You dont think the Muslim world at large likes the same shit we do? If anything a bridge that connects the two cultures is the same stuff youre railing against: movies, music, video games, etc. they love it!
..But no, it's not some of the things that have happen in history that makes Muslims hate the west. No, it's god damn Hollywood.
Shifting the blame to something mundane—something only an extremist would find offensive—classy.
You forgot to change the word "God" to "Allah" when you spoke of your (cough-cough) non-secularist brothers-in-arms in the middle east. Don't try and paint this as though it's east AND west against the secularist left; those Muslims that attack us despise YOUR religion just as much as you despise theirs. The difference is that the secular left doesn't go attacking them like you and your far-right wacko political puppets (i.e. Dubbya).
Yes, Atheists base their morality on what they see animals do such as chimps, gorillas, baboons, etc... For example, a lesbian Atheist once told me that her sexual preference isn't that unnatural as we Christians claim because she read that some apes have shown homosexual tendencies. So I asked her: Some chimps have been observed to cannibalize their own. Does that mean that a serial killer such as Jeffrey Dahmer who ate his victims was just doing a NATURAL ACT because chimps also do it?"
It's a logical impossibility for someone who doesn't recognize objective morality to dictate laws & social behavior that would benefit a society. Atheists produce their own subjective morality as they go based on their lusts,desires & personal egos. This is why Atheists in Europe and America have sunk into a sea of destructive behavior that has turned their daughters into whores, sons into drug addicts and killers, school shootings, and genocides such as those committed during the 20th century.
I can offer a few details, product of my own research about Atheism in Europe and its effects. Is this what we in America really want for our families?
Drugs in Atheistic Europe:
===
*68 percent increase in the number of recorded drug offenses for the past ten years in UK according to the Home Office.
*The cost of drug-related crime in England and Wales is estimated at £13 billion.
*The United Nations' International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) stated that many estimations have been made of the total revenue of the illicit drug industry, most ranging from $300 billion to $500 billion.
*In 1994 this figure would have been larger than the international trade in iron and steel and motor vehicles and about the same size as the total international trade in textiles.
*Council of Europe's main goals is to look at ways to standardize laws on prostitution in the continent.
*Amsterdam has 11,000 registered prostitutes & their prostitution profession pays taxes to the government (it benefits from prostitution). Government there is like the Big McDaddy pimp of whores.
*Kosovo is now considered Europe's door for entrance of Asian prostitutes & child pornography.
Atheism has a lot to do with liberalism. That's why liberals believe in perversion of families, sex, etc. It's because they don't believe in God, and they don't follow the morals of the Bible.
They spread their perversion through the media, and through our public schools. Even Kindergarteners are being brainwashed with gay marriage.
The left is trying to take over our country, but the conservatives are gonna wake up, and put an end to this perversion of America.
Oh how convenient it all is when it comes to the bible.
I suppose we should ignore the ten commandments then, those were rules just given to the Jews in the old testament, so they must have only been for the jews, and we all know it's not fair to point to the old testament to criticize Christianity because they're all about the new Testament and Jeeeezus.
actually we were never a nation under god. read the constitution/bill of rights. that little line wasn't inserted until the 1970s because of cold war paranoia. funny how christianity gets its strongest foothold whenever poeple are the most scared and weak.
course I could go on. Let's see, only two of the commandment are actually laws.
God directly commands the slaughter of over 2 million people, as well as the untold number of people and complete destruction of 65 cities because they aren't Christians. He orders the killing on babies born to non-Christians, and forced abortions of pregnant women if the father was a non-christian.
So exactly what "values" of Christianity are we founded on? the one that says thoughts are as bad as deeds?
try reading your bible sometime, or just the 613 laws, that state slavery is ok, tells you who to enslave, how to mark them as slaves, and how much to sell them for. Also says to kill non-believers, gays, and women that cheat, though not men. Jesus says if you think about something you're as guilty as doing it. That belief in him is more important then your actions in life. That you can be Gandhi but will go to hell for not believing in him.
then of course the laughable notion that god loves you. Would you torture your kids forever for not loving you enough? Well god will. Then of course Jesus suggestion to people self mutilation. God commanding villages be destroyed, except for the virgin girls, jee, I wonder why. God says the smell of blood is pleasing to him. Of course Lot offering his daughters to be gangraped then sleeping with them himself, and God letting Job to tortured just to show up satan.
How did we go from American history to your buck-shot nonsense? Focus, focus. You're only exposing your pre-determined agenda - which isn't objective. Everything you're posting is cut & paste misinformation - missing real, true investigation. Plus the pace you're typing it is insane, like you get lots of practice cutting & pasting it. Ha. Funny.
Again, answer the question, which principles of Christianity? can't answer that, can you?"
Also, this is the normal pace at which I type, not my fault you type slowly.
Also, no, try studying, nothing I've said is untrue or misinformation, it is simply the facts.
As I said, I did get off topic, the fact the bible is a bunch of crap is not the point, the point is, we were not founded of any religion, we were founded on secularism.
You're going off the reservation here. You're not even squaring with reality.
The stuff I'm communicating is clearly documented; but your stuff is dubious beyond comprehension. Not sure if I can even reason with you here, so I'll stop.
Yes maybe pointing out all the evil and wicked deeds of the bible is off topic, just wondering what "Christian principles" you think we're supposedly founded on? The ones that supports slavery, rape, genocide, and infanticide?
That aside though, your understanding of history and reality is flawed, try to learn the truth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but assuming you are a Christian, so your eyes are already blurred to see what you want.
If you're going to say we were founded on Christian principles, you have to have proof to back it up, but the proof is against you.
If you want to use the declaration, it was mostly written by Thomas Jefferson, a deist, who thought very little of Christianity, he thought it deserved to be ridiculed, and it's ideas were laughable.
If you want to use the constitution, it mentions only keeping any religion from effecting the laws of the country
And hey Brock, lets smell reality, most countries in the world are laughing at us and don't like us because of people like Bush, the republican party, and right wingers.
Uhh... so Muslim's that believe in beating their wives, selling their daughters, female circumcision, stoning their daughters to death for falling in love, don't like the "godlessness of America"? I'd say that's a strong case to keep it up.
Whereas Dawkins (in 4 Horsemen) has said that it is good to have atheists across the political spectrum, Brock clearly wants to see Christianity as being predominantly right wing, thereby doubly alienating Atheist conservatives (like me & possibly Karl Rove) & Christian Socialists.
AtheistAntidote... youre letting your hate and discontent get a tad bit ahead of something.... Our free will is from the Good Lord. Im from Georgia..and Im here to tell you..Hollywood, New York City and Washington be damned.. Dont fall into the trap of thinking they are America... OUr media already thinks that entirely too much.
Everyone generalizes too much. The problem is that ignorance. EVERY society has perversion or whatever. Americans are just very loud when it comes to the media. If they were free and didnt get murdered for it. they would have an equally perverse group of people. (I'm pro-family, but the generalizing has to stop, everywhere.)
You spoke to an Egyptian political leader about western media being "pumped" into his country? Wouldn't they have to consciously allow it in? Furthermore, they mind that but not being bombed?
So your saying the freedoms they hate us for are because of us Godless Liberals? You finally GET IT BROCK!!! Liberals are the ones who truly love and appreciate AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM!
Secularity is just as cosmopolitan as any other faith or system of beliefs. YOU are the reason that extreme secular left hates religion and christianity and wants to produce flavour of love season 4 and 5.
YOU are to blame for oversexualised and demoralised society.
Demanding integration and damning any views that are not the same as yours cause protest and hatred.
There is nothing wrong with being religious; there is just something wring with you!
WHy do you think so many muslims flee to europe and not the US? Because you are fucking christian fundies who dont accept shit (the religious right that is) the US has NEVER been a christian nation.. Here in denmark we actually ARE a christian natio, but a large majority of us are atheists and guess what, we have alot of muslims here who mainly live quite well.. so fuck off with your fucking lies you have no idea how the world actually looks
What the heck is a "moderate Muslim" ? Is it like an ELCA Christian? Is it basically someone who doesn't adhere strongly to the tenets of the system of faith they claim to follow? I'm confused. Islam is not shy about claiming the object of their hatred is the "infidels" (read anyone who does not believe in Allah and Mohammad) and that we must all convert or be killed.
Why compromise a powerful message by essentially forming a theoretical alliance with any group of people who deny Christ?
lol, you admire the middle east? why don't you go there? the US was founded by secularist, there's nothing perverted about it, the muslims in the middle east thinks that for a woman to show her legs is perverted, and you choose to admire them? You creationist assholes need to stop blame everyone else for what's wrong and take a long look at yourselves, Every atheist I know is moral and good to people, not every christian I know is like that.
first the religion of muslims is very beautiful second if you read the coran you will find that the woman can show her faces, you are ignorant in afghanistan is legal for women show her faces but some terrorrist groups in poor places just dont aprove it, do you think that all the muslims hates the women? you cant be so idiot, HITLER WAS CHRISTIAN but i dont think that all the christians are like him and bush killed people in the war, but wait there is a ommandment DONT KILL
I bet your time spent in Iraq was in a tank emblazoned with the words "Jesus killed Mohammed" shooting at little kids that dared critcize you. That's just my opinion.
No one is telling you how to live your life you religious hypocrite.
You're the ones who are trying to ban evolution, put prayer in schools, kill homosexuals, and make a theocracy out of our country. We are the ones who are defending constitution and principle of equality.
If you like theocratic regimes so much go to Iran, they are having a blast, literally lol
LOL I think much of the world sees your fundamental religious nutjobs, like yourself. if anything much of the world would be behind Obama, not george Bush.
You need to get out more atheist Antidote.
Also. "SECULAR LEFT" does not mean atheist.
Your only 'God fearing allies' are going to be radical muslims, and other fundamental wack jobs. No wonder you guys support millitant dictators, its in your belief system to do so.
