Can anyone prove using science the claim that "Only that which can be proven by science is true?"
No, nobody can prove that claim within the bounds of science, because that would commit the classic logical fallacy known as "circular reasoning."
Therefore, that claim is a philosophical claim, not a scientific one. It oversteps the bounds of science and enters into the realm of philosophy, so to put it forth as a truth defeats its very essence.
@TheGregHafer "the new testament was not written in the first century"
Dear God ... ARE YOU SERIOUS??? You do realize that Paul died 66 ad and several of his epistles are universally held to be authentic,right? You do realize we have a portion of the gospel of john from 110 ad,right?
"my molecular biologist friend creates life from non-life for a living"
when cliffe says at @ 7:32 ' I can't show you that someone is inspired by God' WTF christians are inspired by jesus, who is god, to love thy neibour and by God in the old testermeny by abiding to and living out the 10 commandments (given by God to Moses). Isnt that being inspired by God. BTW im christian but i dont understand that statement lol
@supercrevolution do you know the difference between judgmentalism which is self righteous and arrogant and pointing out what the Bible says?God is the judge I'm merely passing on the message.Jesus had a word for people who purport to follow Him and act contradictorily to His teachings.It starts with H
no matter what denomination you are, Cliffe is wonderful on the fundementals of the absoluteTruth of who/Who and what we are here for, (and the humble patience to deal with this young girl:-)
@RayKalmNiam I will PM you with a more detailed answer if you like but basically Muslims do not "believe" in Jesus they simply state that He was a real person. There is a computer in front of me, i need no faith nor believe in it, my computer simply is. Everyone is aware that Jesus (Yeshua bar Joseph) was real, so simply naming Jesus is no sign of belief.
Believe comes in when we accept His claim to be God, when you know Him personally and accept the eyewitness accounts.
@KiwiChristian You're wrong dear. Us Muslims love Jesus. We can't be a Muslim without considering him a great person and prophet. We believe in his miracles, and his god given divine powers.
Jesus never claimed to be God, not even in the Bible. If you could only ask Allah to guide you to the straight path.. he will.
@RayKalmNiam You and i both know that Jesus claimed a number of time to be God, loud and clear. Maybe its just that you have never taken the time to read the bible for yourself.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him...
Let me ask you this: If Jesus never claimed to be God, then why was He sentenced to death?" (Even the Qu'ran states He was sentenced to death)
@KiwiChristian There are also plenty of places in the Bible where he says the exact opposite; worship the creator, not me.
I and the Father are one - is this the closest verse you can find? It comes pretty close, but it ca also mean he was a man of God. There isn't a single verse, not a single, where Jesus says "I am God, worship me." in the Bible.
@RayKalmNiam Thats a good point. Jesus says the way to God/Heaven is through him, what does that mean? That could mean by following his example. Buddhists actually claim Jesus is a perfect example of a devout Buddhist (i.e. enlightened). For myself I would have to classify myself as a Deist, as I am 100% certain their is a god but beyond that have no certainties. Your comment is something I think about a lot and am currently re reading both the Bible and Quran with that in mind.
"There are also plenty of places in the Bible where he says the exact opposite; worship the creator, not me." - Which verse are you referring to?
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God..." Verse 14: "And the Word BECAME FLESH and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus was God.
@KiwiChristian To continue, Jesus was sentenced to death because, legally, it was because he was a political radical, stirring up the people against the establishment. He flouted religious laws, and while the civil authority (Pilate) could not find any particular wrong doing, the Jewish authorities were insistent.
Many other prophets were killed too I believe.
Do you know that the Bible mentions Muhammad by name? "Jesus" mentions him by name.
Jesus said not to worship Him on earth because on earth He was mortal man. We do not worship mortal men, as other religions do, we worship the risen Christ. Had Jesus not been resurrected we would not worship Him. A man if a fool if he deifies mortal men.
So your claim that Jesus was executed for being an upstart; where exactly is this information recorded?
@KiwiChristian That information is a fact. Search it up. Jesus never asked to be worshiped, at ALL.
Muhammad is mentioned in songs of solomon 5:16: His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
Muhammad here is translated to altogether lovely. In the original Hebrew version, it clearly says Muhammadim.
