@rtrichardson2 Please don't try and tell me what Pres. Obama believes. There is NO difference between the two mens' statements. The 1947 borders ARE the "pre-1967 borders".
As for accusing me of selective editing by "cutting the clip short", I did no such thing. I only trimmed for brevity, He said nothing different in the intervening few minutes. The full video is available online if you wish to verify.
@rtrichardson2 You'd better check the mirror to see who's "clueless". The only "pre-67 borders" ARE the 1947 lines. So when Obama called for a return to the "pre-1967 borders", he's saying THE EXACT SAME THING AS BUSH. So when Republicans leapt to attack Obama but not Bush for saying the exact same thing, that makes them monster hypocrites, and you "clueless".
Some of our leaders stance against Israel resulted in one catastrophe after another. Hurricane Katrina, the tornadoes etc. Scripture states God will bless those who bless Israel & curse those who curse Israel. Look around. America is losing blessings & protection bcause of terrible sins includ. abortion, porn & not supporting Israel. I had dreams of the tornados & tsunami before they happened & I dreamed even bigger tsunamis to come. Also dreamed of BAD earthquake. AMERICA! WAKE UP AND REPENT!
@Oddballmarine90 Not clear on the question, but I don't think anyone is calling the PRE '67 borders indefensible. Additional territory claimed in the 1967 war is in dispute.
No I was wondering why Israel makes a big deal about those borders. They say their borders are indefensible, but they won the 1967 war from those borders.
@Oddballmarine90 Israel "won" the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in the 1967 "Six day war". Recently, they turned Gaza over to the Palestinians, but both sides are still adamant of ownership of The West Bank because that's where the capital, Jerusalem, lies. Returning to the pre-67 borders means (Israel) giving up Jerusalem, and they aren't about to do that. Presently, neither side is willing to consider "joint custody".
I'm just sayin Israel's reason for not withdrawing to the pre-1967 borders is BS. Other than that. You're right Obama got a bad rap for something several other presidents have already said.
@BI30 Proponents of continuing the occupation and settlements in the West Bank *constantly* refer to the pre-1967 borders of Israel as "indefensible". It's even become standard among the right-wing of Israel politics to refer to them as "Auschwitz borders".
@Oddballmarine90 The reason is that under UN legislation and principles noone should be allowed to obtain land through the mechanism of war. They were partitioned land by the british government but subsequently ignored international law and invaded palistinian land which are now known under UN law to be illegal settlements. If you ae interested i suggest you view Alan Harts documentry on the history o israel and palistine.
The Hebrews have been in that land since day one, they're descendants of Abraham. Let's see the U.S. go back to their pre-1776 border lines and then maybe Israel will give it a thought. But Americans who are anti-Israel are a bunch of hyporcrites!
God has already spoken the fate of those that stand against Israel, see Revelation in teh bible. People, its not too late for you, you can still call out to Jesus, he will hear you. PLZ Call out and ask forgiveness, and in turn forgive others that have hurt and sinned against you, Place Jesus as God in your heart, that is all there is to it.
Not one grain of dust should be given to the palestinians, Not One. ! in the name of Jesus. Why would anyone consider giving someone half of their bedroom, if that person has sworn to kill them.
He didn't say there should be a return to the 67 boarders. He said an end to the occupation, and a permanent solution be to move the 1948 armistice line to reflect "Current realities".
I assume you know what the current reality is. Unless you claim the lost 2 minutes say something different in which case you should have left them in.
@o0lBobl0o Sigh. Why are Bush-apologists so clueless? This video is NOT a criticism of Bush. It is proof that President Obama did not suggest anything that Bush didn't say too It is an indictment of the hypocrites that immediately blasted Pres Obama for "throwing Israel to the wolves" for suggesting something Bush also called for.
As for the "lost 2 minutes". They aren't "lost". They are on Whitehouse.gov, and NO ONE has yet claimed the full video says anything different than what's posted.
what was cut out of this video? There was definitely a cut there and we don't know what he said. If they are going to show the video they need to show the entire thing because we don't know what was left out.
@cbchancey As I already told the two people before you asking the same thing, the cut... about two minutes... was purely for brevity sake. Simply a restatement of the same point and makes no assertion that changes Bush's recommendation. The full video and transcript are still available on the White House website in the Bush-43 archives if you don't believe me.
Obammy calls for a return to the per-67 borders as the means to peace. Does he not know why those borders changed in '67? Does he not know that Jordan, Syria, and Egypt were *massed for attack* on those very same "peaceful" borders? What a dumbass.
What Bush said was that negotiations must start with "...mutually agreed adjustments to the armistace lines of 1949..."
That doe NOT mean a return to the pre-67 border. It means they talk about where the borders should be, using the pre-67 borders as the basis for the adjustments.
I also wonder what was cut out of the speech at 0:57 seconds. There's an obvious deletion.
@nohiros Obama suggested "land swaps", not simple adjustment of the borders.
As for the deletion, it was irrelevant and only removed for brevity sake. You can see the full video on the White Website (Bush Archives.) The question was already asked & answered in a prior comment.
@nohiros He said there sould be a end to the that occupation begin in 1967. He said they should come together to agreements of 1949. That is deff less land.
Bush Cliton started and then Bush and now Obama..Obama has been more foward then Bush on the Israel issue. They all are just instruments of a power that we don't see.
