Wedding already passed propably and the issue is a non-issue, however here is my thought from someone raised in catholic faith in country dominated by catholics (95%): there is a difference between Church as organisation and Church as earthly body of Jesus Christ. And despite the reasons why some "procedures" look like they look, you are justified not to follow them if that conflicts with your counciousness. Jesus himself condemned blind following the law. That doesn't make you right though.
As a Catholic person myself, the very best response I think I can give is to pray fervently about this.
You are after all, a Catholic because of your trust in Jesus, yeah?
So trust in Him. He's seriously the man!
Remember that there have been times when even the saints have been at loggerheads with the church for brief periods. Stay obedient obviously, but pray for a solution. Saint Faustina Kowalska did, for example, and was commended for it.
Well, from my perspective, the Catholic Church either does have apostolic succession, or it does not. If it does, then it is indeed God's Church, and therefore, it has the authority to perform the sacraments and the guidance of God. If it is not what it claims, then it has no such authority nor does it have the guidance of God. If you come to the conclusion that it is the Church of God, then you are willfully rebelling against His will. If it is not, then you are not.
Have you ever watched a show called "The Atheist Experience"? In the show they talk about everything related to religion and take viewer calls and answer questions very similar to yours from the atheist point of view. You might find interesting topics on their website in the episode descriptions.
I realise I'm not actually answering your questions and I'm definitely not thinking that you should become an atheist or anything, but I say you might want to check it out to get some new ideas.
Is it that important to get the marriage blessed, if she isn't a Catholic especially? Ask yourself if God himself cares if the church recognizes it? If you lie to the church, does the church really matter, because God will know either way?
If you think Catholicism is true it seems odd not to want to spread that around. Isn't religion for their own safety in some sense, if you believe in hell (do you?)
It makes you someone who believes in some aspects of the church and not others.
Does the ceremony itself matter that much? Your right, this is about you and her. Seems like you've already made up your mind on this.
All marrying does is ask the church or the government to spiritually or legally recognize what you and her already know; if you want the church's approval, do it their way. If not it doesn't matter if you get married she's already as much of a wife now as she will be after you do the ceremony
This from a guy who's never had a date, so take with pinch of salt >_>
Here's my thought - first off, I think of Religions as governments. The bible is the constitution, and the religion itself is the active government.
If you live in America, and disagree with what the government is doing, then does that mean that you have to leave and never return? I mean some people do that (Kubrick), but there's nothing wrong with believing in the constitution and disagreeing with how it's being used. You can be a Catholic and disagree. You SHOULD do that. It's not hypocrisy.
@janosabel Which is why I see Religion as not an inherently evil form of belief. Atheism is a movement that has been screwed up as well, as has any movement, as you said. So I don't see why there's a big argument about who is worse when everyone's equally terrible in a general sense. General as in the average person.
I was raised Catholic, and in my experience there is almost no one who entirely agrees with the church's beliefs. My parents both got married, divorced, and remarried in the church, and they had to bend over backwards to do it. My step dad was nearly 60 when he married my mom, so they weren't going to bear children obviously. I think that ignoring the church on this just makes you a normal Catholic, and depending on your parish I bet it won't even be an issue.
Arrogance isn't questioning someones motives or world view when you have a logical argument to actually back that up. It gives the opposing side a chance to atleast respond and explain their motives better. Its when you actually claim to know better "just because you do" when it starts to border on arrogance. When you actually ask if you are being arrogant, you most likely are not because you are willing to ask. :)
I guess it comes down to this. Do you think that the God you have faith in requires respect for institutional authority? Does being a "good person" in the eyes of the god require acceptance from the clergy or does god have the ability to judge you him/her/it self? Also, a personal god is by definition personal. Im not a bible expert (im an agnostic atheist :)) but does scripture demand that you belong in an institution FAR from perfect?
You should strive to live your life as the best HUMAN BEING possible, not Christian, not Muslim, not Atheist, etc. That's not to say that being the best human being possible does not intersect with being a great Muslim or Christian or Atheist. In fact you may find that in certain aspects of this goal you will be within all these groups. So what are you? I'd say, a Human Being trying to be the best one he can.
I would say that whatever you feel comfortable doing is what you should do. The things you described in the video are bullshit, as far as I'm concerned. That might not hold much weight as I am an atheist, so I would say that the whole faith in my opinion is wrong, but if it works for you that is your right. And I do believe that the opinion you hold is not uncommon. Many religious people believe that the church as an institution is wrong. So do not believe that you are in the wrong.
Eastern orthodox church as a hole don't have a clear unanimous position on the use of contraceptives, Most consider the use of contraceptives a matter left to personal conscious but like other churches they consider abortion a mortal sin .
I don't claim to know much about catholocism, but from a protestant POV, the fact you believe in the creed is enough to make your a christian, and therefore if there's things that your leaders teach that you disagree with, then it shouldn't matter. Their rules aren't as important as the message and are based on their interpretation of what God wants. You don't have to share their opinion.
You should not feel bad for taking that stance, nor should label yourself anything bad because of it.
I say you do what fits what you two want!! I myself am not a religious person so I could understand half of the situation i guess ^_^' i think you said it best when you even said "the families are there, primarily, to celebrate their children's union, the special day, etc. I find the idea of a mass being thrown into that to be superfluous, distracting, and unnecessary. It would (to my mind) be kind of like having a mass at a birthday party" good luck to you guys and congratulations again!!!!!!