@RayKalmNiam wow - Sgs5 have you read the Song of Solomon?
The same word occurs again in Hosea9:6,16; 1Kings20:6; Lamentations1:10,11; 2:4; Isaiah64:10; 2Chronicles36:19; Ezekiel24:16,21,25
In the last passage(Ezekiel24:16"the desire of thine eyes")it is applied to a woman, Ezekiel's wife!
Muslims NEED to find Muhammad mentioned because the Qur'an claims so. The Song of Songs is neither part of the Torah nor the Gospel so this verse wouldn't help at all to satisfy this demand of the Qur'an
@RayKalmNiam I sent you a PM and you diddnt reply. Seems all you want to do in make unfounded statements in comment boxes rather then having a real discussion about it.
Answer me this:
- Have you personally read Song of Solomon?
- Do you know that the same word is used to name Ezekiel's wife?
- Do you know that you must find Muhammad's name in the bible because without it Qu'ran is incorrect.
@RayKalmNiam Maybe you could start by answering some of my questions?
As to Song of Solomon, there is no Sgs 3:16!!! Chapter 3 ends at verse 11. If you mean Sgs 5:16 then read the whole chapter and you will read about a naked woman searching the city for her unmarried lover...
I am sorry kid, but you are only passing on what you have heard from others without having read any of this for yourself. Muhammad is not named in anywhere in the bible.
@KiwiChristian That's what you think. The English Bible completely torn apart the word "Mohammad". In the original Bible, the Hebrew version, Mohammad is mentioned by name.
Type in "Mohammad in the Bible" on YouTube and click the first link.
@RayKalmNiam Im not using an English bible i am using the Hebrew text. Plus there is nothing wrong with any English version of the bible, it all comes from the same Hebrew, Jewish original source.
And i do not use YouTube to find out real truths about the One True God, i use a library for that.
You have no answers to my questions.
You are grasping at straws from a book you have never once read for yourself.
Bottom line is; You are in error here. You should have stuck to the passage in John.
@RayKalmNiam Dear, tell me this, why does it matter what my gender is?
Well the bible is not a book but many books/eyewitness testimonies canonized together. There is one source for each book of the bible. Each source (New Testament) has hundreds upon hundreds of collaboration manuscripts and from that it is given to people all over the world in there own language.
But this question can simply be answered by looking online.
Now i have answered your questions, will you now answer mine?
@KiwiChristian Because I'm curious to know whether I'm arguing with a male or female.
The Bible has many version, 16-17 to be more specific. Would you follow a book which has 16-17 versions of itself? How do you know which is more accurate?
The Qu'ran on the other hand is only one of it's kind. Many translations, but one source.
I'll answer your question, but rephrase it for me because you get too vague.
@RayKalmNiam This is hardly an argument, am i simply correcting your misguided claims.
Any manuscript copy that you refer too all come from the same unique source. You need to do you own research and come up with you own original thoughts. Start with codex sinaiticus...
- Have you personally read the Song of Solomon?
- Do you know that the same word is used to name Ezekiel's wife?
- Do you know that you must find Muhammad's name in the bible because without it Qu'ran is incorrect?
@RayKalmNiam you keep saying truth such as you believe it to being... there are so many flaws in Islam and much of it does not even make sense. You are wrong, you have been brainwashed and the only way to accurately define God is through Jesus Christ.
@RayKalmNiam If u think that John 14 is talking about Muhammad u are a fool.
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— "
You have missed all the text before & all the text after. This is how blind faithless men read God's word. They twist it to suit themselves. Dont worry, men have been doing this through-out time & will continue to do so.
I will PM you will details. Trying to discuss religion with a 500 character limit is foolish.
@RayKalmNiam k, mate, first of all: the only way you reason is by providing your own mind with falsifying evidence which does'nt even make sense, You are always contradicting things in your own mind which WILL be the downfall of yourself. sorry to say but religion is pathetic and the only way to God is through Jesus Christ.
