Good video. Here is some food for thought. Everyone keeps talking about the issues with the M16 design. While they were true for a period of ~6 months in 1965/1966 due to powder substitution and McNamara arrogance. While in the Marines I had to read every freaking safety/maintenance report involving small arms across the DoD and never had an M16 report cross my path not 100% user. Example a soldier forgot to put the firing pin retaining pin in.
I like the DI guns but eventualy the piston will be modified and be a better choice but heat is going to be a big problem because nothings worse than getting branded when your wanting to have fun
31:00 I like DI for simplicity and replaceability. The gas tube is easy to find replacements of and there is nothing proprietary about it. For semi-auto, it is very good and my bushmaster has only ever failed me because of mags, not the gas system. 33:00, man that is beat up and well used.
19:43 Good point. When going with a floated forearm, I decided to limit even the rails themselves with a YHM smooth forearm that has modular rail attachments. If I were to build another, I would go with the troy modular forearm.
The reason the gas block gets so much hotter on a piston gun is it takes more gas and its closer to the front of the gun and the burning powder di guns are similar temp up there too
If you're shooting for civillian or law enforcement reasons then a piston gun is really an unneccesary expense. You don't have to shoot magazine after magazine on full auto until the lubricant is burned off the BCG & the need for a surpressor isn't as high. Simply put since a DI is acceptable as a military weapon for 40yrs+ it will serve your purposes in the nonmilitary world.
Both piston and DI systems have their own problems, but arguments over piston designs are (I feel) extremely exaggerated because of the general public's inertia to changing systems. The FNC, SKS, Tavor and many other rifles the world utilize short-stroke pistons (albeit being positioned differently). Carrier tilt is a manufacturing issue, if the tolerances arent high enough then suffice to say tilt will become evident, and heat is easily solved by different material heatsinks (i.e ceramic).
Thanks for the info. Sounds like, out of the box (factory built), either system is fine depending on your style. But, customizing from one system to another is a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing.
@nutnfancy, Good vid, might have been a bit better organized. Would have liked a barebones weight comparison (lower without grip/stock, upper without hand guard/accessories), load out is a very personal endeavor. Also would have liked a weight balance comparison. A simple CG test can be done with a two point sling... Thanks for the information.
Cause to keep that running you need it to be well lubriicated to run! As log as your not a moron and give your gun some tlc every once in a while you'll be completely fine.
@Friedstuffsable All you did was copy and paste on differen channels right? Cause you wrote the same damn thing on another channel or you copied it off of some body! Also why did the Ak 74 revert to a smaller round if the Ak is the end all be all? Seems they moved towards the western way of thinkin huh? If D.I is broke then so your cara engine
@Friedstuffsable so you think the AK was the first long stroke gas piston? And if there ia something wrong with the 5.56 then why did the russians (creators of the AK) switch the the 5.45×39 with the AK74?
It is funny how the AR crowd loves to bash the AK. But the AR consumer world is moving towards piston guns in 30ish caliber designer rounds. The 6.8. 300 aac blackout, etc. All which have similar bullet weights, moving at Similar velocities to the 7.62x39mm. Even if it is short stroke piston & oppose to long stroke. Looks like the 'high tech' Ar is going back to it's competitors roots. There must be something wrong with the 5.56 out of a short barrel, & there must be something wrong with D.I. <
i dont know why but just somethin about delta rings i just dont like i dont know if affects anything compared to a monolithic rail but just i dont like it
In my professional opinion, I don't like how piston guns rise the rail a quarter or half a inch higher than common DI AR-15 rails. That causes major inconsistencies for shooters running red dot optics that want to switch their optics to DI gun to piston gun. That's my only concern other than piston guns run pretty great.
@TexasDistortion Agreed! This is only a debate because DI is being made redundant with Piston/Push Rod. If Piston/PushRod were predominate DI would have no chance of surviving this debate.
I plan on getting a plum crazy complete lower for around $130. I then intend to order the Adams arms complete carbine length gas piston upper for $599. In total it will be around $730 bucks pluss I still need sights. Anyone got some inputs?
I meant destroying your upper rather. To elaborate alittle more on my comment too, I was referring to the piston gun not having bullet pressure on the bc, unlike di.
From what I gathered also with a piston gun you will never have to worry about grenading your bcg (destroying your lower) if you use reloaded ammo and one of those times the brass fatigues under pressure.
@jamalski70 that is the problem with M16 they must be routinely cleaned unlike the piston impingement rifles they do not need routine cleaning. In battles you do not have the time for regular cleaning to make the M16 sure to function. If you are using it only for shooting it will work reliably since you have the time for regular cleaning
I would like Piston guns more if the piston was a little more trim and not so bulky looking IMO. I would like to see a small piston with a FRONT SIGHT on it. Not just a Pic Rail. I'm gonna put a sight on it anyways, so just put a folding sight on it. Just me.
a big variable is the length of the gas system, it is been pretty substantiated that a rifle length gas system is just as a reliable as a piston system, short barreled systems are where more of the criticism is valid.
Sure it gets dirty but does it effect the reliability? Sweet jesus, I shot only 100 rounds through a AK with silver bear 5.45 and the piston is carboned up something fierce. The man point is does it increase the chance of jamming the weapon. AK, no. AR with piston, ?
@kneedeepinzombieshit Nutnfancy isn't a douche like you see in many Forums. I was lambasted on a forum for asking a noob question, even though I let them know I was new. People are dicks. Nutn is NOT. :)
pistons might be the latest and greatest, but DI systems aren't going anywhere. I have bought and will continue to buy DI systems. I have a noveske, daniel defense, and I am considering a LaRue for my next AR-15.
I bought a Stag Arms model 8 and I love it. I mostly shoot .22LR thru it since .223/5.56 is expensive. I have to say it shoots great and it's easy to clean. Since I'm an AR newbie I wanted something that didn't seem so daunting to take apart and clean. I have to say that these guns are easy to disassemble and clean and I think no matter what AR you buy you can't go wrong. Thanks nutnfancy for such great vids!
I just bought a DD ar and a dpms, Ive had rock river and bushmaster. As far as quility and metal type the DD is better but for the most part people are never going to push an ar that far. So they put out the extra cash for a top end rifle thats never going to really get used for whats its meant to do. As far as DI and piston, they are both good if clean... if people dont like to clean they need a good ak.
Author/Journalist C.J. Chivers wrote an article about the reliability of the M4 in Afghanistan. He observed over 100 marines in 10-12 firefights & observed only one ftf. That ftf happend when a marine fell into a sewage pit but the marine had his rifle shooting again after 2 seconds. I don't readily accept info or reports from unnamed sources, especially on the internet. If you restrict your info to identifiable sources only you'll see a big difference in the evaluation of the DI systems AR/M4.
The piston system is fine but for the most part it is not necessary for the civillian usage. After over 17yrs of using DI I have never been in a situation where I desperately needed a piston system. Would I buy a piston driven rifle? Maybe, maybe not. I would avoid converting a DI rifle to a piston rifle. I find DI is greatly underrated for the most part; properly lubed& the dustcover up & it's going to be quite reliable. Nutnfancy is spot on concerning DI vs piston.
