the psalms are songs and poetry. the point is against the stand of God's perfect righteousness and goodness, evil cannot stand. but in a literal sense we are all evildoers, we are all sinners, therefore, none of us could stand in the presence of God. Therefore, the message of Christ, that all have sinned, all have fallen short of the glory of God and so we rely on the love and mercy of God to redeem us.
Thats right, thats exactly right. God hates sin, therefore the only way for Him to love us like he loves his righteousness is by being deemed righteous. He cant/wont love anything that isnt perfect. And I dont know if you can tell, but there are only two options in the Bible to me, love and hate.
nice video, thanks for uploading. You should re-type the title, "Go doesn't love everybody the same way" Maybe I'm wrong on that.. but that's word-for-word with what Piper says in the first few seconds
No offsense to John Pipper, but...just cuz non-christian has a difference stance with Jesus don't mean he/she is loved less.
Seriously has Pipper not read the Gospels? Also anyone else notice how he has to RAISE his voice so much, like he's mad..not even a little smile... and actually now that I notice Pipper raises his voice often...TURN OFF UR CAP LOCKS, Piper.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA BritneyAddictedEVA, I was not talking about being saved, I was just talking in general this, "just cuz non-christian has a difference stance with Jesus don't mean he/she is loved less," quote from my comment. Yeah Jesus takes a VERY different role with a christian vs a non christian, but still Jesus love for the non-christian is just as strong, just that He's trying to bring the person to reprentence.
Jesus did not will for Judas to go to hell. He knew that he was going to hell but He did not predestine him to go to hell by not praying for him. Every man is given a free will. Judas could have repented after he betrayed Jesus, but he didn't. Peter repented and came back. For God to, "Love someone less" would imply that God's love is not infinite, but we know God is infinite and God is love. (1John 4:8)
If Jesus didn't love Judas the same way, what is that kind of love that make Judas go to Hell? In other words, did Jesus love Judas or not at all? Here the problem is that John Piper thinks that Jesus didn't love the same way God the Father did in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world", be carefull!, it's NOT a FRACTION of the world!!!
I think what he is saying is that God loves everyone but his love for his children is more of an affectionate love(because of the relationship there) where as his love for all the other people is an accepting love like we are commanded to have for people we dont even know.
@MrD2dude to your Scripture references, let's look at them in context through exposition. Your first two references came from Paul talking about what God wants, not the reality of His Sovereign choice. God wants all people to be saved but it doesn't mean all will be saved. If you recall when Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane He pleaded with the Father, "may this cup be taken from me[Jesus]". (Matthew 26:39) Jesus didn't WANT to go to the cross, but He DID for the glory of His Father and the
Intercession is the job of the Holy Spirit. Jesus loves everyone the same. He loves when a person comes to the Lord. He said he would leave 99 sheep that follow him to go get the 1 that lost. The reason Jesus prayed about his disciples is to ask the Father to give them strength to carry out his will and preach the gospel. The attacks of the Devil on the righteous are much more frequent than to those he not need to attack. This person is taking words out of context.
Q. Do muslims believe in Jesus Christ ? A. Believing in Jesus and all other prophets of God is a fundamental part of muslim faith. Muslims believe that Jesus is the son of Virgin Mary, and he had no father. God created Jesus and he is a prophet IE saying he is god. Or the son of god is a major sin in Islam
No no no no no.... What are you saying?!? God LOVES all of is the exact same way. Just because you come to know Him doesn't mean He loves you less... Just because you don't doesn't mean he loves you more or less. He loves us all equal. But. What I think he was trying to say but failed... I that God has a different LONGING for those who do not yet know Him. He loves us all the same.
@chuck4norris4444 "No no no no no.... What are you saying?!? God LOVES all of is the exact same way."
God takes care of all people as their Creator (common grace), but loves as Father only the elect, for whom alone Jesus died (special grace). The rest's sins aren't forgiven. God is their Creator but not their Father. They're his unrepentant enemies. He hates them, and will incarcerate them in hell forever.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." God loves all men. Those who receive Christ receive this love, those who don't reject it. It's there all the same.
As Creator He takes care of all, but as Father loves only the elect, those He chose before the foundation of the earth. Only they go to heaven, because only for them did Jesus die, not for the reprobate.
"While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
The word "us" doesn't refer to everyone ever born, but only to the elect, like Abel, David, Peter etc. It doesn't refer to reprobates like Cain, Saul, Judas etc.
@aveyowyns I'm so sorry - when you told me about your hateful god, I just naturally assumed he was angry - which would mean that he was taken by surprise. Hate and anger go together in humans - that was what made me assume that god was a human invention. Hope I haven't offended you.
jesus doesn't love anybody, because, if he ever existed, he's a dead dude - long turned to dust. The molecules that made him have been transformed into other forms and await their return to the stars which made them in the beginning.
If you believe that you can be loved by something in the spooky spirit world then you are desperate.
There is no soul, no afterlife. no supernatural, nor any reason to think there is anything after death.
@StrumstickJoe actually what intellectual arguments do you have for your position.You cant prove there is no afterlife,therefore u cant be 100% sure there is no afterlife,as that is something that is outside the realm of Human science.U just cant use worldly stuff to try to prove something not out of this world.And the bast part is that Jesus saves if u have faith alone in him for eternal life.U just need to believe in Christ to save you and he will.U dont have to do anything at all.ITs free.
@StrumstickJoe not at all,im just telling it to you...you atheist usually like to calculate..anyway why do u waste your life on Christian Videos if u dont believe...seems pathetic to me.
@MrUrosSrb If I can help somebody as I pass along, then nothing is a waste of time.
Religion is demeaning to the human race, with its primitive belief in a creator and "lord" to whom you must grovel; and its assumption of guilt to control the mind of the vulnerable by calling it a soul and threatening it with eternity.You should beware the irrational, however seductive. Disbelieve the 'transcendent' and people who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself.
@MrUrosSrb Yes, I can tell you. I don't believe your myth, or any of the others', (They are mostly from the same confused stories of the primitives anyway)
I'll send you a poem (it needs a bit of work, I know, but it sentiment is in the right place) Look out for it.
@StrumstickJoe Im sure you are smart enough to accept the free gift,even if it werent true(which isnt the case),you wouldnt have nothing to lose,and if it is true u got a lot to gain.Please be smart.
"Is god able to prevent war, crime, torture, pain and natural disasters but not willing? Then he is malevolent."
War and crime is the result of the hardening of sinful man's hearts. It is God's nature to give sinful man over to the desires of their heart (which is to promote self and demote others, whichever form that takes) because those desires are death. It is His judgment upon man, same with natural disasters. As for pain, apart from a religious standpoint, to associate...
@StrumstickJoe ...pain with negativity, it is the sign of a feeble and weak mind. Our culture has propagated the idea that pain is terrible, it is evil, and that it is bad to experience. Rather, pain is an indicator of something being wrong. In the case of physical pain, it reveals to us our physical limits. Emotional pain reveals to us how we feel and respond. Either type of pain puts us through a season of tribulation and it tests us to steadily improve us and make us better as human beings...
@StrumstickJoe So is God malevolent? No. A more appropriate description to use in this case is to say that God is a righteous and just God. Yeah, He is as terrifying and terrible as He is good and loving, but that does not make Him evil. To attribute evil to God in light of these characteristics would be similar to attributing evil to an upright judge who punishes criminals. To say that the upright judge has no love in his heart because he punishes criminals is absurd.
@StrumstickJoe Assuming you are an atheist, and that the fundamental belief of atheism is to abide in such ideas that are founded by and established in logic, you've contradicted such belief by immediately resorting to satire. I responded to converse, not to exchange arrogant comments of pride that demean the intellectual capacity of another. I'll continue to exchange with you if you refrain from satire and just keep it civil...
@StrumstickJoe Btw, for informational purposes, I do believe you would enjoy Hell. Not saying that I would send you there myself or that I would take pleasure in you going there. Rather, the idea that you want nothing to do with a Christian God makes Hell an ideal place for you. You won't have to really put up with Him there, and you will be free to pursue whatever you would wish. I can guarantee that you'd never reach those pursuits though. However He still rules in Hell, so He'd still be there
@SureAndSteadfast The teachings of christianity: from vicarious redemption, to the love of enemies, to the urging that no thought for the morrow must be taken, no thrift, no care - but rather hate - for friends and family, to the apocalyptic wish for humanity’s end… these are immoral as well as utterly illogical teachings.
Please try to understand that I don't believe them because they are unbelievable.
In the context of there being no God in our universe and existence, the presented argument is very understandable and I would agree with such if I was fully convinced of the absence of a God. All of those teachings that you had mentioned, they are most certainly immoral and illogical when mankind is the centerpiece of everything. However, our opinion of those teachings should shift when the centerpiece is not us, but the Christian God, and it does make sense, and here's why...
@StrumstickJoe ...Starting with vicarious redemption: it is a seeming contradiction in Scripture itself. Proverbs 17:15 states "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the LORD." The redemption proposed from the Bible is that God justifies wicked men, which is what the Bible calls us, correct? So why isn't God an abomination in His own eyes? We are free to accuse Him based on Scripture itself! However, Romans 3:26 states "It was to show...
@StrumstickJoe ...His righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." God then cannot be judged as an abomination by His own standard because He executed justice and damned Christ upon the cross, therefore legal justification is made available to sinful man. We know there is evil in the world, we see it everyday. It is the nature of man to be this way. So then is it evil on God's behalf that we are legally justified while still...
