Universal Health Care Democratic Debate 01-21-08

[Dendiol]

America needs universal healthcare. Wake up and realise that the NHS is, although not perfect, a much fairer and better system.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol more like universal slavery and monopoly.

[Dendiol]

@dab0331 Try again. Your anti-NHS argument is a load of shit.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol lol.... maybe u should look at history. the soviet union is a perfect example of what happens when u hand over the economy to the state.

and u guys always point to europe and their systems when u forget that all their wealth is false credit created through a printing press and a central bank. The EU's broke like the US. why do u think there's riots in ireland, portugal, spain, greece, etc.?

socialized medicine only centralizes & helps corporatism. it doesn't destroy it.

[Dendiol]

@dab0331 I appreciate that in America some of your government run hospitals may be of a poor standard but this is not the case in the UK. Our system is not perfect, granted, but I am proud to live in a country where people do not die because they cannot afford basic care. Americans often state that they live in the 'land of the free'. Land of the 'held hostage by medical corporations' sound more realistic. You need to get over your irrational fear of anything that appears vaguely 'socialist.

[mrsthursday]

@Dendiol that's so true but enough of the electorate can't see the wood for the trees- meaning they listening to a lot of gossipy propaganda from the right-winger and don't seem to be able to work out exactly why the politicians are against a proposal that would benefit the poorest in their society - it's the corporate payouts that the pols receive that buy their votes. Americans like to comment on corruption in other countries but most are unable to see it right under their noses.

[Dendiol]

@mrsthursday Very well said.

[aaasssfffdddiii]

@Dendiol The UK Health Care System is in crumbles. 60% of UK doctors say that people suffer long waiting times for Diagnostic tests. Cancer survival rates are far higher in America than they are in the UK. For example, American men have a 66.3% survival rate for all cancers. In England, the number is 44.8%. A stark difference...

Single Payer Health Care Systems are like the old Soviet... everything is free, but there are chronic shortages, outdated technology, and long waiting times...

[Dendiol]

@aaasssfffdddiii I disagree. Come back with up to date statistics and try again.

[aaasssfffdddiii]

@Dendiol Those statistics are all the most recent ones. The 60% of Doctors saying that people suffer from long waits from Diagnostic tests was from the Commonwealth Fund in 2007. The other statistic about cancer survival is from Lancet Oncology in 2007.

[Dendiol]

@aaasssfffdddiii It is not in "crumbles", and although not perfect, the NHS is vastly superior to your unethical healthcare system. Americans boast about living in the 'land of the free'. Land of the 'held hostage by medical corporations' sound more realistic.

[aaasssfffdddiii]

@Dendiol Well, it may seem "immoral" to you. But, I would rather live in an immoral system with up to date technology and quick access to top notch cancer care than a "moral system" with waiting times and out of date technology. I think it is immoral to have only 44.8% of men survive cancer... (when it is much higher in a country that does medicine very differently, even if you think it is immoral)

[Dendiol]

@aaasssfffdddiii Search for 'NHS better than American healthcare' in the Telegraph (a right-wing newspaper) and tell me the NHS is in "crumbles".

I am proud to live in a country where people can access healthcare regardless of their ability to pay. America needs to lose it's fear of anything vaguely 'socialist' as it is far from perfect across many areas.

[aaasssfffdddiii]

@Dendiol Um, I'm sure the NHS is popular in the UK, because most in the UK don't know that America actually has it better. Most probably assume that it is the best they can get.

In America, you won't find conservatives criticizing social security and medicaree very often because they are popular, even though they are in crumbles financiallly...

[Dendiol]

Americans have to decide for themselves what healthcare system they want - it is impertinant of me to lecture you on what is 'right'. However, from my experience as a British citizen, our system saves lives and makes the UK healthier than other countries.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol socialized medicine helps the top medical companies destroy their competition and creates a monopoly over it.

[mrsthursday]

@dab0331

Okay, you made a statement that really doesn't make any sense- what exactly do you mean by Socialized Medicine?

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday here's another definition...

socialism (n.) - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.



[dab0331]

@Dendiol if u think universal healthcare is a good idea i suggest u go visit a VA hospital and see how they treat our veterans.

i went to one when i got back from afghanistan and it's a fucking joke.