@ Nutnfancy. You probably have more piston gun experience than you know. If you have ever shoots AKs, SKS, M14, M1A, FAL, M1 Garand...they all piston drive.
Piston and DI are both fine for civilian application, we don't dive underwater then fire the gun full auto. see this HK416 over the beach test on you tube. It explain some advantage of Piston design
here's my bottom line imo, take care of your weapon and it will take care of you. both systems can be very effectively used and at the end of the day your preference it what matters. if you know and love di, dont change. if your new, do the research and decide. My police explorer mentor was in the Marine Corps and served four tours in the gulf and iraq/kuwait. If you gave him the choice of a 500 di rock river m4 or a tactical scar, hed pick the m4 all day. its just what he knows and trusts
Great meat and potatoes video. I have been sitting on the fence about an AR platform. I think as a standard sheepdog, either will suffice. Once again thank you for your time and enthusiasm.
Thank god you made this vid. First time buyer and I was looking all over the place for a long video with ansering questions that were running all over my brain. Thanks :-)
I run my DI with a FailZero bolt carrier. Yeah, the FailZero bolt carrier is expensive ($250.00), I have run it dry in harsh conditions. I got dirt, mulch, carbon and laquer on it, and its still maintained perfect function even after 300 rounds. Even with the red laquer shavings (brown bear ammo) on the bolt face, worked like a champ.
@coolmike1989 I bet their nice but best probably not. and probably cost an arm a leg and your first born child. I like my DPMS granted I'm new to AR's. what have you done to your Sig in the line of custom work ??
what i mean is, is that i dont think the sr556 is a solid rep for a piston design. the lwrc or adams arms elite is way better for the carbon fouling. they are self cleaning. no carbon and ive been shooting the lwrc for years. just saying.
i have two piston ar's. one is an adams arms elite, the other is a lwrc. ive had the lwrc the longest 4-5 years. not once have i cleaned the gas piston. its fine. but both look dirty on the exterior, but they still keep going. i feel they are a superior design to the di. but i feel the complaints about civilian used di's isn't a real issue.
im willing to trade off a couple of ounces up front to have something that (1) doesnt suffocate me while i'm shooting it from all the carbon spit out of the chamber (2) have rounds cook off in the chamber and (3) not having to clean it NEARLY as often. oh and being able to use a suppressor without choking to death. to each his own, DI or gas piston are both better than no AR at all :)
i just want to comment on your take on which position is better to shoot from, forward hand near the mag well or forward hand further up. Yes, forward hand further up is more accurate, and yes, forward hand closer is faster. So my answer is both. It depends on target distance. If the target is closer you have to react faster and it makes sense to have the hand closer, but if the target is further away, you have more time before he'll be able to get on target, so you want your shot to count
Good points on the dirt and the heat being transferred to the front of the piston gun. There's a video on YT called "AR-15 gas piston conversion torture testing" that's probably a good illustration of this--starts out with the guy firing full auto with no gloves and then putting a glove on his left hand part way thru...
@Composer1777 Good info on the Promags, I'd heard most of the aftermarket mags for the Mini are pretty unreliable junk. I'll definitely give you the ballistic advantage of the 6.8, although for cheap blasting, the 7.62x39 is hard to beat; on the other hand, quality ammo for the AK gets right back up there. I believe that we are pretty much eye to eye on this issue, and I will agree that the Mini-14/30's are pretty close. I'd still choose the AK-47 for its military history and track record.
@Composer1777 If you take the cost of the factory Mini-14 magazines into consideration, vs the cost of some good mil-spec AR mags, I'd say it"s pretty even. Although my personal preference is for a well-made quality AK-47 in 7.62x39. Always piston driven, always reliable, mags are dirt cheap and if you have $650 to spend, you can get a darn good one.
Wow, he stated CMMG has a gas piston upper for "around $300" at the time of this video. I just checked Midway and there up to $680 now! Almost exactly 2 years later. That's just not right!
Whats the rifle you are shooting at the front of the video, without the forward assist? I also cant see a charging handle on the back, which is a serious plus for me since I cannot stand those cocking handles.
One thing I'm thinking is down the road maintenance. I would imagine that when it comes to replacing the piston vs. replacing the bolt carrier group, the piston parts would be much cheaper. But that's just me guessing...
dident care ware i posted this but i did want to say it. i bought my first ar15 because of your influence. i referred to you vids for help while shopping. thanks for the vids
I've used DI for about 20yrs & I've never seen the need to have a piston system. I suppose there is somebody who does need a piston system for what he needs to do with the rifle. Nutn is 100% correct on DI being acceptable for LEO or range/hunting/self-defense.
i have a newbie question for @nutnfancy or anyone experienced, why are brand new rifles fresh out of the box generally inaccurate? and what do you have to do to dial them in correctly?
is it simply a matter of putting numerous rounds through it to break it the weapon? thanks
I think it's interesting how the DI crowd is always hollering about the extra weight with the piston system, when these same guys will put on an aluminum 4 rail handguard and then hang all kinds of "tacticool" crap on the front end of their rifle and brag about how great it is. I own both DI and piston guns and cannot tell the difference in weight on the piston vs the DI without actually weighing them. They both have pluses and minuses....for the majority of civilians either will serve well.
@Comanchero762 I totally agree PSA and BCM grab a stripped stag lower buy a lower parts kit and then either build and upper or buy one built. I building my AR for $725 I saved well over $500.
My direct experience is that DI guns are great if you are able to go home or to a work bench to clean them, it is a great gun. If you live and sleep on the ground, the DI will absolutely Jam. DI requries care and lubrication. They are great for LEO. If you are Recon in the military and sleep on the ground and live without shelter for weeks at a time - absolutely go with a Piston gun. This is my personal experience.
I'm a civilian and I can only afford DGI and loves to clean so DGI is not an issue for me. The real problem with DGI is that it HATES WATER seriously. Haven't ask any NAM vets what they do when they try to cross a neck-deep river? They carry it way above their heads. And an ambush happened. Soo bad luck. In any MilOps in a middle of nowhere combined with badweather & all that river mud dust and whatever, our soldier seldom clean their guns in the field. Unless they reach one of their base camp.
With respect, all you have said are true. But all ends up in one question only. "In what application will you use the gun?" CIVILIAN (hunters, sports etc) DGI 1. Have all the time to clean. No hurry. 2. Firing less rounds. 3. Affordable MILITARY (LEA/Infantry) DGI or PD 1. Has time to clean 2. Firing more rounds 3. Price depends on the budget SPECIAL FORCES (Seals/Delta) PD 1. Allweather operatives 2. Can't clean in hot pursuit 3. Tons of rounds 4. Expensive but a must Watch HK vs COLT
Lol! "Hang on, we had another 556 around here, where'd it go. There it is, hang on a second." That just tickled me for some reason. So many AR's in one room, like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles. LOVE IT!
