo or for that matter the Pope that hired him.
@vachief Well, that's just the first half. The complete command is against making images that you bow down to and serve. Idols, plain and simple. The command is obviously not forbidding the MAKING of images, since there are images all over the Temple and even the Ark of the Covenant. We have to use near and far contexts or we make a muddled mess of the text at hand. Also, we wouldn't get far in life without making any images. And we certainly couldn't watch YouTube videos. :)
@mjt1517 ...You might have a point if God had not included the word....Graven. To understand the word in context you could go threw the 60 or so references in the KJV. Onlyy during times of apostacy did the isrealites make graven images. The only portion of Christianity that made graven images was Catholicism and Orthodoxy..now even much of Protestantism makes pictures of God.
@vachief Threw? KJV? Why just the KJV? I use the ESV. You have to take the second part of the command. You can't truncate it. Again, the Temple was full of images. And the lid of the Ark even had two angels perched on top looking at the top of the lid. Angels are from heaven, so how is this allowable if there are to be no images? Graven or not...are you telling me that if an image isn't graven, then this prohibition doesn't apply? Please...you define "graven" for us here.
@mjt1517 ..The KJV is a majority text bible, all modern speech bibles are translated from a minority ext type. I wasn't truncating, the first half specifically commands not to make them. The word graven means an object of veneration or worship as in God or gods, public figures of reknown, that sort of thing. Read about the iconoclasts in the 16th century as part of the reformation. The mercy seat was only seen by the high priest once a year and it was a specific instruction from God.
@vachief Well, I don't give any creedance to KJV onlyism. Sorry. If that's your criteria for authority, then we'll have to part ways right now. And graven simply means something man made...like a stone idol...or a painting of a lady holding flowers. If you cover up the second half of the verse, then we can't make any images at all. And that's not the intention of this commandment. I'm familiar with the Iconoclasts, having come from their tradition. They didn't smash all images. Just idols.
@vachief It wasn't just the mercy seat. In Solomon's Temple, there were bulls holding up the laver. And there were other images woven into the fabrics used in the Tabernacle and the Temple. So it wasn't just one image that was only seen once a year. These counterfactuals show us that it's not just art objects that are prohibited, but art objects that are specifically used as idols. Which is why we need the second half of the command...it explains and completes the first part.
@mjt1517 ..The temple had furniture but no images aside from those on the mercy seat and were never seen by the general public. Pictures of your family, your passport, wedding pictures, etc,etc, do not fall into the catagory of graven. If you have a picture of Jesus in your living room...that is a graven image, as are the paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel.
@vachief Again, this is simply false. The Temple displayed bulls, cherubs (in addition to the two on the Ark. There were also giant cherubim statues in the holy place in the later temples, but since these are tucked away, we'll not count them here), palm trees, and pomegranates. Oh, yes...and the menorah was fashioned to resemble almond branches.
@vachief Which would be the reason they are counterfactuals. These shape our understanding of that commandment. They're not some sly exception..."Don't make images...OH! Except for these few things over here...pay no attention to that!" No. It's because the prohibition ISN'T against making images, but bowing down to them. Scripture interprets Scripture. We have principle A...and example B...example B sheds light on principle A. Taken together, they form the full picture.
@vachief Sure enough it does. But that's not where the command stops. It says not to make images in order to bow down to them. Clearly God is not against making images, since He prescribed images for the Temple. Cherubim, bulls, seraphim, almond branches, palm trees, pomegranates, etc. These are all IMAGES found in the Tabernacle and the Temple. It's similar to the command against killing. We know that's not an absolute command, since God commands war and the death penalty.
@mjt1517 ...The difference is that God commanded it, he has that latitude. God commanded the Isrealites to kill men, women and children, we on the other hand do not possess that kind of authority. I just love horses...I think I'll carve a big statue of a horse in tribute to the horse. That is worldly thinking...that is what the world does....we are commanded to reject it.
@vachief Actually, we DO indeed have the authority to kill. Not in the sense of the Canaanite extermination. But cops have authority to kill if they're threatened with deadly force. The State has the authority to execute criminals guilty of capital offenses. I have the authority to kill a home invader. And the soldier has authority to kill on the battlefield. The prohibition against murder does not prohibit ALL killing. Just as the prohibition against making idols does not prohibit ALL images.
@mjt1517 ..Yeah...I agree, defending yourself or others from a deadly confrontation is not what the commandment is about, your not expected to stand there and be slaughtered. Capital punishment however is not authorized, they can be locked up to remove the threat, you can't kill people because they are vile as they are Gods property.
@vachief Excuse me? Capital punishment is NOT authorized? Just how much of that Bible have you read? Capital punishment is commanded by God through Moses in Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus. Jesus Himself even expected the law concerning the execution of those who revile their parents to be followed. Capital punishment is more than authorized, it's demanded. In some cases there is no other option BUT to execute an offender. It is GOD who gave us the commands regarding capital punishment.
@mjt1517 ....I disagree, the portion of the law that called for an eye for an eye, died at the cross. Jesus said... love your niehbour as yourself...that is kinda hard to do with a rope around his neck. Likewise we no longer stone women for adultery and that was a capital crime in the day of Moses, no less sinfull than murder. That is Catholic theology your talking...minor and major sins.
@vachief It most certainly did not die at the cross. The debt that stood against us died at the cross, but the Law continues until the coming of the New Heavens and New Earth. Matthew 5 says precisely that. Paul, AFTER the crucifixion also says in Romans 13 that the governing authorities do not bear the sword in vain. He also said on one occasion that if he had done anything deserving death, he would go without complaint. Jesus rescued that woman from a mistrial. Where was the man?
@mjt1517 ..The moral law continues....the 10 Commandments, the cerimonial law ceased at the cross and was represented in the temple when the viel was torn in half. The handwriting of ordanances was nailed to the cross. Col. 2:4 and Eph. 2:15-16.
@vachief The ceremonial laws continue on in the Person of Christ. He is the sacrifice. He is the Temple. He is the High Priest. The old form has been resurrected and elevated in Christ, but it's still there. So much so that we ALL are considered priests of God offering sacrifices. The form has changed, but the principles of the ceremonial laws continue and will at least until the end of this present order.
@mjt1517 ..Yes...I agree that Jesus is the High Priest and that we belong to the priesthood of believers. Jesus said that....." Ye are the temple" as he refered to himself on this earth.
@vachief The true veil that was torn was the flesh of Jesus on the cross. See Hebrews, please. It wasn't the ordinances that were nailed, but the debt that stood against us...in other words, our guilt...that was crucified with Christ. The ordinances remain, otherwise we could sin with impunity since there would be NO LAW. And if there IS no law, then how is it that even the ten commandments remain? Those would have been nailed to the cross as well, since those are the summary of what we broke.
@mjt1517 ....." Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances....nailing it to the cross." Col. 2:14 "Having abolished......even the law of commandments contained in ordinances...." Eph.2:15 The reason why God tore the temple veil, was to mark the end of the sacrificial law and ceremonies.
@vachief God made [you] alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. THIS he set aside, nailing it to the cross. Col 2:14 (He canceled our guilt, not the legal demands of the Law. Even Paul, in Romans, says we ESTABLISH the Law by faith.)
@mjt1517 ....There is a distinction between the moral law and the ceremonial law...do you agree? It looks to me as if you are bundling them together. The handwriting of ordinaces is part of the ceremonial law and was abolished at the cross, as the Holy Bible states that. We are still guilty, but it won't be held against us because of our faith.
@vachief There are, in fact, three divisions of the Law. Ceremonial, moral, and civil. The ceremonial has been fulfilled in Christ. It's not over, though. It's changed forms. We are priests in the order of Melchizadek. And priests are not without service to a Temple. Our Temple is Christ. We offer sacrifices of praise. We offer the incense of prayer. These are not merely poetic flourishes. They are the real ceremony of the NT Church. We even eat with the High Priest in the Lord's Supper.