Your just living life as your own person. The church can't be your master, as a parnet be your master. You should do what your own heart tells you(wow, that sounded vary 4kids). Treat your kids, as your kids. Don't treet them as another person would.
What this makes you is a non-denominational Christian. To be a Catholic, you need to believe in the infalablility of the church. I was raised RC and it took a lot to realize I had drifted away from them.
However, I still attend RC masses and still take the sacrements. Why? Well, because I believe that what is in my heart is more important than the rules.
The bottom line is, what makes you an expert is that you believe. God didn't give you the right to think just to make you a slave.
I'm an Episcopalian, which means I am Catholic in all senses of the word except protesting the (thankfully mostly past) abuses, rejecting papacy, and obviously disagreeing with the Vatican's idea of magisterium. I think you are someone who is is genuinely honest but is struggling to reconcile, I fear, something that cannot be. I am very religious and Catholic, but the idea of marriage meaning babies and contraceptives as bad is, IMO, ridiculous. Marriage is sacramentally to theosis, not sex.
My uncle/godfather who is a priest can't stand a lot of the rules and has expressed his disdain for the bishop in our area that wants him to do all these things he doesn't agree with. I don't think he is wrong or arrogant for questioning the church on how he should run his parish just like I don't think you are wrong for questioning the ways the church wants you to have your wedding.
But like your dad said, it depends on who you talk to... Do what you feel is best, not what the church wants.
By intention, I mean more expectation. There are ways to make non-catholics feel more welcome in that setting but I wouldn't expect or demand my aethiest Uncle to get into the spiritual connection.
@dieseledge What I mean is that the families are there, primarily, to celebrate their children's union, the special day, etc. I find the idea of a mass being thrown into that to be superfluous, distracting, and unnecessary. It would (to my mind) be kind of like having a mass at a birthday party, for example.
Rewatched the video. As far as what it makes you... who cares? Again, there is plenty of dissent in christianity, so there is no arrogance in disagreeing with people that plenty of other theologians you might respect also disagree with. Figure out what makes the most sense to you. If a theologian can't give a sufficient explanation, then ignore him. If they are right, their evidence and reasoning should stand on it's own.
The perfect answer is "It depends on who you talk to."
So, first of all, know this: I'm a non-religious person, though not an atheist. I have my own views on spirituality, however non-specific they may be (I believe Richard Dawkins would call it "sexed-up atheism. I call it "agnostic")
So, I'll answer your question with another question (sorry, lol): Why do you wish to put yourself in a category? Is it not an option for you to simply place yourself in a folder labled "Stan" ?
@Kachukeland That's a very important question, and one that I've been asked by a few close friends when I discuss this with them. My answer has always been: If I believe in the the Christian mysteries, the sacraments and (in a VERY basic sense) that the church is the dispenser of those sacraments, and the creed; then what am i if not roman Catholic? In other words, I don't usually go looking for a label, but I do try and better understand what my views, beliefs, and values are in line with.
@standinstann well, then you know the answer to the original question. You are in line with the Roman Catholic religion, but you don't follow blindly. You're not picky, either, you're just sensible.
BTW, do yo NEED the Roman Catholic church to provide the sacraments? Does it have to be that huge group? Can it be any group of people? If so, can it be a small group, like 10 people? Can it be as small as 5 people? How about 2 people, just the two of you perhaps?
I think the system of baptism is a flawed one in Catholicism because people don't choose to be catholic that choice is made for them, and I don't think it can mean anything if it's not your choice, but I also think that if you truly believe in the catholic faith there are some sacrifices that come with that, but I don't think they should change your plans for your family.
Hey Stan I have an answer for you. I know what you are. Non beaurocratic. I'm non religious but I believe faith is about a personal search for the truth. People go to church to find guidance and advice from like minded people. I think you should remember that while Popes, bishops, and priests have been studying and living their faith for years they're still human beings and flawed as we all are.
First of all Stan keep the hat you look great with it. Second you have every right to do what you feel is right. This why I'm not religious because churches have to many bullshit rules like the ones you mentioned. Oh plus the fact I don't believe in the Christian bible. Good stories and a big part of my childhood but I don't truly believe in it. That's my 2 cents. :)
basicly thats the path i went before i became an agnostic and then finally an atheist.
i think that you are quite correct in that the church's demands on marriage are absolutly rediculous even when i was religious i didnt believe in the church
id say seriously consider what your beliefs are, and always be open to questioning them
It makes you the typical American "pick and choose" Catholic. There's nothing wrong with that, from my point of view. As for being in a state of perpetual sin, go to confession each week. It's unfortunate that the Catholic institution imposes all of these rules to recognize marriage.
I will probably make a video about the whole "picking and choosing" thing, and why i think we don't have any choice but to do that. But to your advise about going to confession, I can't. contrary to popular understanding, confession is not without conditions. If one is not sorry for what they've doe or are doing (which i'm not) and is not contrite (which I'm not), and does not resolve to avoid the near occasion of the sin (which i don't) they can not receive absolution.
@standinstann That's true, so through confession out of the door. It's been a while since I was Catholic. Once I became a thinking adult, it was clear (to me) that being an agnostic was much more sense-able.
I would fire everyone connected to the musical chairs of abusive priests, strike humane vitae from church teaching, allow priests to marry, and form a counsel of lay people to advise the new collage of cardinals, and all church counsels.
@standinstann Maybe instead of looking to the institution for answers you should look to the bible and maybe try to find an example of someone who was in a similar situation and see how they dealt with it. For what it's worth I hope you find the answers you're looking for and that your marriage is a prosperous and blessed one.