Funny how 90% of your audience are atheists. You're a sideshow freak, here for our amusement.
btw its nice to see people who buy into different fairy tales can stop killing each other long enough to agree on spewing hate at people who depend on logic and facts.
Maybe if you work real hard together you can bring back the dark ages!
If you have faith, then the next time you get sick don't rely on science, just pray about it. If you're really doing some gods will, he'll keep you around.
europe is largly athiest. if the muslims were that bothered about it they would be targerting eruope over america. you really make me sick. your a hitler wanna be
Great. This guy has just admitted the right wing is pretty similar to fundamentalist Islam. What a brilliant argument for Christianity. I guess he must be behind the Taliban and Al Qaeda all the way.
Why do the Islamists target America in particular, above the 'godless Europeans?'
It is not the moderate Muslims you should be worried about, or who you seem to have been talking to.... they sound more similar to Sahid Qutb, who spawned the anti-western Jihad movement which was REJECTED by moderate mulsims at home.
There are many muslims who would dream of the freedom and lack of religious persecution in America - the sort of things you wish to attack.
or vice versa. but at least we agree in a separated America.
i wonder what the US would be like without Us- i mean yeah it would perpetuate for a while, but without medical doctors, teachers, engineers, or scientists. i wonder if it would last a decade... and amongst the confusion, i bet another state would invade and conquer... interesting experiment, give me a copy if you find a town that wants to succeed from the union enough to do what you propose. (besides the Amish)
this vid tells me that you are aware of the weakness of mixing religous and political views, upping the anty, becoming more and more seperatist doesnt help strenghten it. i hear more and more of this crap these days. i wonder if you realize where all this "talk" eventually ends up...
your argument is based on a false dichotomy. you seek to make people choose when they dont have too.
Brock, I've shaken their hands as well, and they were always quick to tell me that they love americans and could even manage to sound convincing. Unfortunately, they are not the right ones to ask about why they hate us.
Try asking the ones that are shooting at us why they hate us, and then maybe I'll be impressed with the insights you have to offer.
And by the way, we killed more than a 100 thousand of their sons and daughters. They are not going to love us.
True, Pres Obama should have apologized to the world for most of the commenters on this video here - not for America's arrogance.
Of course lots of the commenters here could be in Europe. We hope, right. Embarrassing.
Good thing is that non-believers in God or Allah or SOMETHING supernatural - tend not to reproduce too much because 'healthy' sex is often abhorrent to them.
People usually get influenced strongly by what mom and dad teach them. Religious people who teach their kids to trust God, love his/her neighbors and practice healthy-sex causing healthy families will outnumber the people who use sex only to humiliate humanity.
There have always been people who reject God. Not sure that there're more now than in the past. Genesis begins w/ humanity rejecting God. The Bible talks about the road to destruction being wide and the road to redemption being narrow, and it was written long ago.
Plus Christianity is growing strongly in lots of places! Good news.
Religion today is a mere shadow of what it has been in the past. Some hundred years ago the pope could snap his fingers and have anyones head chopped clean off. Even the way christianity is practiced today is different from what it was in the past.
It's good that the Pope isn't getting people's heads chopped off now; he's supposed to be a church leader not a law-enforcement leader. Good for religion today that the Pope sticks to religion.
Some things about the way Christianity is practiced today is worse, I agree; like the institutional-strength is missing and people desperately illiterate when it comes to God's Word.
But in some places those things are growing-for-the-better like in China and Africa for example. The irony.
Ever heard of Noah Webster - known as the Father of American Scholarship and Education and the writer of the first Webster's dictionary?
Here's one of his quotes:
In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed... . No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.
Ever read the words prayed to Jesus Christ in the opening prayer of the First Continental Congress of the 13 colonies ?
Or how about George Washington's first inaugural address?
Even a cursory-knowledge of the historic American populace recognizes the devotion to Christ and to the Bible. ALL the classic American literature is CHRISTIAN SERMONS.
Goodness gracious man. If you want to change what America is built on, just be honest about it. But don't deny obvious history in the process.
I dont want to change what America is built on, I want to protect what America was built on from the Christians who want to hijack it and alter it for their own ends.
One need look no further then the first amendment and the first commandment to begin to see this fact.
One states worship no other gods under pain of death and one states worship any god you chose freely, or no god at all if you so choose.
read the constitution, Christianity, Jesus, and god are never mentioned, and religion is only mentioned in exclusionary terms.
No religion shall be sanctioned or encouraged by the government. America was the first country where the governments power was written, by Thomas Jefferson, to come from the governed, and not from god, or any divine authority.
The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion"
this was written while George Washington was president, and signed by John Adams.
Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible removing all Jesus's miracles and claims of divinity.
The quote of Thomas Jefferson about all men created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain rights was actually altered by congress to increase it's religious overtones
Thomas Jefferson actually wrote thing "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable."
in 1831 Christians were complaining that to that point, no US president had been a Christian.
So no, I don't want to change history or what the country was founded on, things like freedom from religion, free thought, escape from religious rule. It is Christians trying to change history, and the country
Go back and read what I wrote PLEASE - crystal clear history.
The stuff you're referring to was to prevent one denomination of Christianity from being favored over others - like making the Church of England the state church over Baptists - for example.
But Americans were devoted CHRISTIANS, okay. Read classic American literature, please. Tell me what it communicates to you. Possibly the name Johnathan Edwards rings a bell? Or George Whitefield? Please study real American history! Please.
I read what you wrote, and I know American history, unlike you I'm not trying to twist it to say our founding father were Christians, when they themselves stated on many occasions they were not, or that the country was founded on Christianity when the founding father said themselves it was not.
rather then study literature, study some real history, read the constitution, or any documents by our founding fathers, or laws and principles this country is suppose to follow and be founded on, and you will never see Christianity mentioned, you will never see Religion mentioned, except to exclude it.
You can also take things like our money, and the Pledge. my dad was 10 before god was added to either of those.
Also, read Washington again, belief in a god doesn't mean the Christian god.
for that matter many of our founding principles directly go against Christian principles. If we are founded on them why are they refuted by our forefathers, and our founding principles?
As another nail in your theories coffin, you're going to need to come up with an explanation on why deists and Freemasons would want to build a country on the principles of a religion they didn't believe in, and often showed contempt for?
If you're a christian you wouldn't found a country on Muslim principles, would you?
Did you read what I wrote about Noah Webster and the opening prayer of the First Continental Congress? About George Washington's first inaugural? Do you realize that the Second Great Awakening of Christianity led to the ending of slavery? Have you read any classic American literature yet? Please, study.
Yes, I read George Washington's first, and like I said, just because he mentions god proves nothing. A deist can mention god, a pantheist can mention god, a muslim, a jew, and on and on. His mentioning "god" doesn't prove he was a Christian or that he was talking about the Christian god.
American literature doesn't mean much. You can have christians in a country, doesnt make it a Christian country. Study actual History, please.
He went with his wife, but he never took part in sacrament, or communion, when his wife did he waited outside for her, he also stopped going to church. Not to mention he commented on his hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy of the day would put a stop to Christianities threat to peace.
you're also avoiding the main question, if we are founding on christian principles, which ones? if you can't even answer that you've already lost.
And Again, a portion, or even a majority, of the population being of a certain religion speaks nothing of the leaders personal beliefs, or the principles which those leaders founded the country on.
The main question is: which Christian principles? Ohhh.. life, liberty, inherent-value because we're created in God's image -- communicated in the Declaration of Independence too..
Honestly, if you cannot recognize the religion caused freedom injected into the institutional-strength of the US system of government - you best get some help.
non of those a Christian values. Life liberty and inherent value existed before Christianity, and they exist without it, or any religion.
Also, nowhere in any document, especially not the Declaration, which is not a legal document by the way, it's a declaration of revolution, is "created in gods image" mentioned.
God is never mentioned in the Constitution, not once.
And even if god is mentioned in the Declaration, there are thousands and thousands of named gods, prove it means the...
Even non-relgious folks can recognize the logical-connection between Christ dying for our sins and coming into our world to 'set the captives free' - and the U.S. system of government.
Recognize. Honestly. Your willful ignorance is dumbfounding.
get some objectivity, look at the facts, stop believing what you've been spoonfed and learn to think for yourself.
I have said nothing that isn't true, you should try reading your bible sometime and see how opposed to liberty it really is.
Also, as I came to realize recently, Jesus "dying for our sins" is laughable as an idea of anything close to love, or noble. it is a perversion of it if anything
I really have yet to meet an intelligent Christian though.
Or Maybe I should clarify, I have seen, heard, and met, many intelligent Christians, but as soon as they want to defend their beliefs they start sounding stupider and stupider. They all, like you, ignore the truth, reality, evidence, and even what's in their own bible. When they can't ignore it though, they tend to twist it in strange ways, like slavery in Jesus's day was actually job employment...
no life exists when god himself personally kills billions and commands the murder of millions of others.
No liberty exists when god commands anyone who doesnt love him be slaughtered or enslaved. That you must spend your life as a serf to him, in worship to him, in service to him.
Liberty is about as far from Christianity as you can get. Unless you're a Christian who doesnt believe in the bible.
No life exists when God kills billions.. commands murder...
Okay okay I'll get off on this rabbit-trail; let's do a little logic-exercise here ok. God creates life to begin with - which is where it originates. Then you state He's responsible for killing it. Which already makes your premise dubious..
But let's move on here; the consequence for original sin was that people aren't immortal - in other words DIE eventually -- so is God responsible for that death ?
It's god's system, he created it and all the rules within it, and he can supposedly see the future so he knows all the consequences of his actions, so it comes down to simply this, if you knew something you were going to do would cause people you love to suffer and die, would you do it? Any moral person would say no, but by your religion god decides to go ahead with it.
Okay so everyone owes his/her existence to God in the first place -- then you state that He's also responsible for the laws people break - causing him/her to die? Is this how you view it to this point?
Well I dont believe in your god, but let's go under the assumption he exists for the sake of this.
