Chavez phony paradise

[CaptainRedHat]

He has done so little for the poor in his four years in power that all the poor worship him like a god.(sarcasm)

Socialism = Equality so fuck off zionist capitalists with your charecture assasination campaign of lies lies lies.

Zionism has no ethical limits, its only goal is to serve the so called zionist elite. funny, hitler believed in elite blodd line theory too....no suprise there!

[rulllar]

lowlife racist, I was there, none of your rehashed nonsense (thats all you seem to offer... no actual insight, just rehashed junk) can fool me.

I was there for two months, I saw the problems and poverty and governmental abuse.

And at oil constantly growing in price for years, it's no wonder he had a bit more cash.

Doesn't take a genius to work out you can do wonders when your budget triples! Even then many of the projects are utterly failing now due to inflation crushing the poor.

[CaptainRedHat]

I bare witness to your corruption and lies in this life ruller. You have no standards. im not even sure how you look yourself in the mirror in the morning knowing that you impose no limits of behavior on yourself whilst you preach to others good behavior. You are by definition the scum of the earth. Lies to you are but a means to an end. You know it, i know it.

[rulllar]

what a way to not respond to the facts, avoid them altogether, and make personal attacks on me.

Face it, thats all you have done in all your comments. Not a single one of your comments has been original, insightful, or intelligent.

[CaptainRedHat]

why bother to respond to lies? its not me thats going to have to pay the price of them. you have no standards ruller. you know it, i know it, you can write all day but we both know that you see lying as legit. Truth needs no lies, Truth needs only truth, what is criminal need more lies. thats the fundamental truth. If you were on the side of truth you would need no lies. again. you know it, i know it.

[rulllar]

Nothing you have ever said to me has been truthful, except when you are being racist.

The reasons you avoid any factual discussion and instead opt to calling me names... is simple: You don't know anything.

No amount of telling me I'm lying or your racist rants will change that.

You know nothing.

Your attacks on me don't change that, ever.

[CaptainRedHat]

when you go to bed tonight ruller knowing that you spread lies on this planet about venuswala know too that you knowingly impose no ethical limits on yourself whilst you preach honesty to others. know how easy it is to catagorise all behavior as "for the cause" and therefore give yourself a liscence to lie about anything you wish. know that by definition you are a lieing hypocrite who acts and speaks with no fear of gods laws on yourself. and i bare witness for a day apointed.

[CaptainRedHat]

PS. the reason i anger you so much ruller is because the torch of truth is always very blinding. :)

[rulllar]

i'm waiting for the truth from you.

I've had nothing but lies, except when you are puking your racism against Jews, then I can see your true self.

[rulllar]

But alas, I've given you enough of my time. I've offered you OVER 15 CHANCES TO MAKE A SINGLE FACTUAL STATEMENT. You have not. So our discussions are finished.

[CaptainRedHat]

Your a zionist jew...chaves is critical of Israel so like all typical zionists you attempt to politicaly assasinate him with lies, but what do you care?. your a chosen one and your behavior and lies does not decide your charecture as the talmud teaches. your elite blood takes care of everything right?. Explain that theory to god when you see him as i am witness to your shameless corruption of the truth.

[rulllar]

Here we go again with your racism.

Don't you know Israel was set up as a secular state? Do you know absolutely nothing?

The original zionist enterprise was secular, not religious. The majority of religious Jews are zionist-neutral, not actually zionists in an open fashion! You really are stupid and you show it with every new comment.

Plus it has nothing to do with Chavez's failures. I don't need Israel to see Chavez is a failure.

You are beyond stupid. You are in a new category of stupid.

[CaptainRedHat]

This is the problem with so many jews, they call themselves jews yet dont believe in god. so you are a race? if so then you believe in your jewish blood line theory? or not?...dont see the stupidity of your own thinking?...lol

you are either a jew and believe in racist blood line theory as taught in the tanak or you believe in one mankind and one race. my bet is you will only ever show your love and loyalty to those of your blood theory yet you will like most jews deny god exists symaltaniously

[rulllar]

One of the ways to define Jews is by having a Jewish mother. Thats written in the torah and so accepted by the religious mr unknowledgeable.

Muslims do it with fathers, other religions/groups do it in their ways.

Just like I knew many "arabs" in my school although they were half english. They saw themselves as "arabs" and viewed the "arab" world as their natural habitat.

It's quite common. It happens in virtually every quarter of society.

You really are stupid to make the case you make.