IAMISRAEL! The Abomination is giving America's strongest ally in the middle east, an ultimatum. That is preposterous! Who the hell does he think he is that he can give Israel, a sovereign country, an ultimatum? What, has he become the PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD? Gee, that's something that the Anti-Christ is gonna think of himself. Isn't it? Obama is not the Anti-Christ. But when the Anti-Christ comes, he will do just as Obama is doing. The End is Near!
@largraf: In some context, any speech may have more than one indication of intelligence for the individual who makes the speech, such as with being prepared for the speech, enunciation, the ability to grasp the concept(s) being talked about, etc. But, what the hell does your comment, that I responding to now, even have to do with your argument that Obama did such a bad thing by telling Israel something that they apparently don't understand??!
IAMISRAEL! The Abomination is giving America's strongest ally in the middle east, an ultimatum. That is preposterous! Who the hell does he think he is that he can give Israel, a sovereign country, an ultimatum? What, has he become the PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD? Gee, that's something that the Anti-Christ is gonna think of himself. Isn't it? Obama is not the Anti-Christ. But when the Anti-Christ comes, he will do just as Obama is doing. The End is Near!
Here's why the indefensible argument is complete BS. Israel returned to the pre-1967 borders with Egypt even though the current borders are harder to defend than the east bank of the Suez Canal.
@beau00125 The hard cut is an important point on this issue
These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders ~ President Bush (White House transcript of Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process)
@MichealAngeloInfidel The hard cut was extraneous & redundant. It was only cut because most YouTubers would tune out before reaching the relevant "1949" remark.
An important point is that Pres. Obama DID NOT suggest that Israel return to its 1967 borders. He said those borders, lines on the map, were the starting point for negotiations. Israel is not required to move anything before negotiations start or finish.
My Dad was watching CBN and they were basically infuriating me with their accusations towards Obama. I told my Dad that W. Bush agreed with Obama on the borders. You should have seen his expression, he almost broke down in tears, "Not my precious Bush, anything but that". Lol. Like most Fanatical Religious people, he immediately compartmentalized it in his brain and denied it. So I told him, "Hey I'm going to do something really crazy..... I'm going to research it.". Thanks for the post.
@sixthsensi An important point that was cut from this manipulated video is:
These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders ~ President Bush (White House transcript of Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process)
@MichealAngeloInfidel You are suggesting I was trying to mislead people. The omitted paragraph reveals nothing that Bush did not already suggest in the included the clips, nor says anything different from Obama.
The point of the video is not to criticize Bush, but to show the hypocrisy of those criticizing Obama.
this isnt about racism. its about americans learning. we were stupid when bush was in office but saw what he did, so now were educating ourselves and see that obama is doing the same things. now people are interested in getting obama out asap to minimize damage to the country. were just far more concerned now
@beau00125 As of this writing, this subject is the top post on my homepage. For later readers, search my blog for "President Bush called for Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders."
The White House link to the transcript with full video is the second link in the first paragraph.
Israel is a peacful, tecnological, and diverse society. It is even more liberal and democratic than most of America, Israelies have over 40% of nobel prizes and america uses many israeli technologies. Why Obama or Bush or whoever would want to cut up a model society is beyond me. Shouldnt we be trying to create democracies rather than destroy them?
the pre-67 borders led to israel getting attacked by 6 different nations, israel now has a border in which it can somewhat defend itself, don't defend Obama, it doesnt have to be that all republicabs side with bush, and vise versa.
and why does Israel have to settle for this. if the country is split again the jews won't be around anymore only Muslims and Christians and i hate all three religions but i don't like seeing a race whipped out in a part of the world
if we go back to the 67 border then lets give the united states back to the natives and give the money back to the French for Louisiana ...1 penny for every acre of land lol what a joke :)
The media parrots perversion of history and RW trolls trot out and repeat it like it's all they need to know. GW Bush, Clinton, GHWB all said '67 borders.
This shows once again that "what's so shocking" is that a black man [who might be a 'Hidden Muslim', let's not forget that "Hussein" part] is in the White House, and right wingers just cannot stand it. They'll find any excuse to twist history, lie, distort and attack this President. It's sickening and pathetic.
its not the same as obama, Bush said threw negotiations to achieve this peace.Obama just told israel to go back to the 1967 borders with agreed swaps. Obama handled it wrong and went in favor of the palestinian.
@lovelymomof4 Obama did no such thing. You are suggesting the land swaps were already predetermined instead of something left to be NEGOTIATED.
Sorry Bush Apologist #873, but the two strategies were nearly identical, except that Bush only suggested "moving" the borders rather than an exchange of territories. And the people that instantly attacked Obama over this had even MORE reason to attack Bush ... but didn't. Wonder why.
@hoglaw1 Yes, I *did* listen to the video I created. I believe YOU are the one hearing only what you want to hear. Bush is clearly calling territory claimed by Israel in 1967 an "occupation", and the only way to "end" that "occupation" is to leave... and not just land claimed in 67, but any territory not part of the original 1949 Armistice. Obama suggested an EXCHANGE of land to accommodate Israeli's living in Palestinian territory. The only person suggesting Israel "give up land" is Bush.
@phuktheU While a return to the "1949 Armistice Lines" would cede more land than simply going to 1967, the "pre-1967" borders were set in 1949, which is what I believe Bush was referring to, not "PRE-1949".