Yes he created people, and he also created the laws people break, he also created lucifer, and satan, if you believe they're two different people, so everything Lucifer has done, and will do, is god's fault.
You state you don't believe in my God now after you spent a considerable amount of time criticizing Him for murdering and raping and enslaving? Please explain? You're losing credibility quickly here...
Okay but laws exist to protect people - like not driving too fast in a car; they are for protection, and when people break them there are consequences. You understand the logic of having laws and consequences for breaking laws - right?
I'm not losing any credibility. I can disbelieve in god, yet still point out what your religion says he commands to do. Or are you saying book critics have no credibility?
you're missing the point. Let's take the tree. Well god created man, he created him to be curious, and he supposedly didnt want him to eat from the tree.
if he didnt want him to eat from the tree, why put it where he could reach it? Why make man curious? Why let the snake in the garden?
Wouldn't you be only concerned with the reality that God doesn't exist in your opinion, thereby making any real world actions He's responsible for a waste of time to criticize - especially the lengths you go to in criticism? Anyway..
Where in the Bible does it say that God 'created man to be curious' ? It only says he commanded man not to eat the fruit. Unless you can show me otherwise?
You're creating stuff now - which is unobjective as I pointed out before.
Belief in Christianity is actively harmful to the world, so it is not a waste of time to point out to people the countless flaws in their fairytale beliefs.
It doesn't need to say god created man curious, does it? God created man, and all matter and energy in the universe by your beliefs, therefore any personality traits of man would only exist because god created them that way. People are curious by nature, that's a fact, if god created us, he instilled in us curiosity
Exactly, it doesn't state that God created man to be curious - you created that concept. It only states that man had the option to eat the fruit or not, and that there would be consquences for eating it. Anything else is going beyond what the text communicates.
In other words, God isn't responsible for humans breaking laws. Man is responsible for breaking laws, including the original one. But the question is: when the original one brought death - was God involved in the immortality - death?
yes, it is going beyond the text, but it is still a logical inference, if god didnt create man to be curious, we would not be curious because god created everything, including the human brain.
Also, yes god is responsible for humans breaking laws and I already explained how.
1. god put the tree where Adam could reach it.
2. he made man curious (even if you dont except that fine.(
The bible actually communicates that people have a non-corporeal soul, that exercises independent willpower; which is why God didn't just pick the fruit up and shove it down man's throat, but simply warned him about the consequences of eating it - then stepped back and watched. The context is pretty clear in terms of this willpower. Curiousity and temptation weren't excuses for following through. You torture the text and concepts by manufacturing something other than what's obvious in the text.
Okay I hoped we could follow a line-of-logic based on how historic orthodoxy interprets biblical text - because it seemed to be your beef, but now you're objecting to the text on every possible front - so we cannot even go through with the exercise from a Christian-perspective's premise because you're going even beyond that to some wholly new interpretation far-afield from Christian orthodoxy.
You miss the point entirely again. Let's say for argument god didn't make man curious, he still put put the tree where Adam and Eve could put it, and he still created Lucifer. If he was all powerful and all knowing, he knew before he did any of those things what would happen, so why did he do it, other then to get them to sin? If he didn't want them to eat the fruit, why'd he create that fruit in the first place?
Would we be free if God forces us into situations where we cannot make decisions to harm our bodies or souls? Should God remove every possible danger to us? Is that freedom?
Is it less free, or more free? To me it's less free -- but God's motive is to give us more freedom, the way He did in the beginning. We often get tempted to do bad stuff - sometimes we give in sometimes not but we're free to decide. It was the same in the beginning.
Without freedom love would be rendered meaningless.
God should not remove "every possible danger" but neither should he create more dangers to us. He also should get rid of Lucifer, that's moral, that's the right thing to do.
If you had children who you loved and cherished and someone came along and began to make them suffer, and was trying to get them to do evil, wouldn't you want to get rid of that person? Wouldn't you want to protect your children? That doesn't limit their freedoms. I'm morally superior to your god, and so are you
How many dangers should He get rid of? Where do you derive the quantity that's sufficient? How many dangers are good?
There was ONE tree in the garden that was dangerous. EVERY OTHER tree was ok. If you remove the one dangerous one - wouldn't that remove every possible danger? Hm..
Lucifer should go? Why? You get to eternally exist - but you arbitrarily decide Lucifer shouldn't? Interesting.
You still haven't refuted the principle that the freedom to choose danger equals freedom = love.
Why should Lucifer go? are you serious? Lets see, for starters he opposed god and god kills everyone else who does that, so why not Lucifer, and I already explained why or are you this stupid?
If you have kids, and you see a drug dealer trying to get them to do crack are you going to go watch tv, or call the cops?
But by your logic God is evil - so why would Lucifer opposing God mean he should go? You're so confused on the logic you communicate here - I cannot keep up with it.
But back to the question: you see Lucifer as some danger, but the danger he poses is temptation for humans - who willingly give in to temptation. Plus you're still communicating that God should remove some arbitrary quantity of dangers - but haven't refuted the principle that freedom to avoid danger equals freedom = love.
Well try to keep up here, it's not that hard. Your god is evil, based on what the bible says about him, like the smell of blood and burnt flesh being pleasing to him, but for this argument I'm using your idea that god is good and Lucifer is bad.
It's funny how you expect me to answer all your questions, but can never answer a single one it turn. Very typical of Christians, they can't answer anything, and if they do it's to and buts and if's and maybe's.
Again, there's a difference between dangers that exist, and being pushed into those dangers by a so called "loving god."
Christians who win a football game, or get a promotion, or survive a natural disaster, thank god for it. Well if call is all powerful, and the author of all that exists, then the bad things that happen are as much his fault as the good.
but sticking on the actual topic, James Madison, a huge player in our constitution was an atheist and never missed a chance to mock Christianity. The writer of the Declaration was a deist who mocked Christianity and hoped it would fade away, which it has begun to
Then of course the signing of a legally binding document stating we were not founded on Christian values and being praised that we were founded on secular and liberal values
all those things are much more concrete then your "evidence"
The founders designed a respresentative republic - meaning We the People elect our representatives. Picking out some select framers who disagreed with Christianity (up for debate to begin with) is irrelevant when it's the populace where the power is. This freedom comes from Christian doctrine - as I'm explaining to you. Lots of the famous American universities were essentially seminaries to begin with too. The father of American public education, Noah Webster required reading of the bible.
Yes, the founders designed a representative republic, but they are the ones that designed the government, the principles of the country, and the constitution, and they were atheist, deist, agnostics, and Christians.
The creators decided the founding principles, then the people agreed with them. Also, don't forget, America was the first country in the world who's founding states it's power comes from it's people, and not from god.
Also, just because we elect our representatives doesn't mean those representatives will be Christians, and by the Constitution even if they are Christians they aren't allowed to try and make laws or rules based on their religion.
Also it's not up for debate if some of our founders aren't Christians, they said themselves they weren't and openly mocked Christianity.
Hey we're going round and round here on American history - which is interesting. But just want to point out to you that my view, and I'm pretty sure the framers' view - is absolutely not some kind of theocracy where any religion or non-religion or world view is forced or stongly encouraged on anyone.
Even though I'm confident that most of the principles built into the American founding are based on bible principles - I'm not stating one iota that people shouldn't be free to reject religion.
To me it's the freedom to reject God, religion, secularism, Christianity, atheism or whatever and to freely choose whatever world view you choose, as long as it's respectful to humanity, that is what Christianity preaches and what America is built on.
I really don't think that atheists or secularists being so hostile toward real Christians is merited. I respect you, and I respect everyone regardless of his / her world view - unless he / she is disrespectful to me first.
Actually that's the exact opposite of what Christianity preaches, don't you even know your own bible?
God commands you to kill anyone who isn't a Christian, so unless you're murdering Muslims, Jews, and Atheists, you're not a true Christian.
Jesus says not believing in him is the one unforgivable sin that will cast you to hell. Freedom of religion, and freedom of thought are what Christianity preaches against and seeks to destroy.
read Deuteronomy 13:7-12 or Deuteronomy 17:2-5 or Deuteronomy 13:13-19 or Zechariah 13:3 or (2 Chronicles 15:12-13
all endorse or directly command you to kill non-Christians, or you saying there's another way to read, "If your son or brother, or wife or friend entices you to serve other gods do not pity him, nor shield him, nor spare him, but kill him. You shall stone him to death because he sought to lead you astray."
Atheists are not hostile to Christians, maybe so to the religion, but as all atheists have notice, when it comes to religion no matter how polite you are about it, Christians will always accuse you of being hateful, and hostile.
And on respect, why should faith, the principle of believing in something without evidence or in spite of evidence to the contradiction of, be worthy of respect?
I certainly don't accuse you or anyone of being hateful or hostile. And I didn't mean that atheists are necessarily hostile to Christians - I meant more in the context of the debate over American's Christian history or non-Christian history, that even if it's Christian, I don't think atheists or secularists should be hostile toward the real Christian world view.
To me, it preaches the freedom of every world view, as long as they are respectful.
It souldn't be a debate. I do not deny that most Americans are, and always have been, Christians, nor Christianities influence on the country in the past and present, we simply werent founded on Christian Values however.
and on the "real christian world view" I wont get to into it, but in Africa I believe it is there's one Christian gathering children and people to join his Christian army and slay non-believers, and there's also a Christian over there working to save those children. When asked if he, or the killer, were the "true Christian" he said he didn't know that the bible justified both their stances, he just thought it was more moral to stop the fighting.
Also, I love the term "interpret text" Please enlightening to how many "interpretations" there are to, "Anyone born outside of Jerusalem may be a slave."
Yes not everything I said is directly in the bible, but it's not "interpretation" it's following the simple line of logic. Such as, if god is all powerful and all knowing, why did he create Lucifer to begin with, and why doesn't he destroy him? The fact he did makes him as guilty as the guy building the suicide bombs
things I say that are in the bible are not interpretations of the bible, it's what it actually says, or are you denying that the bible says god likes the smell of blood and burnt flesh? Or that it doesn't say god commands the slaughter of all non-believers? Or that it endorses slavery, genocide, and infanticide?
these are not misinterpretations, it's what the bible actually says, try reading the bible sometime, it is one of the most immoral doctrines ever written.
