That is true if people forget history and lessions (which they are forced by Mass-media), but many of us use our knowledge to understand better and clearer each of those lessions and every moment of that history.
The socialist elements in the USSR got pushed back further and further by capitalist reforms taken under Kruschev and leaders after him. Some leaders like Andropov might have tried to counteract the forming ruling elite and its capitalist elements (and mentality).. but he couldnt stop the superstructure. When this new capitalist elite fought the socialist elements within the country, they eventually sold off and collapsed the whole union for the benefit of a new ruling elite/capitalism.
Things like "human rights" doesnt even exist. Not even what we have in the West or in the US. Its all priviledges that we temporarily got from the ruling elites. As soon as our people's become too rebellious, we get shot in the streets. Remember the Kent State massacre? human rights are a mere illusion. Even in our capitalist dictatorships. The USSR collapsed only because of one contradition: its introduced capitalist elements (from Kruschev era) contradicted too much with its socialist parts.
No problem. Your problem is still that you are slinging around generalised concepts without any historical accuracy or any defitions. Before we can agree on what kind of definitions we use for certain concepts (like bureaucracy, socialism, communism etc) we can never move closer to historical reality. What you just did was give a standard historical interpretation of the Soviet fall that is popularized in the West. its usually based on the opinions of right wing historians.
The correct spelling is "bureaucracy" pardon me. One of the final factors in the Soviet Union's fall was the way the early purges and Chekist atrocities had caused people to lose trust in the State at an early stage, and now that the State had finally aloowed itself to weaken, it only took a small push in any direction for the wole system to come crashing down. Riots began in many Warsaw Pact nations, much like the Hungarian Revolution years prior, and the Soviet State couldn't cope.
This in turn caused people to lose faith in the government and therefore communism, since one of communism's fundamental principals, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that government must provide for the workers. When the State not only couldn't do this, but started to expose itself as a corrupt bueracrcy, with the standard of living in the USSR clearly lower than other nations, the people started to become outraged.
@Okhlopkov The fall of the USSR is often attributed to corruption in the KGB and continueing human rights abuses. Kruschev's Secret Speech demonstrated that the State could be wrong, which ultimately led to Soviet citizens rising against the State and Premier Gorbachev submitting to the people's will rather than hardliners in the KGB. The fall of the USSR was a victory for Russia. It was Putin who said "Anyone who doesen't miss the Soviet Union as no heart, those who want it back have no brain."
That must be some simplified Western explanation for the fall of the USSR. I wonder what historian u have in mind when citing that explanation. Because most western historians here put far more emphasis on socio-economic factors. Just "human rights" is simple and boring. It negates the whole social and economic reality that the USSR was in. Kruschev himself was projecting all kinds of things on Stalin that actually reflected what he was: a dictator, a murderer, and a corrupt leader.
@Okhlopkov I apologise for not being on in about a week. Human Rights was just one of many factors that contributed to the fall of the USSR. Another factor was that the political ideology itself had failed. The mills and factories of the Stalin and Khruchev years had gradually fallen into disrepair. This in turn caused the economy to gradually fail, and eventually the government ceased being able to provide for it's people and shortages became more common.
How dare you criticize the crimes of the Cheka! Why don't you people ever tremble with moral indignation over the role of the west in the Russian Civil War, when 14 capitalist countries invaded the USSR and sided with the reactionary White Army scum. We admit that the Cheka killed thousands, so what? Their country was being invaded. If the United States was being invaded by 14 other nations, what do you think the FBI would do?
@jumpnjza2 The FBI would most likely be too weak to do anything due to the government buracracy that usually surrounds their actions. They'd either be disbanded due to alleged atrocities or they'd collapse under pressure.
перевод отстой полный,иностранцы тут пишут,но они не поймут глубокого смысла этого фильма,сколько раз бы не смотрели.Михалкова лучший фильм на мой взгляд.
This is one of the best Soviet films of Mikhalkov's production of the book Volodarskogo with the best music by Edward Artemiev and that says it all ...
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communism ideology .was created by jews Karl Mordechai ( Marx) and Moses Hoess ,to brainwshed slavis russian workers goyim about equality .What so called revolution was ,steal millions from middle class Russians ,sadistic killing of poeple,and took power with central bank .Communism is a way to unslave humans and make money of of their slave work.and centralise communist bank - thats what Walls street jewish zionist bankers wants.these marxist idiots here hosuld be SHOT.like theCHEKIST MOVIE
I do not approve of communism, just that I was born in the Soviet Union and respect our film industry. And you are always and everywhere see enemies ...
this movie was weird. the soundtrack was like simon and garfunkel had gone back in time to revolutionary russia. was the cavalry officer supposed to represent trotsky or what.
There were deaths in the Ukraine, even food shortages, but NO famine. The deaths caused by food shortages was mostly caused by rich landowning farmers that were hoarding food to strangle the workers in the cities!!!! they wanted to starve the revolution! But they failed when Stalin and his allies pushed for collectivisation, and the resistance of the landowning classes was broken. It was a great Victory for the workingclasses and the poor peasants.
Cheka was Soviet state agency, and her name means in short, what was her responsible of, -All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution, Profiteering and Corruption.-
Now, I would like you to give me list of all names cross referenced about their ethnic origin, of all memebers of Cheka from 1917 till some extended period of time. Thats how are we going to see who consists of majority BY ETHNIC background... But wait you don't have something like that do you?
Haha, your source is Germar Rudolf?? Are you kidding me? (among other, he is holocaust denier) And to be worse, his only source was Nikita Petrov? Man put down by Gorbatchov and Yeltsin to bad mouth Soviets and Communists... who is presently one of the all-around-experts about Russia, and is badmouthing Russia at the moment for cheap western money...
And above all that, Lenin was a Soviet, as all of the people that worked in Soviet government...
You mean hear-say evidences that are never going to be properly interrogated (or even better, that names are unknown), and which can't even pass on any legal court as even most distant fact?
Damn... I think you can find on google search now, about 10s of 1000s witness statements about how they saw god, and how that god had 'planted seed in their womb' which they got pregnant after...
When the Soviets seized power, rightist propaganda called it a Jewish conspiracy, now they say that the Soviet Union killed more Jews than Hitler! If you're going to have delusions, at least make them somewhat cogent.
Ohh yeah, the White Armies were backed by the West, they massacred around 100,000 Jews. Lenin on the other hand was AGAINST ALL FORMS OF ANTI-SEMITISM!
The Cheka did not fight for the people. it was a sick and ruthless organization. Founded by a nut named Felix who admitted in 1919: "We stand for terror, this must be clearly understood." One good thing about Iron Felix -- he killed more Russians than any other Pole I know!!!!
Coming from a person who is quoting Dzerzhinsky out of context, picking out part of the quote to his liking.
Why don't you do us all a favor and quote fully? You either don't know the full quote (its something you remembered as parrot), or you intentionally won't post it?
