Not judging someone is like a doctor not telling a patient they have cancer...of course the doctor should do it professionally and it would be foolish on behalf of the patient to be mad at the doctor. Also saying people shouldn't judge is a judgment.
Christians are commanded to judge yet not hypocritically. The whole "don't judge" cry is an attempt to make people feel guilty for helping you realize your sin so they might go away and you can continue sinning. I would be evil if I didn't warn people about their sin.
I`m a fundamentalist and there is no reason for me to kill anyone or use any kind of violence, please. It is obvious in the Bible that most people will not believe and those who question God`s word are just natural human beings, they are not _more_ evil.
@encii79 I think you misunderstand Crossan. He even predicts that you would say you wouldn't kill anyone personally. What he is saying is that fundamentalism leads to a kind of carelessness to the wellbeing of other people who are not fundamentalists. If your vision is fixed on the next life, you may be content to vote for people who are dangerous because they might speed things up. It's a callousness towards unbelievers because they are not worth saving. It's meanness.
@riverdaughter3 Ok, there is a big difference in our view of fundamentalism. I understand his point but it holds only for a small group of people. For me the ideal is to even die FOR others and their salvation. The problem is that like people from completely different cultures, you can not understand all the meanings in the other persons worldview and experience. As a Christian fundamentalist I feel like a stranger and a hidden immigrant in this world.
I come from a family of Christian fundamentalists and Crossan is spot on. I know exactly what he's talking about and you do too. You guys need to knock it off. I don't want you to die for my salvation. I want you to alleviate suffering in THIS world and stop worrying about what's going to happen when you die. No, no, don't try to argue with me. I've heard it all already. Life is messy. Deal with it.
@riverdaughter3 Okay, I did not mean to be rude to you. I see you come from a JW family. May we all focus more on alleviating the suffering of others.
whenever someone goes to the "men in the room" example i start to wonder. fundamentalism isnt about temperments! its about principles. principles never over-ride the sacrificial love and love towards enemy comandments of the Gospel. we need to note that one man's opinion over what is spiritual and physical does not take precidence if truly the Holy Spirit indwells us. Hm, only spiritual understanding makes this world come alive. There is a battle and a judgement, sorry bout it mr. crossan, WRONG
@dbenjenks The essence of Crossan's critique of fundamentalism is the judgmentalism that comes with it. The fundamentalist believes in passing judgement. The fact that you see a person who is an unbeliever as an enemy is just what he is talking about. While it may be true that god judges, you have already judged. That leads to carelessness for the wellbeing of other people.
I cannot stand the fundies. A true Christian would never want someone else to go to Hell for being wrong and would gladly give their eternal life for that other persons Hell sentence.
Hitler did not hate all Jews....John D Crossan does not give right information. Up to 150,000 of Hitler's favoured officials were zionist Jews. Hitler, funded by Rothschild, killed the non zionist Jews (Orthodox Jews) and he encouraged the zionist Jews to go to Palestine where they were funded by Rothschild to flatten towns and villages and kill defenceless Palestinian people who had lived there thousands of years and thus building the infamous state of Israel.
@RavenofShalott lol calling out against hypocrites is in line with scriptures Jesus and Paul called out hypocrites because they were leading the people away from the narrow path. Just to be sure we are on the same page I did not call John Crossan or you a hypocrite but they are Christians hypocrites around the world that is not judging someone but rather called it for what it is and I'll have no problem someone call out on me hypocrisy if need be if they had a valid point we have to call out sin
@RavenofShalott You quoted John 3:16 but are you aware that it is impossible to believe in God and continue to live in sin ? How about reading Philippians 1:15-18 ? Well I don't know about all the preachers out there (I know there are many Christians hypocrites out there who got caught doing the contrary to their preaching but I think in general those who preach, they preach about sins they do not live in since if they live with a particular sin it must be Ok to them so then to others also...
@RavenofShalott lol I do wear cotton-polyester but I do not eat bacon !!! lol the idea behind my comment is that so called "small commandments" or "secondary commandments" in human perspectives are not to be neglected and we have many examples in the Bible of such cases. My encounter with fundamentalist on the internet and in real life, they speak mostly about these "lost commandments" in the secular World no longer in the constitution it has nothing to do with their interpretations !!!
@RavenofShalott I agree on the U.S. part, but they are out there some congregation that are "true to the faith" although few in number as Jesus said + remember that true followers of Christ such as Priest, Pastor, evangelicals, fundamentalist, preachers... knows pretty well when preaching against sin and unrighteousness we always preach for ourselves first then to the masses just as Paul and James stated in their letters, preachers and teachers will be judge and be accountable more strictly !!!
@RavenofShalott lol first of all the so called "standards" are not my own nor the fundamentalist standards but rather God's standards, believers disagree on theology but when it comes to morality all "True believers in the faith" knows to differentiate right from wrong there is no room for interpretation ! He misrepresent fundamentalist by speaking about the minority who thinks like that + Paul meant that when you come to Christ you no longer need the law since you are no longer a transgressor!
When Jesus was on the Earth 2000 years ago, the religious fundamentalists wouldn't even let Him in their churches. So He preached outdoors. Then they were jealous of the huge crowds who gathered to listen to Him.
I attend the church of Christian music, but I also love mainstream music, such as:
"I'm going to make a change for once in my life. It's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right." ~ Michael Jackson
From his place in Heaven, Michael Jackson is still making a difference, still making it right, for us here on Earth.
Love one another. To love others, begin by loving yourself. Try to see yourself through God's eyes; then you'll see how beautiful you are, how worthy of love.
As the human race advances/evolves, I really believe that all religion will cease to exist. It's just a matter of time... We need to hold on to the teachings of the spiritual leaders of the world (current as well as those of the past) and let go of the nonsense. Even the word "God" is a loaded word today because it means so many different things to so many different people. Can't we simply love one another and do good in the world? Unconditional love is God evolving - and enough to live by.
Modern Ecumencial Church agrees with Professor Crossan's concerns with religious fundamentalism and proposes an open minded (and open hearted "modern religion" as an alternative to sectarian conservatives that dominate traditional religion. We invite people to visit our church website (google modern ecumenical church) and consider our 10 Central Concepts for a modern religion
@Ravenof OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah might or might not refer to homosexuality conducts but it is clear that homosexuality is a sin, it does matter if it talks about it 1 time or 1000 time just as bestiality there are only few references but still is a sin which people must be aware of it not forcing it down your throat but sharing the real biblical message, of course as Jesus said it you'll be despised and hated for it in this sinful generation
I do respect John but everything he said in that interview is completely nonsense. Preaching the Word of God and calling out sin as you understand it to your surrounding; in no means makes you hateful of others who don't obey your interpretation, I'm sure He will have no problem that anyone speaks out against murder, stealing or lying but when it comes to speak against sexual immorality, homosexuality or abortion now you are a fundamentalist because not all Christians agree on that matter ???
(was not ready to post) ...the obe that is threatening to do away with the "fundamentalists" in the room. We who are Bible literaliists and can be called fundamentalists for it, are the ones who know that we need to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. We are not the ones rattling a saber against you.t
There is a "genocidal germ" in saying "you better get rid of what is distinctive about Christianity, i.e. Jesus, or else it will not be allowed to exist. This is what Crossan said on TV a few years ago. That germ is likely to erupt into genocidal action since it has the intolerant "or else" attached to it.
It's hard to shake the faith of a fundamentalist bible believing Christian. That's why the devil speaks against it so often. New Testament professors are holding hands with
the anti-christs!It's best to know what God says,not professors!
Crosson is as fundamental in his views as anyone. He seems to indicate that the truth cannot be known... Does he know that? He says fundamentalists say that others are wrong. Does he think this is wrong? Every argument he makes can be turned against his own position... Hitler said the Jews were a virus infecting the people. Does Crosson think fundamentalists are a virus infecting the people.
The question is, does truth exist, and if so, what is the truth. Crosson does not speak to this.
What people need to do is stop worrying about.... I belong to a Independent Fundamental Baptist church in Tenn. Im also a preacher. I know Jesus didnt have four legs. But look at the old testament, a lamb was a sacrifice... Guys like this educated person are confusing people. Im not changing to please people. Im set in my ways. GOD LOVING WAYS. Learn what fundamentalism is before you bash it. People make us out to be haters...... Woe unto the man whom the offense cometh.....
If all christians and, indeed all people of faith, where like this then religion would stop being so detrimental to society.
Life is about seeking answers that we may never truely discover, religion is about making eveything fit into a predetermined picture of what is true and what is not. The ammount of people who are terrified of this man simply justifies the claim that people are afraid of not knowing. Of asking questions but recieving ambiguous answers at best.
All religions are man made institutions to gain support of the poor, weak of mind and the needy to use them for power in the form of governments. I don't even know why intelligent people debate this...... If you want to believe in something dig deep within your hearts and pray to whats inside.
@1macboo God in the way it is portrayed IS manmade. if you want to find your true God dig deep within your heart and you will find him. Your time on this earth is between you and the person you are.
