From what I gather, saying that athiesm is actually a belief system with faith in the theories behind that which it is based upon (Which, in essence, makes it religion.) will be futile to expand upon, as BionicDance will insist on refusing the simple fact that his/her belief system fits the definitions of a religion and will continue to. Would juts like to make one point though, religion isn't a bad thing. Stop trying to make it seem like it is. It shows how great humanity's networking can be.
@TimPriestnall I don't HAVE a belief system; I'm just not on board with the religious belief systems that have been proposed because they do not fit the evidence.
Religion IS a bad thing; it butts into our lives, unwelcome, and tries to make us conform to its dogma(s).
@TimPriestnall Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity or deities. How is a lack of belief a belief system? And most atheists, including Keight and I, feel religion is a bad thing because it takes away responsibility and free thought.
@TimPriestnall this is a common misfire in the creationist brain caused by the invalid coupling of science and atheist. Athiesm is not a belief system not even in science it is mearly a rejection of one single claim, god or gods. Most atheist extend this to anything you cannot document, and most atheist embrace science. but the two are unrelated thus when the believer tries to shoot down science thinking that somehow hurts the "atheist world view" they do nothing.
Ok. For a start I'm not religious or anything of the sort, before you tear me down. But religion doesn't have to involve God... its a belief system that you worship. When we say worship in this case we do not mean to sing to, or to pray to. We mean to focus on and put time and effort into.
definition of religion: A particular system of faith and worship
@TimPriestnall Atheism doesn't fit those categories AT ALL.
Atheism is eschewing those categories, atheism is rejecting them, or at the very least not participating in them for whatever reason. You don't even have to make a conscious decision to be an atheist; you only have to be too ignorant of these concepts to be a part of them; that's why babies are atheists.
How do we know babies are athiests? Did you ask one? And a religion is a belief system, if you believe that the universe was not created by a God, and devote your time (which I might point out, if you didn't notice, you did) to this system of beliefs. I understand your point, that there isn't evidence for a God, but there also isn't evidence against it. I'm not posing pascals wager, but just making a point that arguing about this is pointless. It's a pointless waist of cyberspace
@TimPriestnall Oh, come now; they've done studies on infant brain power, and babies aren't even capable of forming the CONCEPT of a god, much less believing in one.
There doesn't HAVE to be evidence against god; until there is evidence FOR one, the default is that one isn't there.
@BionicDance so i read ur arugement with @bhole97 and you shouldnt get so mad at him, he did the best he could to find evidence, christ may have been a real person but doesnt mean he was really god's son. you asked him for evidence when you being an atheist alrdy knew there was none good enough, you asked a person without feet to run a mile. o and @bhole97 search evidence for the big bang and watch philhellenes video
@BionicDance Thats slightly over the top... A person who has a belief system will not change their views just because someone puts up a fair argument to counter. I could come up with thousands of reasons why a Christian wouldn't, because I was one. Now, I don't know if there is a God or not, that isn't for me to decide. But you insist on doing... so please, explain to me how you know a God of some kind doesn't exist. And please don't make a video, I can't stand you're transsexual face.
@TimPriestnall " A person who has a belief system will not change their views just because someone puts up a fair argument to counter"...? *raise eyebrow*
Then that person is a moron who refuses to bow to reality when it is called for. If someone disproves a point--with evidence--that I was previously convinced of, I WILL change my mind to match reality; it's the only sensible thing to do.
@BionicDance It's true, you can argue with me as much as you like, but for the time I think I'm right. Doesn't matter how many eyebrows you raise. If however, this argument does have evidence, it does make it a little more substantial. With the thing about God, no science can apply. That doesn't mean a deity doesn't exist, but it also means that he does. Evidence is quite over rated when it comes to belief systems which require faith.
@TimPriestnall Who SAYS no science can apply? *raised eyebrow* According to most holy texts, gods have interacted with this universe in a tangible way; I'd say that makes them QUITE subject to scientific scrutiny.
@BionicDance Not necessarily, explain how a God who interacts with our universe can pop in and out of existence with a snap of his holy fingers(not saying it did happen.)? Now, we say this is impossible, but if this happened infront of your eyes right now (not saying it will, or will ever either, just hypotheticals again), what would you do? freak out? yeah, because its like trying to imagine a new colour. Impossible to comprehend.
@TimPriestnall I don't HAVE to explain that to show a god does or doesn't exist; that's irrelevant.
Unless a god actually shows up in a way science can detect, we have no evidence a god exists that can possibly be trusted. Objective, empirical, scientific data, or it could all be imagination or hallucination.
@BionicDance Hold on a minute? You just said you don't have to explain that God doesn't exist...? then why are you posting a videos on Youtube thrusting your opinions on the general public? I'm half way through a comment where I will retract from this conversation, as it's going nowhere. Don't bother replying, as you won't get one back. Good luck with your evangelism. /Tim
@TimPriestnall I said it's not necessary because it isn't required; non-belief can just happen all on its own if one is ignorant or of one lets it.
...only there are SOME people making our lives WORSE with their belief, their dogma, their religion. THAT'S why I make these videos: to stop the believer asshats making our lives less pleasant.
It's like, applying the completely incorrect means of argument evaluation. If a person requires faith to understand and belief in a deity, then smashing them to death with science books will make f'all difference.
@TimPriestnall They SAY they require faith, but I see no difference between having faith and playing make-believe, REALLY.
Yet their holy text make claims that COULD be verified by science, if they were true. I have NEVER seen one of these claims proved true in a way that had empirical, objective evidence to back it up.
@BionicDance Having faith is different that make belief. It requires a complete belief, not a piss poor story you made up with your friends.
And with your last counter argument, I would like to point out that in the 'holy texts' you speak of it says that "The LORD stretched out the heavens with his hands". Recently in astronomy we did notice that the universe isn't slowing down its expansion but actually speeding up. But still, that's not evidence for or against a God, is it?
@TimPriestnall The ONLY difference between having faith and playing make believe is that the people playing make believe are aware they're making it up. Show me ANY functional difference between having faith playing make believe besides that. I dare you.
And what you're talking about is IRRELEVANT; god can allegedly make it rain, can talk to people, can appear before people, etc, instead of hiding all the time and demanding faith. Until a god DOES SO, belief is unwarranted.
i'm sorry i don't want to be that one asshole but i have to nitpick here. Atheism is disbelief in deities, not religion. there are religions that are, traditionally atheistic, Buddhism for example. but otherwise great video.
@tehloserisyou Ah but for something to be a religion it must have a 'set' of foundational priniciples or a 'set' of beliefs. As far as I know atheism only has one; not believing in a "God/s".
@tehloserisyou, I'd say both you and themongru are correct. Atheism means no belief in deities, not necessarily a "lack of religion" (as Bionicdance here incorrectly defines it). You CAN have one without the other. The real reason why atheism isn't a religion is the same reason why monotheism and polytheism aren't religions: these words just describe a stance on deity, nothing more. You need a lot more than that (philosophy, dogma, ceremony, etc.) before you can have a religion.
The forces and effects of gravity, air, wind, heat and other effects from stars and galaxies far away that aren't conspicuous or visible to use are still measurable. It doesn't need to be visible to be known to exist.
However, EVERYTHING that could once be attributed to god, any god, can in this day and age be attributed to science. We know why the tides go in and out, why the sun sets and rises, and why natural disasters occur. We don't need god to explain everything. He is obsolete!
@bhole97 If the existence of god cannot be proved SCIENTIFICALLY, and proved using EMPIRICAL, OBJECTIVE DATA, it is simply not good enough. Period.
Can you satisfy those conditions or not? Give me a straight fucking answer with your next reply, or I'm blocking you. It's that simple...I'm sick of fucking around, I'm sick of being given the run-around by you. Either ACTUALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION, or ADMIT THAT YOU CAN'T...or BE BLOCKED. Pick one.