The only thing missing from this bitch is a "SilenceI keel you!"
bobbytv316 2 months ago
@topfifth99 w w w muslimhope com
Brucev7 5 months ago
this girl is a loser. she is blind deaf and dumb. this is what islam does to the young and foolish...
ngimangi 8 months ago
lol, follow me to scientology. haha
YahwehtheLORD 11 months ago
This is like listening to two kids arguing on what kind of cookies Santa Claus likes best (Christianity vs Islam) love it! @ 3:53
Cougar139tweak 1 year ago
Can anyone prove using science the claim that "Only that which can be proven by science is true?"
No, nobody can prove that claim within the bounds of science, because that would commit the classic logical fallacy known as "circular reasoning."
Therefore, that claim is a philosophical claim, not a scientific one. It oversteps the bounds of science and enters into the realm of philosophy, so to put it forth as a truth defeats its very essence.
In short, the claim is a self-refuting argument.
Purushadasa 1 year ago
@TheGregHafer "the new testament was not written in the first century"
Dear God ... ARE YOU SERIOUS??? You do realize that Paul died 66 ad and several of his epistles are universally held to be authentic,right? You do realize we have a portion of the gospel of john from 110 ad,right?
"my molecular biologist friend creates life from non-life for a living"
FACEPALM.
"I`ll stop there"
Ya ... please do.
CasperTheMeanieGhost 1 year ago
I lol'd at 0:29 - 32
lookatmepleasesir 1 year ago
Comment removed
lookatmepleasesir 1 year ago
when cliffe says at @ 7:32 ' I can't show you that someone is inspired by God' WTF christians are inspired by jesus, who is god, to love thy neibour and by God in the old testermeny by abiding to and living out the 10 commandments (given by God to Moses). Isnt that being inspired by God. BTW im christian but i dont understand that statement lol
franklowie 1 year ago
@franklowie
???? please try that again in ENGLISH
tharip 1 year ago
@franklowie if you are christian your shouldn't be saying WTF
jmanexpress 1 year ago
@jmanexpress
Judge not lest ye be judged
supercrevolution 1 year ago
@supercrevolution do you know the difference between judgmentalism which is self righteous and arrogant and pointing out what the Bible says?God is the judge I'm merely passing on the message.Jesus had a word for people who purport to follow Him and act contradictorily to His teachings.It starts with H
jmanexpress 1 year ago
it looks so cold.
wutangbiz 1 year ago
no matter what denomination you are, Cliffe is wonderful on the fundementals of the absoluteTruth of who/Who and what we are here for, (and the humble patience to deal with this young girl:-)
se7ve7ns 1 year ago
Comment removed
se7ve7ns 1 year ago
I think this guy needed that comic relief @7:14 in dealing with that painfully irrational and argumentative Muslim woman.
germanicelt 1 year ago
i really like the way he is consistent with his point of view. Very good way to discuss Jesus with a Muslim.
KiwiChristian 2 years ago
@KiwiChristian How so? We Muslims believe in Jesus.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam I will PM you with a more detailed answer if you like but basically Muslims do not "believe" in Jesus they simply state that He was a real person. There is a computer in front of me, i need no faith nor believe in it, my computer simply is. Everyone is aware that Jesus (Yeshua bar Joseph) was real, so simply naming Jesus is no sign of belief.
Believe comes in when we accept His claim to be God, when you know Him personally and accept the eyewitness accounts.
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian You're wrong dear. Us Muslims love Jesus. We can't be a Muslim without considering him a great person and prophet. We believe in his miracles, and his god given divine powers.
Jesus never claimed to be God, not even in the Bible. If you could only ask Allah to guide you to the straight path.. he will.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam You and i both know that Jesus claimed a number of time to be God, loud and clear. Maybe its just that you have never taken the time to read the bible for yourself.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him...
Let me ask you this: If Jesus never claimed to be God, then why was He sentenced to death?" (Even the Qu'ran states He was sentenced to death)
So why was He?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian There are also plenty of places in the Bible where he says the exact opposite; worship the creator, not me.