It makes you a guy who has respect for his girlfriend. I am happy as an Agnostic and I like to think that if there's a god, he'll understand why I thought the way I thought. If he doesn't, oh well, I guess I'll have to deal with it, but I'm not gonna change in fear of that because I'm all about being myself.
I know many people raised within the Catholic Church who go through very similar internal struggles. How involved are you planning to be in Catholic services and activities? If you just plan on going to some services and confession, I am not sure how much it matters beyond the theoretical. Important, but not something to lay awake each night. So how much do you want to deal with Catholic Institution and how much of these dealings will involve you, your wife or future offspring get harassed?
Stan, to me all your objections essentially make you a Protestant. Is there any idea or theology unique to Catholicism that convinces you that other Christian theology is incorrect? I myself was baptized Anglican (aka Episcopalian) but I consider myself as a Christian only. Why? Because I believe the Apostles Creed, and I think you'd agree that everything else is secondary. This is essentially what Protestantism is, the idea that faithful believers are themselves wiser than any institution.
I might clarify this in another video since it's been suggested warmly and rightly that I might want to consider simply moving over to a non-papal (for lack of a better term) faith. The #1 most important thing that keeps me from doing that is that i truly and honestly believe in the real presence.
First of all, the idea that you can't question learned men is absurd, under any circumstances. But this is slightly different. Questioning physicists about the truth of the big bang is probably a bad idea. Just about everyone who is a cosmologist agrees.
This is not the case with theology. Theologians the world over disagree on so many things, there is no consensus among them, and as such the average person is basically required to question them, because there is no majority belief to accept.
That isn't exactly true. The overwhelming majority of the work of theologians has to do with historical research into how the Christian religion was intended to organize its self, and what exactly the faith was; starting with the creed. In that sense they know a great deal, and they've done a lot of very good work. I just think that they're wrong when it comes to many things.
Also, my issue was not whether i'm within my rights to 'question' them. Of course I can question anyone and anything I like. My issue was whether or not i'm being arrogant by thinking and suggesting that I know better than they do, what the Christian religion is.
@standinstann Oh my bad. Well, the simple matter is that on any matter that is disagreed on by many different christian denominations, you're not arrogant for arguing between them, you pretty much have to disagree with someone. As far as questioning the staples, well, that's a much tougher subject. You're best bet is to see what non-christian scholars accept. If they agree with the christian scholars, then yah, it's as close to fact as you'll get. Otherwise... well, don't ask me, I'm an atheist.
@standinstann You make a mistake. Not all theologians are christians. Theologian, in the sense I am using it, is anyone who is sincerely attempting to understand god / the supernatural. This means that, even ignoring differences between christians, there are muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc...
Saying christian theologians are in agreement is like saying 100% of evolutionary biologists believe in evolution. All persons attempting honest study would have to agree. And theology does not have that
@Sines314 I was talking only about Catholic theologians. But to your last statement: 100% of Christian theologians accept the divinity of Christ, as 100% of evolutionary biologists accept evolution. There are dissagrements as to some of the prrticulars in both cases, but they both have a universally accepted premise. that being said, I'm not sure what it has to do with anything.
Clearly YOU'RE personal beliefs DO NOT coincide w/ Roman Catholic teachings, even though you claim otherwise. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but for some reason you don't seem to want top drop the other shoe and say that you're true beliefs are probably more in line with a different branch of christianity(if I had to guess, Episcopalian as they are probably the closest to Catholic of all the Protestant sects). But then what do I know? I'm a former non-denom who moved on to Deism.
As I understand it, Catholicism is more hardcore than other branches of Christianity. If you believe in the general teachings of the church, but not with some of the specifics, you could try a Baptist or Lutheran or whatever other types of churches are out there.
Your relationship to the ecclesiastical order of the Catholic church is secondary to that of God. How your marriage ceremony goes down, the superficial ceremony is going to be a passing thing.
Essentially Protestant, That is you reject the authority of the church, without rejecting the authority of the teachings. I mean if you're just looking for a label.
Second I would say no one knows more about god than you do, not because you know anything particularly, but because no one else does either.
Of course being an atheist I am just prone to think that way.
btw Stan, I am facing the same issue, but our relationship is not as far along as you and your future wife. Whatever happens, I hope you find peace of mind :)
I've never agreed with organized religion because of all the man made rules that often make no sense. It is my belief that you should live your life by your own rules and your own spirituality. If that doesn't fit into the rules of the church, then tough. If there is a God that will judge you when you die, I think that he would be more intelligent then to send 99% of humanity to hell for reasons that conflict with one aspect of one religion. You're not living in sin, you're simply living free.
To be perfectly honest if my girlfriend and I decided to have a Catholic wedding, I wouldn't care if non-catholic family members were offended. Why? Because it's not about THEM either, and we shouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate them. If they were so offended then they wouldn't be invited.
I have more empathy for your fiance's position but not the family members.
@dieseledge I think it's more about them than it is the clergy of the RCC, a lot more actually. I'm not worried really about them being offended; I'm worried about them being disconnected which I certainly would be were i not catholic.
@standinstann you said a supreme being is necessary for the universe to continue to exist even though you admit said being doesn't need to be concious entity and so it what sense does the word "being" have to apply to it if where not even sure it has a mind
@255ad Because it has to "act" in order to preserve the cosmos in being. the word "being" (when it comes to "God") here is used somwhat differently than we commonly use it. We usually mean "person". In the context of god it simply means "A non material agent which acts".