@bhole97 And what YOU are saying is that you have exactly ZERO testable evidence that a god exists, nothing that can be independently verified SCIENTIFICALLY.
@bhole97 Dude...seriously...what the FUCK is wrong with you? *raised eyebrow* I'm not going to accept this BULLSHIT as evidence. I've told you what my requirements are...can you fill them, or are you just wasting my time?
You're talking about a period in history when people were credulous FOOLS who didn't understand a damn thing about how the universe REALLY functions. They were gullible, and we have NO WAY to trust those documents.
You are going to have to give me something contemporary, you are going to have to give me something scientific, and you are going to have to give me something DIRECT. In other words, make god fucking well show up IN PERSON..or I'm not buying it.
@bhole97 I'll answer your question AFTER you've answered mine, which you still haven't done.
What specific kind of evidence do I want? SCIENTIFIC evidence. Empirical, objective evidence, the sort that can stand up to critical scrutiny by disinterested third parties. You've got to prove to me that god exists in a way that would hold up against THAT kind of scrutiny. Not a book, not a historical account, not something mysterious...present-day, real-world, TANGIBLE AND DIRECT EVIDENCE.
@bhole97 STILL doesn't answer my question; the examples you give would not convince me in the least. What you describe could happen WITHOUT a god; I need SCIENTIFIC evidence.
So, again, what's the difference between having faith and playing make-believe? How do you TELL the difference, by SHOWING that god is real...DIRECTLY?
@bhole97 So I ask you again, what is the difference between having religious faith...and playing make-believe? Why should faith indicate that something is real, while playing pretend is CLEARLY imagination?
Why SHOULDN'T we demand proof instead of faith from the religious?
@bhole97 That doesn't really answer my question at all; if the difference is ONLY in how serious someone takes faith or playing make-believe, then one thing that is NOT different between them is that religion and playing pretend ARE BOTH FICTION. As in god is no more real than the pirates you and your friends are pretending to fight.
But religious people claim that god is REAL...yet they still demand faith of us instead of providing proof. Church is just one big game of make-believe, kiddo.
@bhole97 Um...bull. Not all atheists are into science; they just don't believe in a god. And "no belief in a god" is not a practice, it's a requirement of the definition; atheists don't PRACTICE non-belief in deities, non-belief in deities MAKES YOU an atheist. It's an attribute, not dogma!
Atheism is not religion, atheism is LACKING religion. There is no dogma or scripture, no required beliefs, nothing. Atheism is just not being on of "them", meaning theists. That's all.
I would consider myself an atheist, but I'd also consider it just as much of a belief system as any other religion. You have to make an active pronouncement upon the world. This may be what people mean when they say atheism is a religion
In a way, if atheism were considered a religion,that would be much better for us atheists. We would end up having the same rights as other religious people,in that their downright offensive attempts to convert/save us would be offensive to our belief system
...uhh, no you don't. All you have to do to be an atheist is to not be a theist, meaning not believe in a god. Babies are all atheist; none of them believe in gods because they're not aware of the concept; it only takes ignorance to be an atheist.
Atheism is not a religion because atheism has no content; all atheism is, really, is not being a theist. Period.
@BionicDance I'm not trying to start an argument here, just to discuss something I actively study. I suppose you could probably make different divisions between those who really don't give a shit about god or whatever and those who are quite militant in their atheism. I'm in the latter category, as I was indoctrinated as a child . Maybe it could be a similar situation as in passive and active nihilism...just thinking. I'd still say it involves a belief system though. I dunno,what's your stance?
@BionicDance Ah see, for me, it's all about the active rejection of everything. I suppose we see here that it isn't a universal and there are differing levels. Maybe your stance is the norm and I'm just insane. If I ever write my thesis I'll send you a link, you might enjoy it.
Good video though, nice to see someone spreading the message of NO GOD.
@lightsatsparkwood21 Well, tell me...what do you call someone who doesn't believe in god because they'd never heard of the concept, but for the same reason cannot actively reject god either? Are they not an atheist? They're certainly not a theist...so what are they if NOT an atheist?
@BionicDance I'd probably say they're removed from the whole argument as both positions are defined (in terms of language and a lot of competing ideology) upon each other. I look at my father and see someone who I would consider as being from a completely neutral position, as he discovered the idea of god relatively late in life, and just ignored it as the contradictory bullshit that it is. This is in comparison to myself, and my prior indoctrination though. hMMM. In short, I really don't know..
@lightsatsparkwood21 Except they're not removed from the argument. They're not a theist, and the syllable 'a-' denotes negation, therefore they--as not-theists--are a-theists. Atheists. It's that simple.
@BionicDance Actually, to be honest I have no idea. While we're on the subject though you should have a look at some Sartre, if you haven't already. You'll probably love it. Specifically "existentialism and humanism". Bloody good book that, changed my life and so on....
Buddhism is a religion, but it doesn't have a god. i'm sorry, but the basis of the argument is flawed. that being said, atheism is not a religion because it makes no dogmatic assertion about ANYTHING. every thing we positively state is rooted in fact. All an atheist has to do it not believe in god. but that's not a positive statement based on dogma. it's a negative statement until further evidence is acquirable.
@BionicDance I talked to a monk about this. The monk told me it was a religion. his words. I was embarrassingly corrected in front of a large group of people for asserting that it wasn't. I'm trusting the monk on this one.
@BionicDance Is reincarnation not a religious concept ? Is it "a soul" that reincarnates ? Is believing you have a soul religious or spiritual ? (it's certainly a very thin line between religion and these deluded buddhist beliefs. Maybe Buddhism is partly a slight form of madness without some god fantasy but more realistic the whole of nature? Enlighten me short and sweet please. Concerning the soul and afterlife I like my fridges to work : see "Brain Cox Carpool" on YT.
@isleofyew1 It's spiritual...but religious? I don't think so. Not inherently.
You can believe in reincarnation without the dogma of religion, without the deity, without the ritual, without the buildings, without the clothing, without ANYTHING but the belief.
Is ESP religious? Is astral projection religious? Crystal healing? Hell, belief in UFOs? Where is the dividing line?
I say that if there aren't gods, dogma, churches/temples, priests, or any of that garbage, it's spirituality, not religion
@BionicDance (Brain Cox carpoolUK). THX for your answer. The more science the less spirituality has room to go overboard, agreed? I'm new to your channel and you seem 2 have an interesting brain. I never had English lessons so do not be severe on that point. bye 4 now.
@BlankPicketSign definitely a possibility. but either way, that wouldn't make atheism a religion, come to think about it, your idea of atheism makes it seem lees religious than mine.
@MrNthDegree I don't agree. I think that's more of a spirituality than a religion. That may be semantics, but still; I see them as distinct from one another.
Religions, all of them have doctrine that they are based on. Their doctrine is not up for debate and does not successfully change without creating a offshoot division. Religious beliefs are based on FAITH because they can not stand up to close scientific scrutiny , with the scientific method. Atheism has no doctrine. It is not based on faith. Atheist don't base their belief that there is no God on dogma or on faith but on the fact that their is no evidence of any God . SS
But atheism is the lack of a belief in god: not the lack of religion as you seem to be arguing. Why can't you have a atheist religion. To me a religion or religious beliefs is the set of beliefs and practices by which a person or group identify themselves. Atheism as defined in the dictionary, much like theism, is really just a way we group or categorize a broader set of belief which are typically sub divided into specific religions/ religious beliefs.
@BionicDance Without god your beliefs are based on other things but you do not hold them any less strongly than theist. What differentiates theist and atheist is not how they believe but rather what they believe. Atheist rituals & dogma may be built around logic, reason, the scientific method, evidence, skepticism, naturalism, etc but we utilize and practice them in our live no less than theist study their holy text, prayer and incantations. Is BionicDance merely a philosophy fan club.