Either way, I find your post to be amusing, and surely to the people visiting this video, so please continue to shower us with your pearls of 'knowledge' so that we can all laugh to the products of 'democratic' society.
@TrueCommunist "An officer must train his heart to be cruel." -Dzerzhinsky. Have you ever heard of canfor oil? It was used under Stalin to extract "confessions" from political dissedents. It isn't uncommon for people injected with canfor oil to break their own bones in the midst of the violent seizures. Please respond.
@Okhlopkov Actually the rich landowning farmers were all in Gulags, it was the State who hoarded food. Let's not forget that 30,000 Ukrainians died every single day, or what about the way entire villages simply dissappeared? Great victory for farmworkers? All the farmworkers were dead. And what propoganda have you been watching? If those 10 million people didn't starve to death then what happened to them? Tell me, have you ever lived under communism? Please respond, I'd like to discus this.
I can see on your profile that you want to provoke communists, that smells like a genuine troll. But i can try to entertain you a little. I like it how you throw around historical concepts that you have no real knowledge about. The term "kulak" is just as empty for you as an empty can of pepsi. Same goes for things like "rich landowning peasants' or a "farmworker" or "communism". There are processes that exist during revolutions that you cant even contemplate.. things like class struggle/warfare
@Okhlopkov Okay, I have to say that I'm sorry for coming across as rude, you are entitled to your beleifs. I learned it the hard way that being too tough on my political opponenrts makes me look, well, rude. But, I would still like to have a legitimate, civilised discussion with you. The chekists were cruel and didn't promote political growth, it's very difficult to argue with that but if you have an arguement I'd love to hear it. Please reply.
Rude is an understatement.. with an attitude like that you could get beaten if you approach people like that in real life. I wonder how you approach your "communist" friends? it cant be with that attitude i am sure. But yea to your question: you use the word "cruel" because you have no understanding of the underlying social dynamics of the historical period. I wonder how someone would interpret American soldiers killing foreigners to maintain their "US security"? are they cruel or patriotic?
@Okhlopkov You are right, rude is an understatement. As for the underlying social dynamics, I find nothing complicated about a totalitarian State that ruled every part of it's citizens' lives. As for US soldiers killing foreigners for the sake of security, I admit our foreign policy is flawed, but only slightly. Atrocities occur in all wars, during the Normandy Invasion US soldiers murdered POWs, but this pales in comparison to atrocities committed by Soviet Secret Police, including the Cheka.
Well.. your description of Soviet society shows to me that you have no understanding of the social dynamics. You adhere to an historiographic image that is projected onto the USSR but it has no connection to reality (The "totalitarian paradigm"). The totalitarian paradigm tells us in the Cold War that all social movements in the USSR were slaved to the communist party and its totalitarian rule.. but it cant be further from the truth. There were mass movements in the USSR, independent groups etc.
The totalitarian paradigm also ignores the real basis of Soviet power: the strength of working and peasant classes that supported it. They were very organised and had a will of their own. They tried to steer the Soviet government towards their class interests. And its exactly the basis of Soviet democracy. The people also demanded for the creation of strong police bodies that would crush foreign and internal opposition towards the Soviet Government. How far would you go to defend the US?
The USA also got strong police agencies to defend its capitalist state. They proved more than once that there are willing to go very far to defend its state. Why is this totally "alien" when a socialist country does the same thing? but the only difference is that the USSR "were" in real hard revolutionary and warlike conditions, while the CIA did things without such conditions (they just created them, 9-11 what else). And i wasnt talking about small US crimes but bigger ones.
Things like: Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Bay of pigs invasion, the invasions of Iraq (1.5 million deaths because of boycot and occupation). Afghanistan, Vietnam (more than 10% of the entire population wiped out > more than 8 million deaths) etc. The list is so endless that i would even bother naming them all. Not to mention the poliitical and economical support that the USA gave to extreme right wing dictators in the world that killed off their populations. What the Cheka did was understandable..
I'm sure you know that the Cheka imprisoned people for political crimes like speaking out against the State or conducting other acts interoperated as intending to “overthrow, subvert or undermine the Soviet power”.
In the United States, it is perfectly legal to be “political dissident” so long a you don’t resort to violent opposition.
Oh is it? America has thousands of political prisoners locked up for life. The whole Black Panther movement got annihilated because it was considered a "threat" to the US government. The movements bright and political leaders were even assassinated by the FBI in their own homes, while they were sleeping. Or they bought up lone junkies to do the work for them (because they were getting a bit unpopular). Actually Soviet "dissidents" only could have a max sentence of 15 years, no such things occur.
Err, the USSR was fighting a very violent opposition, the white armies were responsible for the massacre of 100,000 jews in the Crimea alone. Their crimes are on a scale much much worse. The same White Armies were supported by the West. When was the last time the United States was invaded by 14 other countries, an invasion which caused the deaths of 10 million of it's citizens?
@jumpnjza2 Did these White Armies still exist in 1953? Why wasn't the secret Police disbanded (or drastically reduced in size) when the violent threat was obviously gone?
Why didnt the USA disband its armies after WW2 was over? The struggle was done right? they only kept increasing and increasing it. Enhancing all its capabilities. The USSR actually put more than 10 million people back into the reserves, releasing them from active duty. It showed all the posturing of a peaceful country. And the USA only responded with hostilities, spy games, even U2 flights over the USSR. They had reason to keep their secret police intact. Unless u live in an idealistic world.
@Okhlopkov You're right, I have a poor analogy. However, the US Military, FBI and CIA were founded to combat outside threats as well as non-political crime. The Cheka was founded to combat interior threats from Tsarist remnants, which were gone after WW2. Aren't outside threats the job of the military and the SMERSH (Smert' Shpionam or "Death to Spies"), who I beleive actually were disbanded aftter WW2?
The formation of the Cheka was purely logical in its revolutionary history. It was there to safeguard the interests of the working class and the working class party ( the communist party). The conditions that plagued the USSR required the formation of safeguards for the revolution. This never ceased to be gone, since the threats continued to remain, as 1991 and the fall of the USSR have shown. (among others).
@Okhlopkov Under the Stalinist Stavka Directive No. 1919 it was the SMERSH branch of the NKVD who were responsible for counter intelligence, counter-terrorism (or "anti-partisan warfare" as it was called), capture of deserters and maintaining military disipline in the Red Army? Leaving the rest of the Secret Police to concentrate on strictly political, interior threats?
Where did u find that? "Stalinist Stavka" that sounds like a very odd and a strange description. Smells like wikipedia honestly. Technically it was always the end responsibility of the NKVD over such matters.. and in the total end of the chain, the Soviet court system (yes it existed). But why are u bringing this up anyway?