Was wondering if you knew anything about the M&P15PSX from Smith and Wesson. They claim that they have fixed some of the tilt issues and some of the heat issues that earlier gas piston guns have had. I know your big on keeping the weight down and they claim that they have got their piston guns to same weight as the early m&p guns. Just want to know your opinion on them and if you have any trigger time on them. Thanks alot. Kepp up the good videos.
You really tried to present a balanced video. And obviously had a slight bias in your feelings against pistons, however if you just listen to your own explanation of the operating systems you convinced me that the piston is better. Your feelings almost all leaned toward opinion, your facts almost all leaned piston.
Nutnfancy, can you possibly do a review on the very High-end, military developed Barrett REC-7 or HK 416? I think a major advantage those piston systems have is the extreme capacity for water, mud, and sand clogging up the tube and bolt, as a normal DI weapon would probably have a catastrophic failure because of it.
Expending six mags on a target 400 meters away then complaining about your carbine overheating might make headlines, but is a sign of poor leadership and training.We all cant be poorly trained idiots out their spraying bullets with our piston run shit asking to be picked off by a direct impingement rifle.
People ignore the fact that di is the most accurate and efficient rifle disign ever used by the US military.It is no more a perfect weapon system than the glock,1911,m1 rifle or any other rifle there is a reason why the FAL,m14,and others have come and gone yet the m16and m4 remain with the strongest military power on the planet. Much of this comes from unrealistic one shot kill expectations.
I have run a suppressed Rock River (DI) and LWRC (Piston) setups. I originally went with the piston setup because I believed that there would be less fouling in the upper receiver. As it turns out, regardless of operation, running suppressed is just messy. With the piston gun, it appears that you still get fouling from the gas exiting the chamber of the weapon when the bolt unlocks to extract a spent cartridge. Which one is dirtier? Hard to say cause they both need to be cleaned.
why the heck do they chrome plate the piston bolt carrier if there's less junk in the receiver? if you chrome plate the DI gun, then it would be a fair comparison.
I just want to say thanks for your videos. I am new to the AR and guns in general. Your videos have helped me make better decisions along the way. I did order the SR-556C two weeks ago and love it. They fluted the barrel among other things and shaved off 1/2 a pound. They are now coming out with an even lighter version which dumps the current rails. Anyway being new to this I just wanted a complete packed out of the box. My next AR will be a custom build DI probably to include spikes tactical.
The bottom line is: The AR platform was designed around a DI system, period. When you start fooling around with things like pistons, you are begging for more problems that you wish to bargain with. If you want a piston gun, get a AK.
And on that note, reliability of DI AR's is way overated. Most people that criticize their reliability are just misinformed, arrogant, or AK fanboys. Its a very reliable design when given proper maintenance.
@danieldefenseM4 yeah and they all believe media propaganda about issues from iraq. in iraq/afghanistan the problem wasnt/isnt the carbon fouling it was the dust.
@danieldefenseM4 Just remember that the next thing Armalite did was make the AR-18 (ar-15 with gas piston and a few other modifications) as a competitor to their original design. We could have stuck with carburetors instead of fuel injectors, and stick with CRT instead of LCD. I would be fine with DI, but a GP would be nice as well. And who knows, DI might go the way of the vacuum tube, especially with designs like the an-94/aek-971 recoil system.
word on that. even with the ak, if you want it be as accurate as it can be, and shoot as smooth as you'd like it to, you're still going to clean it/maintain it. even with the soviet infantry, they still issued out cleaning kits....
DI guns tend to be lighter than op-rod ARs. However, most jamming issues with ARs aren't from carbon buildup, but from crappy magazines or worn extractors.
Nutn, I was wondering: I see you shooting factory AR's a lot but have you or WILL you build your own? I think you should build one and then review it :)
Great vid, nonpartisan and well articulated points. I have a Colt AR and am heavily considering purchasing a Barrett Rec 7 in 6.8. Truth be told, you get what you pay for. In terms of reliability, a well manufactured DI Ar will function nearly identically to a top piston AR or visa versa. Btw, what brand of gloves are you wearing?
@nutnfancy If your so worried about muzzle sway than you should definitely consider changing the way you hold your foregrip with ur support hand. Try looking at Magpul Dynamics training DVD's on YouTube. The higher you get ur hand on the foregrip the less sway you will have making you faster too transition from target to target horizontally. Plus you should move the foregrip closer to the muzzle so it extends the contact point you have holding the rifle giving it more stability.
A MID-LENGTH D.I. gas system is going to be the best choice vs. the carbine length system as the carbine system was originally designed for the 10"-12" bbl (XM177). The mid-length is the correct gas tube length for a 16"bbl, I don't think enough people realize the overgassing that is inherent to a 16" carbine gas system, I'm not going piston until things become standardized. I'll be sticking w/the Mid-length for proper gassing/bayo capability, sight radius, rail space, hguard length, great vid!
@reeseman67 So, basically for the money, it's gonna cost a lot more to get a RELIABLE/TROUBLE FREE gas piston AR, vs. just swapping your carbine length bbl for a mi-length bbl and you can still use the VAST number of parts for D.I. that makes the AR platform so appealing. Also, the middy gas system (9") is somewhat CLEANER than a carbine(7"), and gives more time for the gasses to cool and the 16" bbl the lockup/timing closer to a 20" rifle(12"gas tube) than a 16" carbine length gas system.IMO
I've been a SWAT Operator for over a decade and serve as a Police Training Coordinator and armorer. Additionally, I have attended and co-instructed at IALEFI conferences across the country. While not the end-all, be-all of firearms knowledge, I'm experienced enough to have an opinion. I think everything you've said is dead on and I always appreciate the opportunity to gain new knowledge and reinforce or reinvent ideas about training and equipment. So thanks for the great posts.
I've been a SWAT Operator for over a decade and serve as a Police Training Coordinator and armorer. Additionally, I have attended and co-instructed at IALEFI conferences across the country. While not the end-all, be-all of firearms knowledge, I'm experienced enough to have an opinion. I think everything you've said is dead on and I always appreciate the opportunity to gain new knowledge and reinforce or reinvent ideas about training and equipment. So thanks for the great posts.
I'm not trying to nit pick but I do have one opinion i would like to air out. The placement of the vertical grip might be more advantageous if you placed it further away from the magwell. Perhaps closer to the front sight. This information comes from Larry Vickers, retired Delta operator, which he recommends placing the vertical grip further away for more stability.
Nice evaluation! Do not feel anxious to evaluate systems or items due to responses you may receive from others, an intelligent person knows that different and varying opions are good. I, for one like your video's and this one was of great interest. You did a fairly good eval within your knowledge base. I first came across the piston AR 15 last May at the NRA Conv. Stag Booth. I have been trying to decide since then, but like you I stand with the old reliable Gas M 16 system. Former Army Infantry
Nice evaluation! Do not feel anxious to evaluate systems or items due to responses you may receive from others, an intelligent person knows that different and varying opions are good. I, for one like your video's and this one was of great interest. You did a faily good evaluation within your knowledge base. I first came across the pistol AR 15 last May at the NRA Conv. Stag Booth. I have been trying to decide since then, but like you I stand with the old reliable Gas M 16 system. Former Army Inf
i think in the near future companies should re design the DI system to make it what it was supposed to be, a super-reliable-no-cleaning-needed system, like E. Stoner advertised
Takes many tools to clean a piston system. It only takes my hands to clean my DI Recce. Push out the take down pins and quick wipe down in the BCG area. BCG only need to be cleaned every few hundred rounds. Which is pretty simple to do too and doesn't require tools.