The slavery, genocide, infanticide stuff is quickly vaporized when people examine the text in its context. It's why you throw it all against the wall at one time - because every misconception would be refuted if you investigate each one, one at a time.
It's always the same thing - every slander of the text is thrown into one big pot without specific references to the text and its context. I suppose you believe one of them might stick, or people won't bother going through the whole litany.
lol sure it is. I simply love it when religious people try to justify. I don't need to throw it all at once, I'll be perfectly happy to take it one at a time.
Telling you whats in your book isn't slander by the way.
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16
The nations ancient Israel interacted w/ - openly practiced and spread the practices of sacrificing their own children to demons, eating human-flesh in the process, and carried sexually-transmitted plagues possibly from sex w/ corpses. God judges nations for good reason - so destructive practices like this don't spread to the world.
Nazi Germany was judged harshly and shown no mercy by nations who went to war with its populace. It would be almost non-existent if not for reconstruction help.
Also, you ask me what basis I have for dictating right and wrong, so let me as you, what basis do you have?
It's not the bible, and how do I know this? Well for starters I don't believe you would start raping and murdering and torturing people tomorrow if you stopped believing in the bible, but more importantly, you would not agree with anything in the bible if it was your basis. You would be doing and not doing things because it said so, not because you feel they're wrong
but the falsehood of Christianity is irrelevant to whether or not we were found off Christian values. Life and liberty are secular values, they are not Christian values, nor are the exclusive to one group, many groups share these principles.
You have to be able to point to actually evidence we were founded on Christian principles, not, "I'm a Christian and these are my principles so we were founded on Christian values."
No, it's not even a question to honest people, they know you're wrong.
You pointed to no evidence, aside from mentions of god, but as I said, god does not mean the Christian god, and you are also making assumptions.
When the founders themselves say directly "America was in no way founded on Christian principles" and that America was founded on liberal and secular values, to claim the opposite makes you look like a fool.
Noah Webster. Noah Webster. Noah Webster. Opening prayer of the First Continental Congress. Opening prayer of the First Continental Congress. Classic American literature. Classic American literature. To name a few of the examples that make it obvious.
Yes I did pont to evidence - but you're NOT reading the evidence I pointed to - are you?
The Tripoli treaty was involving a mostly Muslim region - and America was seeking their HELP -- is this correct? Or am I thinking of something else?
those aren't evidence. You say I shouldn't make assumptions following the logic of biblical claims, then make assumptions based on less then that.
For the first opening prayer you have to look at the reason for it, and it was objected to by members of congress. It was a political move, not a sign of our founding.
You evidence is open to your interpretation doesnt make it correct
A treaty by American law is considered legally binding and enforceable, unlike a dictionary or american literature
You cannot just ignore clear examples of historic American giants like Noah Webster, the First Continental Congress of the original 13 colonies and WHO they PRAYED to / what they prayed, classic American literature, the Great Awakenings and their influence, etc -- and illogically claim it's not American history.
You cannot just cherry pick your evidence and ignore what contradicts your premise.
I just read Noah Webster's entire history, and he wrote the first dictionary, that was the sum of his achievements. he was not a founding father, he wasn't a politician, he has nothing to do with anything relevant.
Again, many of the members of the congress objected to there being any prayer. Not all of them prayed. Look at the context.
American literature is not proof of anything the founders intended or thought.
Noah Webster wasn't a politician? Wrong - he served in the Connecticut House of Representatives, so your information about him is completely incorrect. Furthermore he wrote textbooks, political essays for the Federalist party, founded New York's first daily newspaper, etc.. I could go on about his influence. You're clearly ignorant about real American history.
It has been specifically stated by our founding father that not only were we not founded on Christian values, but that we were founded on liberal and secular values.
Also most of our founding father openly criticized Christianity.
Thomas Jefferson who wrote the Deceleration of independence said Christianity was a threat to peace and liberty and deserved to be ridiculed, so if he mentions a creator, it's not likely he meant a christian one.
I'm not creating anything, I'm stating either things in the bible, or things that logically go along with Christian beliefs in him.
But answer my previous question, I'd like to know how big of a waste of my time it's going to be to talk to you. You'd be surprised by the number of Christians that answer those questions wrong.
there's a difference between making laws to protect people, and having consequences for those laws, and trying to make people break them and then punishing them for it. that's actually illegal and it's called entrapment.
We can take abortion as well. God knows if this person gets pregnant, they will have an abortion, so why doesnt he stop them from getting pregnant?
if god didnt create the tree, or satan, then no laws would be broken.
Lucifer only exist because god created him, and god knew if he created him he would bring suffering, and tempt people to sin, but god made him anyway, therefore all those that Lucifer tempts, or tricks, it's god's fault for creating Lucifer and for not getting rid of him
your god needs to be held accountable for his actions just like everyone else is. His actions alone created original sin, as well as most sins committed today, and all suffering that happens is his responsibility.
If I create a bomb and it kills someone, it's my fault they died, and I have to take responsibility, why doesnt your god?
thats besides the point of my initial statement though. people die eventually, that's fine, dont have to blame god for it, but if he ends a life by say, drowning a person because they don't love him, or telling you to kill your neighbor because he doesnt fear god in the same way as you, yes, you can blame god for that certainly.
It's always amazing to me that people thank god for everything good but never blame him for the bad when he's responsible for everything
Stay with me here - let's not jump ahead of ourselves; I'm trying to fully comprehend your view here in a coherent, logic picture. Then we'll move on.
these sexual pro-versions that you call are completely natural urges and instincts.
dpfindgod 1 year ago
FUCK YOU
You dont think the Muslim world at large likes the same shit we do? If anything a bridge that connects the two cultures is the same stuff youre railing against: movies, music, video games, etc. they love it!
..But no, it's not some of the things that have happen in history that makes Muslims hate the west. No, it's god damn Hollywood.
Shifting the blame to something mundane—something only an extremist would find offensive—classy.
You're cut with the same scissors as our enemies.
vitaminec109 2 years ago
How. Freaking. Delusional.
You forgot to change the word "God" to "Allah" when you spoke of your (cough-cough) non-secularist brothers-in-arms in the middle east. Don't try and paint this as though it's east AND west against the secularist left; those Muslims that attack us despise YOUR religion just as much as you despise theirs. The difference is that the secular left doesn't go attacking them like you and your far-right wacko political puppets (i.e. Dubbya).
worldsworstjukebox 2 years ago
Yes, Atheists base their morality on what they see animals do such as chimps, gorillas, baboons, etc... For example, a lesbian Atheist once told me that her sexual preference isn't that unnatural as we Christians claim because she read that some apes have shown homosexual tendencies. So I asked her: Some chimps have been observed to cannibalize their own. Does that mean that a serial killer such as Jeffrey Dahmer who ate his victims was just doing a NATURAL ACT because chimps also do it?"
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
It's a logical impossibility for someone who doesn't recognize objective morality to dictate laws & social behavior that would benefit a society. Atheists produce their own subjective morality as they go based on their lusts,desires & personal egos. This is why Atheists in Europe and America have sunk into a sea of destructive behavior that has turned their daughters into whores, sons into drug addicts and killers, school shootings, and genocides such as those committed during the 20th century.
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
I can offer a few details, product of my own research about Atheism in Europe and its effects. Is this what we in America really want for our families?
Drugs in Atheistic Europe:
===
*68 percent increase in the number of recorded drug offenses for the past ten years in UK according to the Home Office.
*The cost of drug-related crime in England and Wales is estimated at £13 billion.
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
*The United Nations' International Narcotics Control Board (INCB) stated that many estimations have been made of the total revenue of the illicit drug industry, most ranging from $300 billion to $500 billion.
*In 1994 this figure would have been larger than the international trade in iron and steel and motor vehicles and about the same size as the total international trade in textiles.
*Much more...
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Legalized prostitution in Atheistic Europe:
===
*In Germany,prostitution is legal.
*Council of Europe's main goals is to look at ways to standardize laws on prostitution in the continent.
*Amsterdam has 11,000 registered prostitutes & their prostitution profession pays taxes to the government (it benefits from prostitution). Government there is like the Big McDaddy pimp of whores.
*Kosovo is now considered Europe's door for entrance of Asian prostitutes & child pornography.
*Much more...
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Legalized pedophilia in Atheistic Europe:
===
*The Lisbon Treaty permits pedophilia.
*Existence of legal organizations such as the Danish Pedophile Association.
*Until 1995, there was an European public magazine for pedophiles called Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia.
*The Netherlands Society for Psychiatry criticized the success of a petition to decriminalize pedophilia there.
*The pedophile Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) reached the 240,000 members during the 80's
*Much more...
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Legalized incest in Atheistic Europe:
===
*In the Netherlands, consensual incest is no longer prosecuted.
*In Feb 20, 2007, in Germany, an incestuous family pair won a court case and were allowed to marry each other.Their names are Patrick and Susan.
*In France, incest is not a crime.
*Much more...
Those are the fruits of Atheism. So, keep away from our families especially our children. Change your ways or go away!
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Where do you get this from?
yitih 2 years ago
You have no idea about why this has been legalized do you?-.- No clue? At all?
yitih 2 years ago
killing is human nature too...
in fact i know a couple killers, so i'm not just talking shit
sexuality is fine if one is married or engaged or something
tooreal556 2 years ago
sexuality is human nature.
XxDEFTONESxX 2 years ago
Atheism has a lot to do with liberalism. That's why liberals believe in perversion of families, sex, etc. It's because they don't believe in God, and they don't follow the morals of the Bible.
They spread their perversion through the media, and through our public schools. Even Kindergarteners are being brainwashed with gay marriage.