[CaptainRedHat]

Chaves has only been in power for about 4 years when he over run the old capitalist system that caused all this poverty. Chaves has done more to correct poverty in his short rein than any prior ruller achieved in decades. So please do not try to manipulate the truth like a typical zionist prick whos only hobby is to puke up endless shameless manipulation and lies. The funny part is that you zionist wonder why you are so hated...lol

[rulllar]

Chavez has been in power for 10 years. Inflation is at 30 percent. It was at 18 percent when I was there.

Show me one poor person, especially in a nation like venezuela, that even gets a 3 percent payrise!

The poor have been strangled by his mass spending thats caused large-scale devaluation of the currency, making everything expensive. Not to mention the massive drop in oil exports under him.

But with a 10 year olds understanding of economics like yours, you wouldn't be able to grasp that.

[darv419]

rulllar's absolutely right. Even if Venezuela has always been very poor, it'd never been like this. One of Chavez's promises on 1998 before being elected was that he'd do everything to eliminate poverty. And he really has, but to eliminate poverty in Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Iran, China and lots of more countries around the world, not in Venezuela

[rulllar]

don't forget subsidies for London's 'poor'. While poor everywhere need help, I really don't think the average "poor" londoner, hard as their financial life is, can be compared to a poor Venezuelan. What a misuse of money that could've provided education or business loans to provide new jobs in Venezuela.

[jeol17]

the country has always been like that

[rulllar]

i'm not sure if you mean that in a good way or a bad way... in either case it hasn't always been the way it is. It's true that it has been poverty striken for it's history, but in the mid-upper end of the 20th century (give or take a decade) many people from the area moved in.. doctors, professors. Businesses opened

Today they are the ones fleeing the fastest and closing businesses... so something has changed dramatically.

[Jada54]

and i suppose you wanted to go from 80% poverty to first world overnight. You are quite ambitious

[rulllar]

I specifically mentioned not first world. You ignored that and instead decided to mention exactly what I specifically said nobody expects.

I expect after 10 years of Chavez, and after sooooooooooo much more funding than any of the gov's before him, that he would've at least helped decrease poverty, lower crime, increase employment. On ALL those he has failed.

After 10 years his massive failures FAR FAR outweigh the gains. His biggest gain is international popularity amongst anti-americans.

[rulllar]

and i'm not sure how many venezuelans prefer anti-american popularity from the middle east, parts of europe to actual jobs, a brighter future, lower crime.

I would say very few.

[Jada54]

and elections.

[rulllar]

most dictators have elections. They just rig it or control the media (That too chavez does). They don't allow mass protests (many gov workers were fired after voting against him).

All the usual signs of a dictator can be attributed.

[Jada54]

Chavez is not a dictator. Dictators do not have referendums.

[rulllar]

he tried to overthrow the gov in 92 by military force (coup) and failed. He "won" his referendum in 2003, yet there was widespread belief he lost and when the detailed results came out, they actually said he lost. They were withdrawan and new, "corrected" results came out showing he clearly won.

In the election that Jimmy Carter said was without flaw, many boxes of ballots were found dumped later on mountain tops.

Saddam hussein had referendums, doesn't make him not a dictator.

[Jada54]

again I repeat former governments took the profits from the oil and ran with it, not to mention the exploitation by the big oil companies.

[rulllar]

please provide full evidence for what you have said. Where is the evidence they pocketed the money?

What about all the MASSIVE corruption claims amounting to MANY BILLIONS (which in venezuela is a lot more than in the UK or US) by the Chavez administration? You seemed to not mention those?

[Jada54]

the evidence is in your film

[rulllar]

that's not evidence. Much of the construction in my film is from Chavez' period. So why blame former gov's for some of that construction?

Anyway that doesn't answer my point about the billions said stolen by Chavez gov?

[Jada54]

The reason the previous governments did not have any money is because they spent it on themselves and the big oil companies.If they had spent it on the poor to try and lift them out of poverty we would not be having this conversation now.

[rulllar]

maybe, but past governments arn't an excuse for chavez's behaviour and policies and dictatorship style rule. Not to mention self-obsession (see recent case with columbia where he has basically frozen ties with another nation because he was personally hurt by their leadership).

[rulllar]

the reality is still this. 10 years in to chavez's rule, with absolute power to make changes and MASSIVE huge influx of oil revenues which made him lucky enough to have funding for lots of programmes he wanted to implement, venezuela is still a poverty-stricken nation, the shanty towns are growing or holding steady, businesses are closing. Murders are up many times over (400%? 500%?). Whatever happened before, he has no excuses after 10 years with funding former gov's couldn't dream about.

[Jada54]

actually i should say the problem was centuries in the making. Your sense of history is very brief.

[rulllar]

centuries in the making? Not quite. Venezuela discovered oil in the mid 1900's. For a period it was flourishing. It was no first world nation, but it was developing, intelligent people were moving in not out. The situation obviously changed long before Chavez, but after nearly 10 years of him in power I see clearly the poor are as poor as ever and whats changed is that the smart (top doctors, professors, people willing to take a chance and start a business) are leaving on mass.