I and the Father are one - is this the closest verse you can find? It comes pretty close, but it ca also mean he was a man of God. There isn't a single verse, not a single, where Jesus says "I am God, worship me." in the Bible.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam Thats a good point. Jesus says the way to God/Heaven is through him, what does that mean? That could mean by following his example. Buddhists actually claim Jesus is a perfect example of a devout Buddhist (i.e. enlightened). For myself I would have to classify myself as a Deist, as I am 100% certain their is a god but beyond that have no certainties. Your comment is something I think about a lot and am currently re reading both the Bible and Quran with that in mind.
lion575 2 months ago
@RayKalmNiam
"There are also plenty of places in the Bible where he says the exact opposite; worship the creator, not me." - Which verse are you referring to?
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God..." Verse 14: "And the Word BECAME FLESH and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus was God.
BassP86 1 month ago
@KiwiChristian To continue, Jesus was sentenced to death because, legally, it was because he was a political radical, stirring up the people against the establishment. He flouted religious laws, and while the civil authority (Pilate) could not find any particular wrong doing, the Jewish authorities were insistent.
Many other prophets were killed too I believe.
Do you know that the Bible mentions Muhammad by name? "Jesus" mentions him by name.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam Your demonstrating all the mainstream Islamic misconceptions towards Christ.
Mark 8:27-30 please read it
Jesus said not to worship Him on earth because on earth He was mortal man. We do not worship mortal men, as other religions do, we worship the risen Christ. Had Jesus not been resurrected we would not worship Him. A man if a fool if he deifies mortal men.
So your claim that Jesus was executed for being an upstart; where exactly is this information recorded?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian That information is a fact. Search it up. Jesus never asked to be worshiped, at ALL.
Muhammad is mentioned in songs of solomon 5:16: His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
Muhammad here is translated to altogether lovely. In the original Hebrew version, it clearly says Muhammadim.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam wow - Sgs5 have you read the Song of Solomon?
The same word occurs again in Hosea9:6,16; 1Kings20:6; Lamentations1:10,11; 2:4; Isaiah64:10; 2Chronicles36:19; Ezekiel24:16,21,25
In the last passage(Ezekiel24:16"the desire of thine eyes")it is applied to a woman, Ezekiel's wife!
Muslims NEED to find Muhammad mentioned because the Qur'an claims so. The Song of Songs is neither part of the Torah nor the Gospel so this verse wouldn't help at all to satisfy this demand of the Qur'an
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam - Hebrew - mahamaddim means "delights" or "delightfulnesses"
The name Muhammad might share the same root but this is only a root, not a name...
Grasping at straws...
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian Nope. So, who is foretold here? Muhammad of course. Muhammad is Muhammadim in Hebrew. Accept that fact dear Christian brother.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam I sent you a PM and you diddnt reply. Seems all you want to do in make unfounded statements in comment boxes rather then having a real discussion about it.
Answer me this:
- Have you personally read Song of Solomon?
- Do you know that the same word is used to name Ezekiel's wife?
- Do you know that you must find Muhammad's name in the bible because without it Qu'ran is incorrect.
Do you have any answers to these questions?
And do you really want to discuss this properly?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian I did reply. 've read it all, but since I don't have much time to reply, my reply will be short.
I was referring to.. 3:16 Songs of Solo I think it was. Jesus clearly mentions Muhammad by name here. What's so hard to believe about this?
And I do follow Jesus. Better than you Christians. Us Muslims are more Christians than you since we follow his message! That there is no God but God!
"Say: Your God is but one God, there is no God but He, most Gracious, most Merciful."
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam Maybe you could start by answering some of my questions?
As to Song of Solomon, there is no Sgs 3:16!!! Chapter 3 ends at verse 11. If you mean Sgs 5:16 then read the whole chapter and you will read about a naked woman searching the city for her unmarried lover...
I am sorry kid, but you are only passing on what you have heard from others without having read any of this for yourself. Muhammad is not named in anywhere in the bible.
Where does Jesus name Muhammad?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian That's what you think. The English Bible completely torn apart the word "Mohammad". In the original Bible, the Hebrew version, Mohammad is mentioned by name.
Type in "Mohammad in the Bible" on YouTube and click the first link.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam Im not using an English bible i am using the Hebrew text. Plus there is nothing wrong with any English version of the bible, it all comes from the same Hebrew, Jewish original source.