@mooshead66 I would hesitate to say that relgion is for the poor,"weak of mind "and needy...it seems you (and i assume you consider yourself not to be "poor,needy or weak of mind") consider yourself to be one who is at a higher level at some sort than poor believers. people like MLK Jr,Gandhi,Bono,JD Crossan,Dorthy Day,Rumi,Tutu,etc,etc,etc,..these people,weak of mind they may be , are people who looked inside and still found God. We are not all on the same journey, live and let live. peace!
the problem with this argument is that it implies the fundamentalist judgment of others comes from the fundamentalists themselves, whereas a literalist would not do this. the problem is that there are often specific scriptures dealing with worldly judgment and punishment (stoning gays, etc.), that a supposed literalist would adopt without inventing anything at all himself.
the problem with this argument is that it implies the fundamentalist judgment of others comes from the fundamentalists themselves, whereas a literalist would not do this. the problem is that there are often specific scriptures dealing with worldly judgment and punishment (stoning gays, etc.), that a supposed literalist would adopt without inventing anything at all himself.
That seems like a slippery slope fallacy. Just because I believe that to believe that the physical Resurrection of Christ is essential to Christian belief, does not mean that I want to destroy others. Crossan fails to mention that fundamentalist Christians believe that but for the Grace of God they deserve hell, so they would want to correct a fellow man's error and save him. They would want to share the grace they have received. It might hold that other types of fundamentalism do this.
@TranshumanCyborg Components of the self are not internal and external they are all internal and the projections of self are external and not all projections are correct. Fundamentalist Christianity posed Satan as something external, and this is why I believe Crosson is giving this short lecture on the dangers of Fundamentalism because those projections can be dangerous to others.
@TranshumanCyborg What culture is this? It sure is not the Christian culture. All religions have done is separated the spirit from the body, basically saying their is a separation between the two, but there is no separation. The duality of the religions CAUSE that separate thinking. What we have to do is join them back together. We are a spirit having a physical experience, this IS us. We have to take responsibility for our actions in the physical experience and realize there IS no duality.
@TranshumanCyborg Once you realize what the use of the ego is, then the ego is no longer a problem. The ego is the memory function of our brain. Thus why it causes such havoc...it remembers every thing, every feeling that we have had. You can not get rid of the ego, you just have to put it in it's proper position and not live by it.
Just a question though...what do you think 1 Corinthians 5:5 means?
@TranshumanCyborg There is a book that you would gain from reading called Satanic Ritual Abuse by Colin A. Ross, it sounds like the book is about the abuse but it is not only that, it also describes how "Satan" came about and why. Once you realize that, you might decide you do not want to use Jesus as a model because the ideology segments the person into halves instead of a whole body and mind as one.
@naneux Basically, what Miabelara is saying is that society makes her/him realize that the evil is inside instead of an outside force that she can name "Satan" and she doesn't like that idea. lol This proves that Christians do not want to take responsibility for their own actions thus why they have always needed a "scapegoat". Jesus was the scapegoat thus why he was called the LAMB of god, before that they always used real lambs blood.
@miabelara and no god is not good. During hirricane katrina many elderly folk and children drowned in their attics while praying to god, simultaneously, the survivors were outside an attic without rising water above their neck, praising the lord for saving THEM. How do we know who god saved? Why would god kill the elderly and children, you are not understanding that your god resides in paradox, either he wanted to kill the children and elderly by drowining them, or he didnt care to save'em.
@miabelara Its not a personal assumption that jesus did not exist. The assumption on your behalf is that he did exist. Jesus never existed by virtue of your lack to prove he did. THis is where you have a duty to be honest to yourself and admit, you dont know if jesus existed, you dont know if god exists and your entire religion and/or practice has been based on something that may or may not be true.
@miabelara The good news! ha! Thats like picking the good parts out of the communist manifesto and ommitting the oppressive language. Jesus teaches that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you too will go to hell. You sin every morning by shaving, putting on clothes, eating that extra piece pizza et cetera et cetera.
@miabelara Who wrote that book Miabelara? Who wrote the Gospels?
Do you know if the people that wrote it were good or bad? Is that not called BLIND FAITH? That is what I would call it. You know NOTHING about the people that wrote that book. NOT ONE THING. Only what was written in the book about those people..who supposedly wrote the book.
@miabelara But your BELIEF says that if people do not believe, they go to HELL.
You really think SOCIETY forces it's beliefs on people? What about the Inquisitions? How many people have died as the result of Christians spreading their beliefs? Miabelara, I am part Native American. Do you REALLY want to claim that Society pushes their beliefs onto people after what CHRISTIANS did to my ancestors? Do you know that Christians stole Native American children and sent them to Christian homes?
@miabelara You say my statements have no foundation, but what do yours REALLY have? You have a book written 1800 years ago by people whom we DO NOT know, nor do we know the reason why they wrote it. THINK ABOUT IT.
Why is the word VIRGIN in the bible so many times? Do you think that a REAL god would be so hung up on the virginity of a woman when there was people that were doing 100 times worse than losing their virginity like... ritualistic MURDER?
@miabelara No, and this is what you aren't getting Miabelara, he might be YOUR truth, but he is not truth to others. I was a Christian for 30+ years, then I looked around me and saw...wait, these people are not GOOD people. They were fundamentalist Christians, who wanted a one world religion, who FORCED their beliefs onto others, just like you are attempting to do now. You SAY that people have a choice, but all the while in the back of your head, you WANT them to go to Hell for non belief.
@miabelara Read the book called Satanic Ritual Abuse By Psychiatris Colin A. Ross where he explains what Satan really means. The reason I know that there are no other laws are because if there was some god that needed me to know his laws, he would have told me about them personally and not relied on some men thousands of years before me, thousands of miles from me, to write them down, and translate them, other wise it would mean that your god is malevolent. Which he was.
@miabelara Yes, I have came to the realizations of eternal truths, the eternal truth is that we are ALL one, made by one creator of the universe, who gave us enough room to evolve. The only real laws that the creator put in place are the universal laws and the laws of physics. We judge ourselves, there is no Satan, the bible was written by men attempting to explain something to replace something else, and Jesus was most likely not even a real man. Live and let live is the REAL truth.
@miabelara So you want others to live by your beliefs? Are you willing to live by others beliefs?
This is why Professor Crossan says what he says...
You have things ass backwards, you want Atheists and Christ haters to follow Jesus teachings because you want them to change their ways because they are YOUR ways...because you are a fundamentalist. Please listen to what he says.
@miabelara The reason he is explaining this is because virtually everything that is known about Jesus was changed so many times in the 1st 100 years after his supposed death, that no one knows if Jesus existed or not. Yes, fundamentalists do want to get rid of their opponents, the fact that you say "opponents" proves it...we are not your enemies. We just do not believe in the same thing you do.
one thing i find hard to understand is the readiness with which some people grab and hold onto the teachings of the bible or for that matter any religious' holy book'for the love of fuck we all know or should kolw that they were written in a time through nobodys fault people were highly superstitious and uneducated,now we are supposed to be educated and we have insane people trying to pull the world back to them days and are getting away with ti and they actually expect to be respected for it
If a person "believes" much of the bible then that person is a stooge. Demonstrate your God first before you "believe" the fairytales. Gods are unproven supernatural stories for the simple-minded to believe.
Christianity, the Abrahamic God, and the Bible are actually three different phenomena that were conceived in three completely distinct historical epochs. They were tied together by the burgeoning Catholic Church when it was consolidating its power.
Jesus couldn't have been a fundamentalist because he didn't have the Bible to follow. He didn't know he was founding Christianity. I think he would be appalled at what people who profess to be his followers do in his name in the 21st century.
This clown Crossan is a ding Bat who got lost ! He feels the bible a judging tool for him to decide who goes to heaven or not ? i su5re hope he is not in any possion of teaching the words of Jesus for we will all be heading for hell if we listen to him ! Lord help us if this is what we have being tought to us by what he thinks ! he must think we are all here to judge man and not follow Jesus ?
"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass;
he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,
The problem is confusing people with their sins. Jesus seperated the person from their sins, saw the person in the image of God, and elimated the sin, not the person. The way Jesus defended the protestute was an example...let the one without sin cast the first stone. Jesus also taught not to fight evil with more evil. You love your enemy and bless and do good to them instead of hating them. That stops the cycle of violence. He laid his life down on the cross, took the punishment on our behalf.
@dawnthi Im agnostic but im aggre with you !Lets end the war beetwen atheism and fundamentalism. Accept every as it is .sex color even if he/she is a homo lesbian bi beliefs or lack of belief. Dont be racist. I pretty sure Atheist agnostics deists christians buddhist muslims hindus etc. All can accept and LOVE each other. And we will build a beutifull earth for our children. with nature with love. PEace and love.
Ps: I think the TRUTH is written down in us where no greedy man can change it!
@dawnthi Can you explain to me how he separated man from their sins? I mean, Men still sin. Men sin all the time. Some things I don``t even consider a sin. Unless you`re committing purgery a white lie really doesn`t do much to anyone. In fact a lie can be a very good thing at times. And coveting, that`s what the economy is based on, and coveting a wife is impossible to free yourself from. If a woman is drop dead gorgeous, you`ll think about her. I think not raping shoulda been on the list.
@IsolationInstigation: Jesus separated us from our sins when He bore them on the cross. Now He sees us as without them, because He has borne them. It is mysterious, but we are to enter into it by faith in Him, because what the Bible has said about it, the Spirit of God has shown our hearts is true, so we believe Him.
@Mcfirefly2 Not to start any kind of shit storm, as often, these debates tend to go that way, but I have a hard time separating Jesus from regular men. This might really offend you, but I don`t see a difference between him and Joseph Smith. I mean, Smith was able to convince thousands of people that he was a prophet. Although we can clearly tell from his prior track record that definitely wasn`t true. But, the fact that the crucifixion was so long ago, and the only documented evidence is a book.