It depends. If you think that an agent of cause is necessary too explain the existence or continuing existence of the cosmos, it makes you a deist. If you believe that that agent is a divine being who desires that you know its will and how to do it. then you would be a theist.
@standinstann do you believe sex should always have to be a expression of love or can it just a be for the soul purpose of pleasure I ask because I know your against hedonism witch I suppose means what I'm really asking is is it ever OK to indulge
If we're talking about a couple that JUST feels like making love for its own sake, no I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with that. Hedonism is a bit different, it's purely utilitarian.
@standinstann I'm not grasping why I would be so concerned about them feeling connected spiritually when that's not my intention for them. The ceremony can be drastically altered if a couple wants to slim it down or restrict the church rituals to themselves. There is more than one way to do a Catholic wedding.
If you're going to do a pick and choose video, check out worldonfire here on youtube. He talks a great deal about these sorts of issues from the view of the Church.
Here in England it's atheist/protestant country and since my own spirituality has been in a state of turmoil for the past few month I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice. However I would probably echo what others here have said and either continue practising your faith and disregard the church on this issue or convert to another denomination -- however I am ignorant as to how much of an upheaval that option would be to a person's life and faith so forgive if that's just laughable
you dont ever need a religous service. you can just have a justice of the peace perform the ceromony. Why should you need to be reconized the church ?? a marriage on its basic level is a contact between two people who commit to one another. Its a legal document. even if you dont say I do in a church or under the proceedure of "god" as long as the document is signed witnessed and notorized your married.
You dont want a catholic wedding and you dont want to raise your kids catholic,yet you want it to be recognised by the church despite the fact that you say it should just be about your love for one another. I dont get it.The church is completely irrelevant to having a happy relationship/family with one another and youre trying to shoe horn it in there like it does. In short,spirituality is not a prerequisite to a happy future for a couple and if you think it does then this quandary wont go away
Final thought/sum-up: Since I think you're handling this perfectly so far, I'd say continue making your decisions in the same vein. The church is not the religion, and it's the church you're at odds with, so here is my (paraphrased) motto: In the sentence "The Church has a problem with how I live my life," the active phrase is "The Church has a problem."
You're not getting married in Rome, so strikes me that the marriage not being recognized by the church is kind of a non-issue in most ways. Sounds like you have your head squarely screwed on, as usual, in this. IMO the NFP and contra-contraception stuff is downright Orwellian (she sees now that you have always been at war with Eurasia, and never with East Asia). @9:55 "so what does that make me," you're right, responsible and thoughtful, competent and conscientious, IMO. (cont'd.)
With no family or friends threatening to shun you or harass you (that you've mentioned) over a civil wedding, and with no apparent need within her and your own personal frameworks to kowtow to the church, you have less of a dilemma than you think. It sounds like folding on these issues would almost dirty the wedding for you specifically. As to how to reconcile this vs. continued church activity, there's a variety of obvious choices... it's your call what's right, there, like the wedding. (contd)
First let me say that I'm a big fan of you and your bro. Now, as for your conflicts regarding Catholicism, it sounds like there are other Christian denominations that might be less dogmatic and more accommodating to your personal views. BUT, if you don't believe in the resurrection/messianic divinity of Christ (forgive me if I mistook you), then I hesitate to say you're a Christian, which is fine; our God tends to just be our conscience. Any religion that demands invasive adherence is dubious.
I agree with PHUCYOUTOOB about this and this is not about them, this is about you and your partner, I don't think your partner should convert to your faith in order to marry you, it's ludicrous to think that you have to believe the same thing in order to be together
Besides, you don't have to be a roman catholic to believe in Jesus Christ and follow his teachings do you? Have you thought about leaving the catholic church but still remaining a devoted christian? It is possible isn't it?
Hey Stan, I am very pleased that you've decided if you do have children, you won't brainwash them into believing what you believe, something that too many religious parents do, I think it's a predatory act on an unformed mind and it's a violation of human rights and it should be made illegal, if should a thing is possible lol
So if you kids decided to reject all religions and become atheists, you would be happy with that?
@elcap22 Wow! I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a violation of human rights; we hand traditions and concepts about politics, economics, and morality to our children all the time in much the same sense; I just don't think it's a good idea when it comes to religion and politics.
To your question, I would be delighted with whatever conclusion they reach, so long as they had explored the issue and drawn a conclusion after giving it some thought.
Now, I'm not catholic. I don't believe in any kind of god at all. What I do believe is irrelevant. However, it does strike me that if you, a Catholic, are marrying someone non-religious, you're both making compromises. I don't see how you making compromises (in not agreeing to everything the church wants HER to agree to) is wrong. Perhaps I cannot understand this, not being of the same religion, but I'd say it makes you normal to compromise, meeting her halfway so to speak, not at all wrong.
It makes You... You! I usually have problem talking to people about religion, couse they can never understand, that I do not belong to any group. And I mean ANY! I don't believe in any particular faith, but I am not atheist either.
But if You believe in God, You have to realize, that God and church, are two different things. Church is an organisation. Nowhere in Decalogue is anything about rising childrens in faith, or agreeing with NFP. You are doing nothing against God. This is not sin!
what does it make you that you believe the spiritual teachings of the CC but not that all the proceedings are necessary , even though both were put in place by pretty much the same kind of people(with own interests)? I would say that makes you inconsistent and since no one I can think of has ever managed to get a 100% consistent worldview together I would say that makes you ... human.