@Okhlopkov Another thing, most of the time torture is not used. The few times it is used are to interrogate, not to extract false confessions. When torture, which I oppose, is used it is mild compared to most Chekist tortures and consist of humiliation, sleep deprivation and simulated drowning. I don’t condone these, they aren’t reliable anyway, but the fact is they are used and don’t compare to Chekist tortures
I wish this was true but it isnt. In the context of 9/11 and the hunt for "terrorism" America literally hunted and locked up thousands of people again. This time they locked them up without trial, no legal council, they were tortured, subjected to waterboarding, psychological torture. And they locked them up in secret CIA prison camps riddled over Europe (Reminds you of something?) And not to speak about the horrible crimes in Abu-Graib, that shocked the world. Chekists did nothing comparable.
@Okhlopkov Yes, it does sound familiar, it sounds quite a bit like the MGB, which I'm sure you know is one of the Cheka's sucsessors. I don't condone torture, whether it be Chekist or FBI and I think 15 years working to death in a place where your breath freezes before it hits the ground puts Chekists at at least an equal level to the crimes of the FBI.
The Cheka, NKVD, MGB or KGB were all childsplay compared to the CIA and the FBI during the Cold War. I dont have to remind you who "won" the Cold War right? The CIA/NSA and the dozens of agencies they have, all worked together to eliminate the faked communist threat, inside and waaay outside their borders. They killed millions of people in these "containment policies". Direct and indirectly through the work of fascist dictators.
You call 15 years of max sentence in a labour camp bad? you must have some Cold War vision of such camps because most people were released before their sentence was done even. Even the so called "famous Soviet dissidents" were released, and when they were fired before from their working positions (like teacher), they could get their old job back after they served their sentence! in America a prisoner cant even vote in some cases. Talk about honesty? Working to death is a mere slander.
People in America can get 300 years in prison, or even the deathsentence. Such sentences were not given lightly in the USSR.
I am not blinded enough to call FBI entirely evil, I consider the fact that in the end they have to defend the capitalist state as something bad. I would never claim that everyone that the FBI arrests.. is innocent. Something you would easily claim about the Cheka. That shows the deluded aspects of people that are brainwashed by Cold War anti-communism.
@Okhlopkov I thought they were only released after the Reforms of Premier Nikita Segeyavich Kruschev, who publicly condemned Stalin's actions against political prisoners and his personality cult in his famous Secret Speech, which was only retracted after it took full affect and was likely influenced by high ranking KGB officers who to stay in power, engineered the Hungarian Revolution. After the demonstrating that new equipment was needed and the Army to contiue operations in Eastern Europe.
Those 10 million deaths are a fabrication, hell the whole "Ukranian Famine" was a nazi started myth before the invasion of the USSR! they started that myth so they could "liberate" the Ukraine, a wealthy country in resources. Its actually the same kind of demonisations that America does about the Taliban and Saddam before those invasions. They are Satan themselves apparantly, before they get 'liberated'. This is an old imperialist trick.
When you read in newspapers or watch on TV claim that Coca Cola is the best drinking potion, its definitive and absolute proof that it is?
I mean... even the most gullible brainwash parrot wouldn't be that limited.
Or maybe we should additionally ask William Randolph Hearst, the great Nazi sympathizer and US news magnate about his sources about this, because apparently he was the only one broadcasting this propaganda... i mean 'news' to the public... Sieg Heil?
Dzierżyński was psycho butcher and traitor, it was so touching momenth when i saw how crowd of casual people demolish his monument in Warsaw 1989... ah, good old times.
What so heroic he ever done? You know what`s heroism? Read about Witold Pilecki, or if it really needs to be leftist hero... Kościuszko.
Meaning... isn`t it an irony that the mass movement (10mio!!!) of hungry workers destroyed communism in Poland? Felix was symbolic, fake "hero", like almost everything in communist "paradise", fake and forced.
Creating, managing, spending part of his life to Commission for fighting efficiently against Sabotage and Counter-revolution, that is heroic in every communist and intelligence circles.
Calm down, and wake up from your hyper-forced-dreaming.
'Communism' in Poland? That boy, was nothing more then capitalism, which have, after the 'fall', misled the workers that they could have some of the fruits west has. Nothing more then changing the wallet, which is even more empty. Reason is not prime there
Rather secret political police, with unspecyfied privillages.
Dreaming?
Even now, there`s no "pure" capitalism as well. Empty you say... in communism there should be even no wallets, but that`s me who`s dreamer. Dreamers with fanatic sacrifice made a nightmare from a decent people lives, how many millions payed the biggest price for realisation of someones sick dream? Like colectyvisation...
That`s what i mean by agressive fanatism, or just radicalism.
I`m not monarchist, nor sociologist, i don`t even have a degree in English, but at least i`m not thief, nor murder, unlike bolsheviks. Bolsheviks haven`t had any democratic mandate to rule anyway, they just took power by force.
Took it away from bourgeoisie. And they have taken parts (its stealing to them, of course) from bourgeoisie, and killed the aggressive capitalists. Unlike capitalists, who steal and kill all, even of their own kind.
Thats my point. From a look of a free working man, Communists are heroes, while from the looks of the present ruling classes (bourg.) they are the enemy.
And don't talk about democracy, if you have no clue in it. We only have democracy of the bourgoiesie class...
Does it matter who am i? Yes, i know history and i know how the utopic ideas of Marks and Engels were realeised... fortunatelly it`s only history, tragic social experiment.
Yes, it matters, cause it creates a credibility in your text. (Be that your own or society's creation)
As I stated, 'tragic' to some and 'heroic' to the many.
Utopia? 'Ideas' of Marx and Engels? Now, thats uneducated. Not to say unhistorical.
I asked you what you are, only cause I can't see any coherency in your writings. Meaning, not even you know what are you saying, let alone someone else.
Were 10mio of Ukrainian and Russian starving farmers those "burgoise"?
Lenin just lost the only one free elections in Russia and started his "bolshevik terror" with Felix, that was what i mean by lacking social mandate.
Takeing saomeones property (like food from farmers) is just steling and nothing else.
Democracy is not the proletaryat dictature or bolshevik terror, that is what i know for sure. And yes, originally democracy in Greece was reserved only for some group of citisens.
Starving? Soviets took from the rich who were hoarding, destroying and hiding food from the rest of the population, who couldn't pay for food. Soviets took, and killed those who got violent, from the rich farmers (kulaks). And gave it to the rest of the starving country. Not to say that during those years of famine, they had 4y of droughts, and not to say that Ukraine was the 'feeding' ground of the USSR (more then 70%).
And, now, YOU are switching the blame of those rich bourgeoiesie farmers to the new free Soviet State! State which was under constant attacks from the whole bourgoiesie world from its beginning who only brought famine, death and misery to the Soviet State.
Soviet state wasn`t free if farmer couldn`t have there even his self erected food... not to mention "bolshevik terror" of Felix and Lenin (who lost elections). How come that before bolsheviks started to steal there was never such a horrible disaster in Ukraine, which, as you admited, got great agriculture?