The great flaw here is that he evolutionary ethics of Hitler&his ilk, have NOTHING TO DO with any form of valid Christianity nor the teachings of JESUS CHRIST in the BIBLE. To argue like this& attempt to deploy this analogy is convoluted in the extreme. Jesus made clear that the basics of the Law for all men is to LOVE. Love God with all your heart, mind & strength. And right next to that is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as yourself. Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc..spoke & ACTED ONLY O F HATING GOD & OTHERS
@IsolationInstigation: Jesus separated us from our sins when He bore them on the cross. Now He sees us as without them, because He has borne them. It is mysterious and profound, but we are to enter into it by faith in Him, because what the Bible has said about it, the Spirit of God has shown our hearts is true, so we believe Him.
I don't believe in God or the supernatural, but I very much applaud what this intelligent and generous Christian has to say. I also enjoyed the respectful, non-accusing tone in which he said it. That's the danger with inerrant truth. If you are one hundred percent sure you're right, there's far less reason to allow people to disagree. Fundamentalist religion used to be pretty minor in America. If fundamentalists had less influence, many of the arguments by Anti-theists would loose their force
Crossan is right on here. I haven't researched him enough to know all his beliefs but he makes a very good point here against fundamentalism. It needed to be said. Thank you, Mr. Crossan.
there is EVERYTHING to stop me from going out and killing anytone who denies the Bible as the word of God, namely the LAW of God.
those who kill in God;s name defy the Word of God to do it.
Crossan does not know his subject.
Besides, if he says fundamentalism is dangerous he is saying by implication that it is anti god. does that by his own definition make him a fundamentlist?
I think this is a misunderstanding of fundamentalism. It surrenders to the fundamentalists their notion that they believe the literality of the Bible.
But fundamentalists do not believe in the love of God, nor the forgiveness of sin. and any fundy who believs in murdering those who promotes evil actually defies the literal bible which says that God alon is the judge.
fundamentalism is comitment to biblical truth without belief in biblical truth, and teh distortion that follows
I don't think it's right to equate intense disagreement or even puritanical attitudes with genocidal tendencies. bndkllr2 seems to believe that people who find homosexual practice immoral would execute homosexuals if given the power and opportunity. It's a slippery slope... irrationally cynical and paranoid of theological conservatives. One could easily turn this thinking back on itself. If you find fundamentalism very threatening to the faith, maybe you're unconsciously genocidal, too...?
3. It's dangerous to live ina country where approximately a third of the population is obsessed with a book written 2000 years ago, and they believe it to be true.
This is exactly the same thing the secular and non-religious people are afraid of... that unquestioning faith in an ideology will lead to unacceptable violence because it is somehow God's will.
I will say one more thing, and then I will shut up. Unfortunately, we have allowed the media to abscond with a perfectly determinate description and apply it to murderous extremist. And you, dear sir, are caving to the battle of identity and renaming your religious position under the pressure of a PERCEIVED nomenclature. When the word "Christian" receives a similar negative conotation, will you again acquiesce. The essence of fundamentalism is to defend your beliefs in the face of opposition.
The one person in the room that thinks he has the truth is not a fundamentalist, he is a psychotic. Christian fundamentalism is to say that certain doctrines of scripture are literal, and uncompromising, and are generally specific to sotoriology, i.e. virgin birth, death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To transpose this aproach to creationism, homosexuality, abortion, escatoloty,etc is a misapplication of the principle of fundamentalism and leads to extremism.
Good evening. I hope you are well. Your logic is entirely unscholarly. To allow the Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist church, and the like, to define fundamentalism is to allow the drivers of the Daytona 500 to define tailgating. You are allowing the extremist to define a cogent religious principle. The word "fundamentalism" was originaly used to describe a literal rather than an allegorical/metaphoric interpretation of scripture. The word is prefectly discriptive. Your use is in error.
I'm just about sick of crazy ass religions! It's 2010 wake the fuck up and think for your self! There is no God only you! Stop hurting others with your lies!
@ThazuaBlackarrow: I don't know were you live, but if you live in America you can "God Bless America" for very fact you can say what you have without fear of consequence. But, there are many places in our world where you would probably get arrested, maybe tried or just convicted cause they can, then maybe you'd get thrown in some stinking hole, or simply shot so they wouldn't have to feed you. Or, they could just shoot you in the first place and not have to go though any of that.
On the other hand, we were told man is naturally good for having a spark of divinity(modernism) so we must rescue(save) fromoppressive society in the social gospel. After two world wars-this was shattered as these two wars reflected the fundamentalist teaching-man is evil or man is a cruel god. On the other hand-how many peoiple have Christian fundamentalists actually advocated killing those who disagree-last I checked-Catholicism was more responsible for this compared to fundamentalism
As a fundamentalist-it is always even in metaphorically has a literal understanding. Christ death on the cross-and the literal understanding is the thousands of lambs which were sacrificed as a type of Christ aspointing to Christ.
On the other hand, I wander hyow many American Christian fundamentalists actually killed someone because of fundamentalism? J Frank Norris is pronably the only fundamentalist perhaps you can accuse of this.
And I could pose the question: what do you think our society should do with these fundamentalist? See with a broad generalistic stroke this man is suggesting that a fundamentalist's concept promotes the "genocidal germ", and the danger in that is: Societies cannot tolerate intolerance and as such these fundamentalists must be dealt with severely. So now we have another sort of genocide, the riddance of Christian fundamentalists. .
@dalerob66 you just made a huge jump there, he never said we should get rid of fundamentalists somehow, like killing them, or saying they are evil, he's saying they are WRONG, and arguing against it with the purpose of changing fundamentalists to non fundamentalists, and convincing others that fundamentalism is wrong
Remember that all we are dealing with is mental patients. That's what fundamentalist religious people are. (A far-gone "Star Wars" fanatic should be considered the same way)
I would never advocate the extermination of those with mental problems - especially when their brains are capable of being cured. (Many an uplifting story here on YouTube)
They should be incarcerated though, until fit to re-enter society.
its funny, but those posts below saying "be careful of Crossan, he's dangerous" is making his point...if he's dangerous, then we should do something about him and people that think like him...hmmmm
You Go, John Dominic Crossan! He's absolutely right. There is an underlying nature of fundamentalism that seeks the elimination of all those who don't have the truth, if there was a real opportunity. My niece is fundamentalist and she believes that if we had a Christian state, that all the old testament moral laws should be reinstated; that gays should be executed, rebelling youths stoned, etc. Pretty scary, don't cha think?
Jesus is the perfect lamb of God, he had to be to be our atonement for sin. Be careful of John Dominic Crossan's remarks. He has no use or need for Jesus. If you love and worship Jesus, be very careful of Mr. Crossan and the Jesus Seminar. John Dominic Crossan's remarks are trying and he trys his best to cancel any remarks that support Jesus as the Son of God.
@durbinjeff You've proved his point, lol. If you have God on your side then why are you afraid of this guy and the Jesus Seminar? Are you not strong enough in your faith so you have to demean a fellow Christian? Is God not strong enough to withstand any falsehoods against Him/Her? Perhaps you should start believing and trusting in Christ. Just a thought.
@durbinjeff If you have God on your side then why are you afraid of this guy and the Jesus Seminar? Are you not strong enough in your faith so you have to demean a fellow Christian? Is God not strong enough to withstand any falsehoods against Him/Her? Perhaps you should start believing and trusting in Christ. Just a thought.
Well then I guess we've done a whole 360degrees then. Don't you wish we were all "peaceful extremists"???...lol Extreme Peace... hey, that sounds great!
VERY well said & clarified. I can see this type of process happening in a couple of fundamentalist Christians that I know. It is frightening to see their personalities undergo this rigid & unbending change. And they certainly don't seem to be happy - only very angry.
Well this perspective in itself is an extremist perspective against anyone who believes that they indeed DO have the only truth. If I'm forced to have to believe that others can have the truth, then what's the purpose of having any individual world view???...I can be a peaceful extremeist!
that "others" also includes you. it also seems then by your own definition... Crossan is also a peaceful extremist, you and Crossan have much in common.
If having faith all that matters, then satan should have a full priced ticket to heaven. he believes in jesus and god just like fundamentalists but he hates them. love and acts of kindness and doing good works is the key to becoming a true christian. faith alone will not save you! it takes good works to get to heaven. if you don't believe that, then satan ought to go to heaven too right? i already explained it to you, GOOD WORKS IS THE PATH TO HEAVEN it will be a challenging road! it's not easy.
okay so a rebellious son continues to disobey his father and mother even though he is punished. so they bring him in to be stoned to death. that's more or less chapter 21 of Deuteronomy verses 18-21 is about. what does this have anything to do with what i said before?
the christian creation stories are not meant to be taken literally. they are parables with a message for people to live by. they also often quote the bible pretending like they know everything about the bible when in fact they are the least knowledgeable people about the bible. they only quote selected verses from the bible. it takes a lot more work than quoting the bible to be a good christian. it's called doing good works and living by the golden rule. it seems like they're all parrots.
This makes sense. We can already see the consequences of Christian Fundamentalism in Uganda, where legislation is being passed to execute gay people. Whether the fundies like it or not, THAT is the inevitable consequence if enough people adopt their views on homosexuality.
Saying that someone who believes in the bible literally is prone to violence is a huge stretch and irresonsible. I'm a not a fundamentalist but sometimes anti-fundamentalism is just as scary as the former.