@DeHerg btw if your god had a serious problem with people living together without a church ceremony he would not have waited until 1563 to come up with that concept ;)
What are you? A Catholic who rejects the authority of the Church. The proper term would be heretic. I know that many see that term as an insult, but it is an accurate description as a Heretic is one who disavows the teachings of the Church, not the Bible itself.
Frankly if you are unwilling or unable to accept the authority of the Church, I think that you should seek out a non-Catholic Church that you can attend in good faith.
I honestly think that your decision to live your life in the way you choose is not only very proper, but completely appropriate. As you said that being taught religiously is somewhat a contradiction of an 'organic' upbringing, you can't really be forced to hold conviction to yourself for knowing how to be a good person.
It's not outlandish or arrogant. The catholic clergics are just clinging to dogmas that were made hundreds and thousands of years ago for reasons that have nothing to do with anybodys faith today. The whole idea of the trinity has been waved through by a concil under roman empereor Constantine to end a bunch of petty squabbles between the roman bishops. As long as the church doesn't reevaluate many of it's traditions it should have no bearing on the thoughts of modern intelligent people.
The catholic church is an extremely outdated institution run by old men who don't even have sex. You are a reasonable, modern, young person who (I assume) obeys the law of the land. You don't need any church to sanction your actions. And based on the crap they want to dump on you, I don't see why you'd want them to.
Don't consent to be labeled, especially by the church of pedophilia.
You asked who you are to question any of the teachings of bishops, cardinals and the pope, but that's pretty much like asking who was Jesus to question the religious leaders of his time? You may of course say that he was the son of God and all that, but for all the things he saw and opposed, was he any more right or wrong than another person (not son of God) would have been?
Lol, those were the exact same books that confused matthew recommended.
Anyway, I don't see why you cannot continue to practiced your catholicism; There are many protestant christians who practiced christianity but don't attend church, why can't you as a catholic , not attend any catholic church? Or form associations with other catholics who don't agree with the catholic priests methods?
So, you observe the separation of church and wedding? :)
You're not being arrogant. By rejecting those unreasonable conditions you listed, you are preserving your values and showing self-respect. You're doing what is right for you and your wife, and it doesn't matter if the Church doesn't like it.
We would essentially be in the same boat, if I ever get married. Wouldn't a married atheist supposedly be living in sin?
What the Church wants you to do is just bureaucracy.
I like your thoughtful "discourses". (I am 74 years old :-)
janosabel 6 months ago
Hey Stan I'm a fan of your videos but I see your a Giants fan. I'm a Dodgers fan so I guess we are baseball enemies. :)
o2theh 7 months ago
@o2theh We are indeed! GIANTS BABY! =P
standinstann 7 months ago
Wedding already passed propably and the issue is a non-issue, however here is my thought from someone raised in catholic faith in country dominated by catholics (95%): there is a difference between Church as organisation and Church as earthly body of Jesus Christ. And despite the reasons why some "procedures" look like they look, you are justified not to follow them if that conflicts with your counciousness. Jesus himself condemned blind following the law. That doesn't make you right though.
Zarrov 8 months ago
Hey Stan!
Congratulations on the marriage!
As a Catholic person myself, the very best response I think I can give is to pray fervently about this.
You are after all, a Catholic because of your trust in Jesus, yeah?
So trust in Him. He's seriously the man!
Remember that there have been times when even the saints have been at loggerheads with the church for brief periods. Stay obedient obviously, but pray for a solution. Saint Faustina Kowalska did, for example, and was commended for it.
Williamsfan 9 months ago
@Williamsfan You get 100 bonus points for mentioning Saint Faustina. Her diary made a big difference in my spiritual life.
standinstann 9 months ago
Well, from my perspective, the Catholic Church either does have apostolic succession, or it does not. If it does, then it is indeed God's Church, and therefore, it has the authority to perform the sacraments and the guidance of God. If it is not what it claims, then it has no such authority nor does it have the guidance of God. If you come to the conclusion that it is the Church of God, then you are willfully rebelling against His will. If it is not, then you are not.
laserwolf65 11 months ago
Have you ever watched a show called "The Atheist Experience"? In the show they talk about everything related to religion and take viewer calls and answer questions very similar to yours from the atheist point of view. You might find interesting topics on their website in the episode descriptions.
I realise I'm not actually answering your questions and I'm definitely not thinking that you should become an atheist or anything, but I say you might want to check it out to get some new ideas.
TuJuXorX 11 months ago
What seperates Catholicism from other branches of Christianity?
If you disagree you agree with it on those areas, what does it mean to say you are a Catholic, that would not be said by saying you are a Christian?
Your description of yourself sounds rather protestant. Maybe its time to become non-denominational - how important is the church to you, or to God?
What makes you a Catholic?
Why do you want to be?
What are you to yourself is what matters. Everyone conflicts somewhat
unassumption 11 months ago
@unassumption If you google "the nicene creed" and "the sacraments" and "apostolic succession" you will find a partial answer to those questions.
standinstann 11 months ago
Is it that important to get the marriage blessed, if she isn't a Catholic especially? Ask yourself if God himself cares if the church recognizes it? If you lie to the church, does the church really matter, because God will know either way?
If you think Catholicism is true it seems odd not to want to spread that around. Isn't religion for their own safety in some sense, if you believe in hell (do you?)
It makes you someone who believes in some aspects of the church and not others.
unassumption 11 months ago
Does the ceremony itself matter that much? Your right, this is about you and her. Seems like you've already made up your mind on this.