And when you see, all those brave, heroic men and women who fought for that Soviet, against all those odds, and still remained humans in dignity and actions, you can put your shovinistic heros aside, for a that is heroism and selflessness of the working class. Many times before it was manifested, and it many times after, it will be. And people never forget them, like they never had.
You know... you can lie to the others, but, what pains me is, that you are lying to yourself, not aware of it yet
Like which "chavinistic" heroes? Kościuszko?? Even Piłsudski was socialist... and put real chavinists out of the real politics, but not murdered as your "heroes". Yes, verry humanitarian were especially purges of Stalin in which died whole KPP (made of SDKPiL of Felix etc.), terror of NKVD (sucessor of "czeka") and so on. What about gulags?
And who is lieing? I`v hold, just for fun, a collection of "history" books made by soviet "science" institute under J. M. Żukow. Verry interesting lecture.
For someone who has no clue in sociology (philosophy), you 'present' much...
I wanted to say only one thing, people may be tainted to hate those 'leaders', but later when next wave of revolutions (very broadly said) splash this world, and same people (same 'jobs':Cheka and 'doings':removing capitalist) take over roles of 'leaders', people will cheer them with with all their might...
I don't even care if people love Stalin,Dzerzhinsky... they will love the next ones. That is what 'matters'.
Sure, sure... or they`ll just made people to love them, otherwise bullet in the back of the head... like in Katyń. In the case of murdering everone who doesn`t love... yes, they could be "trully" loved.
Face it, one elite was changed for another, Tzar was changed on first secrettary and only decent people suffered the same as before. It was just FAKE!
No wonder, you don't grasp it. I hope your day-dreaming is giving you much happiness as you 'claim'.
Ah Katyn... you know, where that Nazis or even Soviets, I always like to see Polish officers dead, in that case, any officer of bourgoiesie army. And if you stand and think that more then half of the world is anti-bourgoiesie, it tells in levels doesn't it? Not to say, communist supported.
Maybe... its not a world's problem, maybe its just a 'minority' problem, your problem?
You`r primitive man and i think that we should end this conversation as it only makes you to feel anger and frustration becouse the "majority" lost. You`r not even bothering yourselve to think who was majority if bolsheviks lost the only one free elections in Russia.
You obviously understood what I was saying, and now you try, again, to blame someone else (me) for your 'retreat'.
Now, as I said, goto your history books, and reread (if you ever read it) that part of history... Read it and try to understand, I know that its going to be hard at first for you, but you will make it at some point.. Then come back here to discuss what parts you find it hard to understand!
5th Gulags=Prisons, and if you compare now, that in US during 1 year, it holds 7mil.
prisoners, while during USSR period of 1924-1950', total of passed trough gulag procedure were less then 7mil. All prime numbers of Yeltsin's Duma.
6th I haven't answered to number of your provocations, only cause I've did that in past posts. I don't want to waste time repeating it for 100 time, and you ignoring it.
So you say that 10mio Ukrainians were those "evil kulaks"? It could be just funny, if not the mortality caused by food stealing. Face the truth, stop listening to the soviet lies, it was nothing else but sick idea to steal the food and then to reglament it... what kind of "economy" is that? Same goes for north Corea even now, deadly, unefficient and just unnatural systhem.
IF you read what I posted, you will see that those '10milion' dead were the results of famine caused drought but amplified 100 times by KULAKS cause of their hoarding and sabotaging.
And you AGAIN talk about economy, sociology, and ground them as your text foundations...
Maybe you should do a reality check on capitalism?
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Awesome, I can't wait to watch the whole film.
3sjh3 5 months ago
So many sacrifices, so many lives lost. Back to square one
kashgar22 1 year ago
@kashgar22
That is true if people forget history and lessions (which they are forced by Mass-media), but many of us use our knowledge to understand better and clearer each of those lessions and every moment of that history.
TrueCommunist 1 year ago
The socialist elements in the USSR got pushed back further and further by capitalist reforms taken under Kruschev and leaders after him. Some leaders like Andropov might have tried to counteract the forming ruling elite and its capitalist elements (and mentality).. but he couldnt stop the superstructure. When this new capitalist elite fought the socialist elements within the country, they eventually sold off and collapsed the whole union for the benefit of a new ruling elite/capitalism.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
Things like "human rights" doesnt even exist. Not even what we have in the West or in the US. Its all priviledges that we temporarily got from the ruling elites. As soon as our people's become too rebellious, we get shot in the streets. Remember the Kent State massacre? human rights are a mere illusion. Even in our capitalist dictatorships. The USSR collapsed only because of one contradition: its introduced capitalist elements (from Kruschev era) contradicted too much with its socialist parts.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
No problem. Your problem is still that you are slinging around generalised concepts without any historical accuracy or any defitions. Before we can agree on what kind of definitions we use for certain concepts (like bureaucracy, socialism, communism etc) we can never move closer to historical reality. What you just did was give a standard historical interpretation of the Soviet fall that is popularized in the West. its usually based on the opinions of right wing historians.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
The correct spelling is "bureaucracy" pardon me. One of the final factors in the Soviet Union's fall was the way the early purges and Chekist atrocities had caused people to lose trust in the State at an early stage, and now that the State had finally aloowed itself to weaken, it only took a small push in any direction for the wole system to come crashing down. Riots began in many Warsaw Pact nations, much like the Hungarian Revolution years prior, and the Soviet State couldn't cope.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
This in turn caused people to lose faith in the government and therefore communism, since one of communism's fundamental principals, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that government must provide for the workers. When the State not only couldn't do this, but started to expose itself as a corrupt bueracrcy, with the standard of living in the USSR clearly lower than other nations, the people started to become outraged.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov The fall of the USSR is often attributed to corruption in the KGB and continueing human rights abuses. Kruschev's Secret Speech demonstrated that the State could be wrong, which ultimately led to Soviet citizens rising against the State and Premier Gorbachev submitting to the people's will rather than hardliners in the KGB. The fall of the USSR was a victory for Russia. It was Putin who said "Anyone who doesen't miss the Soviet Union as no heart, those who want it back have no brain."
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
That must be some simplified Western explanation for the fall of the USSR. I wonder what historian u have in mind when citing that explanation. Because most western historians here put far more emphasis on socio-economic factors. Just "human rights" is simple and boring. It negates the whole social and economic reality that the USSR was in. Kruschev himself was projecting all kinds of things on Stalin that actually reflected what he was: a dictator, a murderer, and a corrupt leader.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov I apologise for not being on in about a week. Human Rights was just one of many factors that contributed to the fall of the USSR. Another factor was that the political ideology itself had failed. The mills and factories of the Stalin and Khruchev years had gradually fallen into disrepair. This in turn caused the economy to gradually fail, and eventually the government ceased being able to provide for it's people and shortages became more common.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
FAO morons who are so virulently anti-cheka:
How dare you criticize the crimes of the Cheka! Why don't you people ever tremble with moral indignation over the role of the west in the Russian Civil War, when 14 capitalist countries invaded the USSR and sided with the reactionary White Army scum. We admit that the Cheka killed thousands, so what? Their country was being invaded. If the United States was being invaded by 14 other nations, what do you think the FBI would do?
