i have to agree with you on this. the TPM and AOTC were pretty average, but the third one was actually quite decent. i never really though of the "no" scene, until now, and that's because i just never noticed anything wrong with it. i thin you are right though in that it was a reflection of the previous movies, and in that way is quite poetic and artistic even.
George Lucas is the master of "Ruining things". Sorry, but I hate this dude. His changes of the original Star Wars is so baffling to me and I don't understand it. Yes, Harry S. Plinkett is my Star Wars God!
Now explain Lucas changing Boba Fett's original voice in Empire beside for the simple fact that Boba Fett is a perfect clone of Jango Fett. This really pissed me off because A. I'm obviously a Boba Fett fan and B. Jason Wingreen's original ice-cold delivery of Fett's four lines was FLAWLESS. Which lends to the old adage: IF IT AIN'T BROKE, THEN DON'T FIX IT. Besides the new Jabba scene in A New Hope and the new Emperor scene in Empire there really hasn't been anything else wrong with the OT.
Hmmm...I like your argument about Vader coming back from the Dark Side and reacting to Palpatine torturing Luke the same way he reacted when Palpatine told Anakin he killed Padme. It makes a lot of sense because in crying "Nooooooo!!", Vader is reclaiming his humanity. On the other hand I remember the first time I saw Jedi and how surprised I was when Vader openly attacked his master to save his son's life. By having him watch Luke silently, it really made you wonder where his loyalty was.
George Lucas has ALWAYS said, even from Day 1, that he wasn't 100% happy with the movies the way they were, but, at the time, he was too restricted by lack of then-present technology, costs, etc., but had to make due at the time. And it was still AMAZING & people had never seen anything like it. I can understand how he'd want to go back & make the corrections the way he wanted. He's just being a perfectionist in his mind, but the problem is some.fans liked it as was anyway. So, here we are now.
I remember back in the day when a lot of people complained that the Ewoks DIDN'T blink. George waited for the right technology to come along and went back and fixed that. Now people complain because they DO blink and I bet some were those people that complained when they didn't blink. To me, it just makes them more realistic now. Like you, I feel there are some changes that might not have been the best ideas and others that make perfect sense.
I see your point about about the whole 'nooooo' however you are missing something, Luke saw the good in Vader via his connection with the force, he even says 'I sense good in you' therefore we do not need to show Vader's conflict any more than that, if Luke 'his son' can feel it, then we know it must be there, his choice at the end justifies that, what makes Darth Vader the villain he is today is his dominating silence, we're not use to him being emotional because as Obi-Wan....
@Timelord6661 ...said in Return of the Jedi 'he's more machine than man' he's not supposed to be emotional. His tragedy derives from the loss of humanity. When you set up a character with certain traits, changes in character have to feel natural, and Darth Vader shouting no in such as stupid way is not natural, if anything it's incredibly contrived, the difference between that and scene about power converters is that that scene fleshes out Luke's life in a subtle way, it gives the audience a...
@Timelord6661 ....glimpse of an ordinary activity Luke does in the world that he lives in, it makes him more relatable because we can all relate to the idea of having fun with friends but having to do work. As silly as it sounds, it adds to the character and give us a glimpse of what his life is like, which is harmless. Although Ewoks blinking isn't something to get pissed off with, it was something that was completely unnecessary and in no way justified, it wasted money and it adds nothing.
@Timelord6661 ...One last point to make Star Wars is in the library of congress as a piece of cinematic history, I think that's enough of a reason to see it as much more than simply Lucas's story, it made cinematic history in so many ways morally it doesn't belong to him, and even though legally it does, it doesn't mean he should have done it, what pisses people off about these changes is that it adds nothing, and is mostly completely unnecessary, it also only causes confusion.
who likes "cool stuff." Get over it fuck head they make whole movies in CGI nowadays. And all kidding aside Hayden Anakin never fell to the dark side..... "he was tricked." Besides he is a whiny bitch and is one of the primary reasons i don't consider the prequels "Star Wars."
Are you a fucking idiot? Did you say you like the added scene with Jabba the Hut in "A New Hope"? That stupid fucking scene doesn't even make any sense. Jabba sends someone to kill Han Solo and then he just has a casual conversation with him? It doesn't even make any sense... Han Solo steps on his tail????? Disregarding the fact of how stupid he looks with his big pussy cat eyes, the scene is completely out of place. Oh wait..... you just like it because you are one of those stupid dumbasses
But we were infromed by Luke when he said that he could 'feel' Vader's goodness. Was there really a need to highlight Vader's remorse in such a way?
Furthermore, I would hazard that we aren't complacent with James Earl Jones' voice merely beause we grew up with it, but because it's so much more kickass!
Personally, I'm not offended by the Hayden edit at the end of Jedi simply out of loyalty to Shaw. I'm offended because Christensen wasn't there to complete the arc. He just isn't Vader to me
Only Luke could sense the last good Ember in Vader. Not The Audience, Not The Emperor, not even Yoda. THAT ist one of the most interesting facts in the original series, in my opinion.
Vader ought to be Bad to the bone. He was all that bad to the very end and I can tell, that I was surprided when vader finally showed his better side, by killing his master. I wouldn't be surprised, if Vader showed some of his good side to the audience before.
And i'm sorry but everytime i think about Hayden Christensen's superimposed smug face in Return of The Jedi, i die a little inside. Stop shoving the Prequels in our face, Lucas! We're trying to forget those movies!
Lucas can change the movies all he wants... AS LONG AS HE GIVES US THE ORIGINALS TO GO WITH THEM! There is NO excuse for withholding the originals and it only makes Lucas into an asshole. Especially when other (better) filmmakers like Spielberg and Ridley Scott always releases the original cuts ALONG with the Extended/Director's Cuts!
- There is no excuse for the "NOOOO" in both movies, it IS laughable and definitely undefendable!
BTW, I did a research paper on Star Wars many years back. I found that, while Lucas wasn't much of a good writer, the basic foundation of his films were solid. He employs a lot of mythological elements that come in full force when you view the entire films together. The SW movies really *are* about Anakin's fall from grace & his ultimate redemption. Ppl will cringe at how whiny and emotional Anakin is. But who else would become an evil villian without those negative traits?
Bravo! Absolutely amazing perspective. I'm annoyed by the fantardiness that comes up and masks itself as 'legit criticism' these days. This type of aittude is seen in other beloved franchises/genres as well, unfortunately. Right now, I'm waiting for a game from a series I love. The fantards have emerged in full force against it. Why? Because they changed the hair color of the main character. HAIR COLOR? REALLY? You're gonna grip about hair color? Sheesh. >_> Fantardiness knows no limits.
I think you've come up with some fantastic points! I actually think the dislike of Ewocks blinking is STUPID. It makes them more realistic to blink & look more alive. But the NOOO, I hated @ first, but now you've explaned it the way you have, I don't mind it so much. People fuss over nothing anyway. If people really want to see it the way it was when it came out, they can just buy the Limmited Edition.
I agree 100%. All 6 movies are fine. They're not perfect but they're not bad. People that say GL messed up there childhood! Really? What kind of childhood did they have? They are just movies. Let it go. And listen to kevin smith? Who cares what that fat guy thinks!? lol.
None of this would be an issue if Lucas would just release the restored original trilogy. By withholding the originals so many people love and then updating them to match his constantly changing artistic vision, he's really set himself up for some withering criticism.
Well argued though, even if I disagree with you on points.
It has nothing to do with what I grew up with but how things played out as they were first hand consider how flash gordon was remade in the late 70s my concerns are with the fact lucas was better off rebooting the original trilogy IMHO preferring it to altering the originals because then you could get your penultimate vision for the new gen. I can and have defended changes in franchises BUT soley for the purpose of it's continue and not for some continuous prerogative to change until it's gone.
I gave the video ample time to voice now it's my turn, I love how you take many steps to imply every critic is misguided in this or that or what you grew up with is not exactly how it was. Well I've known those for years (credits?) and I still respect david prowse for filling the role as I do Jones and Shaw, I disagree with the cliche old person dies becomes young ghost because anakin is the way LUKE remembers him like qui-gon would with Kenobi etc (cont)
(2nd part) If 2011 Lucas had offered Lucas 1976 to improve the special FX, the latter would certainly have accepted. Now: if 2011 Lucas had suggested 1976 Lucas that Darth Vader should shout "Nooo", I'm rather sure he wouldn't have.
