Enough trash about the witnesses! It stops HERE & NOW! I ask anyone, all of you, is JEHOVAH the name of God the Father? Yes, or NO? Thats all! Is His name Jehovah, yes or no?? The answer is emphatically YES! The name appears 7,004 times in the older translations of the bible! I ask you, factually, did the Israelites worship Christ,, or,, Jehovah?? The right answer is, they NEVER KNEW CHRIST! He wasn't born yet! So, fact, the Jews worshiped the same God as the witnesses do! Fact! Get with people!
@geetarnut No they didnt worship Christ during the time before Christ. In fact most Jews didnt worship Christ after Christ, because they believed exactly like you. He wasnt God. Jesus makes the distinction that he is subordinate to the Fathers will not that he is less than the Father. In fact in the greek his language is emphatic that he is equal to the Father. This is what prompted the Jews to try to kill him on numerous occasions. You believe a lie. an ancient lie. Look up Arius
The Bible : ( New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)...PROVERBS 16: 6 " By Loving-kindness and trueness ERROR is atoned for , and in the fear of Jehovah one turns away from bad."
I applaud you Ramond Franz! It takes a lot of balls and integrity to turn your back on everything you know because you know your right and you do what is right because you believe in it.
I love this man; it is so rare for someone in his position to not be seething with bitterness and rage at an entire lifetime lost. He turned a monumental tragedy into a rare opportunity to educate the world.
Raymond; The Isreallites,did they not display organization when divided by twelve tribes,Was not the law of Moses a form to organize ones nation.Is not all creation in all its complexcity organized by law?Therefore would you say that the universe and its governing bodys (celestrial cosmos) are not organized,Have you not looked and notice the world is becoming disorganized(Dismanteled) to the event of their own demise.Like evolution the pieces fall randomly ,But kingdoms are organized,Jah that is
@ansermam well said, it's so sad that the other christian religions have let the people have there way, and been allowed to be so casual and carefree in life! That's why the world is so messed up, so carefree! And when you have a real, God fearing group try to be organized, they get bad-mouthed for it! WOW! Makes me sick,, can only imagine what it makes Jehovah feel,, he must be so patient! These people, they KNOW that Jehovah IS god's name, and they refuse to use, or, acknowledge it!
Raymond, who 'is' that "faithful and discreet slave" ? You beat up on your former brothers but who do you have to replace them? Although you defended your heavenly father with a fine fight, you chose to turn your back on him and go off to oblivion. Do I feel sorry for you? No, your doing such a fine job yourself. How does your father feel after your long and faithful service? His heart must be broken.
"@JRJSRJ I can show you from your bible that there is only ONE faith. But before I do,...show me from your bible that Jehovah is a trinitarian God. You will not find it anywhere." This was in my inbox. I dont see it here now. I must be blind. I am sorry. I will attempt to walk you through the scriptures but like I said earlier to on T8D8T's channel. It isnt a question of evidence. The evidence is there. It a matter of what you want to believe. I will post this and begin my answer.
@oneworldkingdom 18 But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. 23 “Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im·man´u·el,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”watchtowerorg/e/bible/mt/chapter_001.htm If you are a JW this is your bible.
@JRJSRJ If Jesus created anything at all he has to be God. Creation is a power reserved specifically for God. You believe that yourself. You believe Jehovah created everything. The bible agrees. If Jesus can create as Paul says he can he has to be God. If he is God he had to be brought forth by God. Matthew says the Holy Spirit did it. Spirits cannot reproduce sexually. Spirits cannot create, thats Gods alone. But Gods Spirit can create. The HS created an embryo.
@oneworldkingdom The HS created the embryo in Mary and the Son put his spirit into it. Thus the man Jesus was conceived. We know based on Collossians he had to exist prior to his birth in order to create anything at all. You are now at a paradox. It is theologically correct to say there was a time when the man Jesus was not. You cannot say that there has ever been a time when the Son was not. This where Christianity differs from cults. There is no one "true" church. there is true belief
@JRJSRJ you just don't get it,, is there a Father,, or NOT??? Why the use of the word FATHER all the time? And Christ always, always saying, "My Father, who is in Heaven, I do His will that has SENT ME! NOT MY OWN WILL AT ALL! Who was he so beholding to? and why? Why should Christ be so intent on worshiping the Father, that apparently had the name "JEHOVAH"? Answer that, but answer with scriptures, and NOT your own concoction, ok?
Your bible says the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, lets start there. Here is the perspective from the church fathers. A dog when it gives birth gives birth to the same kind as itself, ie a puppy. The same with a cat or gerbal or any thing else we know of. Now we look at his name and see that it is God with us. So scripture itself says God is in human flesh, at least thats the surface implication. So if verse 23 is correct then knowing that things only produce their own kind, logic says the
Holy Spirit must be God since it brought forth God. Hebrews refutes Jesus being an angel flatly refutes it. No angel has the power to give life or create anything. Colossians 1:16-17 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
Remember, even Paul said that we have much to be explained, and hard to understand. that is why articles are produced that explain it in an articulate way. If you have trouble understanding it, then ask questions, it's what the Boreans did. This man had a disagreement over how to disobey the law, to obey God. This is the central part of his argument. He left the beliefs he had for decades, based on an agreement that the law must be broken to obey God (Acts 5:27-29, 40-42)
ok so now you have clarified your view, but you don't understand. God may speak, but that doesn't mean that people know how to listen. Many people throughout history did not know what the "sacred secret" regarding the serpent and the woman meant - now we do. Was that due to God speaking again to people? no, it was due to people's listening. Listening in this world is not a priority - offering their own opinions while not addressing other's opinions, is the priority, because it's egocentric.
In response to jrjsrj: Science is supposed to adjust its beliefs based on the evidence provided, corect? Afford religions like Jehovah's Witnesses the same courtesy when they feel that perhaps they misinterpreted some aspect of their faith. Science once thought the world was flat, but was proved by evidence to the contrary. Accept that JW's try to adhere to the same scientific model of examination - just in relation to the Bible and the physical world, not only the physical world.
@intelceleron11 You cannot adjust Jesus deity friend. Jesus stated flatly in the scriptures he is God. The Jehovah's witnesses deny this based on the teachings of an ancient man named Arius. He was a heretic that first produced this line of thinking about the year 318 or so a.d. While science can find new information and adjust its views accordingly, the disclosure of Jesus identity is finished, the bible flatly states there is no further information forthcoming. Is 2+2=5 correct?
@JRJSRJ I tire of the same old assertions from trinitarians. How many times am I to prove using the scriptures, using definition of words, explaining ancient words? Tell you what - go to T8D8T's channel and follow the conversation there - you'll need to back up a page or two, though. Go ahead and look up the scriptures and prove the assertions wrong, based on what you know, after you've heard the facts. T8 actually has 47 questions for trinitarians, you may want to try to disprove those too.
@intelceleron11 you ask why science and a false religion are not afforded the same opportunity to change their views. I answer your question. Now you change the discussion to go there is more evidence over here go look at this and disprove this guy. The information/revelation of God is finished. There is noforthcoming information to man from God. He has said all he is going to say until his return. Science is still learning. That is the difference.
@intelceleron11 How science and religion handle their respective fields is what determines whether or not they are trustworthy. Science that modifies its views due to new information is trustworthy. A group that calls themselves Christian that modifies its views based on political pressure, social convenience, or personal preference is not trustworthy. You cannot get to the beliefs they espouse without a complicated argument from their magazine. Their bible doesn't support their beliefs.
Franz whole problem with JWs is that they are calling themselves Christ's church. or his channel for faith and truth. You can only believe one or 2 things here. That there is more than one channel or faith to Christ, or there really is only one faith. After that,...take your pick. I think JWs fit what Christ says is the identifying mark of the true religion. Love. All of the other laws hang on that one principle and quality.
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
@JRJSRJ Moses made only one prophetic statement. He was a prophet that commanded people and kept the ordinances of God. Not all prophets tell the future. His prophecy did come to pass in that Jesus came to earth. Look at Deuteronomy 18:17-20. Moses was wrong in that he did not follow God's command specifically. God told Moses to speak to the rock to provide water, Moses struck the rock with his staff instead. Thats what he got in trouble for, not doeing as God commanded.
@mbproject21 No,, not all,, I'm not one and i gave it one! I have known many witnesses, and my mother was one until she passed away! They are on the right track! Ask yourself, if Jehovah is God's name, why don't all christian religions use it, speak it and share it!? If I knew you, and knew your name, but never ever used it, would you appreciate that? Just think how God feels, and He tells us he doesn't like that in the bible, read it!!!
He was a very brave man to leave an organization he had given his life to. Having not much more than the clothes on his back but left with a good conscience. The Watchtower Society claims to correct their errors when it comes to their attention. They are very good at hiding all their inaccurate predictions from their own members. They are afraid that if their members understands their past errors the organization will collapse. They should be afraid of offending the Almighty.
Your Beef is with JESUS ! He set the rules.. Who do you think hes talking to at Mat: 7 :22 ??Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness
He's not talking to the Pharisee..Hes talking to ALL WHO CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN But Don't do what HE Teaches.STEP OUT OF YOUR BOX AND LOOK
oh I see.Lets shoot the messanger's and the message will go away,Right?
Hey It worked with Jesus?? the apostle Paul Right..You make NO since when it comes to the message of whats right and whats wrong in light of Jesus's teachings.
You show me Where Jesus or any of his TRUE Followers Did Birthday party's??
Mother's Day etc!! YOU CANT BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T! Thats A Fact! WHY??
Because The WORLD (ROMANS<THE PHARISEE and THE PAGAN"S DID!
WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE NO PART OF THE WORLD?Hummm??