I disagree with the idea that all fundamentalists are wannabe genocidalists. Some of them are really nice people. But they cannot stomach their isolation from mainstream society; if you think you are the guardians of the truth and the chosen ones, been seen as fringe kooks is not at all comfortable.
This desperation is what may lead some to do desperate things. But they're not stupid. A lot of them understand that murder and terror will not help their cause.
This is a load of crap! No fundamental Christian would desire to kill non-Christians. That idea is against Christian teaching. People love to hate Christians with the freedoms Christian ideals propagated. Read a Bible, learn something.
Actually, I'm a history buff-love it. I know their have been people who do horrendous things under the guise of religion. That does not fall on the shoulders of truth. The actions of such people are not exhorted nor condoned by Christian doctrine. Christianity is a set a ideals that are embraced as they way to follow GOD's will. If someone does not agree with those ideals, they can follow the ideals they believe more accurately honor GOD.
Do you hate Christians or the GOD they represent? Either way, YOUR extreme resentment renders you incapable of reason or logical dialog regarding this matter.
@AmericanRelic2hear Why "God bless America"? What has America done to be worth being blessed? The illegal war the US started and has been continuing since 2001, which kills allies, enemies and civilians alike, the corruption and greed and everything people just love to point at and laugh at the US for, the ignorance and bigotry towards other people (IE Mexicans, Muslims, etc.), the overly proud American "Patriot"? Does not sound bless-worthy to me.
You are wrong. Christians do not want to bomb Iran and every other Arab country. Only the terrorists in them. You might consider going to one of those non-Christian countries. You know-make that a "better" place. LOL
when you think about it, even in the worlds religions - humanity is mirrored in them. We can all cling to what we 'want' to believe to be true, whatever it is. For me, God is simply metaphor for the wonder of life. Some are scared by life, death and themselves so cling to things. But i believe the core of religion - is much needed and as much a part of the universe as a rock on mars. Love for others, compassion and humble open mindedness to reality, is the true way to help you here and now.
The here and now is all that matters to me in religion. Forget the afterlife, or nothingness if thats the case. There is nothing to fear. But live a good life while your here. Christ, God, Buddha, whatever, are all storys, to ignite the good side and teach us to embrace the bad with a big warm hug - knowing everything will die why do we really worry and live in fear so much? let go of it all and just accept the middle path of wonder, wisdom, and unselfish love.
msole -- all religious people are most certainly NOT "deep-down fundamentalists." It is cynical to label them as such, but it is also irresponsible and false. I suspect there is more possibility in religion than you have imagined.
I understand your point and where you're coming from. But to take religious scriptures seriously is not the same as taking them LITERALLY. More liberal Christians and Jews, for instance, discount much of what the Bible says, or view parts of it as metaphor... I, however, do take MY religious principles literally, but I'm not a Christian. Yet take a look -- I doubt you would brand me a fundamentalist. :)
ralph unless it says next to the text(this is a metaphor) i don't think you have the right to say rather it should be taking serious or not... if god is real, fundamentalists will be the only one saved. luckily god is not real.
msole, but religious liberals who still believe in God would tell you that the scriptures are subject to human error or that they're the work of people trying to understand God's will (not taking down dictation). Crossan's point in another video is that the God "imaged in Jesus" is a God of love and non-violence that is different from the one we see in the Old Testament.
Any religious language that deals with metaphysical ideas and places ("God," "Heaven") IS metaphorical. Footnote implied. :)
hmm.... i suppose. but i think that when it comes to religion it is ahard for pople to interpret i personally see the bible ass jewish mythology, and believe it to be nothing more...
Absolutely right! Well, perhaps a bit more than mythology. Perhaps nationalistic war propaganda at its worst. The OT anyway. The NT I think represents the hope of a repressed and suffering people who wanted to believe their suffering and persecution were part of a divine plan. I would say my thoughts about the real Jesus are pretty much in line with Thomas Jefferson, who loved the morality but thought the miracles and resurrection etc. were all pure mythology.
lol you are absolutely right... what amazes me though is that people like jefferson and huygens were able to see pass religion and people living in A REAL AGE OF TECHNOLoGY can not see pass it... i guess the reason is ignorance...
People in general are more likely to believe in things that they want to believe rather than accept realities that they may not like as much but could arrive at with reason... However I am amazed that so many millions of Christians believe that they were created unable to follow the rules of their creator, and are only saved from eternal torment because this creator engaged in a brutal act of sacrificing himself... to himself... so that he would not be angry at them any more.
people are wasting their lives and wrecking their minds trying to make sense of writings that are most likely nothing more than mythology... I pity...
Not judging someone is like a doctor not telling a patient they have cancer...of course the doctor should do it professionally and it would be foolish on behalf of the patient to be mad at the doctor. Also saying people shouldn't judge is a judgment.
lowellkylewilliamson 1 week ago
Christians are commanded to judge yet not hypocritically. The whole "don't judge" cry is an attempt to make people feel guilty for helping you realize your sin so they might go away and you can continue sinning. I would be evil if I didn't warn people about their sin.
lowellkylewilliamson 1 week ago
I`m a fundamentalist and there is no reason for me to kill anyone or use any kind of violence, please. It is obvious in the Bible that most people will not believe and those who question God`s word are just natural human beings, they are not _more_ evil.
encii79 1 month ago
@encii79 I think you misunderstand Crossan. He even predicts that you would say you wouldn't kill anyone personally. What he is saying is that fundamentalism leads to a kind of carelessness to the wellbeing of other people who are not fundamentalists. If your vision is fixed on the next life, you may be content to vote for people who are dangerous because they might speed things up. It's a callousness towards unbelievers because they are not worth saving. It's meanness.
riverdaughter3 3 weeks ago
@riverdaughter3 Ok, there is a big difference in our view of fundamentalism. I understand his point but it holds only for a small group of people. For me the ideal is to even die FOR others and their salvation. The problem is that like people from completely different cultures, you can not understand all the meanings in the other persons worldview and experience. As a Christian fundamentalist I feel like a stranger and a hidden immigrant in this world.
encii79 6 days ago
@encii79 Well, then, you need to get out more.
I come from a family of Christian fundamentalists and Crossan is spot on. I know exactly what he's talking about and you do too. You guys need to knock it off. I don't want you to die for my salvation. I want you to alleviate suffering in THIS world and stop worrying about what's going to happen when you die. No, no, don't try to argue with me. I've heard it all already. Life is messy. Deal with it.
riverdaughter3 6 days ago
@riverdaughter3 I`m sorry, but you really are not in the position to judge me or my life which you know nothing about.
Ps. Perhaps you should check out Christian charity organizations that focus on alleviating suffering in this life all over the world.
encii79 5 days ago
@riverdaughter3 Okay, I did not mean to be rude to you. I see you come from a JW family. May we all focus more on alleviating the suffering of others.
encii79 5 days ago
whenever someone goes to the "men in the room" example i start to wonder. fundamentalism isnt about temperments! its about principles. principles never over-ride the sacrificial love and love towards enemy comandments of the Gospel. we need to note that one man's opinion over what is spiritual and physical does not take precidence if truly the Holy Spirit indwells us. Hm, only spiritual understanding makes this world come alive. There is a battle and a judgement, sorry bout it mr. crossan, WRONG
dbenjenks 1 month ago
@dbenjenks The essence of Crossan's critique of fundamentalism is the judgmentalism that comes with it. The fundamentalist believes in passing judgement. The fact that you see a person who is an unbeliever as an enemy is just what he is talking about. While it may be true that god judges, you have already judged. That leads to carelessness for the wellbeing of other people.
riverdaughter3 3 weeks ago
there is no hell.
zenli3 1 month ago
I cannot stand the fundies. A true Christian would never want someone else to go to Hell for being wrong and would gladly give their eternal life for that other persons Hell sentence.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
Hitler did not hate all Jews....John D Crossan does not give right information. Up to 150,000 of Hitler's favoured officials were zionist Jews. Hitler, funded by Rothschild, killed the non zionist Jews (Orthodox Jews) and he encouraged the zionist Jews to go to Palestine where they were funded by Rothschild to flatten towns and villages and kill defenceless Palestinian people who had lived there thousands of years and thus building the infamous state of Israel.
JillAngie3 2 months ago
@JillAngie3 Yes but which Jews were they? He allowed for torture. Sounds Torquemada to me.
Mysterwright 2 months ago
@JillAngie3 Sources?
Bigwave2003 1 month ago
@Bigwave2003 There are many sources if you Google! But check out Eustace Mullins and a video titled:-
Eustace Mullins (RIP) about Zionists, Holocaust, Rothshild, Israel, Judaism
let me know your thoughts.
JillAngie3 1 month ago
Epic video :0
Anthonyofthedesert 2 months ago
"The sirens of decay will infiltrate the faith fanatics" philipnute com
zsezse215 3 months ago
He is wise beyond our times.
MobiusCoin 4 months ago
John Dominic Crossan, unless he has changed, is NOT a Christian. He denies the Deity Of Christ..and the Resurrection of Christ.
kantucky 4 months ago
@RavenofShalott lol calling out against hypocrites is in line with scriptures Jesus and Paul called out hypocrites because they were leading the people away from the narrow path. Just to be sure we are on the same page I did not call John Crossan or you a hypocrite but they are Christians hypocrites around the world that is not judging someone but rather called it for what it is and I'll have no problem someone call out on me hypocrisy if need be if they had a valid point we have to call out sin
JCYTT1I3777 4 months ago
@RavenofShalott You quoted John 3:16 but are you aware that it is impossible to believe in God and continue to live in sin ? How about reading Philippians 1:15-18 ? Well I don't know about all the preachers out there (I know there are many Christians hypocrites out there who got caught doing the contrary to their preaching but I think in general those who preach, they preach about sins they do not live in since if they live with a particular sin it must be Ok to them so then to others also...
