Christopher Hitchens On William Lane Craig (Mirror: Birdieupon)

[8bobthebuilder]

LOL i like the end bit.

[StuartbBlake]

As a Christian, I respected Hitchens so much. He was so honest. He was so funny.

I already miss him.

[holdenc96]

@StuartbBlake Yes, I'm a Christian too, and though I stand on the complete opposite end of what Hitchens believed theologically, I cannot say that I don't respect his intellect and sense of humor. He made me laugh a lot. When I disagreed with Hitchens, I REALLY disagreed wit him, but when I agreed with him, I REALLY agreed with him. I've always made it a point seek out the friendship of such people.

[cormacbuzz]

Seems slightly sour to use Hitchens' death as a way of needling Dawkins. Dawkins has already made up his mind and has his own reason for not debating whatever they may be. This attempt to seize the intellectual high ground does quite the opposite!

[Birdieupon]

@cormacbuzz

On the contrary, you are using Hitchens' death to DIMINISH his own words. Would he thank you for that? The fact is, Hitchens debated Craig and actually was capable of being respectful. This adds all the more reason to honour Hitchens life and respect his death. He was a better man than Dawkins, but Dawkins is still alive and still has time to shape up. Whether he actually will learn from Hitchens, however, is another matter.

[cormacbuzz]

@Birdieupon If the video stopped at 0:56 then you may have a point. If the video maker actually wanted to honor Christopher Hitchens then they would have left any reference to Richard Dawkins out. It does nothing but provoke.

[Birdieupon]

@cormacbuzz

Since when was provoking bad? Provoking people to realize what a great guy Hitch was, and what a coward Dawkins is, simply kills two birds with one stone!

[983215ljhlkadbspig6y]

Hitchens is deeper, more thorough and more articulated than Dawkins, in my opinion, and Hitchens was sort of embarassed by Craig in that famous two hour debate. Craig has developed a sound, unshakable argument in favour of God's existence, and he uses it all the time; it does get boring, but it is so perfect and so hard to refute that you can't blame him for always using it. My point is, there is no way Dawkins would ever have a chance against Craig; you will never see those two spar one-on-one.

[1NationUnderNothing]

I don't know why I see my fellow atheists getting defensive for Dawkins about this point. I have nothing but respect for Dawkins in his own right. But, Dawkins did avoid a debate when he said he would debate anyone, that is true and anyone of the skeptical community who embrace facts should know that. Regardless of situation, context, or emotionally held convictions, that is what happened. The honor to Hitchens still stands, and I enjoyed it, thanks to the uploader.

[FaithfulWitness6]

@1NationUnderNothing I would think that the idea of unreasonable and stubborn defensiveness of any criticism (fact-based or not) of a particular personality would be abhorrent to atheists. It's shocking to see so much of it on this subject. I expected your consistency from most atheists, or at least many.

[1NationUnderNothing]

@FaithfulWitness6 Atheism isn't hate, and my fellow atheists would do well to remember that. Dawkins doesn't need atheists to defend him, so we shouldn't propose to do so. He fucked up, that's that. I have great respect for civility met with civility, and vigor for anger met with anger, but all things in equal proportion to their necessity. Atheists getting angry because you don't like Dawkins is just like Christians getting mad at me for not liking Joel Osteen. It's pointless.

[nomesbirdy]

Sad he died as far as I know unbelieving. I'm sure William lane Craig would have happily lead him in the truth had he asked.

[underdescribed]

Wow... quite a ballsy video...

[ColonelBonza]

Hitchens would go up against anyone. He is regarded one of the best public speakers in the world. It's a shame he passed away. RIP

[LogicallyConsistent]

Richard Dawkins is a very intelligent man, but he lacks wisdom and is blind to spiritual things. He is a fool (Psalm 14:1) and a coward. He is a prime example of *the blind leading the blind" (the latter being his slavishly devoted followers). The "New Atheism" is nothing more than the same old "if God does not fit MY preconceptions/biases/preferen­ces He does not exist" fundamentalist vitriol unbelievers have always spewed forth.

[martinjackson909]

Do you know that Jesus mostly preached love and harmony? Do you know that Muhammad commanded Muslims to give charity, honor orphans, obey their mothers? No. You listen to Hitchens (a guys who made millions, from books, lectures, and articles for preaching atheism).