@StrumstickJoe ...being evil in nature? It is our natural inclination to think that if you don't punish a criminal, they will go back to recommit the crime. The difference here is that those who God justifies, He changes their nature. As for the love of enemies, this is a commandment to those who God justifies, it is not expected of all men. Why? Because it is following the example of God, wherein He gave up Christ for us while we were His enemies, hating and wanting nothing to do with Him...
@StrumstickJoe ...Those that God justifies are expected to love their enemies because God did so for them while they were His enemies. If the justified do not forgive the trespasses of others, then there is no forgiveness left for them from God. So again, that is not a commandment universal to ALL men, it is a commandment to those whom God has justified. I know, I made this really long, but as initially stated, all this comes with the premise of God's existence. If not, we won't go any further.
@SureAndSteadfast Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
There seems to be a terrible misunderstanding on the part of a great many people to the effect that when you cease to believe you may cease to behave.
@StrumstickJoe Not sure what you are trying to achieve with those quotes. I agree with them wholeheartedly, but I'm not seeing where you're trying to go with all of it
@SureAndSteadfast I can pay a man's debts, if I want to help him. I can even serve his time.
But I can't forgive him for something he has done to another human! That would be mad and immoral. To say, "I forgive you for treading on that man's toes" is absurd, vicarious, stupid. Who am I to ignore the victim's broken toe, and give you forgiveness in spite of it?
If anybody offers to forgive you in that manner, distrust him; tell him he is evil and immoral.
@MrUrosSrb Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Jesus DOES love everybody the same, not their sin. The bible even says, "38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[b] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." ~ Romans 8:38-39 and "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
@PhilosAphylas said "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
First off, a true sacrifice for the debt we are supposed to owe would be for your god's son to take our punishment and spend eternity in hell, not a couple of days in a cave.
Second, I disagree that men are "sinners" and need redemption. You have failed to provide any evidence for that, you just keep saying it is true. Your assertions are pretty weak.
If God does not love everybody, for me to show love to everyone and try to follow peace with everyone would be an ungodly charateristic, for you would not be immitating God. It would mean that its right for us to hate some people.
This is more "Two Loves of God" theological nonsense that is so commonly peddled by Piper, MacArthur and their Neo-Calvinist disciples. If God does not have SAVING love for everybody then there is no well-meant offer (sincere offer) of salvation to all of humanity based on the love of God. The fact is - God does not love everybody (Rom 9:13, Ps 5:5, Ps 11:5) People hate that truth because they prefer to worship Santa Claus rather than the God of scripture.
All that matters in the end, is can you accept the fire within you...... is your attachments to great to hold onto the fire..... or will your sin quench out the flames.
@Fenrirsdoom noooo u got it wrong dear.......just receive HIM now.....HE loves u....if HE dint u wld have been dead by now....HIS the giver of life....just accept HIM now as ur LORD and personal Savior now...HIS ALWAYS WITH YOU....just say JESUS i believe u died for my sins i receive u in my heart now...then get a bible and find a good church ok...u will be amazed how your life will turn out...HIS FULL OF GOODNESS MERCY LOVE AND GOOD GIFTS which HE gives at all times. all the best dearest friend
@amaka61 Ok number one I have read the Bible number 2 have you got any evidence for the existence of this God of yours? Any evidence to back up any of your claims? The things you say are not self evident and just because you say them doesn't mean you're right
@Fenrirsdoom You denying them doesn't make them untrue. You wish proof. You and I and 7 billion other sentient humans on this planet. A planet in a system of 9 planets and this is the only one that bears life. Against all mathematical odds this planet has life on it. Even against more astronomical odds actually has sentient life on it. You still demand people to connect the dots you refuse to connect yourself.
@BrotherMichael1000 Of all the planetary bodies in the Solar System, probes have landed on only one, Mars, with instruments designed specifically for searching for life as we know it. Even with that in mind, a sample size of 8 planets (and the dwarf planet Pluto), hardly gives you enough information to set odds for the chances of life occurring elsewhere. Rejecting unsupported claims is not the same as denying “god”. The rational question still remains; where is your falsifiable evidence?
@BrotherMichael1000 no no no you have to prove what you're claiming is true. Its just a little something called the burden of proof. Otherwise I could claim that there is a pink invisible, ethereal unicorn standing in front of you. And you would have to disprove it. Can you disprove that? Of course not but that is what you are doing
@Fenrirsdoom No that isn't what I'm doing. I'm pointing out facts you are pointing out pink unicorns. You have been given arguments you merely ignore them and bring up this tripe. I then turn the tables on you since you entered an affirmative stance that God doesn't exist and you attempted to back pedal to the agnostic position. Where is your proof that our position is untrue? You either answer or shut up.
@BrotherMichael1000 "No that isn't what I'm doing. I'm pointing out facts you are pointing out pink unicorns. You have been given arguments you merely ignore them and bring up this tripe."
I'm seeing no facts to justify that you could set odds for the chances life occurring anywhere. How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively. I'm seeing no facts if you shift the burden of falsifiable evidence to those whom you ask to believe your claims.
@DEdgeOfReason How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively to prove that life is a common occurrence? How many planets have life on them? Of those with life on them how many of them have sentient life on them?
@BrotherMichael1000 "How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively to prove that life is a common occurrence? How many planets have life on them? Of those with life on them how many of them have sentient life on them? "
In other words you have no facts, only beliefs.And you hide your lack of supporting evidence for your "god" in this rather trite evasiveness. Then in further comments on this thread, you regurgitate stale old Jesus Myth all over poor Fenrirsdoom. NOT convincing.
@BrotherMichael1000 My view is as an agnostic atheist. I am not trying to disprove the existence of God I'm rejecting claims that you make i.e God is real and he is the Christian God. My point is perfectly valid I just changed God into a unicorn. You claim God is real it is not me who has to disprove you but you who have to attempt to prove your claim to expect otherwise suggests a feeble mindedness brought on by thousands of years of religious arrogance to believe somehow you are above this.
@Fenrirsdoom Then you suffer from the same feeble mindedness as you seem to be devoid of any knowledge as to your position. There is no such thing as agnostic atheist. atheism Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. agnosticism The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist Pick one.
@BrotherMichael1000 No atheists do not see any evidence for the existence of God a gnostic atheist believes there is absolutely no possibility that there is a God which I would agree is arrogant and foolish but an agnostic atheist says there probably is no God but does not deny that there is a possibility
@Fenrirsdoom Doesn't matter what you are. You demand others to prove to you the truth. We give you the truth and you spit on it. Then you like many religious people hide behind labels. Labels wont save you.
@BrotherMichael1000 How can i know its the truth if you can't give evidence for it? Would you believe me if I claimed I was abducted by aliens? Or would you want ot investigate it first? Haha I love it you can't defend your beliefs so you bring out the fire and brimstone..... classic
@Fenrirsdoom I've given you all the proof you will get in this world. I care not if you find my responses humorous. The truth is Jesus Christ was crucified, buried, and on the third day rose from the grave. These are historical facts. You either believe he is the Son of God or don't. Without Christ as your savior you will be judged according to your works. Your works are woefully inadequate as are all of man's works. You think your the first to mock the Faith?
@BrotherMichael1000 Yeah what evidence do you have for that claim? The Bible? Starting on the threats because you can't support your own arguments? This is the moment I know I have won the discussion
@Fenrirsdoom You think you've won something? Friend this is your eternal destiny. The moment you must choose the broad road or the narrow road. Pick one and I sincerely hope you pick the right road. There is only one way and that is Christ Jesus. I doubt sincerely that your pride will comfort you much in the here after.
@BrotherMichael1000 Devoid of a reasoned argument to Fenrirsdoom, you spout yet another self-righteous bombast.Your “here after” and “eternal destiny” is no more valid than Elysium and Hades unless you present real evidence of such. Also your Jesus is no more real or historical than King Arthur.Start with the contradictions of his birth place, the location of his great Sermon on the Mount, and conflicting stories in the Gospels about who was at his tomb when he arose; all indicate rehashed myth.
@BrotherMichael1000 organised religion ,churches,professional christians, are the natural result of the genisis of christianity, and it will always be so. but through all the man made confusion[council of nicea to start with] the kernal of truth which jesus left us with can never be exstinquished. because spiritual revelations ecspecialy through jesus,are a fact because the truth of our humanity has to be discovered by every man in his time, lets get rid of out dated doctrine.
@lordofthecoils Ah You mean throw out the Holy Bible. No thanks go back to your emergent heretical Church and enjoy the koolaid they are feeding you. Tell Rob Bell I'm a bible believing Christian thank you very much.
@BrotherMichael1000 said "Tell Rob Bell I'm a bible believing Christian thank you very much."
Have you read the thing? That is not a good thing to say. Do you believe the whole thing, or just the parts that you like? Do you beat your wife? Do you have slaves? Does your whole family including your children (but not your wife) and any visitors to your house and your pets and livestock do no work in any way on the sabbath? What are you saying?
@joestfrancois I follow Jesus Christ who fulfilled the law. I have no wife but if I did I would love her as Christ loves the Church. You wish to say because man is to be in leadership of his wife and she to submit to him that is only insofar as he is biblical and following the full truth of scripture. He is to be the priest of his household and be obedient to Christ and love his wife even as his own flesh. Further Mark 2:27-28 and Mark 3:2 He is our Sabbath.