[rulllar]

His economic policies only exist because of oil revenues. Before he took over oil worldwide was at 'record lows'. That means the gov before him made very little money. In fact it was in this period that he was thrown out. After oil became 2-3x as expensive, he had lots of money to throw in all directions. That was luck, not good management. Even with all this unemployment is as high as ever, top people are fleeing, constant new construction in the barrios (shanty towns).

[Jada54]

I have to say that the poverty you see there was decades in the making , it did not just spring up when Chavez entered office.

And I have a question why is it now you are highlighting the plight of the venezuelan poor. Have you always been an activist for the poor or did president Chavez open your eyes to rot that latin america has been suffering since the spanish invaded.

[rulllar]

why I now? Well i'm 24 so it's not like i've been around for decades. And I have family in Venezuela. Middle class people who have suffered greatly under him. Not rich, let me add (as often if I mention I have family there who suffer under him i'm accused of having rich family that stole the wealth of the nation). So i've known about affairs in venezuela since the early 90's - like about his attempt to overthrow the democratic government with his military dictatorship in 92.

[figoyrui]

tooo bad you were only outside the airport....

[rulllar]

I was a bit further than just outside the airport. Checked out places like the outskirts of Caracas as well as central areas like san bernardino and I think it was called Sambil shopping center. Quite a few other places too but I don't remember all the names any more.

Oh don't forget that mountain town between the airport and caracas. On my way to Caracas we took a trip through the mountain village.

[BaaloulCity]

well i live in Venezuela , and i have gone to tha us i loved a very big part of that country but belive me not all of there are places that might be in a better looking than these but at the buttom its just like a plastic mask all over the place

[Kaisch]

The fact of showing those "villa miseria" houses is not imperative from Chavez government. It's a fact that occured years ago with other governments. So, this alone is not a solid proof of Chavez actions.

All the current situation is the product of economic unequality, from poverty, from people thas has been in a form of slavery from rich and powerful.

[rulllar]

no. you are wrong. many of these are new. Maybe it's hard to make out on the photos in my YT vid, but it was quite clear there's plenty of new construction when there.

furthermore, if everything was "equal" venezuela would all be poor. The rich few millionaires handing out all their cash equally amongst the masses would've meant everyone was a few dollars richer and little more. The gov failed policies of job creation are the main problem.

[rulllar]

as for "slavery". What nonsense. since he's put up many new levies and taxs on "the rich" (you need to remember by "rich" in venezuela means little here) unemployment has jumped. New laws about suing your workplace has also caused a situation that even good workplaces are sued by workers who think they can gain out of it. It's simple to generalize the problem as economic inequality but it's a very different situation and chavez has thrown petrol on the fire .. lots of petrol.

[SAJse]

When people cease to have a free vote, then I'll call Chavez a dictator. And if he WAS a dictator then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't try to extend the amount of consecutive terms he can run for. At least, I don't recall Hitler bothering with such trivial matters.

[rulllar]

why do all dictators need to be unelected? Firstly where is your research about the referendum he made in the early 2000's? They found many barrels of votes thrown up in the mountains. Secondly they released the "official stats of his victory" which shows he lost. then they withdrew it and released the "corrected" numbers. Hmm. Interesting.

[rulllar]

lastly, EVEN assuming he won every election, which I strongly dispute - based on evidence like the masses of votes found dumped in the mountains, even assuming he won fair and square, that isn't the only requirement for "dictator or not?". His leadership is clearly a dictatorship even if we assume the elections are fair. There are no checks, no balances, no way to really confront him. He has the power of kings. That is a dictator even if such a person won 50.00001% or more of the vote.

[SAJse]

You talk like the whole country threw him out even though he had support among the populace and within the military. And working with the enemy (CIA) makes you a fifth columnist. Like him or not, at least Chavez's coup was somewhat legitimate by comparison.

[rulllar]

oh yeah cos he doesn't have socialist/communist support from cuba and others? Who do you think is helping him get his program across? I guess if it's not a US force then it's not a problem to you? Only working with the US makes you "illegitimate" and working with cuban directives makes you "legitimate".

[EforceOri]

Excuse me, who are you to judge venezuela's situation?

[rulllar]

I'm a guy who spent 2 months there. I also had family who lived there in the 90's who see how it's changed. mi familia que vivia aja pueden a ver como es mucho mas peligroso y ay mucho mas problemas de que tenian quando vivian aja.