[PureAirSolutions]

"There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind" by Anthony Flew

This book makes Richard Dawkins' book or Christopher Hirchens book look like comic books.

If Anthony Flew can see these things, why not Dawkins or why didn't Hitchens? The answer is Flew used his mind sufficiently in regards to arguments while Dawkins and Hitchens have not done so. They failed to put pieces together.

[holdenc96]

Even as a Christian, I respect Hitchens intellectually. When I agreed with him, I strongly agreed with him. When I disagreed with him, I strongly disagreed with him. I have always respected people who could challenge me intellectually, and he was one of those people. He was clever, witty, funny, and prolific to the end.

[EddieEmz26]

@holdenc96 I am with you here, which is why I don't respect Dawkins.

What I don't understand is why he can't debate Craig, he's written several books about disproving God's existence and debated

I think he's scared, out of his depth mainly, and giving the excuse he's busy is simply unprofessional and pathetic to be honest. The Reasonable Faith tour last year gave him a platform and an opportunity to vocalise his arguments from The God Delusion in public but he didn't turn up again.

[archangelcats]

just look at the many of the alias names of these you tube atheists. Would one think of them seriously when their monickers are like trashbash2001? come on now.

[archangelcats]

great end and words by shakespeare. fitting line to hitchens. And a very thought provoking if Dawkins ever sees this.

[bigvolcano]

Dawkins is a scientist, Hitchens was not and thats why there is a major difference in the reasons to debate him.

[drcraigvideos]

@bigvolcano LOL! Okay, then I guess all the scientists who have debated Craig have WAY more guts than Dawkins. Happy?

[bigvolcano]

@drcraigvideos its not guts, its rigour, i have just seen the baloney from the mock Oxford debate. i think Dawkins should leave the debates to others who are essentially trained philosophers and theologians, especially because Craig is a theologian and an essentially is a greasy moving target. so in saying the thesis of the God Delusion is right, is in no way saying that Dawkins has mustered the entirety of the the most substantial points.- he must have done a reasonably good job- as we can see!

[drcraigvideos]

@bigvolcano If it's rigour then that should give Dawkins all the more reason to debate Craig. Craig is so rigorous he's been blowing atheists out of the water. Dawkins is so rigorous he... well, he dodges debates. That's more like rigor mortis! Why not just admit that Dawkins is an intellectual pansy? At least scientists and philosophers like Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett had the guts (or rigour) to debate Craig.

[FirstLoveReigns]

@drcraigvideos Well Said :) , The Dawkins fan club members just don't like the fact their leader hides away, so they propose reasons for this so their idol will not falter in their own minds :D You can't always get people to see the light, just hope and pray they someday will :)

[Electronite1337]

@drcraigvideos

It makes a big difference what the debate is about. If it is about metaphysics or philopsohy of course a philosopher has a huge edge compared to a scientist. It is totally different thing to argue about the existence or non-existence of god than evolution for instance. It is about the area of expertise.

[empreme]

@bigvolcano Craig isn't a greasy moving target. He has been using the same arguments, the same positions, and same methods for more than 20 years. 

[kropotkinbeard1]

@empreme Yes, but in order for him to be able to force his same square arguments and positions into the many logical triangles he's usually served, he uses grease constantly. He either twists and turns things so that they fit, or he simply ignores the arguments premises and goes on to reasserting his own theory. This isn't argumentation. This is holding your hands over your ears and humming. Anyone acquainted with using language, who knows logic, etc...can make anything seem reasonable.

[relarerfhjk]

@bigvolcano "Craig is a theologian" WRONG! He's actually a brilliant philosopher, praised by some of the world's leading atheist philosophers, including Quentin Smith, as among the greatest thinkers of the past century. He has published over 200 articles in peer-reviewed journals of academic philosophy. His Kalam Cosmological Argument was recently found to have generated more responses in peer-reviewed journals than any other theist argument in the decades since publication.

[Birdieupon]

@bigvolcano

So what if Dawkins is a scientist? None of his arguments are scientific. They're philosophical.