Uh huh. You miss my point completely. You make up what you want to believe to suit the lifestyle that you want to lead, for whatever reason. There are many things that "followers" of Jesus Christ ignore or explain away. The slavery in the New Testament is a good example. It is there, it is undeniable, but explainerd away because superstitious people make up what they want to believe. Superstition sucks, accept reality.
@joestfrancois I do not explain away anything. A slave who has Jesus Christ is richer than any wealthy man alive for he has life and more than life. It is not ignored and certainly isn't explained away. We are buffeted and treated cruelly on every hand. We are marginalized and hated for the testimony we hold. We do not ignore it but return evil with good, and hate with love. This is the reality as is pride of life. He that loves this present world has his reward already.
@BrotherMichael1000 "We are marginalized and hated for the testimony we hold."
LOL, ha ha. whatever. Try coming out to your co-workers as an atheist, Makes saying "Jesus is Lord" sound like saying "Hi" in the morning. You superstitous types are in the majority in the US but still act as if you are not. Funny how you don't deny slavery though. So would you own a slave if the secular law did not prohibit it? In the OT you could have sex with a slave. In the NT as well or not?
@joestfrancois Many profess Christ but how many believe in and trust him enough to make him lord of their lives? If your an atheist I would still love you. Christ died for you as well as me. I wouldn't own anyone but I would buy one out of slavery and free them. I wouldn't own anyone. Though it is interesting that you bring up if the law didn't prohibit slavery. Yet the same law turns a persons substance over to medical bill collectors even if they cannot afford to pay?
You are saying you yourself would not own people, but can you find fault in someone who did own people? According to your bible there is no "sin" in that.
Your bible is not a book that I think worthy of being a reference for human behaviour in the 21st century. It makes no difference though. people choose what they want to believe as it suits them for whatever reason.
@joestfrancois Hey, I did not mean to put words in your mouth. As I read it, your bible condones owning slaves. Would you agree that it is not a "sin" to own a slave according to your bible?
My point is the same. Superstitious people make up what they choose to believe.
@joestfrancois It is a sin to own another. For if one doesn't wish to be a slave how can he in good conscience own another? Would that not be hypocrisy? For the Lord did declare do unto others as you would have them do unto you. ref Matt 7:12; Luke 6:31; Mark 12:31; James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" Is enslaving another loving your neighbor as you love yourself would one enslave themselves?
@BrotherMichael1000 "It is a sin to own another. For if one doesn't wish to be a slave how can he in good conscience own another?"
Oh no, you are adding to what is written in yor bible. It does not say it is a sin to own another person. In 1 Timothy 6:1-3 it even talks about being the slave of a believer. That your morals are better than your bible is commendable, but not required to get into your heaven.
@joestfrancois Friend I've given you scripture confirming what I have said. It is incumbent on you to read said scriptures. I haven't added to scripture at all. If I would not want to be a slave it is sin to put on another what I wouldn't put on myself. That would be pride and arrogance. No my morals are not above scripture. The only righteousness I have is in Jesus Christ. Of myself it would be mere filthy rags.
@BrotherMichael1000 said "If I would not want to be a slave it is sin to put on another what I wouldn't put on myself."
Mike, you seem like a nice guy. I am sorry you are caught up in superstition. I think what we are seeing here is what I feel is a great indicator of everybody choosing what they want to believe. You bible says otherwise. From where I am standing it is obvious that it is all made up, you are sort just confirming it. I like your sincerity though.
@joestfrancois Friend what I gave you is what some call the Golden rule. It is the ultimate rule when you study the core of the Gospel. Ultimately the reason man is so depraved and wicked is they put on others what they wouldn't put on themselves. They use others to attain their own desires with total disregard for their neighbors. That isn't made up it's just the truth.
@BrotherMichael1000 said "Friend what I gave you is what some call the Golden rule."
Yes and what I gave you were passages from your bible that showed that you can believe in Jesus Christ and own slaves and still go to your heaven. It's made up Michael and none of it has basis in fact, and you are trying to insert things that are not there. Again, you arguments support my contention that every believer picks what they want to believe. Accept reality, please.
@joestfrancois I I have accepted reality. You on the other hand are ignorant of one important fact. You should re read 1 Timothy 6:1-3 Our conduct as Christians is to Honor God no matter our circumstances. Whether we are free or slave, rich or poor. To walk in the love of God. This isn't picking and choosing. Men even when saved battle their flesh but a honest Christian wouldn't force on another what they wouldn't desire for themselves. Matthew 23:24 Consider what you do.
All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved.
Teach and preach these principles. If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth,
I find the wording pretty clear. It also says if you disagree you are conceited and understand nothing. 1 Timothy 6:1-5
Michael, you seem like a good guy and sincere, but what you are doing is picking the part of the superstition that you want to believe. All superstitious people do that. Sorry. you all make it up. If you enjoy the gathering of the brethren that is good. But look the next time you go, does everybody believe exactly what you do?
@joestfrancois Everyone believes exactly what I believe where I go. We haven't made this up. You are in complete error and the words you quoted in your first follow post "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing;" He was talking to you. I do hope you have a very long life.
@joestfrancois Not that I want to get in the middle of this but, We are all slaves to whatever we serve. Be it God,& doing his will.Or our flesh,& fullfilling its desires.l would rather be a slave to Jesus Christ.And be free from being a slave to sin(the works of the flesh) unto eternal life. Than be a slave to my own lusts(fornication,Adultry,greed,lying,ect.) unto eternal damnation.For the wages of sin is death.But the gift of God is eternal life. And that life is in his son.
@HumbleHeartMinistry You are not getting in the middle of anything. When faced with passages from their bible, superstitious claim foul or clam up. This debate was likely over.
You said though "For the wages of sin is death.But the gift of God is eternal life. And that life is in his son."
You can believe that if you want to. There is nothing that indicates that is true. You be a slave to a made up entity. You make up what you believe anyway.
@joestfrancois The proof is in the Bible, and in the 100% accuracy of historical and prophetic events. Jesus Christ is real, and He is who He claimed to be. The basis on which you deny that is more baseless than embracing that.
@killerproctologist88 said "The proof is in the Bible, and in the 100% accuracy of historical and prophetic events. "
The short answer to this is no. You have made a claim here. I cannot falsify your claim. I also cannot falsify claims made by Muslims or Jews or Pastafarians. Your book cannot verify itself, that is not how it works. Tell me, from your book, how did Judas called Iscariot die?
@joestfrancois Pastafarians? Haha is that a joke or is that an actual religion? The Bible is verified by independent sources. The Dead Sea scrolls, and the archaeological evidence (for many years the Bible was the only ancient text to mention the Hittites you can look that up) are just 2 examples. Judas Iscariot committed suicide.
Not really. The text of your bible is, that is true. But your bible is not an eyewitness account of the events of the life of Jesus. There is very little that can be verified by extra-biblical accounts and nothing at all of a supernatural nature. Nice try.
Judas hung himself in Matthew. In acts he fell down and his guts gushed out. It is a contradiction, look it up.
@joestfrancois The independent sources is the proof in its' 100% historical and archaeological accuracy. Even secular atheists admit to this, it is outright foolish not to. It is not a contradiction, after he hung himself from a tree YHWH caused an earthquake and his corpse fell on a rock and split open. He didn't die twice, that is a common misinterpretation.
@killerproctologist88 said "The independent sources is the proof in its' 100% historical and archaeological accuracy"
There is no archaelogical evidence of anything supernatural. None of the supernatural claims of the bible have verification and some that should do not. Sorry, not there.
Judas, LOL. Will you provide the passages in your bible that this earthquake and rock are referenced? I know your New Testament fairly well and I just do not remember where that info is located.
@joestfrancois Well yes, the supernatural component requires faith. Otherwise there would be no reason not to believe which would eliminate what makes genuine love genuine. What I'm saying is, to reiterate a point I made earlier, the basis on which you deny the supernatural is more unfounded than embracing it because of its' 100% accuracy. People say Christian faith is based on nothing, but if I found the Bible to be wrong historically or archaeologically, I wouldn't give it any credence.
@killerproctologist88 said " but if I found the Bible to be wrong historically or archaeologically, I wouldn't give it any credence"
You will never find it wrong as long as you add or take away to stuff that is obviously wrong. Take the Judas story. You added a whole buch of stuff that is just not there to make it work for you. You know it too. All superstitious make up what they want to believe. It is very clear. For example. Do you honor the sabbath?
@joestfrancois What stuff did I add that isn't there? I backed up what I said with scripture, if you deny that that is simply unbelief and foolish. The sabbath is an OT covenant of Judaism. The only part of the 10 commandments the NT apostles didn't reiterate is for the gentiles to keep the sabbath because when Jesus died on the cross, a new covenant was made. In this covenant, setting aside a day of worship is keeping the Sabbath because it is the age of the gentile.
@killerproctologist88 " I backed up what I said with scripture, if you deny that that is simply unbelief and foolish. "
LOL, that earthquake was in the crucifixtion story and does not rectifiy the two deaths of Judas. If there was an earthquake that shook the body on a rock and burst it it should have read "and god sent an earthquake and the body of Judas was thrown to the ground and it burst open."
Here is the fun part. You know this. You know you are making it up. LOL.
