Kerstin Thorborg - Brangäne - Einsam wachend in der nacht

[jrakg]

This is the best memento of a very distinguished Swedish contraslto. - John Austin, Australia

[ilnytska]

Fantastic!!!

[gwirgalon]

Hello Olena, no i DID mean use legs and keep supple on them to sing..It is vital that there be a counter balance to the effort of controlling the breath, and often that counter effort goes right into the shoulders and makes it very hard for the poor cords to do their work correctly.The kind of singing you are talking about is natural walking down the street singing that is also very lovely. I am speaking here of voice technique for professional voice use on a stage.

[OlenaGlynka]

I'm writing you a response re voice identification. Acc to my experience it's hard to find a good voice teacher unless one is really lucky :), I had been looking for more than 10 years, went through voice distruction and wrong voice idetification, so disappointed in teachers I started to study the subject myself on my own material :) and I think I don't need a teacher it's just a pleasure to take the lessons. I'm aware about general approach in my country-I can teach these professors myself :)))

[gwirgalon]

@OlenaGlynka Dear Olena. I read as many of the old singer's books about singing as I could find. And imitated the birds and their extremely resonant sound, high placed, narrow produced (it blooms after it gets out of your body, for the listener...if you hear alot of sound, not a good sign..) listen to the singers from the 30's-1955 and let their voices' technique teach you where to go.Then I did find 2 wonderful teachers. but they taught what I had heard and read of..Use your legs, keep supple.

[gwirgalon]

@OlenaGlynka No, you are wrong about the breath's importance..it is the most fundamental part of any singing technique that preserves the voice. Because, among other things, in the 365 days of the year, we only have about 3 when everything is perfectly in place and we are relaxed perfectly etc. The technique is for tose 362 other days when there is singing to be done.And also, a truly good technique brings out more feeling and colour in the voice than the singer even knew was there...

[gwirgalon]

The right place is the high placement for voice health. All the other singers get the famous wobble, that is a sign of tiredness, of the muscles in the cords being forced to move while being tense at the same time, ususally, and n the end often brings the callusses on the cords called nodes, if not careful. Low placement means that there is alot of stress and strain put on the cords also. But the terms may not be so clear to you also..eh that needs more than words! Best of luck !

[nohaylamujer]

how i love thorborg! she's mesmerizing.

[jrtrmish]

A simply fabulous pure contralto--the last of a vsnishing breed. I doubt the world wil ever hear the likes of this vocal titan again. Whew! Takes my breath away!

[Sshelly34213]

@jrtrmish What on earth is a "pure contralto" ...you either are a contralto or you're not. Is there such thing as a pure soprano? I'm sorry I've just never understood this phrase and it kind of bothers me.

[OlenaGlynka]

@Sshelly34213 You can hardly compare contralto with soprano, with all my respect to great sopranos, you cannot deny that contralto is an uncomparably more seldom sound. And if a contralto is also beautiful in timbre - than it's real treasure. It's also not a secret that many sopranos try to pretend a mezzo-soprano or contralto (not vice versa :) ) , so when you hear pure contralto posessing all this beauty - it's fabulous.

[Sshelly34213]

@OlenaGlynka To be honest I have to agree with that, I prefer the hearty sound of a contralto over a flute-y soprano. Perhaps that's because I am a contralto myself, although untrained so I'm not a "true contralto"

No I've never been to a real opera unfortunately, I lack the funds.

[OlenaGlynka]

@Sshelly34213 I must say, that real opera occurs very seldom, it's always been like this, I guess :))), I've been to different opera houses in different countries, but very seldom I could see real opera.

If you are a contralto, I sincerely congratulate you!

[Sshelly34213]

@OlenaGlynka Huh, ok, well thanks I guess. I'm definitely not a soprano and I don't believe I'm a mezzo because my comfort zone is from f below middle C to F/G above middle C. It's also most comfortable around G, A, below middle C. I am not a trained singer, so again I'm particularly certain, but for years I didn't know what to call myself.

[OlenaGlynka]

@Sshelly34213 I can talk a lot about voice identifying and there can be real supprises here, but if the most comfortable for you to sing is around G,A below middle C, then you are 80% contralto. I leave 20 % for the case that training can correct it and rise your singing register to the mezzo-soprano, I doubt about soprano here :) still you never know. This is impossible to say by correspondence :))) and actually the voice is identified not from the compass and timbre, but from its structure.