@m4a1jason wtf are you talking about? To many tools to clean a piston system? Ill i do is unscrew the piston, whipe it down and im done. Get your facts straight son.
Read Armalite's Tech Note: 54. I have to agree with them. Good Video(s) Nutn. I'm a former 82nd Abn Guy, and I like your no B.S./spin reviews. Don't let anyone get into your pockets/keep it real, and I'll keep watchin'. Again, Thanks for taking the time to do all of this.
Just got rid of a Sig 516, and went back to a DI. I did this for a few reasons. Parts availability, more moving pieces, and limited options for add ons. The only issue I ever had with my issued colt was the gas rings on the bolt, which were easily replaced. The Sig Piston system has the same gas ring setup on the piston system as on the bolt... just scaled down. In my opinion, this doubled my chances for failure. So I got rid of it. It did shoot nice, but so does my CMMG.
SO how do you like the now (ie 2012) thanks for the Video... - you should come to MY BSS ( Big Saturday Shoot May 12,12)
SNACKS1414 3 hours ago
The Ruger 556 is AWESOME but am biased after buying it LOL!
jigsaw183 4 days ago
I love how nutnfancy actually has REAL viewers...good discussions
jigsaw183 4 days ago
Nice video
SuperSig123 1 week ago
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jkjfhgkjhdflgfd 1 week ago
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jkjfhgkjhdflgfd 1 week ago
Rhetoric is neither positive or negative; by saying you don't like the rhetoric you are saying you don't like intelligent discussion.
josiahroberson 1 week ago
Good video. Here is some food for thought. Everyone keeps talking about the issues with the M16 design. While they were true for a period of ~6 months in 1965/1966 due to powder substitution and McNamara arrogance. While in the Marines I had to read every freaking safety/maintenance report involving small arms across the DoD and never had an M16 report cross my path not 100% user. Example a soldier forgot to put the firing pin retaining pin in.
Robbob9933 1 week ago
I like the DI guns but eventualy the piston will be modified and be a better choice but heat is going to be a big problem because nothings worse than getting branded when your wanting to have fun
sniperhunter95 1 week ago
31:00 I like DI for simplicity and replaceability. The gas tube is easy to find replacements of and there is nothing proprietary about it. For semi-auto, it is very good and my bushmaster has only ever failed me because of mags, not the gas system. 33:00, man that is beat up and well used.
gmillerguy 1 week ago
19:43 Good point. When going with a floated forearm, I decided to limit even the rails themselves with a YHM smooth forearm that has modular rail attachments. If I were to build another, I would go with the troy modular forearm.
gmillerguy 1 week ago
What do you think about the PWS piston AR?
MK116Alex 1 week ago
The reason the gas block gets so much hotter on a piston gun is it takes more gas and its closer to the front of the gun and the burning powder di guns are similar temp up there too
marcman5109 2 weeks ago
Nutnfancy i can fire a auto as fast a full auto
Slide fire stock FTW
CCWInTraining 2 weeks ago
Very helpful video. I'd like to see a video about automatic vs revolver video.
Shmeegol1 3 weeks ago
If you're shooting for civillian or law enforcement reasons then a piston gun is really an unneccesary expense. You don't have to shoot magazine after magazine on full auto until the lubricant is burned off the BCG & the need for a surpressor isn't as high. Simply put since a DI is acceptable as a military weapon for 40yrs+ it will serve your purposes in the nonmilitary world.
oeyesea 4 weeks ago
@oeyesea good point but people with money are lazy and like the "cleaner" piston system
JUKEBOXX1990 3 weeks ago
Ar 47 or ak 15
vanderleibf3 4 weeks ago
Both piston and DI systems have their own problems, but arguments over piston designs are (I feel) extremely exaggerated because of the general public's inertia to changing systems. The FNC, SKS, Tavor and many other rifles the world utilize short-stroke pistons (albeit being positioned differently). Carrier tilt is a manufacturing issue, if the tolerances arent high enough then suffice to say tilt will become evident, and heat is easily solved by different material heatsinks (i.e ceramic).
quentin132 1 month ago
@NYCrulesU Robinson arms XCR, he has a complete review on it, look it up.
Kylef7735 1 month ago
Thanks for the info. Sounds like, out of the box (factory built), either system is fine depending on your style. But, customizing from one system to another is a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing.
lonetreetechy 1 month ago
@NYCrulesU
Its a robinson arms, kinda pricey but an amazing peace of kit
harrisonu 1 month ago
GREAT VIDEO!
cgcheyne 1 month ago
thank you for the vid...it helped!!!
jwallsaap 1 month ago
@nutnfancy, Good vid, might have been a bit better organized. Would have liked a barebones weight comparison (lower without grip/stock, upper without hand guard/accessories), load out is a very personal endeavor. Also would have liked a weight balance comparison. A simple CG test can be done with a two point sling... Thanks for the information.
moonroverer 1 month ago
lol at "swing weight." try "inertia" instead.
HydeMyJekyll 1 month ago
whats that front sight oon that rra?
MichaelCalise 1 month ago
Cause to keep that running you need it to be well lubriicated to run! As log as your not a moron and give your gun some tlc every once in a while you'll be completely fine.
SSshane6d9 1 month ago
@Friedstuffsable All you did was copy and paste on differen channels right? Cause you wrote the same damn thing on another channel or you copied it off of some body! Also why did the Ak 74 revert to a smaller round if the Ak is the end all be all? Seems they moved towards the western way of thinkin huh? If D.I is broke then so your cara engine
SSshane6d9 1 month ago
is the Ruger you have the Ruger556E C or just 556? and does ruger make a Left Handed model?
im left handed, and want a quality gun that IS left handed...or will a right handed gun work for a left handed guy?
MommyBird10 1 month ago
@Friedstuffsable so you think the AK was the first long stroke gas piston? And if there ia something wrong with the 5.56 then why did the russians (creators of the AK) switch the the 5.45×39 with the AK74?
Vyppaaa11 1 month ago
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It is funny how the AR crowd loves to bash the AK. But the AR consumer world is moving towards piston guns in 30ish caliber designer rounds. The 6.8. 300 aac blackout, etc. All which have similar bullet weights, moving at Similar velocities to the 7.62x39mm. Even if it is short stroke piston & oppose to long stroke. Looks like the 'high tech' Ar is going back to it's competitors roots. There must be something wrong with the 5.56 out of a short barrel, & there must be something wrong with D.I. <
Friedstuffsable 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
22:15
Nutnfancy shows that he doesn't have a high school education by failing to grasp the concept of torque.