All marrying does is ask the church or the government to spiritually or legally recognize what you and her already know; if you want the church's approval, do it their way. If not it doesn't matter if you get married she's already as much of a wife now as she will be after you do the ceremony
This from a guy who's never had a date, so take with pinch of salt >_>
unassumption 11 months ago
Here's my thought - first off, I think of Religions as governments. The bible is the constitution, and the religion itself is the active government.
If you live in America, and disagree with what the government is doing, then does that mean that you have to leave and never return? I mean some people do that (Kubrick), but there's nothing wrong with believing in the constitution and disagreeing with how it's being used. You can be a Catholic and disagree. You SHOULD do that. It's not hypocrisy.
Bassbait 11 months ago
@Bassbait, "...Religions as governments." A good parallel.
Christ was the inspirer of the Christian religion. But, as the case is with all movements, the followers screwed it up and keep screwing it up.
janosabel 6 months ago
@janosabel Which is why I see Religion as not an inherently evil form of belief. Atheism is a movement that has been screwed up as well, as has any movement, as you said. So I don't see why there's a big argument about who is worse when everyone's equally terrible in a general sense. General as in the average person.
Bassbait 6 months ago
I was raised Catholic, and in my experience there is almost no one who entirely agrees with the church's beliefs. My parents both got married, divorced, and remarried in the church, and they had to bend over backwards to do it. My step dad was nearly 60 when he married my mom, so they weren't going to bear children obviously. I think that ignoring the church on this just makes you a normal Catholic, and depending on your parish I bet it won't even be an issue.
tomatoherb 11 months ago
Arrogance isn't questioning someones motives or world view when you have a logical argument to actually back that up. It gives the opposing side a chance to atleast respond and explain their motives better. Its when you actually claim to know better "just because you do" when it starts to border on arrogance. When you actually ask if you are being arrogant, you most likely are not because you are willing to ask. :)
Faraway84 11 months ago
I guess it comes down to this. Do you think that the God you have faith in requires respect for institutional authority? Does being a "good person" in the eyes of the god require acceptance from the clergy or does god have the ability to judge you him/her/it self? Also, a personal god is by definition personal. Im not a bible expert (im an agnostic atheist :)) but does scripture demand that you belong in an institution FAR from perfect?
Faraway84 11 months ago
You should strive to live your life as the best HUMAN BEING possible, not Christian, not Muslim, not Atheist, etc. That's not to say that being the best human being possible does not intersect with being a great Muslim or Christian or Atheist. In fact you may find that in certain aspects of this goal you will be within all these groups. So what are you? I'd say, a Human Being trying to be the best one he can.
lionelricky 11 months ago
The Giants SUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKK
xP
NumberNile 11 months ago
@NumberNile
Who's the world champs baby! =P ;)
standinstann 11 months ago
@standinstann For now... >:)
NumberNile 11 months ago
I would say that whatever you feel comfortable doing is what you should do. The things you described in the video are bullshit, as far as I'm concerned. That might not hold much weight as I am an atheist, so I would say that the whole faith in my opinion is wrong, but if it works for you that is your right. And I do believe that the opinion you hold is not uncommon. Many religious people believe that the church as an institution is wrong. So do not believe that you are in the wrong.
override94 11 months ago
Eastern orthodox church as a hole don't have a clear unanimous position on the use of contraceptives, Most consider the use of contraceptives a matter left to personal conscious but like other churches they consider abortion a mortal sin .
Obasiliasfilosofos 11 months ago
what does that make you? a man who puts his loved ones before himself.
Hope you can live with that :-)
Dingus343 1 year ago
I don't claim to know much about catholocism, but from a protestant POV, the fact you believe in the creed is enough to make your a christian, and therefore if there's things that your leaders teach that you disagree with, then it shouldn't matter. Their rules aren't as important as the message and are based on their interpretation of what God wants. You don't have to share their opinion.
You should not feel bad for taking that stance, nor should label yourself anything bad because of it.
TheGerkuman 1 year ago
I say you do what fits what you two want!! I myself am not a religious person so I could understand half of the situation i guess ^_^' i think you said it best when you even said "the families are there, primarily, to celebrate their children's union, the special day, etc. I find the idea of a mass being thrown into that to be superfluous, distracting, and unnecessary. It would (to my mind) be kind of like having a mass at a birthday party" good luck to you guys and congratulations again!!!!!!
sailorsilverstar 1 year ago
Your just living life as your own person. The church can't be your master, as a parnet be your master. You should do what your own heart tells you(wow, that sounded vary 4kids). Treat your kids, as your kids. Don't treet them as another person would.
DemonofHell48 1 year ago
What this makes you is a non-denominational Christian. To be a Catholic, you need to believe in the infalablility of the church. I was raised RC and it took a lot to realize I had drifted away from them.
However, I still attend RC masses and still take the sacrements. Why? Well, because I believe that what is in my heart is more important than the rules.
The bottom line is, what makes you an expert is that you believe. God didn't give you the right to think just to make you a slave.
SLagonia 1 year ago
I'm an Episcopalian, which means I am Catholic in all senses of the word except protesting the (thankfully mostly past) abuses, rejecting papacy, and obviously disagreeing with the Vatican's idea of magisterium. I think you are someone who is is genuinely honest but is struggling to reconcile, I fear, something that cannot be. I am very religious and Catholic, but the idea of marriage meaning babies and contraceptives as bad is, IMO, ridiculous. Marriage is sacramentally to theosis, not sex.
PaladinValer 1 year ago
@PaladinValer *Correction. Delete the first except. Great proof reading on my part. Apologies.
