The Possibility of Hope - Children of Men Extra (2/3)

[codkiller100]

Economical model: Keynesians economics.

[Technicolor909]

2:02 BANKSEY

[julialeekaufman]

@Technicolor909 *Banksy*

[GoingGoingGalt]

Bullshit. If any system forces people to think rationally, its Capitalism.

[gblured]

@GoingGoingGalt

and how exactly would that be?

[GoingGoingGalt]

@gblured A racist will still hire a qualified Black person because going to the second best option will be expensive to the company. A protectionist will still outsource because he has to achieve as many advantages over his competitors as he can to stay in business. A woman who thinks a discount store is haunted will seriously question her conclusions when she finds her budget to be tight. In other words, people are rational because it is costly to be wrong.

[joshmolina3]

@GoingGoingGalt historically racist havent hired black people. Thats part of the reason policies like Equal Oportunity are instated.

And all of the examples you gave are pretty small scale, the game changes radically when you deal with macro economics and globalization

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 If that's so, then why did the South African government institute those laws during the times of apartheid? Oh, so that the employer could simply refuse to hire a black person without paying a price for it.

[joshmolina3]

@GoingGoingGalt hmm, you pose an interesting point but my argument still stands when it comes to large scale economics. Just think about the recent economic meltdown in america. Im not gonna list all the crap that investors and the government did, you can google. But i will say it wasnt rational behaviour and that there was a tremendous lack of foresight on part of the government and investors. I recently watched a nova doc on how irrational our economy really is. Fascinating stuff.

[joshmolina3]

@joshmolina3 even global warming is a good example. How rational is it to keep using fossil fuels when investing in clean energy provides long term job growth and its good for the enviroment. Yet the average consumer still doesnt take this issue seriously. Im not exactly arguing for the opposite of capitalism either, im just saying that our system isnt as rational as people think it is.

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 Of course, because as we all know, the stuff we find on Google is all true. I would suggest you look up a channel called LibertyPen. It has videos including several economists talking about what caused the economic disaster. Plus, keep in mind that you have to have a clear distinction between what "small scale is" as opposed to "large scale"

[joshmolina3]

@GoingGoingGalt of course i know that not everything on google is true. I trust you would try and look for sources with some amount of credibility. Ive read many articles in newspapers, time magazine, and heard plenty more from news sources (tv and radio) about the economic meltdown.Plus there was Novas wonderfull documentary on the subject. I just used google as an example because you can search for stuff from those credible sources.

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 I was being a little facetious, but still, I would recommend you take a look at the work done by Walter Williams, Bryan Caplan, Peter Schiff, and Tom Woods regarding the recession

[joshmolina3]

@GoingGoingGalt and i'll look into that channel you sent me, but regardless i think the irrationality of our system can be exemplified in plenty of other ways. Here is a good one. People continue to shop at stores that sell GMO foods. Why? because shopping at a trader joes for organic food is more expensive. Simple rational right but it doesnt account for the long term investment of good health and fewer med bills. I think people are rational to the extent of immediate consequences.

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 Regarding organic food, I will have to emphasize that the jury is still out. There is no conclusive evidence that shows organic food is superior in health than GMO food. What we can conclude, however, is that if all food were organically produced, there would be a lot less of it. This means that mass starvation would be inevitable, and people as a whole would be poorer since more of their paycheck would go to food, of which there is less. In that respect, GMO food is better

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 Now, as to global warming, while it is unmistakably true that the Earth is warming, two unproven premises are slipped in, even though neither have been proven adequately. The first is that global warming is completely our fault (evidence suggests we are accelerating the process, but GW would happen without us), the second is that global warming would be an unequivocal disaster (even though evidence does not show a totally good or bad scenario)

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 I can agree that oil being a finite resource is a debatable issue, but keep in mind three things. First, all resources, at least those relevant to economics (ie the study of allocation of FINITE resources), are by definition, finite. Second, there is a lot more hydrocarbons than many media sources imply (the tar sands of Alberta alone can provide fuel for the entire world for over a century). Third, as oil becomes more scarce and thus more expensive...

[GoingGoingGalt]

@joshmolina3 ...other sources of energy will become less relatively expensive, and therefore more appealing for investment

[GoingGoingGalt]

@boleroinferno Again, all resources are finite in one respect or another. But its not enough to make that claim. The entire market system is in fact justified by the fact that resources are finite.

And yet, if any of what you said was true, you would tell me just where you get such precise figures from. Don't say "common sense". You mention something as asinine as that, and you've just lost by default.

[boleroinferno]

@joshmolina3 You are totally right on all these issues. Don't let GoingGalt's use of Bill-O'Reilley tactics get you down.

He can shout you down or claim to hold a monopoly on rational thinking, even spread around false skepticism (which is really simple ignorance), but in the end it's the people who understand and are willing to act to better the world that make the difference.