@joestfrancois the Sabbath takes on a different meaning since the advent of Christ and the inauguration of the Kingdom of God. Jesus’ observance of the Sabbath was according to the old ways of doing things under the old covenant. But Christ came to fulfill the stipulations of the old covenant. Those observances cease to be binding since the resurrection and ascension of Christ. So yes, I do set aside a day to worship Christ and the church has decided that is on Sunday.
@killerproctologist88 said "Judas LOL is right! Matthew 27:54 is where the earthquake that caused Judas body to fall from the tree and burst is recorded."
@Fenrirsdoom As to my feeble minded state. I maybe a fool but I became a fool to be made wise in God. For I am a workmanship of God. Any goodness I have came from him. I'm far from religious. Religion couldn't give me what I have.
@Fenrirsdoom You don't have to "disprove" the idea of a unicorn. You merely have to show that it is more probable that there is not one present, than it is probable that there is one present.
Again: nothing that we know... absolutely nothing... is known with absolute and irrefutable certainty. The human mind, and his decision making apparatus, absolutely cannot function if not on the basis of probability.
@Fenrirsdoom ..and if you'd like to play the skeptic game.
Prove to me that you are awake, and that the world you perceive is a world outside of your dream state. My standard of evidence is absolute and irrefutable proof. If I can provide but ONE alternate hypothesis for any of your evidence, your evidence is worthless, and you have not proven that you are not awake.
@Fenrirsdoom ...keep in mind that all of your objections likewise have a burden of proof placed on them. But you've gone too far.
First you must show what your standard of evidence is, and then you must show why it is a reasonable standard, and then your opponent has to agree to it, AND THEN the proving begins.
Again: pseudo-intellectual skeptics do not engage in philosophy, but in an undermining game based on "irrefutable and absolute" standards of proof.
@TorahLights Nah I'm afraid they don't have the burden of proof. If you think that then we need to stop this debate. I'm not claiming anything therefore I don't have the burden of proof placed upon me thats like me saying to you their is a pink ethereal, invisible unicorn stood behind you and he talks to me...... can you disprove it? If not it exists. Ok how about this can you give me evidence without using 1) The cosmological argument 2) The watchmaker argument 3) The ontological argument.
@amaka61 "Fenrirsdoom tell me ur evidence on how you know electricity and the air you breath exists?"
Excuse me for jumping in, but those things can be directly observed and objectively measured in some way; whereas your "god" can not. Outside of your own head, personal feelings and without appealing to the emotional gullibility of others, how can you demonstrate that your "god" actually exists?
@Fenrirsdoom That depends on what you would consider evidence, in all honesty.
Most skeptics play a little game. They set, as their standard of evidence, absolute and irrefutable proof. They then spend the rest of the game demonstrating how all evidence presented doesn't absolutely and irrefutably demonstrate a theistic position. Their role is simply to undermine.
The fact is, we know nothing absolutely and irrefutably; and no science is based on such impossible criteria.
@TorahLights No I don't expect that but I do expect decent evidence and I have never heard any evidence demonstrating to me a good reason to believe in a Deist God let alone a Theist God
@Fenrirsdoom Again I will ask you: what is your standard of evidence?
If you do not accept that a person should provide absolute and irrefutable evidence for the existence of G-d, then what DO you believe they should be able to provide?
What if someone could show that G-d is 52 per cent likely to exist versus 48 per cent likely to not exist. Is this sufficient probability to make a decision?
In science, and indeed, in EVERY decision we make in "real life", it certainly would be.
@Fenrirsdoom I'd also like to point out: if you do not speak or read Hebrew, then you have not read the Bible.
What you understand as "the Bible" is loosely an English translation of a Latin translation of a Greek translation, all translated by individuals who were never intimate with Hebrew to begin with.
Texts can only be understood in their language and in the milieu of the culture that produced it. What you understand is European culture, and not Hebrew.
@TorahLights So God wrote a book so that only those raised in Hebrew can understand it and the rest of us either A) believe what people who can read Hebrew say it says or B) Get sent to hell for not believing in something we have no chance of ever understanding. Sounds like he doesn't really care for us at all. But of course you haven't even prove that a deist God exists let alone your man nailed to a cross pierced with a spear god
@Fenrirsdoom I am a Jew: I do not send you or any one else "to hell" for not being Jewish.
But I will always state that, until you understand Hebrew, and until you study it within the culture that produced it, you will not understand the Bible.
You are free to read it if you choose, but you are not bound by it. It is not a text that was intended for you, as a goy.
@TorahLights Yes but if you believe in Christian theology you believe that you have to follow the Bible. If you don't believe in God, Jesus etc then you go to hell so what you're saying would mean that the majority of people aren't even given a chance.
@TorahLights Isn't the New Testament written in Greek? So, Hebrew while being great for the Old Testament - would not be much help for the New Testament.
@mmilarry The New Testament is absolutely dependent on the Tanach; your "Old Testament." The former can be false, whilst the latter absolutely true.
I would argue that, if the writers of the NT, along with the church fathers, (a) spoke and read Hebrew; (b) did not use a (mediocre) Greek translation of the Tanach to compose and interpret their NT; then certainly, your misunderstanding and misapplication of the work would have been far less prevalent.
@mmilarry LXX, in its original form, was a translation of Torah only... at least as far as myth and legend can be believed.
That the rest of the Nach was translated when and by whom? History cannot tell us, but... it can certainly show that it was maintained solely by Christians from at least 200 ce, and that it was considered by the Christians themselves to have been maintained sloppily with additions and deletions -- thus it was in no way reliable.
God is love, correct, but, what about the God of wrath we see in Revelation and in the OT? How bout that God? See, we have to understand, God can be perfectly love and He can also perfectly hate at the same time. Him not loving someone doesn't contradict Him being love. Otherwise everyone would go to Heaven and Rob Bell would be correct in his heresy.
God from Genesis to revelation has particularity in his love, did God love the Egyptians the same way that he loved the Israelites, did God love Jacob the same way he loved Esau, Did Jesus not have particularity in his relationships with the disciples, Your right, God is love and he demonstrates that by preserving this world even though it is full of God haters, If God would save one he is infinitely merciful beyond description let alone an uncountable number from every tribe, tongue and nation.
That dont make sense. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son. That whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16. God loved all people the same unto salvation. He loved the world, he loved the sinners too. All the same unto salvation. And Jesus said He is one with the Father. Sorry Piper, I respect you but I disagree with your bold statement.
I choose LOVE!!!
leighbjh 1 day ago
the psalms are songs and poetry. the point is against the stand of God's perfect righteousness and goodness, evil cannot stand. but in a literal sense we are all evildoers, we are all sinners, therefore, none of us could stand in the presence of God. Therefore, the message of Christ, that all have sinned, all have fallen short of the glory of God and so we rely on the love and mercy of God to redeem us.
leighbjh 2 days ago
@leighbjh
Thats right, thats exactly right. God hates sin, therefore the only way for Him to love us like he loves his righteousness is by being deemed righteous. He cant/wont love anything that isnt perfect. And I dont know if you can tell, but there are only two options in the Bible to me, love and hate.
ItsSolaFide 1 day ago
God loves everyone, regardless of creed, belief, faith, race, sex, . . . . . . .
leighbjh 2 days ago
@leighbjh can you explain Psalm 5:5?
3BALL4 2 days ago
...And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.Acts 13:48b
repent65 3 days ago
Luke 19:26-27 Praise Jesus
JACKSCHEESYSMILE 3 days ago
nice video, thanks for uploading. You should re-type the title, "Go doesn't love everybody the same way" Maybe I'm wrong on that.. but that's word-for-word with what Piper says in the first few seconds
ginasnaps50 4 days ago
No offsense to John Pipper, but...just cuz non-christian has a difference stance with Jesus don't mean he/she is loved less.
Seriously has Pipper not read the Gospels? Also anyone else notice how he has to RAISE his voice so much, like he's mad..not even a little smile... and actually now that I notice Pipper raises his voice often...TURN OFF UR CAP LOCKS, Piper.
SoniaSephia 4 days ago
@SoniaSephia If God loved everyone the same way all would be saved... You can't just go around it.
BritneyAddicted4EVA 3 days ago
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@BritneyAddicted4EVA BritneyAddictedEVA, I was not talking about being saved, I was just talking in general this, "just cuz non-christian has a difference stance with Jesus don't mean he/she is loved less," quote from my comment. Yeah Jesus takes a VERY different role with a christian vs a non christian, but still Jesus love for the non-christian is just as strong, just that He's trying to bring the person to reprentence.
Just saying.
SoniaSephia 3 days ago
"Jesus doesn't love everybody the same"
Yea, Calvinists are last. Seriously, I'm starting to think you guys are the worst kinds of heretics.
M3PanoS 4 days ago
Judas was hard core in sin.
zerubabel3 5 days ago
Jesus did not will for Judas to go to hell. He knew that he was going to hell but He did not predestine him to go to hell by not praying for him. Every man is given a free will. Judas could have repented after he betrayed Jesus, but he didn't. Peter repented and came back. For God to, "Love someone less" would imply that God's love is not infinite, but we know God is infinite and God is love. (1John 4:8)
A57834 5 days ago
If Jesus didn't love Judas the same way, what is that kind of love that make Judas go to Hell? In other words, did Jesus love Judas or not at all? Here the problem is that John Piper thinks that Jesus didn't love the same way God the Father did in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world", be carefull!, it's NOT a FRACTION of the world!!!