People want to support the underdog -- but it is not so easy to know who that is, especially in a changing situation. Perhaps we could ask the United Nations to give New York State to the Palestinians as a homeland. Makes as much sense to me as telling other people to give up land they won in a war that was not of their own making.
@panthiere The war WAS of the Israelis own making. They "rattled their swords" for months, then when the Egyptian government amassed troops near the border in anticipation of an attack, Israel took that opportunity to claim a pre-emptive strike and start the war.
I think the United States should give up California -- after all, it didn't always belong to them - it belonged to Mexico. What right does the USA have to California anyway?
@panthiere taking it that far might as well go all the way and give the whole country back to Native Americans or are we just going to pick and choose when it comes to stealing land?
How many of the people here KNOW from their own experience who is the aggressor? How many of the people who are commenting were adults in 1967? How many of the people here can admit to racism? How many of the people here can remember when Yassar Arafat spoke to the UN with two ammunition belts over his chest and guns? People do not understand that Israel can not afford to lose EVER because there are many peoples ready to take away their land. Why can't Jordan be a Palestinian Homeland?
Thanks for the video, now it's easy for me to point stupid liberals to this video to show them that they DID NOT SAY THE SAME THING. It's a far cry to move back to the 49 borders as Obama wants, vs 49 borders adjusted for on the ground realities. Liberals just want israel to be wiped off the map, and it's easier for that to happen if they can push Israel to a tiny strip of indefensible land.
@vmlinux You're an idiot. The only person to refer to the '49 borders was Bush, not Obama. And both men cite making adjustments to those borders based upon "conditions on the ground".
@Oddballmarine90 You sir are a grade A dumb ass anti-semite racist, it's commonly accepted that Israel would have been destroyed had they waited for the attack. This is not 1967, this is 2011. That's the only way to defend those borders is via preemptive strike which was what the 1967 war was. Only a tactical moron would give someone who's public stance is to kill every last man woman and child in your country the high ground. I hope to god our commanders have infinitely more sense than you.
Okay, first off, the high ground means nothing when Israel owns the skies. Second off, what prevents Israel from launching preemptive attacks from the 1949 borders in 2011?
@Oddballmarine90 1. Would you be stupid enough to let someone launch a preemptive attack twice on you? 2. Israel has a missile defense. Those missiles in the near future may be carrying Iranian nukes. Would YOU give up land you could intercept those missiles over? I won't be responding again, your arguments are LAAAAAME, very short sighted, and obviously based on racism not intelligent self preservation. No sane country cedes land to another country dedicated to genocide against them.
Thats the whole point of a preemptive attack. The enemy doesn't even see it coming.
Obviously you're not familiar with the interception of ICBMs. Their intercepted mid-arch, the Arrow 2 (Israel's missile defense) is able to intercept its targets above the stratosphere, high enough so that any nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons do not scatter over Israel.[8]
"The IDF's strategic plan was to remain on the defensive along the Jordanian front, to enable focus in the expected campaign against Egypt." - Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
So the very borders that you (& Bibi) claim is indefensible, was in fact defended by the IDF while the preemptive attacks were in the Sinai and Golan Heights.
If I am threatened with attacks and if I am threatened with arms, do I not have the right to defend myself? Do I have the right to strap explosives to a child and send it into a market to explode itself? What do people mean by "reflect current realities". Is the USA willing to go back to the borders they had prior to the Spanish American War?
@BI30 do you know this for a fact? Can you prove to me with video that everyone who did strap explosives to their bodies were adults and did it of their own volition? No you can't. It's what you believe. And I believe differently.
@panthiere Yes, yes I do. "Suicide bombers" are volunteers by definition. And the religious ritual that each bomber goes through is extensive. Islamists that commit these acts consider it an honor to martyr themselves. Not only would "tricking" or "forcing" someone to unwittingly be a bomb be a huge insult to all those who volunteered previously, but there is no shortage of volunteers to use a child. And No, I can't prove a negative... beyond your IQ.
Bush talks about going to the borders of the armastce!! Try that on the PM of Israel HA! You think Obama is off the wall, INSTEAD OF 9 miles try 7 miles by that standard! Your being a hypocrit!
I am not Jewish, but I can understand why Israel needs more land than was at first allotted; I am even very pro Israel having the Golan Heights. Israel has never fired a shot in anger or hatred and has only ever protected itself even when forced into the position of being proactive on potential nuclear weapons plants. What country in the world ever came to the aid of the Jewish people in pre WW2 and during WW2. Israel stands alone and they know it and therefore, they are firm.
@panthiere I think you misunderstand a great deal. Israel stands alone... With the US. The reason they stand so alone is because they have slaughtered innocent people in the west bank and gaza. Most of whom were children. And many of the children killed were killed while doing their normal everyday tasks... Like walking to school. Yeah. Israel murders school children while they're going to class.
@panthiere How can you say that killing thousands of innocent women and children is defense of anything? Killing a child takes both hatred and anger, and Israel has killed MANY children. Pretending they have not sinned against God is just lying about the sin.
I am Jewish and a Zionist, and a supporter of Israel with my pocket book as well as my mouth. Bush said the same thing Obama did in 2008 as this video shows. There is nothing different in the meaning of their words. But Republicans and Right Wing Jews hate Obama so much, they will actually destroy Israel. If the UN General Assembly declares a Palestinian State on the West Bank this fall, then what. The Settlements will be like Fort Sumter in 1861.