@BionicDance Nice flippant answer, people usually give when they want to hide something they are uncomfortable with.
Reality Check. If you look at the videos you make, you realize the person who makes them is truly passionate about her atheism, reason, and activism.
Face it, your an atheist preacher. Admittedly, you're more the street preacher type...beat them over the head with fire and brimstone (reason and science) until they see the light. You do it quite well and it is badly needed.
@BionicDance Are you claiming that there is no altruism in your actions?...that you don't care about your audience? ,,,You're not doing it for your fellow atheists?...that you don't think any of your actions is helping other people?... and it's only selfishness? If you say so but I don't believe it.
@BionicDance I think I get the context, I just don't see your intent being as limited as you do. I am man of evidence, and your actions (i.e. the number and content of your videos) does not really agree with your claims of pure self interest. "Smiting the the evil ones" (aka stopping the assholes) may be what got you started or is your primary cause but there are a lot easier ways to do it, if it is only yourself, that you are worried about them being crappy to.
@BionicDance (shoulders shrugged) Sorry, I interpreted "Nobody is talking about altruism. I'm talking about SELFISHNESS" to actually mean what you said. The only "other people" in your comments were about the "assholes" you are trying to stop.
I'm trying to pay attention but right now I am really confused as to what you think your motivations for doing BionicDance are. In the last comment, you seem to be backing away from the selfishness of previous ones.
@BigAtheist See, the problem is that you have to KEEP READING. After the part about selfishness, I WENT ON TO SAY other things. Relevant things. Things that RELATE to the part about selfishness. If you're only going to read one sentence and then use THAT to formulate your argument, you're Doing It Wrong™.
And frankly, you're not making me want to talk to you particularly, since you seem unwilling to address anything I say IN CONTEXT. You're cherry picking, and that's Not Okay™.
@BionicDance "Keep reading"...OK, after "I'm talking about SELFISHNESS"; you talked about "their dogma as ... disagree with 'em. That should stop" and then again in your next comment with "and the way they behave like assholes toward other people." I commented both times about them, trying to reconcile them with your SELFISHNESS statement and all you could say is pay attention over and over. I guess I'm just dumb so could you please paste what specific comments you think I am not getting.
@BigAtheist The part abotu their behaving like assholes toward other people DESCRIBES their selfishness.
They want marriage defined only their way, and allowed to only the pairing THEY approve of. Selfish.
They want the choice over abortion to be made only their way. Selfish.
...and so on. There are a LOT of things they want done ONLY the way that religion approves of, THEIR religion; according to their religion, their god gave this world to THEM. Selfish.
@BionicDance Thank you. I took the selfishness statement to mean you were saying the reason you were doing Bionic Dance was for selfish reasons as opposed to altruism. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Note: I am quite aware of which THEM you talking about, I do watch many of your videos.
I'm tempted to ask why you seemed to have a problem with suggesting that your actions were altruistic but I only have an hour before I need to go to bed.
@BigAtheist Frankly, I never thought you were talking about me doing this for altruistic reasons. I was never talking about me in the first place, and the subject of the video was not altruism at all; it was a COMPLETE breakdown in communication, frankly.
@BionicDance Gotta' love the ambiguity of the English language.
The altruism thing only came about by me trying to use you as an example of an atheist doing more for their beliefs than just a be "philosophy fan club"
@BigAtheist It wasn't a problem with English...we were talking past each other; we each had our own agenda and the other just plain wasn't on board with it. And neither of us wanted to defer to the other either. THAT'S what really happened.
Anyway, I'm against religion because it encourages willful ignorance, treating imagination as reality, and because it hurts people. I "preach" against it to make it STOP...not because I want to replace it with my own congregation of rationalists.
@YourXavier Tell me what fundamentally differentiates Soviet era communist party and Nazi party from most large organized religions. As far as I can tell they all have the same general structure, overall control over the constituencies, scope of influence on their lives, etc. Some people have made a religion out of sports. Many aspects & attributes of most organization resemble some aspect of religion. My definition missed that religion is usually the overarching and dominant set of beliefs.
"Tell me what fundamentally differentiates Soviet era communist party and Nazi party from most large organized religions"
But we're not just talking about the communist or nazi parties. Your definition didn't specify a social structure nor totalitarian tendencies. ALL political parties would fit your definition.
I think you've watered down the definition to the point where it's useless. I'd say that to call something a religion, it must include beliefs about the supernatural.
@YourXavier By requiring that religions include supernatural belief, any person who rejects the super natural are by definition not a religion. So naturalism can't be a religion, Deism could, Raëlian can't, Scientology could(?), Buddhism (atheist but still could), agnostic maybe(?). So the belief in the super natural is the defining characteristic of religion. All the aspects like the social infrastructure, impact on peoples lies, shaping of society, source of morality, etc is secondary.
they can't accept that when atheists get vocal about religion, we are talking to THEM and not their invisible friend (but because they talk to an invisible friend, they assume its all about him...)
Those Christians who say that atheism is a religion do so for the same reason that they say that Hitler was an atheist or that Darwin recanted on his death bed....
Because it makes us MAD :-(
So... just ignore the whining little Shits and they might go away...
I think calling Atheism a religion is more like the religious trying gain more credibility by putting both ideologies on the same playing field. Then they could be considered equally valid and a false dichotomy can be formed. Missing here is an essential tenet of religion: unquestioning faith.
It's funny just how many different stances qualify as atheistic. This is why it bothers me that atheists are being treated as some religion, when even our reasons for being atheist are not necessarily the same, or even always compatible with one another. Just taking a stance upon the god concept does not make one religious.
@atheistram arteism has to do with is theism not religion otherwise it would be called areligion, so i don't loose anything. Just accept the facts and let people decide for themselves.
@ByronAnderson Of course it does not say anything about atheism. I asked because I really don't know and call them what you want is silly in that case. I can't call them anything but unexplored by me. THX for your time anyway..
Taoism has deities such as the Jade emperor, Laozi, and the 3 pure ones.
Jainism (it's an i not an e) has deities known as Yaksha and Yakshini.
Buddhism is the only religion without a deity, which is why people argue whether it really is a religion or if it is a philosophy. Please, do your research.
Sure, I don't disagree with that, but you can not claim they do not have deities when Hinduism, Taoism, and Jainism have recognized deities. Also, Confucianism is not a religion, as somebody who lives in Korea which is a deeply Confucianism-influenced society, it would be like saying that Knights of the Dark Age followed the religion of Chivalry, it's a philosophy and nobody who knows about it treats it as a religion.
IQ remark is actually irrelevant, some people are just bound emotionally and act irrationally on the subject on order to keep their faith intact. But the indiviual won't know it unless the idea of atheism takes over. Which in my case I would certainly consider myself naïve, but did I boost my intelligence somehow? No, I simply inhereted a new way of thinking; the scientific method. Otherwise you have to make them hate God to reliquish them of their emotional ties and hopes of an afterlife :|
@worldofwhite In all fairness I must say that I "try" to be rational but we humans are not vulcans! I believe my pet rat "loves" me but my only evidence is his behavior.
@worldofwhite All humans have beliefs. We athiests reject beliefs that require denial of imperical evidence. I "believe" in Australia even though I have never been there!
Actually you can be religious and an atheist. Unless you define religion as involving some sort of god or gods but then Buddhism would immediately cease to be a religion. I personally define religion as "the set of beliefs and practices regarding the supernatural a specific person has and shares with other people in a defined community". Well, something like that at least.
Damn good points in this video. I tell the religious folks what, the moment a group congregates itself to worship some deity in the name of Atheism, they can call them a religious cult. But they still wouldn't fit the fucking bill of what Atheism is.