I could 100% agree with you if it wasn't for this: you can't add major modifications to a film like Star Wars. THX1138 is George Lucas's toy, he can do whatever he wants with it. Adding eyelids to Ewoks is OK, I guess, as an artistical improvement. However, adding a LINE ("Nooo" is one), relevant or not, is outrageous. For Star Wars is a 1977 film, with a budget, productors, a deadline, etc. It's a whole. It's too late to change anything as important as dialogs. (2nd part follows)
The 'Nooooo' at the end of Sith made Vader sound like a whiny little bitch because....He still was? That was Anakin for the whole of episodes two and three. Why wouldn't he bitch about Padme dying? Vader became more stoic in the years after, why people think he would have changed just with the robotics I do not know.
look, man. theere are 2 reasons that lucas made anakin whiny. didn't you hear in TESB when yoda said much anger in him like his father before vader reveals himself as luke's father. darth vader/ anakin felt sad of padme because he wasn't keeping padme for evil which he doesn't mean to. didn't you vader moaned after his hand got gut by luke in ROTJ
I actually enjoyed the prequels somewhat and some of the changes of the special edition versions of the original trilogy. Yet I felt that the "NoOoOo!" tacked on to the climax of Return of the Jedi was in poor taste; even for the fallen George Lucas. To me the silence of Vader/Anakin while Luke is getting toasted by Palpatine is great. Even though you cannot see his face behind the mask, you can imagine the torment he is going through turning from Vader back to Anakin Skywalker.
The scene is more memorable and more impactful without any words being spoken, outside of anything Luke says, which is little more than pleading for his life.
Bullshit don't we see the good side of vader - what about when he takes his mask off you annoying pseudo-intellectual? I too want to love the prequel trilogy but face it they are SHIT. Fuck Lucas, long live Nub Nub and Han's dark side.
Come on people, stop being such haters. To each their own, everyone has their own opinion. So if you have the right to hate any of the changes to Star Wars, then those who aren't repulsed should have the right to think so. If you can't accept others views, how can you expect everyone to value yours?
We don't need the "noooooo" to see the goodside of vader. His actions show it when he saves luke, and then afterwards when luke removes his mask and they talk.
@soccercpa. George Lucas "hired" the directors for episodes V and VI because he was tired from the stress if making episode IV, but still the complete story of star wars was WRITTEN by Lucas so Lucas has every right to change it if he feels he needs to ,as an artist my self I understand the need to tweak or fix a piece of art to make it our vision / he wasn't happy with the original release due he had to make sacrifices and now he can finish his artwork the way he Envisioned it :)
The Anakin ghost change makes sense because Anakin reverted back to his younger Jedi self on the light side of Force. Yoda and Obi-wan were always on the light side so they looked old.
@shadowedge69 I also agree because Anakin died on Mustafar as that age, it would be weird to see him come back as his older self because Anakin never became a good old man.
"I just feel that in episode 3 the scene would have been better if vader just screamed out in pain. like "Ahhhh" or something else incomprehensible or not a word. screaming "No" made the scene silly and when i saw it in theaters my first reaction was to laugh.
I just feel that in episode 3 the scene would have been better if vader just screamed out in pain. like "Ahhhh" or something else incomprehensible or not a word. screaming "No" made the scene silly and when i saw it in theaters my first reaction was to laugh.
@PapistWitness you are right imho, but this was not a change for the blu ray, it was already changed before and in the blu ray it is much better then in the DVD, because in the blu ray they basically shoot at the same time.
Meh... that's definitely an improvement, and it probably looks way less stupid than in the DVD version (where Greedo's marksmanship makes the average Stormtrooper look like Robin Hood or William Tell), but if the whole point is that Han was gonna shoot him anyways, what's the point of having them shoot at the same time? He's just as roguish either way, so just let him shoot first and be done with it. Lucas is still on crack on this issue, so far as I'm concerned.
I've thought that exact same point as you hve today. On the blu ray version of who shot first. The whole point that Lucas made by Greedo shooting first has gone now, so he might as wel make Han shoot first again. The issue about HS being to nice has gone, but it's still ridicioulous that Han managed to dodge from a blast of such a close range. But it's so quick that I don't really think new viewers would thnk about it.
Lucas had no right to add that completely pointless "no" into ROTJ because he didn't direct it. Fuck up I-IV all you want Lucas, but you have no right to touch Empire or Jedi.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely". The only reason A New Hope made it was because he had people challenging and refuting his ideas. Then V and VI were good because guess who DIDNT direct them, George Lucas. Now just look at all this crap that has come afterwards.
Thank you for such a well thought out review of the "No". I do agree with you on how the "No" links both the old and new films and how we are rebelling because it's our childhood version that we are seeing messed with.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You are a gay idiot. Word on the street is that when you invited Lucas over to your house, you offered him your anus as a vagina because there were no chicks around.
stop talking without making any breaks. you are 22 now. when the first movies came out you werent even born. neither was i. but when i was a kid and i saw the movies in the theater when they reran the on the big screens in the biggest theater in berlin they stuck with me. and every litle change to them is just making them worse.
Great video, but you're still wrong. Lucas has no clue how to make films in narrative order. He describes it as "jazz" but really it's chaos. That is why he has had to retroactively change the original trilogy to make the new shit fit.
I think you may be seeing symbolism where it doesn't exist in some places, but this was a genuinely good defense of the changes. I used to be the biggest Star Wars nerd on the planet and I would defend any and all changes he made to the death. Now I think I can step back and take a much more objective look at it. You're right that he has a right to do what he wants to with his films, but I still think the changes that have nothing to do with updating special effects should be left out of it.
I am a diehard Star Wars fan and even though I disliked the video I'm sorry about that but in some point of view, your logic also makes sence.
But I am in offence of Darth vader's "Noooo!" and IF the voice of Vader of Blu Ray was done by Matt Solan, Who potrayed Darth vader in Empire at war:Force of Corruption and The force Unleashed games I would say to Matt,
"You were supposed to stop George from that disaster, now I am dissapointed at you."
@PapistWitness Maybe not the best video EVER, but definitely in terms of making an argument for anything related to the prequels or George changes. Expertly said argument. Well done. I'm a part of the younger generation and to me, all six movies are Star Wars. In fact Phantom Menace was the first SW movie I ever saw. I personally prefer the Originals but the other three are just as much a part of me as 4 5 and 6 are. Again, this is fantastic. Keep up the great work!
Very good argument! I like your argument that if it was in the original we would have liked it. Now, i still say that it's BS for the no to be added, but it's more of "I hate added stuff." I respectfully disagree, but good video!
I can see your point but if he had to say anything it should have been under his breath. Wish they had addressed the continuity issues between Empire and Jedi. Han is frozen wearing a waistcoat with his hands cuffed behind his back but loses both between movies.
The changes are being made to satisfy the occassional whims of Lucas, PERIOD! He's not doing it to piss off the fan boys, he's not doing it to "prove" artistic rights over his work. The series will never be the perfect thing he's trying to make it and that's sad for him. Though you make some interesting points here papi the truth is Lucas has something to prove to himself and we're along for the ride. Maybe we'll get lucky & he'll use the proceeds from the blue ray to get some therapy who knows.
@ContinuityGlueVideos (cont'd) I also think that Vader saying "no" in Return of the Jedi makes sense, and is a nice call-back to Episode III. That is, until the second "no". As vadion12 said below, the first one fits in without much problem, but the second one doesn't feel right. I just wish that Lucas would take more care in the changes so they don't feel forced in or awkward.
I gave your video a like, even though I don't completely agree with you. You made a reasoned, well-thought out argument, and I see where you're coming from. I'm not going to swear at you like these other idiots. Yes, he is the creator and so can change things if he thinks it will make it better. However, his constant niggling has made the original films a little worse. Now, I agree that Vader should show emotion when he learns of Padme's death, but it could have been more subtle not over the top
I can understand why fanboys resent the new "NOOOO!" line in ROTJ. The line *does* make that connection to the prequel trilogy and that tells the audience that the legacy of episodes 1-3 has seeped into the Original Trilogy.
I think these changes in the blu-ray editions are just practical jokes played by Lucas in order to rattle the fanboys' monkey cages. I'll admit, though, I lol'd at them.
Say, what do you think of the new "Krayt Dragon Call" that Obi-Wan makes in the Blu-Ray edition?
As Far as the NOOOO at the end of return of the Jedi, I feel like the first time he says it wheres it's just..."No..." fits pretty well, but the second one thats a rip of episode three doesnt feel right
I disagree and I think the "Nooo!" was a really bad choice, BUT I think its a cool idea to put up a video like this, you obviously put a lot of work into it and I enjoyed watching it. Thumbs up!^^
I still think that the "Nooo" was a pretty poor choice to put in as it just doesn't sound right, although I don't mind the Ewoks blinking as it's only minor
i also defend. for the exact same reasons listed in this video. vader was a troubled and tormented soul and it makes perfect sense that in the face of the ultimatum the emperor gave him: watch his son die and suffer being alone and tormented for the rest of his life or redeem himself and finally find some peace, that the 'NOOO' not only sync'd with the passion shown in the Ep.3 ending but also served to remind us that not only has he got some compassion left but he's still passionate til the end
It doesn't annoy me too much that Lucas makes all these alterations. What does bother me is that he refuses to release a Theatrical Cut of the trilogy alongside these altered versions. Blade Runner was different in that even with the bajillion different cuts, the original, unaltered version was still brought to blu-ray in the boxed set. Unless we hold on to our VHS tapes, Lucas has forced us to purchase a product we don't want, just because there is no other alternative.
maybe converting your VHS copies to DVDs and then making backups on your computer is the only way, then. you could probably make copies and give them to your friends, and tell them to tell their friends. dont let the classics fade.