[Dendiol]

@dab0331 The fact of the matter is, our entire economy is not centralised as was the USSR, so your argument about the Soviet Union doesn't count. The UK is in debt but out government's deficit reduction package is cutting public expenditure - the NHS is safeguarded however, because our government place people's lives first. Americans still fail to grasp that the medical companies only aim is to make profit and not to provide accessible medical care for all.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol yes it's not completely taken over like the USSR. thank god. but democrats are trying ot push it that way.

medicare and SS alone take up almost half our GDP. it's unsustainable.

"Americans still fail to grasp that the medical companies only aim is to make profit and not to provide accessible medical care for all."

and centralizing the medical sector of hte economy's gonna solve that?? i think not. it only leads to higher prices and lower quality care and leads to bad decisions.

[mrsthursday]

@dab0331 Instead of quoting Glenn Beck et al why not tell us what your understanding is of the public healthcare proposals- 'cos your "facts" make NO sense and it's obvious you are either confused or purposely misrepresenting the facts and why would you do that? It's time to spill the beans dab and just say what we suspect that you just hate the idea of one penny of "your money" going anywhere but to pay off your credit card & yet still expect your trash to be picked up and cops on call.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday i dont watch glenn beck. LOL

how about u check out what milton friedman had to say.

really it's not so hard to understand.

you want universal healthcare becuz u dont trust corporations and want to stick it to them. so u think politicians are the solution. well u're sadly mistaken becuz the corporations who give them their advice are a lot smarter then them.

when u have a "planed economy" the only ones who benefit are the planners.

[mrsthursday]

@dab0331 Instead of telling me what u think I mean- why not just tell us what u mean cos so far you're just quoting a disproved theorist or quoting Glenn Beck et al whether you know it or not it. Every business I've ever worked in or owned had to be planned down to the smallest point, banks like that, business plans are really important. Go run a small business and then your comments may carry some weight.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday disproved?? Everything free market economist have predicted has come true. the housing bubble, the college bubble, the medicare bubble, etc. do u even know how money works??

i bet u still think it's backed by gold don't u and that the federal reserve is a branch of the federal governent. LOL

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday "Every business I've ever worked in or owned had to be planned down to the smallest point."

yeah but if that business' income is subsidized by the federal government then they have no incentive to be economic becuz they know they'll get bailed out.

when u don't have corporate welfare (which is what medicare is) then the companies have to compete for your dollar and offer affordable prices & run an efficient system, instead of a top-heavy beauracracy.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday here's an example... of what companies do when their shit is subsidized by the government.

when halliburton's trucks would break down or run out of gas during the beginning of the iraq war they would simply set them on fire & come up with a convenient excuse becuz they knew they would get new trucks from the government.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday also halliburton would charge the government $100 for every bag of clothes they washed in iraq.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday here's a little interesting video of the unintended consequences of corporate welfare u wanna support.

watch?v=chXjCtkymRQ

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday " Go run a small business and then your comments may carry some weight. "

that's irrelevant.

are u gonna tell me that u only want a doctor to treat u for cancer only if he himself has had cancer?

[mrsthursday]

@dab0331

You're just throwing anything in the mix and making a hell of a mess. Stick to the main point and you'll come across clearly. You see no reason why people who need medical care and can't afford the premiums should get treatment on par with those that can afford the premiums. The UK where I was born & Canada where I've lived have medical coverage for all but their systems are completely different. See my point yet? The US system would be unique to them.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday the main point dufus is that universal healthcare is CORPORATE WELFARE!!

which is not just immoral it is unsustainable. the only reason theyre able to even remotely continue it is becuz of central banking which merely prints out money out of thin air. in other words: easy credit

but it puts the country as a whole into massive debt. the EU and the US is now reaping the fruits of it. that's why theres riots in ireland, greece, portugal, spain, etc

& why the debt ceiling is an issue

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday my personal finances & ability to buy my own personal insurance would be pretty good if a borrowed a million dollars every month but someday the bills will be come to.

THAT is the point.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday the fact of the matter is that all the economy's problems are created from government interference in the market.