There are atheistic religions. Certain varieties of Buddhism deny the existence of any god. But this is not to say, of course, that therefore atheism as such is a religion.
@SisyphusRedeemed Buddhism is more a lifestyle than a religion. Otherwise how would you get christian buddhists? And there are a growing number of them. Budhism is a philosiphy, not a theology.
@VinnyMonster1 There is certainly something to what you say, but I don't think it really flies. There are too many similarities between Buddhism and other 'canonical' religions to simply segregate it. Buddhism is taught in world religions courses and in comparative religion departments, it's referred to as a religion by it's practitioners, it's houses of worship get tax-exempt status from the U.S. government... It's a religion, just not a theistic one.
@SisyphusRedeemed Well, I can't disagree with your post. But still, atheism is not a religion. Religions are really speaking the systems put into place to worship a faith. Atheism has no such structure, there are no ceremonies, there are no prayers or holy days, no festivals. And all religions, even Budhism which as you pointed out, I must accept as a religion, has a faith and a belief in supernatural forces which guide and shape the universe. Atheism does not.
@VinnyMonster1 Atheism is a lack of religion, there are no denominations of atheism, because you can't divide nothing. Religions have denominations. Atheism has no congregations, no places of worship, because atheists do not worship anything, but religions have these things.
There are hundreds of definitions of religion, all have problems, and a common one is ->
Some definitions are so broadly written that they include beliefs and areas of study that most people do not regard as religious. David Edward's definition would seem to include cosmology and ecology within his definition of religion -- fields of investigation that most people regard to be a scientific studies and non-religious in nature."
This would be a problem with any definition that includes atheism.
I always find it amuseing when they insult us by compareing us to themselves.
Oh, it gets even better when they actually try to defend that statement. When they do, they often define 'Religion" as an absolute obsession with something, something that a person thinks about 24/7.
Now, I'm a huge nerd, but even I have enough of a life to think about different things ocasionally.
Their definition of "Religion" not only confirms that I don't have one but just makes me pitty them.
@dechha1981 I've learned to stay away from arguments based on semantics. Apologist have such weak arguments on anything of substance that they resort to wasting time debating definitions.
When people tell me atheism is a religion, I just ask them "How does one go about not having a religion?", and watch them squirm as they realize they've made the word religion completely useless by claiming everybody in the world is religious.
a-theism = non-theism = LACK of belief.
saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair colour, or NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.
taffysaur 1 week ago
From what I gather, saying that athiesm is actually a belief system with faith in the theories behind that which it is based upon (Which, in essence, makes it religion.) will be futile to expand upon, as BionicDance will insist on refusing the simple fact that his/her belief system fits the definitions of a religion and will continue to. Would juts like to make one point though, religion isn't a bad thing. Stop trying to make it seem like it is. It shows how great humanity's networking can be.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall I don't HAVE a belief system; I'm just not on board with the religious belief systems that have been proposed because they do not fit the evidence.
Religion IS a bad thing; it butts into our lives, unwelcome, and tries to make us conform to its dogma(s).
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance "I don't HAVE a belief system;" Yes you do.
It's just not a religious one.
BigLundi 2 weeks ago
@TimPriestnall Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity or deities. How is a lack of belief a belief system? And most atheists, including Keight and I, feel religion is a bad thing because it takes away responsibility and free thought.
HimesInu 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall this is a common misfire in the creationist brain caused by the invalid coupling of science and atheist. Athiesm is not a belief system not even in science it is mearly a rejection of one single claim, god or gods. Most atheist extend this to anything you cannot document, and most atheist embrace science. but the two are unrelated thus when the believer tries to shoot down science thinking that somehow hurts the "atheist world view" they do nothing.
CapQuacer 1 month ago
@CapQuacer Common misconception that you're not a fag.
TimPriestnall 1 month ago
@TimPriestnall The Christian love? Name calling.
CapQuacer 1 month ago
@TimPriestnall homophobe
TheDrewManXD 4 weeks ago
@TimPriestnall Is not collecting stamps a hobby? And for every good, there are at least five cases of atrocity done in the name of some religion.
HimesInu 3 weeks ago
Ok. For a start I'm not religious or anything of the sort, before you tear me down. But religion doesn't have to involve God... its a belief system that you worship. When we say worship in this case we do not mean to sing to, or to pray to. We mean to focus on and put time and effort into.
definition of religion: A particular system of faith and worship
definition of worship: Adoration or devotion
Athiesm fits these catagories.
Live with it, if you can't, stop yacking.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall Atheism doesn't fit those categories AT ALL.
Atheism is eschewing those categories, atheism is rejecting them, or at the very least not participating in them for whatever reason. You don't even have to make a conscious decision to be an atheist; you only have to be too ignorant of these concepts to be a part of them; that's why babies are atheists.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance
How do we know babies are athiests? Did you ask one? And a religion is a belief system, if you believe that the universe was not created by a God, and devote your time (which I might point out, if you didn't notice, you did) to this system of beliefs. I understand your point, that there isn't evidence for a God, but there also isn't evidence against it. I'm not posing pascals wager, but just making a point that arguing about this is pointless. It's a pointless waist of cyberspace
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall Oh, come now; they've done studies on infant brain power, and babies aren't even capable of forming the CONCEPT of a god, much less believing in one.
There doesn't HAVE to be evidence against god; until there is evidence FOR one, the default is that one isn't there.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance so i read ur arugement with @bhole97 and you shouldnt get so mad at him, he did the best he could to find evidence, christ may have been a real person but doesnt mean he was really god's son. you asked him for evidence when you being an atheist alrdy knew there was none good enough, you asked a person without feet to run a mile. o and @bhole97 search evidence for the big bang and watch philhellenes video
Ribcage88 7 months ago
@Ribcage88 Then he should have admitted to being full of shit.
BionicDance 7 months ago
@BionicDance Thats slightly over the top... A person who has a belief system will not change their views just because someone puts up a fair argument to counter. I could come up with thousands of reasons why a Christian wouldn't, because I was one. Now, I don't know if there is a God or not, that isn't for me to decide. But you insist on doing... so please, explain to me how you know a God of some kind doesn't exist. And please don't make a video, I can't stand you're transsexual face.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall " A person who has a belief system will not change their views just because someone puts up a fair argument to counter"...? *raise eyebrow*
Then that person is a moron who refuses to bow to reality when it is called for. If someone disproves a point--with evidence--that I was previously convinced of, I WILL change my mind to match reality; it's the only sensible thing to do.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance It's true, you can argue with me as much as you like, but for the time I think I'm right. Doesn't matter how many eyebrows you raise. If however, this argument does have evidence, it does make it a little more substantial. With the thing about God, no science can apply. That doesn't mean a deity doesn't exist, but it also means that he does. Evidence is quite over rated when it comes to belief systems which require faith.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall Who SAYS no science can apply? *raised eyebrow* According to most holy texts, gods have interacted with this universe in a tangible way; I'd say that makes them QUITE subject to scientific scrutiny.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance Not necessarily, explain how a God who interacts with our universe can pop in and out of existence with a snap of his holy fingers(not saying it did happen.)? Now, we say this is impossible, but if this happened infront of your eyes right now (not saying it will, or will ever either, just hypotheticals again), what would you do? freak out? yeah, because its like trying to imagine a new colour. Impossible to comprehend.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall I don't HAVE to explain that to show a god does or doesn't exist; that's irrelevant.
Unless a god actually shows up in a way science can detect, we have no evidence a god exists that can possibly be trusted. Objective, empirical, scientific data, or it could all be imagination or hallucination.
Period.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance Hold on a minute? You just said you don't have to explain that God doesn't exist...? then why are you posting a videos on Youtube thrusting your opinions on the general public? I'm half way through a comment where I will retract from this conversation, as it's going nowhere. Don't bother replying, as you won't get one back. Good luck with your evangelism. /Tim
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall I said it's not necessary because it isn't required; non-belief can just happen all on its own if one is ignorant or of one lets it.
