Vagrant Story has an artificially raised difficulty spike with its final boss, which is obviously a good place for it. On your first playthough It has no weakness to any spell, weapon or technique you have access to. However unlike certain earlier boss fights It is susceptible to chain hits which adds fairness to the difficulty spike.
Speed Down doesn't do much, but speed does have a use outside of preemptive strikes. There were times later in the game where Stocke was a much higher level than anyone else in my party and as such was fast enough that he would go before an enemy, thereby separating his turn from those of my other party members. I've looked at their stats, and it seems to be because Stocke has a speed that is at least 4 higher than anyone else (except Aht, but she will always be fastest unless you neglect her).
Hey, couldn't you have used Stocke and Aht's second level mana breaks to speed the battle up a little bit? It seems like you were taking enough damage that they'd recharge reasonably quickly, and it's an ability that doesn't use any mana.
I think in the case of RPGs, the main challenge comes from figuring out what to do as opposed to actually doing. Granted, given how many battle you face, it doesn't take too long to get the basics down and learn enough to get by.
In any case, it seems a good portion of debate I've seen over the years comes as result of people disagreeing on what actually counts as legit challenge.
Do you know the game Yggdra Union - We'll never fight alone ? That game is unbelievably unforgiving it's truly horrible. But if you know the right strategies and wich battles are next it can be a bit easier. Still you'd have to be a strategic mastermind! Maybe you should check it sometime it's for the GBA and PSP.
HC, in real life tourniquets are used in hospitals for reducing circulation for just about any reason. Mostly they are used in blood collection to help enlarge the vein a little. Doing that often raises your blood pressure though, so extended use of them is not recommended. Clamps are normally used for hemorraging veins and whatnot.
I really like The Legend of Dragoon. The addition system is reliant on your reflexes but it isn't terribly bad either. There are a couple of tricky additions where you have to get timing down properly but it is still a very impressive game. I really enjoy the story of it too which is the thing that keeps bringing me back to replay it.
On the note of this game's difficulty, it's mostly because I honestly feel the battle-system is not quite finished. Only the opponents have a grid they can be moved on, only the opponents are effected by grid movements. It's really stacked in the players benefits right now. Make it so they take much less damage in the back-row in general, make assaults stronger the more grid spaces moved per assault. Give the NPCs a quick move option to change grid without completely wasting turns...
Man I really liked how HCB got quite "philosophical" during the spider boss fight. Really addressing rpg's as a whole was awesome to listen too, because I happened to agree with him for the most part. I really love balanced rpg's that require THINKING. Of course most rpg's can be made ridiculously simple by grinding. Skill is a very different thing in rpg's then in other genres. I haven't been watching this LP at all because I've never played the game, but I am very glad I tuned in to this one.
Persona 3 and 4, in fact, have THE WORST cheap shots!! The most particular ones being:
A) If YOU (the main character) die, it's game over; Your team cannot revive you.
B) In addition to [A], enemies have instant-death abilities they ARE NOT afraid to spam.
C) Having your weakness struck ALSO causes double-turns-- Which EASILY spells death.
The only thing they did to -remotely- balance these factors was in Persona 4, where they added "blocking" to ignore weaknesses, and "Team Save" actions.
@Nekarcos Golden Sun: The Lost Age has a horrid cheap shot on the optional "harder than the final boss" boss. Djinn storm, all your active party's djinn are now all in recovery. His formina sage attack now does excess of 1000 damage because all your stats lower accordingly.
@HCBailly I agree with @TheJBrown60. The persona games are hard but fun. I think you should add them to your list. Not sure how you feel about roguelikes though.
Also, just a question but would your mana bursts have helped at all this battle?
@HCBailly Persona 3+4..hardest rpgs ive ever played. Give those games a shot. Theyre hard unless ur overleveled which is hard to be bc the exp.gets scaled so much
@HCBailly You can use a tourniquet just to cut off blood supply while you take blood from a vein - like taking blood at the hospital - not necessarily to save a life from a lost limb - probably better with 'packing' the wound in that case anyway. - From your OCD Doctor follower.
I feel challenge in RPGs comes from the amount of chaos in the battles that changes your strategy in a manner that you can still win in unique ways. Oh and don't make bosses that aren't immune to deadly status effects *sleep*. The Spider would have been good if speed down did something and it had a weak multi-target skill causing you to need to beat it quicker with good decision making and levels, or a ton of levels.
I believe there are more uses for tourniquets than just stopping you from blood loss that would cause death. I believe they are used for IVs since I put them in IV start kits at my work.
IMO a hard RPG if something balanced but with loads of puzzles, Beyond the beyond is a hard rpg to me, Alundra is another hard one. Heres hoping you get to lets play those two ^^
Also... Limitations on your party... That reminds me of the game Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, where one dungeon has you not be able to equip anything Metallic (iirc: swords, most armor, et cetera). I would absolutely LOVE to see you Let's Play that game!
At a lower level, the spider is almost all luck! Aht would sometimes get two turns in a row instead of it being Aht and Stocke. This led to the boss acting twice if he kills Aht! Stocke also dies in one hit.
I relied on Dead Fencer and Lucky Breath after the spider used a fear. It takes out obscene HP, even at low levels. That, some luck and about 50 Holy Waters did the trick.
P.S: I was following your guide on Gamefaqs before I even realized it was HC! I thought the writing sounded familiar...
Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga's optional boss - Hito Shura.
Not just the hardest boss in the game.
Not just the hardest boss in the Shin Megami Tensei series.
Perhaps the hardest boss in JRPGs period.
You need to grind up to level 99 and max out as many stats as you can just to stand a chance! And you can't have any skills that make you immune to elements. If you do, he overkills your entire party. He requires a lot of strategy and a good deal of luck to beat.
I think people mix up hard and challenging a lot. But I guess it's just how I see it.
To me, a hard game is one that is difficult for all the wrong reasons: bad controls, bugs, etc.
on the other hand, a challenging game is one that throws difficult to overcome obstacles, that you; the player, can overcome with the mechanics given to you. Sometimes that even means thinking outside the box, and abusing an enemies weak point, or fighting an enemy in a way the devs never even knew of.
The Moirae are another name for the Fates in Greek mythology. Given the overall themes of the game, I think it's a very fitting reference for one of Stocke's best pieces of equipment. Nice work clearing that fight so early in the game!
I think limitations on a party sometimes takes away from a game. But that is mostly due to the fact that taking away my magic or skills just when I obtain something I was really excited to work into my battle plan.
That's the best summary of an RPG that comes to my mind,things like grinding were one of the things I grew up with as well so I never considered it hard,even with disgaea I was fine only because I pretty much had nothing else better to do as a kid,but over the years I've realized how tedious it can be,Im still fan and love the series don't get me wrong,but I've learned to set a cap playing those games,I've pretty much lost interest in my delusional youthful goal of grinding to max levels lol
Stocke: We're going to need some Raid---lots and LOTS OF RAID!
Aht: I don't have any Raid just this napkin.