Gods Holy Spirit is His Power and Might..He comands it It does what ever Almighty GOD tells it to do.Everything exist as the results of his force being Active.He give his Son Jesus The Ability to use it and give it at his comand It acts as Jehovah Comand's it. Jehovah Is the only true GOD Why? The same Jesus you claim to follow Says so.John 17 :3,,,Do you Believe him?
HIS BOOK IS WHAT MADE HIM RICH.AND FOR WHAT? ITS DOING HIM NO GOOD NOW.AS FOR THE TRUTH? what do you know about truth? Our Lord Jesus stated that the two things needed to worship his Father was Spirit and Truth in John Chapter 4
Most people sadly have more spirit for there football team than they Have for Jehovah.If you are so conserned as a christian,Then you need to Question what you beleave in light of the scriptures.You will find Many things you believe that are Myths
dear friend:) the wind is more powerful then something to ignore,however I tell you that the Witnesses are exalting the Holy Spirit in the same way the Bible exalt the Holy spirit. I talk about principles < I am not JW, I just want peace between people and true love, forgiveness and joy. I dont like when people judge as bad each other, and lose what is real important. You know what is real important?
Jesus is directing the Faithful and Discrete slave.It is his organization.not the Watchtowers or the Gov body.they belong to him and follow him just as Jesus Follows the Father..I thank Jehovah that he is Organized.Can you imagine where the planets would be if he were not organized?? He has the Master Plan and its working well.. Read the Book
@KarmaFlu WOW thats cool! I hope you succeed. I cant see it though, 1st amendment allows this. A court would throw it out if it ever made it that far. How do you think the LDS has lasted as long as they have? You know the LDS and JW's started roughly at the same time. The JW's are a branch of 2nd Adventist really. They have more in common with 7th day adventist though.
@JRJSRJ Adventist ? and why did he leave? why Did he spend his fortune trying to get people to look at what they were following? Because The church wasen't paying attention to the true teachings of Christ..Just like the pharisee they would rather hold to the teachings of Man..You Need a Bible Study!!
@acecharlie1 Am I to understand you are a JW? Do you not know the history of the organization we are discussing? I am not being sarcastic I am just trying to clarify. The JW's came into being in 1869. Their belief system comes from a man named Arius and his heresy from the 3rd century. Hence the term Arian. NOT to be confused with the race. The founder Charles Taze Russell did NOT believe what modern day JW's believe. He was a 2nd Adventist and had a problem reconciling eternal punishment.
@aceharlie1 The beliefs of the JW's have changed each time they realize they have hit a theological impasse. Cults have 3 things in common, 1. prophet, 2. extra biblical writings, 3. minimize Jesus. Every cult has that in common. There is not enough space in this little box for a complete rundown of the lies the WTS has told. In short the biblical test of a true prophet is 100% accuracy, the WTS has failed that miserably. No true prophet of God is EVER wrong on any aspect.
@JRJSRJ what then?? Who out there is the true christian church? Who follows Jesus's teaching to the T ?
The one thing that did catch my attention about the JW's when I was studying their religion is this.When they realize they are Wrong about a teaching,They do make the needed correction. as I see it from an outsider looking in All theother churches do not. its easy to call someone a cult.in the light your using,Then All religions are a cult.
@oneworldkingdom "And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven. Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a 'prophet' of Jehovah was among them." (The Watchtower, 4-1-72, p. 200)." Recognize that? Its from your magazine. Your own society claims it. Every prediction they have made failed. They have failed the test of a prophet.God says leave them
@oneworldkingdom You must be new at this. The original watch tower magazines were issued the at the first of the year with page 1 as their beginning and kept running consecutively throughout the year never resetting. So the page NUMBER is accurate not the number of pages in the magazine. That way they could track what was said at what point in the year more precisely. It kinda backfired on them though. NOT ONE prophetic statement they have ever made has come to pass.
@JRJSRJ What constitutes a prophet of God today is not the same as what constituted as a prophet of God during Christ and before. No one has the ability to fortell the future or any powers to speak of like the prophet(s) of old. Christ was the last. Would their be a faithful slave class group living today? Yes. But you would not recognize them by prophecies or powers and resurrection. What constitutes as a prophet today is a body of members baring witness to the prophecies already foretold.
@oneworldkingdom typical JW now start into word games and dodging. The requirements for a prophet have NOT EVER changed nor will they. WHY? Because they are God's way of showing believers that they are being led astray and being lied to. God does not change his mind nor does his word change. You believe a lie my friend. I used to be a JW. I was raised a JW. My entire family is JW except for me and my mother now. We both finally realized we were lied to. Wake up before its too late.
@JRJSRJ There is nothing to dodge. JWs have never made a false prophecy. They have MISREAD the prophecy that had alredy been written. But they themselves have never formulated any prophecies of their own. They simply interpret the prophecies already written. There is a diff. As the truth becomes brighter, the more they shed more light on the prophecy. And this is where opposers fail.Because people are realizing that you are unjustly accusing JWs. You should be careful of that in the future.
@oneworldkingdom you really are naive. You do know they predicted Jesus return in 1914? You deny the deity of Jesus Christ you yourself stand condemned by your own words. If you believe what the organization tells you then you have denied the deity of Christ. Which put you in direct conflict with God, not serving him as you claim. Do you know the history of your organization and belief system? It began with a man named Arius. It is an ancient heresy.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
You believe Jesus is an angel/Michael. Hebrews 1 refutes that heresy. God has you beat.
@JRJSRJ What you're giving me is interpretation to your new found religious beliefs. The "prediction", as you call it is based on a prophecy already written. I call it interpretating prophecy. And from the events that unfolded that year, it was certainly accurate, Jesus had turned his attention to the earth as King. The point is,your twisted lies and accusations can easily be unraveled. You failed because you were weak. That is why you are where you are,..and 7.5 million are spiritually safe.
@oneworldkingdom It never fails. The sure fire guarantee of a of a cult. Exclusivity. Christianity makes no distinctions. We are Christians. Christ didnt call Jehovah's Witnesses. "They were first called Christians at Antioch." Baptists dont think Methodists are going to hell, at least not all of them. We dont think any denomination is going to hell based on its denomination. We all have the same fundamental belief. The JW's however say if you are not a JW you are dead.
@oneworldkingdom If you were a Christian denomination instead of a cult you would hold the same core beliefs but since you rely on a magazine instead of your bible its impossible for you to have the same beliefs. Its your arrogance that keeps you separated despite the evidence in front of you. Your ancient founder Arius was cast out as a heretic and now you follow a belief system revived only 142 years ago. While the heresy is ancient this form is new. You are too naive to check into it though
@JRJSRJ The form that you speak of that is new is the revival of Christianity which was prophecied to occur. And you speak of the "core beliefs" as if nothing else matters, such as Jehovah. If you know your bible then you know how important the truth about Christ's father was to him. But yet, you think its not suppose to be important to his followers? This is the whole purpose of Christianity. To do his father's will. And there is one faith, not many leading to the same place.
@oneworldkingdom show me the verse or verses you use to support this claim and while you are at it why dont you switch to messaging me so we can get rid of this 350 character limit. Its tedious. You will not find anywhere in the scriptures and I know your bible, that say anything about one denomination. There was no such thing. Christian belief boils down to three things. The trinity, the divinity of the Son, and finality of the word of God as disclosed by Jesus. There is no other prophet.
@JRJSRJ I can show you from your bible that there is only ONE faith. But before I do,...show me from your bible that Jehovah is a trinitarian God. You will not find it anywhere.
@KarmaFlu no I dont think they would care one bit. JW's are taught that they are the teachers of mankind. They are NEVER allowed to examine their beliefs. If they question their beliefs they are subject to being disfellowshipped. The average individual is not bad just misguided. They are deceived. Jesus is the only one that can stop them. In real Christianity people change churches all the time but we dont stop having dealings or being friends with them. The JW's ostracize people that leave.
@KarmaFlu God showed him the truth. That the society is really a demonic lying false prophet. They lead many astray to their condemnation. He wanted no part in it. He could have stayed with them and remained wealthy. Instead he gave it up was persecuted relentlessly by the WTS. The Bible says that if you lead anyone away from the truth its better to have a millstone hung around your neck and be thrown in the ocean! He chose correctly. God has used him to save many who were lied to
Hello, I am not a JW's person, but I want to ask those who agree with Raymond Franz ideas, is Jesus telling us that we shall make disciples? So what others religions based on the Bible are doing this? As I know only the Witnesses. I am really interested in this, In my life I made many mistakes, but Now I want to follow Jesus and Glorify God with all my heart. So how can I do that? I think we should not only criticizes but also give alternatives.
@EVA1first umm you need to do your own research and not ask for other peoples thoughts. you have google and all that. christians are doing the work of God. jw's are not the only ones who do missions around the world. i know people are not jw's who are christians and they are missionaries
@EVA1first - If you think the JW's are the only ones making disciples, you really need to get educated about the subject. - Did you know that the JW's don't even believe in the Holy Spirit? And this despite the book of John clearly giving it the qualities of a person...being able to be grieved, comfort, teach, and speak. - This is just one small example of why they do not have the "truth."
@GungHo1032 ,,Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you''.( Luke 11:9)
This is what i am doing, I m searching for the true. But I know that Jesus teach us to follow him, not with the a hardened heart, but with a heart full of love and forgiveness. Not with a cold heart but with one which give help &listen to those who suffer.
@EVA1first Then answer me this,,Why Did Jesus Teach the apostles and all those others at that time and send them out to preach the good news of Gods Kingdom? Were we not to Listen to them??Did Not Jehovah pore out his Holy Spirit out on them and Did he not use them to bring us the Scriptures so we could search them to find the truth?Did not Jesus say we had to dig as if we were digging for pearls and fine silver? Ask? Knock?Sounds like it involves action on our part!!