...only there are SOME people making our lives WORSE with their belief, their dogma, their religion. THAT'S why I make these videos: to stop the believer asshats making our lives less pleasant.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance (ran out of comment space) Cont:
It's like, applying the completely incorrect means of argument evaluation. If a person requires faith to understand and belief in a deity, then smashing them to death with science books will make f'all difference.
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall They SAY they require faith, but I see no difference between having faith and playing make-believe, REALLY.
Yet their holy text make claims that COULD be verified by science, if they were true. I have NEVER seen one of these claims proved true in a way that had empirical, objective evidence to back it up.
BionicDance 4 months ago
@BionicDance Having faith is different that make belief. It requires a complete belief, not a piss poor story you made up with your friends.
And with your last counter argument, I would like to point out that in the 'holy texts' you speak of it says that "The LORD stretched out the heavens with his hands". Recently in astronomy we did notice that the universe isn't slowing down its expansion but actually speeding up. But still, that's not evidence for or against a God, is it?
TimPriestnall 4 months ago
@TimPriestnall The ONLY difference between having faith and playing make believe is that the people playing make believe are aware they're making it up. Show me ANY functional difference between having faith playing make believe besides that. I dare you.
And what you're talking about is IRRELEVANT; god can allegedly make it rain, can talk to people, can appear before people, etc, instead of hiding all the time and demanding faith. Until a god DOES SO, belief is unwarranted.
BionicDance 4 months ago
i'm sorry i don't want to be that one asshole but i have to nitpick here. Atheism is disbelief in deities, not religion. there are religions that are, traditionally atheistic, Buddhism for example. but otherwise great video.
tehloserisyou 8 months ago
@tehloserisyou Ah but for something to be a religion it must have a 'set' of foundational priniciples or a 'set' of beliefs. As far as I know atheism only has one; not believing in a "God/s".
themongru 5 months ago
@tehloserisyou, I'd say both you and themongru are correct. Atheism means no belief in deities, not necessarily a "lack of religion" (as Bionicdance here incorrectly defines it). You CAN have one without the other. The real reason why atheism isn't a religion is the same reason why monotheism and polytheism aren't religions: these words just describe a stance on deity, nothing more. You need a lot more than that (philosophy, dogma, ceremony, etc.) before you can have a religion.
geezerbill 5 months ago
@bhole97
The forces and effects of gravity, air, wind, heat and other effects from stars and galaxies far away that aren't conspicuous or visible to use are still measurable. It doesn't need to be visible to be known to exist.
However, EVERYTHING that could once be attributed to god, any god, can in this day and age be attributed to science. We know why the tides go in and out, why the sun sets and rises, and why natural disasters occur. We don't need god to explain everything. He is obsolete!
steviej321 8 months ago
"I see no god up here."
~Man on the moon
yourmomwuzhere 8 months ago
@bhole97 If the existence of god cannot be proved SCIENTIFICALLY, and proved using EMPIRICAL, OBJECTIVE DATA, it is simply not good enough. Period.
Can you satisfy those conditions or not? Give me a straight fucking answer with your next reply, or I'm blocking you. It's that simple...I'm sick of fucking around, I'm sick of being given the run-around by you. Either ACTUALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION, or ADMIT THAT YOU CAN'T...or BE BLOCKED. Pick one.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 And what YOU are saying is that you have exactly ZERO testable evidence that a god exists, nothing that can be independently verified SCIENTIFICALLY.
In other words, god is BULLSHIT.
Thanks for playing.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Dude...seriously...what the FUCK is wrong with you? *raised eyebrow* I'm not going to accept this BULLSHIT as evidence. I've told you what my requirements are...can you fill them, or are you just wasting my time?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Sorry, NOT GOOD ENOUGH
You're talking about a period in history when people were credulous FOOLS who didn't understand a damn thing about how the universe REALLY functions. They were gullible, and we have NO WAY to trust those documents.
You are going to have to give me something contemporary, you are going to have to give me something scientific, and you are going to have to give me something DIRECT. In other words, make god fucking well show up IN PERSON..or I'm not buying it.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Sorry...not good enough.
Give me something CONTEMPORARY. You know...recent. And not in a book; in the real world.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 In other words, cut faith out of the loop ENTIRELY, and replace it with FACTS.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 I'll answer your question AFTER you've answered mine, which you still haven't done.
What specific kind of evidence do I want? SCIENTIFIC evidence. Empirical, objective evidence, the sort that can stand up to critical scrutiny by disinterested third parties. You've got to prove to me that god exists in a way that would hold up against THAT kind of scrutiny. Not a book, not a historical account, not something mysterious...present-day, real-world, TANGIBLE AND DIRECT EVIDENCE.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 And what reason to I have to suspect that the bible isn't just christian fan fiction, hmm?
The bible is NOT evidence; I need something in the REAL world, not a book and not somebody's head.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 STILL doesn't answer my question; the examples you give would not convince me in the least. What you describe could happen WITHOUT a god; I need SCIENTIFIC evidence.
So, again, what's the difference between having faith and playing make-believe? How do you TELL the difference, by SHOWING that god is real...DIRECTLY?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 This STILL doesn't answer my question.
How do I TELL that god is real in a way that I'm SURE it's not just my imagination? As in, how do I find god OUTSIDE my own head?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 So I ask you again, what is the difference between having religious faith...and playing make-believe? Why should faith indicate that something is real, while playing pretend is CLEARLY imagination?
Why SHOULDN'T we demand proof instead of faith from the religious?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 That doesn't really answer my question at all; if the difference is ONLY in how serious someone takes faith or playing make-believe, then one thing that is NOT different between them is that religion and playing pretend ARE BOTH FICTION. As in god is no more real than the pirates you and your friends are pretending to fight.
But religious people claim that god is REAL...yet they still demand faith of us instead of providing proof. Church is just one big game of make-believe, kiddo.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Can you tell me the difference is between having religious faith and playing make-believe REALLY...?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Can you tell me the difference is between having religious faith and playing make-believe REALLY...?
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Actually, you CAN change my mind...you just can't do it without presenting facts and evidence that don't require faith.
BionicDance 8 months ago
@bhole97 Um...bull. Not all atheists are into science; they just don't believe in a god. And "no belief in a god" is not a practice, it's a requirement of the definition; atheists don't PRACTICE non-belief in deities, non-belief in deities MAKES YOU an atheist. It's an attribute, not dogma!
Atheism is not religion, atheism is LACKING religion. There is no dogma or scripture, no required beliefs, nothing. Atheism is just not being on of "them", meaning theists. That's all.
BionicDance 8 months ago
This makes perfect sense. Wish I had seen it sooner, a fave.
thereforeithought 9 months ago
Atheism may not be a religion, but in recent years, it’s sure as hell has been appearing like one.
r3v3ng3ofthef4113n 9 months ago
0:55 I would like this soundclip to play at appropriate moments throughout my day.. that would be great..
Hersoftestsoul 9 months ago
I would consider myself an atheist, but I'd also consider it just as much of a belief system as any other religion. You have to make an active pronouncement upon the world. This may be what people mean when they say atheism is a religion
In a way, if atheism were considered a religion,that would be much better for us atheists. We would end up having the same rights as other religious people,in that their downright offensive attempts to convert/save us would be offensive to our belief system
lightsatsparkwood21 9 months ago
@lightsatsparkwood21 "You have to make an active pronouncement upon the world."
...uhh, no you don't. All you have to do to be an atheist is to not be a theist, meaning not believe in a god. Babies are all atheist; none of them believe in gods because they're not aware of the concept; it only takes ignorance to be an atheist.