[SAJse]

If I'd survived a coup and was constantly being undermined by fifth columnists, the world's only superpower (lol), and the most notorious intelligence agency in the world then I'D hire sheep too.

The decree thing is stupid but, y'know, they can always vote him out in five years.

[rulllar]

"they can always vote him out in 5 years" is basically a dictatorship. He can make whatever law he wants without parliament, he has CREATED the friction with the US, the coup was by the people, the army brought him back. How can the people who elected everyone before him be 5th coloumnists? If you recall, he made a COUP ATTEMPT in 1992!! HE TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE NATION WITH THE MILITARY. The traitor and 5th columnist is him. He showed he despises the people's opinions/democratic process.

[rulllar]

therefore, whether or not you hate bush, Chavez is still a dictator

[SAJse]

Chavez > American puppet regime

He speaks hate about George Bush because the US has raped South America and backed many tyrants. He wouldn't even have to defend himself in the first place if it wasn't for scaremongers and hypocrites like Bush calling him an evil fascist commie dictator every five seconds.

[rulllar]

joker. Not quite.

He has got his chavistas party (sheeps that do what he says that he has as a political party that is in charge) to give him the power to "declare laws by decree". By decree? What is he a king? Thats a full on dictatorship. You saying he wouldn't have to defend himself from being called these things when he does EXACTLY those things doesn't prove anything.

[revolutionary1911]

I'm not saying that Chavez is a good president because to be honestly I don't know much about him. What I know about him makes me like him though but I'm not going to pick any sides because I know too little. Anyway, I could bring up alot of photos why capitalism doesn't work, I could prove to you why our system will eventually be the end of the human race and why this system needs poor people to function.

[revolutionary1911]

I could also continue and show photos of misery in the US. I could show what your government is doing to the rest of the world. I could continue for hours but I won't, Chavez is democratically elected the same way Bush is, and the rest of your terrorising war presidents who pisses on the poor.

[rulllar]

Chavez was democratically removed in a referendum in 2003 where they altered the results. Later they accidentily published the real results and quickly withdrew it saying "it was the incorrect figures" and then published results showing a clear victory for him.

Many ballot boxes from the referendum were later found dumped on the mountains...

some democratic victory.

[rulllar]

furthermore I'm not from the US. and yes, you could choose some photos from the US. It's not hard to find.

however the ENTIRE SIDE of the capital city were like those photos. and entire swaths of the city were like these "houses".. it wasn't a few it was shocking. I live in the UK and i've seen some nasty "council estates" (gov run housing). Run down areas. But this was shocking and the extent was shocking

[rulllar]

Now it's not his fault of course, much of this has existed for decades, but 8 years in to his rule there was no sign of these vanishing and there was clearly much "new" construction of what I can only loosely call "housing". Their inflation is crazy. Every month prices are up... considering oil is so expensive things should be improving quickly. Some bits are (VERY low level education) but others are being manipulated heavily and some other things are just failing miserably.

[77Kyle77Nelson77]

amen. get the word out: "Socialismo no funciona!"

[rulllar]

whether it functions or not - it isn't in venezuela for sure.

When I was there they were building a bridge (to replace one recently before seriously damaged in a storm I was told). I was explained how they take 3 weeks to put in every "post" on the bridge whereas a similar bridge in France was taking no more than 4 days each.

[farber207]

Thanks for the excellent pictures! Ha! Socialism at it's best! Chavez is a dictator thug who has demeaned Venezuela. He rigged the election and now, anyone who can is leaving the country. Boycott Venezuelan oil!

[realryan1]

hijo de puta, no mereces la vida..le echas mierda al pais ke te dio la vida y te dio el "acento"...mal parido..me provoca partirte esa cara de pelotudo ke tenes...tenes pinta de gallo(nerd) recentido..puto!! e infinitas veces mas putooo!!! me cago en tu maldita mal parida madre..!!

[rulllar]

muy lindo. no tienes nada que podes a decir porque no sabes nada (como que ahora podemos a ver porque solo tienes "puta" "puta" "puta"). Que Mierde. no sabes NADA. SABES NADA DE la politica de venezuela todon que miran los boludos que escriviste pueden a ver. Solo a decir una algo malo y otra algo malo. Que desecho de mi tiempo. Vaya aprenda algo antes usted comenta otra vez.

[realryan1]

y es mas..antes de engañar a la gente, primero pratica bien el acento..ke todavia te falta muucho.. despues le mamás la concha a tu madre..mal parido!...vende patria es lo ke sos vos..ke ahora te la tiras de extranjero...puto!!