PaladinValer 1 year ago
My uncle/godfather who is a priest can't stand a lot of the rules and has expressed his disdain for the bishop in our area that wants him to do all these things he doesn't agree with. I don't think he is wrong or arrogant for questioning the church on how he should run his parish just like I don't think you are wrong for questioning the ways the church wants you to have your wedding.
But like your dad said, it depends on who you talk to... Do what you feel is best, not what the church wants.
JuniorMints66 1 year ago
By intention, I mean more expectation. There are ways to make non-catholics feel more welcome in that setting but I wouldn't expect or demand my aethiest Uncle to get into the spiritual connection.
dieseledge 1 year ago
@dieseledge What I mean is that the families are there, primarily, to celebrate their children's union, the special day, etc. I find the idea of a mass being thrown into that to be superfluous, distracting, and unnecessary. It would (to my mind) be kind of like having a mass at a birthday party, for example.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann That's all well and good, Stan. I'm just stating how I see it, not on how you should see it.
dieseledge 1 year ago
Rewatched the video. As far as what it makes you... who cares? Again, there is plenty of dissent in christianity, so there is no arrogance in disagreeing with people that plenty of other theologians you might respect also disagree with. Figure out what makes the most sense to you. If a theologian can't give a sufficient explanation, then ignore him. If they are right, their evidence and reasoning should stand on it's own.
Sines314 1 year ago
@Sines314 well put. thank you.
standinstann 1 year ago
The perfect answer is "It depends on who you talk to."
So, first of all, know this: I'm a non-religious person, though not an atheist. I have my own views on spirituality, however non-specific they may be (I believe Richard Dawkins would call it "sexed-up atheism. I call it "agnostic")
So, I'll answer your question with another question (sorry, lol): Why do you wish to put yourself in a category? Is it not an option for you to simply place yourself in a folder labled "Stan" ?
Kachukeland 1 year ago
@Kachukeland That's a very important question, and one that I've been asked by a few close friends when I discuss this with them. My answer has always been: If I believe in the the Christian mysteries, the sacraments and (in a VERY basic sense) that the church is the dispenser of those sacraments, and the creed; then what am i if not roman Catholic? In other words, I don't usually go looking for a label, but I do try and better understand what my views, beliefs, and values are in line with.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann well, then you know the answer to the original question. You are in line with the Roman Catholic religion, but you don't follow blindly. You're not picky, either, you're just sensible.
BTW, do yo NEED the Roman Catholic church to provide the sacraments? Does it have to be that huge group? Can it be any group of people? If so, can it be a small group, like 10 people? Can it be as small as 5 people? How about 2 people, just the two of you perhaps?
Kachukeland 1 year ago
I think the system of baptism is a flawed one in Catholicism because people don't choose to be catholic that choice is made for them, and I don't think it can mean anything if it's not your choice, but I also think that if you truly believe in the catholic faith there are some sacrifices that come with that, but I don't think they should change your plans for your family.
I hope that you find your answers.
Dimbo 1 year ago
Hey Stan I have an answer for you. I know what you are. Non beaurocratic. I'm non religious but I believe faith is about a personal search for the truth. People go to church to find guidance and advice from like minded people. I think you should remember that while Popes, bishops, and priests have been studying and living their faith for years they're still human beings and flawed as we all are.
MegaBeamish 1 year ago
First of all Stan keep the hat you look great with it. Second you have every right to do what you feel is right. This why I'm not religious because churches have to many bullshit rules like the ones you mentioned. Oh plus the fact I don't believe in the Christian bible. Good stories and a big part of my childhood but I don't truly believe in it. That's my 2 cents. :)
o2theh 1 year ago
@standinstann Good for you, Stan! You don't need organized religion to be connected to God, or to follow His will.
Killermike2178 1 year ago
basicly thats the path i went before i became an agnostic and then finally an atheist.
i think that you are quite correct in that the church's demands on marriage are absolutly rediculous even when i was religious i didnt believe in the church
id say seriously consider what your beliefs are, and always be open to questioning them
AstOnokReviews 1 year ago
It makes you the typical American "pick and choose" Catholic. There's nothing wrong with that, from my point of view. As for being in a state of perpetual sin, go to confession each week. It's unfortunate that the Catholic institution imposes all of these rules to recognize marriage.
hal1992 1 year ago
@hal1992
I will probably make a video about the whole "picking and choosing" thing, and why i think we don't have any choice but to do that. But to your advise about going to confession, I can't. contrary to popular understanding, confession is not without conditions. If one is not sorry for what they've doe or are doing (which i'm not) and is not contrite (which I'm not), and does not resolve to avoid the near occasion of the sin (which i don't) they can not receive absolution.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann That's true, so through confession out of the door. It's been a while since I was Catholic. Once I became a thinking adult, it was clear (to me) that being an agnostic was much more sense-able.
hal1992 1 year ago
Stan should be the Pope.
theFFVIguy 1 year ago
@theFFVIguy
I would fire everyone connected to the musical chairs of abusive priests, strike humane vitae from church teaching, allow priests to marry, and form a counsel of lay people to advise the new collage of cardinals, and all church counsels.
I am not kidding.
standinstann 1 year ago 3
@standinstann Maybe instead of looking to the institution for answers you should look to the bible and maybe try to find an example of someone who was in a similar situation and see how they dealt with it. For what it's worth I hope you find the answers you're looking for and that your marriage is a prosperous and blessed one.