THANK YOU! I believe the, "No!" was decent. Although the silence of the original version was stoic, the No brought out some thought from his head. Keep on keepin' on! :D
Just because you don't like the changes doesn't mean you're blinded by nostalgia and can't move beyond your childhood. If dubbing Vader's "NO!" into Return of the Jedi works for you, fine; you explained why well enough, but it doesn't work for me and there are plenty of valid criticisms against it.
And the difference between Star Wars and Bladerunner is that you can watch any version of Bladerunner you want on DVD or blu-ray and you can't do that with Star Wars.
"And the difference between Star Wars and Bladerunner is that you can watch any version of Bladerunner you want on DVD or blu-ray and you can't do that with Star Wars."
This is where I'm gonna wholeheartedly agree with the haters. Lucas should totally release the original theatrical cut along with his revised editions. I personally suspect he has it in a vault somewhere and has it in his will that it should be released to the public upon his death so he leaves on a high note.
AND... There's a good reason the "docking bay" was cut out of the original. What really gets me is the terrible continuity mistake within the scene with Chewie. He's walking behind Han and Jabba next to the Falcon, then BAM! He's at the door entrance looking at them, then BAM! he's back beside the Falcon. Clearly its a recycled edit from when Han and Chewie first entered the docking bay. I just don't see the point of Lucas adding MORE mistakes while claiming to "fix" the old ones.
Do you apologists not get the concept of subtley? I was 12 years old when I saw this in the theater. Even then I got the idea of Vader's inner conflict. For a second you wonder what he's going to do. That's the tension of the scene. Adding "No" before he acts eliminates any build up. Characters DO NOT need to vocalize every damn thing they are thinking. Vader looking at Luke and then the Emperor you get everything you need to know without a single word.
I agree--emotionally the scene works perfectly fine without the "NOOOO". (I don't think the tension is *wrecked* by it and I suspect that future generations who weren't raised with the NO-less version will be distracted by it.) What the NOOO adds is another level to that emotion by hearkening to his backstory. It provides a more developed context to what he's doing, even though his basic emotions are already obvious.
If he really wanted to make Anakin redeemable he could have taken the children and put them on a transport wile telling the Emperor that he had killed them.
Are you really gonna defend the change from killing Mace Windo to slaughtering like 20 or 30 little kids in over 2 scenes?
People like you just can't accept GL made 3 really bad movies and have to make crazy leaps in logic to defend him.
For me it was all over when they left Anakins mom even though they now had money to buy er freedom.
The only thing that was changed that had anything to do with technology was the Ewok eyes.
When I first heard the new noise that Obi-Wan makes I really did think it was a joke (sadly I've been so disappointed buy Lucas before that I was pretty sure that Vaders no was real)
Also wasn't Blade Runner released with the original version in the box?
He can change episodes 1,2, and 3 all he wants cause they suck ass anyway but I wish he would just release the originals unchanged.
These last changes are so bad the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is he was so hurt over the reaction to the new 3 that he's just spitting in the fans faces with changes he knows are stupid.
I don't think anyone could say the nooooo scene adds anything to the film.
You can't compare cutting out Sebastian to cutting out David Prowse who didn't have the voice for the part and would've made a weaker film. Cutting out a solid actor like Sebastian makes no sense. In terms of hinting at good in Vader, the point is Vader was an armoured, shell hiding inner vulnerability. Even kids picked up on this without needing dumbing down to. When Shakespeare retold folk tales he crafted his plays from scratch. That's art. Altering random bits of a complete film isn't art
@sadako24 What are you smoking? A lot of Shakespeare plays are believed to be variants of popular plays of the times. His Hamlet probably wasn't that much different then the other 9000 versions out there.
@TronZEROPi Oh, another Lucas apologist fanboy. Of course there's a difference between a playwright writing pages and pages of his own script out of a folk story, and putting real sweat into it from beginning to end, and Lucas just making casual random additions in the middle of the completed script. If you can't see that, you must be a moron
@sadako24 Your argument that Shakespeare created all of his works form start to finish because you say so shows that you're the idiot here. Plus, Lucas' additions aren't random and actually serve a purpose and if you weren't such an ass whip maybe you'd be able to see it. Their are story tellers out there that alter their works solely for the purpose of pissing people off and they don't get any of the hate that Lucas does not even if the things added actually change the character.
@TronZEROPi I didn't say Shakespeare 'created' his works from start to finish, but he did *craft* them. That thing you do where you're writing pages and pages and are deep in the creative process and the creativity and soul comes out. Involves a certain care and consciousness of where it's all going and what you're trying to say in the moment. Not the same thing as pointing at a screen and saying 'oh I don't like that, lets change that' at all.
@TronZEROPi I don't 'hate' George Lucas, I just hate the arbitrary decisions he keeps making and I find it irritating and patronising when Lucas defenders try to school people on the proper way they should react to his decisions. Frankly he's taking his own nitpicky frustrations with his own work and forcing them on everyone else. I'm a casual fan of Star Wars at best but in my book defacing any beloved classics of cinema, particularly in this incessant and poorly-judged way should be condemned.
dont you think that vader asking luke to join him to rule as father and son doesnt show any love? He could have killed luke if there was no good left.
I've never understood why people bash Hayden Christensen all the time. I think he did a great job. And adding him at the end of ROTJ makes so much more sense. If the prequels were the first Star Wars films released people wouldn't be bashing them at all.
If he were to update the theatrical version along with every other version he decides to do I've got no problem with it. But the fact is, he doesn't do this. The last original theatrical release of the film in a 16:9 widescreen format was on video in the 90's. He eventually released the original theatrical cut on dvd later but it was in 4:3. As far as I no he did not release a dvd version with a 16:9 format. And now he's released a blu-ray version that is not the original.
the added jabba scene confused me. why would there be a scene where han kills a bounty hunter... or better put why would there be a bounty on han when all it took was ONE meeting with jabba five minutes later to smooth things out? Jabba seemed more annoyed that han dumped his cargo then pissed off enough to put a hit on him.
you can't defend the 'no'. Even if you think that a scene showing vader as being a vulnerable human being is a good idea it should have been done in a far less, laugh out loud, campy way. once you remove the justification for the 'no' in sith you negate the reason in jedi as there wouldn't be anything to 'echo'
You're biggest argument is "You just don't like it because it's not what you grew up with." But that's not why I'm against it. I'm against it because he's altering a finished work of art, and trying to bury the original works. In 150 years when historians refer to the ancient film known as Star Wars, they will have trouble appreciating the film for what it was in it's time of conception.
I'm against altering art. Black and white movies shouldn't be colorized. Star Wars needs the same repect.
some good points. If he originally had a vocal reaction to his son being killed it would show him more human. he comes back a bit to save his son in the end, luke helps him see the light. Perhaps its just the way he says no that is bad. Especially in the rots scene (cringe) maybe a bit more anger in his voice would help. He did just crush the room. anyway its not a deal breaker for me.
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
I'm pretty sure David Prowse was ok with Lucas NOT using him as the voice for Vader. It just didn't work very well and so David would do the voicing anyway so the actors knew how to react to him aware that the real dialogue would be added in later. Same was done to Ray Park who played Darth Maul. That's not comparable to cutting an actor out of the picture. His contribution was still important you see. Anyway, I like your other points though I still think the moments end up corny and jarring.
He doesn't care about the 'fan' community, he has shown that time and time again. He is doing it for profit. You use the example of Ridley Scoot doing a directors cut of BR but this is totally different because Scott has no problem with releasing an original version. When directors change and edit their films they call it a director's cut. I
@ShootEvrythg I have to keep stopping and rewinding this video because I don't think your arguments hold up very well. You give Lucas way too much credit. What George is doing to Return of the Jedi isn't even a director's cut because he didn't direct the film. It is a producer's cut. Just because he directed THX a long time ago in a galaxy far far away doesn't mean he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Just look at the prequels, they are a mess by all standards, and they get worse from Phantom
@ShootEvrythg Critics who praise or give good reviews Revenge of the Sith aren't honest and it isn't proof it is a good film. In fact after watching Revenge of the Sith a few days ago I think it is the worst of the prequels long before the Darth Vader Noooo scene. In fact I loved the Darth Vader noo and was waiting for it cause it made me laugh and I knew the film would be over soon. The art of film is to show, not tell. By having Vader telegraph his actions in the ROTJ scene destroys the drama
@ShootEvrythg What made the scene so good was that the fact that Vader has no facial expression yet the emotion and decision is so clear. George Lucas does not remedy the fact that Vader was never 'good' or had good, they make it worse by having Anakin be a completely power obsessed whiny bitch. In the prequels he was never a hero we could sympathize with anyway. Everything Anakin does in the prequels is incredibly selfish. He was never a hero or good guy in the prequels, cept when he was a kid
@ShootEvrythg Ultimately Vader can never be fully redeemed. There was good in him, but that doesn't mean that he could every have come back to the light after the things he had done. Anakin is supposed to lose himself to Vader and once he is Vader he shouldn't care about Padme. Besides Padme should never have died anyway, it doesn't make sense because Leia implies in ROTJ that she knew her mother as a young child
@ShootEvrythg Vader just doesn't need to say Noo, it goes against the language of cinema, the mix is so bad also cause he just talks right over Luke's pleading. At first it also makes it sound like Vader is saying no to Luke. Like No I won't help you. It destroys the power of the scene. If it was originally in the film had watched it as a kid obviously I wouldn't care. But as an adult I would have noticed. This is at the heart of this argument.