@acecharlie1 Yes I agree with you , we all have to testify God's Kingdom in the name of Jesus Christ. But for this we need to follow Jesus way with a sincere heart. Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them''(John 14:23)
We also need to study the Bible, in order to get closer to God, and for this the JW are always ready to help :)
Most people when the door is opened they poke their head in and see what is required to be a real Christian and then quietly close the door thinking maybe he didn't see me.Then go back to there designer religion that suits their life style
@acecharlie1 - Yeah when they see that "real" Christians will get cut off and shunned for stuff like having a birthday party, sending a mothers day card, voting, giving or taking blood, supporting the troops, or even visiting another church...the quickly SLAM the door and leave. - Then they seek out true Christianity.
Most people when the door is opened they poke their head in and see what is required to be a real Christian and then quietly close the door thinking maybe he didn't see me.Then go back to there designer religion that suits their life style
@GungHo1032 In this way shall be a disciple, somebody who is interested to save life and offer life in Jesus Christ Glory. There are people who lost the hope in this life and even forgot about Jesus promise, what could you say to them? Did Raymond Franz talked about this? So is not more important to save a life then to criticize without desire to make somebody change his mistake? You said the JW dont believe in the Holy Spirit, but that is not true. Why you think that?
@EVA1first - Are you a Witness? If so, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you to hear you believe in the Holy Ghost. I mean considering the Witnesses teach the the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, is nothing but an "active force," like the wind. - Tell me, who are you trying to fool here? My statements are easily confirmed. Read Franz's book titled In Search of Christian Freedom.
and if it is all the same person then the holy spirit never decended upon him because if the holy spirit is him then it would have never left him, it would always have been him because as those say the trinity is one, then why and when would they seperate, come one this is to easy, why yee make this hard on ones self, and if they are all one then john 3 16 is not correct that god gave his only son, so its a lie god gave himself? i really dont know the arguments, and dont wanna waste my time!
The image of the dove and was to full fill scripture of the O.T. John the Baptist was told to look for this. It marked the beginning of Jesus ministry. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same substance and one being but three separate entities. The Father is Not the Son or Holy Spirit, The Son is NOT the Father or Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father or the Son. They are all distinct but made of one. Like a squares relationship to a cube.
@JRJSRJ Actually, the "dove" was to let readers know that "Iesous" is a literary gloss for Titus the Destroyer, Destroyer of Jerusalem and the Temple and Roman Emperor. "Titus" means "dove".
@JRJSRJ What you have just said makes no comprehendible sense. Are they the same or not? are they sepertate entities or not. I understand that they have the same or similar natures but nature is different from identity.
@Lad24LFC my friend that is the mystery of Christianity. Biblical Christianity affirms that God has revealed himself in different ways throughout the ages. Think of a cube. It is a collection of squares. if you look at it head on you just see a square but its still a cube. you give it a quarter turn and you see detail. you see that its actually multiple squares making one object. That is as close to understanding the nature of the Godhead as you are going to get! God is cool like that
anyone who is jw and is obssesed with the numbers of followers within the jw,and thinks that is enough for salvation, may god bless thier soul, there will be many mor ethan that, i dont really know what peoople argue when it comes to th holy trinity, all i know is that some people say that they are all one person, well if jesus is god, then he actualy sacraficed himself, and the test he put abraham to and all teh other prophesies from the prophets mean nothing,
it is also written who to any one who so a smuch as changes a single dot of the scrptures it would have been better had he not been born. i believe nothing is in there that is not supposed to be in there, thats why i dont believe in ANY denomination, i prefer to hold to what is cristlike and god sent, and that is all, woe to you who waste time in finding and arguiong of the scrptures as the other teacxhers of the law in the past should you not be helping some one else.
You are wrong. The bible does NOT say this. It says not one Jot or Tittle will pass away. It says, "if anyone leads any of these little ones astray it would be better if he had not been born." You are trying to combine two verses.
the holy spirit and my 13 year old brain told me that i had never read that in the bible, and when a 20 yr old woman kissed me there i knew that was not the place for me, i never reported it, and no real harm was done but all in all, if its not in the bible it wasnt revealed to you, if it was revealed then we will see it in the bible, if someone says that ingreek it means this and that in hebrew it means that do not be confused, be crist like and that is all be last so you will be first, amen
that apostate shave nothing better to offer, the apostates do not offer but god offers, i do not judge you but you should ask for wisdom, i went to christian cathlic mormons jw churches from 5 to 17 yrs of age and i know god sent me to most of them so i can see the truth, i was only 13 whn i knew for sure i had never read anything about an imaginary cloud hovering over me so that i would not see my previous life and that i had already been reincarnated to have a second life as the mormons say
as far as not believeing in hell ire if you dont belive in hell fire, then you dont believe in jesus for his teaching teach of hell, it is clear to see what is written, how can thier be heaven and not a hell, of course thier is such, what of the rich man who asks abraham to let lazarus to give him a drink to quench his thirst, where wa he at when he aske dfor this drink certainly not at the ozark oasis, in some fruitopia, or the melted mountain glaciers, what poor excuse to say that apostates
any one who dose not do my work dose the work of thier father (satan) we all know who says this, the beloved lamb, and if you truly believ he died for your sins pleas do not manupulite or let meere men tell you what interpretations they have of him instead ask the holy spirit to guide wou and ask god for wisdom this way ypu wont say that apostates have nothing better to offer god has everything to offer you but if you chose to be manipulated there is little he can do you have the free will
i am always easily angerd by the jw first of all they do not know teh scriptures, for one, anyone that doneates or recieves blood is not deemed clean in thier eyes, whne jesus was brought a man who helped his animal out of a hole teh teachers of the law sought to trap him, and he said to them which is better to do on the sabath to do good or do evil, so i ask myself why is it so hard for jw to dicern gods truth, most is self explanitory, except revalations the rest is just satans guidance.
Here is my beef with apostates,they never offer anything better,just bitterness over their so called poor treatment. Are you really naive enough to believe that there are enough numbers,enough people who care to change the established system of JW's?
I see they are not perfect but I also see that no other religion that comes closer to ancient biblical beliefs about God's name,hellfire and trinity to name a few. Coming full circle,what shall we turn away to,bitterness and rebellion?
There are only two ways any human can serve God. You can serve Him as a servant, and work for wages or the hope of reward. Or, you can serve Him as His child, in absolute love without fear. Jesus made the later possible.
All Christians, Jews and Muslims, worship a bronze-age, tribal-deity of war who according to their own "holy" books has killed countless men, women, and children. They then raise this repugnant monster to the status of the "Most High" and 'loving". This is pure insanity! and that billions do it, doesn't make it any less so.
Little wonder the world is in such a mess when so many worship a god far less loving that they probably are. It poisons the soul.
this man has the real truth and found out who does not have the truth at all, but all the people have been brainwashed that think that only they have the truth and all other people are evil but them, I guess the witnesses fall under the description of a cult as well as other groups
13 People dislike this video? I feel very sad for you JW who chose to dislike this video, this man has done so much in his life and helped people leave a destrctive cult, like the one you attend, We must thank God for giveing us such an honest person who helped so many people, and please help this 13 blind souls. JW's take your bibles and read (Matthew 7:15 ). It's Time to wake up, and give your life to who it belongs YOU not a organisation. Thanks for uploading the video, and rest in peace Ray.
Ray Franz was a fraud. He was never anointed. He never felt what the real anointed felt thats why he claims Governing Body was doing mens work. How the heck did he become GB anyways? He had crisis of identity NOT crisis of conscience
Ray Franz was a fraud, he was never anointed. Thats why he claimed Governing Body was doing men's work because he never felt what the anointed brothers felt. How the heck did he become GB anyways?? He had Crisis of Identity NOT crisis of conscience.
@basenock You have Crisis with your brain! Ray is a hero! He speaks the Truth!When you read his books,you see: THAT`S THE TRUTH in the WTC ! And I see that in 30 years as aJW!!!
@basenock ive known close to 7-10 annointed..of those, about 3 of them are still serving a JW..Ask every annointed how they know they are annointed and you will get this look like I JUST KNOW - which honestly - is a BS answer..they dont know..my brothers motherinlaw is annointed..but yet the lady will hump me if Igave her a chance and I have caught her drunk..so pleas spare me the BS "he never felt what the anointed felt"..
@basenock You just contradicted yourself? "how the heck did he become GB anyways"?? Isn't that the GB itself who appointed him, no?! so, what you are saying is that they made a mistake? Is that what you are saying? So, they are "infallible" or not? What are you saying??? And what does anointment have anything to do with reason? You are way too emotional for this discussion my friend. Way too emotional.
@basenock If what you say are true, then why didn't the "anointed" members of the Governing Body know that he wasn't anointed? Why didn't God give them a sign? And if he could get on the Governing Body and not be "anointed", then how do you know that there are any really "anointed" members on the Governing Body at all?
I'm so sorry to hear about Brother Franzs' passing ... I would have wanted to meet and speak with him in person ... "You will be with me in Paradise" - Luke 23:43.
@swampwatch what I don't seem to understand about you people is the fact that you are constantly told not to be on such sites as these and yet you still continue to do so same as you are not allowed to listen to ozzy yet you probably do that too. My point is this why even care so much about an apostate like Raymond who has admitted to the sinister workings in the bethel? I thought you had to cast out all apostates. Read your bible again without the JW's aids. Come to your own conclusions.
@lizazoon yeah I truly believe that too however, giving that I was brought up in this religion as a kid and finding my own way out of it and expressing my own opinions and beliefs system to myself I find it dis-heartening that so many people are still blind sided by this one religion/cult whatever you wish to call it. Their are many idiots in that religion same as there is in a lot of them. Hence the reason why the suggestion to swampwatch go do some soul searching and come to own conclusion.