[yistackness]

@bigvolcano The problem with Dawkins is that he comes off as hypocritical. I mean, he says his agenda is to destroy religion, but then he says he's "too busy" to debate Dr.William Lane Craig. It's a contradiction. Taking down Dr.Craig in a debate would almost seem necessary! How else can he abolish religion? By summoning up the small minority of people around the world who are atheist? Comon....

[5heynen5]

@bigvolcano It wouldn't matter if their debating about the same topic.

[jordan6030]

I've watched about 10 debates of William Lane Craig against the worlds best Atheists and what I find interesting is; Not in 1 debate have I seen any of his opponents try to tare down his arguments...instead they just stab at Christianity.

[emmthreejonny]

Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. - Napoleon

[wais910]

LOLL

"Im busy"

[Mentat1231]

Kudos to Chris Hitchens, yet again. Good form. The world has lost a great man.

[THEEVANTHETOON]

Hi, I'm Richard Dawkins, and I'll be glad to have a friendly conversation with anyone*, and I'll win the argument.

*anyone refers to popes, cardinals, and bishops, with exceptions allowed for scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, etc. but not Mr. Craig because he supports genocide. Oh yeah, there's no objective morality either.

[YahwehtheLORD]

@THEEVANTHETOON Hahaha! I seem to think of that sign (*) as conditions apply.

[MegaDude1969]

At least Hitchens was respectful, even though wrong. Most of these low grade athiest's have no argument so they normally resort to name calling and saying things like "derp"! So I guess "DERP" is there best argument now.

[unprofessionalvids]

Hitchens - Dawkins

[unprofessionalvids]

Hitchens - Dawkins

[Grinthor86]

Here, here, birdieupon!

[Grinthor86]

R.i.p. Dr. Hitchens. Gone are the honorable enemies.

[kubrox91]

Rest in peace, Hitch. I may have disagreed with your stances on religion, but I admired you as a writer. May God have mercy on you and comfort your family and friends.

[beto88keys]

@kubrox91 Couldn't agree more. I did not agree with the man regarding Christianity but i have nothing but respect for the man. I pray for his family's strength during these times.

[KiwiChristian]

Wow, that is one strong clear message.

[shine777]

to end the whole clip w/ that cowardly soundbyte of Dawkins saying, "I'm busy..." CLASSIC!!!

[babystinky]

Hitchens was not afraid to put his ideas out there, and he wasn't afraid to loose. That is something that makes him a winner in my book. He had a gift for words like no other, and sadly we won't be hearing from him again. RIP

[C0LLIDER]

I get your point, but to me this is kind of tasteless.

[migkillertwo]

These atheists on youtube who say that he is not a smart guy, or call him a "shit-slinging pseudo-philosopher", frankly are full of shit.

Is he motivated by ideology? Absolutely. Does that make his arguments any less rigorous or powerful? No. These gents who say "william lane craig is not _____." haven't taken the time to ever read a scholarly paper of his.

[rhinnawi95]

If there weren't any people like Christopher Hitchens, we wouldn't have Dr. Craig to debate them. Despite any philosophical and theological disagreements I may have with Mr. Hitchens, I still have great respect for him, especially because he actually earned that respect through a level of civility and courage Mr. Dawkins lacks. May he rest in peace.

[FirstLoveReigns]

Many loved and will miss him, including myself and pray for his friends and family and hope toward the end of his time that he had a change of heart. RIP Christopher Hitchens.

[el1ex]

God save his soul, if he was a good person!!

[Dante666]

Not sure if most of you know about Christopher Hitchens' brother, Peter Hitchens, who is on the opposite end of the God debate. There was even a "Hitchens vs Hitchens" episode when the younger Hitchens critiqued the older Hitchens' book, "God Is Not Great".

[RPM11111]

Dawkins has been the spoiled poster-boy of atheism for too long and his fall from grace was spectacular. GOD will not be mocked.

[psycofloyd]

Hitchens was what atheists should be like. Real thinkers. But I dont come across very many atheists like he was. He really was one of a kind and thats why he was my favorite.

[Birdieupon]

Hitchens met Craig at a panel willingly... ...Dawkins met Craig at a panel unwillingly.