@ShootEvrythg Liking Star Wars isn't entirely about nostalgia. The films aren't good because I liked them as a child. They are genuinely great films. I liked the prequels as a child, but now I can see right through them. And this poetry you are talking about isn't even really there because the story of the prequels isn't really consistent with the Original Trilogy. Everyone points to that Toshi power converters thing, but be honest, Mark Hamil was a great actor as Luke, Hayden was not as Anakin
@ShootEvrythg Even Hamil's reaction to finding out Vader is Luke's father is really good, albeit kind of cheeze because he can show his emotions so well, unlike Hayden. Once again back to the issue of Nostalgia, this has very little to do with nostalgia. I don't give a shit about Ewoks blinking or not blinking. But adding Nooo to that scene contradicts what the scene is about and it takes away the powerful emotion of that scene. George Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, he made it great.
@ShootEvrythg He is mildly annoying my adultohood. And omg how can you even defend the change to Hayden. It isn't bad because it is disrespectful to shaw, it just doesn't make any logical sense. Why would Luke see Hayden Anakin? You yourself said that Darth turns back to Anakin at the end of Jedi. George totally put Hayden in to fuck over anyone who wants to forget the prequels, it is pretty clear. And David Prouse? Are you serious.
@ShootEvrythg Lucas said multiple times he never intended Prowse to be the voice ever. Wow, ridiculous argument. This video totally falls apart at the end with this Prowse thing. Prowse though he would be in Jedi when the mask comes off, but never thought he would be the actual voice. Anyway, good of you to express your opinion, but I don't agree that I am upset because he changed it from the way it was. I don't mind special edition enhancements or whatever, but changing the drama of a scene bad
@ShootEvrythg It makes more sense that we would see Anakin as he was in life. Why would he look like an old man with hair and eyebrows when he never had those things? That would be like Yoda's ghost having a mohawk. Remember the Matrix' concept of "residual self image?" Obviously, Anakin sees himself as a young man before he got burned up, not as some old guy who never existed. Also obvious, you don't like it because it's a CHANGE. You wouldn't give a damn if the PT came out first.
@AGEOFAENYA It doesn't make any sense that we would see Anakin as Hayden. Wake up - at the end of Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader turns back into Anakin, we see the old man Anakin under the mask. So it makes perfect sense that he is an old man force ghost. It makes Zero logical sense that we would see Hayden. Mark Hamil is way more talented that Hayden, he has more talent in his little pinky than Hayden. Just look at what Hamil has done with the Joker.
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
i have to agree with you on this. the TPM and AOTC were pretty average, but the third one was actually quite decent. i never really though of the "no" scene, until now, and that's because i just never noticed anything wrong with it. i thin you are right though in that it was a reflection of the previous movies, and in that way is quite poetic and artistic even.
xXxforkboyxXx 7 hours ago
George Lucas is the master of "Ruining things". Sorry, but I hate this dude. His changes of the original Star Wars is so baffling to me and I don't understand it. Yes, Harry S. Plinkett is my Star Wars God!
hankheavy 1 day ago
Now explain Lucas changing Boba Fett's original voice in Empire beside for the simple fact that Boba Fett is a perfect clone of Jango Fett. This really pissed me off because A. I'm obviously a Boba Fett fan and B. Jason Wingreen's original ice-cold delivery of Fett's four lines was FLAWLESS. Which lends to the old adage: IF IT AIN'T BROKE, THEN DON'T FIX IT. Besides the new Jabba scene in A New Hope and the new Emperor scene in Empire there really hasn't been anything else wrong with the OT.
jango52577 2 days ago
Hmmm...I like your argument about Vader coming back from the Dark Side and reacting to Palpatine torturing Luke the same way he reacted when Palpatine told Anakin he killed Padme. It makes a lot of sense because in crying "Nooooooo!!", Vader is reclaiming his humanity. On the other hand I remember the first time I saw Jedi and how surprised I was when Vader openly attacked his master to save his son's life. By having him watch Luke silently, it really made you wonder where his loyalty was.
jango52577 2 days ago
George Lucas has ALWAYS said, even from Day 1, that he wasn't 100% happy with the movies the way they were, but, at the time, he was too restricted by lack of then-present technology, costs, etc., but had to make due at the time. And it was still AMAZING & people had never seen anything like it. I can understand how he'd want to go back & make the corrections the way he wanted. He's just being a perfectionist in his mind, but the problem is some.fans liked it as was anyway. So, here we are now.
GerardChristianZach 1 week ago
I remember back in the day when a lot of people complained that the Ewoks DIDN'T blink. George waited for the right technology to come along and went back and fixed that. Now people complain because they DO blink and I bet some were those people that complained when they didn't blink. To me, it just makes them more realistic now. Like you, I feel there are some changes that might not have been the best ideas and others that make perfect sense.
GerardChristianZach 1 week ago
I see your point about about the whole 'nooooo' however you are missing something, Luke saw the good in Vader via his connection with the force, he even says 'I sense good in you' therefore we do not need to show Vader's conflict any more than that, if Luke 'his son' can feel it, then we know it must be there, his choice at the end justifies that, what makes Darth Vader the villain he is today is his dominating silence, we're not use to him being emotional because as Obi-Wan....
Timelord6661 1 week ago
@Timelord6661 ...said in Return of the Jedi 'he's more machine than man' he's not supposed to be emotional. His tragedy derives from the loss of humanity. When you set up a character with certain traits, changes in character have to feel natural, and Darth Vader shouting no in such as stupid way is not natural, if anything it's incredibly contrived, the difference between that and scene about power converters is that that scene fleshes out Luke's life in a subtle way, it gives the audience a...
Timelord6661 1 week ago
@Timelord6661 ....glimpse of an ordinary activity Luke does in the world that he lives in, it makes him more relatable because we can all relate to the idea of having fun with friends but having to do work. As silly as it sounds, it adds to the character and give us a glimpse of what his life is like, which is harmless. Although Ewoks blinking isn't something to get pissed off with, it was something that was completely unnecessary and in no way justified, it wasted money and it adds nothing.
Timelord6661 1 week ago
@Timelord6661 ...One last point to make Star Wars is in the library of congress as a piece of cinematic history, I think that's enough of a reason to see it as much more than simply Lucas's story, it made cinematic history in so many ways morally it doesn't belong to him, and even though legally it does, it doesn't mean he should have done it, what pisses people off about these changes is that it adds nothing, and is mostly completely unnecessary, it also only causes confusion.
Timelord6661 1 week ago
@johnsmith21197 Way to repeat RedLetterMedia...
SooperDooperMan1000 3 weeks ago
who likes "cool stuff." Get over it fuck head they make whole movies in CGI nowadays. And all kidding aside Hayden Anakin never fell to the dark side..... "he was tricked." Besides he is a whiny bitch and is one of the primary reasons i don't consider the prequels "Star Wars."
johnsmith21197 3 weeks ago
Are you a fucking idiot? Did you say you like the added scene with Jabba the Hut in "A New Hope"? That stupid fucking scene doesn't even make any sense. Jabba sends someone to kill Han Solo and then he just has a casual conversation with him? It doesn't even make any sense... Han Solo steps on his tail????? Disregarding the fact of how stupid he looks with his big pussy cat eyes, the scene is completely out of place. Oh wait..... you just like it because you are one of those stupid dumbasses
johnsmith21197 3 weeks ago
But we were infromed by Luke when he said that he could 'feel' Vader's goodness. Was there really a need to highlight Vader's remorse in such a way?
Furthermore, I would hazard that we aren't complacent with James Earl Jones' voice merely beause we grew up with it, but because it's so much more kickass!