[realryan1]

jajaja...sos un hijo de puta inmaduro..y a la levez re-ridiculo..en tu acento se nota ke tu lengua nativa no es el ingles..asi ke vos no sos ni gringo ni ingles..puto de mierda!! madura!! hijo de puta!! capaz y naciste en petare!! y te la das de burro enzapatado...puto y diez mil veces mas! putoo! hijo de tu maldita puta madre!..me caes re-mal..

[realryan1]

re-puto de mierda!!..me caes demasiado mal cuando respondes en español y lo escribes como si no fueras gringo...puto!! la concha d tu madre!! dejate de pendejadas y escribe bien!! pelotudo!!!

[realryan1]

jajaja, pana, tu crees ke uno es estupido?? no te la tires de gringo chimbo..y porfavor, si vas a responder en español, por favor hazlo bien...no te la des ke no sabes..cuando hablas, en tu acento, se nota ke jode ke eres latino..en este caso venezolano...hijo de puta!! y otra vaina!..saca esa mierda de acá..no soy chavizta..para nada, pero pana, estas dejando mal parada mi ciudad, caracas nojoda!! hijo de mil puta!!

[warren25suxcox]

Thanks for the video

[GORDAPEROZO]

last point. how can u even dare to say that health service isnt good and we dont use anestisia and stuff. the best thing chavez has done is for healthcare and out free charge cancer, tumor, eye surgeries. damn man gotta get facts straight before posting a video that says venezuelan socialism is crap.

viva la revolucion, dont post without knowing.

[rulllar]

Sorry my msg didn't show up. I know of medicines that were unavailable when I was there. But it's only a list I knew about as a foreigner.. i'm sure doctors have much bigger lists. My family there works in getting import licenses for test kids (like testing for illness). they say it can take YEARS to get a simple license for a simple test kit. You may see an imporvement in healthcare, but i'm telling you it's clear people are dying FOR NOTHING EXCEPT CHAVEZ's beurocracy and problems.

[rulllar]

I also point out that since me and you agree that people who own jobs and treat people are fleeing, it can only harm the country. If a rich busienssman leaves, it's not just his money, it's the jobs of the 1? 10? 20? 50? people he hired. They become jobless. I have heard from an accountant there how this has happened to thousands of poor people. Loosing jobs because Chavez's moves forced out business owners (many of whom weren't rich in the first place).

[rulllar]

As for the oil, it wasn't thanks to him it's up to 55$ a barrel, it's thanks to Iraq. My point is that the ppl before him didnt have much money from oil so couldn't fund all these programs, he has all this money and yet the job situation is getting worse, there are phramacies everywhere being shut down, it's hard to get test kits and crime is up a L-O-T (which doesn't happen when countries are improving). Venezuela has a lot of good things I saw but a lot of problems from what Chavez has done.

[GORDAPEROZO]

hmm, i would like to reasearch more about those health kits, but i can say though that the barrel money is not only from iraq, thats why many of the oposition blame chavez for inflation and stuff, thats why bolivar has gone up so high, from 100 bs to 2000.

thanks for respecting my opinion, chavez is not perfect, but he has a good point of hating the US gov foreing policy and the oligarchy that controlled this country for 50 years. remember, he was poor himself-

[rulllar]

I respect your opinion because I have no reason not to. But the problem is he is employing people on oil money to do jobs that don't make the country new money. It's not factories and high-tech that they work in to create a better venezuela.. it's mostly lower-end jobs (I saw LOTS of people cutting grass and cleaning the streets on the highway). The poor have jobs, and thats great. But it doesn't provide them much of a future.

[rulllar]

The future comes from oppertunities and I think it's much better (historically) for business owners (who are called the rich even though many are not that rich) to provide oppertunities for workers to learn and move up in the world.. just like here in the UK. I know venezuela is far off but I think causing the rich to leave or be scared of investing in their businesses won't help the poor improve much more than the most basic level.

[GORDAPEROZO]

yes i guess you are right about this, there are a lot of worker jobs instead of more tech advanced jobs and more "educated jobs" ones as well. But, what would you expect Chavez to do to thousands of people without an education or proffessions? he has to give small jobs, however they are still jobs. i bet you saw them all in red shirts an stuff, thats quite normal since he wants to outline that he is the one that is giving jobs now and stuff.

[rulllar]

Yeah. I don't know.. i don't expect him to perform miracles... but scaring the rich to leave definately isn't a good idea as far as i'm concerned. Neither is threatening the US consistantly. He hates busniesses, but they are the ones that make stuff for export. If he convinced more USEFUL factories to open etc that would be great. Poor countries almost always get rich from export not wealth redistribution... in my opinion at least.

[GORDAPEROZO]

Ok, yes, most of the rich man are fleeing, but just wonder what kind of people they are? they are the ones who gave slave wages to workers and stuff, and chavez has created a lot of jobs (not THAT much, but still)and let me point out that rich people fleeing is a very small minority.