[dab0331]

@mrsthursday here's a little bit of economic philosophy for u.

watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

[dab0331]

@Dendiol take the housing market for example. when the gvnt got involved the housing companies overproduced and made too many houses and the artificial bubble popped which was created by the easy credit mandated by the gvnt created the problem.

now they're trying to prop up house prices artificially which doesn't do any good. u gotta let housing prices fall to a realistic level.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol another example is college. there is no reason college should cost as much as a house. nowt he average tuition is above $100,000-$200,000.

that's fucking insane and doesn't include texbooks.

all becuz of the easy student loans created by the government which as was forseen by any free-market economist would only lead to the colleges proping up prices & lowering quality of schooling to continue to get a fat gvnt check.

[Dendiol]

@dab0331 Coming from the UK, I disagree with you but I fully respect your opinion. Thank you for taking the time to debate this issue, you're one of the few on Youtube who replies intelligently.

[dab0331]

@Dendiol in a free market prices naturally start off high but lower overtime becuz companies must compete over eachother for your $.

take DVD's for example. no one wanted a DVD back then becuz it was unaffordable but overtime prices lowered.

if u spent half the time promoting private charities as u do promoting socialized medicine you'd do twice as much good.

[Dendiol]

@dab0331 I just don't personally agree that a basic human right such as accessible free healthcare should be marketised. However, I respect your opinion and thanks for taking the time to debate this issue with me. You're one of the few Youtubers who reply intelligently to comments.

[lovecraftis]

The USA's health care system is a joke. Third World nations have better health care. The question everyone asks is how to pay for it? Cut military spending, do away with the tax breaks for the rich and stop giving HMOs free reign. Regulate the health care industry now. These bastards owe the US people a lot of $ due to their shady pratices.

[MaHaRushie]

wow 2 years later all 3 of these people have turned into jokes.

[patitofeo76]

Eventually Obama had to include Hillary's mandate on his plan, other than that he really delivered what he promised. I checked different debates on healthcare and there was nothing ever said about the public option, so the guy pretty much delivered what he wanted, with one element from Hillary's plan.

[gofindyourownawesome]

Hillary was definitely stronger and better on health care than Obama ever was.

[lilchico4wg]

0:41

"...and thankfully, HIV aids has become a chronic disease..."

What?

Maybe she mispoke, but politicians are usually careful with words...hmmmm

1:28 "if we don't have every body in the system..."

We live in a system. Good or bad......welcome to the machine!

[yamachicken]

the three stooges right there

[mcjolley09]

What are we gonna do about that? Maybe we can sit here and complain some more........

[mcjolley09]

No matter what happens, you will all deal with it either way. It is what it is....we don't all get what we want....but sitting here complaining about it will do nothing. Your opinion means nothing if it is only to prove how right you are and how wrong the other is. We have the rich, the middle class and the lower income. Some here are so worried about whats gonna happen with the middle class but truth be told...the way things are going...it will soon be an upper and lower class nation anyways.

[fedtheend]

according to iron mountain the whole purpose of universal healthcare is to get the foot in the door of the mark of the beast system, specifically the world identification card.

[reggaecracker]

fix economy and this wouldn't be an issue.

[guppyworld540]

LOL all of the EU nations have universal healthcare, Russia, Mexico, and Australia even Canada, so why cant the "most powerful country in the world" provide it?

[reggaecracker]

then why do so many come to U.S. for healthcare who need it ,from those countries?

[YJPY]

they don't, they come here for medical school cause education is better here, many Americans go to Canada for healthcare

[treid100182]

We spend 2.1 trillion on healthcare, right now. If we dont fix the system, we will be spending, according to projection, 3.9 trillion by 2015, if we remain with the status quo. We can have a Universal system by filling a gap of roughly $58 billion annually added on to the 2.1 trillion. It does cost more, but not as much if this continues. It makes sense in the long run, especially for a country that is economically falling apart.

[reggaecracker]

so fix the economy. not change a industry for the worst... all the countries who have this system are warning the U.S. not to hange it, just look closer how it operates.

any time the government gets involved, it falls apart.

nice stimulus that did nothing. pay attention.

