DEBATE William Lane Craig vs Christopher Hitchens Does God Exist 02

[xSpencerWxRFCx]

When will this man stop speaking false facts.

[kant12]

Funnier and funnier as the video goes on.

[504235]

Those of you that question William Lane Craig's intelligence and philosophical "chops" puzzle me. If Dr. Craig was some idiot with no real argument why is Christopher Hitchens debating him? Only two option exist. One he is an egotistical maniac who only cares about making himself look the genius by tearing others down. Two he believes he will has a worthy adversary in Dr. Craig. I am inclined to believe the latter.

[thrallsson]

@504235 I'm inclined to believe the first option. He his basically saying that the universe is complex and therefore theists have better reasons for saying there is a god than athesists saying there is none. That is a contradiction which has been pointed out to him several times, still... he just ignores it at continues like nothing happened.

[lordrazr]

@504235 b/c hitches is a fame whore and loves hearing his own voice.

[chaosrokkfreak]

Insults and false accusations do not discredit an awesome philosopher! His case is legitimate, and his arguments sound!

[lordrazr]

@chaosrokkfreak WLC the master of assertion!! If the universe was different, it would be different. We only have one universe as a sample, therefore you cannot assume these constants are even capable of being different.

[teahouse100]

An open heart, an open mind - this is the only argument we truly need.

Although Craig is doing a fine job, the life of Jesus Christ will be far more compelling than any deduction. All one needs to do is look at Wall Street to witness the erosion of moral foundations. If you are going propagate that we are "mere animals" then be prepared to permit the flourishing of "survivalism".

What is morality? The answer is personified in the actions and person of Jesus Christ. Why complicate this :|

[jerico641]

"Moral values" apparently AREN'T "binding" on everybody whether we agree with them or not. They vary from civilization to civilization, and people exist in all societies who ignore widely held moral values. Why aren't they "bound" to them regardless of their desires?

[nhall022]

We can't rap our minds around the idea that our universe has no inherent and obvious cause, therefore Christianity is true.

[darkaudiovideo]

Ha that argument was like 'tonight I had beans for dinner, therefore it follows logically that god exists'

[mellymel51029]

GOD IS GREAT :)

[jerico641]

@mellymel51029

GOD IS GREATLY EXAGGERATED... 

[mellymel51029]

@jerico641 GOD IS GREAT :)...William Lane Craig has alot of Haters lol

[jerico641]

@mellymel51029

I don't doubt that...

[mytownsanbon]

Craig's Kalam cosmological argument = scientists discovered bigbang therefore it's god.

[gjsterp]

@Buceroo21 I could see you making this comment at the end of the video, but this is only part 02.

I doubt you listened to the whole thing. You might try and then comment at the end.

[parhhesia]

A fine-tuned cosmos that allows human life to arise, but also dishes out rape, torture, congenital birth defects, epidemic disease and cataclysms?

Typically, theists ascribe the credit for what they like to God's plan, and write off everything unwholesome as "He's just testing us" or "human free will is to blame."

Time to decide - does god lack omnipotence, benevolence, omniscience, or simply existence? It has to be one or more of those. At any rate, we're left with no good reason to worship Him

[parhhesia]

"Mind" is an illusion caused caused by the operation of a brain. Until someone proves that a mind can operate without a brain, the idea that minds can be transcendent objects located outside of space and time is ludicrous. Wittgenstein covered this years ago.

[Gavinificationness]

The universe is not fine tuned for life never mind intelligent life.

The universe will be inhospitable for most of its existence and even in the brief amount of time that it is you cant live in most of it. And the part you can live on still has many ways that it can kill you with natural disasters and the like.

The fine tuning argument annoys me.

[TheFaithEater]

I hate that theists seem to always view 'low probability' as equivalent to 'impossible'.

[123456chagrty06]

@DJMRayOfficial You couldn't be more wrong. Since there was no time, there were no "chances for something to happen." You have to get your head around the concept that there was NOTHING before the universe began to exist.

[keagar1]

ok, let me see If I have this straight. Its impossible for the universe to be eternal or pop out of nowhere but "God" is eternal and/or can pop out of nowhere. Am I the only one that's confused?