@vachief The moral law...can anyone claim we are NOT to follow the ten commandments as followers...as students...of the very Christ who said He did NOT come to anull the Law? The Christ who said not even a JOT of the Law would fall away while the heavens and the Earth remain? And this includes the civil law with its punitive commands. We have no authority to say these laws are now nullified after Christ has said they remain until the end.
@mjt1517 ...Yeah...The Assembly of God for instance...they keep telling me to ..." Get out from under the law". ...as if the 10 Commandments were no longer in effect.
@vachief I used to be in the Assembly of God. That's where I was baptized. The church I was in seemed to have a balanced view of the Law as far as the ten commandments were concerned. So much so that several of my friends were worried that they lost their salvation every time they sinned. I guess it depends on which church you go to in that denomination.
@mjt1517 ..Yes ..The Hal Lindsey crowd, I'm quite familiar with them, there the ones beating the drum to attack Iran as if we weren't bogged down with enough warfare already. I wonder if Hal ever served in a front line unit.
@vachief You lost me on the Hal Lindsey reference. I know who he is, but I fail to see how he fits into this. He's against applying biblical law to modern courts, just like you.
@mjt1517 ..Hal has been the cheerleader for the AOGs view on biblical prophesy for over 40 years. Believe me... you don't want to live in a theocracy, even a Christian one, you think were squabling now?...see what happens when church and state unite.
@vachief Well, I'm a Christian Reconstructionist. I believe the State should adopt biblical Law as the law of the land. I believe theocracy is inescapable. If we're not ruled by God's Law, we will be ruled by the humanist god of the month, which is what we have now. True Christian theocracy wouldn't involve a fusion of Church and State. The Church has strict limits set upon its authority and it's not allowed to intrude on State matters. Inform, yes. But not intrude.
@mjt1517 ..Your scaring me brother....I don't want the state explaining the Bible to me. I'll do what I think is best according to my conscience, rather than have Pat Robertson decide what is best for me. Do you see my point? What people do with thier lives is up to them, it is not our place to legislate biblical morality on them. Christianity is not a religion of force like Islam or Romanism.
@vachief The State WOULDN'T explain the Bible to you. Where did you get that idea? The State has no authority to interpret Scripture. Moses did say that the neighboring pagan nations would look at the Law and appreciate its wisdom. This is what would happen if all were right with the world. The State would adopt Mosaic Law as the law of the land because of the righteous justice contained in it. Remember...the penal code came from GOD'S wisdom. Not Man's wisdom.
@vachief Pat Robertson isn't an agent of the State. Whose law would you rather have ruling over you? God's just Law or humanist Man's sinful law? Seems rather obvious to me. Do you think God was wrong when he said rapists should be put to death? What about witches?
@mjt1517 ..As long as the secular law of the land does not interfere with my freedom to pursue a biblical lifestyle..no sweat. It is my belief that Pat Robertson or another like him....would in fact interfere with my religious views. He thinks he knows what is best for people, and would try to legislate morality...according to scripture it is not our place to use coercion....but provide example only.
@vachief Well, under a biblical scheme of crime and punishment, you would not be interfered with. Unless you want to practice lawlessness. You don't plan on raping, kidnapping, performing gay sex acts, committing adultery, sleeping with relatives, practicing witchcraft, anytime soon, I trust. ;) It's for these law breakers that the Law was made for. Not for law keepers, so just as today, if you keep your nose clean you have nothing to worry about.
@vachief Well, the State does use coercion for law breakers. It does today, too. Caging people for decades who steal? What kind of crap is that? We're not animals. And WE as individual Christians are surely meant to live out the Scriptures and provide an example of righteous living. But the State can't do that. The State has to leave law keepers alone and allow them to prosper unhindered. Or it has to punish evil doers, just as Romans says. The State isn't the Church.
@mjt1517 ..I trust the Law of God. According to the book of Revelation...the attributes of the saved of mankind are described thusly......." Those that keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus." I believe those words and endeaver to keep Gods Commandments to the very best of my ablity, as well as following all the guidance that Jesus spoke. That is why I could not be a prison executioner, nor would I ask that of another.
@vachief Well, I see several, several passages in the bible that call for death as a penalty for certain crimes. So while you may ignore those passages, I cannot. Now, only the State is authorized to carry out executions (Romans 13:1-4) so I cannot and do not look for opportunities to "carry out" some kind of vigilante justice. That would also be a breach of His commandments. But I do expect the State to do so. Sadly, they do not in our modern era. I believe one day they will. Just not now.
@vachief If the outward form of circumcision is abolished, which the Council of Jerusalem in Acts clearly shows it is abolished, then it's no longer in effect. Therefore, I am NOT guilty of breaking that law, since it's day is over. The new circumcision IS in effect and if I seek to avoid submitting to it, then I AM guilty of breaking God's NT ceremony regarding that sign and seal of the New Covenant. Same with any OT vs NT ceremonial rite.
@vachief He himself is our peace, who has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace... Eph 2:15. This shows that the outward form of the ceremonial law is defunct. Specifically circumcision. Rather than requiring the Gentiles to adopt Jewish forms of worship, he instead removed those forms.
@vachief But your point in these passages was meant to show the penal code was removed. They do no such thing. In fact, there ARE NO PASSAGES in the NT that show the penal code was revoked. If anything, we need them desperately today. I'll agree we do not sacrifice goats and bulls or burn incense. But we do still sacrifice as priests and carry on ceremonial customs in the NT Church. They are spiritual. But they are still under the category of ceremony and sacrifice. We serve a greater Temple.
@vachief The man was to be stoned right along with the woman, but there was only the woman. Also, the event clearly was a setup and Jesus knew it. Because of that, it was a mistrial. Also, the accusers (Pharisees) were also guilty of adultery and anyone who's been guilty of a particular crime under the Law cannot be a witness against the accused. A mistrial. Jesus expected grown children who revile their parents to be put to death. It's not Catholic. It's New Testament.
@mjt1517 ..I'll really have to disagree....in the Old Testament capital punishment was handed out right then and there...in the New Testament capital punishment is reserved for the last day..." Vengence is mine...I will repay"... saith the Lord. Jesus was pointing out that the sins of the accusers was in fact equal to the woman, that's why they all slunked away. They were just as guilty.
@vachief The NT doesn't show that capital punishment is reserved for the Last Day. Although God Himself executed them, Ananias and Saphira were slain ON THE SPOT under the New Testament. Their deaths weren't pushed back to the final judgment. And, just as Jesus warned, within one generation, the Jews in Jerusalem who didn't heed His warning were all slaughtered in AD 70 by Titus and his army in the fall of Jerusalem. No waiting until the end there, either.
@vachief Neither were Babylon or Syria, and yet God picked them up and used them as His hammer of judgment on Israel and Judah. The foreign, pagan armies need not even believe in Yahweh for Yahweh to use them as His agents of wrath and destruction. You do believe God is sovereign over the nations, do you not? This IS just what Jesus prophesied would happen...that a foreign army would destroy the Temple and Jerusalem in Luke 21.
@mjt1517 ..I agree...God has used the heathen to carry out his work. There will always be people looking for the opporunity to kill others, we on the other hand are not those people. ...'Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, ...."
@vachief Correct. Our personal struggle is against demonic forces set loose in the world. Absolutely. This in itself, however, does not negate the death penalty. The State's struggle is not against demonic forces, but against flesh and blood criminals. We are not to confuse the roles various groups play. The Church has the keys of the kingdom, which punitively amount to excommunication, ultimately. The State may administer various punishments, including death.
@vachief Now, granted, these are judgments wrought by God's own direct hand and are not examples of humans executing humans. But your current claim in this post is that capital punishment is reserved for the Last Day. I just demonstrated this is clearly NOT the case. And yes, vengeance IS the Lord's. But it was also the Lord's under the Old Covenant, too. Yet, He demanded Israel to use capital punishment in that day, even though vengeance is HIS. Since it's His, he can authorize others to do it.
