How can he claim that the Bible displays compromised morality when he knows nothing of the Bible? Job is a narrative constructed by a man/group of men to demonstrate how the Proverbs understanding of life (do good, get good things; do bad, get bad things) did not apply in every situation. Sometimes bad things happen; the sun shines on the just and unjust alike. It is a narrative intending to communicate something very specific, and this guy has sorely misused it.
Not to mention he supposedly instigated a blood sacrifice (jesus) when any god worth his salt won't need something so barbaric (or anything for that matter) to be able to fix something that was his blunder to begin with.
And to top it off; if you don't believe the unbelievable and accept jesus as your saviour you will not go to heaven no matter how good and moral a person you are (and instead go to hell, where you will suffer eternally), yet people no better or much worse than you will.
@Seymour13 You keep using language that implies you're appealing to a standard. You're saying he's "barbaric, a monster, morally repugnant." You say he "condones slavery, commits genocide, approves of stoning children, killing gays, etc." as if these things are wrong in your mind. Under what grounds does your worldview allow for you to hold the god of the bible to a standard? All of your arguments about the "god of the bible" regarding what he does in the bible are read so far out of context.
@tsines3 If you would like an honest explanation of why God allows, even ordains suffering I'd be happy to give it.Your understanding of a law-giver's morality is flawed. God is immutable. His standards are immutable because they stem from his character. If morality stems from human beings and their common sense, what's wrong with rape? murder? It's just the behaviors that came about from their common sense. Who are we to say that those behaviors are wrong just because our common sense says dif?
"Who are we to say that those behaviors are wrong just because our common sense says dif?"
Sane human beings, you fuckwit.
Search sam harris and matt dillahunty for an explanation of morality and 'god's character' (also an old and debunked argument, but takes more time to talk you through it than I'm willing to waste at this point).
@Seymour13 "Sane human beings"? Again you're appealing to some universal standard that does not exist according to your worldview. You can't say that behaviors innate to some humans is suddenly insane because it's not innate to all. There are plenty of species that force sex upon the opposite gender in order to reproduce. This is biologically beneficial because it increases the chance of the survival of the species (survival of the fittest). How can you say this isn't sane among humans?
@Seymour13 So though rape impedes on the rights of some yet it increases the likelihood of the survival of the species (biologically speaking it is beneficial), human beings label it wrong? Rape goes against this "common sense" standard you have in mind, yet all feelings aside, at times its actually better for the species. It looks like you're just making up a standard and casting out the extreme cases to make sense of a worldview that fits for what you want to believe.
@Seymour13 What I'm saying is that you're suggesting that behaviors intrinsic to many species including some human beings "ought NOT" be. Yet, these behaviors are simply the outworkings of their biology. If we are simply the product of meaningless chance, how there be what "ought" and what "ought not" be behaviors? There's nothing (including behaviors) that exists that can be labeled as wrong, even if the majority doesn't like it. You can't say biology messed up.
And once I grant you that your specific religion's god exists (as opposed to just a general notion of a creator, as in the previous bit) things really start to get freaky.
The god of the bible is one of the most morally repugnant characters in all of fiction; he condones slavery, condones and commits genocide, approves of the stoning of unruly children and killing gays.
Right now our economy is run by criminals and just looking at the numbers says "NO FUTURE" I see hardly any Christians identifying the predators of our world because they are too religious to think. Mind you.. there are some Christians that are pointing out these predators and speaking out against it. But, very few.
This argument does not work because if God does not exist (as he states the story is fiction), there are no grounds to appeal to suggesting that either of these scenarios are "evil." If he does exist, then morality is bound by God's nature. God's nature does not revolve around mankind but around God. Therefore, when we ask "Is God a moral monster?" We must be asking with God as the point of reference. Not man.
@Seymour13 It has not been debunked because the people attempting to debunk it have no concept of who God is. This is spoken about from a completely uninformed view. If this guy understood the entire anthology that he finds the book of Job in it, he would not be making this argument.
@Seymour13 On my phone, your response about the hitler argument appears but not on my desktop so I'm just replying to this comment again. Your statement was "god...fails even by human standards...and is...irrelevant as he already fails our standard." Your premise is entirely flawed. There is no human standard. Our opinions are descriptive, not prescriptive. Your logic fails at the start by the fact that you appeal to a standard without a standard giver.
Even if there is a standard giver, that changes nothing about reality nor is there any reason to assume that the standard giver has any authority to impose his views on humanity.
Common sense, decency and the awareness of our personal responsibility (we don't live in a vacuum, our actions affect those around us) is the foundation of morality.
But more importantly; your logic fails at the start due to the fact that you appeal to a standard giver for morality, which suggests that morality depends on some cosmic being's whims.
As such morality is merely what he decides it to be at that particular point in time, and if he were to someday say that 'rape is good, murder is aswell' then you would have no argument against that because he is the 'standard giver'.
Every moral person would know that it's still wrong regardless of that being's decree.
Those who point to a dictator of morality must accept that this being can change morality and that whatever he decides IS moral regardless of whether or not it ACTUALLY is.
Addendum: Even if I were to grant you that your god exists (which I don't), there is still one more hang-up.
Not only are some acts morally reprehensible, but all are guity of the good they do not do.
You propose an omnipotent, omniscient and 'omnibenevolent' being that created everything, yet allows so much suffering (and created atleast some of it) that would be no effort at all for him to correct.
Disease, mental illness, abuse (example: google Joseph Fritzl), genocide, famine, etc.
Besides, that's like using hitler as a point of reference for judging if hitler was good or bad.
Fact is, the god of the bible fails even by human standards of morality and as such whatever god's supposed standard is is utterly irrelevant as he already fails by our standard.
You appeal to an imaginary being as the center of morality doesn't work on anyone who is even remotely sensible.
@tsines3 Exactly. But of course, atheists will misunderstand what you've said by saying "ATHEISTS CAN BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD!!! >:("
Of course you can, atheist. We are not claiming otherwise. What we are claiming is that without God, there is no objective standard by which to call something good or evil.
Beware to those whom watch this video. Remember satan in the Garden Of Eden. He was soo inticing he fooled Adasm and Eve into believing a lie and sin enter the world. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing.
Im also glad you enjoy my music sethecx and since i am a child of God instead of saying you "in-denial atheist suck my dick and don't play my shit" i rather say it is not my place to discriminate or judge you because of your beliefs so enjoy my music and at least study one of the many religions instead of letting your environment dictate what you should believe in.
i study everything, religions too.. but i suspect many christians dont.
they OBSESS about their religion only, and their holy book. They cant ever tell me why their dogma is correct and another religion is wrong, because they only know their own. And to show a cloth and claim it Proves Jesus of the bible is just not gonna fly... it is completely ridiculous, but many dont even get that. You tend to go: CAN U DISPROVE THIS? NO? REPENT! And u did. U just accept it all.
@sethecx And werent you the so called Perfect Atheist saying that abortions are alright? the murder of undeveloped and developed babies. I see who is the bad person...you and that man in the clip telling us to accept death penalty's and assisted suicide you must be out your muthafuckin mind u sick fuck then he goes on to excuse this behaviour saying Religious people are blinded we are not blinded you people agreeing with this man are blinded into a murder spree.
Although Christians always talk about faith, they don't have any at all. Their Jesus said that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you could move mountains Mathew 17:20. I don't know of any Christian ever in the last 2000 years moving mountains. What they do have though is a whooping case of mental illness.
This is a manipulative, emotional blackmail, planned and thought out speech to try to make people accept the insane actions going on in society in these times by trying to have you believe that you can't accept these things not because there bad (which they evidently are) but because your religion is clouding your thoughts which are positive thoughts while the things this man spoke about (birth control, abortion,death, suicide) are NEGATIVE. Worship the manufactured evil world not God he says.
I have a watch...and I was looking for the creator inside of it...but i coudnt find him...as for the world, people are looking for God...but they cant find him...ever seen the size of beetlegeuse the planet? it will jump start your thinking of a creator.
Everyone is an atheist, until he opens his eyes and look around...something as "simple" as the photosynthesis...your house is build by someone...a simple construction...but the world isnt?
Well, this guy obviously doesnt have a clue what that story was about. Here a quick explanation. Satan said, that any man would turn away from God, if his life was taken away from him, in this case, everything he got, and nearly himself...this proved satan wrong...coz job didnt turn away from God, even if he didnt understand the wrong that was done to him. Therefore, a truly good person, with true love for God as it should be.