Personally, I'm not offended by the Hayden edit at the end of Jedi simply out of loyalty to Shaw. I'm offended because Christensen wasn't there to complete the arc. He just isn't Vader to me
Williamsfan 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
Williamsfan 4 weeks ago
Only Luke could sense the last good Ember in Vader. Not The Audience, Not The Emperor, not even Yoda. THAT ist one of the most interesting facts in the original series, in my opinion.
Vader ought to be Bad to the bone. He was all that bad to the very end and I can tell, that I was surprided when vader finally showed his better side, by killing his master. I wouldn't be surprised, if Vader showed some of his good side to the audience before.
Fortenhell 4 weeks ago
i still think luke's "NOO!!" in empire strikes back is more annoying.
xsonicx08 1 month ago
And i'm sorry but everytime i think about Hayden Christensen's superimposed smug face in Return of The Jedi, i die a little inside. Stop shoving the Prequels in our face, Lucas! We're trying to forget those movies!
WelcomeGhostsIV 1 month ago
Lucas can change the movies all he wants... AS LONG AS HE GIVES US THE ORIGINALS TO GO WITH THEM! There is NO excuse for withholding the originals and it only makes Lucas into an asshole. Especially when other (better) filmmakers like Spielberg and Ridley Scott always releases the original cuts ALONG with the Extended/Director's Cuts!
- There is no excuse for the "NOOOO" in both movies, it IS laughable and definitely undefendable!
WelcomeGhostsIV 1 month ago
BTW, I did a research paper on Star Wars many years back. I found that, while Lucas wasn't much of a good writer, the basic foundation of his films were solid. He employs a lot of mythological elements that come in full force when you view the entire films together. The SW movies really *are* about Anakin's fall from grace & his ultimate redemption. Ppl will cringe at how whiny and emotional Anakin is. But who else would become an evil villian without those negative traits?
dantespimp 1 month ago
Bravo! Absolutely amazing perspective. I'm annoyed by the fantardiness that comes up and masks itself as 'legit criticism' these days. This type of aittude is seen in other beloved franchises/genres as well, unfortunately. Right now, I'm waiting for a game from a series I love. The fantards have emerged in full force against it. Why? Because they changed the hair color of the main character. HAIR COLOR? REALLY? You're gonna grip about hair color? Sheesh. >_> Fantardiness knows no limits.
dantespimp 1 month ago
I think you've come up with some fantastic points! I actually think the dislike of Ewocks blinking is STUPID. It makes them more realistic to blink & look more alive. But the NOOO, I hated @ first, but now you've explaned it the way you have, I don't mind it so much. People fuss over nothing anyway. If people really want to see it the way it was when it came out, they can just buy the Limmited Edition.
ChocolateisIsNice 1 month ago
At 2:08-2:24 it kind of looks like George Lucas is saying a lot of the things you are saying.
erwinthehamsandwich 1 month ago
I agree 100%. All 6 movies are fine. They're not perfect but they're not bad. People that say GL messed up there childhood! Really? What kind of childhood did they have? They are just movies. Let it go. And listen to kevin smith? Who cares what that fat guy thinks!? lol.
TRONMasterMCP 1 month ago
None of this would be an issue if Lucas would just release the restored original trilogy. By withholding the originals so many people love and then updating them to match his constantly changing artistic vision, he's really set himself up for some withering criticism.
Well argued though, even if I disagree with you on points.
mipaul10 1 month ago
It has nothing to do with what I grew up with but how things played out as they were first hand consider how flash gordon was remade in the late 70s my concerns are with the fact lucas was better off rebooting the original trilogy IMHO preferring it to altering the originals because then you could get your penultimate vision for the new gen. I can and have defended changes in franchises BUT soley for the purpose of it's continue and not for some continuous prerogative to change until it's gone.
Jaegar19Ultima 1 month ago
I gave the video ample time to voice now it's my turn, I love how you take many steps to imply every critic is misguided in this or that or what you grew up with is not exactly how it was. Well I've known those for years (credits?) and I still respect david prowse for filling the role as I do Jones and Shaw, I disagree with the cliche old person dies becomes young ghost because anakin is the way LUKE remembers him like qui-gon would with Kenobi etc (cont)
Jaegar19Ultima 1 month ago
I actually don't mind ROTS's No, but ROTJ's No is A BIG NO NO!
spiderskater3 2 months ago
(2nd part) If 2011 Lucas had offered Lucas 1976 to improve the special FX, the latter would certainly have accepted. Now: if 2011 Lucas had suggested 1976 Lucas that Darth Vader should shout "Nooo", I'm rather sure he wouldn't have.
THAT is the limit that 2011 Lucas crossed.
LePatay 2 months ago
I could 100% agree with you if it wasn't for this: you can't add major modifications to a film like Star Wars. THX1138 is George Lucas's toy, he can do whatever he wants with it. Adding eyelids to Ewoks is OK, I guess, as an artistical improvement. However, adding a LINE ("Nooo" is one), relevant or not, is outrageous. For Star Wars is a 1977 film, with a budget, productors, a deadline, etc. It's a whole. It's too late to change anything as important as dialogs. (2nd part follows)
LePatay 2 months ago
The 'Nooooo' at the end of Sith made Vader sound like a whiny little bitch because....He still was? That was Anakin for the whole of episodes two and three. Why wouldn't he bitch about Padme dying? Vader became more stoic in the years after, why people think he would have changed just with the robotics I do not know.
zerosyko 2 months ago
@zerosyko
look, man. theere are 2 reasons that lucas made anakin whiny. didn't you hear in TESB when yoda said much anger in him like his father before vader reveals himself as luke's father. darth vader/ anakin felt sad of padme because he wasn't keeping padme for evil which he doesn't mean to. didn't you vader moaned after his hand got gut by luke in ROTJ
tmMcHugh 2 months ago
I actually enjoyed the prequels somewhat and some of the changes of the special edition versions of the original trilogy. Yet I felt that the "NoOoOo!" tacked on to the climax of Return of the Jedi was in poor taste; even for the fallen George Lucas. To me the silence of Vader/Anakin while Luke is getting toasted by Palpatine is great. Even though you cannot see his face behind the mask, you can imagine the torment he is going through turning from Vader back to Anakin Skywalker.
Maphisto86 2 months ago
at the beginning i hit dislike at the end i hit like
kiernakin 2 months ago
The scene is more memorable and more impactful without any words being spoken, outside of anything Luke says, which is little more than pleading for his life.
Changing it lessens that impact.
Zenn3k 2 months ago
Bullshit don't we see the good side of vader - what about when he takes his mask off you annoying pseudo-intellectual? I too want to love the prequel trilogy but face it they are SHIT. Fuck Lucas, long live Nub Nub and Han's dark side.
Retcrow 2 months ago
NOOOOOO to the noooo, thays what i say
BadgerCat55 2 months ago
Yup, Kevin was right, you can't defend the indefensible.
planetphil 2 months ago
you look like an Ammish?
KY0UJlN 3 months ago
Come on people, stop being such haters. To each their own, everyone has their own opinion. So if you have the right to hate any of the changes to Star Wars, then those who aren't repulsed should have the right to think so. If you can't accept others views, how can you expect everyone to value yours?
mbohn90 3 months ago
We don't need the "noooooo" to see the goodside of vader. His actions show it when he saves luke, and then afterwards when luke removes his mask and they talk.
raedenjay 3 months ago
@soccercpa. George Lucas "hired" the directors for episodes V and VI because he was tired from the stress if making episode IV, but still the complete story of star wars was WRITTEN by Lucas so Lucas has every right to change it if he feels he needs to ,as an artist my self I understand the need to tweak or fix a piece of art to make it our vision / he wasn't happy with the original release due he had to make sacrifices and now he can finish his artwork the way he Envisioned it :)
Darkapple93 3 months ago
The Anakin ghost change makes sense because Anakin reverted back to his younger Jedi self on the light side of Force. Yoda and Obi-wan were always on the light side so they looked old.
shadowedge69 3 months ago 2
@shadowedge69 I also agree because Anakin died on Mustafar as that age, it would be weird to see him come back as his older self because Anakin never became a good old man.
Fascistwarrior1989 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i agree and i agree on the comment below mine
"I just feel that in episode 3 the scene would have been better if vader just screamed out in pain. like "Ahhhh" or something else incomprehensible or not a word. screaming "No" made the scene silly and when i saw it in theaters my first reaction was to laugh.
KinoHiroshino"
JeremFrancoi 3 months ago
I just feel that in episode 3 the scene would have been better if vader just screamed out in pain. like "Ahhhh" or something else incomprehensible or not a word. screaming "No" made the scene silly and when i saw it in theaters my first reaction was to laugh.
KinoHiroshino 3 months ago
I agree about the nOo, but why the fuck did greedo have to shoot first?
Billywask 3 months ago 6
@Billywask
That is totally indefensible. I'm 100% wholeheartedly with the haters on that one.
