Moving to China (for Libertarians?) Economy and Standard of Living

[williamng415]

I think moving to Hong Kong is a good idea. No sales tax, 15% income tax. And the city is high tech, global hub. Living cost only slightly below that of US, or for me San Francisco.

[Ksabrs45]

@williamng415

Maybe if I wind up doing something else, Hong Kong is really expensive. I'd have to make a lot more money to justify living there over Taibei or Beijing.

[Ksabrs45]

@TheTailstock

The solution is to not get a Chinese girl pregnant.

[errorspending]

Thanks for making these videos. Very helpful! are you a freedomain radio listener?

[Ksabrs45]

Yeah, I've listened to Molyneux off and on since 2008.

[errorspending]

@Ksabrs45 Nice! Same with me. I figured you either listened or would like him after hearing your ideas. I studied Japanese and lived there for a year....wondering if maybe one day I'll want to make the move to the East as well, but that healthcare video you posted made me kinda nervous about China!

[Rmkb1990]

I'm moving to Harbin city in November

[darkstar3x16]

I would rather live in China than this welfare state of Europe which has suffered mass immigration of Islam fascists.

[Ksabrs45]

@darkstar3x16

Well there is probably a way. Plenty of room in China for people with degrees , work experience, or professional certifications.

[Ksabrs45]

I need to back track. I think they do lie about inflation. Unfortunately, they are cracking down on "speculators" and "hoarders." This is a disappointing development.

[SanguineBullet667]

for libertarians .... o.O

for liberals? ..... o.O

[Ksabrs45]

@SanguineBullet667

I deliberately conflate the terms. Look up Liberalism in Wikipedia. After I read Jorg Guido Hulsmann's biographic tome "Mises: The Last Knight of Liberalism" I decided that I like the word Liberal more than Libertarian.

[curecorruption]

Very interesting information.

[apostate001]

Libertarians love to talk about their theories on economics and government but yet refuse to move to their utopia in Somalia. Somalia is precisely the type of government that Libertarians champion yet none move there. Why is that? The reason is obvious, Libertarians want all of the benefits of living in civilization without having to pay any of the costs of its upkeep. Freedom is not free is not a cliche, its reality.

[Ksabrs45]

@apostate001

In this video I didn't address any of those issues. The issue you raise has been comprehensively addressed by many other people. If you want to criticize something I have to say about China, by all means go ahead.

[gwangjuboy1]

@Ksabrs45 China is not a libertarian's paradise at all. For a start, there are a plethora of state-owned enterprises, the government owns the vast majority of the land, state spending on the military is considered by China watchers to be much higher than PRC official figures suggest and anti-drugs laws are strictly enforced. There is nothing libertarian about any of that. Oh, btw, did I forget to mention its 400 billion dollar stimulus last year? Stick to Somalia buddy.

[Ksabrs45]

@gwangjuboy1

Did I say that China is a "Libertarian Paradise"?

[gwangjuboy1]

@Ksabrs45 : Look at the title: 'China for libertarians?' Well I have just helped you out by outlining just how substantial state intervention in the Chinese economy actually is. I never actually claimed that you described China as a libertarian's paradise either - I am just telling you that it isn't. If I was attributing those remarks to you I would have used quotation marks. There is much less state intervention in Somalia.

[Ksabrs45]

@gwangjuboy1

I am fully aware of Chinese State intervention. I live in China. If you watched all of my videos you would discover that I have a nuanced view of China and the advantages and disadvantages of life in China. Yes, China is not a Libertarian Paradise.

[Digali]

@apostate001 uh. No. Somalia is a violent state. Libertarians abhor violence. That's the CORE of the libertarian argument, are you sir, are misinformed, or a shill working for the elite. Lord knows they have 10,000 bloggers and commenters working on their payroll to try and shift popular opinion. Violence is bad. we learn that in childhood. Yet the state kidnaps people ("arrest"), steals your money, and will shoot you if you try to defend yourself. All incredibly violent acts.

[modelmark]

I heard from someone that houses cost about the same as in Europe, but wages are 10 times lower. That would mean that a house costs about 50 year salaries. On top of that a chinese guy told me the government 'takes the house back' in 70 years. That would seem like a serious bubble.

[Ksabrs45]

@modelmark

Yeah, especially in the tier 1 international cities. Normal people often live in dorms or at their place of employment. Taxi drivers often sleep in their cabs. There are some really serious imbalances, employees at multinationals and State Enterprises make out really well and everyone else tends to get shafted to some degree or another. My hope rests on revaluing the currency and letting excess manufacturing capacity re-tool for domestic consumption.

[modelmark]

@Ksabrs45 How can it be that there is an over production of houses, but people still sleep in taxis/dorms etc. ? How come the prices do not drop until these people can afford them ? The developers are now losing money as they stand empty, at least with a cab driver in they would make some money of it.

How would revaluation require retooling? Aren't they already producing consumer goods?

[Ksabrs45]

@modelmark

I'm assuming that the excess capacity in housing was caused by credit expansion at the People's Bank. Prices are kept high because they continue to expand credit and print money. It would be nice if the developers are allowed to go bankrupt and normal people could afford a decent apartment, but I doubt that will happen.

[Ksabrs45]

@modelmark

As far as retooling-Chinese people don't buy things that Americans do. Even if they had, on average, a comparable level of income they wouldn't buy Xboxs, Maragaritaville Blenders, and football paraphernalia. They have their own "unique" set of demands for consumer goods. Some factories could make the transition without any problems but a lot of the highly specialized and high tech manufacturing will probably have a difficult time replacing the American family with a Chinese family.

[twochordcool]

CATCH PHRASE: LLOOWWEERR SSTTAANNDDAARRDD OOFF LLIIVVIINNGG

You can go live in your libertarian utopia but you are sacrificing at the same time - seems fucking retarded.

[Ksabrs45]

@twochordcool

Your hostility won't go unappreciated.

[HBSchool]

@twochordcool

Simple.Ass:

You accept a lower standard of living when you chose to save/invest your money, do you not? This man is in on the ground floor, investing his time, in the worlds next economic super power. It's only a matter of time before China's standard of living surpasses the U.S.

- He already makes half of the median income in the U.S, which is declining, wait until the Yuan is revalued and inflation hits the U.S.

- He could always return to the U.S and bank as a terp.

[twochordcool]

@HBSchool Yeah well good luck with that.

[twochordcool]

@HBSchool I'm from the US. My family is from the US. I have a good job in the US. And it is my job as an American citizen to try to improve the situation here. If things get much worse here and I'm not screwed out of a pension I may consider living elsewhere after I retire - but it won't be China - too different from what I'm use to and not very sexy!

[Ksabrs45]

@twochordcool

A modest pension can go along way in a second tier Chinese city (DaLian, QingDao, ChengDu). Yeah, my life in China can be called many things. Sexy is not one of them.

[SuperBunyon]

Great info but you speak too quickly. I wonder how a Libertarian can find happiness in a country in which the government is everything. The freedom of China probably comes from apathy to a lot of things and a government that doesn't really make laws to protect people. JMHO. I'm in Thailand.

[Ksabrs45]

@SuperBunyon

My delivery is generally less then stellar.

I certainly don't know how Libertarians can achieve happiness.

[alphom10]

When did you become an overseas operations officer with the National Clandestine Service of the Central Intelligence Agency? You're cover is weak. Watch out.

[Ksabrs45]

@alphom10

Haha