@iDecember Satan dared him to destroy Job's life by killing his whole family.. and he did! You probably think that is was justified because then Satan was proven wrong... but frankly, WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT SATAN's OPINIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU KNOW THE DUDE IS AN EVIL ASSHOLE?
Face it.. YOUR GOD IS A TOOL and did satan's bidding by doing a devilishly evil act!
Haters gonna hate! Christians wake up, it's soon 2012, and there is no God, and there has never been a man calles "Jesus". The earth wan't created in seven days, it took millions of years to be created. So of you believe in this, you can might as well believe in Santa Clause. Because they are both fictional!
and he talks about equality of women not expressed in the bible but still men in society get paid higher wages for the same job a woman would do but wouldn't get the same amount or when back in the day women couldn't vote or drive and not only that but he tried to manipulate the audience to believe that we should change our mentality's and worship modern times and society instead of jesus please dont fall for this deceiving garbage people wake da fuck up to these things
u dumb muthafuckas this is an attempt to eliminate religion turning the whole population either into atheism or satanism and u sheep fall for the games
@ErikReinholdtHansen yes there are many dumb fucks out there starting with you illiterate fuck lmao "either into atheism or satanism" do you know what the word either means? go Wikipedia that shit up hoe
@ErikReinholdtHansen no you didn't but since it was my comment you were addressing and it had the word either you not only looked retarded one time but now twice lmao bitch your dumb face the fact now go read a dictionary and grammar book. Good Day may God bless you.
@SerieOrtiz The fact that you used the word either does not affect the fact that you put Satanism and Atheism in the same category! Satanism is just as moronic as Christianity. Atheism on the other hand frees you from all these fictional rules, and you actually get to use your own brain.
@ErikReinholdtHansen your are looking so stupid right now i cant even dont know if to take your serious anymore lmao either means either one or the other not both combined u down syndrome no education in my lifetime lookin azz hoe lmao and if you happen to be an atheist you must completely ignore that use your brain rule cuz i never met someone so stupid tbh and if its Christianity is fictional give me proof that atheism is not?
making them believe contradictory things, evil is good,
impossible things, illogical things, and everything considered unnormal and superstitious is suddenly normal ratinal everyday reality for them, even though they have never seen it for themselves. they have no evidence for the claims of the book. That makes them DISHONEST at the core.
Oh and they dont even flinch in an argument when they claim victory, because they say so. everyone laughs.
@sethecx You havent found evidence? It is more evidence around you than you need. Why havent scientists been able to create a simple grass straw? because there is a far more intelligent creator out there...
@sethecx but if that's the case it doesn't make a difference if your christian or atheist since you cant find proof for neither because you cant prove Christianity is real but nor can you prove atheism is real so really being whichever doesnt make a difference if this is what your claiming to believe in and there is evidence of God not even written accounts but face cloths of Jesus but now if you dont believe that why believe the planet is round it could be a hoax too there for have faith
off course it makes a difference. it is fundamentally dishonest to believe someone exists when you have no reason for believing so. aka no evidence.
so if your honest to yourself and dont believe the theist claim, that means you are an atheist. it the default. you're not necessarily claiming anything as an atheist. thats why it makes a difference.
i'll never get why people accept that this god or that god is real, magic, supernatural and miracles is ok, even though we cant find it
@sethecx we have reason from the bible, the buried apostles in Europe and the cloth marking Jesus' face we also have faith in God. But if anything don't fall for the garbage in this video
you cant prove to me or anyone else, not even yourself that all the supernatural stuff in the bible is truth, you cant prove the god in the Christians' bible is real..
so you have faith... hope.. wishful thinking.. but not stone cold, hard, viable scientific evidence. unfortunately. nothing magical and superstitious is found today, anywhere, except in dreams and fantasy, yet somehow many Christians claim it is real. they are dishonest. lying.
@sethecx I can prove Christianity from records in the Bible, Buried Apostles, A cloth with Jesus' face engraved in it, you may not believe it but i do. But now prove to me Atheism is real.
what do you mean prove atheism is real. just renounce god and you'll be an atheist too, then you'll know atheism is real. if there are atheists, then atheism is real.
"I can prove Christianity"
I am an atheist. if you want me to be a theist you must prove there is a god.. so show us the evidence or accept that you dont know if there is a god.
@SerieOrtiz You sir are a religious nutcase. religion has clouded peoples minds for centuries. Gay marriage, abortion for example, the only reason this is still an issue in some places in america (america as a example). Is because of religious people who do not care about the homosexuals, or the poor girl beeing raped and not wanting the rapists baby. You ONLY care about what GOD says is wrong or right. You are weak minded fool who needs to believe in god. I accept that. But dont ruin lives.
@Arne882k Message 1 of 2 - Gay Marriage - Humans are designed to populate the world with people through having intercourse. Men cant do this, therefore if homosexuality was meant to be men could also repopulate the world which they cant but instead would end up bringing an end to the world if everyone was gay. Abortion - there is no such thing as a natural abortion,,,abortion is man made and is the murder of an undeveloped and in some cases developed baby.
@Arne882k Message 2 of 2 - Girl Being Raped - People who truly follow God do not rape women, men or babies. Have Christians ever committed rape? Yes, but so has every other religion and non believer, therefore it has nothing to do with religion. You are lost and evidently weak minded you worship modern times instead of God. You agree with murdering undeveloped and developed babies through abortion but then have sympathy for a raped woman. You are confused and have been brainwashed.
@SerieOrtiz First of all, everyone can not be gay, 2 gay men can not get homosexual children... Beeing gay is an anomaly in the brain, homosexuals are equal in value to you and others, and they deserve a life of joy and to be with the ones they love. Who are they hurting? If your this much against it you should allso be against people with cancer, or other anomalys to get married. atleast those things you can inherit. Maybe we should just kill everyone who is born different than you?
@Arne882k Message 1 of 2 - I have gay friends all i said was homosexuality is not natural as the world could not continue if only gays walked the earth unlike if only straight people walked the earth. I didn't deny anybody from living. You wrote 3 comments without reading my 2 comments correctly i have nothing against a man because hes gay i simply said if homosexuality was meant to be or was natural the world could continue reproducing people without female assistance
@SerieOrtiz Religion was created for money, power and controlling the masses, it has been abused for centuries. And weak minded people who cant comprehense the complexity of the universe fall for it. Religious people are just as easily influenced by evil acts as anyone else, we are animals with instincts and we have all the ability to do evil things. And denying anyone who is different from you the opportunity to live a fulfilling life is evil, It's just as bad as racism.
What would you do if your son came to you and told you he was gay? Imagine how horrible it would be for a child not to be able to tell his father the truth, because hes afraid his father would hate him. Would you beat him? kill him? throw him out? Would you do the same thing if he came and told you he had cancer? I'ts not a humans fault his brain tells him to be attracted to the same sex. I hope you do get a gay son, maybe it will make you see clearly.
@SerieOrtiz And i dont worship modern times. I worship nothing. I believe in myself, I'm a creature on this earth, there is noone who tells me what to do and what not to do. I treat others as equals, even tho they are different. I choose my own faith, noone steers me in any direction. I am my own god. And I'm a good man with a big heart, filled with love for others. You on the other hand are not, you judge people and deny them a good life. So what is so perfect with your religion?
@Arne882k 2. You on the other hand are not, you judge people and deny them a good life. < You judged me by saying "You on the other hand are not" < You just judged me there without even knowing me but making wild assumptions, hypocritical? in Christianity the only man to judge any other man or woman is solely God like a song Tupac made back in the 90's "Only God Can Judge Me." Who's life have i denied? and my religion is perfect because it promotes Good the church gives us a bad name
@sethecx Message 1 of 2 - I have faith in God yes. Now prove atheism is real or your also are forced to have faith in atheism which brings me to tell you that you have faith and nothing more. Evidence of Jesus - There are several of Jesus apostles buried in Rome, A cloth with Jesus' face was discovered not too long ago. Those are 2 things, now you will go on to say that the physical evidence may not be true, in that case how can we be sure the earth is round or that Tupac really died?
"prove atheism is real" didnt we already run through this one? im not claiming anything, you are. you need proof, not me.