@mjt1517 ....I disagree.....there is no mandate for the execution of human beings under the New Covenant. Not a single verse in the New Testament to substantciate that idea. What you have stated is pure Catholic theology....the clergy used your arguements to murder hundreds of thousands of people because they were found to be heritics.
@vachief Actually, I've given you a good handful of verses to prove it's not the case that the NT never supports the idea of the death penalty. If you choose to disbelieve those verses, that's on you. It's not Catholic. I'm about as contrary to Catholicism as you can get. Also, the Church is 100% NOT the agent of capital punishment. The State is. The Church may only excommunicate, at most. And the State isn't authorized to judge theology, so there's no way they can execute simple heretics.
@vachief And yes, they were just as guilty. Which is why they didn't have legal footing to bring an accusation against that woman. It was a phoney trial designed to entrap Jesus. He saw through their shenanigans and forced a mistrial. What we DON'T see here is Jesus repealing the Law. Remember, Jesus didn't come to nullify the Law, but to fulfill it. And since He didn't come to nullify it, it goes on.
@mjt1517 ...I agree that Jesus did not repeal the law or nullify it....sin is sin, however the sentencing and punitive phase is carried out on the last day, in contrast to the Old Testament way of doing business. The fact that the sentance of death was not carried out proves my point. If she is found unworthy in the judgement ...she will certainly die, but we are not at that point yet.
@vachief The NT nowhere says the penal code is carried out on just the Last Day. I've TWICE provided evidence to the contrary but you've chosen to ignore it. So be it. Believe as you wish. It won't change the biblical truth of the matter. The sentence of death wasn't carried out because it was an unjust trial. The accusers were guilty of the same crime. There was no man. She was entrapped. Jesus saved her from an unjust court. He did not comment on the death penalty or its validity.
@vachief If Jesus did not repeal the Law, then it's still in force. And this includes the punitive laws. These are NEVER even hinted as being abolished or repealed by any of the NT writers or Jesus. To the contrary, I've given you enough instances in the NT to show Jesus AND Paul supported the idea of the death penalty when warranted.
@vachief I will post them once more. This is the third time. Please pay attention. I've read every word you've written. I expect the same courtesy from you. If you ignore them this time, I'm going to assume you just can't refute these passages...next post will be a repost from earlier.
@mjt1517 ...You did'nt give me a passage...you gave me chapter 5 in Matthew that I already agree with you on another chapter in Romans. Were I come from,if a person asks for some proof texts to substantiate a position it means a verse or verses...not the whole chapter. I'm trying to be as courteous as possible here...I'm a bible believer just like you.
@vachief It's a short chapter. You mean you can't be bothered to read a handful of verse to get to the relevant part? Very well. Matthew 5:17-20. Paul's ready submission to the death penalty if he deserved it: Acts 25:10-11. Jesus chastising the Pharisees for NOT taking one capital offense seriously: Mark 7:9-13. Paul's statement about the State and the sword: Romans 13:1-4. Do you need more? How many more until you believe it? One was enough for me.
@vachief Here's a bonus...Paul himself says our faith does NOT nullify the Law: Here's a bonus: Romans 3:27-31. (Note I am not saying we are saved by our obedience to the Law. This discussion has been about the continuing validity of the Law's penal sanctions. We are saved by grace through faith. THAT is a separate matter.)
@vachief Matthew 5 says the law is in effect until the Last Day. Romans 13 says the government doesn't bear the sword (the SWORD) in vain. Paul said on one occasion that if he had done anything worthy of death, he would submit to that penalty without complaint. Jesus upheld the validity of the death penalty against children who revile their parents. There are NO passages which repeal the death penalty or require the State to abstain from it or to forgive criminals.
@mjt1517 ...Why can't we just put killers in jail for the rest of thier lives, what is wrong with that? Would you kill a person because they broke the law? or would you expect someone else to do this work? A person in prison is no threat to me or anyone else...." Thou shall not kill." ...pretty simple. We live by the Holy Bible..not the Koran.
@vachief What's wrong with caging another human? When the Bible doesn't prescribe that punishment? Why do you look to the world for your ideas of crime and punishment? God is far wiser than Man, wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you also agree that HIS judgments in Scripture are righteous and just? Then why not follow HIS way rather than secular Man? That's my question. I trust God in these matters. (I also believe rape and other crimes should be punished by death, as God commanded.)
@vachief The truth of that commandment is that He commanded us not to MURDER. If He commanded not to kill, then He couldn't have expected the Israeli army to destroy Canaan. Nor could he expect the Israeli justice system to carry out His many different capital punishments on evildoers. And we couldn't protect ourselves against criminals who mean us harm. It's not about threat level. It's about justice. And when it comes to murderers, death is the prescribed punishment. Please trust God on this.
@vachief Also, your crack about living by the Holy Bible and not the Qu'ran...do you really need me to list all the capital punishments commanded by Yahweh through Moses in the Holy Bible? Are you not familiar with them? Perhaps you just haven't become aware of this side of God. Would you think anything different of Him if you realized that God even calls for the State to execute adulterers, rapists, kidnappers, people who engage in gay sex, witchcraft, etc? It's a big list.
The pineal gland is your light receptor. It is the place you find "God" or true light. The "coming of Jesus" is found in mediation, not in some world event. They don't talk about it in today's world because they don't want you to wake up and realize that CHRIST IS IN YOU that YOU HAVE THE POWER NOW. OH no..they want you to keep looking for events in the world and continue to be distracted away from the 'TRUE LIGHT' found in the pineal gland in meditation. Scoff all you want, Pharisee.
kansasisaband 6 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LOL this is so stupid
eilier 3 months ago
And no drugs , tabaco or alcool. You have to stay straight ;-) , walk bare footed especially on this planet to get energy from the central core, sungazing (1-5) minutes at your own paste , 30 minutes before sunset or 20 minutes at sunrise is a great tool to help opening up your pineal gland. Tapping on the back of your skull with your fingers = I HAVE A VIDEO ON HOW TO DO IT.
3nlighted 3 months ago
-Fluoride, toxicities in your body and old silver tooth fillings (mercury ), all of these calcifies the pineal gland ! Clean your body of toxicities, eat natural foods; fish with lemon juice, veggies, nuts without salt, pure honey (sugar of the gods ), drink lots of fresh water, alot of fruits ( rises your vibrations) not to much meat and the meat has to come from good pastures = less fear inside the meat ! No process foods = lowers your vibrations. With these simple steps= right path !!!
3nlighted 3 months ago 3
what do i drink then?
DopeBraiin 4 months ago
@DopeBraiin Spring water! Otherwise Water that has been triple Reverse Omosis! Get a econo blue water cooler! Anything but the sink water! And most bottled water is from the city water Supply!
charlesrosaly 1 month ago
this pineal symbol also sits atop of every fire emergency boxes in new york.
Esotericintense 4 months ago
Stop brushing your teeth.. Prevents enlightenment!
blkpanther15 4 months ago
There is also an enormous obelisk in front of Saint Peter's Square
clovismcpony 5 months ago
its funny how the pine cone in the vatican is immature and green its a spit in the face everyday people who the vatican wishes to keep their 3rd eyes in that state immature and young,wake up people the best ways to open your third eye is through eating natural plants like mushrooms, ayahuasca and any DMT based substances which alot of tribes especially in south america still use, put down the alcohol peeps its only pushed onto u because alcohol lets u intake bad spirits while drunk hence spirits
auspol04 5 months ago
was watching another video on pineal gland on youtube,it came to the vatican bit i said to myself this is bull,all of a sudden there was 3 bangs one off the roof ,one the front,and one the back door.went to each place and there lying one the ground was 3 green pine cones,funny thing is i dont live near pine trees and there was little wind
Slavestothesystem 5 months ago
he shouldn't refer to marijuana as something that makes one think irrationally
spellgrounds 6 months ago
The pinael Gland is used in Astral Projection
marbaramerika 8 months ago
#siriusSaturday Pinecones? Y do you HIGHER UPS like Pinecones? COURT OF THE PINECONE?? SHENANIGANS.
djdabblin 9 months ago
egyptians knew how to train themselves to initiate activity in the pineal gland which in turn allowed them to access different dimensions. the fourth dimension. we currently live in the third which is space/time. many people were initiated but only a few actually learned how to do this. jesus was one of them.
thats part or one of the secret that mystery schools taught.
jochoa333 10 months ago 5
@jochoa333 oh ... my god !
this is EXACTLY my thought !
how ... ?