Atheism is not a religion because atheism has no content; all atheism is, really, is not being a theist. Period.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance I'm not trying to start an argument here, just to discuss something I actively study. I suppose you could probably make different divisions between those who really don't give a shit about god or whatever and those who are quite militant in their atheism. I'm in the latter category, as I was indoctrinated as a child . Maybe it could be a similar situation as in passive and active nihilism...just thinking. I'd still say it involves a belief system though. I dunno,what's your stance?
lightsatsparkwood21 9 months ago
@lightsatsparkwood21 My stance is that atheism is not believing in a deity, it's the state of not being a theist. That's it. That's my stance.
What more do you want?
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Ah see, for me, it's all about the active rejection of everything. I suppose we see here that it isn't a universal and there are differing levels. Maybe your stance is the norm and I'm just insane. If I ever write my thesis I'll send you a link, you might enjoy it.
Good video though, nice to see someone spreading the message of NO GOD.
lightsatsparkwood21 9 months ago
@lightsatsparkwood21 Well, tell me...what do you call someone who doesn't believe in god because they'd never heard of the concept, but for the same reason cannot actively reject god either? Are they not an atheist? They're certainly not a theist...so what are they if NOT an atheist?
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance I'd probably say they're removed from the whole argument as both positions are defined (in terms of language and a lot of competing ideology) upon each other. I look at my father and see someone who I would consider as being from a completely neutral position, as he discovered the idea of god relatively late in life, and just ignored it as the contradictory bullshit that it is. This is in comparison to myself, and my prior indoctrination though. hMMM. In short, I really don't know..
lightsatsparkwood21 9 months ago
@lightsatsparkwood21 Except they're not removed from the argument. They're not a theist, and the syllable 'a-' denotes negation, therefore they--as not-theists--are a-theists. Atheists. It's that simple.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Actually, to be honest I have no idea. While we're on the subject though you should have a look at some Sartre, if you haven't already. You'll probably love it. Specifically "existentialism and humanism". Bloody good book that, changed my life and so on....
lightsatsparkwood21 9 months ago
@lightsatsparkwood21 "I stink; therefore, I am." ;)
BionicDance 9 months ago
Atheism is a secular political thing.
MalcumTurnbullMP 9 months ago
Thank you. I pressed 4 over and over.
craeonworkshop 9 months ago
Good message.
TheYouthHeroic 9 months ago
Buddhism is a religion, but it doesn't have a god. i'm sorry, but the basis of the argument is flawed. that being said, atheism is not a religion because it makes no dogmatic assertion about ANYTHING. every thing we positively state is rooted in fact. All an atheist has to do it not believe in god. but that's not a positive statement based on dogma. it's a negative statement until further evidence is acquirable.
awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
@awesomemaster1906 A spirituality is not a religion; buddhism is the former, not the latter. Not really.
BionicDance 9 months ago
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awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
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awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
@BionicDance I talked to a monk about this. The monk told me it was a religion. his words. I was embarrassingly corrected in front of a large group of people for asserting that it wasn't. I'm trusting the monk on this one.
awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
@BionicDance Good luck fighting wikipedia on that one. /wiki/Buddhism
Shyhalu 9 months ago
@BionicDance Is reincarnation not a religious concept ? Is it "a soul" that reincarnates ? Is believing you have a soul religious or spiritual ? (it's certainly a very thin line between religion and these deluded buddhist beliefs. Maybe Buddhism is partly a slight form of madness without some god fantasy but more realistic the whole of nature? Enlighten me short and sweet please. Concerning the soul and afterlife I like my fridges to work : see "Brain Cox Carpool" on YT.
isleofyew1 9 months ago
@isleofyew1 It's spiritual...but religious? I don't think so. Not inherently.
You can believe in reincarnation without the dogma of religion, without the deity, without the ritual, without the buildings, without the clothing, without ANYTHING but the belief.
Is ESP religious? Is astral projection religious? Crystal healing? Hell, belief in UFOs? Where is the dividing line?
I say that if there aren't gods, dogma, churches/temples, priests, or any of that garbage, it's spirituality, not religion
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance (Brain Cox carpoolUK). THX for your answer. The more science the less spirituality has room to go overboard, agreed? I'm new to your channel and you seem 2 have an interesting brain. I never had English lessons so do not be severe on that point. bye 4 now.
isleofyew1 9 months ago
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awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
@awesomemaster1906
I would go so far as to say that not believing in god is a Neutral Statement.
"I do not see any evidence for a god, therefore I remain unconvinced, and do not believe"
I say that is a Neutral stance =^_^=
BlankPicketSign 9 months ago
@BlankPicketSign definitely a possibility. but either way, that wouldn't make atheism a religion, come to think about it, your idea of atheism makes it seem lees religious than mine.
awesomemaster1906 9 months ago
@MrNthDegree I don't agree. I think that's more of a spirituality than a religion. That may be semantics, but still; I see them as distinct from one another.
BionicDance 9 months ago
Religions, all of them have doctrine that they are based on. Their doctrine is not up for debate and does not successfully change without creating a offshoot division. Religious beliefs are based on FAITH because they can not stand up to close scientific scrutiny , with the scientific method. Atheism has no doctrine. It is not based on faith. Atheist don't base their belief that there is no God on dogma or on faith but on the fact that their is no evidence of any God . SS
sailingsolar 9 months ago
yesterday i was told i believe in god because i argue against ones existence. crazy or what.
fourbabies1 9 months ago
But atheism is the lack of a belief in god: not the lack of religion as you seem to be arguing. Why can't you have a atheist religion. To me a religion or religious beliefs is the set of beliefs and practices by which a person or group identify themselves. Atheism as defined in the dictionary, much like theism, is really just a way we group or categorize a broader set of belief which are typically sub divided into specific religions/ religious beliefs.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist Religion without god is really just a philosophy fan club.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Without god your beliefs are based on other things but you do not hold them any less strongly than theist. What differentiates theist and atheist is not how they believe but rather what they believe. Atheist rituals & dogma may be built around logic, reason, the scientific method, evidence, skepticism, naturalism, etc but we utilize and practice them in our live no less than theist study their holy text, prayer and incantations. Is BionicDance merely a philosophy fan club.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist BionicDance is a soft-core porn fan club.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Nice flippant answer, people usually give when they want to hide something they are uncomfortable with.
Reality Check. If you look at the videos you make, you realize the person who makes them is truly passionate about her atheism, reason, and activism.
Face it, your an atheist preacher. Admittedly, you're more the street preacher type...beat them over the head with fire and brimstone (reason and science) until they see the light. You do it quite well and it is badly needed.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist Actually, what I'm passionate about is the fact that I don't wanna be mistreated by religious people anymore.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Most (or all) altruism we humans do is for selfish reasons. But I suspect you really do care.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist Nobody is talking about altruism. I'm talking about SELFISHNESS.
Religious people use their dogma as an excuse to be REALLY CRAPPY to other people, people who disagree with 'em. That should stop.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Are you claiming that there is no altruism in your actions?...that you don't care about your audience? ,,,You're not doing it for your fellow atheists?...that you don't think any of your actions is helping other people?... and it's only selfishness? If you say so but I don't believe it.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist *rolls eyes* Not only am I not talkign about altruism, I'm also not talking about ME. Or my side.
I'm talking about THEM...and the way they behave like assholes toward other people. Do please pay attention to context.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance I think I get the context, I just don't see your intent being as limited as you do. I am man of evidence, and your actions (i.e. the number and content of your videos) does not really agree with your claims of pure self interest. "Smiting the the evil ones" (aka stopping the assholes) may be what got you started or is your primary cause but there are a lot easier ways to do it, if it is only yourself, that you are worried about them being crappy to.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist When did I EVER say it was only me? I do believe I used the term "other people".