JCYTT1I3777 4 months ago
@RavenofShalott lol I do wear cotton-polyester but I do not eat bacon !!! lol the idea behind my comment is that so called "small commandments" or "secondary commandments" in human perspectives are not to be neglected and we have many examples in the Bible of such cases. My encounter with fundamentalist on the internet and in real life, they speak mostly about these "lost commandments" in the secular World no longer in the constitution it has nothing to do with their interpretations !!!
JCYTT1I3777 4 months ago
@RavenofShalott I agree on the U.S. part, but they are out there some congregation that are "true to the faith" although few in number as Jesus said + remember that true followers of Christ such as Priest, Pastor, evangelicals, fundamentalist, preachers... knows pretty well when preaching against sin and unrighteousness we always preach for ourselves first then to the masses just as Paul and James stated in their letters, preachers and teachers will be judge and be accountable more strictly !!!
JCYTT1I3777 4 months ago
@RavenofShalott lol first of all the so called "standards" are not my own nor the fundamentalist standards but rather God's standards, believers disagree on theology but when it comes to morality all "True believers in the faith" knows to differentiate right from wrong there is no room for interpretation ! He misrepresent fundamentalist by speaking about the minority who thinks like that + Paul meant that when you come to Christ you no longer need the law since you are no longer a transgressor!
JCYTT1I3777 4 months ago
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shieldsff 4 months ago
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shieldsff 4 months ago
When Jesus was on the Earth 2000 years ago, the religious fundamentalists wouldn't even let Him in their churches. So He preached outdoors. Then they were jealous of the huge crowds who gathered to listen to Him.
eastariel 4 months ago
Professor Crossan,
I love your book, "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography."
You really know a lot about Jesus.
eastariel 5 months ago
I attend the church of Christian music, but I also love mainstream music, such as:
"I'm going to make a change for once in my life. It's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right." ~ Michael Jackson
From his place in Heaven, Michael Jackson is still making a difference, still making it right, for us here on Earth.
Love one another. To love others, begin by loving yourself. Try to see yourself through God's eyes; then you'll see how beautiful you are, how worthy of love.
eastariel 5 months ago
As the human race advances/evolves, I really believe that all religion will cease to exist. It's just a matter of time... We need to hold on to the teachings of the spiritual leaders of the world (current as well as those of the past) and let go of the nonsense. Even the word "God" is a loaded word today because it means so many different things to so many different people. Can't we simply love one another and do good in the world? Unconditional love is God evolving - and enough to live by.
maccalennonstarr 5 months ago
Modern Ecumencial Church agrees with Professor Crossan's concerns with religious fundamentalism and proposes an open minded (and open hearted "modern religion" as an alternative to sectarian conservatives that dominate traditional religion. We invite people to visit our church website (google modern ecumenical church) and consider our 10 Central Concepts for a modern religion
ModernEcumenicalChur 5 months ago
I H8 Fundamentalists and Evangelists and so does my mom and my sisters and probably step-dad too! :)
terceldude 5 months ago
@Ravenof OK I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah might or might not refer to homosexuality conducts but it is clear that homosexuality is a sin, it does matter if it talks about it 1 time or 1000 time just as bestiality there are only few references but still is a sin which people must be aware of it not forcing it down your throat but sharing the real biblical message, of course as Jesus said it you'll be despised and hated for it in this sinful generation
JCYTT1I3777 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Modern Ecumenical Church supports the work of J,D.C. as a worthy and considered argument for tolerance.
The church invites people to consider that a modern ecumenical religion can be beneficial.
for more information, we invite people to visit the our website
ModernEcumenicalChur 6 months ago 2
I do respect John but everything he said in that interview is completely nonsense. Preaching the Word of God and calling out sin as you understand it to your surrounding; in no means makes you hateful of others who don't obey your interpretation, I'm sure He will have no problem that anyone speaks out against murder, stealing or lying but when it comes to speak against sexual immorality, homosexuality or abortion now you are a fundamentalist because not all Christians agree on that matter ???
JCYTT1I3777 6 months ago
(was not ready to post) ...the obe that is threatening to do away with the "fundamentalists" in the room. We who are Bible literaliists and can be called fundamentalists for it, are the ones who know that we need to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. We are not the ones rattling a saber against you.t
mcfirefly3 7 months ago
Your side, Crossan, is the one that is actually threatening to do aw
mcfirefly3 7 months ago
There is a "genocidal germ" in saying "you better get rid of what is distinctive about Christianity, i.e. Jesus, or else it will not be allowed to exist. This is what Crossan said on TV a few years ago. That germ is likely to erupt into genocidal action since it has the intolerant "or else" attached to it.
mcfirefly3 7 months ago
It's hard to shake the faith of a fundamentalist bible believing Christian. That's why the devil speaks against it so often. New Testament professors are holding hands with
the anti-christs!It's best to know what God says,not professors!
vrghiks 8 months ago
Listen to God's word,not mans'!
vrghiks 8 months ago
Crosson is as fundamental in his views as anyone. He seems to indicate that the truth cannot be known... Does he know that? He says fundamentalists say that others are wrong. Does he think this is wrong? Every argument he makes can be turned against his own position... Hitler said the Jews were a virus infecting the people. Does Crosson think fundamentalists are a virus infecting the people.
The question is, does truth exist, and if so, what is the truth. Crosson does not speak to this.
robertvroom 8 months ago
I love this guy, even when I think he's wrong. He makes me think!!
Ninure 8 months ago
I simply don't have a sufficient number of thumbs to promote this vid as much as it should be. Excellent, excellent post!
MsGingergingercat 8 months ago
"Jesus as the Lamb of Ghod does not mean Mary Had a Little Lamb...." OMG, I just spilt milk from outta my nose! LOL!
MsGingergingercat 8 months ago
@MsGingergingercat And I almost spit tea all over my keyboard...
Ninure 8 months ago
What people need to do is stop worrying about.... I belong to a Independent Fundamental Baptist church in Tenn. Im also a preacher. I know Jesus didnt have four legs. But look at the old testament, a lamb was a sacrifice... Guys like this educated person are confusing people. Im not changing to please people. Im set in my ways. GOD LOVING WAYS. Learn what fundamentalism is before you bash it. People make us out to be haters...... Woe unto the man whom the offense cometh.....
ProCraftLp 8 months ago
Again, he's making a slippery slope fallacy. One can say fundamentalism is so potentially dangerous that fundamentalists don't have a right to exist.
Sage80 9 months ago
The funny thing is that Crossan is a fundamentalist in his own right.
Sage80 9 months ago
"could" "could" the hypothetical theory of "could", highly enterprising indeed
COMMUNISTPHILOSOPHY 10 months ago
If all christians and, indeed all people of faith, where like this then religion would stop being so detrimental to society.
Life is about seeking answers that we may never truely discover, religion is about making eveything fit into a predetermined picture of what is true and what is not. The ammount of people who are terrified of this man simply justifies the claim that people are afraid of not knowing. Of asking questions but recieving ambiguous answers at best.
Amarkcalledme 11 months ago
All religions are man made institutions to gain support of the poor, weak of mind and the needy to use them for power in the form of governments. I don't even know why intelligent people debate this...... If you want to believe in something dig deep within your hearts and pray to whats inside.
mooshead66 11 months ago
@mooshead66 I understand you...religions are man made to a large extent. But does that mean God is man made?
1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo God in the way it is portrayed IS manmade. if you want to find your true God dig deep within your heart and you will find him. Your time on this earth is between you and the person you are.
mooshead66 8 months ago
@mooshead66 I would hesitate to say that relgion is for the poor,"weak of mind "and needy...it seems you (and i assume you consider yourself not to be "poor,needy or weak of mind") consider yourself to be one who is at a higher level at some sort than poor believers. people like MLK Jr,Gandhi,Bono,JD Crossan,Dorthy Day,Rumi,Tutu,etc,etc,etc,..these people,weak of mind they may be , are people who looked inside and still found God. We are not all on the same journey, live and let live. peace!
1macboo 8 months ago
the problem with this argument is that it implies the fundamentalist judgment of others comes from the fundamentalists themselves, whereas a literalist would not do this. the problem is that there are often specific scriptures dealing with worldly judgment and punishment (stoning gays, etc.), that a supposed literalist would adopt without inventing anything at all himself.
kswindl 11 months ago
the problem with this argument is that it implies the fundamentalist judgment of others comes from the fundamentalists themselves, whereas a literalist would not do this. the problem is that there are often specific scriptures dealing with worldly judgment and punishment (stoning gays, etc.), that a supposed literalist would adopt without inventing anything at all himself.
kswindl 11 months ago
That seems like a slippery slope fallacy. Just because I believe that to believe that the physical Resurrection of Christ is essential to Christian belief, does not mean that I want to destroy others. Crossan fails to mention that fundamentalist Christians believe that but for the Grace of God they deserve hell, so they would want to correct a fellow man's error and save him. They would want to share the grace they have received. It might hold that other types of fundamentalism do this.
skrich2 1 year ago
@TranshumanCyborg Components of the self are not internal and external they are all internal and the projections of self are external and not all projections are correct. Fundamentalist Christianity posed Satan as something external, and this is why I believe Crosson is giving this short lecture on the dangers of Fundamentalism because those projections can be dangerous to others.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@TranshumanCyborg What culture is this? It sure is not the Christian culture. All religions have done is separated the spirit from the body, basically saying their is a separation between the two, but there is no separation. The duality of the religions CAUSE that separate thinking. What we have to do is join them back together. We are a spirit having a physical experience, this IS us. We have to take responsibility for our actions in the physical experience and realize there IS no duality.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@TranshumanCyborg Once you realize what the use of the ego is, then the ego is no longer a problem. The ego is the memory function of our brain. Thus why it causes such havoc...it remembers every thing, every feeling that we have had. You can not get rid of the ego, you just have to put it in it's proper position and not live by it.