Davichoo 1 week ago 2
I think what he is saying is that God loves everyone but his love for his children is more of an affectionate love(because of the relationship there) where as his love for all the other people is an accepting love like we are commanded to have for people we dont even know.
cwinget2580 1 week ago
@MrD2dude to your Scripture references, let's look at them in context through exposition. Your first two references came from Paul talking about what God wants, not the reality of His Sovereign choice. God wants all people to be saved but it doesn't mean all will be saved. If you recall when Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane He pleaded with the Father, "may this cup be taken from me[Jesus]". (Matthew 26:39) Jesus didn't WANT to go to the cross, but He DID for the glory of His Father and the
nickyiza 1 week ago
This is satanic... not sorry...
2 Pet. 3:9
1 Tim. 2:4
2 Cor 5:18-21
Lk 19:10
MrD2dude 1 week ago
Jesus does love everyone the same way. The very first statement that came out of his mouth is just flat out not true...
sharkie00000 1 week ago
Intercession is the job of the Holy Spirit. Jesus loves everyone the same. He loves when a person comes to the Lord. He said he would leave 99 sheep that follow him to go get the 1 that lost. The reason Jesus prayed about his disciples is to ask the Father to give them strength to carry out his will and preach the gospel. The attacks of the Devil on the righteous are much more frequent than to those he not need to attack. This person is taking words out of context.
IvanTheHealer 1 week ago
Jesus doesn't love everyone.
Yet Jesus is God. They're entirely similar.
God is infinite love. Then so is Jesus.
So, God must love everyone if we can honestly call him infinite love, and so must Jesus.
I spotted an inconsistency.
Pythagoras211 1 week ago
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Q. Do muslims believe in Jesus Christ ? A. Believing in Jesus and all other prophets of God is a fundamental part of muslim faith. Muslims believe that Jesus is the son of Virgin Mary, and he had no father. God created Jesus and he is a prophet IE saying he is god. Or the son of god is a major sin in Islam
DJibby1 1 week ago
I starte laughing when I saw the title
and kept laughing when I saw the video.
dhunt6789 1 week ago
Amen Dawie2006
thap8tient 1 week ago
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
dawie2006 1 week ago
@dawie2006 When will Jesus pray for the world?
741rjohnson 1 week ago
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@741rjohnson "When will Jesus pray for the world?"
Never. If Jesus prayed for the whole world, everyone would go to heaven, which is not nearly the case.
God only loves the elect, Jesus only intercedes for them and only died for them. The rest God hates.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
dawie2006 1 week ago
No no no no no.... What are you saying?!? God LOVES all of is the exact same way. Just because you come to know Him doesn't mean He loves you less... Just because you don't doesn't mean he loves you more or less. He loves us all equal. But. What I think he was trying to say but failed... I that God has a different LONGING for those who do not yet know Him. He loves us all the same.
chuck4norris4444 1 week ago
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@chuck4norris4444 "No no no no no.... What are you saying?!? God LOVES all of is the exact same way."
God takes care of all people as their Creator (common grace), but loves as Father only the elect, for whom alone Jesus died (special grace). The rest's sins aren't forgiven. God is their Creator but not their Father. They're his unrepentant enemies. He hates them, and will incarcerate them in hell forever.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
dawie2006 1 week ago
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All have sinned and greatly offended the Holy God of the bible.! The just punishment is death then hell. because God is good He cannot let sin go unpunished. He will by no means clear the guilty. Gods will is that all come to repentence He became a man Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal salvation.
mamainmancj 1 week ago
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." God loves all men. Those who receive Christ receive this love, those who don't reject it. It's there all the same.
TheSunShinesbyGrace 1 week ago
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@TheSunShinesbyGrace "God loves all men."
As Creator He takes care of all, but as Father loves only the elect, those He chose before the foundation of the earth. Only they go to heaven, because only for them did Jesus die, not for the reprobate.
"While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
The word "us" doesn't refer to everyone ever born, but only to the elect, like Abel, David, Peter etc. It doesn't refer to reprobates like Cain, Saul, Judas etc.
dawie2006 1 week ago
gosh, people liek these and Camping's crew are tools. I'm Christian but this is ridiculous
BarrelRollking 2 weeks ago
@BarrelRollking I highly doubt that.
drawdechun 1 week ago
@BarrelRollking
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth..."
...the Bible is in complete support of this belief: Jacob I loved; Esau I hated. The Bible says God hates the wicked.
aveyowyns 1 week ago
@aveyowyns Hate is a very low human emotion. Anger is for those who have been unpleasantly surprised at something.
Why would an omniscient god hate something he had created? How could anything make him angry with surprise?
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe
"Why would an omniscient god hate something he had created?"
Why is the sky blue and not red? God hates sin and hates wickedness...
"How could anything make him angry with surprise?"
When did I say God was angry with surprise?
aveyowyns 1 week ago
@aveyowyns I'm so sorry - when you told me about your hateful god, I just naturally assumed he was angry - which would mean that he was taken by surprise. Hate and anger go together in humans - that was what made me assume that god was a human invention. Hope I haven't offended you.
Red sky at night, shepherd's delight.
Peace on earth.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
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@BarrelRollking "I'm Christian but this is ridiculous"
Well it comes from the Bible so maybe you're not really a Christian, you just think you are.
Joh_17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
dawie2006 1 week ago
jesus doesn't love anybody, because, if he ever existed, he's a dead dude - long turned to dust. The molecules that made him have been transformed into other forms and await their return to the stars which made them in the beginning.
If you believe that you can be loved by something in the spooky spirit world then you are desperate.
There is no soul, no afterlife. no supernatural, nor any reason to think there is anything after death.
And thank goodness for that!
Eternity? You can stick it!
StrumstickJoe 2 weeks ago
@StrumstickJoe actually what intellectual arguments do you have for your position.You cant prove there is no afterlife,therefore u cant be 100% sure there is no afterlife,as that is something that is outside the realm of Human science.U just cant use worldly stuff to try to prove something not out of this world.And the bast part is that Jesus saves if u have faith alone in him for eternal life.U just need to believe in Christ to save you and he will.U dont have to do anything at all.ITs free.
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb Are you telling me that you accept and follow this faith rubbish just in case there's a god?
OK - I'm sure he won't notice!
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe not at all,im just telling it to you...you atheist usually like to calculate..anyway why do u waste your life on Christian Videos if u dont believe...seems pathetic to me.
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb If I can help somebody as I pass along, then nothing is a waste of time.
Religion is demeaning to the human race, with its primitive belief in a creator and "lord" to whom you must grovel; and its assumption of guilt to control the mind of the vulnerable by calling it a soul and threatening it with eternity.You should beware the irrational, however seductive. Disbelieve the 'transcendent' and people who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself.
Who's pathetic?
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe Just please tell me the reason u dont believe,can you?
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb Yes, I can tell you. I don't believe your myth, or any of the others', (They are mostly from the same confused stories of the primitives anyway)
I'll send you a poem (it needs a bit of work, I know, but it sentiment is in the right place) Look out for it.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb Just found out I'm blocked.
Never mind - you just keep your mind closed.
Bye.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe Im sure you are smart enough to accept the free gift,even if it werent true(which isnt the case),you wouldnt have nothing to lose,and if it is true u got a lot to gain.Please be smart.
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb Is god able to prevent war, crime, torture, pain and natural disasters but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he willing, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he both able and willing? Then why do they happen?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then what is the point of him? Why do you believe in him?
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe
"Is god able to prevent war, crime, torture, pain and natural disasters but not willing? Then he is malevolent."
War and crime is the result of the hardening of sinful man's hearts. It is God's nature to give sinful man over to the desires of their heart (which is to promote self and demote others, whichever form that takes) because those desires are death. It is His judgment upon man, same with natural disasters. As for pain, apart from a religious standpoint, to associate...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe ...pain with negativity, it is the sign of a feeble and weak mind. Our culture has propagated the idea that pain is terrible, it is evil, and that it is bad to experience. Rather, pain is an indicator of something being wrong. In the case of physical pain, it reveals to us our physical limits. Emotional pain reveals to us how we feel and respond. Either type of pain puts us through a season of tribulation and it tests us to steadily improve us and make us better as human beings...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe So is God malevolent? No. A more appropriate description to use in this case is to say that God is a righteous and just God. Yeah, He is as terrifying and terrible as He is good and loving, but that does not make Him evil. To attribute evil to God in light of these characteristics would be similar to attributing evil to an upright judge who punishes criminals. To say that the upright judge has no love in his heart because he punishes criminals is absurd.
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@SureAndSteadfast OMG he's terrifying, is he??
OMG I am asked (nay, forced) to love somebody that's terrifying or he will put me into hell to be tortured for eternity.
Oh yes! I love him! I love him!!
Your contrived religious pronouncements do not stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
Just find clarity, love those you know, and think for yourself.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe Assuming you are an atheist, and that the fundamental belief of atheism is to abide in such ideas that are founded by and established in logic, you've contradicted such belief by immediately resorting to satire. I responded to converse, not to exchange arrogant comments of pride that demean the intellectual capacity of another. I'll continue to exchange with you if you refrain from satire and just keep it civil...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe Btw, for informational purposes, I do believe you would enjoy Hell. Not saying that I would send you there myself or that I would take pleasure in you going there. Rather, the idea that you want nothing to do with a Christian God makes Hell an ideal place for you. You won't have to really put up with Him there, and you will be free to pursue whatever you would wish. I can guarantee that you'd never reach those pursuits though. However He still rules in Hell, so He'd still be there
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@SureAndSteadfast The teachings of christianity: from vicarious redemption, to the love of enemies, to the urging that no thought for the morrow must be taken, no thrift, no care - but rather hate - for friends and family, to the apocalyptic wish for humanity’s end… these are immoral as well as utterly illogical teachings.