Nix6p 1 month ago
22:15
Nutnfancy shows that he doesn't have a high school education by failing to grasp the concept of torque.
Nix6p 1 month ago
@Nix6p and his made-up term of "swing weight" in place of "inertia"
HydeMyJekyll 1 month ago
i dont know why but just somethin about delta rings i just dont like i dont know if affects anything compared to a monolithic rail but just i dont like it
eagerbeaver53 1 month ago
Look wat happen in viet nufsaid
vanderleibf3 1 month ago
LWRC ALL THE WAY
MrUSA96 1 month ago
ya but the piston is more air cooled than a bolt inside a receiver
khyberpassgunsmith 1 month ago
In my professional opinion, I don't like how piston guns rise the rail a quarter or half a inch higher than common DI AR-15 rails. That causes major inconsistencies for shooters running red dot optics that want to switch their optics to DI gun to piston gun. That's my only concern other than piston guns run pretty great.
IMFDB 1 month ago
i mean if you like a gun that shits where it eats and spews gas in your face then be my guest.. buy Di
TexasDistortion 1 month ago
@TexasDistortion Agreed! This is only a debate because DI is being made redundant with Piston/Push Rod. If Piston/PushRod were predominate DI would have no chance of surviving this debate.
wericrable 1 month ago
I plan on getting a plum crazy complete lower for around $130. I then intend to order the Adams arms complete carbine length gas piston upper for $599. In total it will be around $730 bucks pluss I still need sights. Anyone got some inputs?
MrMauythaifighter 1 month ago
Good review what do you think about the Red jacket Firearms KMP DI AR 15
Ridven64 1 month ago
I meant destroying your upper rather. To elaborate alittle more on my comment too, I was referring to the piston gun not having bullet pressure on the bc, unlike di.
gtrdhybrid 2 months ago
From what I gathered also with a piston gun you will never have to worry about grenading your bcg (destroying your lower) if you use reloaded ammo and one of those times the brass fatigues under pressure.
gtrdhybrid 2 months ago
I think after palying around with M6 A2 you like piston a lot more nutn
vxAREKxv 2 months ago
what gas blocks are you running on that Ruger 556 that has the regular height picatinny rail on it?
BlunTTipps 2 months ago
I think I'll just get the orignal piston gun, AK47. And keep my AR stock, love it.
jamalski70 2 months ago
@jamalski70 that is the problem with M16 they must be routinely cleaned unlike the piston impingement rifles they do not need routine cleaning. In battles you do not have the time for regular cleaning to make the M16 sure to function. If you are using it only for shooting it will work reliably since you have the time for regular cleaning
diosdadoapias 1 month ago
I would like Piston guns more if the piston was a little more trim and not so bulky looking IMO. I would like to see a small piston with a FRONT SIGHT on it. Not just a Pic Rail. I'm gonna put a sight on it anyways, so just put a folding sight on it. Just me.
bmx65 2 months ago
Thanks NF, Very helpful info.
zozx 2 months ago
a big variable is the length of the gas system, it is been pretty substantiated that a rifle length gas system is just as a reliable as a piston system, short barreled systems are where more of the criticism is valid.
igotjuice007 2 months ago
Sure it gets dirty but does it effect the reliability? Sweet jesus, I shot only 100 rounds through a AK with silver bear 5.45 and the piston is carboned up something fierce. The man point is does it increase the chance of jamming the weapon. AK, no. AR with piston, ?
Allante715 2 months ago
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
mikewodstrchill 2 months ago
Great video. Thanks for clearing the two up for noobs like myself.
kneedeepinzombieshit 2 months ago 19
@kneedeepinzombieshit Nutnfancy isn't a douche like you see in many Forums. I was lambasted on a forum for asking a noob question, even though I let them know I was new. People are dicks. Nutn is NOT. :)
bmx65 2 months ago
just my opinan but maybe make your videos shorter or in parts because its hard for me to stay hooked
colinnewell844 2 months ago
weak fat people need guns
razmoe2000 2 months ago
@razmoe2000 and when multiple big men with guns enter your home being a skinny little person without a gun is going to protect you?
sk8b0i 2 months ago
@sk8b0i fear=control
razmoe2000 2 months ago
@razmoe2000
Funny troll :)
kamden1980 2 months ago
pistons might be the latest and greatest, but DI systems aren't going anywhere. I have bought and will continue to buy DI systems. I have a noveske, daniel defense, and I am considering a LaRue for my next AR-15.
Sherpaful 2 months ago
I bought a Stag Arms model 8 and I love it. I mostly shoot .22LR thru it since .223/5.56 is expensive. I have to say it shoots great and it's easy to clean. Since I'm an AR newbie I wanted something that didn't seem so daunting to take apart and clean. I have to say that these guns are easy to disassemble and clean and I think no matter what AR you buy you can't go wrong. Thanks nutnfancy for such great vids!
DEREKFUMI 2 months ago
Awesome vid, but piston ftw.
Di works in theory and in practical uses, but the environment fucks it up:/
Charlozz123 2 months ago
How about an update vid since this one is 2 yrs old. Unless you feel the same Nutnfacy
WiRefoXe 2 months ago 55
@WiRefoXe This is true the Gas Piston systems are cheaper now and more reliable!
edwardwills 4 days ago
What about the Stag Arms Model 8 piston ar-15?
cj89311 2 months ago
I agree with the vg comment, that's the way my ar is setup,
cskelton635 2 months ago
I just bought a DD ar and a dpms, Ive had rock river and bushmaster. As far as quility and metal type the DD is better but for the most part people are never going to push an ar that far. So they put out the extra cash for a top end rifle thats never going to really get used for whats its meant to do. As far as DI and piston, they are both good if clean... if people dont like to clean they need a good ak.
bryant0320003 2 months ago
Author/Journalist C.J. Chivers wrote an article about the reliability of the M4 in Afghanistan. He observed over 100 marines in 10-12 firefights & observed only one ftf. That ftf happend when a marine fell into a sewage pit but the marine had his rifle shooting again after 2 seconds. I don't readily accept info or reports from unnamed sources, especially on the internet. If you restrict your info to identifiable sources only you'll see a big difference in the evaluation of the DI systems AR/M4.
oeyesea 2 months ago
The piston system is fine but for the most part it is not necessary for the civillian usage. After over 17yrs of using DI I have never been in a situation where I desperately needed a piston system. Would I buy a piston driven rifle? Maybe, maybe not. I would avoid converting a DI rifle to a piston rifle. I find DI is greatly underrated for the most part; properly lubed& the dustcover up & it's going to be quite reliable. Nutnfancy is spot on concerning DI vs piston.
oeyesea 2 months ago
2 reasons to buy Piston over DI. Shorter barrel (less than 14 inches) or suppressing. Other than that, a DI is better in almost every way.
HellaFlushEvo 2 months ago
@ Nutnfancy. You probably have more piston gun experience than you know. If you have ever shoots AKs, SKS, M14, M1A, FAL, M1 Garand...they all piston drive.