Do please pay attention (she said for the SECOND time).
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance (shoulders shrugged) Sorry, I interpreted "Nobody is talking about altruism. I'm talking about SELFISHNESS" to actually mean what you said. The only "other people" in your comments were about the "assholes" you are trying to stop.
I'm trying to pay attention but right now I am really confused as to what you think your motivations for doing BionicDance are. In the last comment, you seem to be backing away from the selfishness of previous ones.
Do please clarify
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist See, the problem is that you have to KEEP READING. After the part about selfishness, I WENT ON TO SAY other things. Relevant things. Things that RELATE to the part about selfishness. If you're only going to read one sentence and then use THAT to formulate your argument, you're Doing It Wrong™.
And frankly, you're not making me want to talk to you particularly, since you seem unwilling to address anything I say IN CONTEXT. You're cherry picking, and that's Not Okay™.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance "Keep reading"...OK, after "I'm talking about SELFISHNESS"; you talked about "their dogma as ... disagree with 'em. That should stop" and then again in your next comment with "and the way they behave like assholes toward other people." I commented both times about them, trying to reconcile them with your SELFISHNESS statement and all you could say is pay attention over and over. I guess I'm just dumb so could you please paste what specific comments you think I am not getting.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist The part abotu their behaving like assholes toward other people DESCRIBES their selfishness.
They want marriage defined only their way, and allowed to only the pairing THEY approve of. Selfish.
They want the choice over abortion to be made only their way. Selfish.
...and so on. There are a LOT of things they want done ONLY the way that religion approves of, THEIR religion; according to their religion, their god gave this world to THEM. Selfish.
Get it yet?
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Thank you. I took the selfishness statement to mean you were saying the reason you were doing Bionic Dance was for selfish reasons as opposed to altruism. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Note: I am quite aware of which THEM you talking about, I do watch many of your videos.
I'm tempted to ask why you seemed to have a problem with suggesting that your actions were altruistic but I only have an hour before I need to go to bed.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist Frankly, I never thought you were talking about me doing this for altruistic reasons. I was never talking about me in the first place, and the subject of the video was not altruism at all; it was a COMPLETE breakdown in communication, frankly.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BionicDance Gotta' love the ambiguity of the English language.
The altruism thing only came about by me trying to use you as an example of an atheist doing more for their beliefs than just a be "philosophy fan club"
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist It wasn't a problem with English...we were talking past each other; we each had our own agenda and the other just plain wasn't on board with it. And neither of us wanted to defer to the other either. THAT'S what really happened.
Anyway, I'm against religion because it encourages willful ignorance, treating imagination as reality, and because it hurts people. I "preach" against it to make it STOP...not because I want to replace it with my own congregation of rationalists.
BionicDance 9 months ago
@BigAtheist
"To me a religion or religious beliefs is the set of beliefs and practices by which a person or group identify themselves"
Political parties are groups with certain beliefs and practices. Are they religions?
How about a football club where they practice the ritual of meeting for a beer after each game. Are they a religion?
How about Greenpeace, where the members believe that the environment is important and should be protected. Are they a religion?
YourXavier 9 months ago
@YourXavier Tell me what fundamentally differentiates Soviet era communist party and Nazi party from most large organized religions. As far as I can tell they all have the same general structure, overall control over the constituencies, scope of influence on their lives, etc. Some people have made a religion out of sports. Many aspects & attributes of most organization resemble some aspect of religion. My definition missed that religion is usually the overarching and dominant set of beliefs.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist
"Tell me what fundamentally differentiates Soviet era communist party and Nazi party from most large organized religions"
But we're not just talking about the communist or nazi parties. Your definition didn't specify a social structure nor totalitarian tendencies. ALL political parties would fit your definition.
I think you've watered down the definition to the point where it's useless. I'd say that to call something a religion, it must include beliefs about the supernatural.
YourXavier 9 months ago
@YourXavier By requiring that religions include supernatural belief, any person who rejects the super natural are by definition not a religion. So naturalism can't be a religion, Deism could, Raëlian can't, Scientology could(?), Buddhism (atheist but still could), agnostic maybe(?). So the belief in the super natural is the defining characteristic of religion. All the aspects like the social infrastructure, impact on peoples lies, shaping of society, source of morality, etc is secondary.
BigAtheist 9 months ago
@BigAtheist
Pretty much, yeah. It sounds like you think this is somehow a problem.
YourXavier 9 months ago
@BigAtheist
Religion is a set of beliefs (Normally of the Supernatural) that can not in any way be questioned. It is an Authoritative Structure of beliefs.
Atheism is not this, Naturalism is not this, Scientology TOTALLY IS!!!! =^_^=
BlankPicketSign 9 months ago
Hey your interesting. cool video atheism sucks.
GrizzlyFist 9 months ago
Funny how the worst thing they can accuse us of is being like them.
tctheunbeliever 9 months ago
sorry, they say atheism is a religion because they just can't think in other terms.
their mind simply cannot grasp another system of thoughts than belief and religion.
just look how a basic christian can't understand an atheist religion like buddhism for example.
atheism HAS to e a religion because it's impossible to be non religious.
atheism is a religion, science is its god and you are one of its prophet.
i personnaly chose to believe in Ceiling Cat because he is so cute, how can't he be true?
zecle 9 months ago
This is an excellent and well reasoned set of points; it will, of course, be ignored...
niriop 9 months ago
@niriop Naturally.
BionicDance 9 months ago
they can't accept that when atheists get vocal about religion, we are talking to THEM and not their invisible friend (but because they talk to an invisible friend, they assume its all about him...)
practicalmagic9 9 months ago
Those Christians who say that atheism is a religion do so for the same reason that they say that Hitler was an atheist or that Darwin recanted on his death bed....
Because it makes us MAD :-(
So... just ignore the whining little Shits and they might go away...
SAHBfan 9 months ago
wow ur so hot
drinkycrow67 9 months ago
I think calling Atheism a religion is more like the religious trying gain more credibility by putting both ideologies on the same playing field. Then they could be considered equally valid and a false dichotomy can be formed. Missing here is an essential tenet of religion: unquestioning faith.
bencamp18 9 months ago
It's funny just how many different stances qualify as atheistic. This is why it bothers me that atheists are being treated as some religion, when even our reasons for being atheist are not necessarily the same, or even always compatible with one another. Just taking a stance upon the god concept does not make one religious.
monkeytube138 9 months ago
I've had the exact same argument with my mom. "Atheism is its own religion," she claims. Ug. So annoying.
I don't consider myself a rap fan either, but I love me some MC Frontalot. And Oby Trice's Wanna Know is pretty hot.
P.S. Love the mention of vegetarians. Used to be one. Tried to convince people meat eating was wrong all the time.
antonahill 9 months ago
No, believing in God is not a prerequisite for being religious, see Buddhism, Hinduism, Janeism, Confucianism and Taoism
ByronAnderson 9 months ago 3
@ByronAnderson Uh... Hindu's believe in multiple Gods.
atheistram 9 months ago
@atheistram not necessarily, Hinduism is diverse. However it is possible to be religious and an atheist.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson Being religious means you believe in a God. So how is it possible to be religious and an athiest??
atheistram 9 months ago
@atheistram Atheism has to do with evidence for a god not for a religion. So a Buddhist can be religiois and an atheist.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson Atheism also has to do with evidence for claims of any religion. Sorry, you lose.
atheistram 9 months ago
@atheistram arteism has to do with is theism not religion otherwise it would be called areligion, so i don't loose anything. Just accept the facts and let people decide for themselves.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ByronAnderson huh??? Are you drunk??
atheistram 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson
I am an Atheist, I don't chant at a specific time of day.
