Agreed, Religion is selfish and that's because it is man-made. Religion is made to make us feel good or like we are part of the in crowd and we are going to get this great reward when we die.
Religion is in direct contrast to a naturalistic view of the world where we see ourselves much more realistically. We are just animals that are part of nature. There is nothing amazingly special about us other than our ability to communicate and use our brains to make life better.
@snarky77005 Also there is something that has always bothered me about Christianity. If Jesus is so important and he is the only way to get to heaven then what happened to all the people born before Jesus's time? Why did God wait more than 100,000 years after man evolved into existence to for Jesus to appear? And what happened to all of the people that had never heard of Christianity after Jesus appeared on earth? And I can Jesus forgive me for stepping on your toe?
This is a really excellent point, one that I'd not expressly thought about... Were I at all supernaturally inclined (even to the point of hypothesizing :)) I'd have to agree.
But heres another thing I dont understand when people say: Humans are ultimately insignificant in the universe...well under whose accord? By space? Well if theres a blue dot on a massive wall its still a blue dot, the small size of the dot doesnt mean its not there, and who says it more or less important than the wall itself? Its just smaller, Earth is just smaller than the rest of the universe. If the rest of the universe beside the our solar system didnt exist, would humans say insignificant?
@GermanConquistador08 - Basically the idea is that nothing we humans do actually matters, except to ourselves and the people around us. Q said it best at the end of this clip: /watch?v=s1tppL_uMaU
This is very different from religious ideas of Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, etc. where, for example, God, the creator of EVERYTHING, gives a shit about ME, wow!
@Venaloid "except to ourselves and the people around us" -Well, to be honest, who else is there? At the moment, there isnt anyone else. Its not like Star Trek where theres confirmed life on other planets, we cant even compare ourselves to other lifeforms. And if that is the case than who or what else is God going to concentrate on? "they are special." - Well, historically speaking they ARE very special cases in human history. Regardless its not individual is what I'm saying.
@GermanConquistador08 "if theres a blue dot on a massive wall its still a blue dot, the small size of the dot doesnt mean its not there, and who says it more or less important than the wall itself?"
There are something like a million billion billion such dots in the observable universe. There are about 10 millions species apart from humans on the Earth. More than 99.9% of all species that have existed on Earth since the life began are now extinct. Still feel important?
That arguement is dead in the water with a single look at the platform for Christianity, Judaism. Judaism is almost completely community-based, hell the entire ideal of the Israelites is the keeping of a communial identity, and thats seen in the entire history of the jewish people. You might argue thats cultural and not religious, but from what part of their culture do they get it from? Theres little that can be classifed as Jewish art or literature, other than the Torah.
@GermanConquistador08 - But part of their history is the idea that God (a religious figure by the way, so we ARE talking about a religion) saved them and specifically chose them: they are God's people: they are special.
@Venaloid Although you might look at this evolutionarily: A species rarely cares about anything but its own survival. If other species were intelligent enough I'd dare say THEY would consider themselves the most important. Just a thought there, but its probably just logically based, the question of "What else is there more important than humans afterall?" The planet maybe? But then why is the planet important? We live on it.
@GermanConquistador08 - Exactly my point: IF a religion was made up by people, then it makes sense that part of that religion would be that people are important. You don't ever (I believe) get a religion in which people aren't made to feel powerful or important at some level. Which, like I said, seems to suggest to me that religions are make-believe.
@Venaloid "people aren't made to feel powerful or important at some level" - Well, in comparison to what again? Humans are the center of a deities attention, but that would make completely sense. I'd be more inclined to not believe a religion if they DIDNT make humans important simple because its very unlikely that a deity would create a species like humans and just ignore them forever or make them less important kind of like many pagan religions. That doesnt make any sense.
@GermanConquistador08 - Well as opposed to, for example, Quantum Wolf pooped out the universe and then left (essentially Deism with a few embellishments to make it a specific religion, as opposed to just "deism").
Most religious people think their beliefs accurately model reality. But why do most or all of these "true" models of reality put us at the center?
@Venaloid "Wolf pooped out the universe and then left (essentially Deism with a few embellishments to make it a specific religion" -..what are you talking about? "But why do most or all of these "true" models of reality put us at the center?" - Well, technically they put deities at the cener and humans often in the manner of the child, the servent, the followers but within their own realm. Humans are the center of the deities attention because theres really nothing else to pay attention to.
They often say xtianity is different b/c it's the only religion where god reaches out to man instead of man toward god. However, it seems god is the selfish one here b/c he created humanity knowing that *most* humans would suffer eternally (according to the large xtianity group I used to associate with) so that he may be glorified. Of course that is according to my limited human perspective. ;)
" find a religion that had nothing to do with humans at all"
That makes no sense.
The definition of religion is a systemized belief (by humans) in and worship of (by humans) a supernatural controlling power. Religion is our belief and worship activities. How can you divorce that from humanity? It wouldn't be religion then.
