1919 EDISON vs 1923 VICTOR: Rachmaninoff plays Prelude C# Minor Op 3.2

[merrihew]

Very interesting. Your setup definitely helps with the Edison rumble. Bit of an unfair comparison since the sound of etched label Edisons often deteriorates with age whereas the Victors of that period are usually very quiet. Would be interesting to compare the Victor with a later paper label pressing of the same Edison. Wonderful collection of machines.

[sanfranphono]

@merrihew I know. The fairest comparison would either: Play good copies on an electric turntable, or put an Edison next to a Credenza. But then, how many machines have you seen that can play both records through an orthophonic horn.

Check my other videos, where I play an Edison Disc through a 10-50 Orthophonic.

Cheers

[merrihew]

@sanfranphono By swapping the insert on the back of an orthophonic reproducer with those of an exhibition, No. 2, or No. 4,, you can make all sorts of comparisons on both the orthophonic as well as the earlier Victor machines. You've probably already done that.

[sanfranphono]

@merrihew I have done an Ortho on VIC V, which makes it a super machine.

I may have tried a No 4 on an Ortho, but in general, I don't like and stay away from mica soundboxes.

Best

[cencalphono]

Hundreds of Edison recordings and other early acoustical recordings are available for free download at the UC Santa Barbara music library Cylinder Preservation website. I just wonder what the Edison Diamond Disc would sound like if it were played on a "Labrotory Standard" Edison Diamond Disc phonograph? As far as sound quality, it's hard to beat the sound of a real Diamond Disc phonograph, except for an American Victor Orthophonic console phonograph.

[sanfranphono]

@cencalphono Hello, I have a lab model and even and Edisonic machine, which sounds better than a Lab. I chose this set up because this tiny Gramophone 31b has an exponential horn that is about 50% longer than the lab horn.

From my experience, the Edison Phonograph does not do justice to the sometimes well recorded discs. The best way of listening to them is on a modern electric turntable with RIAA equalization.

[cencalphono]

I wasn't familiar with the Edisonic, but then I saw your video of one. A friend of mine has one of these in his collection and it has an external horn mounted to the tonearm besides the internal one. It has a strange double sound. I think he told me they added the second horn to make it louder for use in a public location, such as a hotel lobby. I liked the sound of the Labratory model better. WestTech Services used to make an electric DD turntable.

[sanfranphono]

@cencalphono No this must be something else - the Edisonic was only two models - the Beethoven in my video and the smaller Schubert. However, there is a photo of a Lab model with a special soundbox to attach a wood horn to it for outdoors play. Wonder if this is the machine. I think they were supposed to play either/ or internal or external. You can play DDs on any modern turntable with a small modification.

Cheers

[cencalphono]

I'll have to check the phono that my friend has again, but it looked very much like yours. The extra horn is metal and teed into the arm. The only other Edison DD players that I have ever seen were the tall uprights and my friend's was the only console DD that I've ever seen, besides yours.

[sanfranphono]

@cencalphono Could be that the soundbox/horn was a separate accessory. I am pretty sure that it was never sold, but George Frow's book on Edison DD machines shows such an arrangement - for outdoors - on an upright. The horn and machine may not belong together, or they are an aftermarket modification.

[2ndviolinist]

Keep "meeting" the same people commenting on recordings I'm interested in. Posting your own recordings on original equipment is totally different than posting someone's transfers. The original players sound different and often better than the transfers. You lose no sonic material to the cleaning up process an you hear what consumers of the time heard. Thanks for your efforts.

[sanfranphono]

It is an interesting approach.

The audio of this video is fairly unchanged (that was the purpose of the video), but on other videos I have done a fair amount of equalization (for example boosting the bass). Should get around to posting some Violin records soon.

Oh, and the funny thing is - regardless whether a good acoustic machine, and old tube machine or a perfect transfer from the turntable - after processing the results sound almost identical, only difference that the TT is quieter

[beeteep60]

do you know if Rachmaninoff's own solo paino stuff is out on a cd?

[sanfranphono]

All the Edison recordings are public domain, so they should be on the web. I am sure if you do a search on Amazon, there should be tons of Rachmaninoff's recordings. He did a large number of recordings for Victor/

[sanfranphono]

Though I doubt that you can completely recover the treble on the 1928 recording. The HMV 31 is very treble happy to start with.

So the question remains: Where do technical limitations of the process end, and where does Rach's interpretation start, and how did the two influence each other.

Cheers,

[sanfranphono]

hello, thanks for your comment.

You can hear clean transfers of the Edison and the 1928 Electric if you look at the movie description to the right side.

If you can make a better transfer, by all means post a video response, I am not set at this time for direct transfers.

My point of this video was to establish a baseline without electronic interference: How do these records sound on an acoustic machine.

[VictrolaCredenza]

Thanx for posting very analytical clip. I agree with you that Victor acoustic sounds convincing enough, and the electrical account does not prove 5-year technical progress. Perhaps the results can be different if played electrically (and equalized properly). Please go ahead.

[pianopera]

Very informative and artistic video, thanks for sharing!