Stocke: Well I guess it will do---LET'S ROCK!!!
The battle with the Mist Spider didn't go well for either Stocke or Aht as their only weapon was a tiny napkin. The Mist Spider killed and ate them both but it's hunger wasn't satisfied and it went on to devour the world.
Challenging RPGs off the top of my head (On hardest difficulty): Demons Souls, any Elder Scrolls, any Fallout, Mass Effect 1 and 2, the first Kingdom Hearts (mainly just the Dark Riku fight).
I can't think of any challenging turn-based ones though.
You always say save Mana Burst for boss fights, but then the fights come along and you don't use them. I don't know much they would help you in this particular battle. I know you don't need them, but it would make them easier.
@ZeRedSpy The problem with making the players' reflexes the source of the challenge is that there's nothing you can do about it. I can't magically think my way to react faster. That's not challenge, just an obstacle that I can't overcome.
@HCBailly I feel the same way about QTEs, especially the one EVERY GAME COMPANY seems to love the days: button mashing. I don't have particularly great dexterity, so when I see one of those, I am not very happy. It may not be difficult to others, but it is quite the artificial difficulty to me. And I hear FF13-2 is going to use QTEs :\
@TBOctavann I'm indifferent to QTEs. Yeah, it's a silly gimmick to make players feel like they're interacting with the cutscenes that I don't agree accomplishes that, but I don't think it takes away from (or adds to) the experience either, as long as it's not ridiculously complicated.
@HCBailly You could be completely correct based on your experience with QTE's, but I wouldn't condemn the mechanic altogether (I know you haven't, as you said you are indifferent, I'm just trying to make a point). I think it completely depends on HOW the QTE's are implemented. As far as FFXIII-2 goes, I think QTE's would be a BRILLIANT way to break the boss fight up into phases.
@Zaychavitch Oh man, I can't tell you how many times I was playing KH without a care, murdering with ease, and then Dark Riku came. Every time I play, it takes about an hour to beat him
@HCBailly But doesn't practicing a reflex create muscle memory and therefore allow you to get better at a situation you are reacting as fast as you can to? There is challenge in the ability to keep practicing to fire a synapse faster and have a faster reaction time.
@HCBailly By that reasoning pretty much all fighting games aren't challenging. The whole point of those games is to make the player improve not just present you with a problem you can overcome in one instant if you figure it out. How is there nothing you can do about your reflexes? Reflexes are things that can be improved and with them your performance in the game.
@kazuyoshi101 Fighting games largely rely on cheap shots to "challenge" the player with moves that you couldn't possibly react to quickly enough, as well as obscenely complicated button combos to execute what should otherwise be a simply button press. Some people (like myself) just don't have the reflexes to play those games. It's genetic. While I can (and have in the past) improved them slightly with practice, there's an inherent limit to how much of the game I can play.
@ZeRedSpy Reflexes as part of the challenge/difficulty is for action games. For pure RPGs, they're not a legitimate challenge, but a gimmick. As for Demon Souls and Dark Souls, the 'difficulty' comes from the lack of checkpoints through the (fairly long) levels and the game throwing everything and its mother at you to kill you, including the environment. That's not genuine difficulty. That's game designers choosing to be difficult to frustrate players. Think Super Mario Bros. 1.
@ZeRedSpy I don't think the reaction time and speed of attacks were all that more challenging than average action RPGs. I think the thing that made them legitimately more challenging were the ways the world was shaped around you. The developers used "NES" era logic, having the enemies placed ever so ingeniously, so that every encounter would be a new challenge for the first time. After that, you kind of adapt to the game, and learn from it, rather than it feeling like a cheap shot.
@ZeRedSpy Demon Souls is not genuine difficulty. Enemies jumping out from behind corners and knocking you off instant death cliffs before you can do anything is not genuine difficulty.
you know what i hate in rpgs is when you a boss does a move that looks insanely powerful and makes you think youre done for then you find out it barely does anything at all
I'm guessing that HCBailly's next LP is Final Fantasy XII, because he's been talking about it a lot and he mentioned limitations in battles (the optional esper battles).
I consider a hard RPG one that makes you think hard. I like when you have to make the most of everything you have. Games that have mechanics that are too simple just result in "figure out how the designers wanted you to get past this", which isn't very fun or personal. Games with mechanics that are too complex allow for original solutions to problems, but it is harder to make those challenging. It can be hard to balance it.
@NintendoCapriSun I fought that bear, and it killed me too fast. So I was like "screw it" and went on with the game. That's just another thing I'll have to go back and get. I missed a ton of stuff.
I had this strange dream/random thought process this morning. In it, Stocke got a bad ending because he decided to watch a trio of exotic dancers dance instead of watching Aht dance outside, and then she got all huffy and left. I'm not entirely sure what happened afterwards, but it was along the lines of "Welp, one of your main ways of saving the world just walked out on you, the world dies, THE END." I dunno.
Tourniquets (which also are pronounced without the emphasis on the 'o'; tour, as in taking a tour of a museum, for example) are used for more than amputations. Most often, they are used when a nurse is preparing you for something that requires a needle to be inserted into a vein for an extended period, like when you're getting an IV or giving blood. It helps by restricting bloodflow so that the vein will pop up more easily, thus insuring an accurate poke.
I'd call the Romancing SaGa games pretty genuinely difficult. You have to think carefully sometimes about what you're doing because there is no practical way to heal multiple people for any significant amount in those games, meaning sheer DPS and healing is often not a viable option. Your options can also be limited depending on your selection of weapon techs, which is not necessarily consistent among playthroughs. On top of that, there's the order you play the game in to consider...
wouldn't it have been better to have aht have the least amount of defense? since shes gonna dye in one hit from the spider it would be better for her to taker more damage so the spider will take more damage? or is it based on remaining HP?
@indignation01 Traps deal less damage when dropped on top of an enemy. It's not a problem during random battles, but for a huge boss like this, it would be a problem.
@HCBailly Does it count as dropping it on an enemy if you have Stocke launch them into the air and then cast the trap underneath them? That way, wouldn't they take trap damage and fall damage?
@1ortizca They won't take fall damage unless you hit them in the air. Besides, you can't launch the giant bear.
Also, launch damage while in the air does not add to fall damage. You can launch the opponent into the air while they're in the air, but it won't add any extra damage.
I dunno about hard rpgs... MMOrpgs are usuallly hard *the bosses* and can be considered rpgs... yeah they are meant to be fought in groups but, the ones I played you can solo them, it is hard but....
I'm all for a challenging RPG just as long as they don't have a set way of doing things. I like to think outside the box and be creative as to actually have fun with a game but if the game's unforgiving difficulty only allows a specific method of approach then it just becomes tedious.
WOW, after seeing only two-tile and four-tile enemies for so long, I was surprised to see a boss THAT big! XD
Me, I find RPGs hard when the level of the next boss or gauntlet is disproportionate to the levels of the small enemies in the area. Especially when there's barely enough strategy to put you on equal footing, but that mostly means it's just hard to level up to the their level to take them out. So it mostly comes down to 'unfair grinding fests' that make an RPG 'hard' for me.