I also believe that nothing is Sacred
Therefore, I am in no way, shape, or form Religious
BlankPicketSign 9 months ago
@BlankPicketSign
You may not, but others do chant and believe in things sacred and still are atheists.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson
Then I do not belong to their Religion. Its that simple.
Not believing in god is not a religion, that is ridiculous. Believing in the Supernatural CAN be a religion.
I Do Not Believe In The Supernatural. I am not religious, those "others" you speak of have nothing to do with me, and to not define me.
I define my beliefs, no one else. =^_^=
BlankPicketSign 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson
I am an Atheist, those atheists have nothing to do with me =^_^=
I am not religious.
BlankPicketSign 9 months ago
@BlankPicketSign i'm not saying you are religious, neither should you deny anybody else who doesn't believe in god(s) to be an atheist
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson Are non of those philosophies?
isleofyew1 9 months ago
@isleofyew1 call them what you like, this doesn’t give atheism more or less meaning.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson Of course it does not say anything about atheism. I asked because I really don't know and call them what you want is silly in that case. I can't call them anything but unexplored by me. THX for your time anyway..
isleofyew1 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson I was pretty sure hindus had gods...Then agian maybe All those Gods they draw up were left behind...
TheKatsuTsuki 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson
Hinduism has deities such as Krishna or Vishnu.
Confucianism is a philosophy, not a religion.
Taoism has deities such as the Jade emperor, Laozi, and the 3 pure ones.
Jainism (it's an i not an e) has deities known as Yaksha and Yakshini.
Buddhism is the only religion without a deity, which is why people argue whether it really is a religion or if it is a philosophy. Please, do your research.
pleenada 9 months ago 2
@pleenada Well, thats your opinion man... and it depends on one’s definitions.
I never said they don’t have deities or can’t be seen as a philosophy, they all have at least a religious element.
I see that religion is more than just deity, it's a cultural system.
ByronAnderson 9 months ago
@ByronAnderson
Sure, I don't disagree with that, but you can not claim they do not have deities when Hinduism, Taoism, and Jainism have recognized deities. Also, Confucianism is not a religion, as somebody who lives in Korea which is a deeply Confucianism-influenced society, it would be like saying that Knights of the Dark Age followed the religion of Chivalry, it's a philosophy and nobody who knows about it treats it as a religion.
pleenada 9 months ago
IQ remark is actually irrelevant, some people are just bound emotionally and act irrationally on the subject on order to keep their faith intact. But the indiviual won't know it unless the idea of atheism takes over. Which in my case I would certainly consider myself naïve, but did I boost my intelligence somehow? No, I simply inhereted a new way of thinking; the scientific method. Otherwise you have to make them hate God to reliquish them of their emotional ties and hopes of an afterlife :|
vatiz93 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Are you mentally deficient in some way I should be made aware of"
Of course they are, that's why they believe in a god!
wormsto 9 months ago
If i ever encounter this argument , I'm linking to this vid.
gaglamesh731 9 months ago
@worldofwhite In all fairness I must say that I "try" to be rational but we humans are not vulcans! I believe my pet rat "loves" me but my only evidence is his behavior.
jimbocidman 9 months ago
@worldofwhite All humans have beliefs. We athiests reject beliefs that require denial of imperical evidence. I "believe" in Australia even though I have never been there!
jimbocidman 9 months ago
This argument again? When will they learn?
Moh5Itachi1 9 months ago
@Moh5Itachi1 By definition, I think they're incapable of it.
BionicDance 9 months ago 8
*lack of belief in god or gods.
Buddhists can be both religious and atheist.
Still, not believing in whatever can't be a religion.
Also: Nice background.
jesokingcryst 9 months ago
@jesokingcryst
Actually you can be religious and an atheist. Unless you define religion as involving some sort of god or gods but then Buddhism would immediately cease to be a religion. I personally define religion as "the set of beliefs and practices regarding the supernatural a specific person has and shares with other people in a defined community". Well, something like that at least.
Quintinohthree 9 months ago
You're pretty awesome :) ~B
BronwenWinterPhoenix 9 months ago
Yes, they are mentally deficient. Hope that helps!
MrStillmans 9 months ago
religion doesn't require god buddist don't believe in god what are they?
i think is buddist i cant remember but i know there is an asian religion that doesn't believe in god just constant rebirth
kainniak1 9 months ago
"Are you mentally deficient in some way I should be made aware of?"
This phrase has now entered my vernacular and I will be using it as my first question on all new dates. :)
analyticalboy 9 months ago
Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color. Atheism is a religion like "talon" is a type of fin.
"We don't believe in God, which is kind of a prerequisite for being religious."
I would contest that. There are a few religions that don't entail a god component, like Buddhism and Wicca.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
Atheism is totally a religion, Just like The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a real religion.
startreking2007 9 months ago
@startreking2007 I once felt the touch of His noodly appendage. It tickled. It's a noodle, after all.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
Damn good points in this video. I tell the religious folks what, the moment a group congregates itself to worship some deity in the name of Atheism, they can call them a religious cult. But they still wouldn't fit the fucking bill of what Atheism is.
pumarunner88 9 months ago
There are atheistic religions. Certain varieties of Buddhism deny the existence of any god. But this is not to say, of course, that therefore atheism as such is a religion.
SisyphusRedeemed 9 months ago
@SisyphusRedeemed Buddhism is more a lifestyle than a religion. Otherwise how would you get christian buddhists? And there are a growing number of them. Budhism is a philosiphy, not a theology.
VinnyMonster1 9 months ago
@VinnyMonster1 There is certainly something to what you say, but I don't think it really flies. There are too many similarities between Buddhism and other 'canonical' religions to simply segregate it. Buddhism is taught in world religions courses and in comparative religion departments, it's referred to as a religion by it's practitioners, it's houses of worship get tax-exempt status from the U.S. government... It's a religion, just not a theistic one.
SisyphusRedeemed 9 months ago
@SisyphusRedeemed Well, I can't disagree with your post. But still, atheism is not a religion. Religions are really speaking the systems put into place to worship a faith. Atheism has no such structure, there are no ceremonies, there are no prayers or holy days, no festivals. And all religions, even Budhism which as you pointed out, I must accept as a religion, has a faith and a belief in supernatural forces which guide and shape the universe. Atheism does not.
VinnyMonster1 9 months ago
@VinnyMonster1 Atheism is a lack of religion, there are no denominations of atheism, because you can't divide nothing. Religions have denominations. Atheism has no congregations, no places of worship, because atheists do not worship anything, but religions have these things.
VinnyMonster1 9 months ago
@VinnyMonster1 Don't take my posts as an attack on you or a rant, I merely wish to clarify what I regard as atheism as opposed to religion or theism.
VinnyMonster1 9 months ago
There are hundreds of definitions of religion, all have problems, and a common one is ->
Some definitions are so broadly written that they include beliefs and areas of study that most people do not regard as religious. David Edward's definition would seem to include cosmology and ecology within his definition of religion -- fields of investigation that most people regard to be a scientific studies and non-religious in nature."
This would be a problem with any definition that includes atheism.
MagnificentSeanT 9 months ago
I always find it amuseing when they insult us by compareing us to themselves.
Oh, it gets even better when they actually try to defend that statement. When they do, they often define 'Religion" as an absolute obsession with something, something that a person thinks about 24/7.
Now, I'm a huge nerd, but even I have enough of a life to think about different things ocasionally.
Their definition of "Religion" not only confirms that I don't have one but just makes me pitty them.
dechha1981 9 months ago
@dechha1981 I've learned to stay away from arguments based on semantics. Apologist have such weak arguments on anything of substance that they resort to wasting time debating definitions.
When people tell me atheism is a religion, I just ask them "How does one go about not having a religion?", and watch them squirm as they realize they've made the word religion completely useless by claiming everybody in the world is religious.
MagnificentSeanT 9 months ago