[AtheronX]

im not gonna be like hitchens and hide behind big words so ill break a simple arguement down.

theists consider themselves intelectuals

einstein > all of you, and he recognized the existence of a 'god'

of course your going to throw some stupid arguement at this because your all ignorant

god exists. lol@u stop being nubs

[TheAcad3mic]

It doesn't matter what the odds against are of this universe happening into existence, because as Dawkins points out, it only had to happen once, and it had more time then we can imagine to happen, odds become irrelevant.

[123456chagrty06]

@TheAcad3mic Since there was no time before the universe began to exist, there wasn't "more time than we can imagine" for it to happen.

[TheAcad3mic]

@123456chagrty06 There was nothing to measure time against in THIS dimension... Call whatever the Event came from 'God' if it pleases you and helps you understand it, but there is no design in life, and there certainly isn't a personal god, and to extrapolate that there MUST be one, from the existence of an observable universe, is preposterous.

[AManOfHope]

WTF!! This shitty tool said this argument would have nothing to do with bible! What piece of ignorant shit.

[Chr1551]

Why does Craig even bring up the moral argument? It doesn't do anything to actually prove a god... playing on the heart strings of the audience I assume.

[jerico641]

@Chr1551

Yep you got it; it's one of his basic tactics.

[jamaicanification]

@meatlikepr0duct just like atheists claiming its impossible that there is a god?

[mattstagg1973]

Notice the use of "vanishingly small" but no actual numbers. Making it up, the colossal arse.

[mattstagg1973]

When he dies he will go to nothing and he will have wasted his life. How sad. Threaten me with hell would you? I threaten you with an utterly wasted life.

[mattstagg1973]

When he dies he will go to nothing and he will have wasted his life. How sad.

[derth4]

@meatlikepr0duct

... actually no I don't. In fact I think I think non-belivers think very little about anything at all.

[derth4]

@meatlikepr0duct

As opposed to multiple universes that are so impossibly calculable and so my warping that its insane to view them as real. This is the greatest joke that athiest try to push.

"look how stupid the idea of god is? How completely irational. Now lets all talk about imaginary universes we all theorized this morning after our daily hit of acid".

[derth4]

@derth4 *mind warping*

[savaloy666999]

@eevil123 Thanks, Mate. I'll check it out.

[nosajj12345]

It is believed that humans abandoned their hunter gatherer ways and established the first permanent settlements about 8K yrs ago. This would mean people were living in close knit communities thousand of yrs before Christianity was ever conceived. The fact that we exist today suggests these neolithic communities must have established moral codes and standards and did so without the aid of the Christian belief system or the bible. In other words.....you're fool of shit Dr Craig!!!!

[Bera1989]

There is a relationship between chaos and order... such thing explains how nature developed and was "caused." Something beyond space and time? This is called higher dimensions... there is no such thing as supernatural... super naturalism is a sick feeling that some individuals in our species share collectively.

[hugoegbert79]

Does the Bible tell us rape is wrong Dr Craig? No? In fact you can argue that it justifies it. And how many people have been raped in the name of religion?

His arguments are self-defeating.

[levonet33]

The universe is screaming GOD made me.

[savaloy666999]

@levonet33 Or maybe its just your ego screaming "I AM important!"

[thinkingsincerely]

Dawkins arguments as well as Hitchens arguments are very emotional. If you don't think their diatribes aren't filled with emotionally loaded language, you haven't read them.

[jordaniac89]

Every time I watch Craig, his right hand drives me crazy.

[savaloy666999]

"..the cause [of the universe] must be beyond space and time,therefore it cannot be physical or material....Therefore it follows that the cause of the universe is a transcendent, intelligent mind."

HUH?!?

Mind is an emergent property of specifically organized matter, you moron. How has this man lived to adulthood without fatally injuring himself on a sharp edge???

[savaloy666999]

Why do these God apologists insist on waffling on about cosmology??? They havent the first notion of the subject. The Hitch isnt a cosmologist, hes not here to provide Astrophysics-101 to these snake-oil peddlers. I would love to see this Craig bozo try this nonsense on any hardworking physicist.