I am Jewish and a Zionist, and a supporter of Israel with my pocket book as well as my mouth. Bush said the same thing Obama did in 2008 as this video shows. There is nothing different in the meaning of their words. But Republicans and Right Wing Jews hate Obama so much, they will actually destroy Israel. If the UN General Assembly declares a Palestinian State on the West Bank this fall, then what. The Settlements will be like Fort Sumter in 1861.
At the 1:01 point Bush says "there should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967." To end that occupation, Israel would have to move back to the 1967 borders.
Sorry, but no. Listen carefully to his words. Bush actually said, "Any peace agreement...will require...adjustments...to the armistice lines of 1949 to reflect current realities." This is precisely what Netanyahu has been saying -- that the lines must reflect "current realities."
i'm sure if this gets brought up in a argument they'll say some bullshit like its worse now because of current conflict or just make something up like they always do, which should/will be funny as hell.
@rtrichardson2 You know what else is juvenile? TYPING IN ALL CAPS!
My telling you "what Bush believed" is not a guess. I have him on video. Search my archives for the word "warpath".
BI30 1 month ago
@rtrichardson2 Please don't try and tell me what Pres. Obama believes. There is NO difference between the two mens' statements. The 1947 borders ARE the "pre-1967 borders".
As for accusing me of selective editing by "cutting the clip short", I did no such thing. I only trimmed for brevity, He said nothing different in the intervening few minutes. The full video is available online if you wish to verify.
BI30 1 month ago
@rtrichardson2 You'd better check the mirror to see who's "clueless". The only "pre-67 borders" ARE the 1947 lines. So when Obama called for a return to the "pre-1967 borders", he's saying THE EXACT SAME THING AS BUSH. So when Republicans leapt to attack Obama but not Bush for saying the exact same thing, that makes them monster hypocrites, and you "clueless".
BI30 1 month ago
Bush awakened towards the latter end of his presidency.
I believe he was a victim of brainwashing towards the beginning of his presidency.
eastariel 3 months ago
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Cup your hands into a big bowl. That's where the Palestinians used to live.
Now clench your hands into fists and move them apart. That's where the Palestinians live now, inside Israel's iron fists.
eastariel 3 months ago
Some of our leaders stance against Israel resulted in one catastrophe after another. Hurricane Katrina, the tornadoes etc. Scripture states God will bless those who bless Israel & curse those who curse Israel. Look around. America is losing blessings & protection bcause of terrible sins includ. abortion, porn & not supporting Israel. I had dreams of the tornados & tsunami before they happened & I dreamed even bigger tsunamis to come. Also dreamed of BAD earthquake. AMERICA! WAKE UP AND REPENT!
suzeeq41 4 months ago
If you're an American christard and sympathize with Israeli aggression, get the fuck out of America and go live in Israel!
a0eoj 4 months ago
How are the pre-1967 borders indefensible if Israel won the 1967 war? Seriously?
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 Not clear on the question, but I don't think anyone is calling the PRE '67 borders indefensible. Additional territory claimed in the 1967 war is in dispute.
BI30 4 months ago
@BI30
No I was wondering why Israel makes a big deal about those borders. They say their borders are indefensible, but they won the 1967 war from those borders.
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 Israel "won" the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in the 1967 "Six day war". Recently, they turned Gaza over to the Palestinians, but both sides are still adamant of ownership of The West Bank because that's where the capital, Jerusalem, lies. Returning to the pre-67 borders means (Israel) giving up Jerusalem, and they aren't about to do that. Presently, neither side is willing to consider "joint custody".
BI30 4 months ago
@BI30
I'm just sayin Israel's reason for not withdrawing to the pre-1967 borders is BS. Other than that. You're right Obama got a bad rap for something several other presidents have already said.
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 No one ever said Religious Wars made sense. :)
BI30 4 months ago
@BI30 Proponents of continuing the occupation and settlements in the West Bank *constantly* refer to the pre-1967 borders of Israel as "indefensible". It's even become standard among the right-wing of Israel politics to refer to them as "Auschwitz borders".
RedXlV 4 months ago
@RedXlV I believe that's what I said.
BI30 4 months ago
@RedXlV
Exactly, how can they claim the borders are indefensible if they won the 1967 war from those same borders.
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 The reason is that under UN legislation and principles noone should be allowed to obtain land through the mechanism of war. They were partitioned land by the british government but subsequently ignored international law and invaded palistinian land which are now known under UN law to be illegal settlements. If you ae interested i suggest you view Alan Harts documentry on the history o israel and palistine.
lalalady4216 3 months ago
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The Hebrews have been in that land since day one, they're descendants of Abraham. Let's see the U.S. go back to their pre-1776 border lines and then maybe Israel will give it a thought. But Americans who are anti-Israel are a bunch of hyporcrites!
timcp1 5 months ago
God has already spoken the fate of those that stand against Israel, see Revelation in teh bible. People, its not too late for you, you can still call out to Jesus, he will hear you. PLZ Call out and ask forgiveness, and in turn forgive others that have hurt and sinned against you, Place Jesus as God in your heart, that is all there is to it.
toiwin 6 months ago
Israel is Much Loved by Yahweh, He will have his words fulfilled. You cannot pick on his firstborn and get away with it.
toiwin 6 months ago
Not one grain of dust should be given to the palestinians, Not One. ! in the name of Jesus. Why would anyone consider giving someone half of their bedroom, if that person has sworn to kill them.
toiwin 6 months ago
He didn't say there should be a return to the 67 boarders. He said an end to the occupation, and a permanent solution be to move the 1948 armistice line to reflect "Current realities".