Respond to this video...Exactly! Isn't that called hypocrisy or has the Watchtower found some sort of reason why you should be on this site talking to US!
It's funny that JW's when you mention Raymond Franz, they will not hear anything you have to say, because in their eyes, the Watchtower has labeled him an apostate.
I've finished reading Crisis book and I must say the majority of that book was well done. It's always odd how one is very critical of an organisation they once so actively supported and "apostates" are reasonably not the bets people to gain an understanding of a religious oranisation as they often had biases but Mr. Franz addressed things with a measure of reason unseen in many criticisms. Sad to hear of the man's passing.
Raymond warned us in "C of C": Beware of “organization.” It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? Life is uncertain and when a man dies what he knows dies along with him—unless he passes it on while still in life. You passed it on and opened our eyes. YOU WILL BE MISSED BY THOUSANDS.
One thing i dont understand and maybe some one can help me with this. Why is it when someone leaves the organization or gets disfellowshiped they call Jehovah God just God? They no longer say his name Jehovah. Why is that?
@Journeyride Good question. I would say that when a person disassociates themseleves from JW's they stop using the name Jehovah to refer to God, and just say God to give it a worldy understanding etc.
Most don't, correct. But Jesus didn't! There is not ONE instance in scripture where Jesus used God's proper name. Instead he referred to him as "Father". It could also be that they [including myself] have become aware of the JW mistranslation of John 1:1.
"we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed." Titus 2:13.
@tommotian Hello Of course Jesus used God's proper name. When he was baptized he went straight to the temple and read Isa 61 where it says: "The spirit of Jehovah anointed me." Jesus said that he fullfilled the prophets right down to the very letter. If he didn't use God's proper name right to the very letter when quoting Isaiah's prophecy then he lied!!!
Of course he didn't lie if he quoted from a copy of Isaiah in Greek that did not contain the tetragrammaton. We do not know if he used the tetragrammaton or not. We have to go by the best ancient source texts extant, and they are in Koine-Greek, and in not one of them does the tetragrammaton appear.
You cannot translate into the Christian Greek scriptures what is NOT in source!!
Doing THAT is a lie and a tampering with the text.
wizzy, don't misunderstand me. By no means am against using the proper name of God. All I'm saying is that it is more important that we accept the facts for what they are, whether we like them or not.
It can never be a question of my truth, or your truth, or that of the JWs, but of truth AS IS whether we [including myself] like being confronted by it or not.
So we have to go by what we have in the best Greek source texts.
We go by what we have, not by what we WANT to be there.
@tommotian I was wondering if you dispute the bible scholars that say that in the original textus receptus that Isaiah used the tetragrammoton. I don't care if the Septuigent that the Lord most likely quoted from deleted the divine name, the fact remains that if Isaiah originally wrote the divine name then Jesus must have spoke it right to the very letter or else who would not have fullfilled the law and the prophets right to the very letter.
Principles for translation are rock-hard on this: You have no right to insert into the translated text what is not in source. In this case, the tetrgrammaton is NOT in source translated from. You have NO RIGHT to tramper with the text translated FROM. What you say about the prophets is THEOLOGY, not translation.
A translator MUST be as faithful to the contents itself he's translating from as is possible.
@tommotian If Isa used the tetragrammaton then there is no question in my mind that Jesus spoke such. That being the case it is my opinion that then I have no problem with inserting the divine name in a translation. It would be obvious that the manuscripts that the Vaticon 1209 and the Siniatica came from violated the "Prinicples for translation." Simply put the scriptures do say that Jesus spoke the divine name. JMHO
Sorry, I cannot yield from principles of translation.
I will aways maintain that you cannot translate FROM source what is NOT there - i.e. the tetragrammaton - into the text translated TO [= NT].
For if you do, you tamper with source. There is no getting away with it.
Apart from that I agree with you.
Don't confuse translation with theology! It is never a question of what you or I think ought to be in the translated TO text, but instead of what is actually there IN SOURCE.
@tommotian No you don't offend me. Maybe I misunderstood an earlier posting of yours. I thought you were saying there is no evidence in the scriptures that the Lord spoke the divine name. since you admit that Isa wrote the divine name then would you agree that those who that translated the Septuigent added Adonai in violation of Proverbs 30:6? I personally don't consider it to be adding to God's word when you restore it to it;s original condition. JMHO- Todd
@tommotian Tom what do you think of this? I think the meaning of the divine name is: Powerful Creative Light. Each hebrew syllable has a definition. Yad means power. Hey means Light. Vav means Creative (possibly healing). So wouldn't Yadhevavhe Powerful creative light? Or perhaps powerful healing light? What do you think?
It was written in Hebrew. We would call it the Hebrew scriptures. Others call it the Old Testament [OT] when translated into, say, English. Or Swedish, the language of my country.
RIP Raymond Franz and second to all JWs who are reading in here there is only one mediator between you and God and that's Jesus Christ who made you judge of this man or even of any of your brothers and sisters? the focus of the bible is Salvation through Jesus Christ not the governing body read your bible and draw your own conclusion and ask God to send you holy spirit to understand it.
Enough trash about the witnesses! It stops HERE & NOW! I ask anyone, all of you, is JEHOVAH the name of God the Father? Yes, or NO? Thats all! Is His name Jehovah, yes or no?? The answer is emphatically YES! The name appears 7,004 times in the older translations of the bible! I ask you, factually, did the Israelites worship Christ,, or,, Jehovah?? The right answer is, they NEVER KNEW CHRIST! He wasn't born yet! So, fact, the Jews worshiped the same God as the witnesses do! Fact! Get with people!
geetarnut 3 weeks ago
@geetarnut No they didnt worship Christ during the time before Christ. In fact most Jews didnt worship Christ after Christ, because they believed exactly like you. He wasnt God. Jesus makes the distinction that he is subordinate to the Fathers will not that he is less than the Father. In fact in the greek his language is emphatic that he is equal to the Father. This is what prompted the Jews to try to kill him on numerous occasions. You believe a lie. an ancient lie. Look up Arius
JRJSRJ 3 weeks ago
The Bible : ( New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)...PROVERBS 16: 6 " By Loving-kindness and trueness ERROR is atoned for , and in the fear of Jehovah one turns away from bad."
keithcccstudent 1 month ago
Wow,
I applaud you Ramond Franz! It takes a lot of balls and integrity to turn your back on everything you know because you know your right and you do what is right because you believe in it.
Bryanpike72 1 month ago
I love this man; it is so rare for someone in his position to not be seething with bitterness and rage at an entire lifetime lost. He turned a monumental tragedy into a rare opportunity to educate the world.
727Phoenix 1 month ago 2
give your house to the watchtower and stay alive in 75.
jwawesome1 2 months ago
it's really a brilliant business model. it confounds everyone. simple as that.
jwawesome1 2 months ago
Raymond; The Isreallites,did they not display organization when divided by twelve tribes,Was not the law of Moses a form to organize ones nation.Is not all creation in all its complexcity organized by law?Therefore would you say that the universe and its governing bodys (celestrial cosmos) are not organized,Have you not looked and notice the world is becoming disorganized(Dismanteled) to the event of their own demise.Like evolution the pieces fall randomly ,But kingdoms are organized,Jah that is
ansermam 2 months ago 3
@ansermam well said, it's so sad that the other christian religions have let the people have there way, and been allowed to be so casual and carefree in life! That's why the world is so messed up, so carefree! And when you have a real, God fearing group try to be organized, they get bad-mouthed for it! WOW! Makes me sick,, can only imagine what it makes Jehovah feel,, he must be so patient! These people, they KNOW that Jehovah IS god's name, and they refuse to use, or, acknowledge it!
geetarnut 3 weeks ago
Raymond, who 'is' that "faithful and discreet slave" ? You beat up on your former brothers but who do you have to replace them? Although you defended your heavenly father with a fine fight, you chose to turn your back on him and go off to oblivion. Do I feel sorry for you? No, your doing such a fine job yourself. How does your father feel after your long and faithful service? His heart must be broken.
DocHolliday63 2 months ago 2
@DocHolliday63 watchtower lied. its just that simple.
greatgatsb9o921o 2 months ago
"@JRJSRJ I can show you from your bible that there is only ONE faith. But before I do,...show me from your bible that Jehovah is a trinitarian God. You will not find it anywhere." This was in my inbox. I dont see it here now. I must be blind. I am sorry. I will attempt to walk you through the scriptures but like I said earlier to on T8D8T's channel. It isnt a question of evidence. The evidence is there. It a matter of what you want to believe. I will post this and begin my answer.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@oneworldkingdom 18 But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. 23 “Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im·man´u·el,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”watchtowerorg/e/bible/mt/chapter_001.htm If you are a JW this is your bible.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@JRJSRJ If Jesus created anything at all he has to be God. Creation is a power reserved specifically for God. You believe that yourself. You believe Jehovah created everything. The bible agrees. If Jesus can create as Paul says he can he has to be God. If he is God he had to be brought forth by God. Matthew says the Holy Spirit did it. Spirits cannot reproduce sexually. Spirits cannot create, thats Gods alone. But Gods Spirit can create. The HS created an embryo.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@oneworldkingdom The HS created the embryo in Mary and the Son put his spirit into it. Thus the man Jesus was conceived. We know based on Collossians he had to exist prior to his birth in order to create anything at all. You are now at a paradox. It is theologically correct to say there was a time when the man Jesus was not. You cannot say that there has ever been a time when the Son was not. This where Christianity differs from cults. There is no one "true" church. there is true belief
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@JRJSRJ you just don't get it,, is there a Father,, or NOT??? Why the use of the word FATHER all the time? And Christ always, always saying, "My Father, who is in Heaven, I do His will that has SENT ME! NOT MY OWN WILL AT ALL! Who was he so beholding to? and why? Why should Christ be so intent on worshiping the Father, that apparently had the name "JEHOVAH"? Answer that, but answer with scriptures, and NOT your own concoction, ok?