The left is trying to take over our country, but the conservatives are gonna wake up, and put an end to this perversion of America.
It's only a matter of time.
webmann1200 2 years ago
More like the greatest Bullshit story of all time.
When it comes to big time bullshit, a con-man doesnt hold a candle to a Clergyman.
The entire thing is such phony nonsense you should be embarrassed to admit you've bought into it.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Actually the most right wing person in Europe is more to the left then the most radical leftist in america.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Oh how convenient it all is when it comes to the bible.
I suppose we should ignore the ten commandments then, those were rules just given to the Jews in the old testament, so they must have only been for the jews, and we all know it's not fair to point to the old testament to criticize Christianity because they're all about the new Testament and Jeeeezus.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Hmm, Europe in general is more secular than the US. Do moderate Muslims rant without end about Europe's "anti-family" secularism?
notparistexas 2 years ago
Yes, you have enemies in your own country and planet for that matter. This is preposterous.
Also, zero population growth is now a radical idea?
Stupidity is dangerous if you get my drift.
mooktank 2 years ago
"we are still a nation under god"
actually we were never a nation under god. read the constitution/bill of rights. that little line wasn't inserted until the 1970s because of cold war paranoia. funny how christianity gets its strongest foothold whenever poeple are the most scared and weak.
TheRealEricLester 2 years ago
Thank you
31L33N11 2 years ago
wow its finally happened, the atheist antidote admits that christians think like al queda. at least he isn't lying anymore.
TheRealEricLester 2 years ago
course I could go on. Let's see, only two of the commandment are actually laws.
God directly commands the slaughter of over 2 million people, as well as the untold number of people and complete destruction of 65 cities because they aren't Christians. He orders the killing on babies born to non-Christians, and forced abortions of pregnant women if the father was a non-christian.
So exactly what "values" of Christianity are we founded on? the one that says thoughts are as bad as deeds?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
try reading your bible sometime, or just the 613 laws, that state slavery is ok, tells you who to enslave, how to mark them as slaves, and how much to sell them for. Also says to kill non-believers, gays, and women that cheat, though not men. Jesus says if you think about something you're as guilty as doing it. That belief in him is more important then your actions in life. That you can be Gandhi but will go to hell for not believing in him.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
then of course the laughable notion that god loves you. Would you torture your kids forever for not loving you enough? Well god will. Then of course Jesus suggestion to people self mutilation. God commanding villages be destroyed, except for the virgin girls, jee, I wonder why. God says the smell of blood is pleasing to him. Of course Lot offering his daughters to be gangraped then sleeping with them himself, and God letting Job to tortured just to show up satan.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
How did we go from American history to your buck-shot nonsense? Focus, focus. You're only exposing your pre-determined agenda - which isn't objective. Everything you're posting is cut & paste misinformation - missing real, true investigation. Plus the pace you're typing it is insane, like you get lots of practice cutting & pasting it. Ha. Funny.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Again, answer the question, which principles of Christianity? can't answer that, can you?"
Also, this is the normal pace at which I type, not my fault you type slowly.
Also, no, try studying, nothing I've said is untrue or misinformation, it is simply the facts.
As I said, I did get off topic, the fact the bible is a bunch of crap is not the point, the point is, we were not founded of any religion, we were founded on secularism.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
but aside from explaining which principles you think we were founded on from your fairy tale, explain the treaty of Tripoli, which clearly states,
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;"
chaoszieg 2 years ago
You're going off the reservation here. You're not even squaring with reality.
The stuff I'm communicating is clearly documented; but your stuff is dubious beyond comprehension. Not sure if I can even reason with you here, so I'll stop.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Yes maybe pointing out all the evil and wicked deeds of the bible is off topic, just wondering what "Christian principles" you think we're supposedly founded on? The ones that supports slavery, rape, genocide, and infanticide?
That aside though, your understanding of history and reality is flawed, try to learn the truth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but assuming you are a Christian, so your eyes are already blurred to see what you want.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
If you're going to say we were founded on Christian principles, you have to have proof to back it up, but the proof is against you.
If you want to use the declaration, it was mostly written by Thomas Jefferson, a deist, who thought very little of Christianity, he thought it deserved to be ridiculed, and it's ideas were laughable.
If you want to use the constitution, it mentions only keeping any religion from effecting the laws of the country
chaoszieg 2 years ago
And hey Brock, lets smell reality, most countries in the world are laughing at us and don't like us because of people like Bush, the republican party, and right wingers.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
' .. because of people like Bush, the republican party, and right wingers. '
Be careful not to sell your soul and security for short-term popularity. Too much on the line.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
sorry, the religious right already sold their souls for perceived security.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
I'm not talking about the religious right - I'm talking about everyone who promotes wise policies in spite of popularity.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Uhh... so Muslim's that believe in beating their wives, selling their daughters, female circumcision, stoning their daughters to death for falling in love, don't like the "godlessness of America"? I'd say that's a strong case to keep it up.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
And of course you and the rest of "god fearing" world are forced by the "secular left" at gun point to watch "godless secular left American TV."
Give me a break!
Kailoa36 2 years ago
Whereas Dawkins (in 4 Horsemen) has said that it is good to have atheists across the political spectrum, Brock clearly wants to see Christianity as being predominantly right wing, thereby doubly alienating Atheist conservatives (like me & possibly Karl Rove) & Christian Socialists.
Nice going Brock - another well considered rant!
tdp1909 2 years ago
AtheistAntidote... youre letting your hate and discontent get a tad bit ahead of something.... Our free will is from the Good Lord. Im from Georgia..and Im here to tell you..Hollywood, New York City and Washington be damned.. Dont fall into the trap of thinking they are America... OUr media already thinks that entirely too much.
tonysshadow 2 years ago
and your pretty deluded. there are alot more than 2 sides of america.
Noyru 2 years ago
Everyone generalizes too much. The problem is that ignorance. EVERY society has perversion or whatever. Americans are just very loud when it comes to the media. If they were free and didnt get murdered for it. they would have an equally perverse group of people. (I'm pro-family, but the generalizing has to stop, everywhere.)
Noyru 2 years ago
You know, he keeps talking about perversion, but he doesn't give any real examples.
dylantuzyk 2 years ago
this is the third time ive heard you mention "Feminism" what exactly do you have against women brock?
ameldia 2 years ago
Probably the fact that a lot of them have the good sense to stay far, far away from him?
Ugh. I would, at least.
lucifersgarden 2 years ago
You spoke to an Egyptian political leader about western media being "pumped" into his country? Wouldn't they have to consciously allow it in? Furthermore, they mind that but not being bombed?
2punchpikey 2 years ago
He said it. He wants his children to grow up in the "purity and bliss of innocence,".... so... naivety? Ignorance? Right.
What a tool you are Brock.
xx13moons 2 years ago
I suppose breeding like bacteria and destroying the environment is "pro-life," huh Brock?
Perrine234 2 years ago
So your saying the freedoms they hate us for are because of us Godless Liberals? You finally GET IT BROCK!!! Liberals are the ones who truly love and appreciate AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM!
savagechuck 2 years ago
Secularity is just as cosmopolitan as any other faith or system of beliefs. YOU are the reason that extreme secular left hates religion and christianity and wants to produce flavour of love season 4 and 5.
YOU are to blame for oversexualised and demoralised society.
Demanding integration and damning any views that are not the same as yours cause protest and hatred.
There is nothing wrong with being religious; there is just something wring with you!
GO EAT SHIT YOU NAZI
fostaar 2 years ago
WHy do you think so many muslims flee to europe and not the US? Because you are fucking christian fundies who dont accept shit (the religious right that is) the US has NEVER been a christian nation.. Here in denmark we actually ARE a christian natio, but a large majority of us are atheists and guess what, we have alot of muslims here who mainly live quite well.. so fuck off with your fucking lies you have no idea how the world actually looks
MaMastoast 2 years ago
What the heck is a "moderate Muslim" ? Is it like an ELCA Christian? Is it basically someone who doesn't adhere strongly to the tenets of the system of faith they claim to follow? I'm confused. Islam is not shy about claiming the object of their hatred is the "infidels" (read anyone who does not believe in Allah and Mohammad) and that we must all convert or be killed.
Why compromise a powerful message by essentially forming a theoretical alliance with any group of people who deny Christ?
Recon777x 2 years ago
lol, you admire the middle east? why don't you go there? the US was founded by secularist, there's nothing perverted about it, the muslims in the middle east thinks that for a woman to show her legs is perverted, and you choose to admire them? You creationist assholes need to stop blame everyone else for what's wrong and take a long look at yourselves, Every atheist I know is moral and good to people, not every christian I know is like that.
medallish 2 years ago
first the religion of muslims is very beautiful second if you read the coran you will find that the woman can show her faces, you are ignorant in afghanistan is legal for women show her faces but some terrorrist groups in poor places just dont aprove it, do you think that all the muslims hates the women? you cant be so idiot, HITLER WAS CHRISTIAN but i dont think that all the christians are like him and bush killed people in the war, but wait there is a ommandment DONT KILL
nic19913 2 years ago
I bet your time spent in Iraq was in a tank emblazoned with the words "Jesus killed Mohammed" shooting at little kids that dared critcize you. That's just my opinion.
christopher81818 2 years ago
No one is telling you how to live your life you religious hypocrite.
You're the ones who are trying to ban evolution, put prayer in schools, kill homosexuals, and make a theocracy out of our country. We are the ones who are defending constitution and principle of equality.
If you like theocratic regimes so much go to Iran, they are having a blast, literally lol
IC1101 2 years ago
LOL I think much of the world sees your fundamental religious nutjobs, like yourself. if anything much of the world would be behind Obama, not george Bush.
You need to get out more atheist Antidote.
Also. "SECULAR LEFT" does not mean atheist.
Your only 'God fearing allies' are going to be radical muslims, and other fundamental wack jobs. No wonder you guys support millitant dictators, its in your belief system to do so.
cjunk351 2 years ago
Brock rite becuz he been thier and he know abowt religin gooder then you does. We shoodnt help Europe they is fags.