A cloth has been found with a picture of Jesus and this somehow proves the jesus of the bible?? HOW does that make sense?
The earth is round because anyone on a hill can see it curves, or anyone who travels high enough.. We have even traveled around the globe millions of times.
@sethecx Therefore you solely have faith but not proof that God does not exist, OK. Not only a sacred cloth but also multiple apostles buried across Europe. and i never saw the world curve from a hill unless your saying the hill itself curves which has nothing to do with the planet but then again we have pictures of earth from space and like i said before if you don't believe with your own eyes then your simply in-denial.
@sethecx Message 2 of 2 - I mean we have physical evidence but if your going to continue saying everything is a lie even tho the evidence is right in your face in a physical form then your just simply in denial and suffering from what i suspect is brainwashing and manipulation and it wouldn't surprise me if your parents or friends are mostly atheist, you sound like a victim of years of mind fuck since birth.
"you sound like years of mind fuck" I was raised in a house that was Christian, so yes, a few years of mind fuck. But thats what i learned in school. At home we never talked about religions... i suspect they dont give a damn, and dont have time for nonsense. It was just tradition to get baptized, conformed, married and buried in church. In all my time here in Norway, i have probably met more Muslims (immigrants) than Christians. Norwegians are mostly not superstitious.
@SerieOrtiz I have friends who are Christians and I respect that, I dont agree but who am I to tell them what to do? It's their choice. But people like YOU, who tell other people whats wrong and whats right, who judge and discriminate. You are the bad seeds of religion, and the reason i believe that if we never invented it, the world would be a much better place. You are NOT allowed to deny anyone ANYTHING. If you truly believe in God, let him do that for you. He created homosexuals too you know
@Arne882k You judged me again - i didn't tell anybody whats wrong or right i told people whats natural and whats not naturally possible. And God didn't create homosexuals society created the homosexual trend and if we didnt have religion more and more people would commit murder since they have no belief that you will be punished for your mortal sins such as taking somebody elses life away just like the US Government does daily to middle easterns and there own people.
@SerieOrtiz So your pro gay marriage then? because if your not, you are denying people happiness. Society did not create homosexuality, some people are "created" as homosexuals, it has nothing to do with society. You really think all moral rules in this world is from religion? Don't you think humans realized that you shouldnt kill or steal before religion? People committing murder does get punished, and are you saying that without religion you would start killing people?
@Arne882k I am nor pro nor against its not for me to judge my only opinion is it is not natural nor meant to be that can't be denied. Do i believe Gays shouldn't marry in churches? Yes, i do because it is against God but at the same time i dont believe in churches i believe in God churches are run by men and women not God therefore just because these people give Christianity a bad name doesn't mean it should change your opinion on God it should change your opinion on humanity.
@SerieOrtiz And beeing a bit unserious, why would i go to hell and get punished for living in sin on this earth? By living in sin I would please the devil wouldnt i? Why would he punish me? You stick so strongly to your 10 commandments, which is basicly 10 things any idiot would know was wrong. I live as if there is no god, and I dont run around killing people. And tbh, the most murders committed in history has some roots in religious beliefs or disagreement concerning religion.
@Arne882k Not true the most murders are about Money not religion and you say an idiot would know its wrong to kill but the 10 commandments enforce that and if you were to kill you should be punished not by another man but by God.
@otaku3d Do you PERSONALLY agree with society allowing abortions? God always preached to never kill as it is a mortal sin, you have never read the Bible and you are getting misleading information from non-believers on the internet.
@otaku3d I did answer and gave a question apart maybe you should read it a few times more since your obviously slow...Why would i be afraid of answering a question as if it would change anything? I know a question that scares atheists, give me proof God doesn't exist, can you answer those two questions the first one from my last comment and this one...or are you afraid?
@otaku3d You have unfortunately been so weak minded that the propaganda going on these past few years going against God has made you fall victim you have to be a stupid bitch to believe what this fool speaks about in the video about things such as we do not accept things such as abortion rights (baby murder), death penalty and assisted suicide because we are clouded by religion...people are not clouded this is simply murder murder murder, u fuckin retard do you agree with this u bitch?
@SerieOrtiz No you did not answer , you maneuver the question. answer YES or NO . is that simple. I will answer the question you made to me : No, I do NOT AGREE on abortion.
I am not afraid. i will answer the second, No i have no that god exist o does not exist. the only proof i have is god people like you are hypocritical and fool, that make me think all is just bull shit that turns good people EVIL.
Do you PERSONALLY agree with god on that baby killings god commanded?
nd to explain this video he uses emotional blackmail (wonderful loving family - tortured) in order to get the audience to co sign him and he gave too fictional stories which have no truth behind it being fictional but still he says look what god did in this non factual story, he is a bad man? but wasn't it a fiction story? but why did you ask if god is a moral monster in reality if his claim is fiction? society is more important than religion worship society not God our savior he says at the end
subconsciously...you came here to reassure yourself that God doesn't exist...therefore proving that He exists.“A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is alright. This is common sense really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not well you are sleeping.”
It's true. religious people only seem to care about the issues which conflict with their religion, and see no moral dilemma between their beliefs and the actions of their supposed god. This is cognitive dissonance of the worst sort.
Has anybody thought that Job may not have been a real man? A Fictional story to highlight certain messages, 'truths' about God? If Job was 'perfect' and 'without sin', then the bible would be lying, that Jesus was the only man to ever live a sinless life. Can the book of Job be misinterperated? Along with all the other senarios that see God taking part in terrible acts? Are both bible believers and non believers misinterperating the bible for their own motives?
It means that moral authority shouldn't come from a book of fables or fairy tales. It should come through reasoned argument and rational discourse. When you have an 'ultimate' authority for morality - how can you possibly know when it is wrong? What if reasoned thought would show that it is wrong, yet you stick to the ultimate authority anyway?
@valkhorn throughout all human history, has human reasoning and rational thought never failed? Have you delved into the bible itself and done research into this topic? What have you found?
No system is perfect because humans will always make mistakes. However, reason, logic, and rational thought have done more for civilization than anything else. It has built a collective knowledge base, improved the quality of life, improved chances for surviving against disease and sickness, and has given us more time to live. The reason it works is that it doesn't appeal to authority, but facts and evidence, and isn't afraid to change and adapt as needed.
@valkhorn I agree with some of what what you have said. Rational thought and understanding is good. However you havn't answered my question. Have you delved into the bible itself to see what it offers? What have you found?
Of course, but you can find find morality anywhere if it fits your perception of morality. Plus, no one book is infallible unless it copies laws of nature. The bible is incorrect in many facts and does not fit with a lot of reality. There was no global flood, bats aren't birds, etc. Reality is with or without us, and as Feyman said, if you don't like how the universe works, find another one.
@valkhorn Have you ever watched a movie that is both historically and scientifically incorrect, yet you've walked away enlightened about a truth or a new perspective? Do you look at the bible as a science book? I think it's far from it. Although I'm led to believe (my own choice to believe, granted) that there is a lot of archaeological and historical backup for a lot of the bible I'm not here to prove either way it's fallibility. However the bible is less about the how and more about the why.
@celticbre in the, bible authority is following the principle of the ALPHA MALE, not democracy. This god is like the alpha male, what he decides is ALWAYS right. not democracy in here. God is a line-cutter
@otaku3d Ok, trying to follow what your getting at. Can I assume you don't believe in the God of the Bible? In light of your democracy argument, have you read Genesis 18?
@celticbre some place there in the bible is said: is not for the interpretation of nobody. is as it is. better in the original language. some people say it is a manual (fundies) imagine yourself doing personal interpretations operate dangerous house tools.
yeah, but he also doesnt mention that Job got everything he had before and much more than he had to begin with afterwards, He did what He did to Job as a test to show the devil that he would trust God even through hardships
@34pdaddy11 How do you not see a problem with that? He KILLED HIS FAMILY and ruined his life for what?!?! To show the devil that Job's faith was unwavering? How selfish is that, how moral is that. Could a human do this and still be considered sane, let alone moral? See the light, step out of the cave.
@italbello6t9 this is a bed time story made up by manipulative priest just to say: "people thant don´t trust in god are wrong, look a this man, he is good!, so stop bitching about your problems" , there is no moral on it at all , its like a nazy bed story to mindwash nazy children.