@BattleshipTx - Well obviously we humans would have to be the ones practicing this hypothetical religion, otherwise it wouldn't exist (for all we knew, anyway). My idea isn't that we'd have nothing to do with religion at all. I'm wondering why all the teachings of all religions seem to revolve around us or implicate us in some way. Why do we never see a religion that teaches about some alien race whose actions don't affect us in any way (or something like that)?
@Venaloid - Also, if you continue reading, you'll find that I went on to say, "our only connection to it [this hypothetical religion] is the fact that we know about it, but otherwise, we don't matter." The idea being that you never see a religion in which humans aren't involved or aren't "special" in some way.
"My idea isn't that we'd have nothing to do with religion at all"
Probably shouldn't have said: "I would be genuinely interested to find a religion that had nothing to do with humans at all" then. But okay, you mean:
"Why do we never see a religion...alien race whose actions don't affect us in any way"
Probably because their actions don't affect us in any way? We might have some mild curiosity about aliens that don't affect us, but wouldn't be likely to make a systemized belief system for it.
What about a religion more concerned with consciousness and sentience than the physical shell encapsulating/hosting it? I know it would involve us, but it'd be less concerned with the fact that one mind identified itself as "human" or if the mind was based in a less, squishy, system.
That's an interesting point. I concur. I think most religions (minus Satanism & the like) are selfish, but sometimes TRY to be unselfish. In the case of Xianity, it's all about avoiding infinite punishment & attaining infinite reward (which is arguably selfish), but the Christian does, to some degree try to follow ONE of Jesus' examples by the whole "sacrificing", tithing thing. Sometimes it may be altruistic; other times it would appear to be self-serving altruism. Just my 2 cents.
Never thought of it that way before, good insight.
fighterace2688 2 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
well that religion is the pastafarians
n2488 1 month ago
Agreed, Religion is selfish and that's because it is man-made. Religion is made to make us feel good or like we are part of the in crowd and we are going to get this great reward when we die.
Religion is in direct contrast to a naturalistic view of the world where we see ourselves much more realistically. We are just animals that are part of nature. There is nothing amazingly special about us other than our ability to communicate and use our brains to make life better.
snarky77005 2 months ago
@snarky77005 Also there is something that has always bothered me about Christianity. If Jesus is so important and he is the only way to get to heaven then what happened to all the people born before Jesus's time? Why did God wait more than 100,000 years after man evolved into existence to for Jesus to appear? And what happened to all of the people that had never heard of Christianity after Jesus appeared on earth? And I can Jesus forgive me for stepping on your toe?
snarky77005 2 months ago
@snarky77005 The whole thing just makes no sense whatsoever.
snarky77005 2 months ago
Good vid. Lots of good Ernest Becker on this. Eastern religions, Buddhists commonly focus on Nature and on our part in that.
Professoranton 2 months ago
This is a really excellent point, one that I'd not expressly thought about... Were I at all supernaturally inclined (even to the point of hypothesizing :)) I'd have to agree.
allidock11 2 months ago
Religions are also about understanding, this probably why all the gods (that I'm aware of) are antropomorphized.
d007ization 2 months ago
You're still talking and there's science to do:-)
Ra the Egyptian sun God? I think he was represented in human form though.
jthommusic 2 months ago
But heres another thing I dont understand when people say: Humans are ultimately insignificant in the universe...well under whose accord? By space? Well if theres a blue dot on a massive wall its still a blue dot, the small size of the dot doesnt mean its not there, and who says it more or less important than the wall itself? Its just smaller, Earth is just smaller than the rest of the universe. If the rest of the universe beside the our solar system didnt exist, would humans say insignificant?
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
@GermanConquistador08 - Basically the idea is that nothing we humans do actually matters, except to ourselves and the people around us. Q said it best at the end of this clip: /watch?v=s1tppL_uMaU
This is very different from religious ideas of Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, etc. where, for example, God, the creator of EVERYTHING, gives a shit about ME, wow!
Venaloid 2 months ago 2
@Venaloid "except to ourselves and the people around us" -Well, to be honest, who else is there? At the moment, there isnt anyone else. Its not like Star Trek where theres confirmed life on other planets, we cant even compare ourselves to other lifeforms. And if that is the case than who or what else is God going to concentrate on? "they are special." - Well, historically speaking they ARE very special cases in human history. Regardless its not individual is what I'm saying.
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GermanConquistador08 "if theres a blue dot on a massive wall its still a blue dot, the small size of the dot doesnt mean its not there, and who says it more or less important than the wall itself?"