Please try to understand that I don't believe them because they are unbelievable.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe
In the context of there being no God in our universe and existence, the presented argument is very understandable and I would agree with such if I was fully convinced of the absence of a God. All of those teachings that you had mentioned, they are most certainly immoral and illogical when mankind is the centerpiece of everything. However, our opinion of those teachings should shift when the centerpiece is not us, but the Christian God, and it does make sense, and here's why...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe ...Starting with vicarious redemption: it is a seeming contradiction in Scripture itself. Proverbs 17:15 states "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the LORD." The redemption proposed from the Bible is that God justifies wicked men, which is what the Bible calls us, correct? So why isn't God an abomination in His own eyes? We are free to accuse Him based on Scripture itself! However, Romans 3:26 states "It was to show...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe ...His righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." God then cannot be judged as an abomination by His own standard because He executed justice and damned Christ upon the cross, therefore legal justification is made available to sinful man. We know there is evil in the world, we see it everyday. It is the nature of man to be this way. So then is it evil on God's behalf that we are legally justified while still...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe ...being evil in nature? It is our natural inclination to think that if you don't punish a criminal, they will go back to recommit the crime. The difference here is that those who God justifies, He changes their nature. As for the love of enemies, this is a commandment to those who God justifies, it is not expected of all men. Why? Because it is following the example of God, wherein He gave up Christ for us while we were His enemies, hating and wanting nothing to do with Him...
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe ...Those that God justifies are expected to love their enemies because God did so for them while they were His enemies. If the justified do not forgive the trespasses of others, then there is no forgiveness left for them from God. So again, that is not a commandment universal to ALL men, it is a commandment to those whom God has justified. I know, I made this really long, but as initially stated, all this comes with the premise of God's existence. If not, we won't go any further.
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@SureAndSteadfast Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
There seems to be a terrible misunderstanding on the part of a great many people to the effect that when you cease to believe you may cease to behave.
LOUIS KRONENBERGER
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.
ROBERT A. HEINLEIN
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@StrumstickJoe Not sure what you are trying to achieve with those quotes. I agree with them wholeheartedly, but I'm not seeing where you're trying to go with all of it
SureAndSteadfast 1 week ago
@SureAndSteadfast I can pay a man's debts, if I want to help him. I can even serve his time.
But I can't forgive him for something he has done to another human! That would be mad and immoral. To say, "I forgive you for treading on that man's toes" is absurd, vicarious, stupid. Who am I to ignore the victim's broken toe, and give you forgiveness in spite of it?
If anybody offers to forgive you in that manner, distrust him; tell him he is evil and immoral.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
It makes perfect sense.
StrumstickJoe 1 week ago
Jesus DOES love everybody the same, not their sin. The bible even says, "38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[b] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." ~ Romans 8:38-39 and "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
~ Romans 5:8
PhilosAphylas 2 weeks ago
@PhilosAphylas He didn't come for the righteous, He came for the sinners.
PhilosAphylas 2 weeks ago
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@PhilosAphylas said "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
First off, a true sacrifice for the debt we are supposed to owe would be for your god's son to take our punishment and spend eternity in hell, not a couple of days in a cave.
Second, I disagree that men are "sinners" and need redemption. You have failed to provide any evidence for that, you just keep saying it is true. Your assertions are pretty weak.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
This is true, he loves everyone the same except John Piper, he hates that guy
RubberToadstools 2 weeks ago
If God does not love everybody, for me to show love to everyone and try to follow peace with everyone would be an ungodly charateristic, for you would not be immitating God. It would mean that its right for us to hate some people.
patricks916 3 weeks ago
Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing." And the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice.
--looks like Jesus is praying for the the world right here.
krystatawlks 3 weeks ago
This is more "Two Loves of God" theological nonsense that is so commonly peddled by Piper, MacArthur and their Neo-Calvinist disciples. If God does not have SAVING love for everybody then there is no well-meant offer (sincere offer) of salvation to all of humanity based on the love of God. The fact is - God does not love everybody (Rom 9:13, Ps 5:5, Ps 11:5) People hate that truth because they prefer to worship Santa Claus rather than the God of scripture.
theearstohear 3 weeks ago
wow gr8
7181481 3 weeks ago
John Piper is unsaved and going to hell and god decreed it to be so. Tough.
Calvinismisbiblical3 3 weeks ago
this may by far be the most utter bullshit i've heard ever heard in my life
jerryluo8lol 3 weeks ago
None of this shit matters.
BlotBlackInk 3 weeks ago
so why didnt he pray for judas?
niinja2 3 weeks ago
All that matters in the end, is can you accept the fire within you...... is your attachments to great to hold onto the fire..... or will your sin quench out the flames.
o0POSH0o 3 weeks ago
Well if he doesn't love everyone I'm fucked.Oh no actually I think I should be ok......... because God almost certainly isn't real!
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom noooo u got it wrong dear.......just receive HIM now.....HE loves u....if HE dint u wld have been dead by now....HIS the giver of life....just accept HIM now as ur LORD and personal Savior now...HIS ALWAYS WITH YOU....just say JESUS i believe u died for my sins i receive u in my heart now...then get a bible and find a good church ok...u will be amazed how your life will turn out...HIS FULL OF GOODNESS MERCY LOVE AND GOOD GIFTS which HE gives at all times. all the best dearest friend
amaka61 3 weeks ago
@amaka61 Ok number one I have read the Bible number 2 have you got any evidence for the existence of this God of yours? Any evidence to back up any of your claims? The things you say are not self evident and just because you say them doesn't mean you're right
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom You denying them doesn't make them untrue. You wish proof. You and I and 7 billion other sentient humans on this planet. A planet in a system of 9 planets and this is the only one that bears life. Against all mathematical odds this planet has life on it. Even against more astronomical odds actually has sentient life on it. You still demand people to connect the dots you refuse to connect yourself.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 Of all the planetary bodies in the Solar System, probes have landed on only one, Mars, with instruments designed specifically for searching for life as we know it. Even with that in mind, a sample size of 8 planets (and the dwarf planet Pluto), hardly gives you enough information to set odds for the chances of life occurring elsewhere. Rejecting unsupported claims is not the same as denying “god”. The rational question still remains; where is your falsifiable evidence?
DEdgeOfReason 3 weeks ago
@DEdgeOfReason Where is your falsifiable evidence that the claims are untrue?
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 no no no you have to prove what you're claiming is true. Its just a little something called the burden of proof. Otherwise I could claim that there is a pink invisible, ethereal unicorn standing in front of you. And you would have to disprove it. Can you disprove that? Of course not but that is what you are doing
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom No that isn't what I'm doing. I'm pointing out facts you are pointing out pink unicorns. You have been given arguments you merely ignore them and bring up this tripe. I then turn the tables on you since you entered an affirmative stance that God doesn't exist and you attempted to back pedal to the agnostic position. Where is your proof that our position is untrue? You either answer or shut up.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 "No that isn't what I'm doing. I'm pointing out facts you are pointing out pink unicorns. You have been given arguments you merely ignore them and bring up this tripe."
I'm seeing no facts to justify that you could set odds for the chances life occurring anywhere. How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively. I'm seeing no facts if you shift the burden of falsifiable evidence to those whom you ask to believe your claims.
DEdgeOfReason 3 weeks ago
@DEdgeOfReason How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively to prove that life is a common occurrence? How many planets have life on them? Of those with life on them how many of them have sentient life on them?
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
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@BrotherMichael1000 "How many planets have you explored and tested conclusively to prove that life is a common occurrence? How many planets have life on them? Of those with life on them how many of them have sentient life on them? "
In other words you have no facts, only beliefs.And you hide your lack of supporting evidence for your "god" in this rather trite evasiveness. Then in further comments on this thread, you regurgitate stale old Jesus Myth all over poor Fenrirsdoom. NOT convincing.
DEdgeOfReason 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 My view is as an agnostic atheist. I am not trying to disprove the existence of God I'm rejecting claims that you make i.e God is real and he is the Christian God. My point is perfectly valid I just changed God into a unicorn. You claim God is real it is not me who has to disprove you but you who have to attempt to prove your claim to expect otherwise suggests a feeble mindedness brought on by thousands of years of religious arrogance to believe somehow you are above this.
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom Then you suffer from the same feeble mindedness as you seem to be devoid of any knowledge as to your position. There is no such thing as agnostic atheist. atheism Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. agnosticism The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist Pick one.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 No atheists do not see any evidence for the existence of God a gnostic atheist believes there is absolutely no possibility that there is a God which I would agree is arrogant and foolish but an agnostic atheist says there probably is no God but does not deny that there is a possibility
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom Doesn't matter what you are. You demand others to prove to you the truth. We give you the truth and you spit on it. Then you like many religious people hide behind labels. Labels wont save you.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 How can i know its the truth if you can't give evidence for it? Would you believe me if I claimed I was abducted by aliens? Or would you want ot investigate it first? Haha I love it you can't defend your beliefs so you bring out the fire and brimstone..... classic
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom I've given you all the proof you will get in this world. I care not if you find my responses humorous. The truth is Jesus Christ was crucified, buried, and on the third day rose from the grave. These are historical facts. You either believe he is the Son of God or don't. Without Christ as your savior you will be judged according to your works. Your works are woefully inadequate as are all of man's works. You think your the first to mock the Faith?