@34pdaddy11 Why would an all powerful, omnipotent God need to prove himself to the Devil, a fallen angel? By betraying someone who loves & trusts him? If your neighbor says, "prove you can discipline your kids", do you beat the crap outa them, smash up the house and kill the family pet in front of them? THEN BUY THEM OFF? That's how kids grow up believing that love & fear are the same thing. God or human, you cannot justify that sort of thing. It's betrayal of the worst kind, pure & simple.
@34pdaddy11 the jewish ppl, many at least, use this line too--that we suffer under the gentiles because "god is testing our faith" and "he is punishing us with hardships". as long as they (and gentiles) are locked into this line of thinking, there will be no changes in behavior or actions to prevent future hardship. perhaps behavior, and not "hand of god," leads to consequences??
Bravo. Logic once again prevails. Yet the sheep will continue to walk blindly behind the false shepherds of religion. Nothing has changed. This man has merely clarified and put into simple terms what will never be accepted by those who refuse to accept what is beyond their understanding.
Although thou movedst me - The word rendered "movedst" סוּת sûth means to incite, to impel, to urge, to irritate against anyone; Joshua 15:18; Judges 1:14; 2 Chronicles 18:2; 1 Samuel 26:19; Jeremiah 43:3. The Septuagint renders this in a special manner, "And thou hast ordered (εἶπας eipas) his property to be destroyed in vain" (διακενῆς diakenēs), that is, without accomplishing the purpose intended.
You know, Dan is right. We did bomb two Japanese cities in WWII, BUT we did not do so with the intent of wiping out the Japanese-unlike the genocide committed by the "god" of the Old Testament.
I still remain open to the possibility of there being a god, but, if there is one, I hope it's not the god of the bible!!
Such a misrepresentation of that story. It wasn't God who afflicted Job, it was Lucifer. God was protecting him and knew Job wouldn't turn against Him, so God allowed Lucifer to test Job, but what's really interesting is that all of Job's friends and wife turned against Job, thinking he must've done something wrong, none would help him. But later God restored double what Job had lost during that time, and Job didn't complain, but praised God. Hey, you have to allow that fact too.
@vbirdieb "Such a misrepresentation of that story. It wasn't God who afflicted Job, it was Lucifer."
Such a misrepresentation of that story. God specifically gave Lucifer free license to inflict all sorts of misery on Job, except killing him - solely to prove a point. Which Lucifer then proceeded to do. Including murdering all of Job's children. This was obviously fine for Yahweh. being omniscient he must have thought his point was worth a few child murders.
@vbirdieb The sick view of morality that's presented in the story of Job becomes evident in what you summarize as:
"But later God restored double what Job had lost during that time, and Job didn't complain, but praised God."
Here we see a view of Job's children as Job's property. Murdering them was fine as long as Job could get an equal or greater number of children at a later time. This should strike you as disgusting as it disregards the kids as individuals capable of suffering.
If humans are in no position to assess whether god's actions are evil, since his ways are so far beyond our comprehension, by what standard do you call him good? You can't have it both ways. Either we are able to use our innate moral sense to judge certain actions as moral and immoral, or we are not. If we can't judge genocide, slavery, and the numerous other atrocities commanded by god as "bad" things, then we are in no position to judge him to be good either.
@GregoryElkins would you then accept that you and "god" are massive hypocrites and also don't lead by example? Would you accept that it is not respectable to create rules and then not abide by them as you are above everything? Would you accept that if two people "create" a baby they can do what they want with it and abort the foetus? Would you accept that your analogy of a pot telling anyone anything is silly seeing pots can't talk?
they aren't only morally compromised, they're mentally compromised as well..
shadowraptor888 12 hours ago
How can he claim that the Bible displays compromised morality when he knows nothing of the Bible? Job is a narrative constructed by a man/group of men to demonstrate how the Proverbs understanding of life (do good, get good things; do bad, get bad things) did not apply in every situation. Sometimes bad things happen; the sun shines on the just and unjust alike. It is a narrative intending to communicate something very specific, and this guy has sorely misused it.
perichoresis7 5 days ago
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GAY PRIDE FOREVER!!!!! ATHEIST PRIDE FOREVER!!!!! :)
100JBspecial1on1 1 week ago
(I do grant that not all christians believe in hell nor that you must have faith to go to heaven, but it is a basic tenet of the religion)
At best your god is just incompetent and unworthy or worship, at worst he is a monster.
Anyway, those're my last words on the matter.
Seymour13 1 week ago
Not to mention he supposedly instigated a blood sacrifice (jesus) when any god worth his salt won't need something so barbaric (or anything for that matter) to be able to fix something that was his blunder to begin with.
And to top it off; if you don't believe the unbelievable and accept jesus as your saviour you will not go to heaven no matter how good and moral a person you are (and instead go to hell, where you will suffer eternally), yet people no better or much worse than you will.
Seymour13 1 week ago
@Seymour13 You keep using language that implies you're appealing to a standard. You're saying he's "barbaric, a monster, morally repugnant." You say he "condones slavery, commits genocide, approves of stoning children, killing gays, etc." as if these things are wrong in your mind. Under what grounds does your worldview allow for you to hold the god of the bible to a standard? All of your arguments about the "god of the bible" regarding what he does in the bible are read so far out of context.
tsines3 1 week ago
@tsines3 If you would like an honest explanation of why God allows, even ordains suffering I'd be happy to give it.Your understanding of a law-giver's morality is flawed. God is immutable. His standards are immutable because they stem from his character. If morality stems from human beings and their common sense, what's wrong with rape? murder? It's just the behaviors that came about from their common sense. Who are we to say that those behaviors are wrong just because our common sense says dif?
tsines3 1 week ago
@tsines3
"Who are we to say that those behaviors are wrong just because our common sense says dif?"
Sane human beings, you fuckwit.
Search sam harris and matt dillahunty for an explanation of morality and 'god's character' (also an old and debunked argument, but takes more time to talk you through it than I'm willing to waste at this point).
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 week ago
@tsines3
(cont.)
"their common sense"
That's not comman sense, that's sociopathic/psychopathic behaviour and ppl who engage in it are less than sane and much less than human.
"If you would like an honest explanation of why God allows, even ordains suffering"
He's either lazy, incompetent, malevolent, sadistic or just plain uncaring (or all of the above).
But w/e, I could use a laugh.
Seymour13 1 week ago
@Seymour13 "Sane human beings"? Again you're appealing to some universal standard that does not exist according to your worldview. You can't say that behaviors innate to some humans is suddenly insane because it's not innate to all. There are plenty of species that force sex upon the opposite gender in order to reproduce. This is biologically beneficial because it increases the chance of the survival of the species (survival of the fittest). How can you say this isn't sane among humans?
tsines3 1 week ago
@tsines3
Fact is that ALL you need for a moral understanding is common sense; when you cause someone harm, it HURTS that person.
It's better for all involved to have a co-operative society than one which turns on itself (it's a 'quality of life' decision).
We live, we feel, we love, we suffer, we hurt; so we try to create a society that's generally as far from the worst possible scenario as possible.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 week ago
@tsines3
(cont.)
"How can you say this isn't sane among humans"
Because it physically and mentally hurts the victim.
Those people who LIKE to rape, kill, etc. have neurological disorders (scientifically proven).
i.e. Their brains are on the fritz.
Seymour13 1 week ago
@Seymour13 So though rape impedes on the rights of some yet it increases the likelihood of the survival of the species (biologically speaking it is beneficial), human beings label it wrong? Rape goes against this "common sense" standard you have in mind, yet all feelings aside, at times its actually better for the species. It looks like you're just making up a standard and casting out the extreme cases to make sense of a worldview that fits for what you want to believe.
tsines3 1 week ago
@Seymour13 What I'm saying is that you're suggesting that behaviors intrinsic to many species including some human beings "ought NOT" be. Yet, these behaviors are simply the outworkings of their biology. If we are simply the product of meaningless chance, how there be what "ought" and what "ought not" be behaviors? There's nothing (including behaviors) that exists that can be labeled as wrong, even if the majority doesn't like it. You can't say biology messed up.
tsines3 1 week ago
And once I grant you that your specific religion's god exists (as opposed to just a general notion of a creator, as in the previous bit) things really start to get freaky.