And i do not use YouTube to find out real truths about the One True God, i use a library for that.
You have no answers to my questions.
You are grasping at straws from a book you have never once read for yourself.
Bottom line is; You are in error here. You should have stuck to the passage in John.
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian Dear, tell me this. First of all, are you a women?
Secondly, how many Bibles are there?
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam Dear, tell me this, why does it matter what my gender is?
Well the bible is not a book but many books/eyewitness testimonies canonized together. There is one source for each book of the bible. Each source (New Testament) has hundreds upon hundreds of collaboration manuscripts and from that it is given to people all over the world in there own language.
But this question can simply be answered by looking online.
Now i have answered your questions, will you now answer mine?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian Because I'm curious to know whether I'm arguing with a male or female.
The Bible has many version, 16-17 to be more specific. Would you follow a book which has 16-17 versions of itself? How do you know which is more accurate?
The Qu'ran on the other hand is only one of it's kind. Many translations, but one source.
I'll answer your question, but rephrase it for me because you get too vague.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RayKalmNiam This is hardly an argument, am i simply correcting your misguided claims.
Any manuscript copy that you refer too all come from the same unique source. You need to do you own research and come up with you own original thoughts. Start with codex sinaiticus...
- Have you personally read the Song of Solomon?
- Do you know that the same word is used to name Ezekiel's wife?
- Do you know that you must find Muhammad's name in the bible because without it Qu'ran is incorrect?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian May you learn the truth.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam So after a month you just show up again, ok.
So, dear friend, please tell me what this truth is?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@KiwiChristian The truth is Islam.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam right... So what makes Islam the truth and (by way of elimination) everything else, not the truth?
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KiwiChristian What I just explained to you.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam you keep saying truth such as you believe it to being... there are so many flaws in Islam and much of it does not even make sense. You are wrong, you have been brainwashed and the only way to accurately define God is through Jesus Christ.
YahwehtheLORD 11 months ago
@YahwehtheLORD And you're not brainwashed?
The Bible has flaws. The Qu'ran corrects the Bible.
RayKalmNiam 11 months ago
@RayKalmNiam Lets all thank the qu'ran and mohammed for jihad
Lets all thank Jesus for saving us
camthejock 8 months ago
@camthejock Jesus gave us Jihad too, dear. Jihad means holy struggle, mistranslated into holy war often.
RayKalmNiam 8 months ago
@RayKalmNiam Thank mohammed for murdering others, and marrying 11 wives including a little girl
camthejock 8 months ago
@camthejock What have the teachings of our beloved prophet Jesus thaught you?
RayKalmNiam 8 months ago
@RayKalmNiam Jesus taught not to kill others, but mohammed didnt. You should read your qu'ran; chapter 9 verse 29. its where muslims get jihad.
camthejock 8 months ago
@camthejock There's nothing wrong in that verse; read the verses before and after.
RayKalmNiam 2 months ago
@RayKalmNiam there are 3 versions in arabic of the Qu'ran. In the original arabic! And each version is different Which one do you follow?
ngimangi 1 year ago
@ngimangi There's only one version of the Qu'ran. IN the original Arabic.
RayKalmNiam 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam you are mistaken..sadly.. there are 3!!!!
ngimangi 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam If u think that John 14 is talking about Muhammad u are a fool.
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— "
You have missed all the text before & all the text after. This is how blind faithless men read God's word. They twist it to suit themselves. Dont worry, men have been doing this through-out time & will continue to do so.
I will PM you will details. Trying to discuss religion with a 500 character limit is foolish.
KiwiChristian 1 year ago
@RayKalmNiam k, mate, first of all: the only way you reason is by providing your own mind with falsifying evidence which does'nt even make sense, You are always contradicting things in your own mind which WILL be the downfall of yourself. sorry to say but religion is pathetic and the only way to God is through Jesus Christ.
YahwehtheLORD 11 months ago
@YahwehtheLORD Religion is pathetic yet the only way to God is through Jesus Christ? You're first to accuse.
Jesus is one of the only way towards God. Mohammad is another. Moses is yet another.
RayKalmNiam 11 months ago