Piston and DI are both fine for civilian application, we don't dive underwater then fire the gun full auto. see this HK416 over the beach test on you tube. It explain some advantage of Piston design
chungmytube 2 months ago
here's my bottom line imo, take care of your weapon and it will take care of you. both systems can be very effectively used and at the end of the day your preference it what matters. if you know and love di, dont change. if your new, do the research and decide. My police explorer mentor was in the Marine Corps and served four tours in the gulf and iraq/kuwait. If you gave him the choice of a 500 di rock river m4 or a tactical scar, hed pick the m4 all day. its just what he knows and trusts
crazy0ace1 3 months ago
DI for accuracy and lighter recoil
piston for sustained automatic fire
all depends on the POU, personally im partial to the DI system
HunterKiller308 3 months ago
Thanks for the awesome video and insight. Just subscribed and will be staying tuned.
maximus10460 3 months ago
Great meat and potatoes video. I have been sitting on the fence about an AR platform. I think as a standard sheepdog, either will suffice. Once again thank you for your time and enthusiasm.
tugabear2950 3 months ago
Thank god you made this vid. First time buyer and I was looking all over the place for a long video with ansering questions that were running all over my brain. Thanks :-)
Enigma00017 3 months ago
Neither system sucks. They both blow :-)
crackedskye 3 months ago
@crackedskye OH THAT WAS A GOOD ONE!
mkkraze 2 months ago
I run my DI with a FailZero bolt carrier. Yeah, the FailZero bolt carrier is expensive ($250.00), I have run it dry in harsh conditions. I got dirt, mulch, carbon and laquer on it, and its still maintained perfect function even after 300 rounds. Even with the red laquer shavings (brown bear ammo) on the bolt face, worked like a champ.
alielbaryeshua 4 months ago
I can only recommend the SIG 516 best AR ever!
coolmike1989 4 months ago
@coolmike1989 I bet their nice but best probably not. and probably cost an arm a leg and your first born child. I like my DPMS granted I'm new to AR's. what have you done to your Sig in the line of custom work ??
FalseSuspect 4 months ago
what i mean is, is that i dont think the sr556 is a solid rep for a piston design. the lwrc or adams arms elite is way better for the carbon fouling. they are self cleaning. no carbon and ive been shooting the lwrc for years. just saying.
Hip48Xn3 4 months ago
i have two piston ar's. one is an adams arms elite, the other is a lwrc. ive had the lwrc the longest 4-5 years. not once have i cleaned the gas piston. its fine. but both look dirty on the exterior, but they still keep going. i feel they are a superior design to the di. but i feel the complaints about civilian used di's isn't a real issue.
Hip48Xn3 4 months ago
im willing to trade off a couple of ounces up front to have something that (1) doesnt suffocate me while i'm shooting it from all the carbon spit out of the chamber (2) have rounds cook off in the chamber and (3) not having to clean it NEARLY as often. oh and being able to use a suppressor without choking to death. to each his own, DI or gas piston are both better than no AR at all :)
jon780 4 months ago
i just want to comment on your take on which position is better to shoot from, forward hand near the mag well or forward hand further up. Yes, forward hand further up is more accurate, and yes, forward hand closer is faster. So my answer is both. It depends on target distance. If the target is closer you have to react faster and it makes sense to have the hand closer, but if the target is further away, you have more time before he'll be able to get on target, so you want your shot to count
MrFawkesGuido 4 months ago
whats the optic on the rock river? im looking for a scope with 1-5ish mag. dont want to drop a grand tho
smcombs100 4 months ago
Good points on the dirt and the heat being transferred to the front of the piston gun. There's a video on YT called "AR-15 gas piston conversion torture testing" that's probably a good illustration of this--starts out with the guy firing full auto with no gloves and then putting a glove on his left hand part way thru...
DuckDodgers2400 4 months ago
@Composer1777 Oh... Well that makes a lot more sense. Thanx for the info bro. Semper Fi
Sennanchie 4 months ago
@Composer1777 Good info on the Promags, I'd heard most of the aftermarket mags for the Mini are pretty unreliable junk. I'll definitely give you the ballistic advantage of the 6.8, although for cheap blasting, the 7.62x39 is hard to beat; on the other hand, quality ammo for the AK gets right back up there. I believe that we are pretty much eye to eye on this issue, and I will agree that the Mini-14/30's are pretty close. I'd still choose the AK-47 for its military history and track record.
Comanchero762 4 months ago
@Composer1777 If you take the cost of the factory Mini-14 magazines into consideration, vs the cost of some good mil-spec AR mags, I'd say it"s pretty even. Although my personal preference is for a well-made quality AK-47 in 7.62x39. Always piston driven, always reliable, mags are dirt cheap and if you have $650 to spend, you can get a darn good one.
Comanchero762 4 months ago
@Nicho2177 You fail the interwebs, review 2:00
wakeboarder3780 4 months ago
ty for the video. i learned plenty. HUGE help to me as i make buying decision.
AngusMcSpuds 5 months ago
got an M&P-15 DI and it functions flawlessly
linkin622 5 months ago
once i shot an ar15 (DI) in a gun club and after 60 rounds in 5 minutes it could light a cigarette
SuperHectortilla 5 months ago
Wow, he stated CMMG has a gas piston upper for "around $300" at the time of this video. I just checked Midway and there up to $680 now! Almost exactly 2 years later. That's just not right!
Sennanchie 5 months ago
GREAT review, i love how you give the pros an cons, really helpfullll video, thanks a lot!!!!
insane931 5 months ago
hey nutnfancy,check out the adcor defense bear elite piston upper!
bobsolla 5 months ago
Whats the rifle you are shooting at the front of the video, without the forward assist? I also cant see a charging handle on the back, which is a serious plus for me since I cannot stand those cocking handles.
foughtwolf 5 months ago
Nice video, looking into getting my first AR, very informative, and helpful. Appreciate guys like you that share your knowledge to the newbees.
guzz95 5 months ago
One thing I'm thinking is down the road maintenance. I would imagine that when it comes to replacing the piston vs. replacing the bolt carrier group, the piston parts would be much cheaper. But that's just me guessing...
SOCAdam 5 months ago
My choice is the direct impingement.
SuperRip7 5 months ago
is it true that a gas piston is less accurate then the DI system? and what do you think is more reliable gas piston or DI
DEATHKEEPER588 5 months ago
is it true that a gas piston is less accurate then the DI system?
DEATHKEEPER588 5 months ago
What about DPMS? I know Bushmaster is combined with them.