The god of the bible is one of the most morally repugnant characters in all of fiction; he condones slavery, condones and commits genocide, approves of the stoning of unruly children and killing gays.
Seymour13 1 week ago
So true.
The final sentence summarizes it all - should be repeated for emphasis;
"Your religion is more important (than real world issues) - you're too religious to actually care about these (real) issues"!
BiggerThinking1 1 week ago
Right now our economy is run by criminals and just looking at the numbers says "NO FUTURE" I see hardly any Christians identifying the predators of our world because they are too religious to think. Mind you.. there are some Christians that are pointing out these predators and speaking out against it. But, very few.
warpowers1861 1 month ago
If believers can''t even agree amongst themselves on what god looks like let alone his abilities how can we use him as a reference point?
dkthg 1 month ago 2
This argument does not work because if God does not exist (as he states the story is fiction), there are no grounds to appeal to suggesting that either of these scenarios are "evil." If he does exist, then morality is bound by God's nature. God's nature does not revolve around mankind but around God. Therefore, when we ask "Is God a moral monster?" We must be asking with God as the point of reference. Not man.
tsines3 1 month ago
@tsines3
Do a quick YT or google search, that argument has long since been debunked.
Seymour13 2 weeks ago
@Seymour13 It has not been debunked because the people attempting to debunk it have no concept of who God is. This is spoken about from a completely uninformed view. If this guy understood the entire anthology that he finds the book of Job in it, he would not be making this argument.
tsines3 2 weeks ago
@Seymour13 On my phone, your response about the hitler argument appears but not on my desktop so I'm just replying to this comment again. Your statement was "god...fails even by human standards...and is...irrelevant as he already fails our standard." Your premise is entirely flawed. There is no human standard. Our opinions are descriptive, not prescriptive. Your logic fails at the start by the fact that you appeal to a standard without a standard giver.
tsines3 2 weeks ago
@tsines3
Cute, but wrong.
Even if there is a standard giver, that changes nothing about reality nor is there any reason to assume that the standard giver has any authority to impose his views on humanity.
Common sense, decency and the awareness of our personal responsibility (we don't live in a vacuum, our actions affect those around us) is the foundation of morality.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 week ago
@tsines3
(cont.)
But more importantly; your logic fails at the start due to the fact that you appeal to a standard giver for morality, which suggests that morality depends on some cosmic being's whims.
As such morality is merely what he decides it to be at that particular point in time, and if he were to someday say that 'rape is good, murder is aswell' then you would have no argument against that because he is the 'standard giver'.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 week ago
@tsines3
(cont.)
Every moral person would know that it's still wrong regardless of that being's decree.
Those who point to a dictator of morality must accept that this being can change morality and that whatever he decides IS moral regardless of whether or not it ACTUALLY is.
Your logic eats itself.
-I'm done here.
Seymour13 1 week ago
@tsines3
Addendum: Even if I were to grant you that your god exists (which I don't), there is still one more hang-up.
Not only are some acts morally reprehensible, but all are guity of the good they do not do.
You propose an omnipotent, omniscient and 'omnibenevolent' being that created everything, yet allows so much suffering (and created atleast some of it) that would be no effort at all for him to correct.
Disease, mental illness, abuse (example: google Joseph Fritzl), genocide, famine, etc.
Seymour13 1 week ago
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Seymour13 2 weeks ago
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@tsines3
Besides, that's like using hitler as a point of reference for judging if hitler was good or bad.
Fact is, the god of the bible fails even by human standards of morality and as such whatever god's supposed standard is is utterly irrelevant as he already fails by our standard.
You appeal to an imaginary being as the center of morality doesn't work on anyone who is even remotely sensible.
Seymour13 2 weeks ago
@tsines3 Exactly. But of course, atheists will misunderstand what you've said by saying "ATHEISTS CAN BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD!!! >:("
Of course you can, atheist. We are not claiming otherwise. What we are claiming is that without God, there is no objective standard by which to call something good or evil.
BronyEditor 2 weeks ago
when you start to think and gain information that's when religion steps aside.
dkthg 1 month ago 2
Beware to those whom watch this video. Remember satan in the Garden Of Eden. He was soo inticing he fooled Adasm and Eve into believing a lie and sin enter the world. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing.
baker9368 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
The bible is not 'God', it's a book
why do people not address the bogus concept of infallibility, instead of playing along with the bibliolator's premise?
I think his is a poor strategy and always will
the bible is a great book, one of my favorites, but it's just a book
I can tell because of the ink and the paper and words and stuff
PorkFrog 1 month ago
Ha! I loved every word of that
ryanderekdalos 2 months ago
This is what happens when you take the bible literary.
Kadadj 2 months ago
@Kadadj tellme , this is a bad thing? is this bad for God?
otaku3d 2 months ago in playlist Wake Up
Im also glad you enjoy my music sethecx and since i am a child of God instead of saying you "in-denial atheist suck my dick and don't play my shit" i rather say it is not my place to discriminate or judge you because of your beliefs so enjoy my music and at least study one of the many religions instead of letting your environment dictate what you should believe in.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
i study everything, religions too.. but i suspect many christians dont.
they OBSESS about their religion only, and their holy book. They cant ever tell me why their dogma is correct and another religion is wrong, because they only know their own. And to show a cloth and claim it Proves Jesus of the bible is just not gonna fly... it is completely ridiculous, but many dont even get that. You tend to go: CAN U DISPROVE THIS? NO? REPENT! And u did. U just accept it all.
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx And werent you the so called Perfect Atheist saying that abortions are alright? the murder of undeveloped and developed babies. I see who is the bad person...you and that man in the clip telling us to accept death penalty's and assisted suicide you must be out your muthafuckin mind u sick fuck then he goes on to excuse this behaviour saying Religious people are blinded we are not blinded you people agreeing with this man are blinded into a murder spree.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
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@SerieOrtiz
i didnt mention abortion.
so are you gonna show me the proof that your god exists or are you admitting that you just have faith?
sethecx 3 months ago
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mnekelund 3 months ago
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mnekelund 3 months ago
FUCK all you scammers "selling religion", want to have believes keep them for yourselves.
fe1278 3 months ago
Although Christians always talk about faith, they don't have any at all. Their Jesus said that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you could move mountains Mathew 17:20. I don't know of any Christian ever in the last 2000 years moving mountains. What they do have though is a whooping case of mental illness.
saburius 3 months ago
The ending statement brings to mind the old saying "One is so heavenly minded that one is of no earthly use"
SHRIAO 3 months ago
"It's fiction!"
Hey now, don't jump the gun!
BeBoBli 3 months ago
god is nothing more than a fragment of some peoples imagination.
Nuff said !
nrk98 3 months ago
If you really want to know just read those chapters -_-
DeathRot2012 3 months ago
This isnt proof that Christianity is false, and we as Christians are not morally compromised. Tell the world your moral superiority.
FalkenVX 3 months ago
This is a manipulative, emotional blackmail, planned and thought out speech to try to make people accept the insane actions going on in society in these times by trying to have you believe that you can't accept these things not because there bad (which they evidently are) but because your religion is clouding your thoughts which are positive thoughts while the things this man spoke about (birth control, abortion,death, suicide) are NEGATIVE. Worship the manufactured evil world not God he says.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
I have a watch...and I was looking for the creator inside of it...but i coudnt find him...as for the world, people are looking for God...but they cant find him...ever seen the size of beetlegeuse the planet? it will jump start your thinking of a creator.
iDecember 3 months ago
Everyone is an atheist, until he opens his eyes and look around...something as "simple" as the photosynthesis...your house is build by someone...a simple construction...but the world isnt?
iDecember 3 months ago
Well, this guy obviously doesnt have a clue what that story was about. Here a quick explanation. Satan said, that any man would turn away from God, if his life was taken away from him, in this case, everything he got, and nearly himself...this proved satan wrong...coz job didnt turn away from God, even if he didnt understand the wrong that was done to him. Therefore, a truly good person, with true love for God as it should be.
iDecember 3 months ago
@iDecember so god destroyed this mans life to prove a point? The more you try to justify this, the worse it gets!
kabbinj2 3 months ago
@iDecember Satan dared him to destroy Job's life by killing his whole family.. and he did! You probably think that is was justified because then Satan was proven wrong... but frankly, WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT SATAN's OPINIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU KNOW THE DUDE IS AN EVIL ASSHOLE?