@MGNSMG Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Forcing the player to level-grind does not make the game hard. It makes it tedious, though I'm somewhat tolerant of level-grinding, since I grew up with it. Then, I tried playing Disgaea... It taught me a new level of patience that I have yet to achieve.
@HCBailly I did play(but not beat) a few older RPGs in the day(mostly Dragon Warrior 1 and The Magic of Scheherazade on the NES), but my first real RPG experience was Chrono Trigger. So that set the bar wayyyyy too high for my expectations, and I sometimes have difficulty dealing with slightly more grindy games. I can manage, but when grinding is the only strategy, it becomes yeah, a bit too tedious..
@HCBailly I always thought of level-grinding as a "work-out simulation". It's tedious, takes longer than you'd like it to, can leave you injured, but in the end; makes you better. I kind of prefer it to games that give us a set character that is just "awesome" from the start. the grind kind of just makes you connect the the growth of a character. Disgaea is a whole different story though. That series is fun, but takes it's parody so seriously, even the grinding is ridiculous.
@HeWhoEnjoysTehVids True dat. It takes like 500+ hours before you can do a million damage. In the newest Disgaea, the damage cap is 999million, can't even imagine how long it would take before you're able to deal 100 million.
the only way any game is hard is through imbalancing and cheap shots. Even first person shooters like to pit hundreds of enemies in your way and call trial and error skill. Its why i think games should only have a moderate challenge and concentrate more on being just fun. Multiplayer is the place for "skill"
For RPGs with a genuine challenge, you should check out the Shin Megami Tensei games (both persona and the non-persona ones), as well as Etrian Odyssey.
@monkeyman423 I've played through the first Etrian Odyessey, and even though it has challenge to it, it doesn't have very much strategy, if at all. It's basically, "use your best skill if you have the TP to use it, or normally attack it until it's dead."
Also, some abilities are utterly worthless. There's no need for elemental protection spells. They don't help.
It also has a lot of cheap shot moments, like the flowers the put your ENTIRE party to sleep with a 70% chance rate.
HCBailly, you should try Archael7's insane difficulty patch for final fantasy tactics. imo, that's a good exmple of a hard game. It's a rebalance and difficulty raising patch, which makes you really need to know how to play. Deep dungeon can be ridiculous though...
@1andonlyWojjan Errrr, this might be a spoiler, but at the time that you're supposed to beat the mist spider, it should be near end game. At that time, everyone already knows your real name. They're no typo there. The developers just must of thought that no one would be able to beat it at such low levels.
@toaker I thought the reverse, personally. I thought that FFIIIDS was waaaaaaay harder.
I never played any other version of FFIV but the DS version, and I thought it was very balanced in terms of difficulty. It's not easy, but it's also not hard.
I think difficulty is all about reflexes and skill. Generally RPG's don't require much skill, however, most require strategy and they can become very easy if you have a lot of knowledge about the game.
@superanimeniac I pretty sure HCBaily knows that game he did do a walkthough on one of the Final Fantasy tactics games (since there is more than the advanced and DS ones)
@superanimeniac Tactics A2 is the same way, although the Judge's Laws you can ignore if you don't want to deal with them. Lose out on some bonus loot, but not even halfway through the game it becomes trash loot anyway, but it makes for a fun challenge
I remember hearing that the person who developed Radiant Historia's battle system/mechanics also did all three Etrian Odysseys. Now, if you want to think of an unfair/difficult battle mechanic, look no further than EO. :/ They really punish you for not knowing what skills you're getting.
@TrueSoreThumb In the first one, I really hate those flowers that put your whole damn party to sleep with what feels like a 70% success rate for each member it hit.
Difficulty in an RPG is really subjective in my opinion. I purposely play on the highest difficulty settings in an RPG because, although it might be imbalanced, it keeps me on the edge (although it might also encourage grinding) e.g. P3P Maniac Mode was one of the hardest things to play through because I had to be careful in every battle due to every thing able to potentially kill you without warning (Don't get me started on Akasha Arts criticals). It was imbalanced but I liked the challenge.
@jordanliow Haha, yeah after dying enough times, it grows on you :p. I found the key to Maniac mode to be in the buffs/debuffs, they made it so much easier to play through the game. Its crazy for me to be saying it but I'm glad they put in Maniac mode for P3P. Plus, it feels like an accomplishment (although I've yet to beat Elizabeth in Maniac mode)
Your most challenging RPGs are generally of the Roguelike and Grand Strategy with RPG stripe---though not all are created equal in this regard. As is it the case of stark differences from ones based around a Math/Number war versus a need for Improvisation.
Technically, every time you make a wrong decision, you kinda "lose" the game, no? (Even if you can still go back, of course) So it's actually a very difficult game.
@XxUnitedAsiansxX Heck no, he'd never do a game so proceedral so chock full of dialouge. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it wouldn't be LP commentary material.
@XxUnitedAsiansxX I have no idea what you even mean by that. I'm just saying HCBailly couldn't do his style of LPs and commentary with something like those games.
@EvileLlamaThingeh Oh dear god yes they are. Those door battles in Persona 3 Portable are insanely difficult. Not the flashback ones, the set level ones. Dear lord, I've still neglected to beat them T_T
@EvileLlamaThingeh In all honesty their difficulty comes partially from unfairness. Not only do you get a game over if your main character dies, even though there would be others around to surrect him, but lots of enemies have multiple instant kill moves to abuse as well. I like Shin Megami Tensei, but I also think they're kinda cheap when it comes to difficulty.
@ZealSeraph They can be cheap at times true, but the cheapness can be averted with the right preparations. And having to actually prepare for bosses and tough enemies by thinking up different strategies with different demons is part of what makes those games so great imo. Same thing can be said for the MC dying. It adds difficulty by giving you that handicap, but it's manageable.
@ZealSeraph wierd, i'm playing Shin Megami Tensei persona 4 right now and i don't think its hard at all... you just have to take the dungeons a little bit at a time and your fine
@Soulreaper1937 Persona games are the easiest Shin Megami Tensei games I've played. Try Nocturne (Lucifer's call if you're European) and Digital Devil Saga instead. And even in Persona games enemies with instant death moves can pop up without a warning, and at that point you'd better have a persona that resists dark- or light element, a spare homunculus in your item list, or pure luck. It's not like it's impossible, it just feels like a cheap way to make the game harder.
the way I beat him at the same point in the game as you HCBailly was placing a, i think they're called a Paralyze Wing? on him, to limit his turns as much as possible, and spamming both heals and magic attacks to him, sadly i never tried using any other wings, but yeah
@HCBailly i frankly don't know if enemies take poison damage if they become paralyzed, i only played through the game once, and i didn't experiment with everything - but the fight took a veeeery looooong time for me regardless, but it still worked
@HCBailly true but if you use the 3 you have a better chance of survival with minimal item use,(even though you have little money) plus you could string a ton of turns together to do high damage with say a double air assault (i cant remember if it works on him or not)
@Tobezlek Out of curiosity: Where do you get those numbers from?