geetarnut 3 weeks ago
Your bible says the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, lets start there. Here is the perspective from the church fathers. A dog when it gives birth gives birth to the same kind as itself, ie a puppy. The same with a cat or gerbal or any thing else we know of. Now we look at his name and see that it is God with us. So scripture itself says God is in human flesh, at least thats the surface implication. So if verse 23 is correct then knowing that things only produce their own kind, logic says the
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
Holy Spirit must be God since it brought forth God. Hebrews refutes Jesus being an angel flatly refutes it. No angel has the power to give life or create anything. Colossians 1:16-17 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
itsacult
jwawesome1 2 months ago
Remember, even Paul said that we have much to be explained, and hard to understand. that is why articles are produced that explain it in an articulate way. If you have trouble understanding it, then ask questions, it's what the Boreans did. This man had a disagreement over how to disobey the law, to obey God. This is the central part of his argument. He left the beliefs he had for decades, based on an agreement that the law must be broken to obey God (Acts 5:27-29, 40-42)
intelceleron11 2 months ago
ok so now you have clarified your view, but you don't understand. God may speak, but that doesn't mean that people know how to listen. Many people throughout history did not know what the "sacred secret" regarding the serpent and the woman meant - now we do. Was that due to God speaking again to people? no, it was due to people's listening. Listening in this world is not a priority - offering their own opinions while not addressing other's opinions, is the priority, because it's egocentric.
intelceleron11 2 months ago
In response to jrjsrj: Science is supposed to adjust its beliefs based on the evidence provided, corect? Afford religions like Jehovah's Witnesses the same courtesy when they feel that perhaps they misinterpreted some aspect of their faith. Science once thought the world was flat, but was proved by evidence to the contrary. Accept that JW's try to adhere to the same scientific model of examination - just in relation to the Bible and the physical world, not only the physical world.
intelceleron11 3 months ago
@intelceleron11 You cannot adjust Jesus deity friend. Jesus stated flatly in the scriptures he is God. The Jehovah's witnesses deny this based on the teachings of an ancient man named Arius. He was a heretic that first produced this line of thinking about the year 318 or so a.d. While science can find new information and adjust its views accordingly, the disclosure of Jesus identity is finished, the bible flatly states there is no further information forthcoming. Is 2+2=5 correct?
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@JRJSRJ I tire of the same old assertions from trinitarians. How many times am I to prove using the scriptures, using definition of words, explaining ancient words? Tell you what - go to T8D8T's channel and follow the conversation there - you'll need to back up a page or two, though. Go ahead and look up the scriptures and prove the assertions wrong, based on what you know, after you've heard the facts. T8 actually has 47 questions for trinitarians, you may want to try to disprove those too.
intelceleron11 2 months ago
@intelceleron11 you ask why science and a false religion are not afforded the same opportunity to change their views. I answer your question. Now you change the discussion to go there is more evidence over here go look at this and disprove this guy. The information/revelation of God is finished. There is noforthcoming information to man from God. He has said all he is going to say until his return. Science is still learning. That is the difference.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@intelceleron11 How science and religion handle their respective fields is what determines whether or not they are trustworthy. Science that modifies its views due to new information is trustworthy. A group that calls themselves Christian that modifies its views based on political pressure, social convenience, or personal preference is not trustworthy. You cannot get to the beliefs they espouse without a complicated argument from their magazine. Their bible doesn't support their beliefs.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
Franz whole problem with JWs is that they are calling themselves Christ's church. or his channel for faith and truth. You can only believe one or 2 things here. That there is more than one channel or faith to Christ, or there really is only one faith. After that,...take your pick. I think JWs fit what Christ says is the identifying mark of the true religion. Love. All of the other laws hang on that one principle and quality.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
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qalaquendi2 3 months ago
@qalaquendi2 Deuteronomy 18:22 (ESV)
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ Moses made only one prophetic statement. He was a prophet that commanded people and kept the ordinances of God. Not all prophets tell the future. His prophecy did come to pass in that Jesus came to earth. Look at Deuteronomy 18:17-20. Moses was wrong in that he did not follow God's command specifically. God told Moses to speak to the rock to provide water, Moses struck the rock with his staff instead. Thats what he got in trouble for, not doeing as God commanded.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
RIP RAY FRANZ
DocMegabrain 5 months ago 2
John 14:6
dallywally72 5 months ago
I bet the 19 people who gave this brilliant video a thumbs down are JWs lol.
mbproject21 6 months ago 10
@mbproject21 The very fact they're here means they may still have hope.
survivalrod 2 months ago
@mbproject21 No,, not all,, I'm not one and i gave it one! I have known many witnesses, and my mother was one until she passed away! They are on the right track! Ask yourself, if Jehovah is God's name, why don't all christian religions use it, speak it and share it!? If I knew you, and knew your name, but never ever used it, would you appreciate that? Just think how God feels, and He tells us he doesn't like that in the bible, read it!!!
geetarnut 3 weeks ago
He was a very brave man to leave an organization he had given his life to. Having not much more than the clothes on his back but left with a good conscience. The Watchtower Society claims to correct their errors when it comes to their attention. They are very good at hiding all their inaccurate predictions from their own members. They are afraid that if their members understands their past errors the organization will collapse. They should be afraid of offending the Almighty.
torrents4u2c 6 months ago 2
@torrents4u2c The are arrogant and puffed up exactly what the Bible tells them NOT to be....so sad.
girlznguitarz 3 months ago
Forever Love..
Allinone
HawkeyeDigitalFilms 7 months ago
Just another indication that organized religion is bullshit.
MrJrnmz 8 months ago
this man is a miricle
archeng123 8 months ago
Your Beef is with JESUS ! He set the rules.. Who do you think hes talking to at Mat: 7 :22 ??Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness
He's not talking to the Pharisee..Hes talking to ALL WHO CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN But Don't do what HE Teaches.STEP OUT OF YOUR BOX AND LOOK
acecharlie1 8 months ago
oh I see.Lets shoot the messanger's and the message will go away,Right?
Hey It worked with Jesus?? the apostle Paul Right..You make NO since when it comes to the message of whats right and whats wrong in light of Jesus's teachings.
You show me Where Jesus or any of his TRUE Followers Did Birthday party's??
Mother's Day etc!! YOU CANT BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T! Thats A Fact! WHY??
Because The WORLD (ROMANS<THE PHARISEE and THE PAGAN"S DID!
WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE NO PART OF THE WORLD?Hummm??
acecharlie1 8 months ago
Gods Holy Spirit is His Power and Might..He comands it It does what ever Almighty GOD tells it to do.Everything exist as the results of his force being Active.He give his Son Jesus The Ability to use it and give it at his comand It acts as Jehovah Comand's it. Jehovah Is the only true GOD Why? The same Jesus you claim to follow Says so.John 17 :3,,,Do you Believe him?
acecharlie1 8 months ago
HIS BOOK IS WHAT MADE HIM RICH.AND FOR WHAT? ITS DOING HIM NO GOOD NOW.AS FOR THE TRUTH? what do you know about truth? Our Lord Jesus stated that the two things needed to worship his Father was Spirit and Truth in John Chapter 4
Most people sadly have more spirit for there football team than they Have for Jehovah.If you are so conserned as a christian,Then you need to Question what you beleave in light of the scriptures.You will find Many things you believe that are Myths
acecharlie1 8 months ago
dear friend:) the wind is more powerful then something to ignore,however I tell you that the Witnesses are exalting the Holy Spirit in the same way the Bible exalt the Holy spirit. I talk about principles < I am not JW, I just want peace between people and true love, forgiveness and joy. I dont like when people judge as bad each other, and lose what is real important. You know what is real important?
EVA1first 8 months ago
Jesus is directing the Faithful and Discrete slave.It is his organization.not the Watchtowers or the Gov body.they belong to him and follow him just as Jesus Follows the Father..I thank Jehovah that he is Organized.Can you imagine where the planets would be if he were not organized?? He has the Master Plan and its working well.. Read the Book
acecharlie1 9 months ago
@acecharlie1 - Could you please show me from the Bible where God ever used an "organization?" Fact is, he always used individuals.
GungHo1032 9 months ago
@GungHo1032 YOUR KIDDING ME RIGHT?the nation of Israel
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acecharlie1 8 months ago
@acecharlie1 - Please show me from the Bible, where Jesus said COME TO ME....but through these people here on earth.
GungHo1032 9 months ago
@KarmaFlu WOW thats cool! I hope you succeed. I cant see it though, 1st amendment allows this. A court would throw it out if it ever made it that far. How do you think the LDS has lasted as long as they have? You know the LDS and JW's started roughly at the same time. The JW's are a branch of 2nd Adventist really. They have more in common with 7th day adventist though.
JRJSRJ 9 months ago 2
@JRJSRJ Adventist ? and why did he leave? why Did he spend his fortune trying to get people to look at what they were following? Because The church wasen't paying attention to the true teachings of Christ..Just like the pharisee they would rather hold to the teachings of Man..You Need a Bible Study!!
acecharlie1 8 months ago
@acecharlie1 Am I to understand you are a JW? Do you not know the history of the organization we are discussing? I am not being sarcastic I am just trying to clarify. The JW's came into being in 1869. Their belief system comes from a man named Arius and his heresy from the 3rd century. Hence the term Arian. NOT to be confused with the race. The founder Charles Taze Russell did NOT believe what modern day JW's believe. He was a 2nd Adventist and had a problem reconciling eternal punishment.