Hitchens refers to him as Dr Craig... ...Dawkins refers to him as Mr Craig.

Hitchens admits Craig is taken seriously by atheists... ...Dawkins ignores even that his fellow "horsemen" have interacted with Craig!

Hitchens calls Craig a scholar... ...Dawkins calls Craig anything but a scholar.

Hitchens jokes about low-balling their debate... ...Dawkins actually low-balls their non-debate.

RIP CH... ...ROFL RD!

[98nafets]

@Birdieupon Well put

[Falcondick69]

@Birdieupon And would you believe atheists still go from video to video on youtube saying "craig intentionally sets up debates so he can lie and dodge 100% of the questions hes asked and then spew lies about our atheists who are baffled with bullshit" the "saving face" the new atheists are doing is well.... simply put they are following in dawkins footsteps and it doesnt look good : /

[MrDeppness]

I am so sorry that Hitchens had to come to God the hard way. I think he is facing the thing he was afraid of all of his life right now astonished, speechless, and full of guilt.

[togjuice]

@MrDeppness Wishful thinking on your part, of course?

[RPM11111]

@MrDeppness

Hopefully that is the case.

[teequlah]

RIP

[doobersmanster]

WOW what a slam..HAHA...RIP Mr. Hitchens...your nonsense will be missed. May Godbless his family.

[dannywizz]

Hitchens was the only atheist debater I respected. He was knowledgeable about history, culture etc and he played it smart.

1. He had strategy: he played his strengths against the others weaknesses

2. He did tell a white lie now and then just to confuse the opposition

3. He was respectful to the opposition when they had valid points to make

This is like the star player on the Atheistic team. Now he is gone and the debates will surely become of lower quality.

I love God and I pray for Hitchens!

[stu1002]

@dannywizz Hitchens, in a way...was an emotional atheist, and when you really look at his arguments..was actually quite free to admit that. He freely admitted there was an emotional dimension to his rejection of God..was even proud of admitting that. I disagree with him..but, you knew where he stood, and he had a very low threshold for BS..of any type. I never felt him to be smug in his view..just passionate...sadly passionately wrong.

[MrNoelJMIS]

Oh! So sad...God only knows if Hitchens met Him before his death...I hope so- he was a decent fellow.

[TheFunkyTheist]

Hitchens debated Craig. Dawkins evaded Craig. Hitchens was an honest atheist. Dawkins is not my fondest atheist. Hitchens died with integrity. Dawkins lied with deceptivity. Hitchens had balls. Dawkins has dolls.

[MrRepzion]

@TheFunkyTheist Well said, lol.

[doobersmanster]

@TheFunkyTheist LOL

[AgApE010]

No no no, Hitchens was wrong! Craig isn't a philosopher, he isn't an academic, and no one takes him seriously. I'm an angry YouTube atheist with my underwear caught up my butt and Craig can't be a smart because Christians aren't smart therefore Craig isn't smart because Christians aren't smart.

Derp!

[drcraigvideos]

@AgApE010 LOL! You know, Hitchens had the guts to debate Craig. Maybe that's something Dawkins should think about more and more.

[trashbash2001]

@drcraigvideos do believe the earth is round? YES??? do you???.....okay. If you had a life, and you traveled everywhere debating people that were suitable to debate, would you waste your time debating a flat earthist??? NO of course not. Now, please. Shut the fuck up about the stupid "dawkins not having the guts" bullshit. No one who says that shit actually follows Craig. No one really knows anything about him. They just want to see a stupid debate is all.

[drcraigvideos]

@trashbash2001 Don't get all soft on me now, Trashy. I might have to take you seriously, you know. Take it up with Dawkins. He says he'll debate anybody: watch?v=80qsbsuuZjc

[YhwhKhaiMostHigh]

@drcraigvideos Don't you just love how Dawkins followers make excuses for his cowardess? I've seen it all from the "Craig is not a suitable candidate" to the Dawkins "is busy" nonsense. Oh, but let it had been the other way around and Craig backed down, do you think the atheists would shut up about it? No! They would bury Craig in insults for yrs. They are upset because their leader is a PROVEN COWARD! They need to live with it, Dawkins is a COWARD!