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
@jumpnjza2 -you should definetely go to GULAG!!
and work and die in Siberia !!during the Lenin times!
napajedlacek 1 year ago
@jumpnjza2 The FBI would most likely be too weak to do anything due to the government buracracy that usually surrounds their actions. They'd either be disbanded due to alleged atrocities or they'd collapse under pressure.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
@MikaeleBaker
You know what I mean. They'd create an agency with similar powers, it only makes sense.
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
перевод отстой полный,иностранцы тут пишут,но они не поймут глубокого смысла этого фильма,сколько раз бы не смотрели.Михалкова лучший фильм на мой взгляд.
Artem3185 1 year ago
This is one of the best Soviet films of Mikhalkov's production of the book Volodarskogo with the best music by Edward Artemiev and that says it all ...
Enough already brain to fuck yours stupid posts!
selzastol 2 years ago
Развили блядь малину?
Это один из лучших советских фильмов постановки Михалкова по повести Володарского и с лучшей музыкой Эдуарда Артемьева и этим все сказано...
Заебали сраться уже!!!!!!!
selzastol 2 years ago
Soviet Kitsch
mikelkane 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
communism ideology .was created by jews Karl Mordechai ( Marx) and Moses Hoess ,to brainwshed slavis russian workers goyim about equality .What so called revolution was ,steal millions from middle class Russians ,sadistic killing of poeple,and took power with central bank .Communism is a way to unslave humans and make money of of their slave work.and centralise communist bank - thats what Walls street jewish zionist bankers wants.these marxist idiots here hosuld be SHOT.like theCHEKIST MOVIE
napajedlacek 2 years ago
No comment, you killed yourself there napajedlacek...
TrueCommunist 2 years ago 6
just study and read
you can start with book
JURI LINA - under the sign of scorpion!!
recommended
napajedlacek 2 years ago
What do you know about the Soviet films, including this?
selzastol 2 years ago
thats bolsevik communist KILED MOTHER RUSSIA !
I HATE FUCKING JUDEO BOLSEVISM !!!
napajedlacek 2 years ago
Jesus ...
I do not approve of communism, just that I was born in the Soviet Union and respect our film industry. And you are always and everywhere see enemies ...
selzastol 2 years ago
@napajedlacek
If the Cheka went around shooting people like you, then Felix Dzerzhinsky is my new hero!! GLORY TO THE CHEKA FOR TAKING OUT THE TRASH!
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
excellent video. thanks
fedzog 2 years ago
Long Live The Glorious And Loving Memory Of Tovarish F.E.Dzerzhinski,The IRON FELIX...
sanatclara 2 years ago
this movie was weird. the soundtrack was like simon and garfunkel had gone back in time to revolutionary russia. was the cavalry officer supposed to represent trotsky or what.
soakchips 2 years ago
There were deaths in the Ukraine, even food shortages, but NO famine. The deaths caused by food shortages was mostly caused by rich landowning farmers that were hoarding food to strangle the workers in the cities!!!! they wanted to starve the revolution! But they failed when Stalin and his allies pushed for collectivisation, and the resistance of the landowning classes was broken. It was a great Victory for the workingclasses and the poor peasants.
Okhlopkov 3 years ago 4
The Cheka was a Jewish organization. There were very few slavs in the Cheka. Why do you celebrate murdering Jewish Bolshevik Cheka ?
FinalWar1444 2 years ago
Cheka was Soviet state agency, and her name means in short, what was her responsible of, -All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution, Profiteering and Corruption.-
Now, I would like you to give me list of all names cross referenced about their ethnic origin, of all memebers of Cheka from 1917 till some extended period of time. Thats how are we going to see who consists of majority BY ETHNIC background... But wait you don't have something like that do you?
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
But then, next question, when you answer this first one, comes... how the hell can ethnic origin have to do with anything?
Maybe they inherit some 'evil' DNA index? Hahaha... Not even modern biology can prove validity of something like that...
In the end, all you people are good for, is vague debates about nothing for nothing... But for that you only need carton box, not a other human.
Cheka fought for the people, and was made from the people. Deal with reality...
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
I have a video about the Checka with sources listed about the Jewish origins of the Cheka. Cheka is Jewish and not Slavic. Lenin is also a Jew.
FinalWar1444 2 years ago
Haha, your source is Germar Rudolf?? Are you kidding me? (among other, he is holocaust denier) And to be worse, his only source was Nikita Petrov? Man put down by Gorbatchov and Yeltsin to bad mouth Soviets and Communists... who is presently one of the all-around-experts about Russia, and is badmouthing Russia at the moment for cheap western money...
And above all that, Lenin was a Soviet, as all of the people that worked in Soviet government...
Nazi paranoia really don't have limits, does it?
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
This is so funny, I'll have to save this page when we finish this...
Is Stalin a jew too? Portuguese jew maybe? Hahaha...
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
He is not my only source. I also have Jewish confessions from Jew websites listed.
FinalWar1444 2 years ago
You mean hear-say evidences that are never going to be properly interrogated (or even better, that names are unknown), and which can't even pass on any legal court as even most distant fact?
Damn... I think you can find on google search now, about 10s of 1000s witness statements about how they saw god, and how that god had 'planted seed in their womb' which they got pregnant after...
Anything more?
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
@FinalWar1444
When the Soviets seized power, rightist propaganda called it a Jewish conspiracy, now they say that the Soviet Union killed more Jews than Hitler! If you're going to have delusions, at least make them somewhat cogent.
Ohh yeah, the White Armies were backed by the West, they massacred around 100,000 Jews. Lenin on the other hand was AGAINST ALL FORMS OF ANTI-SEMITISM!
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
The Cheka did not fight for the people. it was a sick and ruthless organization. Founded by a nut named Felix who admitted in 1919: "We stand for terror, this must be clearly understood." One good thing about Iron Felix -- he killed more Russians than any other Pole I know!!!!
chekist1917 2 years ago
Coming from a person who is quoting Dzerzhinsky out of context, picking out part of the quote to his liking.
Why don't you do us all a favor and quote fully? You either don't know the full quote (its something you remembered as parrot), or you intentionally won't post it?
Either way, I find your post to be amusing, and surely to the people visiting this video, so please continue to shower us with your pearls of 'knowledge' so that we can all laugh to the products of 'democratic' society.