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 Yeah what evidence do you have for that claim? The Bible? Starting on the threats because you can't support your own arguments? This is the moment I know I have won the discussion
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom You think you've won something? Friend this is your eternal destiny. The moment you must choose the broad road or the narrow road. Pick one and I sincerely hope you pick the right road. There is only one way and that is Christ Jesus. I doubt sincerely that your pride will comfort you much in the here after.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 Devoid of a reasoned argument to Fenrirsdoom, you spout yet another self-righteous bombast.Your “here after” and “eternal destiny” is no more valid than Elysium and Hades unless you present real evidence of such. Also your Jesus is no more real or historical than King Arthur.Start with the contradictions of his birth place, the location of his great Sermon on the Mount, and conflicting stories in the Gospels about who was at his tomb when he arose; all indicate rehashed myth.
DEdgeOfReason 3 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 organised religion ,churches,professional christians, are the natural result of the genisis of christianity, and it will always be so. but through all the man made confusion[council of nicea to start with] the kernal of truth which jesus left us with can never be exstinquished. because spiritual revelations ecspecialy through jesus,are a fact because the truth of our humanity has to be discovered by every man in his time, lets get rid of out dated doctrine.
lordofthecoils 2 weeks ago
@lordofthecoils Ah You mean throw out the Holy Bible. No thanks go back to your emergent heretical Church and enjoy the koolaid they are feeding you. Tell Rob Bell I'm a bible believing Christian thank you very much.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 said "Tell Rob Bell I'm a bible believing Christian thank you very much."
Have you read the thing? That is not a good thing to say. Do you believe the whole thing, or just the parts that you like? Do you beat your wife? Do you have slaves? Does your whole family including your children (but not your wife) and any visitors to your house and your pets and livestock do no work in any way on the sabbath? What are you saying?
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois I follow Jesus Christ who fulfilled the law. I have no wife but if I did I would love her as Christ loves the Church. You wish to say because man is to be in leadership of his wife and she to submit to him that is only insofar as he is biblical and following the full truth of scripture. He is to be the priest of his household and be obedient to Christ and love his wife even as his own flesh. Further Mark 2:27-28 and Mark 3:2 He is our Sabbath.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000
Uh huh. You miss my point completely. You make up what you want to believe to suit the lifestyle that you want to lead, for whatever reason. There are many things that "followers" of Jesus Christ ignore or explain away. The slavery in the New Testament is a good example. It is there, it is undeniable, but explainerd away because superstitious people make up what they want to believe. Superstition sucks, accept reality.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois I do not explain away anything. A slave who has Jesus Christ is richer than any wealthy man alive for he has life and more than life. It is not ignored and certainly isn't explained away. We are buffeted and treated cruelly on every hand. We are marginalized and hated for the testimony we hold. We do not ignore it but return evil with good, and hate with love. This is the reality as is pride of life. He that loves this present world has his reward already.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 "We are marginalized and hated for the testimony we hold."
LOL, ha ha. whatever. Try coming out to your co-workers as an atheist, Makes saying "Jesus is Lord" sound like saying "Hi" in the morning. You superstitous types are in the majority in the US but still act as if you are not. Funny how you don't deny slavery though. So would you own a slave if the secular law did not prohibit it? In the OT you could have sex with a slave. In the NT as well or not?
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Many profess Christ but how many believe in and trust him enough to make him lord of their lives? If your an atheist I would still love you. Christ died for you as well as me. I wouldn't own anyone but I would buy one out of slavery and free them. I wouldn't own anyone. Though it is interesting that you bring up if the law didn't prohibit slavery. Yet the same law turns a persons substance over to medical bill collectors even if they cannot afford to pay?
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000
You are saying you yourself would not own people, but can you find fault in someone who did own people? According to your bible there is no "sin" in that.
Your bible is not a book that I think worthy of being a reference for human behaviour in the 21st century. It makes no difference though. people choose what they want to believe as it suits them for whatever reason.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Hey, I did not mean to put words in your mouth. As I read it, your bible condones owning slaves. Would you agree that it is not a "sin" to own a slave according to your bible?
My point is the same. Superstitious people make up what they choose to believe.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois It is a sin to own another. For if one doesn't wish to be a slave how can he in good conscience own another? Would that not be hypocrisy? For the Lord did declare do unto others as you would have them do unto you. ref Matt 7:12; Luke 6:31; Mark 12:31; James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" Is enslaving another loving your neighbor as you love yourself would one enslave themselves?
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 "It is a sin to own another. For if one doesn't wish to be a slave how can he in good conscience own another?"
Oh no, you are adding to what is written in yor bible. It does not say it is a sin to own another person. In 1 Timothy 6:1-3 it even talks about being the slave of a believer. That your morals are better than your bible is commendable, but not required to get into your heaven.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Friend I've given you scripture confirming what I have said. It is incumbent on you to read said scriptures. I haven't added to scripture at all. If I would not want to be a slave it is sin to put on another what I wouldn't put on myself. That would be pride and arrogance. No my morals are not above scripture. The only righteousness I have is in Jesus Christ. Of myself it would be mere filthy rags.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 said "If I would not want to be a slave it is sin to put on another what I wouldn't put on myself."
Mike, you seem like a nice guy. I am sorry you are caught up in superstition. I think what we are seeing here is what I feel is a great indicator of everybody choosing what they want to believe. You bible says otherwise. From where I am standing it is obvious that it is all made up, you are sort just confirming it. I like your sincerity though.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Friend what I gave you is what some call the Golden rule. It is the ultimate rule when you study the core of the Gospel. Ultimately the reason man is so depraved and wicked is they put on others what they wouldn't put on themselves. They use others to attain their own desires with total disregard for their neighbors. That isn't made up it's just the truth.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000 said "Friend what I gave you is what some call the Golden rule."
Yes and what I gave you were passages from your bible that showed that you can believe in Jesus Christ and own slaves and still go to your heaven. It's made up Michael and none of it has basis in fact, and you are trying to insert things that are not there. Again, you arguments support my contention that every believer picks what they want to believe. Accept reality, please.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois I I have accepted reality. You on the other hand are ignorant of one important fact. You should re read 1 Timothy 6:1-3 Our conduct as Christians is to Honor God no matter our circumstances. Whether we are free or slave, rich or poor. To walk in the love of God. This isn't picking and choosing. Men even when saved battle their flesh but a honest Christian wouldn't force on another what they wouldn't desire for themselves. Matthew 23:24 Consider what you do.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael
All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois
Teach and preach these principles. If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth,
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@BrotherMichael1000
I find the wording pretty clear. It also says if you disagree you are conceited and understand nothing. 1 Timothy 6:1-5
Michael, you seem like a good guy and sincere, but what you are doing is picking the part of the superstition that you want to believe. All superstitious people do that. Sorry. you all make it up. If you enjoy the gathering of the brethren that is good. But look the next time you go, does everybody believe exactly what you do?
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
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@joestfrancois Everyone believes exactly what I believe where I go. We haven't made this up. You are in complete error and the words you quoted in your first follow post "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing;" He was talking to you. I do hope you have a very long life.
BrotherMichael1000 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Not that I want to get in the middle of this but, We are all slaves to whatever we serve. Be it God,& doing his will.Or our flesh,& fullfilling its desires.l would rather be a slave to Jesus Christ.And be free from being a slave to sin(the works of the flesh) unto eternal life. Than be a slave to my own lusts(fornication,Adultry,greed,lying,ect.) unto eternal damnation.For the wages of sin is death.But the gift of God is eternal life. And that life is in his son.
HumbleHeartMinistry 2 weeks ago
@HumbleHeartMinistry You are not getting in the middle of anything. When faced with passages from their bible, superstitious claim foul or clam up. This debate was likely over.
You said though "For the wages of sin is death.But the gift of God is eternal life. And that life is in his son."
You can believe that if you want to. There is nothing that indicates that is true. You be a slave to a made up entity. You make up what you believe anyway.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois The proof is in the Bible, and in the 100% accuracy of historical and prophetic events. Jesus Christ is real, and He is who He claimed to be. The basis on which you deny that is more baseless than embracing that.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
@killerproctologist88 said "The proof is in the Bible, and in the 100% accuracy of historical and prophetic events. "
The short answer to this is no. You have made a claim here. I cannot falsify your claim. I also cannot falsify claims made by Muslims or Jews or Pastafarians. Your book cannot verify itself, that is not how it works. Tell me, from your book, how did Judas called Iscariot die?
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Pastafarians? Haha is that a joke or is that an actual religion? The Bible is verified by independent sources. The Dead Sea scrolls, and the archaeological evidence (for many years the Bible was the only ancient text to mention the Hittites you can look that up) are just 2 examples. Judas Iscariot committed suicide.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
@killerproctologist88 said "The Bible is verified by independent sources. "
Not really. The text of your bible is, that is true. But your bible is not an eyewitness account of the events of the life of Jesus. There is very little that can be verified by extra-biblical accounts and nothing at all of a supernatural nature. Nice try.