Or is that just what you think they are? (and yes, I've played the game, even did 100%, but I never saw/read about any age hints. I personally would think that every character you've listed, besides aht, is like 3-7 years older)
I mostly agree with you about the whole difficulty thing. Even new Games,as Demon's and Dark Souls, which are supposedly to hard are kind of easy if you now what to do and if you have a strategy.
You want a hard RPG? Try Resonance of Fate. When playing it, you WILL die. A lot. It's hard to explain what type of RPG it is. It's very unique in gameplay style. It's about the closest you can get to combining action and an RPG without making it an action-RPG. I highly recommend it if you're looking for a challenge.
Thank you so much for this walkthrough. I'm gonna go kick some spider ass!
SailorBalance 4 weeks ago
Vagrant Story has an artificially raised difficulty spike with its final boss, which is obviously a good place for it. On your first playthough It has no weakness to any spell, weapon or technique you have access to. However unlike certain earlier boss fights It is susceptible to chain hits which adds fairness to the difficulty spike.
pious83 1 month ago
Speed Down doesn't do much, but speed does have a use outside of preemptive strikes. There were times later in the game where Stocke was a much higher level than anyone else in my party and as such was fast enough that he would go before an enemy, thereby separating his turn from those of my other party members. I've looked at their stats, and it seems to be because Stocke has a speed that is at least 4 higher than anyone else (except Aht, but she will always be fastest unless you neglect her).
newbie17wtf 1 month ago
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne anyone...? :o
newbrowny 2 months ago
Hey, couldn't you have used Stocke and Aht's second level mana breaks to speed the battle up a little bit? It seems like you were taking enough damage that they'd recharge reasonably quickly, and it's an ability that doesn't use any mana.
ThePancakesGuy 2 months ago
I think in the case of RPGs, the main challenge comes from figuring out what to do as opposed to actually doing. Granted, given how many battle you face, it doesn't take too long to get the basics down and learn enough to get by.
In any case, it seems a good portion of debate I've seen over the years comes as result of people disagreeing on what actually counts as legit challenge.
HolyAjora 2 months ago
My reaction: -_- •_• O_O
n123581321 2 months ago
OH MAN! I am arachnophobic, and this terrifies me. A spider that big... if that existed no one would be safe.
killincat470 2 months ago
You silly man we have bombers.
MWaser 2 weeks ago
Do you know the game Yggdra Union - We'll never fight alone ? That game is unbelievably unforgiving it's truly horrible. But if you know the right strategies and wich battles are next it can be a bit easier. Still you'd have to be a strategic mastermind! Maybe you should check it sometime it's for the GBA and PSP.
PortalFreak1996 2 months ago
HC, in real life tourniquets are used in hospitals for reducing circulation for just about any reason. Mostly they are used in blood collection to help enlarge the vein a little. Doing that often raises your blood pressure though, so extended use of them is not recommended. Clamps are normally used for hemorraging veins and whatnot.
UkyoKuonji2010 2 months ago in playlist More videos from HCBailly
I really like The Legend of Dragoon. The addition system is reliant on your reflexes but it isn't terribly bad either. There are a couple of tricky additions where you have to get timing down properly but it is still a very impressive game. I really enjoy the story of it too which is the thing that keeps bringing me back to replay it.
zuloph 2 months ago 3
On the note of this game's difficulty, it's mostly because I honestly feel the battle-system is not quite finished. Only the opponents have a grid they can be moved on, only the opponents are effected by grid movements. It's really stacked in the players benefits right now. Make it so they take much less damage in the back-row in general, make assaults stronger the more grid spaces moved per assault. Give the NPCs a quick move option to change grid without completely wasting turns...
Cloudski 2 months ago
Demon/Dark Souls isnt about reflexes. It has a nice balance of everything you need as a gamer to be good in it.
ytilaud 2 months ago
Man I really liked how HCB got quite "philosophical" during the spider boss fight. Really addressing rpg's as a whole was awesome to listen too, because I happened to agree with him for the most part. I really love balanced rpg's that require THINKING. Of course most rpg's can be made ridiculously simple by grinding. Skill is a very different thing in rpg's then in other genres. I haven't been watching this LP at all because I've never played the game, but I am very glad I tuned in to this one.
proadam09 2 months ago
I think Fire Emblem for the GBA is *genuinely* difficult, @HCBailly. You ought to try it out sometime. :)
AllOfUsLoveSpam 2 months ago
@AllOfUsLoveSpam It's a game where if you want to keep your party members, you're going to have to reset. Many, many times.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
Persona 3 and 4, in fact, have THE WORST cheap shots!! The most particular ones being:
A) If YOU (the main character) die, it's game over; Your team cannot revive you.
B) In addition to [A], enemies have instant-death abilities they ARE NOT afraid to spam.
C) Having your weakness struck ALSO causes double-turns-- Which EASILY spells death.
The only thing they did to -remotely- balance these factors was in Persona 4, where they added "blocking" to ignore weaknesses, and "Team Save" actions.
Nekarcos 2 months ago
@Nekarcos Golden Sun: The Lost Age has a horrid cheap shot on the optional "harder than the final boss" boss. Djinn storm, all your active party's djinn are now all in recovery. His formina sage attack now does excess of 1000 damage because all your stats lower accordingly.
LordDraco170 2 months ago
Shin Megami tensei games are the most difficult RPGs, and most of them dont have actual equipment.
Loffter 2 months ago
It sounds like you are having fun with this game. I'm gonna get this, it looks great.
ReiaSage 2 months ago
@HCBailly I agree with @TheJBrown60. The persona games are hard but fun. I think you should add them to your list. Not sure how you feel about roguelikes though.
Also, just a question but would your mana bursts have helped at all this battle?
sslrranma 2 months ago
@HCBailly Persona 3+4..hardest rpgs ive ever played. Give those games a shot. Theyre hard unless ur overleveled which is hard to be bc the exp.gets scaled so much
TheJbrown60 2 months ago
A while back, in your Seiken Densetsu LP, you mentioned you played 4 Heroes of Light. What's your opinion on that game?
bajeezus1234 2 months ago
Try shinmegami tensei nocturne HC probably one of the most challenging JRps thats not unblanced or cheap.
adadd567 2 months ago
@10:51 A Paling appeared over HCBailly. Making him unable to reveal spoilers!
SilentWeaponsIII 2 months ago
Anyone hear HCBailly's cat at the end sounded like he was saying goodbye to.
Shadowmajeh 2 months ago 8
@HCBailly You can use a tourniquet just to cut off blood supply while you take blood from a vein - like taking blood at the hospital - not necessarily to save a life from a lost limb - probably better with 'packing' the wound in that case anyway. - From your OCD Doctor follower.