I KNEW IM NOT CRAZY !
thank you !
liquidbokii88 10 months ago
@liquidbokii88 watch this video watch?v=Ij1-8I7mmNU&feature=related starting at 3:07.
egyptians embedded this knowledge in their creations to not lose this precious knowledge. while the elites illumniati vatican whoever they are have been actively suppressing this knowledge. using the ability to communicate with beings of different dimensions to their own advantage
rise in consciousness = being aware of what quantum physics is telling us today. there are multiple dimensions in our universe
jochoa333 10 months ago 3
@jochoa333 @jochoa333 - It is called "Satanic Ritual Abuse" - Jesus did not in any way, form or manner have to participate in this most fiendish and devilish of practices! That is reserved for workers of the occult like the Freemasons and others! All it does is give you direct access to demons - nothing else!!
TheBestlaidschemes 8 months ago
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1952YOU1320TUBE1952 6 months ago
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1952YOU1320TUBE1952 6 months ago
@TheBestlaidschemes
Having taken Saliva Divinorum and Ayahusaca many time's I have had all my hate and worry and every other negativething removed from my being,my world is a lot better for it.and you say it give's you nothing,it is you that know's nothing,yes it show's you demon's,demon's which you destroy,Jesus ate Magic Mushroom's look in Exodus it's the true sacrament, what you take today is a sacrilege.rice paper and plonk,it's a joke.
n
1952YOU1320TUBE1952 6 months ago
this 2 min clip is utterly without a point.....
2010fulk 10 months ago
@2010fulk hey, have you heard the new lady gaga song yet? i like talk shows and i want to become famous and rich one day. how about you?
liquidbokii88 10 months ago
Are you suggesting that we should all know about the powers of DMT and the 3rd eye? It is like you want society to stop because it will if we all know who we rlly are. The point of our existence is to feel seperate and not ONE as ONE is lonely
MrTasfoolia 10 months ago
@MrTasfoolia Wow so you want to live a LIE created by everyone above you. If the Vati-fuck know this shit they should release it, are they not from God? and god loves us.
Simply this is how you realize SOCIETY is fucked and the thing holding us back
ADAM AND EVE the firsty 2 ppl. When they were standing in the garden did they classify themselves as a society? fuck no. It was just them, people living together working together.
fuck a society all it will do is bring you down with it
1s not lonely
Mohukgsdfgs 10 months ago
The Pope is a dress wearing thief. The Vatican stole the religion, rituals, and knowledge of the African Priestesses. They were called Sibyls. Sif, Thors black wife was one. King David's Queen of Sheba was one too. In fact the Greek Tragedies are all about some Caucasoid usurping an African Queen from her position of power. The Sibyls were sought after because they had the gift of prophecy. This made the Captains & Kings (of battle) more advantageous during wartime. She could coach him.
filmtress 10 months ago 2
Difficult to describe..
but
Easy to Experience..
Im ramesh from Tamilnadu.India.Though its nice and people are well aware of it but this material world makes them not to think of what the real spritual and divine life is..
With Love
ramesh
rightvision27@yahoo.com.
rbramesh10 1 year ago
This guy goes nowhere fast.
The vatican is the super conscious/pineal/center of the brain that controls the world/human being spiritually.
DC is the left brain conscious/ego/male/aggresiveness that controls us through fear, militarily.
London is the right brain/female/emotional part that controls our creative current, finacially.
These three make up one interlocking empire called “Empire of the City”
PantsInTheFamily 1 year ago 2
The Pineal gland is key to reaching enlightenment, of freeing the soul from earthly bounds, Catholicism is nothing more than Shamanism, hence they have water fountainjs in St peters Square that are nothing more than "mushrooms" in fact they are one amanita muscaria mushroom standing on top of another symbolising the recycling of the halucynagenic properties ofv the mushroom when eaten and passed through urine. (Jesus turned water into wine) amber nectar in fact and that is where that come from
YouKnowIAmRight 1 year ago
@xFlumx
Hi! His name is David Wilcock
MsElise2009 1 year ago
and to the question why it is in the Vatican? i tell you why, because not every citizens of every country is so ignorant an uneducated as americans so they appreciated art, arts of any and every form. and they knew what art is/was. but if you grew up in usa, you wudnt know any art, unless your grand-ma' was babysitting you and you had nothing better to do than watching antique road show, probably you wud have been exposed to some kinda art. but i doubt. mystery resolved, now go do the dishes.
MeSsiMuZic 1 year ago
wow, there is a piece of art in the vatican..wow, you got a picture of it and you organized a luncheon to talk about a piece of art. wow, you just uncovered the great conspiracy. wow, your such an intelligent and smart, and well spoken person. wow, want more wows? wow, there ya go.. very smart of those who attended the Hilton and payed probably $80-100 just to shit there and listen to nonsense. too much time at hands, dont know what to do with your boring american middle class life?
MeSsiMuZic 1 year ago
they have stolen countless artifacts ,ideology & history during the renaissance..
Almost nothing is completely originally & culturally theirs beyond the killing,lying & stealing..
dogramite 1 year ago
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
eiwaz 1 year ago
@eiwaz and sometimes you need to crack it open fill it wit some herb roll ur self a blunt and smoke up..hopfully opening ur mind to look past the cover and see whats really there....seek out the man behind the curtain... is toto smarter then you?
hardhatg69 1 year ago
@hardhatg69 It's a freaking pine cone. A reference to the evergreen and everlasting life, you know, like the Christmas tree. It has absolutely nothing to do with the pineal gland. What utter rubbish. Is it a pagan symbol? Hell yeah. Saying it's a pineal gland is laughable.
eiwaz 1 year ago
Mmm....wonder what the vatican thinks about the uprising of the Egyptians lately?
Licmycat 1 year ago
Satan is everywhere ! EVEN IN vATICAN !
Puz1r 1 year ago
@Puz1r the pineal gland is not satan, satan is not real these people whom calls themselves truthers believe in religion therefore aren't truthers because religion is not truth its bullshit
seetheeoceen 1 year ago 2
@seetheeoceen Man that is exactly how I think and I repeat it to them, but they never answer to my comment.
They claim being in search of the truth yet they are stuck in the mentality of religion, God, Devil, Heaven and Hell.
Start by cleaning your own mind truthers and then start working on finding the truth about others.
Good point seetheeoceen.
fenhrir 1 year ago
Ancient Babylonian Worship that reached it's peak in Egypt.
scoprios 1 year ago
Fluoride calcifies the pineal gland...stops enlightenment from occurring.
C11118 1 year ago 24
@C11118 its the place where melanin is created!
YahSedQanu 9 months ago
They stole and suppressed all the ancient knowledge..its the 3rd eye.
C11118 1 year ago 14
@C11118 the 3rd eye. have you learnt to locate it mate! and the mental image it creates, like a little star like pattern ,
shaunxthexmod777 11 months ago
Pine Cone is a pagan symbol for fertility, that's why it can be seen every ancient cultures!
szaki 1 year ago
@szaki No, you're wrong because the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, David Wilcock, says it's a pineal gland. ; )
eiwaz 1 year ago
@szaki so why is it in the vatican???
hardhatg69 1 year ago
ancient sumerian/babylonian art has a pine cone held to the leaders heads. Egyptian pharoes had a snake at their pineal. The Vatican is Satans workshop, no doubt
MisterMatthewRoberts 1 year ago
It's the Vatican MUSEUM, get it?