[savaloy666999]

This Craig is a waffling idiot! For an apparently educated man, his ignorance is terrifying! We see the universe as it is, (finely tuned), because if it were not so, we wouldnt be here to see it!! Theres every reason to believe the cosmos evolves just as life evolves - the big bangs that were not conducive to sentiant life came and went UNWITNESSED! In the same way that life that was not conducive to surival became extinct. Our universe is but one perturbation of many in the cosmic ALL.

[ClamCrunchy]

Really depends on whether or not the universe has zero net energy or not.

[AdamBond7]

brian dunning would have a field day with the logical fallacies.

[kisskisskiss121212]

Remember people. If you don't understand the answer then you should insert God! I hate this idiot.

[pearana]

4:42

her yawn tells all. haha!

[HarrynJessie]

why the distinction between numbers and minds? isn't "the mind" just an abstract concept too?

[InitiumNovum]

It's amazing that this man makes his arguments on what is "probable" rather than what has actually observable. It's also improbable to win the lottery, but someone does every week.

He then has no problem believing in the absurd improbabilities of the bible.

[InitiumNovum]

It was helpful of Craig to describe what something that is beyond space and time actually is. Scientists have been curious about this for decades and will no doubt be relieved that Craig has cracked this one purely by leaping from one assertion to the next without the need for any real science or even viable logic.

[DandAinTac]

Notice how many times Craig says "must be", and take careful note of what he is asserting at each step, without any evidence, one leap after another--"must be" this and that--building up a house of cards out of thin air and wishful thinking, the whole thing collapsing without even so much as a puff of air. All it takes is to realize that what he is proposing can be more easily destroyed by the same objections he uses to declare the universe improbable--except we can at least detect the universe.

[SirArghPirate]

@meatlikepr0duct Also they tend to fall back on arguments that have been rebutted countless times before. Like for instance not addressing the anthropic principle. Or acknowledging that if the cosmological constants were a little different, life as we see it on earth would evolve differently. It's almost like saying that without electricity we would be watching television in the dark.

Somehow I think they really don't 'want' to understand, as long as it pays their bills :)

[SirArghPirate]

I'm so tired of this nonsensical arguments that the 'universe can't be infinite because of an infinite amount of time events etc'. There is no such thing as time being a linearly progressive dimension, meaning that event's (energy) are dependent of time to happen, it's more like the other way around. Time (the perception of it, that is) is dependent of energy. Energy may have existed forever, in some forms or spatial dimensions before the big bang.

[nublord365]

Does Craig not see the disconnect between the hypothetical non sequitor intelligent mind creating the universe and his personal god from the bible? The two have literally nothing to do with each other. The possibility of a deistic cause for quantum reactions at the beginning of time as we know it suggests nothing about miracles, afterlifes, morality or anything of the sort.

[creativebollocks]

same old crap...you cant prove a negative. It's up to the believers to come up with some proof since they are making the big claims.

[Darkaero199]

He shouldn't be labeled a philosopher at all. His train of thought is leading to one idea, he literally can't think outside of the box. His argument that there was "nothing" before the big bang is obviously flawed, as are his ideas about other universes, the fine tune argument is so boring, who says this universe is fine tuned? And who says it's fined tuned for one species on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy etc.... hes a rambling moron.

[205whiteboy]

@Darkaero199 You sir, are the rambling moron. The universe is fine tuned indeed. Modern science agrees with this....no one says that means there is only life on earth. Sorry if it bores you but that doesn't change the perception of the universe by modern science. Moreover, you seem to be the one who cannot think outside the box...not Craig. If you had listened to this video with an open mind Craig's logic is very clear. Just wanted to share that. =]

[ArmanAeon]

@Darkaero199 your own science does. lolllllll

[fodao42]

Morals are objective? Dude needs to study more anthropology and less of his own nonsense - claiming the universality of western morals is pretty ethnocentric.  Or maybe he can turn on the news and see how, using his own example, some cultures in the middle east think rape is okay. Or look at our own history to see how child abuse evolved from when we used to send kids down mine shafts to work for twenty cents a day.

[hagenttzd]

Craigs argument is not so much cosmological as it is emotional. appeal to emotion=logical fallacy. As a "philosopher" he should know better.

[ArmanAeon]

@hagenttzd emotions are there for a reason.