[rulllar]

I agree. I also agree that the past governments r the ones who failed to educate the poor which is one of the things that led to Chavez's election, and so they are just as responsible. All I said was that I think he has made a lot of mistakes, and that a lot of things have gotten worse. As for him creating jobs... Jobs in Industry and finance create money for Venezuela. The jobs he gave just spend the money thats ALREADY in Venezuela.... they don't make the country money which is unfortunate.

[GORDAPEROZO]

about the future of this people, chavez has created a lot of misiones (missions) that help poor people re educate themselves, yes there are several missions. try looking for mision ribas (high school education) misio robinson (read and write education) and hes creating a new one that will allow free college ed, (im not too sure about the last one). yes you are right, this educations will not compare to the private ones that middle - high class have, but an education is an education.

[rulllar]

And I said that I think it was a BIG failure of past governments who failed to give even read-write education to people. But I have heard that the high-level education has suffered. That the NEW venezuelan doctors don't know anywhere near what they should as doctors when they finish. I heard Law is now 1-2 years instead of 4-6...

[rulllar]

I say this because a old doctor I met went from Caracas university to study at Harvard. Today few students get in because Caracas uni isn't what it use to be (so i'm told)... I worry for Venezuela. These problems were there b4 him.. but is he solving them or merely improving them? I have family in Venezuela, I want things to improve.. I worry in 20 years people will still be mostly cleaning instead of starting to open lots of factories etc like china.

[rulllar]

a mi me duele a ver mucho personas que estan muy intellijente empesar a ablar de salir lo mas temprano que pueden, sabes? Es difficile a ver personas que vivian toda la vida en Venezuela ablar de que tienen miedo que la poquito plata que tienen de travajar a 15? 20 anyos, no lo ban a poder a sakar si esperan mucho mas etc... I know that at least they have options.. but it's still sad to see people who love their country so much (and are smart and useful to it) talk like that.

[mohhaz]

having being controlled for long period of time sure effect the socioeconomic and their culture. Most country that had been colonized(controlled) have very low confident level to raised up as a nation. having said that it need a revolutionary jump start, which lead to make people to believed that can do it on their own. It would take a minimal a generation to change such complex believed system that had been developed all this while.

[mohhaz]

Chinese revolution had been a help to what china istoday.Despite being invaded by Japan(short while) it have their own pride as a nation to go forward. We used to embargo British product ie slogan : "Buy British last" in order to detached our subconscious mind that we cannot move without our "ex master" being with us. Our leader at that time of course had been branded negatively. But those action help our nation to move forward and we had vision to be developing country by 2020.

[mohhaz]

Sorry typo:- developed by 2020. Maybe Chavez may seems a bit radical in his move, but I understand his intention from a developing country point of view. The movement in Latin America countries show the frustration of being the state what they are now, and detach them self from the US influence. It should take at lease 10-20 years( normally 1 generation) to see the real effect what they are heading now.

[rulllar]

Maybe. But in Chile's case (i'm talking purely economics), Chile is now closing in on becoming "first world" for much of it's population and it's maintaining growth well. Chavez has been having 20% growth with 30% inflation. Venezuela is as oil revenue dependent as it was. you said 10-20 years, he has been in power 8. I didn't feel the normal people felt better off. Maybe the v poor, but ppl I met said they can't afford basic things any more and high crime. They did not speak of improvements.

[rulllar]

Now I havn't been to Chile so I won't take it as a certainty, but ppl visiting Argentina, Chile said very good things about how they changed when they became economically more liberal. I realize he was elected as things were real bad... i'm just asking if he's taking good steps or is he just lucky Iraq caused oil to jump up in price and as that slowly goes down Veneuzeula will be in trouble as he hasn't helped businesses grow since ppl r scared of investing.

[GORDAPEROZO]

was that directed to me?

[wiselblower]

ViVa Hugo Chavez!!, Hero to countries oppressed by Americans. We were in your shoe before. Is not easy to lead a country that once being intervine by foreign power. They Brand anybody that not bow to them. Stick to your revolution and true freedom, thats what truly indipendence. Free your mind,soul and material from relying from foreign powers. Long Live Venuzuela!!!

[rulllar]

Ok. Thanks for your comment I guess. As for true freedom, does that include the dictatorship powers he has just granted himself? I don't tihnk thats freedom for the people of venezuela. But again, Thanks for your comment since you don't seem to care what things are like there but rather just care about anti-americanism no matter the price.