ClickPanic 2 years ago
LMAO thanks, awesome commnt. lol
:)
Well done.
cjunk351 2 years ago
Funny how 90% of your audience are atheists. You're a sideshow freak, here for our amusement.
btw its nice to see people who buy into different fairy tales can stop killing each other long enough to agree on spewing hate at people who depend on logic and facts.
Maybe if you work real hard together you can bring back the dark ages!
If you have faith, then the next time you get sick don't rely on science, just pray about it. If you're really doing some gods will, he'll keep you around.
Nilopollis 2 years ago
europe is largly athiest. if the muslims were that bothered about it they would be targerting eruope over america. you really make me sick. your a hitler wanna be
ishimaru09 2 years ago
Great. This guy has just admitted the right wing is pretty similar to fundamentalist Islam. What a brilliant argument for Christianity. I guess he must be behind the Taliban and Al Qaeda all the way.
Why do the Islamists target America in particular, above the 'godless Europeans?'
dogblessamerica 2 years ago
It is not the moderate Muslims you should be worried about, or who you seem to have been talking to.... they sound more similar to Sahid Qutb, who spawned the anti-western Jihad movement which was REJECTED by moderate mulsims at home.
There are many muslims who would dream of the freedom and lack of religious persecution in America - the sort of things you wish to attack.
dogblessamerica 2 years ago
You is rite. Athist left commys is the problem in America and we need to get them out of hear.
ClickPanic 2 years ago
or vice versa. but at least we agree in a separated America.
i wonder what the US would be like without Us- i mean yeah it would perpetuate for a while, but without medical doctors, teachers, engineers, or scientists. i wonder if it would last a decade... and amongst the confusion, i bet another state would invade and conquer... interesting experiment, give me a copy if you find a town that wants to succeed from the union enough to do what you propose. (besides the Amish)
morthim 2 years ago
thems fight'n words brock.
this vid tells me that you are aware of the weakness of mixing religous and political views, upping the anty, becoming more and more seperatist doesnt help strenghten it. i hear more and more of this crap these days. i wonder if you realize where all this "talk" eventually ends up...
your argument is based on a false dichotomy. you seek to make people choose when they dont have too.
take it to the septic tank.
MpowerdAPE 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Brock, I've shaken their hands as well, and they were always quick to tell me that they love americans and could even manage to sound convincing. Unfortunately, they are not the right ones to ask about why they hate us.
Try asking the ones that are shooting at us why they hate us, and then maybe I'll be impressed with the insights you have to offer.
And by the way, we killed more than a 100 thousand of their sons and daughters. They are not going to love us.
zebraone100 2 years ago
Comment removed
zebraone100 2 years ago
They don't hate Americans for the secular left. They hate Americans for the same reason many Americans hate them:
Their religious leaders told them to.
zebraone100 2 years ago
whats the song on begining
trilerkiler 2 years ago
True, Pres Obama should have apologized to the world for most of the commenters on this video here - not for America's arrogance.
Of course lots of the commenters here could be in Europe. We hope, right. Embarrassing.
Good thing is that non-believers in God or Allah or SOMETHING supernatural - tend not to reproduce too much because 'healthy' sex is often abhorrent to them.
Interesting situation, if you really ponder it.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
You know what else is interesting?
That most atheists around today were probably born from religious homes and not atheist homes.
Religious belifs are not inherited.
lyncher88 2 years ago
I believe you mean that religious beliefs aren't always inherited.
KriimIanga 2 years ago
People usually get influenced strongly by what mom and dad teach them. Religious people who teach their kids to trust God, love his/her neighbors and practice healthy-sex causing healthy families will outnumber the people who use sex only to humiliate humanity.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
And what makes you think thats the way things are going? There are more atheists around now than in the past.
lyncher88 2 years ago
There have always been people who reject God. Not sure that there're more now than in the past. Genesis begins w/ humanity rejecting God. The Bible talks about the road to destruction being wide and the road to redemption being narrow, and it was written long ago.
Plus Christianity is growing strongly in lots of places! Good news.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Religion today is a mere shadow of what it has been in the past. Some hundred years ago the pope could snap his fingers and have anyones head chopped clean off. Even the way christianity is practiced today is different from what it was in the past.
lyncher88 2 years ago
It's good that the Pope isn't getting people's heads chopped off now; he's supposed to be a church leader not a law-enforcement leader. Good for religion today that the Pope sticks to religion.
Some things about the way Christianity is practiced today is worse, I agree; like the institutional-strength is missing and people desperately illiterate when it comes to God's Word.
But in some places those things are growing-for-the-better like in China and Africa for example. The irony.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
well in America at least, I think world wide, Christianity is the fastest shrinking religious group.
The number of Atheists is the fastest growing group. Great news
chaoszieg 2 years ago
I agree Christianity is in trouble in America. No argument here. But stuff changes and the foundation in America isn't lost yet.
In my opinion, atheists only put themselves in the world-of-hurt by spreading the humanist worldview, ironically. Be careful what you wish for.
The western-world built on Christianity is in pretty good shape historically; but we're moving toward financial-collapse today. Recognize.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
the western world was not built on Christianity.
America was built on humanism, secularism, not Christianity. Most of our founding fathers hated Christianity, or considered it laughable.
Thomas Jefferson did believe in Jesus but he thought the idea of him being the son of god was laughable and that Christians deserved to be ridiculed.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Ever heard of Noah Webster - known as the Father of American Scholarship and Education and the writer of the first Webster's dictionary?
Here's one of his quotes:
In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed... . No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Ever read the words prayed to Jesus Christ in the opening prayer of the First Continental Congress of the 13 colonies ?
Or how about George Washington's first inaugural address?
Even a cursory-knowledge of the historic American populace recognizes the devotion to Christ and to the Bible. ALL the classic American literature is CHRISTIAN SERMONS.
Goodness gracious man. If you want to change what America is built on, just be honest about it. But don't deny obvious history in the process.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
I dont want to change what America is built on, I want to protect what America was built on from the Christians who want to hijack it and alter it for their own ends.
One need look no further then the first amendment and the first commandment to begin to see this fact.
One states worship no other gods under pain of death and one states worship any god you chose freely, or no god at all if you so choose.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
read the constitution, Christianity, Jesus, and god are never mentioned, and religion is only mentioned in exclusionary terms.
No religion shall be sanctioned or encouraged by the government. America was the first country where the governments power was written, by Thomas Jefferson, to come from the governed, and not from god, or any divine authority.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion"
this was written while George Washington was president, and signed by John Adams.
Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible removing all Jesus's miracles and claims of divinity.
The quote of Thomas Jefferson about all men created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain rights was actually altered by congress to increase it's religious overtones
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Thomas Jefferson actually wrote thing "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable."
in 1831 Christians were complaining that to that point, no US president had been a Christian.
So no, I don't want to change history or what the country was founded on, things like freedom from religion, free thought, escape from religious rule. It is Christians trying to change history, and the country
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Go back and read what I wrote PLEASE - crystal clear history.
The stuff you're referring to was to prevent one denomination of Christianity from being favored over others - like making the Church of England the state church over Baptists - for example.
But Americans were devoted CHRISTIANS, okay. Read classic American literature, please. Tell me what it communicates to you. Possibly the name Johnathan Edwards rings a bell? Or George Whitefield? Please study real American history! Please.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
I read what you wrote, and I know American history, unlike you I'm not trying to twist it to say our founding father were Christians, when they themselves stated on many occasions they were not, or that the country was founded on Christianity when the founding father said themselves it was not.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
rather then study literature, study some real history, read the constitution, or any documents by our founding fathers, or laws and principles this country is suppose to follow and be founded on, and you will never see Christianity mentioned, you will never see Religion mentioned, except to exclude it.
You can also take things like our money, and the Pledge. my dad was 10 before god was added to either of those.
Also, read Washington again, belief in a god doesn't mean the Christian god.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
for that matter many of our founding principles directly go against Christian principles. If we are founded on them why are they refuted by our forefathers, and our founding principles?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
As another nail in your theories coffin, you're going to need to come up with an explanation on why deists and Freemasons would want to build a country on the principles of a religion they didn't believe in, and often showed contempt for?
If you're a christian you wouldn't found a country on Muslim principles, would you?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Did you read what I wrote about Noah Webster and the opening prayer of the First Continental Congress? About George Washington's first inaugural? Do you realize that the Second Great Awakening of Christianity led to the ending of slavery? Have you read any classic American literature yet? Please, study.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Yes, I read George Washington's first, and like I said, just because he mentions god proves nothing. A deist can mention god, a pantheist can mention god, a muslim, a jew, and on and on. His mentioning "god" doesn't prove he was a Christian or that he was talking about the Christian god.
American literature doesn't mean much. You can have christians in a country, doesnt make it a Christian country. Study actual History, please.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Okay, George Washington was a member of the Church of England - Christian church. He refers to the Christian God.
American literature means a whole lot. The most widespread, quality literature in American history is CHRISTIAN SERMONS. Recognize.
The published literature, best-selling literature, mainstream literature - is part and parcel of the world creating it.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
He went with his wife, but he never took part in sacrament, or communion, when his wife did he waited outside for her, he also stopped going to church. Not to mention he commented on his hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy of the day would put a stop to Christianities threat to peace.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
you're also avoiding the main question, if we are founding on christian principles, which ones? if you can't even answer that you've already lost.
And Again, a portion, or even a majority, of the population being of a certain religion speaks nothing of the leaders personal beliefs, or the principles which those leaders founded the country on.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The main question is: which Christian principles? Ohhh.. life, liberty, inherent-value because we're created in God's image -- communicated in the Declaration of Independence too..
Honestly, if you cannot recognize the religion caused freedom injected into the institutional-strength of the US system of government - you best get some help.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
non of those a Christian values. Life liberty and inherent value existed before Christianity, and they exist without it, or any religion.