Just a question though...what do you think 1 Corinthians 5:5 means?
changingmyself 1 year ago
@TranshumanCyborg There is a book that you would gain from reading called Satanic Ritual Abuse by Colin A. Ross, it sounds like the book is about the abuse but it is not only that, it also describes how "Satan" came about and why. Once you realize that, you might decide you do not want to use Jesus as a model because the ideology segments the person into halves instead of a whole body and mind as one.
changingmyself 1 year ago
he's right its soo true
yumyum101able 1 year ago
@TranshumanCyborg A model, a belief.. yes. Facts.... no.
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara "Society FORCES their beliefs on Christians and we are sick and tired of it. We will NOT put up with it"
Society does not force anything on a person, unless you allow it to happen.
naneux 1 year ago
@naneux Basically, what Miabelara is saying is that society makes her/him realize that the evil is inside instead of an outside force that she can name "Satan" and she doesn't like that idea. lol This proves that Christians do not want to take responsibility for their own actions thus why they have always needed a "scapegoat". Jesus was the scapegoat thus why he was called the LAMB of god, before that they always used real lambs blood.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@changingmyself Maybe some critical thought might help...
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara and no god is not good. During hirricane katrina many elderly folk and children drowned in their attics while praying to god, simultaneously, the survivors were outside an attic without rising water above their neck, praising the lord for saving THEM. How do we know who god saved? Why would god kill the elderly and children, you are not understanding that your god resides in paradox, either he wanted to kill the children and elderly by drowining them, or he didnt care to save'em.
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara Its not a personal assumption that jesus did not exist. The assumption on your behalf is that he did exist. Jesus never existed by virtue of your lack to prove he did. THis is where you have a duty to be honest to yourself and admit, you dont know if jesus existed, you dont know if god exists and your entire religion and/or practice has been based on something that may or may not be true.
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara The good news! ha! Thats like picking the good parts out of the communist manifesto and ommitting the oppressive language. Jesus teaches that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you too will go to hell. You sin every morning by shaving, putting on clothes, eating that extra piece pizza et cetera et cetera.
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara God is good? HE CONDONES RAPE. God is good? HE CONDONES CHILD SACRIFICE.
What good god would condone SLAVERY?
Again, WAKE UP. YOUR GOD IS MALEVOLENT.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@changingmyself Thats why I remain in the sidelines.... lol... no one wants to have the god talk...
naneux 1 year ago
@miabelara Who wrote that book Miabelara? Who wrote the Gospels?
Do you know if the people that wrote it were good or bad? Is that not called BLIND FAITH? That is what I would call it. You know NOTHING about the people that wrote that book. NOT ONE THING. Only what was written in the book about those people..who supposedly wrote the book.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara But your BELIEF says that if people do not believe, they go to HELL.
You really think SOCIETY forces it's beliefs on people? What about the Inquisitions? How many people have died as the result of Christians spreading their beliefs? Miabelara, I am part Native American. Do you REALLY want to claim that Society pushes their beliefs onto people after what CHRISTIANS did to my ancestors? Do you know that Christians stole Native American children and sent them to Christian homes?
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara You say my statements have no foundation, but what do yours REALLY have? You have a book written 1800 years ago by people whom we DO NOT know, nor do we know the reason why they wrote it. THINK ABOUT IT.
Why is the word VIRGIN in the bible so many times? Do you think that a REAL god would be so hung up on the virginity of a woman when there was people that were doing 100 times worse than losing their virginity like... ritualistic MURDER?
Get REAL. WAKE UP.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara No, and this is what you aren't getting Miabelara, he might be YOUR truth, but he is not truth to others. I was a Christian for 30+ years, then I looked around me and saw...wait, these people are not GOOD people. They were fundamentalist Christians, who wanted a one world religion, who FORCED their beliefs onto others, just like you are attempting to do now. You SAY that people have a choice, but all the while in the back of your head, you WANT them to go to Hell for non belief.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara Read the book called Satanic Ritual Abuse By Psychiatris Colin A. Ross where he explains what Satan really means. The reason I know that there are no other laws are because if there was some god that needed me to know his laws, he would have told me about them personally and not relied on some men thousands of years before me, thousands of miles from me, to write them down, and translate them, other wise it would mean that your god is malevolent. Which he was.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara Yes, I have came to the realizations of eternal truths, the eternal truth is that we are ALL one, made by one creator of the universe, who gave us enough room to evolve. The only real laws that the creator put in place are the universal laws and the laws of physics. We judge ourselves, there is no Satan, the bible was written by men attempting to explain something to replace something else, and Jesus was most likely not even a real man. Live and let live is the REAL truth.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara So you want others to live by your beliefs? Are you willing to live by others beliefs?
This is why Professor Crossan says what he says...
You have things ass backwards, you want Atheists and Christ haters to follow Jesus teachings because you want them to change their ways because they are YOUR ways...because you are a fundamentalist. Please listen to what he says.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@miabelara The reason he is explaining this is because virtually everything that is known about Jesus was changed so many times in the 1st 100 years after his supposed death, that no one knows if Jesus existed or not. Yes, fundamentalists do want to get rid of their opponents, the fact that you say "opponents" proves it...we are not your enemies. We just do not believe in the same thing you do.
changingmyself 1 year ago
Who is evil? An evil person is someone who disobeys Jesus Christ.
RobertMOdell 1 year ago
Thank you , Professor Crossan for this excellent lesson. Fundamentalism in any way, shape or form is extremely dangerous...
Adrien J. Alpendre PhD
Adrien26able 1 year ago
one thing i find hard to understand is the readiness with which some people grab and hold onto the teachings of the bible or for that matter any religious' holy book'for the love of fuck we all know or should kolw that they were written in a time through nobodys fault people were highly superstitious and uneducated,now we are supposed to be educated and we have insane people trying to pull the world back to them days and are getting away with ti and they actually expect to be respected for it
megamus3 1 year ago
If a person "believes" much of the bible then that person is a stooge. Demonstrate your God first before you "believe" the fairytales. Gods are unproven supernatural stories for the simple-minded to believe.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
Christianity, the Abrahamic God, and the Bible are actually three different phenomena that were conceived in three completely distinct historical epochs. They were tied together by the burgeoning Catholic Church when it was consolidating its power.
Jesus couldn't have been a fundamentalist because he didn't have the Bible to follow. He didn't know he was founding Christianity. I think he would be appalled at what people who profess to be his followers do in his name in the 21st century.
kodiakfred140 1 year ago
@kodiakfred140 *Sigh* There's always someone like you who knows everything. Ha ha ha :D
BloodOfRayne 1 year ago
This clown Crossan is a ding Bat who got lost ! He feels the bible a judging tool for him to decide who goes to heaven or not ? i su5re hope he is not in any possion of teaching the words of Jesus for we will all be heading for hell if we listen to him ! Lord help us if this is what we have being tought to us by what he thinks ! he must think we are all here to judge man and not follow Jesus ?
turtle4aire 1 year ago
Wow nice, just call a fundamentalist a hitler to piss them off. Lol
Essa698 1 year ago
"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass;
he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,
and ye shall have them."
Mark 11:22-24
rydorzirix 1 year ago
The problem is confusing people with their sins. Jesus seperated the person from their sins, saw the person in the image of God, and elimated the sin, not the person. The way Jesus defended the protestute was an example...let the one without sin cast the first stone. Jesus also taught not to fight evil with more evil. You love your enemy and bless and do good to them instead of hating them. That stops the cycle of violence. He laid his life down on the cross, took the punishment on our behalf.
dawnthi 1 year ago 5
@dawnthi What a silly story.
divinegod102 10 months ago
@dawnthi Im agnostic but im aggre with you !Lets end the war beetwen atheism and fundamentalism. Accept every as it is .sex color even if he/she is a homo lesbian bi beliefs or lack of belief. Dont be racist. I pretty sure Atheist agnostics deists christians buddhist muslims hindus etc. All can accept and LOVE each other. And we will build a beutifull earth for our children. with nature with love. PEace and love.
Ps: I think the TRUTH is written down in us where no greedy man can change it!
HUNAdamus94 9 months ago
@dawnthi Can you explain to me how he separated man from their sins? I mean, Men still sin. Men sin all the time. Some things I don``t even consider a sin. Unless you`re committing purgery a white lie really doesn`t do much to anyone. In fact a lie can be a very good thing at times. And coveting, that`s what the economy is based on, and coveting a wife is impossible to free yourself from. If a woman is drop dead gorgeous, you`ll think about her. I think not raping shoulda been on the list.