Judas hung himself in Matthew. In acts he fell down and his guts gushed out. It is a contradiction, look it up.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois The independent sources is the proof in its' 100% historical and archaeological accuracy. Even secular atheists admit to this, it is outright foolish not to. It is not a contradiction, after he hung himself from a tree YHWH caused an earthquake and his corpse fell on a rock and split open. He didn't die twice, that is a common misinterpretation.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
@killerproctologist88 said "The independent sources is the proof in its' 100% historical and archaeological accuracy"
There is no archaelogical evidence of anything supernatural. None of the supernatural claims of the bible have verification and some that should do not. Sorry, not there.
Judas, LOL. Will you provide the passages in your bible that this earthquake and rock are referenced? I know your New Testament fairly well and I just do not remember where that info is located.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Well yes, the supernatural component requires faith. Otherwise there would be no reason not to believe which would eliminate what makes genuine love genuine. What I'm saying is, to reiterate a point I made earlier, the basis on which you deny the supernatural is more unfounded than embracing it because of its' 100% accuracy. People say Christian faith is based on nothing, but if I found the Bible to be wrong historically or archaeologically, I wouldn't give it any credence.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
@killerproctologist88 said " but if I found the Bible to be wrong historically or archaeologically, I wouldn't give it any credence"
You will never find it wrong as long as you add or take away to stuff that is obviously wrong. Take the Judas story. You added a whole buch of stuff that is just not there to make it work for you. You know it too. All superstitious make up what they want to believe. It is very clear. For example. Do you honor the sabbath?
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois What stuff did I add that isn't there? I backed up what I said with scripture, if you deny that that is simply unbelief and foolish. The sabbath is an OT covenant of Judaism. The only part of the 10 commandments the NT apostles didn't reiterate is for the gentiles to keep the sabbath because when Jesus died on the cross, a new covenant was made. In this covenant, setting aside a day of worship is keeping the Sabbath because it is the age of the gentile.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
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@killerproctologist88 " I backed up what I said with scripture, if you deny that that is simply unbelief and foolish. "
LOL, that earthquake was in the crucifixtion story and does not rectifiy the two deaths of Judas. If there was an earthquake that shook the body on a rock and burst it it should have read "and god sent an earthquake and the body of Judas was thrown to the ground and it burst open."
Here is the fun part. You know this. You know you are making it up. LOL.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois the Sabbath takes on a different meaning since the advent of Christ and the inauguration of the Kingdom of God. Jesus’ observance of the Sabbath was according to the old ways of doing things under the old covenant. But Christ came to fulfill the stipulations of the old covenant. Those observances cease to be binding since the resurrection and ascension of Christ. So yes, I do set aside a day to worship Christ and the church has decided that is on Sunday.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
@joestfrancois Judas LOL is right! Matthew 27:54 is where the earthquake that caused Judas body to fall from the tree and burst is recorded.
killerproctologist88 2 weeks ago
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@killerproctologist88 said "Judas LOL is right! Matthew 27:54 is where the earthquake that caused Judas body to fall from the tree and burst is recorded."
LOL, LOL, no. and you know it too.
joestfrancois 2 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom As to my feeble minded state. I maybe a fool but I became a fool to be made wise in God. For I am a workmanship of God. Any goodness I have came from him. I'm far from religious. Religion couldn't give me what I have.
BrotherMichael1000 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom You don't have to "disprove" the idea of a unicorn. You merely have to show that it is more probable that there is not one present, than it is probable that there is one present.
Again: nothing that we know... absolutely nothing... is known with absolute and irrefutable certainty. The human mind, and his decision making apparatus, absolutely cannot function if not on the basis of probability.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom ..and if you'd like to play the skeptic game.
Prove to me that you are awake, and that the world you perceive is a world outside of your dream state. My standard of evidence is absolute and irrefutable proof. If I can provide but ONE alternate hypothesis for any of your evidence, your evidence is worthless, and you have not proven that you are not awake.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom ...keep in mind that all of your objections likewise have a burden of proof placed on them. But you've gone too far.
First you must show what your standard of evidence is, and then you must show why it is a reasonable standard, and then your opponent has to agree to it, AND THEN the proving begins.
Again: pseudo-intellectual skeptics do not engage in philosophy, but in an undermining game based on "irrefutable and absolute" standards of proof.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@TorahLights Nah I'm afraid they don't have the burden of proof. If you think that then we need to stop this debate. I'm not claiming anything therefore I don't have the burden of proof placed upon me thats like me saying to you their is a pink ethereal, invisible unicorn stood behind you and he talks to me...... can you disprove it? If not it exists. Ok how about this can you give me evidence without using 1) The cosmological argument 2) The watchmaker argument 3) The ontological argument.
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom *there
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom Fenrirsdoom tell me ur evidence on how you know electricity and the air you breath exists?
amaka61 3 weeks ago
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@amaka61 "Fenrirsdoom tell me ur evidence on how you know electricity and the air you breath exists?"
Excuse me for jumping in, but those things can be directly observed and objectively measured in some way; whereas your "god" can not. Outside of your own head, personal feelings and without appealing to the emotional gullibility of others, how can you demonstrate that your "god" actually exists?
DEdgeOfReason 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom That depends on what you would consider evidence, in all honesty.
Most skeptics play a little game. They set, as their standard of evidence, absolute and irrefutable proof. They then spend the rest of the game demonstrating how all evidence presented doesn't absolutely and irrefutably demonstrate a theistic position. Their role is simply to undermine.
The fact is, we know nothing absolutely and irrefutably; and no science is based on such impossible criteria.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@TorahLights No I don't expect that but I do expect decent evidence and I have never heard any evidence demonstrating to me a good reason to believe in a Deist God let alone a Theist God
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom Again I will ask you: what is your standard of evidence?
If you do not accept that a person should provide absolute and irrefutable evidence for the existence of G-d, then what DO you believe they should be able to provide?
What if someone could show that G-d is 52 per cent likely to exist versus 48 per cent likely to not exist. Is this sufficient probability to make a decision?
In science, and indeed, in EVERY decision we make in "real life", it certainly would be.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom I'd also like to point out: if you do not speak or read Hebrew, then you have not read the Bible.
What you understand as "the Bible" is loosely an English translation of a Latin translation of a Greek translation, all translated by individuals who were never intimate with Hebrew to begin with.
Texts can only be understood in their language and in the milieu of the culture that produced it. What you understand is European culture, and not Hebrew.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@TorahLights So God wrote a book so that only those raised in Hebrew can understand it and the rest of us either A) believe what people who can read Hebrew say it says or B) Get sent to hell for not believing in something we have no chance of ever understanding. Sounds like he doesn't really care for us at all. But of course you haven't even prove that a deist God exists let alone your man nailed to a cross pierced with a spear god
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@Fenrirsdoom I am a Jew: I do not send you or any one else "to hell" for not being Jewish.
But I will always state that, until you understand Hebrew, and until you study it within the culture that produced it, you will not understand the Bible.
You are free to read it if you choose, but you are not bound by it. It is not a text that was intended for you, as a goy.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@TorahLights Yes but if you believe in Christian theology you believe that you have to follow the Bible. If you don't believe in God, Jesus etc then you go to hell so what you're saying would mean that the majority of people aren't even given a chance.
Fenrirsdoom 3 weeks ago
@TorahLights Isn't the New Testament written in Greek? So, Hebrew while being great for the Old Testament - would not be much help for the New Testament.
mmilarry 3 weeks ago
@mmilarry The New Testament is absolutely dependent on the Tanach; your "Old Testament." The former can be false, whilst the latter absolutely true.
I would argue that, if the writers of the NT, along with the church fathers, (a) spoke and read Hebrew; (b) did not use a (mediocre) Greek translation of the Tanach to compose and interpret their NT; then certainly, your misunderstanding and misapplication of the work would have been far less prevalent.
..and no, LXX was NOT Jewish.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
@mmilarry LXX, in its original form, was a translation of Torah only... at least as far as myth and legend can be believed.
That the rest of the Nach was translated when and by whom? History cannot tell us, but... it can certainly show that it was maintained solely by Christians from at least 200 ce, and that it was considered by the Christians themselves to have been maintained sloppily with additions and deletions -- thus it was in no way reliable.
TorahLights 3 weeks ago
God is love, correct, but, what about the God of wrath we see in Revelation and in the OT? How bout that God? See, we have to understand, God can be perfectly love and He can also perfectly hate at the same time. Him not loving someone doesn't contradict Him being love. Otherwise everyone would go to Heaven and Rob Bell would be correct in his heresy.
bryandrums18 3 weeks ago
God from Genesis to revelation has particularity in his love, did God love the Egyptians the same way that he loved the Israelites, did God love Jacob the same way he loved Esau, Did Jesus not have particularity in his relationships with the disciples, Your right, God is love and he demonstrates that by preserving this world even though it is full of God haters, If God would save one he is infinitely merciful beyond description let alone an uncountable number from every tribe, tongue and nation.
AReformedChristian 3 weeks ago
I disagree with the pastor and I don't wonder why ,so many people reject Jesus because he's doctrine of limited love of God
PikkuMiku 3 weeks ago
God doesn't just love. God IS love. John Piper, I disagree with your statement.
ohwellable 3 weeks ago
There's an Obama ad right before this video... oh how satan controls the media.
Metalheadviolinist 3 weeks ago
That dont make sense. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son. That whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16. God loved all people the same unto salvation. He loved the world, he loved the sinners too. All the same unto salvation. And Jesus said He is one with the Father. Sorry Piper, I respect you but I disagree with your bold statement.
vnquidam 3 weeks ago
@vnquidam This verse is quoted so often with no one questioning the scope of the language in this verse. Separ