There are something like a million billion billion such dots in the observable universe. There are about 10 millions species apart from humans on the Earth. More than 99.9% of all species that have existed on Earth since the life began are now extinct. Still feel important?
guitarpedant 2 months ago
That arguement is dead in the water with a single look at the platform for Christianity, Judaism. Judaism is almost completely community-based, hell the entire ideal of the Israelites is the keeping of a communial identity, and thats seen in the entire history of the jewish people. You might argue thats cultural and not religious, but from what part of their culture do they get it from? Theres little that can be classifed as Jewish art or literature, other than the Torah.
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
@GermanConquistador08 - But part of their history is the idea that God (a religious figure by the way, so we ARE talking about a religion) saved them and specifically chose them: they are God's people: they are special.
Venaloid 2 months ago
@Venaloid Although you might look at this evolutionarily: A species rarely cares about anything but its own survival. If other species were intelligent enough I'd dare say THEY would consider themselves the most important. Just a thought there, but its probably just logically based, the question of "What else is there more important than humans afterall?" The planet maybe? But then why is the planet important? We live on it.
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
@GermanConquistador08 - Exactly my point: IF a religion was made up by people, then it makes sense that part of that religion would be that people are important. You don't ever (I believe) get a religion in which people aren't made to feel powerful or important at some level. Which, like I said, seems to suggest to me that religions are make-believe.
Venaloid 2 months ago
@Venaloid "people aren't made to feel powerful or important at some level" - Well, in comparison to what again? Humans are the center of a deities attention, but that would make completely sense. I'd be more inclined to not believe a religion if they DIDNT make humans important simple because its very unlikely that a deity would create a species like humans and just ignore them forever or make them less important kind of like many pagan religions. That doesnt make any sense.
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
@GermanConquistador08 - Well as opposed to, for example, Quantum Wolf pooped out the universe and then left (essentially Deism with a few embellishments to make it a specific religion, as opposed to just "deism").
Most religious people think their beliefs accurately model reality. But why do most or all of these "true" models of reality put us at the center?
Venaloid 2 months ago
@Venaloid "Wolf pooped out the universe and then left (essentially Deism with a few embellishments to make it a specific religion" -..what are you talking about? "But why do most or all of these "true" models of reality put us at the center?" - Well, technically they put deities at the cener and humans often in the manner of the child, the servent, the followers but within their own realm. Humans are the center of the deities attention because theres really nothing else to pay attention to.
GermanConquistador08 2 months ago
They often say xtianity is different b/c it's the only religion where god reaches out to man instead of man toward god. However, it seems god is the selfish one here b/c he created humanity knowing that *most* humans would suffer eternally (according to the large xtianity group I used to associate with) so that he may be glorified. Of course that is according to my limited human perspective. ;)
BigIdeaSeeker 2 months ago
" find a religion that had nothing to do with humans at all"
That makes no sense.
The definition of religion is a systemized belief (by humans) in and worship of (by humans) a supernatural controlling power. Religion is our belief and worship activities. How can you divorce that from humanity? It wouldn't be religion then.
BattleshipTx 2 months ago
@BattleshipTx - Well obviously we humans would have to be the ones practicing this hypothetical religion, otherwise it wouldn't exist (for all we knew, anyway). My idea isn't that we'd have nothing to do with religion at all. I'm wondering why all the teachings of all religions seem to revolve around us or implicate us in some way. Why do we never see a religion that teaches about some alien race whose actions don't affect us in any way (or something like that)?
Venaloid 2 months ago
@Venaloid - Also, if you continue reading, you'll find that I went on to say, "our only connection to it [this hypothetical religion] is the fact that we know about it, but otherwise, we don't matter." The idea being that you never see a religion in which humans aren't involved or aren't "special" in some way.
Venaloid 2 months ago
"My idea isn't that we'd have nothing to do with religion at all"
Probably shouldn't have said: "I would be genuinely interested to find a religion that had nothing to do with humans at all" then. But okay, you mean:
"Why do we never see a religion...alien race whose actions don't affect us in any way"
Probably because their actions don't affect us in any way? We might have some mild curiosity about aliens that don't affect us, but wouldn't be likely to make a systemized belief system for it.
BattleshipTx 2 months ago
What about a religion more concerned with consciousness and sentience than the physical shell encapsulating/hosting it? I know it would involve us, but it'd be less concerned with the fact that one mind identified itself as "human" or if the mind was based in a less, squishy, system.
sarcleaeolist 2 months ago
That's an interesting point. I concur. I think most religions (minus Satanism & the like) are selfish, but sometimes TRY to be unselfish. In the case of Xianity, it's all about avoiding infinite punishment & attaining infinite reward (which is arguably selfish), but the Christian does, to some degree try to follow ONE of Jesus' examples by the whole "sacrificing", tithing thing. Sometimes it may be altruistic; other times it would appear to be self-serving altruism. Just my 2 cents.
WntrSolstice2012 2 months ago
@WntrSolstice2012 "sacrificing" (sacrificing their time / money, etc.)
WntrSolstice2012 2 months ago