I assume you know what the current reality is. Unless you claim the lost 2 minutes say something different in which case you should have left them in.
o0lBobl0o 7 months ago
@o0lBobl0o Sigh. Why are Bush-apologists so clueless? This video is NOT a criticism of Bush. It is proof that President Obama did not suggest anything that Bush didn't say too It is an indictment of the hypocrites that immediately blasted Pres Obama for "throwing Israel to the wolves" for suggesting something Bush also called for.
As for the "lost 2 minutes". They aren't "lost". They are on Whitehouse.gov, and NO ONE has yet claimed the full video says anything different than what's posted.
BI30 7 months ago
@BI30 I'm just stating what I heard him say in this video.
o0lBobl0o 7 months ago
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@largraf:
Even Bush figured it out; ...while you might be dumber than Bush, are you really so stupid that you can't understand this reality??
SpookeyR 7 months ago
what was cut out of this video? There was definitely a cut there and we don't know what he said. If they are going to show the video they need to show the entire thing because we don't know what was left out.
cbchancey 7 months ago
@cbchancey As I already told the two people before you asking the same thing, the cut... about two minutes... was purely for brevity sake. Simply a restatement of the same point and makes no assertion that changes Bush's recommendation. The full video and transcript are still available on the White House website in the Bush-43 archives if you don't believe me.
BI30 7 months ago
Obammy calls for a return to the per-67 borders as the means to peace. Does he not know why those borders changed in '67? Does he not know that Jordan, Syria, and Egypt were *massed for attack* on those very same "peaceful" borders? What a dumbass.
nohiros 8 months ago
@nohiros So what's Bush's excuse?
BI30 8 months ago
What Bush said was that negotiations must start with "...mutually agreed adjustments to the armistace lines of 1949..."
That doe NOT mean a return to the pre-67 border. It means they talk about where the borders should be, using the pre-67 borders as the basis for the adjustments.
I also wonder what was cut out of the speech at 0:57 seconds. There's an obvious deletion.
nohiros 8 months ago
@nohiros Obama suggested "land swaps", not simple adjustment of the borders.
As for the deletion, it was irrelevant and only removed for brevity sake. You can see the full video on the White Website (Bush Archives.) The question was already asked & answered in a prior comment.
BI30 8 months ago
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ccaifano 8 months ago
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@nohiros He said there sould be a end to the that occupation begin in 1967. He said they should come together to agreements of 1949. That is deff less land.
Bush Cliton started and then Bush and now Obama..Obama has been more foward then Bush on the Israel issue. They all are just instruments of a power that we don't see.
ccaifano 8 months ago
IAMISRAEL! The Abomination is giving America's strongest ally in the middle east, an ultimatum. That is preposterous! Who the hell does he think he is that he can give Israel, a sovereign country, an ultimatum? What, has he become the PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD? Gee, that's something that the Anti-Christ is gonna think of himself. Isn't it? Obama is not the Anti-Christ. But when the Anti-Christ comes, he will do just as Obama is doing. The End is Near!
largraf 8 months ago
@largraf: ".. when the Anti-Christ comes, he will do just as Obama is doing. The End is Near!"
You need more fluoride in your water, you horse's ass!
SpookeyR 7 months ago
@SpookeyR Did you know that a person's speech is the best indicator of his intelligence? Well, now you do.
largraf 7 months ago
@largraf: In some context, any speech may have more than one indication of intelligence for the individual who makes the speech, such as with being prepared for the speech, enunciation, the ability to grasp the concept(s) being talked about, etc. But, what the hell does your comment, that I responding to now, even have to do with your argument that Obama did such a bad thing by telling Israel something that they apparently don't understand??!
SpookeyR 7 months ago
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IAMISRAEL! The Abomination is giving America's strongest ally in the middle east, an ultimatum. That is preposterous! Who the hell does he think he is that he can give Israel, a sovereign country, an ultimatum? What, has he become the PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD? Gee, that's something that the Anti-Christ is gonna think of himself. Isn't it? Obama is not the Anti-Christ. But when the Anti-Christ comes, he will do just as Obama is doing. The End is Near!
largraf 8 months ago
There already is a Palestnian state. It's called Jordan...
CharmingLordSausage 8 months ago
Here's why the indefensible argument is complete BS. Israel returned to the pre-1967 borders with Egypt even though the current borders are harder to defend than the east bank of the Suez Canal.
Oddballmarine90 8 months ago
@beau00125 The hard cut is an important point on this issue
These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders ~ President Bush (White House transcript of Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process)
MichealAngeloInfidel 9 months ago
@MichealAngeloInfidel The hard cut was extraneous & redundant. It was only cut because most YouTubers would tune out before reaching the relevant "1949" remark.
BI30 9 months ago
An important point is that Pres. Obama DID NOT suggest that Israel return to its 1967 borders. He said those borders, lines on the map, were the starting point for negotiations. Israel is not required to move anything before negotiations start or finish.
steveh46 9 months ago
QUESTION! If both of them are idiots when it comes to this issue, what does this prove? NOTHING!