Also, nowhere in any document, especially not the Declaration, which is not a legal document by the way, it's a declaration of revolution, is "created in gods image" mentioned.
God is never mentioned in the Constitution, not once.
And even if god is mentioned in the Declaration, there are thousands and thousands of named gods, prove it means the...
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Unbelievable. Get some objectivity quickly.
Even non-relgious folks can recognize the logical-connection between Christ dying for our sins and coming into our world to 'set the captives free' - and the U.S. system of government.
Recognize. Honestly. Your willful ignorance is dumbfounding.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
wrong. check it out, the idea is considered laughable by non-christians.
funny when the willfully ignorant and misinformed accuse me of such.
Logical? seriously? I have watched countless theists debate, and listened to them speak, and logic is far from their frame of minds.
I wont lump in, I assume most are smarter then this, but I had a Christian tell me incest was ok 2000 years ago because human DNA use to be perfect.
Logical? I think not
chaoszieg 2 years ago
christian god, without overlooking the fact the man who wrote the declaration was not a Christian, and in fact scorned Christianity.
You cannot claim a man who hated Christianity is talking about the Christian god.
Also, if you want to claim life and liberty are Christian principles, you have to get rid of the old testament first, it would beg to differ.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Get some objectivity and stop parroting nonsense. It's hard to believe you even believe what you're parroting here, honestly.
Maybe you're only messing with me. Good one - ha ha.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
get some objectivity, look at the facts, stop believing what you've been spoonfed and learn to think for yourself.
I have said nothing that isn't true, you should try reading your bible sometime and see how opposed to liberty it really is.
Also, as I came to realize recently, Jesus "dying for our sins" is laughable as an idea of anything close to love, or noble. it is a perversion of it if anything
chaoszieg 2 years ago
I really have yet to meet an intelligent Christian though.
Or Maybe I should clarify, I have seen, heard, and met, many intelligent Christians, but as soon as they want to defend their beliefs they start sounding stupider and stupider. They all, like you, ignore the truth, reality, evidence, and even what's in their own bible. When they can't ignore it though, they tend to twist it in strange ways, like slavery in Jesus's day was actually job employment...
chaoszieg 2 years ago
no life exists when god himself personally kills billions and commands the murder of millions of others.
No liberty exists when god commands anyone who doesnt love him be slaughtered or enslaved. That you must spend your life as a serf to him, in worship to him, in service to him.
Liberty is about as far from Christianity as you can get. Unless you're a Christian who doesnt believe in the bible.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
No life exists when God kills billions.. commands murder...
Okay okay I'll get off on this rabbit-trail; let's do a little logic-exercise here ok. God creates life to begin with - which is where it originates. Then you state He's responsible for killing it. Which already makes your premise dubious..
But let's move on here; the consequence for original sin was that people aren't immortal - in other words DIE eventually -- so is God responsible for that death ?
I'll wait for your answer.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Well actually, yes.
It's god's system, he created it and all the rules within it, and he can supposedly see the future so he knows all the consequences of his actions, so it comes down to simply this, if you knew something you were going to do would cause people you love to suffer and die, would you do it? Any moral person would say no, but by your religion god decides to go ahead with it.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Okay so everyone owes his/her existence to God in the first place -- then you state that He's also responsible for the laws people break - causing him/her to die? Is this how you view it to this point?
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Well I dont believe in your god, but let's go under the assumption he exists for the sake of this.
Yes he created people, and he also created the laws people break, he also created lucifer, and satan, if you believe they're two different people, so everything Lucifer has done, and will do, is god's fault.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
You state you don't believe in my God now after you spent a considerable amount of time criticizing Him for murdering and raping and enslaving? Please explain? You're losing credibility quickly here...
Okay but laws exist to protect people - like not driving too fast in a car; they are for protection, and when people break them there are consequences. You understand the logic of having laws and consequences for breaking laws - right?
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
I'm not losing any credibility. I can disbelieve in god, yet still point out what your religion says he commands to do. Or are you saying book critics have no credibility?
you're missing the point. Let's take the tree. Well god created man, he created him to be curious, and he supposedly didnt want him to eat from the tree.
if he didnt want him to eat from the tree, why put it where he could reach it? Why make man curious? Why let the snake in the garden?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Wouldn't you be only concerned with the reality that God doesn't exist in your opinion, thereby making any real world actions He's responsible for a waste of time to criticize - especially the lengths you go to in criticism? Anyway..
Where in the Bible does it say that God 'created man to be curious' ? It only says he commanded man not to eat the fruit. Unless you can show me otherwise?
You're creating stuff now - which is unobjective as I pointed out before.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Belief in Christianity is actively harmful to the world, so it is not a waste of time to point out to people the countless flaws in their fairytale beliefs.
It doesn't need to say god created man curious, does it? God created man, and all matter and energy in the universe by your beliefs, therefore any personality traits of man would only exist because god created them that way. People are curious by nature, that's a fact, if god created us, he instilled in us curiosity
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Exactly, it doesn't state that God created man to be curious - you created that concept. It only states that man had the option to eat the fruit or not, and that there would be consquences for eating it. Anything else is going beyond what the text communicates.
In other words, God isn't responsible for humans breaking laws. Man is responsible for breaking laws, including the original one. But the question is: when the original one brought death - was God involved in the immortality - death?
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Comment removed
chaoszieg 2 years ago
yes, it is going beyond the text, but it is still a logical inference, if god didnt create man to be curious, we would not be curious because god created everything, including the human brain.
Also, yes god is responsible for humans breaking laws and I already explained how.
1. god put the tree where Adam could reach it.
2. he made man curious (even if you dont except that fine.(
3. he created the snake that tempted Eve.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The bible actually communicates that people have a non-corporeal soul, that exercises independent willpower; which is why God didn't just pick the fruit up and shove it down man's throat, but simply warned him about the consequences of eating it - then stepped back and watched. The context is pretty clear in terms of this willpower. Curiousity and temptation weren't excuses for following through. You torture the text and concepts by manufacturing something other than what's obvious in the text.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Okay I hoped we could follow a line-of-logic based on how historic orthodoxy interprets biblical text - because it seemed to be your beef, but now you're objecting to the text on every possible front - so we cannot even go through with the exercise from a Christian-perspective's premise because you're going even beyond that to some wholly new interpretation far-afield from Christian orthodoxy.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
You miss the point entirely again. Let's say for argument god didn't make man curious, he still put put the tree where Adam and Eve could put it, and he still created Lucifer. If he was all powerful and all knowing, he knew before he did any of those things what would happen, so why did he do it, other then to get them to sin? If he didn't want them to eat the fruit, why'd he create that fruit in the first place?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Would we be free if God forces us into situations where we cannot make decisions to harm our bodies or souls? Should God remove every possible danger to us? Is that freedom?
Is it less free, or more free? To me it's less free -- but God's motive is to give us more freedom, the way He did in the beginning. We often get tempted to do bad stuff - sometimes we give in sometimes not but we're free to decide. It was the same in the beginning.
Without freedom love would be rendered meaningless.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
God should not remove "every possible danger" but neither should he create more dangers to us. He also should get rid of Lucifer, that's moral, that's the right thing to do.
If you had children who you loved and cherished and someone came along and began to make them suffer, and was trying to get them to do evil, wouldn't you want to get rid of that person? Wouldn't you want to protect your children? That doesn't limit their freedoms. I'm morally superior to your god, and so are you
chaoszieg 2 years ago
How many dangers should He get rid of? Where do you derive the quantity that's sufficient? How many dangers are good?
There was ONE tree in the garden that was dangerous. EVERY OTHER tree was ok. If you remove the one dangerous one - wouldn't that remove every possible danger? Hm..
Lucifer should go? Why? You get to eternally exist - but you arbitrarily decide Lucifer shouldn't? Interesting.
You still haven't refuted the principle that the freedom to choose danger equals freedom = love.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Why should Lucifer go? are you serious? Lets see, for starters he opposed god and god kills everyone else who does that, so why not Lucifer, and I already explained why or are you this stupid?
If you have kids, and you see a drug dealer trying to get them to do crack are you going to go watch tv, or call the cops?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
But by your logic God is evil - so why would Lucifer opposing God mean he should go? You're so confused on the logic you communicate here - I cannot keep up with it.
But back to the question: you see Lucifer as some danger, but the danger he poses is temptation for humans - who willingly give in to temptation. Plus you're still communicating that God should remove some arbitrary quantity of dangers - but haven't refuted the principle that freedom to avoid danger equals freedom = love.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Well try to keep up here, it's not that hard. Your god is evil, based on what the bible says about him, like the smell of blood and burnt flesh being pleasing to him, but for this argument I'm using your idea that god is good and Lucifer is bad.
It's funny how you expect me to answer all your questions, but can never answer a single one it turn. Very typical of Christians, they can't answer anything, and if they do it's to and buts and if's and maybe's.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Again, there's a difference between dangers that exist, and being pushed into those dangers by a so called "loving god."
Christians who win a football game, or get a promotion, or survive a natural disaster, thank god for it. Well if call is all powerful, and the author of all that exists, then the bad things that happen are as much his fault as the good.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
but sticking on the actual topic, James Madison, a huge player in our constitution was an atheist and never missed a chance to mock Christianity. The writer of the Declaration was a deist who mocked Christianity and hoped it would fade away, which it has begun to
Then of course the signing of a legally binding document stating we were not founded on Christian values and being praised that we were founded on secular and liberal values
all those things are much more concrete then your "evidence"
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The founders designed a respresentative republic - meaning We the People elect our representatives. Picking out some select framers who disagreed with Christianity (up for debate to begin with) is irrelevant when it's the populace where the power is. This freedom comes from Christian doctrine - as I'm explaining to you. Lots of the famous American universities were essentially seminaries to begin with too. The father of American public education, Noah Webster required reading of the bible.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Yes, the founders designed a representative republic, but they are the ones that designed the government, the principles of the country, and the constitution, and they were atheist, deist, agnostics, and Christians.