JRJSRJ 8 months ago
@aceharlie1 The beliefs of the JW's have changed each time they realize they have hit a theological impasse. Cults have 3 things in common, 1. prophet, 2. extra biblical writings, 3. minimize Jesus. Every cult has that in common. There is not enough space in this little box for a complete rundown of the lies the WTS has told. In short the biblical test of a true prophet is 100% accuracy, the WTS has failed that miserably. No true prophet of God is EVER wrong on any aspect.
JRJSRJ 8 months ago 14
@JRJSRJ what then?? Who out there is the true christian church? Who follows Jesus's teaching to the T ?
The one thing that did catch my attention about the JW's when I was studying their religion is this.When they realize they are Wrong about a teaching,They do make the needed correction. as I see it from an outsider looking in All theother churches do not. its easy to call someone a cult.in the light your using,Then All religions are a cult.
acecharlie1 8 months ago
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qalaquendi2 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ Prophet? No one in the JW organization ever professed to be a prophet of God.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom "And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven. Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a 'prophet' of Jehovah was among them." (The Watchtower, 4-1-72, p. 200)." Recognize that? Its from your magazine. Your own society claims it. Every prediction they have made failed. They have failed the test of a prophet.God says leave them
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ "Watchtower, 4-1-72, p.200" April 1st Watchtower with 200 pages? No such thing. Try again.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom You must be new at this. The original watch tower magazines were issued the at the first of the year with page 1 as their beginning and kept running consecutively throughout the year never resetting. So the page NUMBER is accurate not the number of pages in the magazine. That way they could track what was said at what point in the year more precisely. It kinda backfired on them though. NOT ONE prophetic statement they have ever made has come to pass.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ What constitutes a prophet of God today is not the same as what constituted as a prophet of God during Christ and before. No one has the ability to fortell the future or any powers to speak of like the prophet(s) of old. Christ was the last. Would their be a faithful slave class group living today? Yes. But you would not recognize them by prophecies or powers and resurrection. What constitutes as a prophet today is a body of members baring witness to the prophecies already foretold.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom typical JW now start into word games and dodging. The requirements for a prophet have NOT EVER changed nor will they. WHY? Because they are God's way of showing believers that they are being led astray and being lied to. God does not change his mind nor does his word change. You believe a lie my friend. I used to be a JW. I was raised a JW. My entire family is JW except for me and my mother now. We both finally realized we were lied to. Wake up before its too late.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
Comment removed
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ There is nothing to dodge. JWs have never made a false prophecy. They have MISREAD the prophecy that had alredy been written. But they themselves have never formulated any prophecies of their own. They simply interpret the prophecies already written. There is a diff. As the truth becomes brighter, the more they shed more light on the prophecy. And this is where opposers fail.Because people are realizing that you are unjustly accusing JWs. You should be careful of that in the future.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom you really are naive. You do know they predicted Jesus return in 1914? You deny the deity of Jesus Christ you yourself stand condemned by your own words. If you believe what the organization tells you then you have denied the deity of Christ. Which put you in direct conflict with God, not serving him as you claim. Do you know the history of your organization and belief system? It began with a man named Arius. It is an ancient heresy.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom The Apostle Paul had this to say about Jesus.
Colossians 2:8-10 (ESV)
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
You believe Jesus is an angel/Michael. Hebrews 1 refutes that heresy. God has you beat.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ What you're giving me is interpretation to your new found religious beliefs. The "prediction", as you call it is based on a prophecy already written. I call it interpretating prophecy. And from the events that unfolded that year, it was certainly accurate, Jesus had turned his attention to the earth as King. The point is,your twisted lies and accusations can easily be unraveled. You failed because you were weak. That is why you are where you are,..and 7.5 million are spiritually safe.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom It never fails. The sure fire guarantee of a of a cult. Exclusivity. Christianity makes no distinctions. We are Christians. Christ didnt call Jehovah's Witnesses. "They were first called Christians at Antioch." Baptists dont think Methodists are going to hell, at least not all of them. We dont think any denomination is going to hell based on its denomination. We all have the same fundamental belief. The JW's however say if you are not a JW you are dead.
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom If you were a Christian denomination instead of a cult you would hold the same core beliefs but since you rely on a magazine instead of your bible its impossible for you to have the same beliefs. Its your arrogance that keeps you separated despite the evidence in front of you. Your ancient founder Arius was cast out as a heretic and now you follow a belief system revived only 142 years ago. While the heresy is ancient this form is new. You are too naive to check into it though
JRJSRJ 3 months ago
@JRJSRJ The form that you speak of that is new is the revival of Christianity which was prophecied to occur. And you speak of the "core beliefs" as if nothing else matters, such as Jehovah. If you know your bible then you know how important the truth about Christ's father was to him. But yet, you think its not suppose to be important to his followers? This is the whole purpose of Christianity. To do his father's will. And there is one faith, not many leading to the same place.
oneworldkingdom 3 months ago
@oneworldkingdom show me the verse or verses you use to support this claim and while you are at it why dont you switch to messaging me so we can get rid of this 350 character limit. Its tedious. You will not find anywhere in the scriptures and I know your bible, that say anything about one denomination. There was no such thing. Christian belief boils down to three things. The trinity, the divinity of the Son, and finality of the word of God as disclosed by Jesus. There is no other prophet.
JRJSRJ 2 months ago
@JRJSRJ I can show you from your bible that there is only ONE faith. But before I do,...show me from your bible that Jehovah is a trinitarian God. You will not find it anywhere.
oneworldkingdom 2 months ago
@KarmaFlu no I dont think they would care one bit. JW's are taught that they are the teachers of mankind. They are NEVER allowed to examine their beliefs. If they question their beliefs they are subject to being disfellowshipped. The average individual is not bad just misguided. They are deceived. Jesus is the only one that can stop them. In real Christianity people change churches all the time but we dont stop having dealings or being friends with them. The JW's ostracize people that leave.
JRJSRJ 9 months ago
@KarmaFlu God showed him the truth. That the society is really a demonic lying false prophet. They lead many astray to their condemnation. He wanted no part in it. He could have stayed with them and remained wealthy. Instead he gave it up was persecuted relentlessly by the WTS. The Bible says that if you lead anyone away from the truth its better to have a millstone hung around your neck and be thrown in the ocean! He chose correctly. God has used him to save many who were lied to
JRJSRJ 9 months ago 2
@JRJSRJ What do you mean, "could of stayed wealthy" ? No one gets paid !!
Lad24LFC 9 months ago
@Lad24LFC Do you know who the Franz family were?go here
theforbiddenknowledge com/hardtruth/fred_franz.htm
JRJSRJ 9 months ago
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Click on the FLAG below the video, Select Hateful or Abusive Content -> Promotes Hatred or Violence -> Religion
h8tow8ck 9 months ago
@h8tow8ck Why are you encouraging people to lie? This video is not hateful or abusive or promotes violent. Lies are not of God!
goodgirlkay 3 months ago
Great video of a fine servant of Jehovah.
Wyowanderer777 9 months ago
RIP RAY FRANZ!
Bollow40 10 months ago
Hello, I am not a JW's person, but I want to ask those who agree with Raymond Franz ideas, is Jesus telling us that we shall make disciples? So what others religions based on the Bible are doing this? As I know only the Witnesses. I am really interested in this, In my life I made many mistakes, but Now I want to follow Jesus and Glorify God with all my heart. So how can I do that? I think we should not only criticizes but also give alternatives.
EVA1first 10 months ago
@EVA1first umm you need to do your own research and not ask for other peoples thoughts. you have google and all that. christians are doing the work of God. jw's are not the only ones who do missions around the world. i know people are not jw's who are christians and they are missionaries
mjjcng8958 9 months ago
@EVA1first - If you think the JW's are the only ones making disciples, you really need to get educated about the subject. - Did you know that the JW's don't even believe in the Holy Spirit? And this despite the book of John clearly giving it the qualities of a person...being able to be grieved, comfort, teach, and speak. - This is just one small example of why they do not have the "truth."
GungHo1032 9 months ago
@GungHo1032 ,,Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you''.( Luke 11:9)
This is what i am doing, I m searching for the true. But I know that Jesus teach us to follow him, not with the a hardened heart, but with a heart full of love and forgiveness. Not with a cold heart but with one which give help &listen to those who suffer.
EVA1first 8 months ago
@EVA1first Then answer me this,,Why Did Jesus Teach the apostles and all those others at that time and send them out to preach the good news of Gods Kingdom? Were we not to Listen to them??Did Not Jehovah pore out his Holy Spirit out on them and Did he not use them to bring us the Scriptures so we could search them to find the truth?Did not Jesus say we had to dig as if we were digging for pearls and fine silver? Ask? Knock?Sounds like it involves action on our part!!
acecharlie1 8 months ago
@acecharlie1 Yes I agree with you , we all have to testify God's Kingdom in the name of Jesus Christ. But for this we need to follow Jesus way with a sincere heart. Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them''(John 14:23)
We also need to study the Bible, in order to get closer to God, and for this the JW are always ready to help :)
EVA1first 8 months ago
Most people when the door is opened they poke their head in and see what is required to be a real Christian and then quietly close the door thinking maybe he didn't see me.Then go back to there designer religion that suits their life style
acecharlie1 8 months ago
@acecharlie1 - Yeah when they see that "real" Christians will get cut off and shunned for stuff like having a birthday party, sending a mothers day card, voting, giving or taking blood, supporting the troops, or even visiting another church...the quickly SLAM the door and leave. - Then they seek out true Christianity.
