5 of 7: Using the Socratic Method with Christian Proselytizers (Christianity vs. foreign faiths)

[shieldsff]

Your entire premise is so flawed friend. You have no basis for assuming that the Bible ought to read as a science text. It offers literary references designed to be commonly understood by the people of that and subsequent periodl. The passages you cite lack proper context, cross reference and inference. You really should try studying the full text with a trained minister/rabbi

[ToddAllenGates]

1 of 4:

> You have no basis for assuming that the Bible ought to read as a science text. It offers literary references designed to be commonly understood by the people of that and subsequent period.

I acknowledge that human ignorance isn't the only possible explanation for the Bible's lack of scientific knowledge: that maybe a Beyond-Brilliant Creator of the Universe really did inspire the Bible

[ToddAllenGates]

2 of 4:

---and the Creator of course knew scientific details like the fact that He designed the earth to turn on its axis---but excluded those details, and instead inspired passages that suggested that the sun orbits a stationary earth only because figurative language of this sort enhanced communication with the ancients.

[ToddAllenGates]

3 of 4:

Yet what about the ancient Greek religious explanation that the sun was being pulled across the sky by a sun god? That too sounds like human ignorance: but if your argument is valid, then maybe Zeus was just speaking metaphorically.

What about the ancient Viking belief that lightening is flung by the angry god Thor? Human ignorance, or Divine Metaphor?

[ToddAllenGates]

4 of 4:

The Christian apologist has it that the Bible's scientific inaccuracies are God's metaphors, while non-Christian scientific inaccuracies are based on human ignorance. The more plausible explanation to me is that ALL ancient texts reflect ancient knowledge because ancient humans were the sole authors of each and every one.

[smashbeans]

i love a good source of information

[AutodidacticPhd]

I heard of another interesting method using the events surrounding the taking of the promised land.

Retell the story, only when you mention the holy land, call it China, and when you mention God, call him Tien, etc... then ask the person if this is just behavior guided by a wise god or just a primitive, man made story.

Also, its a good way to figure out the level of knowledge a person actually has about their own religion...

[ToddGates]

> Retell the story, only when you mention the holy land, call it China, and when you mention God, call him Tien, etc... then ask the person if this is just behavior guided by a wise god or just a primitive, man made story.

An excellent idea!

[AutodidacticPhd]

That's what I thought when I first heard it... I'm not totally sure, but I think I saw this method described in a YouTube video of a lecture given by Bart Ehrman regarding his book,

"Misquoting Jesus: Scribes Who Altered Scripture and Readers Who May Never Know". If its still up I'd highly recommend it.

[ToddGates]

> If it's still up I'd highly recommend it.

Thanks—I'll check it out!

[vdmerwe]

It's wonderful to see such an intelligent person on YouTube, and a truly socratic philosopher.

You represent a far higher intellectual plane than most others in the skeptic community.

[ToddGates]

> It's wonderful to see such an intelligent person on YouTube, and a truly Socratic philosopher.

TOO kind, but thanks!

[newexperiment]

This is pretty much what I went through In my own mind when i was about 12 years old and was learning about ancient mythology in school. I recall it being rather scary to know that I could figure out something so simple, yet none of my "teachers" could. I felt alone.

[ToddAllenGates]

> I recall it being rather scary to know that I could figure out something so simple, yet none of my "teachers" could.

That's something that never ceases to amaze me!

> I felt alone.

I can imagine that being very scary as a child—I hope today's astute 12-year-olds find comfort in YouTube's skeptic/atheist community!

[beardfreak1969]

... as a side note - there are "millions" of Bible based believers on the planet who view Jesus as a special creation & "not" God Almighty - so they do not believe that God sacrificed himself to himself.

Just a thought.

[ToddAllenGates]

> there are "millions" of Bible based believers on the planet who view Jesus as a special creation & "not" God Almighty

True---I believe that would include Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists, and others too. I feel its safe to safe that "mainstream" Christianity has it the Jesus = God, but perhaps I should have mentioned rival perspectives too.

One book; so many interpretations!

[beardfreak1969]

Indeed - I used to be a practising JW ;-)

[CognosSquare]

Its so hard to make christians make actual claims that can be debunked. They rather move in grayer areas it seems.

I think this methodology creates a great "mental chess".

1. Make a bold setup.

2. Opponent attacks perceived weaknesses. Has to make actual claims. Becomes vulnerable.

3. Claims debunked. Logic vs Faith: 1-0

[gonyea12]

That's it! I'm worshiping Osiris from now on, he's a REAL God.

Not like that epic pussy Yahweh!

[ToddAllenGates]

> That's it! I'm worshiping Osiris from now on, he's a REAL God. Not like that epic pussy Yahweh!

I'm partial to the Invisible Pink Unicorn -- She's the best cook.

[freethinker3161]

god your so impresive and i aplaud your efforts and i will make it to the end\

[ToddAllenGates]

> god you're so impresive and i aplaud your efforts and i will make it to the end

TOO kind but thank you!