IsolationInstigation 6 months ago
@IsolationInstigation: Jesus separated us from our sins when He bore them on the cross. Now He sees us as without them, because He has borne them. It is mysterious, but we are to enter into it by faith in Him, because what the Bible has said about it, the Spirit of God has shown our hearts is true, so we believe Him.
Mcfirefly2 6 months ago
@Mcfirefly2 Not to start any kind of shit storm, as often, these debates tend to go that way, but I have a hard time separating Jesus from regular men. This might really offend you, but I don`t see a difference between him and Joseph Smith. I mean, Smith was able to convince thousands of people that he was a prophet. Although we can clearly tell from his prior track record that definitely wasn`t true. But, the fact that the crucifixion was so long ago, and the only documented evidence is a book.
IsolationInstigation 6 months ago
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The great flaw here is that he evolutionary ethics of Hitler&his ilk, have NOTHING TO DO with any form of valid Christianity nor the teachings of JESUS CHRIST in the BIBLE. To argue like this& attempt to deploy this analogy is convoluted in the extreme. Jesus made clear that the basics of the Law for all men is to LOVE. Love God with all your heart, mind & strength. And right next to that is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as yourself. Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc..spoke & ACTED ONLY O F HATING GOD & OTHERS
shieldsff 4 months ago
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@IsolationInstigation: Jesus separated us from our sins when He bore them on the cross. Now He sees us as without them, because He has borne them. It is mysterious and profound, but we are to enter into it by faith in Him, because what the Bible has said about it, the Spirit of God has shown our hearts is true, so we believe Him.
Mcfirefly2 6 months ago
I don't believe in God or the supernatural, but I very much applaud what this intelligent and generous Christian has to say. I also enjoyed the respectful, non-accusing tone in which he said it. That's the danger with inerrant truth. If you are one hundred percent sure you're right, there's far less reason to allow people to disagree. Fundamentalist religion used to be pretty minor in America. If fundamentalists had less influence, many of the arguments by Anti-theists would loose their force
ororc 1 year ago
Crossan is right on here. I haven't researched him enough to know all his beliefs but he makes a very good point here against fundamentalism. It needed to be said. Thank you, Mr. Crossan.
EricDevince 1 year ago
there is EVERYTHING to stop me from going out and killing anytone who denies the Bible as the word of God, namely the LAW of God.
those who kill in God;s name defy the Word of God to do it.
Crossan does not know his subject.
Besides, if he says fundamentalism is dangerous he is saying by implication that it is anti god. does that by his own definition make him a fundamentlist?
Strefanash 1 year ago
I think this is a misunderstanding of fundamentalism. It surrenders to the fundamentalists their notion that they believe the literality of the Bible.
But fundamentalists do not believe in the love of God, nor the forgiveness of sin. and any fundy who believs in murdering those who promotes evil actually defies the literal bible which says that God alon is the judge.
fundamentalism is comitment to biblical truth without belief in biblical truth, and teh distortion that follows
Strefanash 1 year ago
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I don't think it's right to equate intense disagreement or even puritanical attitudes with genocidal tendencies. bndkllr2 seems to believe that people who find homosexual practice immoral would execute homosexuals if given the power and opportunity. It's a slippery slope... irrationally cynical and paranoid of theological conservatives. One could easily turn this thinking back on itself. If you find fundamentalism very threatening to the faith, maybe you're unconsciously genocidal, too...?
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
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ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
The dangers of fundamentalism?
1. Fundies often kill for their beliefs.
2. Fundies aren't very fun :(
3. It's dangerous to live ina country where approximately a third of the population is obsessed with a book written 2000 years ago, and they believe it to be true.
Botany101 1 year ago 2
Earth School has college students and kindergarteners. This is "Be Kind to Kindergarteners" week. On second thought, make that a decade.
eastariel 1 year ago
This is exactly the same thing the secular and non-religious people are afraid of... that unquestioning faith in an ideology will lead to unacceptable violence because it is somehow God's will.
TheMrDeist 1 year ago 9
watch: "911 Missing Links" "Dancing Israelis on 911" "USS Liberty Dead in the Water"
jayezzo 1 year ago
I will say one more thing, and then I will shut up. Unfortunately, we have allowed the media to abscond with a perfectly determinate description and apply it to murderous extremist. And you, dear sir, are caving to the battle of identity and renaming your religious position under the pressure of a PERCEIVED nomenclature. When the word "Christian" receives a similar negative conotation, will you again acquiesce. The essence of fundamentalism is to defend your beliefs in the face of opposition.
mark0454 1 year ago
The one person in the room that thinks he has the truth is not a fundamentalist, he is a psychotic. Christian fundamentalism is to say that certain doctrines of scripture are literal, and uncompromising, and are generally specific to sotoriology, i.e. virgin birth, death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To transpose this aproach to creationism, homosexuality, abortion, escatoloty,etc is a misapplication of the principle of fundamentalism and leads to extremism.
mark0454 1 year ago
Good evening. I hope you are well. Your logic is entirely unscholarly. To allow the Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist church, and the like, to define fundamentalism is to allow the drivers of the Daytona 500 to define tailgating. You are allowing the extremist to define a cogent religious principle. The word "fundamentalism" was originaly used to describe a literal rather than an allegorical/metaphoric interpretation of scripture. The word is prefectly discriptive. Your use is in error.
mark0454 1 year ago
I'm just about sick of crazy ass religions! It's 2010 wake the fuck up and think for your self! There is no God only you! Stop hurting others with your lies!
xaviervonrottie 1 year ago
@ThazuaBlackarrow: I don't know were you live, but if you live in America you can "God Bless America" for very fact you can say what you have without fear of consequence. But, there are many places in our world where you would probably get arrested, maybe tried or just convicted cause they can, then maybe you'd get thrown in some stinking hole, or simply shot so they wouldn't have to feed you. Or, they could just shoot you in the first place and not have to go though any of that.
chilehead1953 1 year ago
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1macboo 1 year ago
On the other hand, we were told man is naturally good for having a spark of divinity(modernism) so we must rescue(save) fromoppressive society in the social gospel. After two world wars-this was shattered as these two wars reflected the fundamentalist teaching-man is evil or man is a cruel god. On the other hand-how many peoiple have Christian fundamentalists actually advocated killing those who disagree-last I checked-Catholicism was more responsible for this compared to fundamentalism
daveme7 1 year ago
As a fundamentalist-it is always even in metaphorically has a literal understanding. Christ death on the cross-and the literal understanding is the thousands of lambs which were sacrificed as a type of Christ aspointing to Christ.
On the other hand, I wander hyow many American Christian fundamentalists actually killed someone because of fundamentalism? J Frank Norris is pronably the only fundamentalist perhaps you can accuse of this.
daveme7 1 year ago
Jesus doesn't HAVE TO be divine to be the Son of God.
Vitusvonatzinger 1 year ago
And I could pose the question: what do you think our society should do with these fundamentalist? See with a broad generalistic stroke this man is suggesting that a fundamentalist's concept promotes the "genocidal germ", and the danger in that is: Societies cannot tolerate intolerance and as such these fundamentalists must be dealt with severely. So now we have another sort of genocide, the riddance of Christian fundamentalists. .
dalerob66 1 year ago
@dalerob66 you just made a huge jump there, he never said we should get rid of fundamentalists somehow, like killing them, or saying they are evil, he's saying they are WRONG, and arguing against it with the purpose of changing fundamentalists to non fundamentalists, and convincing others that fundamentalism is wrong
jmrut1992 1 year ago
@dalerob66
A big group hug.
Remember that all we are dealing with is mental patients. That's what fundamentalist religious people are. (A far-gone "Star Wars" fanatic should be considered the same way)
I would never advocate the extermination of those with mental problems - especially when their brains are capable of being cured. (Many an uplifting story here on YouTube)
They should be incarcerated though, until fit to re-enter society.
jazzx251 1 year ago
its funny, but those posts below saying "be careful of Crossan, he's dangerous" is making his point...if he's dangerous, then we should do something about him and people that think like him...hmmmm
ogon7777 1 year ago
You Go, John Dominic Crossan! He's absolutely right. There is an underlying nature of fundamentalism that seeks the elimination of all those who don't have the truth, if there was a real opportunity. My niece is fundamentalist and she believes that if we had a Christian state, that all the old testament moral laws should be reinstated; that gays should be executed, rebelling youths stoned, etc. Pretty scary, don't cha think?
meangreen4321 1 year ago 2
Bweee! Be careful!!! Crossan is the devil!!! Don't listen to him, turn away from intellect, shun knowledge, ignore biblical scholarship!
Keep worshiping Christ, dudes. It keeps you from following Jesus.
aikido7 1 year ago
Jesus is the perfect lamb of God, he had to be to be our atonement for sin. Be careful of John Dominic Crossan's remarks. He has no use or need for Jesus. If you love and worship Jesus, be very careful of Mr. Crossan and the Jesus Seminar. John Dominic Crossan's remarks are trying and he trys his best to cancel any remarks that support Jesus as the Son of God.
durbinjeff 1 year ago
@durbinjeff You've proved his point, lol. If you have God on your side then why are you afraid of this guy and the Jesus Seminar? Are you not strong enough in your faith so you have to demean a fellow Christian? Is God not strong enough to withstand any falsehoods against Him/Her? Perhaps you should start believing and trusting in Christ. Just a thought.