TrueCommunist 2 years ago 2
@TrueCommunist "An officer must train his heart to be cruel." -Dzerzhinsky. Have you ever heard of canfor oil? It was used under Stalin to extract "confessions" from political dissedents. It isn't uncommon for people injected with canfor oil to break their own bones in the midst of the violent seizures. Please respond.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
i think you are a troll.
snakesnake4567 2 years ago
@chekist1917 Weren't Dzerzhinsky Jewish or partially Jewish like most of the Bolshevik rabble ?
fiaskolo 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov Actually the rich landowning farmers were all in Gulags, it was the State who hoarded food. Let's not forget that 30,000 Ukrainians died every single day, or what about the way entire villages simply dissappeared? Great victory for farmworkers? All the farmworkers were dead. And what propoganda have you been watching? If those 10 million people didn't starve to death then what happened to them? Tell me, have you ever lived under communism? Please respond, I'd like to discus this.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
I can see on your profile that you want to provoke communists, that smells like a genuine troll. But i can try to entertain you a little. I like it how you throw around historical concepts that you have no real knowledge about. The term "kulak" is just as empty for you as an empty can of pepsi. Same goes for things like "rich landowning peasants' or a "farmworker" or "communism". There are processes that exist during revolutions that you cant even contemplate.. things like class struggle/warfare
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov Okay, I have to say that I'm sorry for coming across as rude, you are entitled to your beleifs. I learned it the hard way that being too tough on my political opponenrts makes me look, well, rude. But, I would still like to have a legitimate, civilised discussion with you. The chekists were cruel and didn't promote political growth, it's very difficult to argue with that but if you have an arguement I'd love to hear it. Please reply.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Rude is an understatement.. with an attitude like that you could get beaten if you approach people like that in real life. I wonder how you approach your "communist" friends? it cant be with that attitude i am sure. But yea to your question: you use the word "cruel" because you have no understanding of the underlying social dynamics of the historical period. I wonder how someone would interpret American soldiers killing foreigners to maintain their "US security"? are they cruel or patriotic?
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov You are right, rude is an understatement. As for the underlying social dynamics, I find nothing complicated about a totalitarian State that ruled every part of it's citizens' lives. As for US soldiers killing foreigners for the sake of security, I admit our foreign policy is flawed, but only slightly. Atrocities occur in all wars, during the Normandy Invasion US soldiers murdered POWs, but this pales in comparison to atrocities committed by Soviet Secret Police, including the Cheka.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Well.. your description of Soviet society shows to me that you have no understanding of the social dynamics. You adhere to an historiographic image that is projected onto the USSR but it has no connection to reality (The "totalitarian paradigm"). The totalitarian paradigm tells us in the Cold War that all social movements in the USSR were slaved to the communist party and its totalitarian rule.. but it cant be further from the truth. There were mass movements in the USSR, independent groups etc.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
The totalitarian paradigm also ignores the real basis of Soviet power: the strength of working and peasant classes that supported it. They were very organised and had a will of their own. They tried to steer the Soviet government towards their class interests. And its exactly the basis of Soviet democracy. The people also demanded for the creation of strong police bodies that would crush foreign and internal opposition towards the Soviet Government. How far would you go to defend the US?
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
The USA also got strong police agencies to defend its capitalist state. They proved more than once that there are willing to go very far to defend its state. Why is this totally "alien" when a socialist country does the same thing? but the only difference is that the USSR "were" in real hard revolutionary and warlike conditions, while the CIA did things without such conditions (they just created them, 9-11 what else). And i wasnt talking about small US crimes but bigger ones.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
Things like: Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Bay of pigs invasion, the invasions of Iraq (1.5 million deaths because of boycot and occupation). Afghanistan, Vietnam (more than 10% of the entire population wiped out > more than 8 million deaths) etc. The list is so endless that i would even bother naming them all. Not to mention the poliitical and economical support that the USA gave to extreme right wing dictators in the world that killed off their populations. What the Cheka did was understandable..
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov
I'm sure you know that the Cheka imprisoned people for political crimes like speaking out against the State or conducting other acts interoperated as intending to “overthrow, subvert or undermine the Soviet power”.
In the United States, it is perfectly legal to be “political dissident” so long a you don’t resort to violent opposition.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Oh is it? America has thousands of political prisoners locked up for life. The whole Black Panther movement got annihilated because it was considered a "threat" to the US government. The movements bright and political leaders were even assassinated by the FBI in their own homes, while they were sleeping. Or they bought up lone junkies to do the work for them (because they were getting a bit unpopular). Actually Soviet "dissidents" only could have a max sentence of 15 years, no such things occur.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@MikaeleBaker
Err, the USSR was fighting a very violent opposition, the white armies were responsible for the massacre of 100,000 jews in the Crimea alone. Their crimes are on a scale much much worse. The same White Armies were supported by the West. When was the last time the United States was invaded by 14 other countries, an invasion which caused the deaths of 10 million of it's citizens?
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
@jumpnjza2 Did these White Armies still exist in 1953? Why wasn't the secret Police disbanded (or drastically reduced in size) when the violent threat was obviously gone?
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Why didnt the USA disband its armies after WW2 was over? The struggle was done right? they only kept increasing and increasing it. Enhancing all its capabilities. The USSR actually put more than 10 million people back into the reserves, releasing them from active duty. It showed all the posturing of a peaceful country. And the USA only responded with hostilities, spy games, even U2 flights over the USSR. They had reason to keep their secret police intact. Unless u live in an idealistic world.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov You're right, I have a poor analogy. However, the US Military, FBI and CIA were founded to combat outside threats as well as non-political crime. The Cheka was founded to combat interior threats from Tsarist remnants, which were gone after WW2. Aren't outside threats the job of the military and the SMERSH (Smert' Shpionam or "Death to Spies"), who I beleive actually were disbanded aftter WW2?
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
The formation of the Cheka was purely logical in its revolutionary history. It was there to safeguard the interests of the working class and the working class party ( the communist party). The conditions that plagued the USSR required the formation of safeguards for the revolution. This never ceased to be gone, since the threats continued to remain, as 1991 and the fall of the USSR have shown. (among others).
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov Under the Stalinist Stavka Directive No. 1919 it was the SMERSH branch of the NKVD who were responsible for counter intelligence, counter-terrorism (or "anti-partisan warfare" as it was called), capture of deserters and maintaining military disipline in the Red Army? Leaving the rest of the Secret Police to concentrate on strictly political, interior threats?
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Where did u find that? "Stalinist Stavka" that sounds like a very odd and a strange description. Smells like wikipedia honestly. Technically it was always the end responsibility of the NKVD over such matters.. and in the total end of the chain, the Soviet court system (yes it existed). But why are u bringing this up anyway?