[GORDAPEROZO]

3)lol millions and millions suffer under him? now you our sounding like our own rich from here. You taped the barrios, but did you go into them? i have. 4) when the country was controlled by the oligarchy (us supported) WE SOLD OIL FOR $13 BARREL, that answers why he is producing less oil for more cash. were did you get the info that prisons were emptied? weve captured 14 big narcos in the past few months, NO PRISON HAS BEEN EMPTIED

[rulllar]

I'll get you the data on the prisoners when I can (although real data is difficult to get since Chavez has fired many normal people after the 2002 coup and replaecd them with chavistas). As for the barrios, I have had to go through a few very tiny ones. I admit I have limited experience. I was put off after 2 people were shot in one in san bernardino next to the centro medico's entrada emerjencia where I was waiting for a taxi.

[GORDAPEROZO]

dude, im from venezuela, and yes you are right in a few points. 1) most educated land owners, doctors, etc do want to flee the country, i think your intelligent enough to know. 2) yes crime has indeed gone up, HOWEVER it is going up by police corruption and OVERPOPULATION chavez does not control crime, and hardly does he control corruption

[rulllar]

I appriciate your support in the first message. I have family in Venezuela. I have other family that USE TO live in Venezuela in 91-93. They both discuss how things have gotten much more dangerous and good jobs are gone. The people that I met were always very nice to me in Venezuela, very polite (Buenos dias when entering a lift? never hear that in UK), and the country is beautiful. That doesn't mean that I didn't see the many problems, many of them new not old.

[wiselblower]

Yes the country is a mess, infact before he took office. Why? The same happened to most Latin American Country. Who involve in those country politics all this while. He just realise the truth and want to divert from continuing beeing enslave by US.

[rulllar]

It was a mess before.

Thats not the point. It has gotten WORSE! Crime has more than doubled (thats an unbelievable amount worse!). Unemployment is up. gov revenues (most from Oil) are up greatly due to oil prices increasing over 5x since he took office. Has that HUGE surplus helped? Inflation is out of control, crime is out of control, unemployment is out of control. You can blame the US, but you are blinding yourself to the fact that he is an utter failure who blames the US for his failures.

[wiselblower]

US lie in vietnam, Lie in Iraq war,Rule of tumb,once a Liar always a Liar. How Can i be trust a liar telling that some one no good.And US is good on double standard, ask the whole world especially 3rd world country that is not with them.

[rulllar]

Firstly I'm not an american and i've NEVER BEEN TO THE USA.

Secondly I didn't say the US is good, I said Chavez is awful.

Believe what you want.

[rulllar]

just because you don't believe Americans doesn't mean that Chavez has been good. Remember there was a coup against him, the entire Venezuela went on strike for 2 months in 2002, he has had to replace entire sections of the workforce with "loyalists" because those in there thought he was ruining the country.

Don't believe me, what do I care. I am telling you what I saw there. Go check it out then tell me i'm wrong. Don't give me some anti-american rhetoric as if i'm representing the US gov here.

[mohhaz]

Never seen any good comment to any country have different opinion with the US. Their advanges are the main stream media. You are right Wiselblower they brand other as they wish. And even lie under our nose.

[rulllar]

I'm not sure what you meant here. As I've written I'm not American and I've not a single time been to the USA.

[rulllar]

I was not there on a political fact finding mission. I did not want to be there but I had some personal things that forced me to be there. While there though obviously I wanted to ask.

Who I spoke to? Business owners, educated people (not intellectuals, just normal education - degrees etc with "reasonable" jobs), normal shop owners & workers, lots of taxi drivers, security guards, doctors. Some were rich, most were "ok or worse" (thats by standards much lower than western)

[rulllar]

As the doctors explained to me (the older generation are mostly American trained), the young Venezuelan doctors & many of their Cuban counterparts have very little understanding of cells, some need to be taught what a neoplasm is.. It's horrifying for people who get treated by these unqualified yet certified doctors. People read stats about more doctors, that says little about the quality.

Don't believe me ? Prefer the quotes you guys put? Fair enough. Go there and check.

[indulf]

Many thanks for your additional information, which is unsourced. 60% of the population voted for Chavez and he is helping the poor. In America, Bush probably has the support of around 30% of the public; in the UK Blair has around 30%; in Israel I note that the President is out of favour.

[rulllar]

It is unsourced? Yes. It's my personal experience. Source me if you want.

As for in favour or outside of favour it means nothing for solutions of the country - crime: more than double (Go see official stats which I would argue understate the problem). Higher education: Lower grade. Medicine availability: Down. Employment: Down.

[rulllar]

And please remember: high crime is not merely a stat. It affects whether people go out, how they treat each other, what they buy, wear. Who they go with, what car they buy... it's not simply "crime has doubled" and "murders have more than doubled to one of worlds highest murders in Caracas". It has VERY VERY VERY significant social and cultural effects beyond simply a number (and I again maintain the official numbers are much lower than actual rate due to police-gang links).