404040c 5 months ago
i hope he made how its best reminton acr or bushmaster acr
lordjor82 5 months ago in playlist Más videos de nutnfancy
dident care ware i posted this but i did want to say it. i bought my first ar15 because of your influence. i referred to you vids for help while shopping. thanks for the vids
jordantheok 5 months ago
I've used DI for about 20yrs & I've never seen the need to have a piston system. I suppose there is somebody who does need a piston system for what he needs to do with the rifle. Nutn is 100% correct on DI being acceptable for LEO or range/hunting/self-defense.
oeyesea 5 months ago
i have a newbie question for @nutnfancy or anyone experienced, why are brand new rifles fresh out of the box generally inaccurate? and what do you have to do to dial them in correctly?
is it simply a matter of putting numerous rounds through it to break it the weapon? thanks
thosemynikes 6 months ago
I think it's interesting how the DI crowd is always hollering about the extra weight with the piston system, when these same guys will put on an aluminum 4 rail handguard and then hang all kinds of "tacticool" crap on the front end of their rifle and brag about how great it is. I own both DI and piston guns and cannot tell the difference in weight on the piston vs the DI without actually weighing them. They both have pluses and minuses....for the majority of civilians either will serve well.
Comanchero762 6 months ago
missed one data point basic ar-15 di gun $750 basic gas piston 1500-2000+
MrTacticalbacon 6 months ago
@MrTacticalbacon Complete AR lower from Gunbroker $150-$250.......+ complete Adams Arms basic 5.56 piston upper assembly $600 from Midway USA......Complete basic piston driven AR-15....$750-$850.
Comanchero762 6 months ago 10
@Comanchero762 I totally agree PSA and BCM grab a stripped stag lower buy a lower parts kit and then either build and upper or buy one built. I building my AR for $725 I saved well over $500.
Rougewolf 2 months ago
@Comanchero762 Dont forget an optic and BUIS too.
DustyxXxHuevos 2 months ago
My direct experience is that DI guns are great if you are able to go home or to a work bench to clean them, it is a great gun. If you live and sleep on the ground, the DI will absolutely Jam. DI requries care and lubrication. They are great for LEO. If you are Recon in the military and sleep on the ground and live without shelter for weeks at a time - absolutely go with a Piston gun. This is my personal experience.
frankgon4 6 months ago
I will always use the gas-piston rifles.
SuperRip7 6 months ago
how durable are dpms ar15s? im looking at one in 308. i was wondering if it would last at least 10k rounds with proper cleaning
choopdewoot 6 months ago
Great video! Best explanation of piston vs. direct impingment!
captovation 6 months ago
i know its not a comment for this one but what would u suggest a kci or a beta c mag for the 100 round twin drum mag
morbidangel2424 6 months ago
thanks nutnfancy great vid! this is a question that has been plaguing me for a wile as i am lookin to buy my first ar-15
laxrat224 7 months ago
I'm a civilian and I can only afford DGI and loves to clean so DGI is not an issue for me. The real problem with DGI is that it HATES WATER seriously. Haven't ask any NAM vets what they do when they try to cross a neck-deep river? They carry it way above their heads. And an ambush happened. Soo bad luck. In any MilOps in a middle of nowhere combined with badweather & all that river mud dust and whatever, our soldier seldom clean their guns in the field. Unless they reach one of their base camp.
codyshann 7 months ago
codyshann 7 months ago
That was very informative thanks!!!
BMSNoHope 7 months ago
Obviously there are no fatal flaws to the DI system. If there were it wouldn't have been in service very long.
SilvianoJ 7 months ago
Lol I have the same muffs but in black
SilvianoJ 7 months ago
Lol! "Hang on, we had another 556 around here, where'd it go. There it is, hang on a second." That just tickled me for some reason. So many AR's in one room, like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles. LOVE IT!
broadleaf81 7 months ago
is the ruger sr556 a good rifle to buy
thebtrlife 7 months ago
Was wondering if you knew anything about the M&P15PSX from Smith and Wesson. They claim that they have fixed some of the tilt issues and some of the heat issues that earlier gas piston guns have had. I know your big on keeping the weight down and they claim that they have got their piston guns to same weight as the early m&p guns. Just want to know your opinion on them and if you have any trigger time on them. Thanks alot. Kepp up the good videos.
ajbrown250117 7 months ago
Thanks for your informative and balanced video.
johnnink 7 months ago
You really tried to present a balanced video. And obviously had a slight bias in your feelings against pistons, however if you just listen to your own explanation of the operating systems you convinced me that the piston is better. Your feelings almost all leaned toward opinion, your facts almost all leaned piston.
81stingray1 7 months ago
Nutnfancy, can you possibly do a review on the very High-end, military developed Barrett REC-7 or HK 416? I think a major advantage those piston systems have is the extreme capacity for water, mud, and sand clogging up the tube and bolt, as a normal DI weapon would probably have a catastrophic failure because of it.
Lardman678 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Expending six mags on a target 400 meters away then complaining about your carbine overheating might make headlines, but is a sign of poor leadership and training.We all cant be poorly trained idiots out their spraying bullets with our piston run shit asking to be picked off by a direct impingement rifle.
ARMEDINFIDEL741 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
People ignore the fact that di is the most accurate and efficient rifle disign ever used by the US military.It is no more a perfect weapon system than the glock,1911,m1 rifle or any other rifle there is a reason why the FAL,m14,and others have come and gone yet the m16and m4 remain with the strongest military power on the planet. Much of this comes from unrealistic one shot kill expectations.
ARMEDINFIDEL741 7 months ago
I have run a suppressed Rock River (DI) and LWRC (Piston) setups. I originally went with the piston setup because I believed that there would be less fouling in the upper receiver. As it turns out, regardless of operation, running suppressed is just messy. With the piston gun, it appears that you still get fouling from the gas exiting the chamber of the weapon when the bolt unlocks to extract a spent cartridge. Which one is dirtier? Hard to say cause they both need to be cleaned.
mrwhite010283 8 months ago
piston is far better, its the only kind of AR i like
aks-74u ftw
MrDarkwolf1995 8 months ago
why the heck do they chrome plate the piston bolt carrier if there's less junk in the receiver? if you chrome plate the DI gun, then it would be a fair comparison.
rickylain 8 months ago
I just want to say thanks for your videos. I am new to the AR and guns in general. Your videos have helped me make better decisions along the way. I did order the SR-556C two weeks ago and love it. They fluted the barrel among other things and shaved off 1/2 a pound. They are now coming out with an even lighter version which dumps the current rails. Anyway being new to this I just wanted a complete packed out of the box. My next AR will be a custom build DI probably to include spikes tactical.
arsurvivalist 8 months ago
Comment removed
arsurvivalist 8 months ago
The bottom line is: The AR platform was designed around a DI system, period. When you start fooling around with things like pistons, you are begging for more problems that you wish to bargain with. If you want a piston gun, get a AK.
And on that note, reliability of DI AR's is way overated. Most people that criticize their reliability are just misinformed, arrogant, or AK fanboys. Its a very reliable design when given proper maintenance.
danieldefenseM4 8 months ago
@danieldefenseM4 yeah and they all believe media propaganda about issues from iraq. in iraq/afghanistan the problem wasnt/isnt the carbon fouling it was the dust.
jimmyhoffa9 7 months ago
@danieldefenseM4 Just remember that the next thing Armalite did was make the AR-18 (ar-15 with gas piston and a few other modifications) as a competitor to their original design. We could have stuck with carburetors instead of fuel injectors, and stick with CRT instead of LCD. I would be fine with DI, but a GP would be nice as well. And who knows, DI might go the way of the vacuum tube, especially with designs like the an-94/aek-971 recoil system.