The creators decided the founding principles, then the people agreed with them. Also, don't forget, America was the first country in the world who's founding states it's power comes from it's people, and not from god.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Also, just because we elect our representatives doesn't mean those representatives will be Christians, and by the Constitution even if they are Christians they aren't allowed to try and make laws or rules based on their religion.
Also it's not up for debate if some of our founders aren't Christians, they said themselves they weren't and openly mocked Christianity.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Hey we're going round and round here on American history - which is interesting. But just want to point out to you that my view, and I'm pretty sure the framers' view - is absolutely not some kind of theocracy where any religion or non-religion or world view is forced or stongly encouraged on anyone.
Even though I'm confident that most of the principles built into the American founding are based on bible principles - I'm not stating one iota that people shouldn't be free to reject religion.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
To me it's the freedom to reject God, religion, secularism, Christianity, atheism or whatever and to freely choose whatever world view you choose, as long as it's respectful to humanity, that is what Christianity preaches and what America is built on.
I really don't think that atheists or secularists being so hostile toward real Christians is merited. I respect you, and I respect everyone regardless of his / her world view - unless he / she is disrespectful to me first.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Actually that's the exact opposite of what Christianity preaches, don't you even know your own bible?
God commands you to kill anyone who isn't a Christian, so unless you're murdering Muslims, Jews, and Atheists, you're not a true Christian.
Jesus says not believing in him is the one unforgivable sin that will cast you to hell. Freedom of religion, and freedom of thought are what Christianity preaches against and seeks to destroy.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
No the Bible does not command Christians to kill non-Christians. You're wrong.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
read Deuteronomy 13:7-12 or Deuteronomy 17:2-5 or Deuteronomy 13:13-19 or Zechariah 13:3 or (2 Chronicles 15:12-13
all endorse or directly command you to kill non-Christians, or you saying there's another way to read, "If your son or brother, or wife or friend entices you to serve other gods do not pity him, nor shield him, nor spare him, but kill him. You shall stone him to death because he sought to lead you astray."
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Atheists are not hostile to Christians, maybe so to the religion, but as all atheists have notice, when it comes to religion no matter how polite you are about it, Christians will always accuse you of being hateful, and hostile.
And on respect, why should faith, the principle of believing in something without evidence or in spite of evidence to the contradiction of, be worthy of respect?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
You know what chaoszieg, I respect you.
I certainly don't accuse you or anyone of being hateful or hostile. And I didn't mean that atheists are necessarily hostile to Christians - I meant more in the context of the debate over American's Christian history or non-Christian history, that even if it's Christian, I don't think atheists or secularists should be hostile toward the real Christian world view.
To me, it preaches the freedom of every world view, as long as they are respectful.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
It souldn't be a debate. I do not deny that most Americans are, and always have been, Christians, nor Christianities influence on the country in the past and present, we simply werent founded on Christian Values however.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
and on the "real christian world view" I wont get to into it, but in Africa I believe it is there's one Christian gathering children and people to join his Christian army and slay non-believers, and there's also a Christian over there working to save those children. When asked if he, or the killer, were the "true Christian" he said he didn't know that the bible justified both their stances, he just thought it was more moral to stop the fighting.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Also, I love the term "interpret text" Please enlightening to how many "interpretations" there are to, "Anyone born outside of Jerusalem may be a slave."
Yes not everything I said is directly in the bible, but it's not "interpretation" it's following the simple line of logic. Such as, if god is all powerful and all knowing, why did he create Lucifer to begin with, and why doesn't he destroy him? The fact he did makes him as guilty as the guy building the suicide bombs
chaoszieg 2 years ago
things I say that are in the bible are not interpretations of the bible, it's what it actually says, or are you denying that the bible says god likes the smell of blood and burnt flesh? Or that it doesn't say god commands the slaughter of all non-believers? Or that it endorses slavery, genocide, and infanticide?
these are not misinterpretations, it's what the bible actually says, try reading the bible sometime, it is one of the most immoral doctrines ever written.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The slavery, genocide, infanticide stuff is quickly vaporized when people examine the text in its context. It's why you throw it all against the wall at one time - because every misconception would be refuted if you investigate each one, one at a time.
It's always the same thing - every slander of the text is thrown into one big pot without specific references to the text and its context. I suppose you believe one of them might stick, or people won't bother going through the whole litany.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
lol sure it is. I simply love it when religious people try to justify. I don't need to throw it all at once, I'll be perfectly happy to take it one at a time.
Telling you whats in your book isn't slander by the way.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
here's a couple
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16
chaoszieg 2 years ago
The nations ancient Israel interacted w/ - openly practiced and spread the practices of sacrificing their own children to demons, eating human-flesh in the process, and carried sexually-transmitted plagues possibly from sex w/ corpses. God judges nations for good reason - so destructive practices like this don't spread to the world.
Nazi Germany was judged harshly and shown no mercy by nations who went to war with its populace. It would be almost non-existent if not for reconstruction help.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Also, you ask me what basis I have for dictating right and wrong, so let me as you, what basis do you have?
It's not the bible, and how do I know this? Well for starters I don't believe you would start raping and murdering and torturing people tomorrow if you stopped believing in the bible, but more importantly, you would not agree with anything in the bible if it was your basis. You would be doing and not doing things because it said so, not because you feel they're wrong
chaoszieg 2 years ago
but the falsehood of Christianity is irrelevant to whether or not we were found off Christian values. Life and liberty are secular values, they are not Christian values, nor are the exclusive to one group, many groups share these principles.
You have to be able to point to actually evidence we were founded on Christian principles, not, "I'm a Christian and these are my principles so we were founded on Christian values."
chaoszieg 2 years ago
I pointed to tons of clear evidence of America being built on Christianity. Go back and read it.
Really it's not even a question to honest people.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
No, it's not even a question to honest people, they know you're wrong.
You pointed to no evidence, aside from mentions of god, but as I said, god does not mean the Christian god, and you are also making assumptions.
When the founders themselves say directly "America was in no way founded on Christian principles" and that America was founded on liberal and secular values, to claim the opposite makes you look like a fool.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Noah Webster. Noah Webster. Noah Webster. Opening prayer of the First Continental Congress. Opening prayer of the First Continental Congress. Classic American literature. Classic American literature. To name a few of the examples that make it obvious.
Yes I did pont to evidence - but you're NOT reading the evidence I pointed to - are you?
The Tripoli treaty was involving a mostly Muslim region - and America was seeking their HELP -- is this correct? Or am I thinking of something else?
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
those aren't evidence. You say I shouldn't make assumptions following the logic of biblical claims, then make assumptions based on less then that.
For the first opening prayer you have to look at the reason for it, and it was objected to by members of congress. It was a political move, not a sign of our founding.
You evidence is open to your interpretation doesnt make it correct
A treaty by American law is considered legally binding and enforceable, unlike a dictionary or american literature
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Yes they are examples of evidence.
You cannot just ignore clear examples of historic American giants like Noah Webster, the First Continental Congress of the original 13 colonies and WHO they PRAYED to / what they prayed, classic American literature, the Great Awakenings and their influence, etc -- and illogically claim it's not American history.
You cannot just cherry pick your evidence and ignore what contradicts your premise.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
Sorry, Cherry picking is what you do.
I just read Noah Webster's entire history, and he wrote the first dictionary, that was the sum of his achievements. he was not a founding father, he wasn't a politician, he has nothing to do with anything relevant.
Again, many of the members of the congress objected to there being any prayer. Not all of them prayed. Look at the context.
American literature is not proof of anything the founders intended or thought.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Noah Webster wasn't a politician? Wrong - he served in the Connecticut House of Representatives, so your information about him is completely incorrect. Furthermore he wrote textbooks, political essays for the Federalist party, founded New York's first daily newspaper, etc.. I could go on about his influence. You're clearly ignorant about real American history.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
It has been specifically stated by our founding father that not only were we not founded on Christian values, but that we were founded on liberal and secular values.
Also most of our founding father openly criticized Christianity.
Thomas Jefferson who wrote the Deceleration of independence said Christianity was a threat to peace and liberty and deserved to be ridiculed, so if he mentions a creator, it's not likely he meant a christian one.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
I'm not creating anything, I'm stating either things in the bible, or things that logically go along with Christian beliefs in him.
But answer my previous question, I'd like to know how big of a waste of my time it's going to be to talk to you. You'd be surprised by the number of Christians that answer those questions wrong.
chaoszieg 2 years ago
there's a difference between making laws to protect people, and having consequences for those laws, and trying to make people break them and then punishing them for it. that's actually illegal and it's called entrapment.
We can take abortion as well. God knows if this person gets pregnant, they will have an abortion, so why doesnt he stop them from getting pregnant?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
if god didnt create the tree, or satan, then no laws would be broken.
Lucifer only exist because god created him, and god knew if he created him he would bring suffering, and tempt people to sin, but god made him anyway, therefore all those that Lucifer tempts, or tricks, it's god's fault for creating Lucifer and for not getting rid of him
chaoszieg 2 years ago
your god needs to be held accountable for his actions just like everyone else is. His actions alone created original sin, as well as most sins committed today, and all suffering that happens is his responsibility.
If I create a bomb and it kills someone, it's my fault they died, and I have to take responsibility, why doesnt your god?
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Hm, if you start with the premise that God created everything - then what basis do you have for dictating what is right and wrong?
desertTRUTH 2 years ago
thats besides the point of my initial statement though. people die eventually, that's fine, dont have to blame god for it, but if he ends a life by say, drowning a person because they don't love him, or telling you to kill your neighbor because he doesnt fear god in the same way as you, yes, you can blame god for that certainly.
It's always amazing to me that people thank god for everything good but never blame him for the bad when he's responsible for everything
chaoszieg 2 years ago
Stay with me here - let's not jump ahead of ourselves; I'm trying to fully comprehend your view here in a coherent, logic picture. Then we'll move on.
desertTRUTH 2 years ago