[Sshelly34213]

@OlenaGlynka Wow thank you, that analysis was very helpful. I doubt I'm going to see my singing voice rise, I tried to train myself to sing higher and it failed dismally. It could possibly go lower, but I'm not entirely certain because right now my chest voice, untrained, has hit its limit. I'm not sure what a singing teacher can do with my voice, but I've decided to take singing lessons and find out.

What exactly do you mean by "structure?"

[OlenaGlynka]

@Sshelly34213 I think it's really great to take singing lessons, I personally cannot do it because the only person I trust in my city unfortunately cannot work with me due to her circumstances, and the rest I tried to apply to know about it less than I :-D, so I have to train my voice myself at home irritating my neighbours :) when I have time and strengths. As for the voice structure I suggest that you sent me an email becuase although I try to be as brief as possible it's difficult to fit in.

[Sshelly34213]

@OlenaGlynka Hmm...that is an interesting predicament, is there anyway to try and find new people to trust? Do you live in a big city or an edge city? I would try finding someone in another town, unless it's not possible to go too far from your home.

My only problem is the finances, which no one ever seems to have around my house. I will send you a message, thanks!

[gwirgalon]

@Sshelly34213 Make sure that one, the teacher TEACHES you breath use and excercises, the most important in the end. not only talks about it. I have found diaphragm breathing the most moving for voice quality & the sanest for the voice, but there are other ways too.If your voice ever hurts, walk out.No excuse, ever, for that and a teacher can be intimidating.3.Work with someone who places high, higher than the cheeks and wide smile of today, that stiffens tone and brings down the sound.good luck

[Sshelly34213]

@gwirgalon What exactly do you mean by places high "higher than the cheeks?" My biggest problem with my voice is that I need to warm up before I start singing and I was told by a teacher that it was "overrated"

[Sshelly34213]

@gwirgalon I was looking up some definitions and this one seemed to be the closest to how I would describe my voice: Dramatischer Alt. I have no idea what that means, but that is my Fach in a nutshell.

[gwirgalon]

@Sshelly34213 The singing higher has more to do with breath control, body posture and technique of placement etc than with voice category..one of the greatest contraltos of all times,Pauline Viardot, had the same range as her sister, Malibran, a great coloratura..It's where you r comfortable a long time that "places" a singer, & where the natural breaks are, before the voice is trained to smooth them over.My range is 3+ octaves, but the easy staying in high range at length makes me a soprano..

[gwirgalon]

@Sshelly34213 interesting discussion.I was classed as coloratura soprano (Königen der Nacht), contralto, early music singer, mezzo, lyric soprano! until I learned to breathe in a new and much simpler way.. found myself singing Wagner easily for 2-3 hours a day (if I had enough steak!) at 23 years old.Now, years later, the voice is still clear (though I still need the steak for the body strength!). So my dear it may be that you have a Hochdramatischersopran voice that is quietly getting ready..

[Sshelly34213]

@gwirgalon Well the thing is that there's nothing "mezzo" about my voice, this is something I've noticed from the get go. There are no mezzo-like qualities to my voice. There's also nothing coloratura about my voice, it's not lyrical in the slightest. It's meaty lol, I know that's not a technical term, but that's the only description I can think to describe it. I may record some music for my cousin's newest cd, maybe I'll put some tracks up.

[jrtrmish]

How sad that we don't get this kind of vocal artistry nowadays.

[Sshelly34213]

@jrtrmish We don't?

Haven't you ever visited the opera? You can find some phenomenal opera singers there.

[796824]

THORBORG, as were her contemporaries, far SURPASSED ANYONE heard on the operatic stage TODAY, indeed even extending beyond this period of mediocrity.

[LohengrinT]

@796824

most of her contemporaries were the worst Amateurs the world of opera has ever seen. She is extremely good ias Brangaine though but dont generalize with her contemporaries (more off tunes and bad singing than anyone could handle)

[DragTas]

Is this the tower scene/rooftop scene?

[VivaRenata]

@DragTas This is Brangäne's passage in the middle of the love duet in the second act of Tristan. And then Isolde sings - Lausch, Geliebter! 

[Musicadoro]

Wonderful!!!!!!!

[jrakg]

This Brangaene would steal the show! - John Austin, Australia