GungHo1032 8 months ago
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Most people when the door is opened they poke their head in and see what is required to be a real Christian and then quietly close the door thinking maybe he didn't see me.Then go back to there designer religion that suits their life style
acecharlie1 8 months ago
@GungHo1032 In this way shall be a disciple, somebody who is interested to save life and offer life in Jesus Christ Glory. There are people who lost the hope in this life and even forgot about Jesus promise, what could you say to them? Did Raymond Franz talked about this? So is not more important to save a life then to criticize without desire to make somebody change his mistake? You said the JW dont believe in the Holy Spirit, but that is not true. Why you think that?
EVA1first 8 months ago
@EVA1first - Are you a Witness? If so, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you to hear you believe in the Holy Ghost. I mean considering the Witnesses teach the the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, is nothing but an "active force," like the wind. - Tell me, who are you trying to fool here? My statements are easily confirmed. Read Franz's book titled In Search of Christian Freedom.
GungHo1032 8 months ago
When you put your faith in God he does care for you.".... This ended well. Anyone who believes has happiness.
Butterflyleia85 1 year ago
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Jehovah's witnesses are cordially invited to "remain in the teaching of Christ" ...
2 John 1:9
... and to learn from Christ when He started to reign in Heavens
see the study at my "website" , and see if what you know is correctly based upon the "teaching of Christ"
Let the peace of Christ be upon those who "dwell in the teaching of Christ" ,
because they have both the Father and the Son.
tidingsbearer 1 year ago
Sir...how uneducated are you?
mrjholland1 1 year ago
and if it is all the same person then the holy spirit never decended upon him because if the holy spirit is him then it would have never left him, it would always have been him because as those say the trinity is one, then why and when would they seperate, come one this is to easy, why yee make this hard on ones self, and if they are all one then john 3 16 is not correct that god gave his only son, so its a lie god gave himself? i really dont know the arguments, and dont wanna waste my time!
kankunkid 1 year ago
@kankunkid If you believe that then you need to throw out about half your publications including the Aid book which he wrote.
cosmo7652002 1 year ago
@kankunkid
The image of the dove and was to full fill scripture of the O.T. John the Baptist was told to look for this. It marked the beginning of Jesus ministry. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same substance and one being but three separate entities. The Father is Not the Son or Holy Spirit, The Son is NOT the Father or Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father or the Son. They are all distinct but made of one. Like a squares relationship to a cube.
JRJSRJ 1 year ago
@JRJSRJ Actually, the "dove" was to let readers know that "Iesous" is a literary gloss for Titus the Destroyer, Destroyer of Jerusalem and the Temple and Roman Emperor. "Titus" means "dove".
IWannabeJew 11 months ago
@JRJSRJ What you have just said makes no comprehendible sense. Are they the same or not? are they sepertate entities or not. I understand that they have the same or similar natures but nature is different from identity.
Lad24LFC 9 months ago
@Lad24LFC my friend that is the mystery of Christianity. Biblical Christianity affirms that God has revealed himself in different ways throughout the ages. Think of a cube. It is a collection of squares. if you look at it head on you just see a square but its still a cube. you give it a quarter turn and you see detail. you see that its actually multiple squares making one object. That is as close to understanding the nature of the Godhead as you are going to get! God is cool like that
JRJSRJ 9 months ago
anyone who is jw and is obssesed with the numbers of followers within the jw,and thinks that is enough for salvation, may god bless thier soul, there will be many mor ethan that, i dont really know what peoople argue when it comes to th holy trinity, all i know is that some people say that they are all one person, well if jesus is god, then he actualy sacraficed himself, and the test he put abraham to and all teh other prophesies from the prophets mean nothing,
kankunkid 1 year ago
it is also written who to any one who so a smuch as changes a single dot of the scrptures it would have been better had he not been born. i believe nothing is in there that is not supposed to be in there, thats why i dont believe in ANY denomination, i prefer to hold to what is cristlike and god sent, and that is all, woe to you who waste time in finding and arguiong of the scrptures as the other teacxhers of the law in the past should you not be helping some one else.
kankunkid 1 year ago
@kankunkid
You are wrong. The bible does NOT say this. It says not one Jot or Tittle will pass away. It says, "if anyone leads any of these little ones astray it would be better if he had not been born." You are trying to combine two verses.
JRJSRJ 1 year ago
the holy spirit and my 13 year old brain told me that i had never read that in the bible, and when a 20 yr old woman kissed me there i knew that was not the place for me, i never reported it, and no real harm was done but all in all, if its not in the bible it wasnt revealed to you, if it was revealed then we will see it in the bible, if someone says that ingreek it means this and that in hebrew it means that do not be confused, be crist like and that is all be last so you will be first, amen
kankunkid 1 year ago
that apostate shave nothing better to offer, the apostates do not offer but god offers, i do not judge you but you should ask for wisdom, i went to christian cathlic mormons jw churches from 5 to 17 yrs of age and i know god sent me to most of them so i can see the truth, i was only 13 whn i knew for sure i had never read anything about an imaginary cloud hovering over me so that i would not see my previous life and that i had already been reincarnated to have a second life as the mormons say
kankunkid 1 year ago
as far as not believeing in hell ire if you dont belive in hell fire, then you dont believe in jesus for his teaching teach of hell, it is clear to see what is written, how can thier be heaven and not a hell, of course thier is such, what of the rich man who asks abraham to let lazarus to give him a drink to quench his thirst, where wa he at when he aske dfor this drink certainly not at the ozark oasis, in some fruitopia, or the melted mountain glaciers, what poor excuse to say that apostates
kankunkid 1 year ago
any one who dose not do my work dose the work of thier father (satan) we all know who says this, the beloved lamb, and if you truly believ he died for your sins pleas do not manupulite or let meere men tell you what interpretations they have of him instead ask the holy spirit to guide wou and ask god for wisdom this way ypu wont say that apostates have nothing better to offer god has everything to offer you but if you chose to be manipulated there is little he can do you have the free will
kankunkid 1 year ago
i am always easily angerd by the jw first of all they do not know teh scriptures, for one, anyone that doneates or recieves blood is not deemed clean in thier eyes, whne jesus was brought a man who helped his animal out of a hole teh teachers of the law sought to trap him, and he said to them which is better to do on the sabath to do good or do evil, so i ask myself why is it so hard for jw to dicern gods truth, most is self explanitory, except revalations the rest is just satans guidance.
and
kankunkid 1 year ago
Here is my beef with apostates,they never offer anything better,just bitterness over their so called poor treatment. Are you really naive enough to believe that there are enough numbers,enough people who care to change the established system of JW's?
I see they are not perfect but I also see that no other religion that comes closer to ancient biblical beliefs about God's name,hellfire and trinity to name a few. Coming full circle,what shall we turn away to,bitterness and rebellion?
TheJWvideos 1 year ago
@TheJWvideos i offer you Christ
He said I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father ecept through me
jesus said the truth will set you free
jesus said i am the ressurection and the life
archeng123 4 months ago
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@TheJWvideos Jesus said there is only onr true God
Jesus said No one can come to the Father except through me
archeng123 4 months ago
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There are only two ways any human can serve God. You can serve Him as a servant, and work for wages or the hope of reward. Or, you can serve Him as His child, in absolute love without fear. Jesus made the later possible.
digital0707neo 1 year ago
Rest in Peace, Ray Franz!
mrroyjones1000 1 year ago
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
All Christians, Jews and Muslims, worship a bronze-age, tribal-deity of war who according to their own "holy" books has killed countless men, women, and children. They then raise this repugnant monster to the status of the "Most High" and 'loving". This is pure insanity! and that billions do it, doesn't make it any less so.
Little wonder the world is in such a mess when so many worship a god far less loving that they probably are. It poisons the soul.
JamesThomas 1 year ago
Ray Franz is a really true christian! More christian and better christian than the JW!!!
MegaAden1 1 year ago
@MegaAden1 Are Christian good people because or inspite of their beliefs?
RadarKat73080 1 year ago
this man has the real truth and found out who does not have the truth at all, but all the people have been brainwashed that think that only they have the truth and all other people are evil but them, I guess the witnesses fall under the description of a cult as well as other groups
chucalux99 1 year ago
13 People dislike this video? I feel very sad for you JW who chose to dislike this video, this man has done so much in his life and helped people leave a destrctive cult, like the one you attend, We must thank God for giveing us such an honest person who helped so many people, and please help this 13 blind souls. JW's take your bibles and read (Matthew 7:15 ). It's Time to wake up, and give your life to who it belongs YOU not a organisation. Thanks for uploading the video, and rest in peace Ray.
cubanboy740 1 year ago
He was passed away on 2nd June 2010. R. I. P. Ray Franz!
MegaAden1 1 year ago
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Ray Franz was a fraud. He was never anointed. He never felt what the real anointed felt thats why he claims Governing Body was doing mens work. How the heck did he become GB anyways? He had crisis of identity NOT crisis of conscience
basenock 1 year ago
Ray Franz was a fraud, he was never anointed. Thats why he claimed Governing Body was doing men's work because he never felt what the anointed brothers felt. How the heck did he become GB anyways?? He had Crisis of Identity NOT crisis of conscience.
basenock 1 year ago
@basenock You have Crisis with your brain! Ray is a hero! He speaks the Truth!When you read his books,you see: THAT`S THE TRUTH in the WTC ! And I see that in 30 years as aJW!!!