Face it.. YOUR GOD IS A TOOL and did satan's bidding by doing a devilishly evil act!
Smirnoff71 3 months ago
Ha! LOVE IT!
Piffer76 3 months ago
This does not only apply to Christians - all religion clouds your judgement.
bloodsuckingclown 3 months ago
Haters gonna hate! Christians wake up, it's soon 2012, and there is no God, and there has never been a man calles "Jesus". The earth wan't created in seven days, it took millions of years to be created. So of you believe in this, you can might as well believe in Santa Clause. Because they are both fictional!
ABC123Norge 3 months ago
I am in love with this man....
ErikReinholdtHansen 3 months ago
and he talks about equality of women not expressed in the bible but still men in society get paid higher wages for the same job a woman would do but wouldn't get the same amount or when back in the day women couldn't vote or drive and not only that but he tried to manipulate the audience to believe that we should change our mentality's and worship modern times and society instead of jesus please dont fall for this deceiving garbage people wake da fuck up to these things
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
u dumb muthafuckas this is an attempt to eliminate religion turning the whole population either into atheism or satanism and u sheep fall for the games
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz You put Atheism and Satanism in the same category? Holy s**t there are many dumb fucks out there..
ErikReinholdtHansen 3 months ago
@ErikReinholdtHansen yes there are many dumb fucks out there starting with you illiterate fuck lmao "either into atheism or satanism" do you know what the word either means? go Wikipedia that shit up hoe
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz I did not use the word "either" in my comment, so your comment is invalid.
ErikReinholdtHansen 3 months ago
@ErikReinholdtHansen no you didn't but since it was my comment you were addressing and it had the word either you not only looked retarded one time but now twice lmao bitch your dumb face the fact now go read a dictionary and grammar book. Good Day may God bless you.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz The fact that you used the word either does not affect the fact that you put Satanism and Atheism in the same category! Satanism is just as moronic as Christianity. Atheism on the other hand frees you from all these fictional rules, and you actually get to use your own brain.
ErikReinholdtHansen 3 months ago
@ErikReinholdtHansen your are looking so stupid right now i cant even dont know if to take your serious anymore lmao either means either one or the other not both combined u down syndrome no education in my lifetime lookin azz hoe lmao and if you happen to be an atheist you must completely ignore that use your brain rule cuz i never met someone so stupid tbh and if its Christianity is fictional give me proof that atheism is not?
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz wikipedia OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
dozztown 3 months ago
christianity is a disease making people insane.
making them believe contradictory things, evil is good,
impossible things, illogical things, and everything considered unnormal and superstitious is suddenly normal ratinal everyday reality for them, even though they have never seen it for themselves. they have no evidence for the claims of the book. That makes them DISHONEST at the core.
Oh and they dont even flinch in an argument when they claim victory, because they say so. everyone laughs.
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx what is your religion?
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
i dont follow any religions
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx so your an atheist?
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
i dont believe in any of the claims that some god is real
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx like i said prove atheism
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
i know im an atheist because i havent found evidence for gods. that doesnt require proof, im not claiming anything.
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx You havent found evidence? It is more evidence around you than you need. Why havent scientists been able to create a simple grass straw? because there is a far more intelligent creator out there...
iDecember 3 months ago
@iDecember
are you concluding that since science hasnt been able to make grass that:
1) it can never be done in a lab.
2) nature cannot have made it by natural means.
3) someone very smart must have made it, and it must have been a god.
If you have some viable scientific evidence that proves a religions god exists then tell us.
sethecx 3 months ago
@iDecember I'm sorry to say it, but you've lost quite some time ago.
xzbyte2002 3 months ago
@sethecx but if that's the case it doesn't make a difference if your christian or atheist since you cant find proof for neither because you cant prove Christianity is real but nor can you prove atheism is real so really being whichever doesnt make a difference if this is what your claiming to believe in and there is evidence of God not even written accounts but face cloths of Jesus but now if you dont believe that why believe the planet is round it could be a hoax too there for have faith
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
off course it makes a difference. it is fundamentally dishonest to believe someone exists when you have no reason for believing so. aka no evidence.
so if your honest to yourself and dont believe the theist claim, that means you are an atheist. it the default. you're not necessarily claiming anything as an atheist. thats why it makes a difference.
i'll never get why people accept that this god or that god is real, magic, supernatural and miracles is ok, even though we cant find it
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx we have reason from the bible, the buried apostles in Europe and the cloth marking Jesus' face we also have faith in God. But if anything don't fall for the garbage in this video
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
you have faith, nothing more.
you cant prove to me or anyone else, not even yourself that all the supernatural stuff in the bible is truth, you cant prove the god in the Christians' bible is real..
so you have faith... hope.. wishful thinking.. but not stone cold, hard, viable scientific evidence. unfortunately. nothing magical and superstitious is found today, anywhere, except in dreams and fantasy, yet somehow many Christians claim it is real. they are dishonest. lying.
sethecx 3 months ago 2
@sethecx I can prove Christianity from records in the Bible, Buried Apostles, A cloth with Jesus' face engraved in it, you may not believe it but i do. But now prove to me Atheism is real.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
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@SerieOrtiz
what do you mean prove atheism is real. just renounce god and you'll be an atheist too, then you'll know atheism is real. if there are atheists, then atheism is real.
"I can prove Christianity"
I am an atheist. if you want me to be a theist you must prove there is a god.. so show us the evidence or accept that you dont know if there is a god.
sethecx 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz You sir are a religious nutcase. religion has clouded peoples minds for centuries. Gay marriage, abortion for example, the only reason this is still an issue in some places in america (america as a example). Is because of religious people who do not care about the homosexuals, or the poor girl beeing raped and not wanting the rapists baby. You ONLY care about what GOD says is wrong or right. You are weak minded fool who needs to believe in god. I accept that. But dont ruin lives.
Arne882k 3 months ago
@Arne882k Message 1 of 2 - Gay Marriage - Humans are designed to populate the world with people through having intercourse. Men cant do this, therefore if homosexuality was meant to be men could also repopulate the world which they cant but instead would end up bringing an end to the world if everyone was gay. Abortion - there is no such thing as a natural abortion,,,abortion is man made and is the murder of an undeveloped and in some cases developed baby.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@Arne882k Message 2 of 2 - Girl Being Raped - People who truly follow God do not rape women, men or babies. Have Christians ever committed rape? Yes, but so has every other religion and non believer, therefore it has nothing to do with religion. You are lost and evidently weak minded you worship modern times instead of God. You agree with murdering undeveloped and developed babies through abortion but then have sympathy for a raped woman. You are confused and have been brainwashed.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
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Arne882k 3 months ago
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Arne882k 3 months ago
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Arne882k 3 months ago
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Arne882k 3 months ago
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Arne882k 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz First of all, everyone can not be gay, 2 gay men can not get homosexual children... Beeing gay is an anomaly in the brain, homosexuals are equal in value to you and others, and they deserve a life of joy and to be with the ones they love. Who are they hurting? If your this much against it you should allso be against people with cancer, or other anomalys to get married. atleast those things you can inherit. Maybe we should just kill everyone who is born different than you?
Arne882k 3 months ago
@Arne882k Message 1 of 2 - I have gay friends all i said was homosexuality is not natural as the world could not continue if only gays walked the earth unlike if only straight people walked the earth. I didn't deny anybody from living. You wrote 3 comments without reading my 2 comments correctly i have nothing against a man because hes gay i simply said if homosexuality was meant to be or was natural the world could continue reproducing people without female assistance
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz Religion was created for money, power and controlling the masses, it has been abused for centuries. And weak minded people who cant comprehense the complexity of the universe fall for it. Religious people are just as easily influenced by evil acts as anyone else, we are animals with instincts and we have all the ability to do evil things. And denying anyone who is different from you the opportunity to live a fulfilling life is evil, It's just as bad as racism.
Arne882k 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
What would you do if your son came to you and told you he was gay? Imagine how horrible it would be for a child not to be able to tell his father the truth, because hes afraid his father would hate him. Would you beat him? kill him? throw him out? Would you do the same thing if he came and told you he had cancer? I'ts not a humans fault his brain tells him to be attracted to the same sex. I hope you do get a gay son, maybe it will make you see clearly.