PapistWitness 3 months ago 9
@PapistWitness you are right imho, but this was not a change for the blu ray, it was already changed before and in the blu ray it is much better then in the DVD, because in the blu ray they basically shoot at the same time.
rfvtgbzhn 2 months ago
@rfvtgbzhn
Meh... that's definitely an improvement, and it probably looks way less stupid than in the DVD version (where Greedo's marksmanship makes the average Stormtrooper look like Robin Hood or William Tell), but if the whole point is that Han was gonna shoot him anyways, what's the point of having them shoot at the same time? He's just as roguish either way, so just let him shoot first and be done with it. Lucas is still on crack on this issue, so far as I'm concerned.
PapistWitness 2 months ago
@PapistWitness
I've thought that exact same point as you hve today. On the blu ray version of who shot first. The whole point that Lucas made by Greedo shooting first has gone now, so he might as wel make Han shoot first again. The issue about HS being to nice has gone, but it's still ridicioulous that Han managed to dodge from a blast of such a close range. But it's so quick that I don't really think new viewers would thnk about it.
ChocolateisIsNice 3 weeks ago
Lucas had no right to add that completely pointless "no" into ROTJ because he didn't direct it. Fuck up I-IV all you want Lucas, but you have no right to touch Empire or Jedi.
soccercpa 3 months ago
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely". The only reason A New Hope made it was because he had people challenging and refuting his ideas. Then V and VI were good because guess who DIDNT direct them, George Lucas. Now just look at all this crap that has come afterwards.
soccercpa 3 months ago
The whole point you dont see any good up in darth vader is the fact that at the end he saves luke and redeems himself
MrMeched 3 months ago
We feel the same way. There is one chenge in SW IV witch I hate, Greedo shooting first. I hate it! How could you miss at that range.
davidpolymath 3 months ago
Thank you for such a well thought out review of the "No". I do agree with you on how the "No" links both the old and new films and how we are rebelling because it's our childhood version that we are seeing messed with.
jediagh 3 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You are a gay idiot. Word on the street is that when you invited Lucas over to your house, you offered him your anus as a vagina because there were no chicks around.
sciphan 3 months ago
@sciphan
Oh, yeah, I'm clearly the idiot in this exchange.
PapistWitness 3 months ago 16
@sciphan I'd do the same only I dont think George is a very good lay.....all those last minute tweaks and revisions.
quidseeker 3 months ago
stop talking without making any breaks. you are 22 now. when the first movies came out you werent even born. neither was i. but when i was a kid and i saw the movies in the theater when they reran the on the big screens in the biggest theater in berlin they stuck with me. and every litle change to them is just making them worse.
chockn 3 months ago
Brilliantly argued. Faved. I thought it was a great addition and should have been there originally
InvincibleNumanist 3 months ago
Great video, but you're still wrong. Lucas has no clue how to make films in narrative order. He describes it as "jazz" but really it's chaos. That is why he has had to retroactively change the original trilogy to make the new shit fit.
Morrgore 3 months ago
I think you may be seeing symbolism where it doesn't exist in some places, but this was a genuinely good defense of the changes. I used to be the biggest Star Wars nerd on the planet and I would defend any and all changes he made to the death. Now I think I can step back and take a much more objective look at it. You're right that he has a right to do what he wants to with his films, but I still think the changes that have nothing to do with updating special effects should be left out of it.
ryanmshepard92 3 months ago
I am a diehard Star Wars fan and even though I disliked the video I'm sorry about that but in some point of view, your logic also makes sence.
But I am in offence of Darth vader's "Noooo!" and IF the voice of Vader of Blu Ray was done by Matt Solan, Who potrayed Darth vader in Empire at war:Force of Corruption and The force Unleashed games I would say to Matt,
"You were supposed to stop George from that disaster, now I am dissapointed at you."
phantombest1220 3 months ago
This is the best video on youtube. Period.
iBlah6666 3 months ago
@iBlah6666
I'm gonna say that's a mild exaggeration, but one I appreciate and encourage you to repeat.
PapistWitness 3 months ago
@PapistWitness Maybe not the best video EVER, but definitely in terms of making an argument for anything related to the prequels or George changes. Expertly said argument. Well done. I'm a part of the younger generation and to me, all six movies are Star Wars. In fact Phantom Menace was the first SW movie I ever saw. I personally prefer the Originals but the other three are just as much a part of me as 4 5 and 6 are. Again, this is fantastic. Keep up the great work!
iBlah6666 3 months ago
Very good argument! I like your argument that if it was in the original we would have liked it. Now, i still say that it's BS for the no to be added, but it's more of "I hate added stuff." I respectfully disagree, but good video!
KmorrisonNCC1701 3 months ago
I can see your point but if he had to say anything it should have been under his breath. Wish they had addressed the continuity issues between Empire and Jedi. Han is frozen wearing a waistcoat with his hands cuffed behind his back but loses both between movies.
LiquidMarvel 3 months ago
The changes are being made to satisfy the occassional whims of Lucas, PERIOD! He's not doing it to piss off the fan boys, he's not doing it to "prove" artistic rights over his work. The series will never be the perfect thing he's trying to make it and that's sad for him. Though you make some interesting points here papi the truth is Lucas has something to prove to himself and we're along for the ride. Maybe we'll get lucky & he'll use the proceeds from the blue ray to get some therapy who knows.
kalelwannabe 3 months ago
@Quikquik98 I thought that Krayt dragon call was hilarious. What was he thinking?
ContinuityGlueVideos 4 months ago
@ContinuityGlueVideos (cont'd) I also think that Vader saying "no" in Return of the Jedi makes sense, and is a nice call-back to Episode III. That is, until the second "no". As vadion12 said below, the first one fits in without much problem, but the second one doesn't feel right. I just wish that Lucas would take more care in the changes so they don't feel forced in or awkward.
ContinuityGlueVideos 4 months ago
I gave your video a like, even though I don't completely agree with you. You made a reasoned, well-thought out argument, and I see where you're coming from. I'm not going to swear at you like these other idiots. Yes, he is the creator and so can change things if he thinks it will make it better. However, his constant niggling has made the original films a little worse. Now, I agree that Vader should show emotion when he learns of Padme's death, but it could have been more subtle not over the top
ContinuityGlueVideos 4 months ago
Kevin smith lost my respect when I heard he liked the star wars prequels!
MarkoFelix 4 months ago
@MarkoFelix
Not when he made *Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back*?
PapistWitness 3 months ago
Charles Dickens changed the ending of Great Expectations in a later edition.
cmsahe 4 months ago
I can understand why fanboys resent the new "NOOOO!" line in ROTJ. The line *does* make that connection to the prequel trilogy and that tells the audience that the legacy of episodes 1-3 has seeped into the Original Trilogy.
I think these changes in the blu-ray editions are just practical jokes played by Lucas in order to rattle the fanboys' monkey cages. I'll admit, though, I lol'd at them.
Say, what do you think of the new "Krayt Dragon Call" that Obi-Wan makes in the Blu-Ray edition?
Quikquik98 4 months ago
As Far as the NOOOO at the end of return of the Jedi, I feel like the first time he says it wheres it's just..."No..." fits pretty well, but the second one thats a rip of episode three doesnt feel right
Vadion12 4 months ago
I didnt even watch the video! Fuck you!
tmzissupergay 4 months ago
@tmzissupergay
God bless you.
Also, go have a scotch or something, dude. You can't go through life this pissy.
PapistWitness 4 months ago
I disagree and I think the "Nooo!" was a really bad choice, BUT I think its a cool idea to put up a video like this, you obviously put a lot of work into it and I enjoyed watching it. Thumbs up!^^
Wedsheport 4 months ago
Comment removed
Wedsheport 4 months ago
I still think that the "Nooo" was a pretty poor choice to put in as it just doesn't sound right, although I don't mind the Ewoks blinking as it's only minor
th3d3storoy3r 4 months ago
He does have the right as an artist to screw with his work.
Whether or not he should do is another matter entirely...
greenpenguino 4 months ago
the original voice is awful because its not as deep and not powerful
TheDEATHSTARIII 4 months ago
Not fond of the "No" but the blinking Ewoks...HELL YES.
rohirrim11rider 4 months ago
i also defend. for the exact same reasons listed in this video. vader was a troubled and tormented soul and it makes perfect sense that in the face of the ultimatum the emperor gave him: watch his son die and suffer being alone and tormented for the rest of his life or redeem himself and finally find some peace, that the 'NOOO' not only sync'd with the passion shown in the Ep.3 ending but also served to remind us that not only has he got some compassion left but he's still passionate til the end
BrEnNo1023 4 months ago
plus it just sounds stupid in the scene
leftovercrunch 4 months ago
i get where you're coming from but i don't think the change was necessary
leftovercrunch 4 months ago
Solid tie, pattern shirt. Pattern tie, solid shirt. Don't pix patterns it looks horrendous.
AssassinTheHasson 4 months ago
@AssassinTheHasson
You're right, but it was the only tie handy that morning. In retrospect, I should have just gone without a tie...