NolaTom91 9 months ago
My Dad was watching CBN and they were basically infuriating me with their accusations towards Obama. I told my Dad that W. Bush agreed with Obama on the borders. You should have seen his expression, he almost broke down in tears, "Not my precious Bush, anything but that". Lol. Like most Fanatical Religious people, he immediately compartmentalized it in his brain and denied it. So I told him, "Hey I'm going to do something really crazy..... I'm going to research it.". Thanks for the post.
sixthsensi 9 months ago
@sixthsensi An important point that was cut from this manipulated video is:
These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders ~ President Bush (White House transcript of Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process)
MichealAngeloInfidel 9 months ago
@MichealAngeloInfidel You are suggesting I was trying to mislead people. The omitted paragraph reveals nothing that Bush did not already suggest in the included the clips, nor says anything different from Obama.
The point of the video is not to criticize Bush, but to show the hypocrisy of those criticizing Obama.
BI30 9 months ago
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sixthsensi 9 months ago
this isnt about racism. its about americans learning. we were stupid when bush was in office but saw what he did, so now were educating ourselves and see that obama is doing the same things. now people are interested in getting obama out asap to minimize damage to the country. were just far more concerned now
garrettzkool63 9 months ago
@beau00125 As of this writing, this subject is the top post on my homepage. For later readers, search my blog for "President Bush called for Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders."
The White House link to the transcript with full video is the second link in the first paragraph.
BI30 9 months ago
@beau00125 The "hard cut" is about two minutes of extemporaneous information unrelated to the border issue.
But a link to the full video and transcript on the White House website is available on my blog (see my profile for link).
BI30 9 months ago
God all you people are ignoramuses, I compel you all to do atleast two of three things.
1) Look up the 1949 borders
2)Look up the 1967 borders (also what happened to Israel's ability to defend itself due to these borders).
3) understanding the difference between 'adjustments' and 'land swaps.'
Oh and another thing; use your fucking brains..
willsbanana 9 months ago
Israel is a peacful, tecnological, and diverse society. It is even more liberal and democratic than most of America, Israelies have over 40% of nobel prizes and america uses many israeli technologies. Why Obama or Bush or whoever would want to cut up a model society is beyond me. Shouldnt we be trying to create democracies rather than destroy them?
sooksisnomofo 9 months ago
@sooksisnomofo Israel is only a "model society" if you're an Israeli.
BI30 9 months ago
the pre-67 borders led to israel getting attacked by 6 different nations, israel now has a border in which it can somewhat defend itself, don't defend Obama, it doesnt have to be that all republicabs side with bush, and vise versa.
sooksisnomofo 9 months ago
and why does Israel have to settle for this. if the country is split again the jews won't be around anymore only Muslims and Christians and i hate all three religions but i don't like seeing a race whipped out in a part of the world
JimBoopLoop 9 months ago
if we go back to the 67 border then lets give the united states back to the natives and give the money back to the French for Louisiana ...1 penny for every acre of land lol what a joke :)
JimBoopLoop 9 months ago
The media parrots perversion of history and RW trolls trot out and repeat it like it's all they need to know. GW Bush, Clinton, GHWB all said '67 borders.
This shows once again that "what's so shocking" is that a black man [who might be a 'Hidden Muslim', let's not forget that "Hussein" part] is in the White House, and right wingers just cannot stand it. They'll find any excuse to twist history, lie, distort and attack this President. It's sickening and pathetic.
shpilk 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shpilk You are pathetic
MrBoris1813 9 months ago
its not the same as obama, Bush said threw negotiations to achieve this peace.Obama just told israel to go back to the 1967 borders with agreed swaps. Obama handled it wrong and went in favor of the palestinian.
lovelymomof4 9 months ago
@lovelymomof4 Obama did no such thing. You are suggesting the land swaps were already predetermined instead of something left to be NEGOTIATED.
Sorry Bush Apologist #873, but the two strategies were nearly identical, except that Bush only suggested "moving" the borders rather than an exchange of territories. And the people that instantly attacked Obama over this had even MORE reason to attack Bush ... but didn't. Wonder why.
BI30 9 months ago
@BI30 Did you even listen to the video. I will quote it for you:
"end of occupation that began in 1967" and a "mutually agreed adjustment to armistice lines of 1949."
I did not hear anything about giving up lands like Obama suggested.
hoglaw1 9 months ago
@hoglaw1 Yes, I *did* listen to the video I created. I believe YOU are the one hearing only what you want to hear. Bush is clearly calling territory claimed by Israel in 1967 an "occupation", and the only way to "end" that "occupation" is to leave... and not just land claimed in 67, but any territory not part of the original 1949 Armistice. Obama suggested an EXCHANGE of land to accommodate Israeli's living in Palestinian territory. The only person suggesting Israel "give up land" is Bush.
BI30 9 months ago
@BI30 obama was too blunt. bush was more politically correct. in politics you cant overly blunt and direct. it is not american idol.
1379gerardo 9 months ago
@lovelymomof4
So,
It's NOT when Bush did it...?
We see right through that double talk.
maxx1000 9 months ago
B130, you should repost just the Bush video clip and title it "Bush Called for Isreal Palestine Pre 1949 Border Reduction". It's gold.
phuktheU 9 months ago
@phuktheU While a return to the "1949 Armistice Lines" would cede more land than simply going to 1967, the "pre-1967" borders were set in 1949, which is what I believe Bush was referring to, not "PRE-1949".