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov I added the prefix "Stalinist" rather than saying "The Stavka Directive No. 1919 passed by Stalin" to conserve space.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
@MikaeleBaker
Obviously they didn't do much by the way of rooting out counter-revolutionaries in 1953.
jumpnjza2 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov Another thing, most of the time torture is not used. The few times it is used are to interrogate, not to extract false confessions. When torture, which I oppose, is used it is mild compared to most Chekist tortures and consist of humiliation, sleep deprivation and simulated drowning. I don’t condone these, they aren’t reliable anyway, but the fact is they are used and don’t compare to Chekist tortures
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
I wish this was true but it isnt. In the context of 9/11 and the hunt for "terrorism" America literally hunted and locked up thousands of people again. This time they locked them up without trial, no legal council, they were tortured, subjected to waterboarding, psychological torture. And they locked them up in secret CIA prison camps riddled over Europe (Reminds you of something?) And not to speak about the horrible crimes in Abu-Graib, that shocked the world. Chekists did nothing comparable.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov Yes, it does sound familiar, it sounds quite a bit like the MGB, which I'm sure you know is one of the Cheka's sucsessors. I don't condone torture, whether it be Chekist or FBI and I think 15 years working to death in a place where your breath freezes before it hits the ground puts Chekists at at least an equal level to the crimes of the FBI.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
The Cheka, NKVD, MGB or KGB were all childsplay compared to the CIA and the FBI during the Cold War. I dont have to remind you who "won" the Cold War right? The CIA/NSA and the dozens of agencies they have, all worked together to eliminate the faked communist threat, inside and waaay outside their borders. They killed millions of people in these "containment policies". Direct and indirectly through the work of fascist dictators.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
You call 15 years of max sentence in a labour camp bad? you must have some Cold War vision of such camps because most people were released before their sentence was done even. Even the so called "famous Soviet dissidents" were released, and when they were fired before from their working positions (like teacher), they could get their old job back after they served their sentence! in America a prisoner cant even vote in some cases. Talk about honesty? Working to death is a mere slander.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
People in America can get 300 years in prison, or even the deathsentence. Such sentences were not given lightly in the USSR.
I am not blinded enough to call FBI entirely evil, I consider the fact that in the end they have to defend the capitalist state as something bad. I would never claim that everyone that the FBI arrests.. is innocent. Something you would easily claim about the Cheka. That shows the deluded aspects of people that are brainwashed by Cold War anti-communism.
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
@Okhlopkov I thought they were only released after the Reforms of Premier Nikita Segeyavich Kruschev, who publicly condemned Stalin's actions against political prisoners and his personality cult in his famous Secret Speech, which was only retracted after it took full affect and was likely influenced by high ranking KGB officers who to stay in power, engineered the Hungarian Revolution. After the demonstrating that new equipment was needed and the Army to contiue operations in Eastern Europe.
MikaeleBaker 1 year ago
Why are you saying this? Its basically a recycling of the standard totalitarian paradigm. Yes i know all about Kruschevs "secret speech".
Okhlopkov 1 year ago
Those 10 million deaths are a fabrication, hell the whole "Ukranian Famine" was a nazi started myth before the invasion of the USSR! they started that myth so they could "liberate" the Ukraine, a wealthy country in resources. Its actually the same kind of demonisations that America does about the Taliban and Saddam before those invasions. They are Satan themselves apparantly, before they get 'liberated'. This is an old imperialist trick.
Okhlopkov 3 years ago 7
The Nazis were not in ukraine in the 1930's and the famine was already listed in news papers in the USA. So nice try communist !
FinalWar1444 2 years ago
When you read in newspapers or watch on TV claim that Coca Cola is the best drinking potion, its definitive and absolute proof that it is?
I mean... even the most gullible brainwash parrot wouldn't be that limited.
Or maybe we should additionally ask William Randolph Hearst, the great Nazi sympathizer and US news magnate about his sources about this, because apparently he was the only one broadcasting this propaganda... i mean 'news' to the public... Sieg Heil?
TrueCommunist 2 years ago
Dzierżyński was psycho butcher and traitor, it was so touching momenth when i saw how crowd of casual people demolish his monument in Warsaw 1989... ah, good old times.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
Hero for one side, traitor for the other...
Don't forget, casual crowds don't initiate destruction, but the people who flame the crowds do. Meaning, don't flatter yourself...
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
What so heroic he ever done? You know what`s heroism? Read about Witold Pilecki, or if it really needs to be leftist hero... Kościuszko.
Meaning... isn`t it an irony that the mass movement (10mio!!!) of hungry workers destroyed communism in Poland? Felix was symbolic, fake "hero", like almost everything in communist "paradise", fake and forced.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
Creating, managing, spending part of his life to Commission for fighting efficiently against Sabotage and Counter-revolution, that is heroic in every communist and intelligence circles.
Calm down, and wake up from your hyper-forced-dreaming.
'Communism' in Poland? That boy, was nothing more then capitalism, which have, after the 'fall', misled the workers that they could have some of the fruits west has. Nothing more then changing the wallet, which is even more empty. Reason is not prime there
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Rather secret political police, with unspecyfied privillages.
Dreaming?
Even now, there`s no "pure" capitalism as well. Empty you say... in communism there should be even no wallets, but that`s me who`s dreamer. Dreamers with fanatic sacrifice made a nightmare from a decent people lives, how many millions payed the biggest price for realisation of someones sick dream? Like colectyvisation...
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
First, learn to write english.
Second, 'Secret police', 'pure capitalism' you sound more like some poor-brainwashed student then a great Polish 16-18ct monarchist.
Thoughts from sociology aren't your strong side I see... No wonder you don't understand anything connected to it.
You better goto your dreams of ol' good commonwealth, and leave the living to the living.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
That`s what i mean by agressive fanatism, or just radicalism.
I`m not monarchist, nor sociologist, i don`t even have a degree in English, but at least i`m not thief, nor murder, unlike bolsheviks. Bolsheviks haven`t had any democratic mandate to rule anyway, they just took power by force.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
Took it away from bourgeoisie. And they have taken parts (its stealing to them, of course) from bourgeoisie, and killed the aggressive capitalists. Unlike capitalists, who steal and kill all, even of their own kind.
Thats my point. From a look of a free working man, Communists are heroes, while from the looks of the present ruling classes (bourg.) they are the enemy.
And don't talk about democracy, if you have no clue in it. We only have democracy of the bourgoiesie class...
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
P.S.
Of course you are not monarchist, thats was two edged metaphor, implying on your blinding ignorance, and uselessness of your statements.
Do you even know history? Or are you not even that related?
What are you then?
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Does it matter who am i? Yes, i know history and i know how the utopic ideas of Marks and Engels were realeised... fortunatelly it`s only history, tragic social experiment.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
Yes, it matters, cause it creates a credibility in your text. (Be that your own or society's creation)
As I stated, 'tragic' to some and 'heroic' to the many.
Utopia? 'Ideas' of Marx and Engels? Now, thats uneducated. Not to say unhistorical.