MegaAden1 1 year ago
@basenock ive known close to 7-10 annointed..of those, about 3 of them are still serving a JW..Ask every annointed how they know they are annointed and you will get this look like I JUST KNOW - which honestly - is a BS answer..they dont know..my brothers motherinlaw is annointed..but yet the lady will hump me if Igave her a chance and I have caught her drunk..so pleas spare me the BS "he never felt what the anointed felt"..
rhdtv2002 1 year ago
@basenock You just contradicted yourself? "how the heck did he become GB anyways"?? Isn't that the GB itself who appointed him, no?! so, what you are saying is that they made a mistake? Is that what you are saying? So, they are "infallible" or not? What are you saying??? And what does anointment have anything to do with reason? You are way too emotional for this discussion my friend. Way too emotional.
hauntedvaginas 1 year ago
@basenock If what you say are true, then why didn't the "anointed" members of the Governing Body know that he wasn't anointed? Why didn't God give them a sign? And if he could get on the Governing Body and not be "anointed", then how do you know that there are any really "anointed" members on the Governing Body at all?
goodgirlkay 3 months ago
Rest in peace, lovely man.
tedduncumbe 1 year ago 25
There is no point in criticizing the JW, the world she's no better to offer.
loryvox 1 year ago
I'm so sorry to hear about Brother Franzs' passing ... I would have wanted to meet and speak with him in person ... "You will be with me in Paradise" - Luke 23:43.
swampwatch 1 year ago
@swampwatch what I don't seem to understand about you people is the fact that you are constantly told not to be on such sites as these and yet you still continue to do so same as you are not allowed to listen to ozzy yet you probably do that too. My point is this why even care so much about an apostate like Raymond who has admitted to the sinister workings in the bethel? I thought you had to cast out all apostates. Read your bible again without the JW's aids. Come to your own conclusions.
angiec0307 1 year ago
@angiec0307The bible is irrelevant for modern people.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon yeah I truly believe that too however, giving that I was brought up in this religion as a kid and finding my own way out of it and expressing my own opinions and beliefs system to myself I find it dis-heartening that so many people are still blind sided by this one religion/cult whatever you wish to call it. Their are many idiots in that religion same as there is in a lot of them. Hence the reason why the suggestion to swampwatch go do some soul searching and come to own conclusion.
angiec0307 1 year ago
Respond to this video...Exactly! Isn't that called hypocrisy or has the Watchtower found some sort of reason why you should be on this site talking to US!
hauntedvaginas 1 year ago
One thing many fail to recognize is that the core message of the dogma is inherently putrid and rotten, not just the organizations based on it.
Time2Keeper1 1 year ago
if jehovah witnesses preach the not true,and maybe all their belief is a lie.
see on the begins their assocation, with started with russel and ending in today
TOMEK1878 1 year ago
so does he still believe in his god jehovah???or what now???
georgeeboy2222 1 year ago
It's funny that JW's when you mention Raymond Franz, they will not hear anything you have to say, because in their eyes, the Watchtower has labeled him an apostate.
leovraiel 1 year ago
I've finished reading Crisis book and I must say the majority of that book was well done. It's always odd how one is very critical of an organisation they once so actively supported and "apostates" are reasonably not the bets people to gain an understanding of a religious oranisation as they often had biases but Mr. Franz addressed things with a measure of reason unseen in many criticisms. Sad to hear of the man's passing.
HanDeckardJones 1 year ago
archeng123 why is that important?
butterflysnf1969 1 year ago
RAYMOND VICTOR FRANZ
THANK YOU FOR YOUR LOYALTY TO GOD!
THEBEREANZ 1 year ago
@THEBEREANZ
Well said!
hauntedvaginas 1 year ago
@hauntedvaginas
and i'll say it again...
RAYMOND VICTOR FRANZ
THANK YOU FOR YOUR LOYALTY TO GOD!!!
THEBEREANZ 1 year ago
Raymond warned us in "C of C": Beware of “organization.” It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? Life is uncertain and when a man dies what he knows dies along with him—unless he passes it on while still in life. You passed it on and opened our eyes. YOU WILL BE MISSED BY THOUSANDS.
zeroleus 1 year ago
One thing i dont understand and maybe some one can help me with this. Why is it when someone leaves the organization or gets disfellowshiped they call Jehovah God just God? They no longer say his name Jehovah. Why is that?
Journeyride 1 year ago
@Journeyride Good question. I would say that when a person disassociates themseleves from JW's they stop using the name Jehovah to refer to God, and just say God to give it a worldy understanding etc.
LoliLoli83 1 year ago
@Journeyride
I distanced myself from the JWs years ago.
Most don't, correct. But Jesus didn't! There is not ONE instance in scripture where Jesus used God's proper name. Instead he referred to him as "Father". It could also be that they [including myself] have become aware of the JW mistranslation of John 1:1.
"we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed." Titus 2:13.
Having left we accept the divinity of Christ.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian Hello Of course Jesus used God's proper name. When he was baptized he went straight to the temple and read Isa 61 where it says: "The spirit of Jehovah anointed me." Jesus said that he fullfilled the prophets right down to the very letter. If he didn't use God's proper name right to the very letter when quoting Isaiah's prophecy then he lied!!!
wizzy812 1 year ago
@wizzy812
Of course he didn't lie if he quoted from a copy of Isaiah in Greek that did not contain the tetragrammaton. We do not know if he used the tetragrammaton or not. We have to go by the best ancient source texts extant, and they are in Koine-Greek, and in not one of them does the tetragrammaton appear.
You cannot translate into the Christian Greek scriptures what is NOT in source!!
Doing THAT is a lie and a tampering with the text.
No matter what you say, these are the facts.
tommotian 1 year ago
@wizzy812
wizzy, don't misunderstand me. By no means am against using the proper name of God. All I'm saying is that it is more important that we accept the facts for what they are, whether we like them or not.
It can never be a question of my truth, or your truth, or that of the JWs, but of truth AS IS whether we [including myself] like being confronted by it or not.
So we have to go by what we have in the best Greek source texts.
We go by what we have, not by what we WANT to be there.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian I was wondering if you dispute the bible scholars that say that in the original textus receptus that Isaiah used the tetragrammoton. I don't care if the Septuigent that the Lord most likely quoted from deleted the divine name, the fact remains that if Isaiah originally wrote the divine name then Jesus must have spoke it right to the very letter or else who would not have fullfilled the law and the prophets right to the very letter.
wizzy812 1 year ago
@wizzy812
Principles for translation are rock-hard on this: You have no right to insert into the translated text what is not in source. In this case, the tetrgrammaton is NOT in source translated from. You have NO RIGHT to tramper with the text translated FROM. What you say about the prophets is THEOLOGY, not translation.
A translator MUST be as faithful to the contents itself he's translating from as is possible.
You can't do it any other way, it's the Bible.
Peace!
tommotian 1 year ago
@wizzy812
I don't dispute that Isaiah used the tetragrammaton.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian If Isa used the tetragrammaton then there is no question in my mind that Jesus spoke such. That being the case it is my opinion that then I have no problem with inserting the divine name in a translation. It would be obvious that the manuscripts that the Vaticon 1209 and the Siniatica came from violated the "Prinicples for translation." Simply put the scriptures do say that Jesus spoke the divine name. JMHO
wizzy812 1 year ago
@wizzy812 [1]
Sorry, I cannot yield from principles of translation.
I will aways maintain that you cannot translate FROM source what is NOT there - i.e. the tetragrammaton - into the text translated TO [= NT].
For if you do, you tamper with source. There is no getting away with it.
Apart from that I agree with you.
Don't confuse translation with theology! It is never a question of what you or I think ought to be in the translated TO text, but instead of what is actually there IN SOURCE.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian No you don't offend me. Maybe I misunderstood an earlier posting of yours. I thought you were saying there is no evidence in the scriptures that the Lord spoke the divine name. since you admit that Isa wrote the divine name then would you agree that those who that translated the Septuigent added Adonai in violation of Proverbs 30:6? I personally don't consider it to be adding to God's word when you restore it to it;s original condition. JMHO- Todd
wizzy812 1 year ago
@wizzy812 [2]
And this is a Godly principle too:
"Add nothing to his words, that he may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar." Prov 30:6, NWT.
Add NOTHING to his word, not even the tetragrammaton!! in the text translated to.
tommotian 1 year ago
@wizzy812 [3]
I hope I don't offend you. I'm not against the Name. That is not it. BR, Tom.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian Tom what do you think of this? I think the meaning of the divine name is: Powerful Creative Light. Each hebrew syllable has a definition. Yad means power. Hey means Light. Vav means Creative (possibly healing). So wouldn't Yadhevavhe Powerful creative light? Or perhaps powerful healing light? What do you think?
Todd
wizzy812 1 year ago
@tommotian Do you by chance know whether or not the Masoretic manuscripts are writtne in Koine Greek?
wizzy812 1 year ago
@wizzy812
It was written in Hebrew. We would call it the Hebrew scriptures. Others call it the Old Testament [OT] when translated into, say, English. Or Swedish, the language of my country.
The Septuagint, however, is written in Greek.
tommotian 1 year ago
@Journeyride
Oh lord! Sigh...
hauntedvaginas 1 year ago
did he believe in hell fire and the trinity
archeng123 1 year ago
surely one of the greatest and admired and loved modern day APOSTATES
archeng123 1 year ago
And I thought ExGilliadMissionary was hot shit. Give me more Ray Give me MORE!!!!! Knowledge Knowledge Knowledge of their power.
BakedSuperNick 1 year ago
RIP Raymond Franz and second to all JWs who are reading in here there is only one mediator between you and God and that's Jesus Christ who made you judge of this man or even of any of your brothers and sisters? the focus of the bible is Salvation through Jesus Christ not the governing body read your bible and draw your own conclusion and ask God to send you holy spirit to understand it.
butterflysnf1969 1 year ago
@butterflysnf1969 what did ray believe in the end trinity and hell
archeng123 1 year ago
In memory of Ray Franz
PrintedTruth 1 year ago
RIP Ray....a very kind man has died today.
700latin 1 year ago
Comment removed
700latin 1 year ago
RAYMOND VICTOR FRANZ
Thank you for your loyalty to God!
THEBEREANZ 1 year ago