NightsJudgement 2 months ago
I feel challenge in RPGs comes from the amount of chaos in the battles that changes your strategy in a manner that you can still win in unique ways. Oh and don't make bosses that aren't immune to deadly status effects *sleep*. The Spider would have been good if speed down did something and it had a weak multi-target skill causing you to need to beat it quicker with good decision making and levels, or a ton of levels.
cjambient 2 months ago
For BOSS TIM.....WHOAAAAAAA! I laughed so hard...sorry HC, that looked funny.
labradoido 2 months ago
I believe there are more uses for tourniquets than just stopping you from blood loss that would cause death. I believe they are used for IVs since I put them in IV start kits at my work.
TheAcidHairball 2 months ago
All this talk about Dragon Warrior makes me want to to watch your LPs again XD
CoinedIt 2 months ago
HC Bailey, wouldn't it have been better if you had 3 party members for the final gladiator fight so they could all get the full XP?
Demongunner7 2 months ago
IMO a hard RPG if something balanced but with loads of puzzles, Beyond the beyond is a hard rpg to me, Alundra is another hard one. Heres hoping you get to lets play those two ^^
Slade2 2 months ago
You forgot to attack its weak point for massive damage.
charlie111 2 months ago
"Have a good day!" "Meow!"
I'm not the only one who caught that, right?
Kengirl01 2 months ago
@Kengirl01 lol KITTY! >:D i guess he wants to say "have a good day" as well ^^
hanna456 2 months ago
hcbailly, when stock beat the bear thing, the gladiator said "good job stocke" howd he know his name
jgween1 2 months ago
Also... Limitations on your party... That reminds me of the game Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, where one dungeon has you not be able to equip anything Metallic (iirc: swords, most armor, et cetera). I would absolutely LOVE to see you Let's Play that game!
SyIvaner 2 months ago
At a lower level, the spider is almost all luck! Aht would sometimes get two turns in a row instead of it being Aht and Stocke. This led to the boss acting twice if he kills Aht! Stocke also dies in one hit.
I relied on Dead Fencer and Lucky Breath after the spider used a fear. It takes out obscene HP, even at low levels. That, some luck and about 50 Holy Waters did the trick.
P.S: I was following your guide on Gamefaqs before I even realized it was HC! I thought the writing sounded familiar...
SyIvaner 2 months ago
Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga's optional boss - Hito Shura.
Not just the hardest boss in the game.
Not just the hardest boss in the Shin Megami Tensei series.
Perhaps the hardest boss in JRPGs period.
You need to grind up to level 99 and max out as many stats as you can just to stand a chance! And you can't have any skills that make you immune to elements. If you do, he overkills your entire party. He requires a lot of strategy and a good deal of luck to beat.
JanusHoW 2 months ago
I think people mix up hard and challenging a lot. But I guess it's just how I see it.
To me, a hard game is one that is difficult for all the wrong reasons: bad controls, bugs, etc.
on the other hand, a challenging game is one that throws difficult to overcome obstacles, that you; the player, can overcome with the mechanics given to you. Sometimes that even means thinking outside the box, and abusing an enemies weak point, or fighting an enemy in a way the devs never even knew of.
HeWhoEnjoysTehVids 2 months ago
@HCBailly So what exactly would consider a real challenge HC?
KentoKaima 2 months ago
The Moirae are another name for the Fates in Greek mythology. Given the overall themes of the game, I think it's a very fitting reference for one of Stocke's best pieces of equipment. Nice work clearing that fight so early in the game!
OldManStompy 2 months ago
I think limitations on a party sometimes takes away from a game. But that is mostly due to the fact that taking away my magic or skills just when I obtain something I was really excited to work into my battle plan.
infinityofgenesis 2 months ago
That's the best summary of an RPG that comes to my mind,things like grinding were one of the things I grew up with as well so I never considered it hard,even with disgaea I was fine only because I pretty much had nothing else better to do as a kid,but over the years I've realized how tedious it can be,Im still fan and love the series don't get me wrong,but I've learned to set a cap playing those games,I've pretty much lost interest in my delusional youthful goal of grinding to max levels lol
KentoKaima 2 months ago
Aht: Stocke look----IT'S A GIANT SPIDER!!!
Stocke: We're going to need some Raid---lots and LOTS OF RAID!
Aht: I don't have any Raid just this napkin.
Stocke: Well I guess it will do---LET'S ROCK!!!
The battle with the Mist Spider didn't go well for either Stocke or Aht as their only weapon was a tiny napkin. The Mist Spider killed and ate them both but it's hunger wasn't satisfied and it went on to devour the world.
Arachnophobia
End.
{Bug Exterminators Node Unlocked}.
sbcmarine81 2 months ago
5:10 "I've had times where I've just been BEARLY off." =3
lollmao5 2 months ago
you should play paper mario,
ComradeLuigi1 2 months ago
A Tourniquet is used to cease arterial blood flow to a limb yes. If there's no spurt, just use direct pressure.
Gjenrei 2 months ago
Challenging RPGs off the top of my head (On hardest difficulty): Demons Souls, any Elder Scrolls, any Fallout, Mass Effect 1 and 2, the first Kingdom Hearts (mainly just the Dark Riku fight).
I can't think of any challenging turn-based ones though.
Zaychavitch 2 months ago
Lol cat meow at the end of the video
hartmonkey 2 months ago
You always say save Mana Burst for boss fights, but then the fights come along and you don't use them. I don't know much they would help you in this particular battle. I know you don't need them, but it would make them easier.
ZergofImportance 2 months ago
@HCBailly Reflexes aren't a legitimate challenge? Ever hear of Demon Souls and it's tougher brother Dark Souls.
They have genuine difficulty
ZeRedSpy 2 months ago
@ZeRedSpy The problem with making the players' reflexes the source of the challenge is that there's nothing you can do about it. I can't magically think my way to react faster. That's not challenge, just an obstacle that I can't overcome.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@HCBailly I feel the same way about QTEs, especially the one EVERY GAME COMPANY seems to love the days: button mashing. I don't have particularly great dexterity, so when I see one of those, I am not very happy. It may not be difficult to others, but it is quite the artificial difficulty to me. And I hear FF13-2 is going to use QTEs :\
TBOctavann 2 months ago
@TBOctavann I'm indifferent to QTEs. Yeah, it's a silly gimmick to make players feel like they're interacting with the cutscenes that I don't agree accomplishes that, but I don't think it takes away from (or adds to) the experience either, as long as it's not ridiculously complicated.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@HCBailly You could be completely correct based on your experience with QTE's, but I wouldn't condemn the mechanic altogether (I know you haven't, as you said you are indifferent, I'm just trying to make a point). I think it completely depends on HOW the QTE's are implemented. As far as FFXIII-2 goes, I think QTE's would be a BRILLIANT way to break the boss fight up into phases.
proadam09 2 months ago
@Zaychavitch Oh man, I can't tell you how many times I was playing KH without a care, murdering with ease, and then Dark Riku came. Every time I play, it takes about an hour to beat him
TBOctavann 2 months ago
@HCBailly
O my god is super Shelob. execuate the village pippin and bardibucks first lol. Nice video.