I think you just have Pineal Envy.
bucintoro 1 year ago 2
@bucintoro rofllllll
kahetel13 1 year ago
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bucintoro 1 year ago
2 minutes of my life I'll never get back... Feel sorry for all the idiots who wasted their time, effort, energy and money attending to hear whatever failed point this dumb ass is trying to make.
Hipster55 1 year ago
According to a tour guide at the Vatican, the pine cone in the courtyard represents fertility.
PatternsInTheIvy2 1 year ago
@PatternsInTheIvy2 According to me and many others the Vatican leads the pack in satanic worship and leading the common man astray. Fertility my foot! Try lack of fertility ... of mind, soul and matter and all in between.
PawSoxMom 1 year ago
@PawSoxMom FIrst, try not to start off with "according to me", that instantly destroys any and all credibility the words that follow may have. And second, I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, simply relaying a tidbit of information I was told that I thought some might find intriguing.
PatternsInTheIvy2 1 year ago
@PatternsInTheIvy2 Excuse me? Who's opinion would you like me to give? I have discussed this matter with many people and I was giving my feedback on the subject. The Vatican is a satanic cult that lies to the people. The burning of Rome was a false flag event like 9/11 was. The Romans are still out to conquer the world in the form of the Vatican; they just regrouped in the form of a religion to manipulate the people with guilt and fear. The pope is merely the Roman Emperor.
PawSoxMom 1 year ago
@PawSoxMom Are you out of your mind? You're seriously implying that the Vatican is a satanic cult? There is no evidence for that what so ever besides conjecture that is supported by no credible researchers, and David Icke is not a credible researcher. The Vatican is a beacon of light, it is the center of Christendom, and has been for almost 2,000 years. If you have something more than "according to me" or these ludacris inferences that you nut jobs make maybe I'll listen.
donvizz7th 1 year ago
@donvizz7th No, I am not out of my mind. But you are rude and ignorant to be name -calling. And I never mentioned Icke. Look, I am sorry to have blown your illusion, but the Vatican is evil. Do your homework and you will find that out. Start with looking in to what happened to Lucia dos Santos a/k/a Sister Lucy. The Vatican murdered the real Sr Lucy in Oct. 1958 to prevent her from revealing the real 3rd secret. The real 3rd secret was that the church was corrupt & foretold of the sex scandals
PawSoxMom 1 year ago
@PawSoxMom Ok first off, I have not found a single credible researcher that backs up that claim. Second of all, most of the articles I did read had nothing to do with a sex scandal, they had to do with the fall of communism, a third world war, and the shooting of Pope John Paul II. Also to think that the Vatican murdered Sister Lucy and put someone else in there is ridiculous! It's actually quite funny to think about if you ask me. I can't even entertain such an absurd claim.
donvizz7th 1 year ago
@PawSoxMom well thats not exactly a secret man, countless popes have been involved in sex scandals, right now rodrigo de borgia comes to mind, he was one corrupt fucker that tried to manipulate all of Mediterranean Europe through marriages with his children, threats and bribes.
sexidolofsatan 1 year ago
@sexidolofsatan True, but many people are not aware of the real history of the Vatican. They have gone to great lengths to put a lid on it and many practicing Christian's have no idea of what is really happening. It's a hard landing to wake up to for many. Some may never see it because of their devotion to Christ that they transfer as a devotion to the Church.
PawSoxMom 1 year ago
@donvizz7th Dont know about the satanism line, but The Vatican is no beacon of light, read: "The Secret History of the Jesuits" by Edmond Paris..
"The Power and Secret of the Jesuits" by Renee Fulop-Miller,
or any book by Joseph McCabe...
caliNYCdoja 1 year ago
Who actually designed and built the Vatican layout? Was it a group of stonemasons? They did so many aspects of it with Egyptian and Masonic + pagan elements, it must have been a group of Freemasons or people well-connected to some kind of lodge of knowledge. The whole place is a gigantic Key of Solomon for chrissakes.
SandThruFingers 1 year ago
@SandThruFingers no. it wasn't one person" or one organization, these statues and such were "gifts" if you get me of distant lands that the vaticans "love" reached
sexidolofsatan 1 year ago
@sexidolofsatan Hhhm, well that is somewhat true, as with the obelisks that were taken from Egypt, etc but the entire design and LAYOUT were not imports, they were designed and layed out right there, by medieval European craftsmen. I just would like to know more about who was directly involved with that. I realize it was over a long time period and probably crap tons of people.
SandThruFingers 1 year ago
..Psa. 10:4,5
...KJV....wicked...His ways are always grievous.
...ESV....wicked...His ways prosper at all times.
...Eccl. 8:10
...KJV....wicked...were forgotten.
...ESV....wicked...were praised.
...Hos. 10:1
....KJV....Isreal is an empty vine.
....ESV....Isreal is a luxuriant vine. This is what you get from a bible that uses the Septuigent as a text for the Old Testament. Get a Holy Bible, rather than a clever facsimily.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, the only thing I can say about the Septuagint is that in a great many places, that is the version used by the Apostles themselves. So if it was good enough for the Holy Spirit (and the Septuagint is far older than the Masoretic Texts that we still have) then it's good enough for me. I find that the ESV makes more sense of these texts, truth be told.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...Do you think it's a good idea to teach that the " wicked prosper at all times?" The Septuigent was manufactured in 250 AD not BC as many would have you believe. The idea that Jesus read from this Greek document or the Apostles is ridiculous as they had the Hebrew right in front of them. The Hebrew text goes back to the time of Moses who wrote the first 5 books.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief That Scripture mentions the wicked prospering as a scoff, not as a good thing. If the LXX was written after the apostles wrote, how do you explain them using it in their OT quotations? I never said Jesus used the LXX, but the apostles most certainly did. And there may have been times the apostles had the Hebrew in front of them, but there may very well have been times when they had the LXX in front of them. Either way, they used exact quotes from the LXX.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ....The LXX mimics the Hebrew text in most places. The Apostles were dead long before the LXX came into existance.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well of course it mimics the Hebrew. It's a translation of the Hebrew. :D I disagree. I believe the LXX was produced BC not AD.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief (Of course, Jesus could very well have known how to read Greek, since it was the lingua franca of the 1st century. He COULD have had a familiarity with this translation.)
mjt1517 1 year ago
1:42 "Is anybody getting a does not compute on this"? It is clear that the
majority of people are carefully conditioned and brainwashed for many generations.
sshonuff 1 year ago
I researched the pineal gland because of my personal experiences. I had strong deja vu experiences when I was a teenager. I could see the exact sight and sounds of non important events and I know that i'm not alone on this. Look at the artificial chemicals purposely put into place in society. Fluoride, aluminum oxide, lead, mercury, etc. These all block the higher functions of the brain. Ancient people discovered or were shown that the pineal gland can tap into other dimensions or communication.
sshonuff 1 year ago
Modern relligions seperate us we should find new gods who unite us. why not pick the sun or the earth when it comes to all its about respect to the nature and eachother im goin to take some DMT and see if that pinealgland stuff is for real maybe i will get less confused then.its like the world gone mad facist and nazis sitting on all the major coporations what are they up to. what are we goin to do when they own everithing.
ChrisThomsen1976 1 year ago
This man hasnt considered (or ignored) Romes building traditions, it made public works representing all its victories, and as the church took over Rome they did the same, it is Bible 'conquered' Egypt in stone monuments.