[TheChamseyCampaign]

@drcraigvideos William Lane Craig is a philosopher and a theologian. More specfically he's a metaphysician. A biologist like Dawkins and a philosopher like Craig have nothing to say to each other. They deal with the question about God on two different planes. Only one of them recognises that.

[drcraigvideos]

@TheChamseyCampaign You're thinking is completely naive. Counless atheists who are scientists have debated Craig on the question of God's existence. If atheists think science trumps religion (like Dawkins and others think) then let's put that to a debate. If you actually read The God Delusion then you'd know that Dawkins tried to refute the PHILOSOPHICAL arguments for God.

[Birdieupon]

@trashbash2001

"Shut the fuck up about the stupid "dawkins not having the guts" bullshit."

Why don't you stop shouting and cussing like an angry little teenager who can't get a girlfriend or burst his spots? Where has all this emotional investment come from? Atheists like you like to boast about having the intellectual high ground and being "Brights"... but just read what you typed! You're an emo-atheist and truly a man after Dawkins' own cowardly heart. Thanks for the entertainment. :-P

[beto88keys]

@trashbash2001 some Dawkinist is getting his feelings hurt awww, very cute!

[AMWOODco]

@beto88keys 'Dawkinist' That got me thinking:

Join the Church of Dawkins.

We don't have a god, or priests, or a pope as they're all evil or criminal, but you are free to bow down and worship me.

We don't meet regularly, but we will take your money in the form of cash, credit cards, or professorships.

We don't believe in purpose or morality, but we do talk about the evils of other religions.

Okay, I've picked on him enough.

[TheisticThinker]

@trashbash2001 Just so you know, your reasoning was turned off while writing that. Better luck next time.

[xGr8JU5T1CE]

@trashbash2001 LOL!!!...wow really...just, wow!

[HELLawaitsall59]

@trashbash2001 Dawkins' groupies always make me smile.

[YhwhKhaiMostHigh]

@HELLawaitsall59 "Dawkins' groupies always make me smile."

Yeah me too. They have difficulty accepting the fact he's a COWARD!

[YhwhKhaiMostHigh]

@trashbash2001 After your quite emotional, illogical and pathetic rant it still must be difficult accepting the fact that Dawkins is a PROVEN COWARD! Yeah, reality can be a B**** huh, hahahaha

[synal]

@trashbash2001 Lol! Okay we won't attack your messiah's cowardice if it gets your panties in a bunch.

[kropotkinbeard1]

@synal Not sure who you are referring to, but if it's Dawkins, using the term "messiah" wouldn't be really correct. Rational people don't use such nonsense concepts or notions. Perhaps this is a projection from your own deficits and tendencies? There's nothing to attack regarding Dawkins unless you wish to try and challenge something scientific he's said, say, there is no flying spaghetti monster/god. But if you have anything to offer which even starts a debate, I'd love to hear it.

[Birdieupon]

@kropotkinbeard1

"There's nothing to attack regarding Dawkins unless you wish to try and challenge something scientific he's said, say, there is no flying spaghetti monster/god."

There is no scientific argument given against God in The God Delusion. Dawkins' arguments are philosophical, which puts him as a novice on Craig's professional turf.

And there's no FSM because spaghetti is part of the spatio-temporal universe, thus cannot be the transcendent cause, unlike God. Amateur stuff boyo!

[gmbrannan]

@trashbash2001 Using that logic, you'd have to say the US gov't also believes in a geocentric cosmology since you can find the times for sunrise and sunset on the both the NOAA website and the US Navy website. Dawkins is the one who originally threw down the gauntlet and is now running away scared because he knows he is outclassed. His actions are akin to someone jumping in the ring at the WWE, talking smack about John Cena, then refusing to fight him.

[lravenhill]

@trashbash2001 dawkins has debated many of the same mind as craig so thats not a good argument

[doobersmanster]

@AgApE010 LOL Which way did he Go George...

[xGr8JU5T1CE]

@AgApE010 Bravo! BRAVO!... the Derp at the end was a nice touch...XD

[BGfromGB]

@AgApE010 What's so intelligent about your religion of atheism when you personally cannot take on WLC and disprove his arguments. There's nothing smart about atheism when this religion of yours has nothing to prove?