PapistWitness 3 months ago
@PapistWitness Ah, well it's cool. No worries.
AssassinTheHasson 3 months ago
So the Emperor doesn't even get slightly suspicious that Vader might do something to him when he starts shouting NOOOO! NOOOOOOOOO!!!...?
That's why most fans hated it ! It doesn't make fucking sense !
voodoovoodooo 4 months ago
It doesn't annoy me too much that Lucas makes all these alterations. What does bother me is that he refuses to release a Theatrical Cut of the trilogy alongside these altered versions. Blade Runner was different in that even with the bajillion different cuts, the original, unaltered version was still brought to blu-ray in the boxed set. Unless we hold on to our VHS tapes, Lucas has forced us to purchase a product we don't want, just because there is no other alternative.
EinsteinEMP826 4 months ago
@EinsteinEMP826 holy shit you're right...
maybe converting your VHS copies to DVDs and then making backups on your computer is the only way, then. you could probably make copies and give them to your friends, and tell them to tell their friends. dont let the classics fade.
BrEnNo1023 4 months ago
Fuck you! ...didint watch the video
P1kk3 4 months ago
There is no defense. This change was just retarded.
elementengine 4 months ago
George lucas has a right to change Star wars but just remember who pays for his salary. (The fans)
theshakter 4 months ago
And also, great point were made by you good sir! Well done.
Novakastand 4 months ago
THANK YOU! I believe the, "No!" was decent. Although the silence of the original version was stoic, the No brought out some thought from his head. Keep on keepin' on! :D
Novakastand 4 months ago
Would I have thought it was incongruous as luke whining? No.
Would I still have thought it was silly and misplaced? Yes.
I think Luke being a whiner at the beginning of ANH is one of the things that Lucas did not do well, in that Luke is hard to take seriously at first.
jadedflames 4 months ago
What you're saying is true. Liked this video. Dont like when people are being bias.
pokki30 5 months ago
Fuck you!
Fapsamup 5 months ago
@Fapsamup
So I take it you approve of the "NOOO!!", too? I'll mark you down as a supporter.
PapistWitness 5 months ago
you idiot . you must be the only one in favour of changes of the classics
DBNIGHT 4 months ago
@DBNIGHT No I'm not, that's why I said fuck you to the video maker.
Fapsamup 4 months ago
sorry mate . I am one of those fans totally aggravated by the destruction and rape of the classics
DBNIGHT 4 months ago
@DBNIGHT No problem, I am one of those fans who would like to kick George Lucas in the nuts.
Fapsamup 4 months ago
good points
painsey 5 months ago
My problem with the two 'No's isn't that their there just how their delivered.
TronZEROPi 5 months ago
Just because you don't like the changes doesn't mean you're blinded by nostalgia and can't move beyond your childhood. If dubbing Vader's "NO!" into Return of the Jedi works for you, fine; you explained why well enough, but it doesn't work for me and there are plenty of valid criticisms against it.
And the difference between Star Wars and Bladerunner is that you can watch any version of Bladerunner you want on DVD or blu-ray and you can't do that with Star Wars.
germaholic 5 months ago
@germaholic
"And the difference between Star Wars and Bladerunner is that you can watch any version of Bladerunner you want on DVD or blu-ray and you can't do that with Star Wars."
This is where I'm gonna wholeheartedly agree with the haters. Lucas should totally release the original theatrical cut along with his revised editions. I personally suspect he has it in a vault somewhere and has it in his will that it should be released to the public upon his death so he leaves on a high note.
PapistWitness 3 months ago
AND... There's a good reason the "docking bay" was cut out of the original. What really gets me is the terrible continuity mistake within the scene with Chewie. He's walking behind Han and Jabba next to the Falcon, then BAM! He's at the door entrance looking at them, then BAM! he's back beside the Falcon. Clearly its a recycled edit from when Han and Chewie first entered the docking bay. I just don't see the point of Lucas adding MORE mistakes while claiming to "fix" the old ones.
spunkybrewster1972 5 months ago
@spunkybrewster1972 Hedio Kojima does it all the time just a million times worse.
TronZEROPi 4 months ago
Do you apologists not get the concept of subtley? I was 12 years old when I saw this in the theater. Even then I got the idea of Vader's inner conflict. For a second you wonder what he's going to do. That's the tension of the scene. Adding "No" before he acts eliminates any build up. Characters DO NOT need to vocalize every damn thing they are thinking. Vader looking at Luke and then the Emperor you get everything you need to know without a single word.
Lucas hates you.
spunkybrewster1972 5 months ago
@spunkybrewster1972
I agree--emotionally the scene works perfectly fine without the "NOOOO". (I don't think the tension is *wrecked* by it and I suspect that future generations who weren't raised with the NO-less version will be distracted by it.) What the NOOO adds is another level to that emotion by hearkening to his backstory. It provides a more developed context to what he's doing, even though his basic emotions are already obvious.
PapistWitness 3 months ago
The Phantom Editor needs to rise again and redo the whole stupid blue ray set.
MagnusWyvern 5 months ago
One more thing please defend the Jubba scene you know the one that repeats word for word the scene before it.
Tyjohnable 5 months ago
If he really wanted to make Anakin redeemable he could have taken the children and put them on a transport wile telling the Emperor that he had killed them.
Are you really gonna defend the change from killing Mace Windo to slaughtering like 20 or 30 little kids in over 2 scenes?
People like you just can't accept GL made 3 really bad movies and have to make crazy leaps in logic to defend him.
For me it was all over when they left Anakins mom even though they now had money to buy er freedom.
Tyjohnable 5 months ago
The only thing that was changed that had anything to do with technology was the Ewok eyes.
When I first heard the new noise that Obi-Wan makes I really did think it was a joke (sadly I've been so disappointed buy Lucas before that I was pretty sure that Vaders no was real)
Also wasn't Blade Runner released with the original version in the box?
Tyjohnable 5 months ago
@PapistWitness
He can change episodes 1,2, and 3 all he wants cause they suck ass anyway but I wish he would just release the originals unchanged.
These last changes are so bad the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is he was so hurt over the reaction to the new 3 that he's just spitting in the fans faces with changes he knows are stupid.
I don't think anyone could say the nooooo scene adds anything to the film.
Tyjohnable 5 months ago
@Tyjohnable Didn't he do that on DVD? The only original cuts of the prequels.
TronZEROPi 4 months ago
@TronZEROPi
Sorry do what on DVD I said a lot LOL
Tyjohnable 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what your saying is true....from a certain point of view
geesterfunk 5 months ago
Comment removed
geesterfunk 5 months ago
You can't compare cutting out Sebastian to cutting out David Prowse who didn't have the voice for the part and would've made a weaker film. Cutting out a solid actor like Sebastian makes no sense. In terms of hinting at good in Vader, the point is Vader was an armoured, shell hiding inner vulnerability. Even kids picked up on this without needing dumbing down to. When Shakespeare retold folk tales he crafted his plays from scratch. That's art. Altering random bits of a complete film isn't art
sadako24 5 months ago
@sadako24 What are you smoking? A lot of Shakespeare plays are believed to be variants of popular plays of the times. His Hamlet probably wasn't that much different then the other 9000 versions out there.
TronZEROPi 5 months ago
@TronZEROPi Oh, another Lucas apologist fanboy. Of course there's a difference between a playwright writing pages and pages of his own script out of a folk story, and putting real sweat into it from beginning to end, and Lucas just making casual random additions in the middle of the completed script. If you can't see that, you must be a moron
sadako24 5 months ago
@sadako24 Your argument that Shakespeare created all of his works form start to finish because you say so shows that you're the idiot here. Plus, Lucas' additions aren't random and actually serve a purpose and if you weren't such an ass whip maybe you'd be able to see it. Their are story tellers out there that alter their works solely for the purpose of pissing people off and they don't get any of the hate that Lucas does not even if the things added actually change the character.
TronZEROPi 5 months ago
@TronZEROPi I didn't say Shakespeare 'created' his works from start to finish, but he did *craft* them. That thing you do where you're writing pages and pages and are deep in the creative process and the creativity and soul comes out. Involves a certain care and consciousness of where it's all going and what you're trying to say in the moment. Not the same thing as pointing at a screen and saying 'oh I don't like that, lets change that' at all.
sadako24 5 months ago
@sadako24 The people that go out of their way to verbally insult their fan base don't get this much hate.