All traditions look back at previous empires and emulate their styles, we still do it now with many era's architectural styles, from Greece onwards, its a way of saying "we are a great as our predessors" or, showing off. This reasoning must also be taken into consideration
dortyhoor 1 year ago
Whoo, this man has clearly not considered Romes traditions, it made public works representing their victories, and as the church took over from the Ceasers theyt became the masters and 'conquered Egypt with the Bible, all traditions look back at previous ones and emulate their styles, we still do it not with many era's architeture
dortyhoor 1 year ago
@dortyhoor ...When I toured Rome, our guide took us to various churches of the medevil period. He showed us an interesting statue of "Moses", carved by Michealangelo, the statue had horns on it's head. lol Rome has a penchant for Egyptian symbolism, a lot of it within the Vatican, even thier bible is derived from the Alexandrian texts, such as the Septuigent.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Moses the horned one eh? lol that will get the Protestants jumping.
dortyhoor 1 year ago
@dortyhoor ..Yeah...nobody seemed to have an explanation for it...maybe he was trying to depict that "devil inside" angle. lol
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Trying to tell us that he was just a naughty boy
dortyhoor 1 year ago
@dortyhoor ...My guess is that was'nt Moses at all, nor was it intended to be.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief So did I but I thought I'd have a stab at trying to be entertaining, oh well.
Fail.
dortyhoor 1 year ago
@dortyhoor ..lol...that was good. I do find it interesting how Christianity was hi-jacked by Egyptian spritualism in the early days, of course all this was front page news 500 years ago during the Reformation and Inquisition.
vachief 1 year ago
@dortyhoor No, no, no...the horns aren't even horns. It's a sculpted representation of glory shining from Moses. This is a pretty standard and mundane understanding of that statue. C'mon son.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..I've stood 3 feet from the statue....they are horns similar to that of young male sheep. That is a terribly weak explanation, altough I can imagine someone making that up.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well even if Michelangelo intended to portray horns on a human, I would think that shows Michelangelo's misunderstanding rather than the possibility that Moses had horns growing out of his head. Don't you think?
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...The first point is...Moses, like any other man did not have horns. The second point is the disregard for the 10 Commandments concerning graven images. The third point is that the statue is some pagan god and not Moses at all. Rome is full of pagan/occult symbolism, I had a chance to view much of it while I was there.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well...the command was actually against bowing down to graven images. I'm not sure how many people have actually worshipped that statue as an idol. (Fantastic work...I wish I could sculpt like that! Michelangelo's hands must have been made of iron by the end of his career.) Ok...so if it's a pagan god, then maybe they're horns. Pan, perhaps? Does it have goat hooves for feet? Anyone take a peek up his robe? ;)
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...Here is the command, just the first half...." Thou shalt Not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness ...of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4 The second half has to do with worshiping objects. To be honest I did find the statue quite wierd, but then again who knows about the theological beliefs of Michelangelo or for that matter the Pope that hired him.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, that's just the first half. The complete command is against making images that you bow down to and serve. Idols, plain and simple. The command is obviously not forbidding the MAKING of images, since there are images all over the Temple and even the Ark of the Covenant. We have to use near and far contexts or we make a muddled mess of the text at hand. Also, we wouldn't get far in life without making any images. And we certainly couldn't watch YouTube videos. :)
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...You might have a point if God had not included the word....Graven. To understand the word in context you could go threw the 60 or so references in the KJV. Onlyy during times of apostacy did the isrealites make graven images. The only portion of Christianity that made graven images was Catholicism and Orthodoxy..now even much of Protestantism makes pictures of God.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Threw? KJV? Why just the KJV? I use the ESV. You have to take the second part of the command. You can't truncate it. Again, the Temple was full of images. And the lid of the Ark even had two angels perched on top looking at the top of the lid. Angels are from heaven, so how is this allowable if there are to be no images? Graven or not...are you telling me that if an image isn't graven, then this prohibition doesn't apply? Please...you define "graven" for us here.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..The KJV is a majority text bible, all modern speech bibles are translated from a minority ext type. I wasn't truncating, the first half specifically commands not to make them. The word graven means an object of veneration or worship as in God or gods, public figures of reknown, that sort of thing. Read about the iconoclasts in the 16th century as part of the reformation. The mercy seat was only seen by the high priest once a year and it was a specific instruction from God.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, I don't give any creedance to KJV onlyism. Sorry. If that's your criteria for authority, then we'll have to part ways right now. And graven simply means something man made...like a stone idol...or a painting of a lady holding flowers. If you cover up the second half of the verse, then we can't make any images at all. And that's not the intention of this commandment. I'm familiar with the Iconoclasts, having come from their tradition. They didn't smash all images. Just idols.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief It wasn't just the mercy seat. In Solomon's Temple, there were bulls holding up the laver. And there were other images woven into the fabrics used in the Tabernacle and the Temple. So it wasn't just one image that was only seen once a year. These counterfactuals show us that it's not just art objects that are prohibited, but art objects that are specifically used as idols. Which is why we need the second half of the command...it explains and completes the first part.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..The temple had furniture but no images aside from those on the mercy seat and were never seen by the general public. Pictures of your family, your passport, wedding pictures, etc,etc, do not fall into the catagory of graven. If you have a picture of Jesus in your living room...that is a graven image, as are the paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Again, this is simply false. The Temple displayed bulls, cherubs (in addition to the two on the Ark. There were also giant cherubim statues in the holy place in the later temples, but since these are tucked away, we'll not count them here), palm trees, and pomegranates. Oh, yes...and the menorah was fashioned to resemble almond branches.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Yeah...I guess your right...the only difference is that those objects were made under specific instruction from God.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Which would be the reason they are counterfactuals. These shape our understanding of that commandment. They're not some sly exception..."Don't make images...OH! Except for these few things over here...pay no attention to that!" No. It's because the prohibition ISN'T against making images, but bowing down to them. Scripture interprets Scripture. We have principle A...and example B...example B sheds light on principle A. Taken together, they form the full picture.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..."Thou Shall not make"....sounds like plain English to me, but everybody has to flesh out thier own understanding of scripture.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Sure enough it does. But that's not where the command stops. It says not to make images in order to bow down to them. Clearly God is not against making images, since He prescribed images for the Temple. Cherubim, bulls, seraphim, almond branches, palm trees, pomegranates, etc. These are all IMAGES found in the Tabernacle and the Temple. It's similar to the command against killing. We know that's not an absolute command, since God commands war and the death penalty.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...The difference is that God commanded it, he has that latitude. God commanded the Isrealites to kill men, women and children, we on the other hand do not possess that kind of authority. I just love horses...I think I'll carve a big statue of a horse in tribute to the horse. That is worldly thinking...that is what the world does....we are commanded to reject it.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Actually, we DO indeed have the authority to kill. Not in the sense of the Canaanite extermination. But cops have authority to kill if they're threatened with deadly force. The State has the authority to execute criminals guilty of capital offenses. I have the authority to kill a home invader. And the soldier has authority to kill on the battlefield. The prohibition against murder does not prohibit ALL killing. Just as the prohibition against making idols does not prohibit ALL images.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Yeah...I agree, defending yourself or others from a deadly confrontation is not what the commandment is about, your not expected to stand there and be slaughtered. Capital punishment however is not authorized, they can be locked up to remove the threat, you can't kill people because they are vile as they are Gods property.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Excuse me? Capital punishment is NOT authorized? Just how much of that Bible have you read? Capital punishment is commanded by God through Moses in Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus. Jesus Himself even expected the law concerning the execution of those who revile their parents to be followed. Capital punishment is more than authorized, it's demanded. In some cases there is no other option BUT to execute an offender. It is GOD who gave us the commands regarding capital punishment.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ....I disagree, the portion of the law that called for an eye for an eye, died at the cross. Jesus said... love your niehbour as yourself...that is kinda hard to do with a rope around his neck. Likewise we no longer stone women for adultery and that was a capital crime in the day of Moses, no less sinfull than murder. That is Catholic theology your talking...minor and major sins.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief It most certainly did not die at the cross. The debt that stood against us died at the cross, but the Law continues until the coming of the New Heavens and New Earth. Matthew 5 says precisely that. Paul, AFTER the crucifixion also says in Romans 13 that the governing authorities do not bear the sword in vain. He also said on one occasion that if he had done anything deserving death, he would go without complaint. Jesus rescued that woman from a mistrial. Where was the man?