Arne882k 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz And i dont worship modern times. I worship nothing. I believe in myself, I'm a creature on this earth, there is noone who tells me what to do and what not to do. I treat others as equals, even tho they are different. I choose my own faith, noone steers me in any direction. I am my own god. And I'm a good man with a big heart, filled with love for others. You on the other hand are not, you judge people and deny them a good life. So what is so perfect with your religion?
Arne882k 3 months ago
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@Arne882k 2. You on the other hand are not, you judge people and deny them a good life. < You judged me by saying "You on the other hand are not" < You just judged me there without even knowing me but making wild assumptions, hypocritical? in Christianity the only man to judge any other man or woman is solely God like a song Tupac made back in the 90's "Only God Can Judge Me." Who's life have i denied? and my religion is perfect because it promotes Good the church gives us a bad name
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@sethecx Message 1 of 2 - I have faith in God yes. Now prove atheism is real or your also are forced to have faith in atheism which brings me to tell you that you have faith and nothing more. Evidence of Jesus - There are several of Jesus apostles buried in Rome, A cloth with Jesus' face was discovered not too long ago. Those are 2 things, now you will go on to say that the physical evidence may not be true, in that case how can we be sure the earth is round or that Tupac really died?
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
"prove atheism is real" didnt we already run through this one? im not claiming anything, you are. you need proof, not me.
A cloth has been found with a picture of Jesus and this somehow proves the jesus of the bible?? HOW does that make sense?
The earth is round because anyone on a hill can see it curves, or anyone who travels high enough.. We have even traveled around the globe millions of times.
Who knows if 2pac died.
sethecx 3 months ago
@sethecx Therefore you solely have faith but not proof that God does not exist, OK. Not only a sacred cloth but also multiple apostles buried across Europe. and i never saw the world curve from a hill unless your saying the hill itself curves which has nothing to do with the planet but then again we have pictures of earth from space and like i said before if you don't believe with your own eyes then your simply in-denial.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@sethecx Message 2 of 2 - I mean we have physical evidence but if your going to continue saying everything is a lie even tho the evidence is right in your face in a physical form then your just simply in denial and suffering from what i suspect is brainwashing and manipulation and it wouldn't surprise me if your parents or friends are mostly atheist, you sound like a victim of years of mind fuck since birth.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz
"you sound like years of mind fuck" I was raised in a house that was Christian, so yes, a few years of mind fuck. But thats what i learned in school. At home we never talked about religions... i suspect they dont give a damn, and dont have time for nonsense. It was just tradition to get baptized, conformed, married and buried in church. In all my time here in Norway, i have probably met more Muslims (immigrants) than Christians. Norwegians are mostly not superstitious.
sethecx 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz I have friends who are Christians and I respect that, I dont agree but who am I to tell them what to do? It's their choice. But people like YOU, who tell other people whats wrong and whats right, who judge and discriminate. You are the bad seeds of religion, and the reason i believe that if we never invented it, the world would be a much better place. You are NOT allowed to deny anyone ANYTHING. If you truly believe in God, let him do that for you. He created homosexuals too you know
Arne882k 3 months ago
@Arne882k You judged me again - i didn't tell anybody whats wrong or right i told people whats natural and whats not naturally possible. And God didn't create homosexuals society created the homosexual trend and if we didnt have religion more and more people would commit murder since they have no belief that you will be punished for your mortal sins such as taking somebody elses life away just like the US Government does daily to middle easterns and there own people.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz So your pro gay marriage then? because if your not, you are denying people happiness. Society did not create homosexuality, some people are "created" as homosexuals, it has nothing to do with society. You really think all moral rules in this world is from religion? Don't you think humans realized that you shouldnt kill or steal before religion? People committing murder does get punished, and are you saying that without religion you would start killing people?
Arne882k 3 months ago
@Arne882k I am nor pro nor against its not for me to judge my only opinion is it is not natural nor meant to be that can't be denied. Do i believe Gays shouldn't marry in churches? Yes, i do because it is against God but at the same time i dont believe in churches i believe in God churches are run by men and women not God therefore just because these people give Christianity a bad name doesn't mean it should change your opinion on God it should change your opinion on humanity.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz And beeing a bit unserious, why would i go to hell and get punished for living in sin on this earth? By living in sin I would please the devil wouldnt i? Why would he punish me? You stick so strongly to your 10 commandments, which is basicly 10 things any idiot would know was wrong. I live as if there is no god, and I dont run around killing people. And tbh, the most murders committed in history has some roots in religious beliefs or disagreement concerning religion.
Arne882k 3 months ago
@Arne882k Not true the most murders are about Money not religion and you say an idiot would know its wrong to kill but the 10 commandments enforce that and if you were to kill you should be punished not by another man but by God.
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@SerieOrtiz almost half of the 10 commandments enforce to submit to Jehovah down to idiocy
otaku3d 2 months ago in playlist Wake Up
@otaku3d Society is the one pushing idiocy not religion but you obviously being anti religion wouldn't know that as you seem to idiotic yourself.
SerieOrtiz 2 months ago
@SerieOrtiz I mean to protect bible god will all cost. down to idiocy
Please answer this:
Do you PERSONALLY agree with that baby killings god commanded?
otaku3d 2 months ago
@otaku3d Do you PERSONALLY agree with society allowing abortions? God always preached to never kill as it is a mortal sin, you have never read the Bible and you are getting misleading information from non-believers on the internet.
SerieOrtiz 2 months ago
@SerieOrtiz Do you PERSONALLY agree with that baby killings god commanded?
otaku3d 2 months ago
@SerieOrtiz Are you afraid of answering this simple question with a simple answer? does that mean... you DO agree?
otaku3d 2 months ago
@otaku3d I did answer and gave a question apart maybe you should read it a few times more since your obviously slow...Why would i be afraid of answering a question as if it would change anything? I know a question that scares atheists, give me proof God doesn't exist, can you answer those two questions the first one from my last comment and this one...or are you afraid?
SerieOrtiz 2 months ago
@otaku3d You have unfortunately been so weak minded that the propaganda going on these past few years going against God has made you fall victim you have to be a stupid bitch to believe what this fool speaks about in the video about things such as we do not accept things such as abortion rights (baby murder), death penalty and assisted suicide because we are clouded by religion...people are not clouded this is simply murder murder murder, u fuckin retard do you agree with this u bitch?
SerieOrtiz 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SerieOrtiz No you did not answer , you maneuver the question. answer YES or NO . is that simple. I will answer the question you made to me : No, I do NOT AGREE on abortion.
I am not afraid. i will answer the second, No i have no that god exist o does not exist. the only proof i have is god people like you are hypocritical and fool, that make me think all is just bull shit that turns good people EVIL.
Do you PERSONALLY agree with god on that baby killings god commanded?
otaku3d 2 months ago
nd to explain this video he uses emotional blackmail (wonderful loving family - tortured) in order to get the audience to co sign him and he gave too fictional stories which have no truth behind it being fictional but still he says look what god did in this non factual story, he is a bad man? but wasn't it a fiction story? but why did you ask if god is a moral monster in reality if his claim is fiction? society is more important than religion worship society not God our savior he says at the end
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
subconsciously...you came here to reassure yourself that God doesn't exist...therefore proving that He exists.“A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is alright. This is common sense really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not well you are sleeping.”
ThisizPrince 3 months ago
@ThisizPrince your claim needs better evidence than an uncredited (and nonsensical) quote
TheShortStory 3 months ago
@ThisizPrince yes, he proves the evil character . congratulations!
otaku3d 2 months ago
9 people are brainwashed christians.
TonjeMarcella 3 months ago
words
magto270993 3 months ago
It's true. religious people only seem to care about the issues which conflict with their religion, and see no moral dilemma between their beliefs and the actions of their supposed god. This is cognitive dissonance of the worst sort.