[indulf]

I have experienced what happens when the CIA tries to undermine a country. Crime shoots up and there is a lot of chaos. Is it possible that there is a campaign by the CIA to make Chavez look bad? In Ecuador, the CIA owned most of the key officials, from trade unionists to policemen to journalists.

[rulllar]

No. He's purged normal people who were just anti-chavez. The entire system is filled with "chavistas" (meaning chavez-ites). As for crime - he emptied large sections of the prisons. Crime levels responded as you expect, and as I have seen. Also growth of unemployment and lowering of oppertunities obviously had a part.

Of course, feel free to blame the US. Chavez blames it for all the results of his policies (crime, unemployment, collapse of many services, lack of medicine)

[pebruary]

Venezuela under Chavez.

"Just under a million children from the shanty-towns and the poorest villages now obtain a free education; 1.2 million illiterate adults have been taught to read and write; secondary education has been made available to 250,000 children whose social status excluded them from this privilege during the ancien regime; three new university campuses were functioning by 2003 and six more are due to be completed by 2006."

[pebruary]

"As far as healthcare is concerned, the 10,000 Cuban doctors, who were sent to help the country, have transformed the situation in the poor districts, where 11,000 neighbourhood clinics have been established and the health budget has tripled."

[rulllar]

Do you know much about the details of this healthcare (and you have not sourced your work I note)? When the Cuban dentists came, they refused to use anastetic. You try getting your teeth fixed/removed without it.

These policies have helped people. I'm not stupid. But they are much much much less positive then your simple descriptions, plus it came at the expense of getting the poor out of poverty.

[pebruary]

"Add to this the financial support provided to small businesses, the new homes being built for the poor, an Agrarian Reform Law that was enacted and pushed through despite the resistance, legal and violent, by the landlords. By the end of last year 2,262,467 hectares has been distributed to 116,899 families."

Chavez won the last election with over 60% of the vote. Did you talk to any of the poor people?

[rulllar]

Again, you quote a quote that sounds great. It is not. Buildings were built, handed to the poor, the poor sold the flats and went back to the Shanty towns and in some cases were again awarded a flat. This massive negligent mismanagement is like theft from the country. Did you know he threw out all the oil workers and brought in foreign workers and now Venezuela produces 33% less oil than before? thats $60,000,000 EVERY DAY he has ripped off Venezuela.

[rulllar]

Did you also know that the government workers who protested gov policy were fired? Now the entire government workers are basically Chavez puppets? As for the medical "health basket", Badan and the other venezuelan organizations are mired in beaurocracy and it happens often that the ENTIRE COUNTRY runs out of common medicines because of the centralized system he has created where people could die because the central hub did not finish the paperwork properly so they cannot import the drugs.

[rulllar]

As for 60%. Yes. He has got widespread support from the poor. They have been given services (at basic levels that like i mentioned are a mixed blessing/nightmere). Did he help provide oppertunities? No. In venezuela everyone I spoke to seemed pretty hopeless. Did he provide a vision? Nothing.

[rulllar]

Has EXTREMELY basic education been improved vastly? Yes.

What has happened to higher education? Many degrees are now 1 or maximum 2 years, parts of the courses now include political courses (that Chavez has approved), allowing even less time for studying the specific sciences/humanities of the particular degrees. Or to the point: Higher education is facing collapse. So people can read and write but they are much poorer engineers, doctors, managers, lawyers, historians etc.

[rulllar]

Are murders more than double since he took office? Yes. Are serious assults/GBH even higher than double? Yes. Are kidnappings at highest in memory? You bet.

Maybe thats where all the health money is sucked up in.

You can quote what you want. It's a quote from far away. Go there yourself and see. I was there I saw the sham in all the quotes, the misrepresentation of the reality.

[rulllar]

You've obviously not been to Venezuela recently to see the suffering that continues daily for millions and millions under him.

[rulllar]

EVERYONE I spoke to with an education wanted to flee the country. They stayed either because of difficulty getting their money out, difficulty getting US visa or just love for the country they grew up in even though it's gotten so bad.. but EVERYONE educated (mainly business owners and doctors I met) ALL say chavez has caused a disaster like never in their history and that all of them are desperate to flee and have been in large numbers every year.

[rulllar]

I should note. Crime is completely out of control there. Murders/kidnappings are often and uninvestigated (since nothing comes of it). I do not wish to insult the quite a few very nice/friendly people we met whose country I am discussing, but then it is them who kept telling me to be much much much much more careful then I thought before arrival (and I thought I was paranoid BEFORE going!)