BI30 9 months ago
@phuktheU I should clarify that. Israel was founded in 1949, so there really are no *pre* 1949 boundaries for Israel.
BI30 9 months ago
People want to support the underdog -- but it is not so easy to know who that is, especially in a changing situation. Perhaps we could ask the United Nations to give New York State to the Palestinians as a homeland. Makes as much sense to me as telling other people to give up land they won in a war that was not of their own making.
panthiere 9 months ago
@panthiere The war WAS of the Israelis own making. They "rattled their swords" for months, then when the Egyptian government amassed troops near the border in anticipation of an attack, Israel took that opportunity to claim a pre-emptive strike and start the war.
TheMagickseeker 9 months ago
I think the United States should give up California -- after all, it didn't always belong to them - it belonged to Mexico. What right does the USA have to California anyway?
panthiere 9 months ago
@panthiere I think Native Americans might question you conceding CA to Mexico.
BI30 9 months ago
@panthiere taking it that far might as well go all the way and give the whole country back to Native Americans or are we just going to pick and choose when it comes to stealing land?
msmurph11 9 months ago
How many of the people here KNOW from their own experience who is the aggressor? How many of the people who are commenting were adults in 1967? How many of the people here can admit to racism? How many of the people here can remember when Yassar Arafat spoke to the UN with two ammunition belts over his chest and guns? People do not understand that Israel can not afford to lose EVER because there are many peoples ready to take away their land. Why can't Jordan be a Palestinian Homeland?
panthiere 9 months ago
Thanks for the video, now it's easy for me to point stupid liberals to this video to show them that they DID NOT SAY THE SAME THING. It's a far cry to move back to the 49 borders as Obama wants, vs 49 borders adjusted for on the ground realities. Liberals just want israel to be wiped off the map, and it's easier for that to happen if they can push Israel to a tiny strip of indefensible land.
vmlinux 9 months ago 2
@vmlinux You're an idiot. The only person to refer to the '49 borders was Bush, not Obama. And both men cite making adjustments to those borders based upon "conditions on the ground".
BI30 9 months ago
@vmlinux
How are the 1949 borders indefensible if Israel won the 1967 war from those same borders?
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 You sir are a grade A dumb ass anti-semite racist, it's commonly accepted that Israel would have been destroyed had they waited for the attack. This is not 1967, this is 2011. That's the only way to defend those borders is via preemptive strike which was what the 1967 war was. Only a tactical moron would give someone who's public stance is to kill every last man woman and child in your country the high ground. I hope to god our commanders have infinitely more sense than you.
vmlinux 4 months ago
@vmlinux
Okay, first off, the high ground means nothing when Israel owns the skies. Second off, what prevents Israel from launching preemptive attacks from the 1949 borders in 2011?
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@Oddballmarine90 1. Would you be stupid enough to let someone launch a preemptive attack twice on you? 2. Israel has a missile defense. Those missiles in the near future may be carrying Iranian nukes. Would YOU give up land you could intercept those missiles over? I won't be responding again, your arguments are LAAAAAME, very short sighted, and obviously based on racism not intelligent self preservation. No sane country cedes land to another country dedicated to genocide against them.
vmlinux 4 months ago
@vmlinux
Thats the whole point of a preemptive attack. The enemy doesn't even see it coming.
Obviously you're not familiar with the interception of ICBMs. Their intercepted mid-arch, the Arrow 2 (Israel's missile defense) is able to intercept its targets above the stratosphere, high enough so that any nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons do not scatter over Israel.[8]
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
@vmlinux
"The IDF's strategic plan was to remain on the defensive along the Jordanian front, to enable focus in the expected campaign against Egypt." - Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
So the very borders that you (& Bibi) claim is indefensible, was in fact defended by the IDF while the preemptive attacks were in the Sinai and Golan Heights.
Oddballmarine90 4 months ago
What is the name of this speech, some people are claiming that it was edited too much. So I want to show them the whole thing .
Joeybsmooth 9 months ago
@Joeybsmooth Visit the URL at the end of the video to visit my blog, including a link to the full video and transcript on the White House website.
BI30 9 months ago
@BI30
Thanks I will still link people here but show the transcript too.
Joeybsmooth 9 months ago
@special initials -- where do you live?
panthiere 9 months ago
If I am threatened with attacks and if I am threatened with arms, do I not have the right to defend myself? Do I have the right to strap explosives to a child and send it into a market to explode itself? What do people mean by "reflect current realities". Is the USA willing to go back to the borders they had prior to the Spanish American War?
panthiere 9 months ago
@panthiere No one has ever strapped explosive to a child (or a dog) to kill Israeli civilians.
BI30 9 months ago
@BI30 do you know this for a fact? Can you prove to me with video that everyone who did strap explosives to their bodies were adults and did it of their own volition? No you can't. It's what you believe. And I believe differently.
panthiere 9 months ago
@panthiere Yes, yes I do. "Suicide bombers" are volunteers by definition. And the religious ritual that each bomber goes through is extensive. Islamists that commit these acts consider it an honor to martyr themselves. Not only would "tricking" or "forcing" someone to unwittingly be a bomb be a huge insult to all those who volunteered previously, but there is no shortage of volunteers to use a child. And No, I can't prove a negative... beyond your IQ.