Soulreaver296 7 months ago
@danieldefenseM4
word on that. even with the ak, if you want it be as accurate as it can be, and shoot as smooth as you'd like it to, you're still going to clean it/maintain it. even with the soviet infantry, they still issued out cleaning kits....
malleymyster 5 months ago
DI guns tend to be lighter than op-rod ARs. However, most jamming issues with ARs aren't from carbon buildup, but from crappy magazines or worn extractors.
armynurseboy 8 months ago
Nutn, I was wondering: I see you shooting factory AR's a lot but have you or WILL you build your own? I think you should build one and then review it :)
EverythingisFire 8 months ago
Great vid, nonpartisan and well articulated points. I have a Colt AR and am heavily considering purchasing a Barrett Rec 7 in 6.8. Truth be told, you get what you pay for. In terms of reliability, a well manufactured DI Ar will function nearly identically to a top piston AR or visa versa. Btw, what brand of gloves are you wearing?
Thanks
Hwsyurrd 9 months ago
@MrJayness Us too!! We are counting the days til he is back. -- Veri
nutnfancy 9 months ago
@nutnfancy which would you take to war with you, an ar or ak47 arsenal?
runhorun 8 months ago
@nutnfancy
where'd he go?
gauchitosimone 7 months ago
@nutnfancy If your so worried about muzzle sway than you should definitely consider changing the way you hold your foregrip with ur support hand. Try looking at Magpul Dynamics training DVD's on YouTube. The higher you get ur hand on the foregrip the less sway you will have making you faster too transition from target to target horizontally. Plus you should move the foregrip closer to the muzzle so it extends the contact point you have holding the rifle giving it more stability.
IMFDB 1 month ago
A MID-LENGTH D.I. gas system is going to be the best choice vs. the carbine length system as the carbine system was originally designed for the 10"-12" bbl (XM177). The mid-length is the correct gas tube length for a 16"bbl, I don't think enough people realize the overgassing that is inherent to a 16" carbine gas system, I'm not going piston until things become standardized. I'll be sticking w/the Mid-length for proper gassing/bayo capability, sight radius, rail space, hguard length, great vid!
reeseman67 9 months ago
@reeseman67 So, basically for the money, it's gonna cost a lot more to get a RELIABLE/TROUBLE FREE gas piston AR, vs. just swapping your carbine length bbl for a mi-length bbl and you can still use the VAST number of parts for D.I. that makes the AR platform so appealing. Also, the middy gas system (9") is somewhat CLEANER than a carbine(7"), and gives more time for the gasses to cool and the 16" bbl the lockup/timing closer to a 20" rifle(12"gas tube) than a 16" carbine length gas system.IMO
reeseman67 9 months ago
Nutnfancy,
I've been a SWAT Operator for over a decade and serve as a Police Training Coordinator and armorer. Additionally, I have attended and co-instructed at IALEFI conferences across the country. While not the end-all, be-all of firearms knowledge, I'm experienced enough to have an opinion. I think everything you've said is dead on and I always appreciate the opportunity to gain new knowledge and reinforce or reinvent ideas about training and equipment. So thanks for the great posts.
aphillips3325 9 months ago
Nutnfancy,
I've been a SWAT Operator for over a decade and serve as a Police Training Coordinator and armorer. Additionally, I have attended and co-instructed at IALEFI conferences across the country. While not the end-all, be-all of firearms knowledge, I'm experienced enough to have an opinion. I think everything you've said is dead on and I always appreciate the opportunity to gain new knowledge and reinforce or reinvent ideas about training and equipment. So thanks for the great posts.
aphillips3325 9 months ago
I'm not trying to nit pick but I do have one opinion i would like to air out. The placement of the vertical grip might be more advantageous if you placed it further away from the magwell. Perhaps closer to the front sight. This information comes from Larry Vickers, retired Delta operator, which he recommends placing the vertical grip further away for more stability.
rx78jj 9 months ago
Nice evaluation! Do not feel anxious to evaluate systems or items due to responses you may receive from others, an intelligent person knows that different and varying opions are good. I, for one like your video's and this one was of great interest. You did a fairly good eval within your knowledge base. I first came across the piston AR 15 last May at the NRA Conv. Stag Booth. I have been trying to decide since then, but like you I stand with the old reliable Gas M 16 system. Former Army Infantry
stephenabm 9 months ago
Nice evaluation! Do not feel anxious to evaluate systems or items due to responses you may receive from others, an intelligent person knows that different and varying opions are good. I, for one like your video's and this one was of great interest. You did a faily good evaluation within your knowledge base. I first came across the pistol AR 15 last May at the NRA Conv. Stag Booth. I have been trying to decide since then, but like you I stand with the old reliable Gas M 16 system. Former Army Inf
stephenabm 9 months ago
i think in the near future companies should re design the DI system to make it what it was supposed to be, a super-reliable-no-cleaning-needed system, like E. Stoner advertised
0mgwtfbbq21 9 months ago
how do you feel about the FailZero BCG and how they claim to improve reliability for the DI AR, seems like a pretty legit bolt if you ask me
0mgwtfbbq21 9 months ago
I like DI guns OK - they're just missing a few parts ;-)
linebaugh500 9 months ago
GREAT VIDEO!!!! It was full of good information that i needed before i buy.
kickrockss1 10 months ago
Takes many tools to clean a piston system. It only takes my hands to clean my DI Recce. Push out the take down pins and quick wipe down in the BCG area. BCG only need to be cleaned every few hundred rounds. Which is pretty simple to do too and doesn't require tools.
DI FTW
m4a1jason 10 months ago
@m4a1jason wtf are you talking about? To many tools to clean a piston system? Ill i do is unscrew the piston, whipe it down and im done. Get your facts straight son.
TexasDistortion 10 months ago
@TexasDistortion
Just because your specific model does that doesn't mean they all do. I'm not your son.
m4a1jason 10 months ago
@m4a1jason They all come apart the same, Ruger, Stag, CMMG, SIG. I dont know what tools are needed.
TexasDistortion 10 months ago
Read Armalite's Tech Note: 54. I have to agree with them. Good Video(s) Nutn. I'm a former 82nd Abn Guy, and I like your no B.S./spin reviews. Don't let anyone get into your pockets/keep it real, and I'll keep watchin'. Again, Thanks for taking the time to do all of this.
teel351 10 months ago
Just got rid of a Sig 516, and went back to a DI. I did this for a few reasons. Parts availability, more moving pieces, and limited options for add ons. The only issue I ever had with my issued colt was the gas rings on the bolt, which were easily replaced. The Sig Piston system has the same gas ring setup on the piston system as on the bolt... just scaled down. In my opinion, this doubled my chances for failure. So I got rid of it. It did shoot nice, but so does my CMMG.
teel351 10 months ago
here's a video of how much gas the glock gets during shooting. it's perfectly fine to run hot and full of carbon deposits. so are the DI AR's.
watch?v=B-ToCK4C7ig
rickylain 10 months ago