I asked you what you are, only cause I can't see any coherency in your writings. Meaning, not even you know what are you saying, let alone someone else.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Were 10mio of Ukrainian and Russian starving farmers those "burgoise"?
Lenin just lost the only one free elections in Russia and started his "bolshevik terror" with Felix, that was what i mean by lacking social mandate.
Takeing saomeones property (like food from farmers) is just steling and nothing else.
Democracy is not the proletaryat dictature or bolshevik terror, that is what i know for sure. And yes, originally democracy in Greece was reserved only for some group of citisens.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
Starving? Soviets took from the rich who were hoarding, destroying and hiding food from the rest of the population, who couldn't pay for food. Soviets took, and killed those who got violent, from the rich farmers (kulaks). And gave it to the rest of the starving country. Not to say that during those years of famine, they had 4y of droughts, and not to say that Ukraine was the 'feeding' ground of the USSR (more then 70%).
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
And, now, YOU are switching the blame of those rich bourgeoiesie farmers to the new free Soviet State! State which was under constant attacks from the whole bourgoiesie world from its beginning who only brought famine, death and misery to the Soviet State.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Soviet state wasn`t free if farmer couldn`t have there even his self erected food... not to mention "bolshevik terror" of Felix and Lenin (who lost elections). How come that before bolsheviks started to steal there was never such a horrible disaster in Ukraine, which, as you admited, got great agriculture?
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
'wasn't free' Could you really explain this dogmatic statement?
'self erected food'!? Collective farms were majority only after the middle 1930'. Before you only had NEP, small farmers...
Lost election!? Which election, kid? Are you a bit shaken in the head? Maybe that in 1991,
when about vast majority of the Soviet citizens voted for keeping the SU, and they did the opposite?
Your brain sure is foggy... Greatest
famines were during Tsar (last years)!
LEARN more history.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
And when you see, all those brave, heroic men and women who fought for that Soviet, against all those odds, and still remained humans in dignity and actions, you can put your shovinistic heros aside, for a that is heroism and selflessness of the working class. Many times before it was manifested, and it many times after, it will be. And people never forget them, like they never had.
You know... you can lie to the others, but, what pains me is, that you are lying to yourself, not aware of it yet
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Like which "chavinistic" heroes? Kościuszko?? Even Piłsudski was socialist... and put real chavinists out of the real politics, but not murdered as your "heroes". Yes, verry humanitarian were especially purges of Stalin in which died whole KPP (made of SDKPiL of Felix etc.), terror of NKVD (sucessor of "czeka") and so on. What about gulags?
And who is lieing? I`v hold, just for fun, a collection of "history" books made by soviet "science" institute under J. M. Żukow. Verry interesting lecture.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
P.S.
For someone who has no clue in sociology (philosophy), you 'present' much...
I wanted to say only one thing, people may be tainted to hate those 'leaders', but later when next wave of revolutions (very broadly said) splash this world, and same people (same 'jobs':Cheka and 'doings':removing capitalist) take over roles of 'leaders', people will cheer them with with all their might...
I don't even care if people love Stalin,Dzerzhinsky... they will love the next ones. That is what 'matters'.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Sure, sure... or they`ll just made people to love them, otherwise bullet in the back of the head... like in Katyń. In the case of murdering everone who doesn`t love... yes, they could be "trully" loved.
Face it, one elite was changed for another, Tzar was changed on first secrettary and only decent people suffered the same as before. It was just FAKE!
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
No wonder, you don't grasp it. I hope your day-dreaming is giving you much happiness as you 'claim'.
Ah Katyn... you know, where that Nazis or even Soviets, I always like to see Polish officers dead, in that case, any officer of bourgoiesie army. And if you stand and think that more then half of the world is anti-bourgoiesie, it tells in levels doesn't it? Not to say, communist supported.
Maybe... its not a world's problem, maybe its just a 'minority' problem, your problem?
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
You`r primitive man and i think that we should end this conversation as it only makes you to feel anger and frustration becouse the "majority" lost. You`r not even bothering yourselve to think who was majority if bolsheviks lost the only one free elections in Russia.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
You obviously understood what I was saying, and now you try, again, to blame someone else (me) for your 'retreat'.
Now, as I said, goto your history books, and reread (if you ever read it) that part of history... Read it and try to understand, I know that its going to be hard at first for you, but you will make it at some point.. Then come back here to discuss what parts you find it hard to understand!
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
Ok let us see:
1st Pilsudski who worked for monarchy in exile was a socialist? Who spied for it against its own country?
2th I really don't know who/what is 'J. M. Żukow'? Please write in Russian or English.
3nd, I guess, your 'heros' showered British and Nazis with flowers in the battlefield, cause you say they are not murderers...
4rd Shotting in the back of the head is the most humane way to die. Unlike all other countries, which many still had execution with 'shallow' gallows.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
5th Gulags=Prisons, and if you compare now, that in US during 1 year, it holds 7mil.
prisoners, while during USSR period of 1924-1950', total of passed trough gulag procedure were less then 7mil. All prime numbers of Yeltsin's Duma.
6th I haven't answered to number of your provocations, only cause I've did that in past posts. I don't want to waste time repeating it for 100 time, and you ignoring it.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
So you say that 10mio Ukrainians were those "evil kulaks"? It could be just funny, if not the mortality caused by food stealing. Face the truth, stop listening to the soviet lies, it was nothing else but sick idea to steal the food and then to reglament it... what kind of "economy" is that? Same goes for north Corea even now, deadly, unefficient and just unnatural systhem.
mikolajoskierko 3 years ago
IF you read what I posted, you will see that those '10milion' dead were the results of famine caused drought but amplified 100 times by KULAKS cause of their hoarding and sabotaging.
And you AGAIN talk about economy, sociology, and ground them as your text foundations...
Maybe you should do a reality check on capitalism?
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
I wanna wath this movie!!! where can I find a good copy???
ZunigaEspinoza 3 years ago
Look on the internet/torrents. But if you want a DVD copy, I presume that you will have to dig in the Russian E-stores sites.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
ok... i will see..
ZunigaEspinoza 3 years ago
glory to the soviets!
starna666 3 years ago
It makes me sad to think that USSR fell,
all that death and sacrafice in the revolution and industralisation to make one of the greatest super powers the world has ever seen, and for what?
lenin will be turning in his grave.
Im glad he wasnt alive to whitness that dissaster.
BrownSimulator 3 years ago
Forward!
sharkonesega 3 years ago
The Cheka were heroic. They did a nice job crushing the enemies of the people. Sadly, some remained, but they still did kill many.
StalinLeninMao 3 years ago
very nice i must see this film.
what is the name of the movie?
fentagin1917 3 years ago
At home among strangers,
a stranger among his own or Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих.
TrueCommunist 3 years ago
awesome scene! must get this film :D
Okhlopkov 3 years ago 2