slagarcrue85 2 months ago
@HCBailly But doesn't practicing a reflex create muscle memory and therefore allow you to get better at a situation you are reacting as fast as you can to? There is challenge in the ability to keep practicing to fire a synapse faster and have a faster reaction time.
cjambient 2 months ago
@HCBailly By that reasoning pretty much all fighting games aren't challenging. The whole point of those games is to make the player improve not just present you with a problem you can overcome in one instant if you figure it out. How is there nothing you can do about your reflexes? Reflexes are things that can be improved and with them your performance in the game.
kazuyoshi101 2 months ago
@kazuyoshi101 Fighting games largely rely on cheap shots to "challenge" the player with moves that you couldn't possibly react to quickly enough, as well as obscenely complicated button combos to execute what should otherwise be a simply button press. Some people (like myself) just don't have the reflexes to play those games. It's genetic. While I can (and have in the past) improved them slightly with practice, there's an inherent limit to how much of the game I can play.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@ZeRedSpy Reflexes as part of the challenge/difficulty is for action games. For pure RPGs, they're not a legitimate challenge, but a gimmick. As for Demon Souls and Dark Souls, the 'difficulty' comes from the lack of checkpoints through the (fairly long) levels and the game throwing everything and its mother at you to kill you, including the environment. That's not genuine difficulty. That's game designers choosing to be difficult to frustrate players. Think Super Mario Bros. 1.
IdiotsAmongUs 2 months ago
@ZeRedSpy I don't think the reaction time and speed of attacks were all that more challenging than average action RPGs. I think the thing that made them legitimately more challenging were the ways the world was shaped around you. The developers used "NES" era logic, having the enemies placed ever so ingeniously, so that every encounter would be a new challenge for the first time. After that, you kind of adapt to the game, and learn from it, rather than it feeling like a cheap shot.
HeWhoEnjoysTehVids 2 months ago
@ZeRedSpy Demon Souls is not genuine difficulty. Enemies jumping out from behind corners and knocking you off instant death cliffs before you can do anything is not genuine difficulty.
vorpalseraph 2 months ago
you know what i hate in rpgs is when you a boss does a move that looks insanely powerful and makes you think youre done for then you find out it barely does anything at all
jakrodriguezful 2 months ago
SoulEater!?.... oh wait no... no... it's just a freaking huge spider.
dwhite0317 2 months ago
I'm guessing that HCBailly's next LP is Final Fantasy XII, because he's been talking about it a lot and he mentioned limitations in battles (the optional esper battles).
KitsuneRagnell 2 months ago
when i saw how big that thing is i shit my pants like a BIATCH
jebach131 2 months ago
What a battle, huh xD
but hey HCBailly, since this battle was "hard" and the monster was quite powerful,shouldn't Stocke and Aht have leveled up a couple times?
Filipe304 2 months ago
I consider a hard RPG one that makes you think hard. I like when you have to make the most of everything you have. Games that have mechanics that are too simple just result in "figure out how the designers wanted you to get past this", which isn't very fun or personal. Games with mechanics that are too complex allow for original solutions to problems, but it is harder to make those challenging. It can be hard to balance it.
antares5245 2 months ago in playlist Let's Play Radiant Historia
@antares5245 True. FF V and VI had really complex mechanics, but those same mechanics simply destroyed the difficulty.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
Nothing like killing the spider, which would traditionally poison YOU...with poison.
TheMelnTeam 2 months ago
Man, I can't believe you just took out that freaking spider! I got him eventually but I was at least 10-15 levels higher.
NintendoCapriSun 2 months ago 21
@NintendoCapriSun I fought that bear, and it killed me too fast. So I was like "screw it" and went on with the game. That's just another thing I'll have to go back and get. I missed a ton of stuff.
LordDraco170 2 months ago
I had this strange dream/random thought process this morning. In it, Stocke got a bad ending because he decided to watch a trio of exotic dancers dance instead of watching Aht dance outside, and then she got all huffy and left. I'm not entirely sure what happened afterwards, but it was along the lines of "Welp, one of your main ways of saving the world just walked out on you, the world dies, THE END." I dunno.
SuperCrazyLuigi 2 months ago
El animal gigante se parece a Snorlax O_o
BatsuXgeemu 2 months ago
That's a HUGE spider!...I'm gonna call him...Jeff!
Also, Gospel Armor? That sounds great. :p
TheNN 2 months ago
@TheNN I kept calling it Charlotte in my head, but Jeff is funnier!
TianaSidhe 2 months ago
@TianaSidhe Thanks, that was the first thing that popped into my head.
TheNN 2 months ago
@TheNN That's a Billy & Mandy reference, right? I seem to recall the giant spider being named Jeff.
SuperCrazyLuigi 2 months ago
@SuperCrazyLuigi Indeed it is. The spider was named Jeff.
TheNN 2 months ago
@TheNN Ah, okay. Thanks for the confirmation.
SuperCrazyLuigi 2 months ago
Tourniquets (which also are pronounced without the emphasis on the 'o'; tour, as in taking a tour of a museum, for example) are used for more than amputations. Most often, they are used when a nurse is preparing you for something that requires a needle to be inserted into a vein for an extended period, like when you're getting an IV or giving blood. It helps by restricting bloodflow so that the vein will pop up more easily, thus insuring an accurate poke.
TianaSidhe 2 months ago
What about Action-RPG's? What would make them difficult?
YoutheUnknownSoldier 2 months ago
I'd call the Romancing SaGa games pretty genuinely difficult. You have to think carefully sometimes about what you're doing because there is no practical way to heal multiple people for any significant amount in those games, meaning sheer DPS and healing is often not a viable option. Your options can also be limited depending on your selection of weapon techs, which is not necessarily consistent among playthroughs. On top of that, there's the order you play the game in to consider...
AhziDahaka 2 months ago
Why is it blue....?
tdbnasc3 2 months ago
wouldn't it have been better to have aht have the least amount of defense? since shes gonna dye in one hit from the spider it would be better for her to taker more damage so the spider will take more damage? or is it based on remaining HP?
Doomknight66 2 months ago
@Doomknight66 Wasn't HC giving all the defense crap to Stocke and none to Aht?
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
regarding the first tournament boss: why didn't you just have aht cast the trap on top of the boss instead of using another left assault from stocke?
indignation01 2 months ago
@indignation01 Traps deal less damage when dropped on top of an enemy. It's not a problem during random battles, but for a huge boss like this, it would be a problem.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@HCBailly Does it count as dropping it on an enemy if you have Stocke launch them into the air and then cast the trap underneath them? That way, wouldn't they take trap damage and fall damage?
1ortizca 2 months ago
@1ortizca They won't take fall damage unless you hit them in the air. Besides, you can't launch the giant bear.
Also, launch damage while in the air does not add to fall damage. You can launch the opponent into the air while they're in the air, but it won't add any extra damage.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
fortunately not as long as the YIAZMAT BATTLE!