SkeksisRule 3 months ago
don't have a go at God, he's an impressionable boy.
andywattbulb 3 months ago
Has anybody thought that Job may not have been a real man? A Fictional story to highlight certain messages, 'truths' about God? If Job was 'perfect' and 'without sin', then the bible would be lying, that Jesus was the only man to ever live a sinless life. Can the book of Job be misinterperated? Along with all the other senarios that see God taking part in terrible acts? Are both bible believers and non believers misinterperating the bible for their own motives?
celticbre 3 months ago
@celticbre
Then you could 'interpret' any book any way you want with that logic.
valkhorn 3 months ago
@valkhorn my point exactly. So what does that mean for any argument proposed by either side?
celticbre 3 months ago
@celticbre
It means that moral authority shouldn't come from a book of fables or fairy tales. It should come through reasoned argument and rational discourse. When you have an 'ultimate' authority for morality - how can you possibly know when it is wrong? What if reasoned thought would show that it is wrong, yet you stick to the ultimate authority anyway?
valkhorn 3 months ago
@valkhorn throughout all human history, has human reasoning and rational thought never failed? Have you delved into the bible itself and done research into this topic? What have you found?
celticbre 3 months ago
@celticbre
No system is perfect because humans will always make mistakes. However, reason, logic, and rational thought have done more for civilization than anything else. It has built a collective knowledge base, improved the quality of life, improved chances for surviving against disease and sickness, and has given us more time to live. The reason it works is that it doesn't appeal to authority, but facts and evidence, and isn't afraid to change and adapt as needed.
valkhorn 3 months ago
@valkhorn I agree with some of what what you have said. Rational thought and understanding is good. However you havn't answered my question. Have you delved into the bible itself to see what it offers? What have you found?
celticbre 3 months ago
@celticbre
Of course, but you can find find morality anywhere if it fits your perception of morality. Plus, no one book is infallible unless it copies laws of nature. The bible is incorrect in many facts and does not fit with a lot of reality. There was no global flood, bats aren't birds, etc. Reality is with or without us, and as Feyman said, if you don't like how the universe works, find another one.
valkhorn 3 months ago
@valkhorn Have you ever watched a movie that is both historically and scientifically incorrect, yet you've walked away enlightened about a truth or a new perspective? Do you look at the bible as a science book? I think it's far from it. Although I'm led to believe (my own choice to believe, granted) that there is a lot of archaeological and historical backup for a lot of the bible I'm not here to prove either way it's fallibility. However the bible is less about the how and more about the why.
celticbre 3 months ago
@celticbre in the, bible authority is following the principle of the ALPHA MALE, not democracy. This god is like the alpha male, what he decides is ALWAYS right. not democracy in here. God is a line-cutter
otaku3d 2 months ago
@otaku3d Ok, trying to follow what your getting at. Can I assume you don't believe in the God of the Bible? In light of your democracy argument, have you read Genesis 18?
celticbre 2 months ago
@celticbre some place there in the bible is said: is not for the interpretation of nobody. is as it is. better in the original language. some people say it is a manual (fundies) imagine yourself doing personal interpretations operate dangerous house tools.
otaku3d 2 months ago
@otaku3d sorry, I'm finding it difficult to follow what your trying to say?
celticbre 2 months ago
yeah, but he also doesnt mention that Job got everything he had before and much more than he had to begin with afterwards, He did what He did to Job as a test to show the devil that he would trust God even through hardships
34pdaddy11 3 months ago
@34pdaddy11 How do you not see a problem with that? He KILLED HIS FAMILY and ruined his life for what?!?! To show the devil that Job's faith was unwavering? How selfish is that, how moral is that. Could a human do this and still be considered sane, let alone moral? See the light, step out of the cave.
italbello6t9 3 months ago
@italbello6t9 this is a bed time story made up by manipulative priest just to say: "people thant don´t trust in god are wrong, look a this man, he is good!, so stop bitching about your problems" , there is no moral on it at all , its like a nazy bed story to mindwash nazy children.
otaku3d 2 months ago
@34pdaddy11 Why would an all powerful, omnipotent God need to prove himself to the Devil, a fallen angel? By betraying someone who loves & trusts him? If your neighbor says, "prove you can discipline your kids", do you beat the crap outa them, smash up the house and kill the family pet in front of them? THEN BUY THEM OFF? That's how kids grow up believing that love & fear are the same thing. God or human, you cannot justify that sort of thing. It's betrayal of the worst kind, pure & simple.
billyrossjapan 3 months ago
@34pdaddy11 the jewish ppl, many at least, use this line too--that we suffer under the gentiles because "god is testing our faith" and "he is punishing us with hardships". as long as they (and gentiles) are locked into this line of thinking, there will be no changes in behavior or actions to prevent future hardship. perhaps behavior, and not "hand of god," leads to consequences??
yurianne07 3 months ago
@34pdaddy11 yea, you lost you child? here are another, brand new, ones.
otaku3d 2 months ago
That example pwned
0tedaCecapS 3 months ago
Bravo. Logic once again prevails. Yet the sheep will continue to walk blindly behind the false shepherds of religion. Nothing has changed. This man has merely clarified and put into simple terms what will never be accepted by those who refuse to accept what is beyond their understanding.
TL;DR: Faithblind is the new Truthiness
wraithbane01 3 months ago
Awesome. Well said, Dan Barker. Enough said.
Chuloloc 3 months ago 2
Although thou movedst me - The word rendered "movedst" סוּת sûth means to incite, to impel, to urge, to irritate against anyone; Joshua 15:18; Judges 1:14; 2 Chronicles 18:2; 1 Samuel 26:19; Jeremiah 43:3. The Septuagint renders this in a special manner, "And thou hast ordered (εἶπας eipas) his property to be destroyed in vain" (διακενῆς diakenēs), that is, without accomplishing the purpose intended.
kcyt777 4 months ago
You know, Dan is right. We did bomb two Japanese cities in WWII, BUT we did not do so with the intent of wiping out the Japanese-unlike the genocide committed by the "god" of the Old Testament.
I still remain open to the possibility of there being a god, but, if there is one, I hope it's not the god of the bible!!
dave4shmups 4 months ago
@dave4shmups amen!!
otaku3d 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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youneekk 4 months ago
Such a misrepresentation of that story. It wasn't God who afflicted Job, it was Lucifer. God was protecting him and knew Job wouldn't turn against Him, so God allowed Lucifer to test Job, but what's really interesting is that all of Job's friends and wife turned against Job, thinking he must've done something wrong, none would help him. But later God restored double what Job had lost during that time, and Job didn't complain, but praised God. Hey, you have to allow that fact too.
vbirdieb 4 months ago
@vbirdieb "Such a misrepresentation of that story. It wasn't God who afflicted Job, it was Lucifer."
Such a misrepresentation of that story. God specifically gave Lucifer free license to inflict all sorts of misery on Job, except killing him - solely to prove a point. Which Lucifer then proceeded to do. Including murdering all of Job's children. This was obviously fine for Yahweh. being omniscient he must have thought his point was worth a few child murders.
Gnomefro 3 months ago 2
@vbirdieb The sick view of morality that's presented in the story of Job becomes evident in what you summarize as:
"But later God restored double what Job had lost during that time, and Job didn't complain, but praised God."
Here we see a view of Job's children as Job's property. Murdering them was fine as long as Job could get an equal or greater number of children at a later time. This should strike you as disgusting as it disregards the kids as individuals capable of suffering.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@vbirdieb God allowed child murder to test... mmm
otaku3d 2 months ago
Comment removed
GregoryElkins 5 months ago
@GregoryElkins
If humans are in no position to assess whether god's actions are evil, since his ways are so far beyond our comprehension, by what standard do you call him good? You can't have it both ways. Either we are able to use our innate moral sense to judge certain actions as moral and immoral, or we are not. If we can't judge genocide, slavery, and the numerous other atrocities commanded by god as "bad" things, then we are in no position to judge him to be good either.
bdwilson1000 4 months ago 29
@bdwilson1000 And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we like to call a well-deserved bitch slap.
cancerousmojo 4 months ago 8
@bdwilson1000 whats your religion
SerieOrtiz 3 months ago
@bdwilson1000 why the god of Israel can not be judged? this is a matter of national security :P
otaku3d 2 months ago
@GregoryElkins The "Might Makes Right" argument is a FAIL!
06mustangCE 4 months ago
@GregoryElkins would you then accept that you and "god" are massive hypocrites and also don't lead by example? Would you accept that it is not respectable to create rules and then not abide by them as you are above everything? Would you accept that if two people "create" a baby they can do what they want with it and abort the foetus? Would you accept that your analogy of a pot telling anyone anything is silly seeing pots can't talk?
jonsweep 4 months ago
@GregoryElkins Precisely what a morally compromised person would say.
ludogogo 4 months ago