[FantaC17]

Universal healthcare guarantees that all people in the so called greatest country on earth will have their health taken care of. The system will work if people allow it to. Unfortunately however, the world as well as the country is full of selfish people. Those against universal healthcare are selfish and inhumane. Two principles that America supposeldy doesnt stand for. Its sad. Those against universal care in the US are inhumane, selfish, and anti-American

[Undermostnewjoe]

i have to disagree

Its like the people on Welfare

i understand pple needing money for there medical problems

but the governmet isn't supposed to be Mommy and daddy

they are here to protect us, not give us money if we dont want to work.

and Universal health care is somthing to consider but i dont see y those who actually PAY to get seen have to w8 for 5-6 hours when they are having a heart attack or some shit plus it doesn't seem rite to FORCE doctors to work for peanuts

[YJPY]

u are an uneducated hick, ppl on welfare usually work hard, they just never had the opportunity to go to school because their parents didn't have enough money. Do you think the people who work for only slightly better than minimum wage working at construction sites or even on your roof don't work hard? They do. Just because people don't have enough money to pay for healthcare does not mean they are "too lazy to work."

[geezmann3]

totally right

[geezmann3]

peanuts? lol again in what you stated you can see the selfishness fanta was talking about earlier. No one should be denied the right to being healthy

[mrsthursday]

US= the ONLY industrial nation that doesn't have universal medical care.

France shouldn't have a better system than the us that's just not right. Most bankruptcies are brought on by medical expenses. That's barbaric.

[guppyworld540]

Even Mexico has universal health care system. Thats pathetic

[reggaecracker]

then why do so many mexicans come here for healthcare and living if its so great there?

[guppyworld540]

the jobs well that was before the recession

[reggaecracker]

but the stimulus was gonna fix that? obama and staff said it would, we had to pass it? sooo whats the deal with that?

[geezmann3]

your name sais it all reggae crackerr

[lkcaudill]

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." (Anatole France 1894)

I believe it is a noble idea.

[OCdodgerfan88]

Universal healthcare is far too pricy

[devewrter27]

For all of those willing to see the truth. There will be nothing more than a giant FRAUD of a man.

[devewrter27]

Obama was the perfect trojan horse.

[Undermostnewjoe]

now that is somthing to say lol to

[blackie1233]

Anybody who lies to bend the truth about universal health plan needs to go to jail. We are the only developed country that have a profit based health plan. We as ordinary citizen needs to push our elected official to pass this bill.... go universal health plan

[Undermostnewjoe]

the country is already trillions in debt

and someone i know who is in to politics told me his universal health plan would cost either 1.3 billion dollars a year

or 1.3 trillion dollars a year

that means we have 2 options

Increase taxes to an extreme level or

put our hand out to other countries expecting them to give us money

and both sound like shit

[mrsthursday]

Dr. John Abramson MD

Harvard Medical School

Primary Healthcare, formerly- family practice in Appalachia and Mass. for 20 years .

To insure all Americans would cost about two hundred billion dollars, and were wasting six hundred and fifty billion on health care thats unnecessary or harmful.

from his website.

[mrsthursday]

@blackie1233 Holy h*ll and I thought I was enthusiastic about getting Uni. healthcare!

[univibe23]

Hey America! Guess what? (12 yrs ago)We here in the suprisingly progressive State of TN started Our own version of health care for everyone called TNCARE. What a disaster!!! It almost bankrupted the State until a Very bright Democrat GOV. Killed it. Look into it if you really want to know how bad this is going to be expanded to the national level.

[34171]

Get ready America Obama will end up taxing middle class and working class on their health care so we can give free health care to non citizens. You can count on this!

[TheMan6376]

The only Universal health care system we should use should be one to help anyone only in the event of an emergency or life threatening disease. You should not be allowed to use the peoples' money to go get medication because they have a cold, or they have a sore throat. It should only be available if your life is in danger if it allows people to go whenever they want then the system will get swamped we already have too few doctors in this countries.

[sophisticatedname]

We cant use people's money for cough's or cold's or sore throat's?

Are you serious? Why not? Think about others man. Stop being so fricken seflish.

You will never know until you become poor and need help like most Americans.

[TheMan6376]

Because it is not that bad if you have a sore throat or a minor fever it is called walk it off. Also is it worth $ trillions just so that way 15% of Americans won't have to deal with a cough, or a sore throat.

Also the rich who are being taxed are the reason this country doesn't collapse. If Obama taxes the rich much more they will have half of their money taken away. Those rich that are being taxed are the people who run businesses, the people who invest in the stock market, the doctors.

[mrsthursday]

yep 5% of american use up 50% of healthcare dollars. That ain't fair.