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..The moral law continues....the 10 Commandments, the cerimonial law ceased at the cross and was represented in the temple when the viel was torn in half. The handwriting of ordanances was nailed to the cross. Col. 2:4 and Eph. 2:15-16.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief The ceremonial laws continue on in the Person of Christ. He is the sacrifice. He is the Temple. He is the High Priest. The old form has been resurrected and elevated in Christ, but it's still there. So much so that we ALL are considered priests of God offering sacrifices. The form has changed, but the principles of the ceremonial laws continue and will at least until the end of this present order.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Yes...I agree that Jesus is the High Priest and that we belong to the priesthood of believers. Jesus said that....." Ye are the temple" as he refered to himself on this earth.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief The true veil that was torn was the flesh of Jesus on the cross. See Hebrews, please. It wasn't the ordinances that were nailed, but the debt that stood against us...in other words, our guilt...that was crucified with Christ. The ordinances remain, otherwise we could sin with impunity since there would be NO LAW. And if there IS no law, then how is it that even the ten commandments remain? Those would have been nailed to the cross as well, since those are the summary of what we broke.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ....." Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances....nailing it to the cross." Col. 2:14 "Having abolished......even the law of commandments contained in ordinances...." Eph.2:15 The reason why God tore the temple veil, was to mark the end of the sacrificial law and ceremonies.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief God made [you] alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. THIS he set aside, nailing it to the cross. Col 2:14 (He canceled our guilt, not the legal demands of the Law. Even Paul, in Romans, says we ESTABLISH the Law by faith.)
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ....There is a distinction between the moral law and the ceremonial law...do you agree? It looks to me as if you are bundling them together. The handwriting of ordinaces is part of the ceremonial law and was abolished at the cross, as the Holy Bible states that. We are still guilty, but it won't be held against us because of our faith.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief There are, in fact, three divisions of the Law. Ceremonial, moral, and civil. The ceremonial has been fulfilled in Christ. It's not over, though. It's changed forms. We are priests in the order of Melchizadek. And priests are not without service to a Temple. Our Temple is Christ. We offer sacrifices of praise. We offer the incense of prayer. These are not merely poetic flourishes. They are the real ceremony of the NT Church. We even eat with the High Priest in the Lord's Supper.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief The moral law...can anyone claim we are NOT to follow the ten commandments as followers...as students...of the very Christ who said He did NOT come to anull the Law? The Christ who said not even a JOT of the Law would fall away while the heavens and the Earth remain? And this includes the civil law with its punitive commands. We have no authority to say these laws are now nullified after Christ has said they remain until the end.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...Yeah...The Assembly of God for instance...they keep telling me to ..." Get out from under the law". ...as if the 10 Commandments were no longer in effect.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief I used to be in the Assembly of God. That's where I was baptized. The church I was in seemed to have a balanced view of the Law as far as the ten commandments were concerned. So much so that several of my friends were worried that they lost their salvation every time they sinned. I guess it depends on which church you go to in that denomination.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Yes ..The Hal Lindsey crowd, I'm quite familiar with them, there the ones beating the drum to attack Iran as if we weren't bogged down with enough warfare already. I wonder if Hal ever served in a front line unit.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief You lost me on the Hal Lindsey reference. I know who he is, but I fail to see how he fits into this. He's against applying biblical law to modern courts, just like you.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Hal has been the cheerleader for the AOGs view on biblical prophesy for over 40 years. Believe me... you don't want to live in a theocracy, even a Christian one, you think were squabling now?...see what happens when church and state unite.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, I'm a Christian Reconstructionist. I believe the State should adopt biblical Law as the law of the land. I believe theocracy is inescapable. If we're not ruled by God's Law, we will be ruled by the humanist god of the month, which is what we have now. True Christian theocracy wouldn't involve a fusion of Church and State. The Church has strict limits set upon its authority and it's not allowed to intrude on State matters. Inform, yes. But not intrude.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Your scaring me brother....I don't want the state explaining the Bible to me. I'll do what I think is best according to my conscience, rather than have Pat Robertson decide what is best for me. Do you see my point? What people do with thier lives is up to them, it is not our place to legislate biblical morality on them. Christianity is not a religion of force like Islam or Romanism.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief The State WOULDN'T explain the Bible to you. Where did you get that idea? The State has no authority to interpret Scripture. Moses did say that the neighboring pagan nations would look at the Law and appreciate its wisdom. This is what would happen if all were right with the world. The State would adopt Mosaic Law as the law of the land because of the righteous justice contained in it. Remember...the penal code came from GOD'S wisdom. Not Man's wisdom.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Pat Robertson isn't an agent of the State. Whose law would you rather have ruling over you? God's just Law or humanist Man's sinful law? Seems rather obvious to me. Do you think God was wrong when he said rapists should be put to death? What about witches?
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..As long as the secular law of the land does not interfere with my freedom to pursue a biblical lifestyle..no sweat. It is my belief that Pat Robertson or another like him....would in fact interfere with my religious views. He thinks he knows what is best for people, and would try to legislate morality...according to scripture it is not our place to use coercion....but provide example only.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, under a biblical scheme of crime and punishment, you would not be interfered with. Unless you want to practice lawlessness. You don't plan on raping, kidnapping, performing gay sex acts, committing adultery, sleeping with relatives, practicing witchcraft, anytime soon, I trust. ;) It's for these law breakers that the Law was made for. Not for law keepers, so just as today, if you keep your nose clean you have nothing to worry about.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Well, the State does use coercion for law breakers. It does today, too. Caging people for decades who steal? What kind of crap is that? We're not animals. And WE as individual Christians are surely meant to live out the Scriptures and provide an example of righteous living. But the State can't do that. The State has to leave law keepers alone and allow them to prosper unhindered. Or it has to punish evil doers, just as Romans says. The State isn't the Church.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Rome is Christian. Christianity includes the Mosaic code. Remember, our Master did not nullify the Law. Whose Law do you trust most?