Elzmack91 2 months ago
Its a good thing atlus didnt make this game like persona and if the main char dies, game over lol
TheJbrown60 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I dunno about hard rpgs... MMOrpgs are usuallly hard *the bosses* and can be considered rpgs... yeah they are meant to be fought in groups but, the ones I played you can solo them, it is hard but....
lunarsuperstar 2 months ago
Comment removed
lunarsuperstar 2 months ago
did i hear a kitty meow at the very very end or did something squeak?
Pickleton 2 months ago
@Pickleton She was hiding in my room and got locked in.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@HCBailly Awweh, that sounds like a cute cat :D
Sandro234 2 months ago
I'm all for a challenging RPG just as long as they don't have a set way of doing things. I like to think outside the box and be creative as to actually have fun with a game but if the game's unforgiving difficulty only allows a specific method of approach then it just becomes tedious.
ProfessorOak420 2 months ago
When people talk about hard RPGs it generally means "You need to grind more" or the bosses have some kind of gimmick.
lol0999 2 months ago
WOW, after seeing only two-tile and four-tile enemies for so long, I was surprised to see a boss THAT big! XD
Me, I find RPGs hard when the level of the next boss or gauntlet is disproportionate to the levels of the small enemies in the area. Especially when there's barely enough strategy to put you on equal footing, but that mostly means it's just hard to level up to the their level to take them out. So it mostly comes down to 'unfair grinding fests' that make an RPG 'hard' for me.
MGNSMG 2 months ago
@MGNSMG Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Forcing the player to level-grind does not make the game hard. It makes it tedious, though I'm somewhat tolerant of level-grinding, since I grew up with it. Then, I tried playing Disgaea... It taught me a new level of patience that I have yet to achieve.
HCBailly 2 months ago 13
@HCBailly I did play(but not beat) a few older RPGs in the day(mostly Dragon Warrior 1 and The Magic of Scheherazade on the NES), but my first real RPG experience was Chrono Trigger. So that set the bar wayyyyy too high for my expectations, and I sometimes have difficulty dealing with slightly more grindy games. I can manage, but when grinding is the only strategy, it becomes yeah, a bit too tedious..
MGNSMG 2 months ago
@HCBailly I always thought of level-grinding as a "work-out simulation". It's tedious, takes longer than you'd like it to, can leave you injured, but in the end; makes you better. I kind of prefer it to games that give us a set character that is just "awesome" from the start. the grind kind of just makes you connect the the growth of a character. Disgaea is a whole different story though. That series is fun, but takes it's parody so seriously, even the grinding is ridiculous.
HeWhoEnjoysTehVids 2 months ago
@HeWhoEnjoysTehVids True dat. It takes like 500+ hours before you can do a million damage. In the newest Disgaea, the damage cap is 999million, can't even imagine how long it would take before you're able to deal 100 million.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
the only way any game is hard is through imbalancing and cheap shots. Even first person shooters like to pit hundreds of enemies in your way and call trial and error skill. Its why i think games should only have a moderate challenge and concentrate more on being just fun. Multiplayer is the place for "skill"
pointynives 2 months ago
For RPGs with a genuine challenge, you should check out the Shin Megami Tensei games (both persona and the non-persona ones), as well as Etrian Odyssey.
monkeyman423 2 months ago
@monkeyman423 I've played through the first Etrian Odyessey, and even though it has challenge to it, it doesn't have very much strategy, if at all. It's basically, "use your best skill if you have the TP to use it, or normally attack it until it's dead."
Also, some abilities are utterly worthless. There's no need for elemental protection spells. They don't help.
It also has a lot of cheap shot moments, like the flowers the put your ENTIRE party to sleep with a 70% chance rate.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
i wonder if Final Fantasy XIII-2 will be just as enjoyable as the first, or will it just have sequelites
MrSUBURBANLEGEND 2 months ago
98% of RPGs are easy...spam buffs, de-buffs, healing, and you're all set.
I personally like and cherish hard and unbalanced RPGs. It gives a challenge and it makes the game damn satisfying.
99% of RPGs are too easy IMHO
needsleepnow14 2 months ago
HCBailly, you should try Archael7's insane difficulty patch for final fantasy tactics. imo, that's a good exmple of a hard game. It's a rebalance and difficulty raising patch, which makes you really need to know how to play. Deep dungeon can be ridiculous though...
BankaiKisuke 2 months ago
5:40 Heeeeey, he called you Stocke! You're Ernst!
1andonlyWojjan 2 months ago
@1andonlyWojjan Errrr, this might be a spoiler, but at the time that you're supposed to beat the mist spider, it should be near end game. At that time, everyone already knows your real name. They're no typo there. The developers just must of thought that no one would be able to beat it at such low levels.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
If I was Stocke and I was fighting that thing, I would shit my pants.
mgsfan002 2 months ago
Would Mana burst be helpful though the fight with the bosses as well?
MegaAwesomazing 2 months ago
What about FF4 DS its also very unforgiving
toaker 2 months ago
@toaker I thought the reverse, personally. I thought that FFIIIDS was waaaaaaay harder.
I never played any other version of FFIV but the DS version, and I thought it was very balanced in terms of difficulty. It's not easy, but it's also not hard.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
I think difficulty is all about reflexes and skill. Generally RPG's don't require much skill, however, most require strategy and they can become very easy if you have a lot of knowledge about the game.
superstickman42 2 months ago
is it just me or every episode that there's a giant spider he name's it "arachnophobia"?
ViewtifulZX 2 months ago
I prefer an rpg where you dont need buffs and debuff xD
rsguardian81 2 months ago
The Fire Emblem games can get really hard.
Jimbobob5536 2 months ago
first time i fought the spider he killed aht then i was like "HOLY CRAP, MAN! ATTACK!!!!!!!" I only survived two rounds -.-
johnkane455 2 months ago
I did those exact methods to defeat the Crush Bear and the Hell Spider. You net some really good items for doing these battles this early.
Begaria 2 months ago
Moirae...why they didn't just say 'Fate' (the word is Greek), I don't know...mystique, I suppose.
SirPercivalGallant 2 months ago
this battle took me forever my first time through, but i did use your text walkthrough for a push in the right direction XD
iheartmovees 2 months ago
the only incredibly difficult but completly fair rpg that i can think of is Dark Souls, but thats a western rpg.
gentlemanorscholar 2 months ago
if you like limitations, you would LOVE final fantasy tactics advanced.
every mission impairs your party in some way, varying from "no using poison" to "no physical attacks"
superanimeniac 2 months ago
@superanimeniac I'm surprised those games are as well-known as they are. Square Enix spinoffs almost universally flop this millennium.
HCBailly 2 months ago
@superanimeniac I pretty sure HCBaily knows that game he did do a walkthough on one of the Final Fantasy tactics games (since there is more than the advanced and DS ones)
L3WCore 2 months ago
@superanimeniac Tactics A2 is the same way, although the Judge's Laws you can ignore if you don't want to deal with them. Lose out on some bonus loot, but not even halfway through the game it becomes trash loot anyway, but it makes for a fun challenge
ArchetypeGotoh 2 months ago
Lol I heard stripes meow at the end
MrRocknroll566 2 months ago
Want a challenge? Try 7th Saga SNES by Enix.