MassLiberal1 1 year ago
@durbinjeff If you have God on your side then why are you afraid of this guy and the Jesus Seminar? Are you not strong enough in your faith so you have to demean a fellow Christian? Is God not strong enough to withstand any falsehoods against Him/Her? Perhaps you should start believing and trusting in Christ. Just a thought.
MassLiberal1 1 year ago
Well then I guess we've done a whole 360degrees then. Don't you wish we were all "peaceful extremists"???...lol Extreme Peace... hey, that sounds great!
BXJAV 1 year ago
VERY well said & clarified. I can see this type of process happening in a couple of fundamentalist Christians that I know. It is frightening to see their personalities undergo this rigid & unbending change. And they certainly don't seem to be happy - only very angry.
Shellianne 1 year ago
Well this perspective in itself is an extremist perspective against anyone who believes that they indeed DO have the only truth. If I'm forced to have to believe that others can have the truth, then what's the purpose of having any individual world view???...I can be a peaceful extremeist!
BXJAV 1 year ago
that "others" also includes you. it also seems then by your own definition... Crossan is also a peaceful extremist, you and Crossan have much in common.
arcaenum 1 year ago
Well put Mr. Crossan
nobodyspecial222 1 year ago
very good explanation...
hepatitis 1 year ago
If having faith all that matters, then satan should have a full priced ticket to heaven. he believes in jesus and god just like fundamentalists but he hates them. love and acts of kindness and doing good works is the key to becoming a true christian. faith alone will not save you! it takes good works to get to heaven. if you don't believe that, then satan ought to go to heaven too right? i already explained it to you, GOOD WORKS IS THE PATH TO HEAVEN it will be a challenging road! it's not easy.
henf5671 1 year ago
@henf5671 Deuteronomy 21:18-21
vibrant151 1 year ago
okay so a rebellious son continues to disobey his father and mother even though he is punished. so they bring him in to be stoned to death. that's more or less chapter 21 of Deuteronomy verses 18-21 is about. what does this have anything to do with what i said before?
henf5671 1 year ago
the christian creation stories are not meant to be taken literally. they are parables with a message for people to live by. they also often quote the bible pretending like they know everything about the bible when in fact they are the least knowledgeable people about the bible. they only quote selected verses from the bible. it takes a lot more work than quoting the bible to be a good christian. it's called doing good works and living by the golden rule. it seems like they're all parrots.
henf5671 1 year ago
When a Fundamentalist opens his Bible, He says; "Scriptures, Be Silent! ... I'm interpreting." ~~~ Not a good way to gain knowledge ~~~~
CosmicFork 2 years ago 19
This makes sense. We can already see the consequences of Christian Fundamentalism in Uganda, where legislation is being passed to execute gay people. Whether the fundies like it or not, THAT is the inevitable consequence if enough people adopt their views on homosexuality.
bndkllr2 2 years ago 8
A new holocaust --against homosexuals-- is breeding in Uganda. Will the Catholic Church speak out against it?
amoxtlacatl 1 year ago
@bndkllr2
Good point
inquiry10 11 months ago
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Cyyael 2 years ago
Saying that someone who believes in the bible literally is prone to violence is a huge stretch and irresonsible. I'm a not a fundamentalist but sometimes anti-fundamentalism is just as scary as the former.
ronpaulthegrey 2 years ago
i think the
ballsackus and titsmackus =marksackus
Imthemastermind007 2 years ago
I disagree with the idea that all fundamentalists are wannabe genocidalists. Some of them are really nice people. But they cannot stomach their isolation from mainstream society; if you think you are the guardians of the truth and the chosen ones, been seen as fringe kooks is not at all comfortable.
This desperation is what may lead some to do desperate things. But they're not stupid. A lot of them understand that murder and terror will not help their cause.
LordBifford 2 years ago
This is a load of crap! No fundamental Christian would desire to kill non-Christians. That idea is against Christian teaching. People love to hate Christians with the freedoms Christian ideals propagated. Read a Bible, learn something.
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
@AmericanRelic2hear
"No fundamental Christian would desire to kill non-Christians. "
Don't even try. Maybe you should read a history book, learn something.
pantsempire 2 years ago
Actually, I'm a history buff-love it. I know their have been people who do horrendous things under the guise of religion. That does not fall on the shoulders of truth. The actions of such people are not exhorted nor condoned by Christian doctrine. Christianity is a set a ideals that are embraced as they way to follow GOD's will. If someone does not agree with those ideals, they can follow the ideals they believe more accurately honor GOD.
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
It is erroneous to fault true Christian teachings for the actions of obvious heretics.
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
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MassLiberal1 2 years ago
Do you hate Christians or the GOD they represent? Either way, YOUR extreme resentment renders you incapable of reason or logical dialog regarding this matter.
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
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MassLiberal1 2 years ago
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MassLiberal1 2 years ago
God bless America and those who keep the faith. :) The very happiest of Holidays to all!
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
@AmericanRelic2hear Why "God bless America"? What has America done to be worth being blessed? The illegal war the US started and has been continuing since 2001, which kills allies, enemies and civilians alike, the corruption and greed and everything people just love to point at and laugh at the US for, the ignorance and bigotry towards other people (IE Mexicans, Muslims, etc.), the overly proud American "Patriot"? Does not sound bless-worthy to me.
ThazuaBlackarrow 1 year ago
Fundamentalism is very dangerous, especially when it comes to religion.
I only wish the Christian Right, and so-callled Islamic and other religious extremists would hear this message.
God Bless You, Sir.
kellybob1966 2 years ago
Well said words in this video... perfect description of the mindset of Christian fundies that want to bomb Iran and every other Arab country...
Thankfully, tis God Himself who is in control, so even though mankind may make its plans, God's will - will be done in the end.
Peace to all
ChristianNewsWatch 2 years ago
You are wrong. Christians do not want to bomb Iran and every other Arab country. Only the terrorists in them. You might consider going to one of those non-Christian countries. You know-make that a "better" place. LOL
AmericanRelic2hear 2 years ago
when you think about it, even in the worlds religions - humanity is mirrored in them. We can all cling to what we 'want' to believe to be true, whatever it is. For me, God is simply metaphor for the wonder of life. Some are scared by life, death and themselves so cling to things. But i believe the core of religion - is much needed and as much a part of the universe as a rock on mars. Love for others, compassion and humble open mindedness to reality, is the true way to help you here and now.
NoAddedAnything 2 years ago
The here and now is all that matters to me in religion. Forget the afterlife, or nothingness if thats the case. There is nothing to fear. But live a good life while your here. Christ, God, Buddha, whatever, are all storys, to ignite the good side and teach us to embrace the bad with a big warm hug - knowing everything will die why do we really worry and live in fear so much? let go of it all and just accept the middle path of wonder, wisdom, and unselfish love.
NoAddedAnything 2 years ago
all religious people are deep down fundametalists....
msole06 2 years ago
msole -- all religious people are most certainly NOT "deep-down fundamentalists." It is cynical to label them as such, but it is also irresponsible and false. I suspect there is more possibility in religion than you have imagined.
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago
yea you are right... but, if you TAKE YOUR RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES SERIOUS, YOU HAVE TO BE A FUNDAMENTALIST...
msole06 2 years ago
I understand your point and where you're coming from. But to take religious scriptures seriously is not the same as taking them LITERALLY. More liberal Christians and Jews, for instance, discount much of what the Bible says, or view parts of it as metaphor... I, however, do take MY religious principles literally, but I'm not a Christian. Yet take a look -- I doubt you would brand me a fundamentalist. :)
uua (dot) org/visitors/6798.shtml
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago
ralph unless it says next to the text(this is a metaphor) i don't think you have the right to say rather it should be taking serious or not... if god is real, fundamentalists will be the only one saved. luckily god is not real.
msole06 2 years ago
msole, but religious liberals who still believe in God would tell you that the scriptures are subject to human error or that they're the work of people trying to understand God's will (not taking down dictation). Crossan's point in another video is that the God "imaged in Jesus" is a God of love and non-violence that is different from the one we see in the Old Testament.
Any religious language that deals with metaphysical ideas and places ("God," "Heaven") IS metaphorical. Footnote implied. :)
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago 2
hmm.... i suppose. but i think that when it comes to religion it is ahard for pople to interpret i personally see the bible ass jewish mythology, and believe it to be nothing more...
msole06 2 years ago
Absolutely right! Well, perhaps a bit more than mythology. Perhaps nationalistic war propaganda at its worst. The OT anyway. The NT I think represents the hope of a repressed and suffering people who wanted to believe their suffering and persecution were part of a divine plan. I would say my thoughts about the real Jesus are pretty much in line with Thomas Jefferson, who loved the morality but thought the miracles and resurrection etc. were all pure mythology.
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago 2
lol you are absolutely right... what amazes me though is that people like jefferson and huygens were able to see pass religion and people living in A REAL AGE OF TECHNOLoGY can not see pass it... i guess the reason is ignorance...
msole06 2 years ago
People in general are more likely to believe in things that they want to believe rather than accept realities that they may not like as much but could arrive at with reason... However I am amazed that so many millions of Christians believe that they were created unable to follow the rules of their creator, and are only saved from eternal torment because this creator engaged in a brutal act of sacrificing himself... to himself... so that he would not be angry at them any more.
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago
people are wasting their lives and wrecking their minds trying to make sense of writings that are most likely nothing more than mythology... I pity...
msole06 2 years ago
DEATH to fundamentalism
greyswans 2 years ago