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..I trust the Law of God. According to the book of Revelation...the attributes of the saved of mankind are described thusly......." Those that keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus." I believe those words and endeaver to keep Gods Commandments to the very best of my ablity, as well as following all the guidance that Jesus spoke. That is why I could not be a prison executioner, nor would I ask that of another.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Well, I see several, several passages in the bible that call for death as a penalty for certain crimes. So while you may ignore those passages, I cannot. Now, only the State is authorized to carry out executions (Romans 13:1-4) so I cannot and do not look for opportunities to "carry out" some kind of vigilante justice. That would also be a breach of His commandments. But I do expect the State to do so. Sadly, they do not in our modern era. I believe one day they will. Just not now.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief If the outward form of circumcision is abolished, which the Council of Jerusalem in Acts clearly shows it is abolished, then it's no longer in effect. Therefore, I am NOT guilty of breaking that law, since it's day is over. The new circumcision IS in effect and if I seek to avoid submitting to it, then I AM guilty of breaking God's NT ceremony regarding that sign and seal of the New Covenant. Same with any OT vs NT ceremonial rite.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief He himself is our peace, who has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace... Eph 2:15. This shows that the outward form of the ceremonial law is defunct. Specifically circumcision. Rather than requiring the Gentiles to adopt Jewish forms of worship, he instead removed those forms.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief But your point in these passages was meant to show the penal code was removed. They do no such thing. In fact, there ARE NO PASSAGES in the NT that show the penal code was revoked. If anything, we need them desperately today. I'll agree we do not sacrifice goats and bulls or burn incense. But we do still sacrifice as priests and carry on ceremonial customs in the NT Church. They are spiritual. But they are still under the category of ceremony and sacrifice. We serve a greater Temple.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief The man was to be stoned right along with the woman, but there was only the woman. Also, the event clearly was a setup and Jesus knew it. Because of that, it was a mistrial. Also, the accusers (Pharisees) were also guilty of adultery and anyone who's been guilty of a particular crime under the Law cannot be a witness against the accused. A mistrial. Jesus expected grown children who revile their parents to be put to death. It's not Catholic. It's New Testament.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..I'll really have to disagree....in the Old Testament capital punishment was handed out right then and there...in the New Testament capital punishment is reserved for the last day..." Vengence is mine...I will repay"... saith the Lord. Jesus was pointing out that the sins of the accusers was in fact equal to the woman, that's why they all slunked away. They were just as guilty.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief The NT doesn't show that capital punishment is reserved for the Last Day. Although God Himself executed them, Ananias and Saphira were slain ON THE SPOT under the New Testament. Their deaths weren't pushed back to the final judgment. And, just as Jesus warned, within one generation, the Jews in Jerusalem who didn't heed His warning were all slaughtered in AD 70 by Titus and his army in the fall of Jerusalem. No waiting until the end there, either.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Titus and Vespacian were not Bible believers either, don't forget that.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Neither were Babylon or Syria, and yet God picked them up and used them as His hammer of judgment on Israel and Judah. The foreign, pagan armies need not even believe in Yahweh for Yahweh to use them as His agents of wrath and destruction. You do believe God is sovereign over the nations, do you not? This IS just what Jesus prophesied would happen...that a foreign army would destroy the Temple and Jerusalem in Luke 21.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..I agree...God has used the heathen to carry out his work. There will always be people looking for the opporunity to kill others, we on the other hand are not those people. ...'Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, ...."
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Correct. Our personal struggle is against demonic forces set loose in the world. Absolutely. This in itself, however, does not negate the death penalty. The State's struggle is not against demonic forces, but against flesh and blood criminals. We are not to confuse the roles various groups play. The Church has the keys of the kingdom, which punitively amount to excommunication, ultimately. The State may administer various punishments, including death.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Now, granted, these are judgments wrought by God's own direct hand and are not examples of humans executing humans. But your current claim in this post is that capital punishment is reserved for the Last Day. I just demonstrated this is clearly NOT the case. And yes, vengeance IS the Lord's. But it was also the Lord's under the Old Covenant, too. Yet, He demanded Israel to use capital punishment in that day, even though vengeance is HIS. Since it's His, he can authorize others to do it.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ....I disagree.....there is no mandate for the execution of human beings under the New Covenant. Not a single verse in the New Testament to substantciate that idea. What you have stated is pure Catholic theology....the clergy used your arguements to murder hundreds of thousands of people because they were found to be heritics.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief Actually, I've given you a good handful of verses to prove it's not the case that the NT never supports the idea of the death penalty. If you choose to disbelieve those verses, that's on you. It's not Catholic. I'm about as contrary to Catholicism as you can get. Also, the Church is 100% NOT the agent of capital punishment. The State is. The Church may only excommunicate, at most. And the State isn't authorized to judge theology, so there's no way they can execute simple heretics.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief And yes, they were just as guilty. Which is why they didn't have legal footing to bring an accusation against that woman. It was a phoney trial designed to entrap Jesus. He saw through their shenanigans and forced a mistrial. What we DON'T see here is Jesus repealing the Law. Remember, Jesus didn't come to nullify the Law, but to fulfill it. And since He didn't come to nullify it, it goes on.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...I agree that Jesus did not repeal the law or nullify it....sin is sin, however the sentencing and punitive phase is carried out on the last day, in contrast to the Old Testament way of doing business. The fact that the sentance of death was not carried out proves my point. If she is found unworthy in the judgement ...she will certainly die, but we are not at that point yet.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief The NT nowhere says the penal code is carried out on just the Last Day. I've TWICE provided evidence to the contrary but you've chosen to ignore it. So be it. Believe as you wish. It won't change the biblical truth of the matter. The sentence of death wasn't carried out because it was an unjust trial. The accusers were guilty of the same crime. There was no man. She was entrapped. Jesus saved her from an unjust court. He did not comment on the death penalty or its validity.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief If Jesus did not repeal the Law, then it's still in force. And this includes the punitive laws. These are NEVER even hinted as being abolished or repealed by any of the NT writers or Jesus. To the contrary, I've given you enough instances in the NT to show Jesus AND Paul supported the idea of the death penalty when warranted.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Maybe I missed them....where are the proof texts for capital punishment in todays society?
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief I will post them once more. This is the third time. Please pay attention. I've read every word you've written. I expect the same courtesy from you. If you ignore them this time, I'm going to assume you just can't refute these passages...next post will be a repost from earlier.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...You did'nt give me a passage...you gave me chapter 5 in Matthew that I already agree with you on another chapter in Romans. Were I come from,if a person asks for some proof texts to substantiate a position it means a verse or verses...not the whole chapter. I'm trying to be as courteous as possible here...I'm a bible believer just like you.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief It's a short chapter. You mean you can't be bothered to read a handful of verse to get to the relevant part? Very well. Matthew 5:17-20. Paul's ready submission to the death penalty if he deserved it: Acts 25:10-11. Jesus chastising the Pharisees for NOT taking one capital offense seriously: Mark 7:9-13. Paul's statement about the State and the sword: Romans 13:1-4. Do you need more? How many more until you believe it? One was enough for me.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Here's a bonus...Paul himself says our faith does NOT nullify the Law: Here's a bonus: Romans 3:27-31. (Note I am not saying we are saved by our obedience to the Law. This discussion has been about the continuing validity of the Law's penal sanctions. We are saved by grace through faith. THAT is a separate matter.)
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Matthew 5 says the law is in effect until the Last Day. Romans 13 says the government doesn't bear the sword (the SWORD) in vain. Paul said on one occasion that if he had done anything worthy of death, he would submit to that penalty without complaint. Jesus upheld the validity of the death penalty against children who revile their parents. There are NO passages which repeal the death penalty or require the State to abstain from it or to forgive criminals.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ...Why can't we just put killers in jail for the rest of thier lives, what is wrong with that? Would you kill a person because they broke the law? or would you expect someone else to do this work? A person in prison is no threat to me or anyone else...." Thou shall not kill." ...pretty simple. We live by the Holy Bible..not the Koran.
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief What's wrong with caging another human? When the Bible doesn't prescribe that punishment? Why do you look to the world for your ideas of crime and punishment? God is far wiser than Man, wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you also agree that HIS judgments in Scripture are righteous and just? Then why not follow HIS way rather than secular Man? That's my question. I trust God in these matters. (I also believe rape and other crimes should be punished by death, as God commanded.)
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief The truth of that commandment is that He commanded us not to MURDER. If He commanded not to kill, then He couldn't have expected the Israeli army to destroy Canaan. Nor could he expect the Israeli justice system to carry out His many different capital punishments on evildoers. And we couldn't protect ourselves against criminals who mean us harm. It's not about threat level. It's about justice. And when it comes to murderers, death is the prescribed punishment. Please trust God on this.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@vachief Also, your crack about living by the Holy Bible and not the Qu'ran...do you really need me to list all the capital punishments commanded by Yahweh through Moses in the Holy Bible? Are you not familiar with them? Perhaps you just haven't become aware of this side of God. Would you think anything different of Him if you realized that God even calls for the State to execute adulterers, rapists, kidnappers, people who engage in gay sex, witchcraft, etc? It's a big list.
mjt1517 1 year ago
@mjt1517 ..Yeah...the Popes of the middle ages would have loved to have you on thier team..lol
vachief 1 year ago
@vachief