BI30 9 months ago
@BI30 a little backwards, it is the Israelis strapping bombs to children to kill Palestinians.
TheMagickseeker 9 months ago
@CDS Michael -- where do you live?
panthiere 9 months ago
Bush talks about going to the borders of the armastce!! Try that on the PM of Israel HA! You think Obama is off the wall, INSTEAD OF 9 miles try 7 miles by that standard! Your being a hypocrit!
neilcarrick 9 months ago
I am not Jewish, but I can understand why Israel needs more land than was at first allotted; I am even very pro Israel having the Golan Heights. Israel has never fired a shot in anger or hatred and has only ever protected itself even when forced into the position of being proactive on potential nuclear weapons plants. What country in the world ever came to the aid of the Jewish people in pre WW2 and during WW2. Israel stands alone and they know it and therefore, they are firm.
panthiere 9 months ago
@panthiere I think you misunderstand a great deal. Israel stands alone... With the US. The reason they stand so alone is because they have slaughtered innocent people in the west bank and gaza. Most of whom were children. And many of the children killed were killed while doing their normal everyday tasks... Like walking to school. Yeah. Israel murders school children while they're going to class.
specialkrj 9 months ago
@panthiere How can you say that killing thousands of innocent women and children is defense of anything? Killing a child takes both hatred and anger, and Israel has killed MANY children. Pretending they have not sinned against God is just lying about the sin.
CDStMichael 9 months ago
@panthiere
LOL
There is just so much miss information. Look up Israel breaking Case Fire.
Joeybsmooth 9 months ago
yes, but the question is - did Bush ever know what he was saying?
panthiere 9 months ago
If Obama announced the sky is blue, these conservaclowns would line up to say he was dead wrong and it was really red, yellow or purple.
bigeasybri 9 months ago 2
I am Jewish and a Zionist, and a supporter of Israel with my pocket book as well as my mouth. Bush said the same thing Obama did in 2008 as this video shows. There is nothing different in the meaning of their words. But Republicans and Right Wing Jews hate Obama so much, they will actually destroy Israel. If the UN General Assembly declares a Palestinian State on the West Bank this fall, then what. The Settlements will be like Fort Sumter in 1861.
mileswrich 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mileswrich why do they hate Obama ??
TheNemoooz 9 months ago
I am Jewish and a Zionist, and a supporter of Israel with my pocket book as well as my mouth. Bush said the same thing Obama did in 2008 as this video shows. There is nothing different in the meaning of their words. But Republicans and Right Wing Jews hate Obama so much, they will actually destroy Israel. If the UN General Assembly declares a Palestinian State on the West Bank this fall, then what. The Settlements will be like Fort Sumter in 1861.
mileswrich 9 months ago
At the 1:01 point Bush says "there should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967." To end that occupation, Israel would have to move back to the 1967 borders.
Swampfox26 9 months ago
yes, Israel must go back to it's 1967 boarders. I'm talking June 12 1967!
boidemklotz 9 months ago
Ah, someone is not listening to what President Bush said.
PizzaGod 9 months ago 2
Sorry, but no. Listen carefully to his words. Bush actually said, "Any peace agreement...will require...adjustments...to the armistice lines of 1949 to reflect current realities." This is precisely what Netanyahu has been saying -- that the lines must reflect "current realities."
dcmax1 9 months ago
@dcmax1 And this differs from Obama's "land swaps" caveat how?
BI30 9 months ago 12
@dcmax1 "...to the armistice lines of 1949 to reflect current realities"
Bush never said that.
You conveniently left out some comma's which indicated he was listing three conditions. Please review the speech again.
dugmaze 9 months ago 2
@dcmax1
Obama said the same. R you deaf?
sirkeng 9 months ago
@dcmax1
Obama said the same. R you deaf?
sirkeng 9 months ago
@dcmax1 "An end to the occupation in 1967... This refers to....?"
Jmw122283 9 months ago
i'm sure if this gets brought up in a argument they'll say some bullshit like its worse now because of current conflict or just make something up like they always do, which should/will be funny as hell.
Firsttimebeez 9 months ago
Ah, thats right. Selective republican anger.
DudeSpectre 9 months ago
Thanks for posting this.
Sincerely, Your most recent subcriber, HC2012
HolyCity2012 9 months ago
Funny how nobody complained when the white guy said it.
IanDavidOnDU 9 months ago 32
@IanDavidOnDU agreed it is because he is black.
dooooooer 9 months ago 4
@dooooooer
grow up, its because one is a Republican and one is a Democrat.
Put it back in the deck.
Albyiscool 9 months ago
@Albyiscool Actually, part or a lot of the issue is racism. Most people just don't want to admit it.
seaofruin 9 months ago
@IanDavidOnDU not only that it is because his father was a muslim and they think he hates Jews.
dooooooer 9 months ago
@IanDavidOnDU there's a lot of silent racism in DC whereas we, the people, in order to form a more perfect union..
BraDiCaLiaN 9 months ago
@IanDavidOnDU Bingo .. spot on.
The 'Hidden Muslim' with the 'Secret Agenda' said it, and the Birchers and KKK set are going nuts.
shpilk 9 months ago
@IanDavidOnDU i hope your playing and if your not when you mention race all it does is make people angry white black tan yellow just drop it
JimBoopLoop 9 months ago