EmperorAlgus 2 months ago
I remember hearing that the person who developed Radiant Historia's battle system/mechanics also did all three Etrian Odysseys. Now, if you want to think of an unfair/difficult battle mechanic, look no further than EO. :/ They really punish you for not knowing what skills you're getting.
TrueSoreThumb 2 months ago
@TrueSoreThumb In the first one, I really hate those flowers that put your whole damn party to sleep with what feels like a 70% success rate for each member it hit.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
Bishop Stud: Accessory stolen from NintendoCapriSun.
caterpieofdoom 2 months ago
I heard your kitty cat at the end of the video. :3
Tempest329 2 months ago
Difficulty in an RPG is really subjective in my opinion. I purposely play on the highest difficulty settings in an RPG because, although it might be imbalanced, it keeps me on the edge (although it might also encourage grinding) e.g. P3P Maniac Mode was one of the hardest things to play through because I had to be careful in every battle due to every thing able to potentially kill you without warning (Don't get me started on Akasha Arts criticals). It was imbalanced but I liked the challenge.
Waterwish545 2 months ago
@Waterwish545 You LIKED Maniac Mode? I'm not sure what to make of your mental stability.
jordanliow 2 months ago
@jordanliow Haha, yeah after dying enough times, it grows on you :p. I found the key to Maniac mode to be in the buffs/debuffs, they made it so much easier to play through the game. Its crazy for me to be saying it but I'm glad they put in Maniac mode for P3P. Plus, it feels like an accomplishment (although I've yet to beat Elizabeth in Maniac mode)
Waterwish545 2 months ago
Your most challenging RPGs are generally of the Roguelike and Grand Strategy with RPG stripe---though not all are created equal in this regard. As is it the case of stark differences from ones based around a Math/Number war versus a need for Improvisation.
getter7seven 2 months ago
Technically, every time you make a wrong decision, you kinda "lose" the game, no? (Even if you can still go back, of course) So it's actually a very difficult game.
Lysergesaure1 2 months ago
do a LP of Persona 3 and 4 HC baily :D
XxUnitedAsiansxX 2 months ago
@XxUnitedAsiansxX Heck no, he'd never do a game so proceedral so chock full of dialouge. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it wouldn't be LP commentary material.
jordanliow 2 months ago
@jordanliow Every game is lets play material >.> Its just commentary.
XxUnitedAsiansxX 2 months ago
@XxUnitedAsiansxX I have no idea what you even mean by that. I'm just saying HCBailly couldn't do his style of LPs and commentary with something like those games.
jordanliow 2 months ago
when i think of an end game super boss, i thing giant robot, or dragon, but now i think spiders
iamthepkmmaster 2 months ago
For a genuinely difficult RPG you should play Shin Megami Tensei games. They are HARD.
EvileLlamaThingeh 2 months ago 27
@EvileLlamaThingeh Or Instant Death - The Game series as I call them
drKalitsu 2 months ago
@EvileLlamaThingeh Oh dear god yes they are. Those door battles in Persona 3 Portable are insanely difficult. Not the flashback ones, the set level ones. Dear lord, I've still neglected to beat them T_T
mgsfan002 2 months ago
@EvileLlamaThingeh In all honesty their difficulty comes partially from unfairness. Not only do you get a game over if your main character dies, even though there would be others around to surrect him, but lots of enemies have multiple instant kill moves to abuse as well. I like Shin Megami Tensei, but I also think they're kinda cheap when it comes to difficulty.
ZealSeraph 2 months ago
@ZealSeraph They can be cheap at times true, but the cheapness can be averted with the right preparations. And having to actually prepare for bosses and tough enemies by thinking up different strategies with different demons is part of what makes those games so great imo. Same thing can be said for the MC dying. It adds difficulty by giving you that handicap, but it's manageable.
EvileLlamaThingeh 2 months ago
@ZealSeraph wierd, i'm playing Shin Megami Tensei persona 4 right now and i don't think its hard at all... you just have to take the dungeons a little bit at a time and your fine
Soulreaper1937 2 months ago
@Soulreaper1937 Persona games are the easiest Shin Megami Tensei games I've played. Try Nocturne (Lucifer's call if you're European) and Digital Devil Saga instead. And even in Persona games enemies with instant death moves can pop up without a warning, and at that point you'd better have a persona that resists dark- or light element, a spare homunculus in your item list, or pure luck. It's not like it's impossible, it just feels like a cheap way to make the game harder.
ZealSeraph 2 months ago
the way I beat him at the same point in the game as you HCBailly was placing a, i think they're called a Paralyze Wing? on him, to limit his turns as much as possible, and spamming both heals and magic attacks to him, sadly i never tried using any other wings, but yeah
Fantasizek 2 months ago
@Fantasizek Wouldn't paralysis limit its turns and thus, the amount of damage it can take from poison and curse?
HCBailly 2 months ago 3
@HCBailly i frankly don't know if enemies take poison damage if they become paralyzed, i only played through the game once, and i didn't experiment with everything - but the fight took a veeeery looooong time for me regardless, but it still worked
Fantasizek 2 months ago
@HCBailly true but if you use the 3 you have a better chance of survival with minimal item use,(even though you have little money) plus you could string a ton of turns together to do high damage with say a double air assault (i cant remember if it works on him or not)
kingk1132 2 months ago
@kingk1132 On enemies that are grounded or take up four or six tiles, air assult only deals damage.
I don't know of a four tile enemy that can be launched.
CastlePokemetroid 2 months ago
Mist Spider! Mist Dragon? No.
klaymeister 2 months ago
stocke is 19
aht is 9
raynie is 17
marco is 17
rosch is 21
just thought i'd say :D
Tobezlek 2 months ago
@Tobezlek Out of curiosity: Where do you get those numbers from?
Or is that just what you think they are? (and yes, I've played the game, even did 100%, but I never saw/read about any age hints. I personally would think that every character you've listed, besides aht, is like 3-7 years older)
JamesAedan 2 months ago
@JamesAedan Radiant Historia wiki
Tobezlek 2 months ago
I mostly agree with you about the whole difficulty thing. Even new Games,as Demon's and Dark Souls, which are supposedly to hard are kind of easy if you now what to do and if you have a strategy.
D3rKommentator 2 months ago
@D3rKommentator Then Challenge is nothing but a personal view... If we think something is easy... it's because we're prepared for it.
Eincrossfire 2 months ago
You want a hard RPG? Try Resonance of Fate. When playing it, you WILL die. A lot. It's hard to explain what type of RPG it is. It's very unique in gameplay style. It's about the closest you can get to combining action and an RPG without making it an action-RPG. I highly recommend it if you're looking for a challenge.
endlessend2646 2 months ago