TronZEROPi 5 months ago
@TronZEROPi I don't 'hate' George Lucas, I just hate the arbitrary decisions he keeps making and I find it irritating and patronising when Lucas defenders try to school people on the proper way they should react to his decisions. Frankly he's taking his own nitpicky frustrations with his own work and forcing them on everyone else. I'm a casual fan of Star Wars at best but in my book defacing any beloved classics of cinema, particularly in this incessant and poorly-judged way should be condemned.
sadako24 5 months ago
dont you think that vader asking luke to join him to rule as father and son doesnt show any love? He could have killed luke if there was no good left.
yarimo 5 months ago
Good points.
clairemayjune 5 months ago
I've never understood why people bash Hayden Christensen all the time. I think he did a great job. And adding him at the end of ROTJ makes so much more sense. If the prequels were the first Star Wars films released people wouldn't be bashing them at all.
jordanmstrong 5 months ago
@jordanmstrong no one thinks hayden christensen is a bad actor. he was just under the influence of a terrible director.
anime1973 5 months ago
@jordanmstrong "If the prequels were the first Star Wars films released people wouldn't be bashing them at all."
If the prequels were the first Star Wars films released people wouldn't have bothered going to see them.
sadako24 5 months ago
If he were to update the theatrical version along with every other version he decides to do I've got no problem with it. But the fact is, he doesn't do this. The last original theatrical release of the film in a 16:9 widescreen format was on video in the 90's. He eventually released the original theatrical cut on dvd later but it was in 4:3. As far as I no he did not release a dvd version with a 16:9 format. And now he's released a blu-ray version that is not the original.
HamGreenandEggs 5 months ago
the added jabba scene confused me. why would there be a scene where han kills a bounty hunter... or better put why would there be a bounty on han when all it took was ONE meeting with jabba five minutes later to smooth things out? Jabba seemed more annoyed that han dumped his cargo then pissed off enough to put a hit on him.
anime1973 5 months ago
you can't defend the 'no'. Even if you think that a scene showing vader as being a vulnerable human being is a good idea it should have been done in a far less, laugh out loud, campy way. once you remove the justification for the 'no' in sith you negate the reason in jedi as there wouldn't be anything to 'echo'
anime1973 5 months ago
You're biggest argument is "You just don't like it because it's not what you grew up with." But that's not why I'm against it. I'm against it because he's altering a finished work of art, and trying to bury the original works. In 150 years when historians refer to the ancient film known as Star Wars, they will have trouble appreciating the film for what it was in it's time of conception.
I'm against altering art. Black and white movies shouldn't be colorized. Star Wars needs the same repect.
Kachukeland 5 months ago
Agree 100%
NotOrdinaryInGames 5 months ago
some good points. If he originally had a vocal reaction to his son being killed it would show him more human. he comes back a bit to save his son in the end, luke helps him see the light. Perhaps its just the way he says no that is bad. Especially in the rots scene (cringe) maybe a bit more anger in his voice would help. He did just crush the room. anyway its not a deal breaker for me.
klaasv 5 months ago
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
FelixTheory 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
FelixTheory 6 months ago
The reason why "I" am against the "NO" line in Jedi is because it overkills the meaning, it more intrigue seeing what he is doing rather then what he is saying.
The reason why Vader reacts and trows the Emperor down the chaff was not because of the prequels, it was because of his son was about to get killed!
The "NO" did not improve anything, it is just made for people who don´t want to think when they see a film. "Actions speaks louder then words".
FelixTheory 6 months ago
Just because of this change, half of you are cancelling your orders? Come on you assholes! Its not your movie to decide things on.
rancor022 6 months ago
I'm pretty sure David Prowse was ok with Lucas NOT using him as the voice for Vader. It just didn't work very well and so David would do the voicing anyway so the actors knew how to react to him aware that the real dialogue would be added in later. Same was done to Ray Park who played Darth Maul. That's not comparable to cutting an actor out of the picture. His contribution was still important you see. Anyway, I like your other points though I still think the moments end up corny and jarring.
yarealpoof 6 months ago
Good arguments man regardless of the changes I can't wait for Star Wars BluRay can't wait!
manic221 6 months ago
He doesn't care about the 'fan' community, he has shown that time and time again. He is doing it for profit. You use the example of Ridley Scoot doing a directors cut of BR but this is totally different because Scott has no problem with releasing an original version. When directors change and edit their films they call it a director's cut. I
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg I have to keep stopping and rewinding this video because I don't think your arguments hold up very well. You give Lucas way too much credit. What George is doing to Return of the Jedi isn't even a director's cut because he didn't direct the film. It is a producer's cut. Just because he directed THX a long time ago in a galaxy far far away doesn't mean he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Just look at the prequels, they are a mess by all standards, and they get worse from Phantom
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Critics who praise or give good reviews Revenge of the Sith aren't honest and it isn't proof it is a good film. In fact after watching Revenge of the Sith a few days ago I think it is the worst of the prequels long before the Darth Vader Noooo scene. In fact I loved the Darth Vader noo and was waiting for it cause it made me laugh and I knew the film would be over soon. The art of film is to show, not tell. By having Vader telegraph his actions in the ROTJ scene destroys the drama
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg What made the scene so good was that the fact that Vader has no facial expression yet the emotion and decision is so clear. George Lucas does not remedy the fact that Vader was never 'good' or had good, they make it worse by having Anakin be a completely power obsessed whiny bitch. In the prequels he was never a hero we could sympathize with anyway. Everything Anakin does in the prequels is incredibly selfish. He was never a hero or good guy in the prequels, cept when he was a kid
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Ultimately Vader can never be fully redeemed. There was good in him, but that doesn't mean that he could every have come back to the light after the things he had done. Anakin is supposed to lose himself to Vader and once he is Vader he shouldn't care about Padme. Besides Padme should never have died anyway, it doesn't make sense because Leia implies in ROTJ that she knew her mother as a young child
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Vader just doesn't need to say Noo, it goes against the language of cinema, the mix is so bad also cause he just talks right over Luke's pleading. At first it also makes it sound like Vader is saying no to Luke. Like No I won't help you. It destroys the power of the scene. If it was originally in the film had watched it as a kid obviously I wouldn't care. But as an adult I would have noticed. This is at the heart of this argument.
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Liking Star Wars isn't entirely about nostalgia. The films aren't good because I liked them as a child. They are genuinely great films. I liked the prequels as a child, but now I can see right through them. And this poetry you are talking about isn't even really there because the story of the prequels isn't really consistent with the Original Trilogy. Everyone points to that Toshi power converters thing, but be honest, Mark Hamil was a great actor as Luke, Hayden was not as Anakin
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Even Hamil's reaction to finding out Vader is Luke's father is really good, albeit kind of cheeze because he can show his emotions so well, unlike Hayden. Once again back to the issue of Nostalgia, this has very little to do with nostalgia. I don't give a shit about Ewoks blinking or not blinking. But adding Nooo to that scene contradicts what the scene is about and it takes away the powerful emotion of that scene. George Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, he made it great.
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg He is mildly annoying my adultohood. And omg how can you even defend the change to Hayden. It isn't bad because it is disrespectful to shaw, it just doesn't make any logical sense. Why would Luke see Hayden Anakin? You yourself said that Darth turns back to Anakin at the end of Jedi. George totally put Hayden in to fuck over anyone who wants to forget the prequels, it is pretty clear. And David Prouse? Are you serious.
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg Lucas said multiple times he never intended Prowse to be the voice ever. Wow, ridiculous argument. This video totally falls apart at the end with this Prowse thing. Prowse though he would be in Jedi when the mask comes off, but never thought he would be the actual voice. Anyway, good of you to express your opinion, but I don't agree that I am upset because he changed it from the way it was. I don't mind special edition enhancements or whatever, but changing the drama of a scene bad
ShootEvrythg 6 months ago
@ShootEvrythg It makes more sense that we would see Anakin as he was in life. Why would he look like an old man with hair and eyebrows when he never had those things? That would be like Yoda's ghost having a mohawk. Remember the Matrix' concept of "residual self image?" Obviously, Anakin sees himself as a young man before he got burned up, not as some old guy who never existed. Also obvious, you don't like it because it's a CHANGE. You wouldn't give a damn if the PT came out first.
AGEOFAENYA 5 months ago
@AGEOFAENYA It doesn't make any sense that we would see Anakin as Hayden. Wake up - at the end of Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader turns back into Anakin, we see the old man Anakin under the mask. So it makes perfect sense that he is an old man force ghost. It makes Zero logical sense that we would see Hayden. Mark Hamil is way more talented that Hayden, he has more talent in his little pinky than Hayden. Just look at what Hamil has done with the Joker.
ShootEvrythg 5 months ago
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
AGEOFAENYA 5 months ago
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
AGEOFAENYA 5 months ago
@ShootEvrythg OK, then you should be upset that Sebastian Shaw has hair and eyebrows and a fully "not-cracked" skull. After all, doesn't Yoda and Obi-Wan look the way they did when they died? Where does ghost hair come from? And ghost Jedi robes for that matter? Did he get them from the ghost shopping mall? Would you expect the ghost of Obi-Wan to appear suddenly without a beard? You're only upset because this ruins your memories, but it makes a lot more sense in the scheme of a six film saga.
AGEOFAENYA 5 months ago