[eloiganzales]

hilary cliton makes no sense! universal healthcare is a horrible isea! but sadly, obama is offering this system. google obama-care

[3denn]

why dont just said totally free medical?

[BulletsandBibles]

So if you work for a company who offers healthcare, you want qualify for the universal hc. Your company will have to pay more for the private plan, thus you will pay more for your company HC. Coupled with the fact your federal income tax will rise to help pay for a benifit you can't recieve. Brilliant Plan. Just come out and say it, this is for lower income minorities, and another way to fuck the middle class.

[gex581990]

America the land of the (un/mis)informed public. where ignorance crawls so much the rich get richer the poor get poorer and health care is not health care at all, a health business that looks at humans lives as a bad investment approve and disapproves lives for more money in their pocket. while most of the world has universal health care actually using taxes for the right reasons making medicine ( no matter the subscription or amount) and surgeries either free or cheap......see something wrong?

[gex581990]

also to add to that whenever universal health care is brought up the US government tries to pawn it off as an act of socialism and communism. anyone remember that record of Ronald Regan's?

[vaiserious]

14 million undertakers = flush... nice idea.

[DustinThePooper]

14 million jobs in the health insurance industry + Universal health care = *Flush!*

[DOliver6]

Hillary Clinton's Plan: In essence, taxes will be increased. As with anything, hardworking tax payers will have to pay for those who cannot afford health care. This is nothing new for Americans.

Barack Obama's Plan: He claims that his plan will make health care affordable for all, but why does he plan to create subsidizes (money you may or may not have to pay back to the government)?

[DOliver6]

Who would not want health care coverage? CLINTON for PRESIDENT!!!!

[Gaus212]

Mrs. Clinton will eventually prescribe (mandate)assisted suicide...

Because I don't see any other way for her forced health plane to work...

Do you?

[fireskin12]

that makes no sense.

[smithsc07]

lol.. read up you'll understand.. i think theres a link right off google.

[Gaus212]

You can not mandate any thing on privately run companies they will simply close their doors and take their knowledge to another country "no law against that!"

She is in a Wal-Mart state of mind I soled to Wal-mart I had some of their top people in my office but I don't deal with them because every body likes to compete but to loose money guaranteed c'mon

Same goes for the health industry Obama plan woreked

[Gaus212]

"Jewish lighting" is not a racial slur it is New Yorker for burning your own property because rent control is mandated and is reflective of 1940s economy and property taxes are currant so that's when the lighting hits the building & Mrs. Clinton's plan is of the same school of thought, what they going to do mandate assisted suicide next ... at least Mr. Obama plan woreked in his state ... we do live in a free country...

[AnyThingButWindows]

Those of us who do not want healthcare, will not take it. End of story.

[jwmcdanielfarm]

Obama says he will not mandate everyone to purchase insurance. However he is going to make the costs reasonable enough that everyone will be able to purchase it. How is he going to do that? Is he going to make doctors, hospitals, pharmacutical companies cut their prices?

[jwmcdanielfarm]

Hillary says health care tax credits means that tax paying Americans pay for the individuals that do not have insurance. Will this additional tax come in the form of a tax hike or will funds be pulled from some other program? It will have to come from somewhere.

[fireskin12]

Tax credits are the proverbial golden egg when it comes to saving money on your tax return. Unlike tax deductions, tax credits are subtracted from the final amount of tax you owe. If you qualify for a tax credit of $1,000 and owe $7,000 in taxes, you pay $6,000.

[fireskin12]

So you are incorrect. What she's proposing is for people of low income. Their insurance premiums will be subtracted from their taxes in the form of Credits, dollar for dollar, not just a deduction. I believe. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[jwmcdanielfarm]

I don't disagree with you at all. Maybe I asked the question the wrong way. In your example of -$1k+$7k=$6k, The over all tax received by the US Gov is still $1k short. That $1k will have to be made up somewhere else. Just because this particular individual is not being made to pay it doesn't mean that it won't be paid. It will be picked up by someone or somewhere else.

[fireskin12]

I don't follow you. The tax received is 1k less, why does it have to be made up? It just won't be in the next budget. Maybe you should direct the question to someone who is more familiar with the plan. If you are wondering about people that are at an extreme poverty level, they will still be able to use Medicare / Medicaid, and i assume they will even relax the requirements for those as well.