MegaBeamish 1 year ago
Also, do those "non-catholic family members" include Matthew in anyway ;)?
kbomb13 1 year ago
@kbomb13
Haha, we do not discuss such things ;)
standinstann 1 year ago
It makes you a guy who has respect for his girlfriend. I am happy as an Agnostic and I like to think that if there's a god, he'll understand why I thought the way I thought. If he doesn't, oh well, I guess I'll have to deal with it, but I'm not gonna change in fear of that because I'm all about being myself.
kbomb13 1 year ago
I know many people raised within the Catholic Church who go through very similar internal struggles. How involved are you planning to be in Catholic services and activities? If you just plan on going to some services and confession, I am not sure how much it matters beyond the theoretical. Important, but not something to lay awake each night. So how much do you want to deal with Catholic Institution and how much of these dealings will involve you, your wife or future offspring get harassed?
PrairieOasos 1 year ago
Stan, to me all your objections essentially make you a Protestant. Is there any idea or theology unique to Catholicism that convinces you that other Christian theology is incorrect? I myself was baptized Anglican (aka Episcopalian) but I consider myself as a Christian only. Why? Because I believe the Apostles Creed, and I think you'd agree that everything else is secondary. This is essentially what Protestantism is, the idea that faithful believers are themselves wiser than any institution.
GravityWell34 1 year ago
@GravityWell34
I might clarify this in another video since it's been suggested warmly and rightly that I might want to consider simply moving over to a non-papal (for lack of a better term) faith. The #1 most important thing that keeps me from doing that is that i truly and honestly believe in the real presence.
standinstann 1 year ago
What does this make you?
Well...I guess this makes you an ex-Catholic-in-waiting of the Christian persuasion...kinda like me.
QuartuvLarry 1 year ago
NFP? You mean Natural Family Planning?
QuartuvLarry 1 year ago
@QuartuvLarry
yes
standinstann 1 year ago
First of all, the idea that you can't question learned men is absurd, under any circumstances. But this is slightly different. Questioning physicists about the truth of the big bang is probably a bad idea. Just about everyone who is a cosmologist agrees.
This is not the case with theology. Theologians the world over disagree on so many things, there is no consensus among them, and as such the average person is basically required to question them, because there is no majority belief to accept.
Sines314 1 year ago
@Sines314
That isn't exactly true. The overwhelming majority of the work of theologians has to do with historical research into how the Christian religion was intended to organize its self, and what exactly the faith was; starting with the creed. In that sense they know a great deal, and they've done a lot of very good work. I just think that they're wrong when it comes to many things.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann
Also, my issue was not whether i'm within my rights to 'question' them. Of course I can question anyone and anything I like. My issue was whether or not i'm being arrogant by thinking and suggesting that I know better than they do, what the Christian religion is.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Oh my bad. Well, the simple matter is that on any matter that is disagreed on by many different christian denominations, you're not arrogant for arguing between them, you pretty much have to disagree with someone. As far as questioning the staples, well, that's a much tougher subject. You're best bet is to see what non-christian scholars accept. If they agree with the christian scholars, then yah, it's as close to fact as you'll get. Otherwise... well, don't ask me, I'm an atheist.
Sines314 1 year ago
@standinstann intelligent evaluation of ideas by a knowledgeable, functioning mind is never arrogant
koushiro86 1 year ago
@standinstann You make a mistake. Not all theologians are christians. Theologian, in the sense I am using it, is anyone who is sincerely attempting to understand god / the supernatural. This means that, even ignoring differences between christians, there are muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc...
Saying christian theologians are in agreement is like saying 100% of evolutionary biologists believe in evolution. All persons attempting honest study would have to agree. And theology does not have that
Sines314 1 year ago
@Sines314 I was talking only about Catholic theologians. But to your last statement: 100% of Christian theologians accept the divinity of Christ, as 100% of evolutionary biologists accept evolution. There are dissagrements as to some of the prrticulars in both cases, but they both have a universally accepted premise. that being said, I'm not sure what it has to do with anything.
standinstann 1 year ago
Clearly YOU'RE personal beliefs DO NOT coincide w/ Roman Catholic teachings, even though you claim otherwise. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but for some reason you don't seem to want top drop the other shoe and say that you're true beliefs are probably more in line with a different branch of christianity(if I had to guess, Episcopalian as they are probably the closest to Catholic of all the Protestant sects). But then what do I know? I'm a former non-denom who moved on to Deism.
SavageVandar 1 year ago
You're getting married? I didn't know that! Congratulations!
QuartuvLarry 1 year ago
As I understand it, Catholicism is more hardcore than other branches of Christianity. If you believe in the general teachings of the church, but not with some of the specifics, you could try a Baptist or Lutheran or whatever other types of churches are out there.
MrZingnigga 1 year ago
Solution: Become a Mormon. >:D
marscaleb 1 year ago
@marscaleb
HAHA! well played sir! well played!
Hows the angle? =p
standinstann 1 year ago
"I'm sure as f--- d--- hell..."
Your relationship to the ecclesiastical order of the Catholic church is secondary to that of God. How your marriage ceremony goes down, the superficial ceremony is going to be a passing thing.
You've already made up your mind.
highwind8124 1 year ago
Essentially Protestant, That is you reject the authority of the church, without rejecting the authority of the teachings. I mean if you're just looking for a label.
Second I would say no one knows more about god than you do, not because you know anything particularly, but because no one else does either.
Of course being an atheist I am just prone to think that way.
Soundofthebeating 1 year ago
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NotQuiteRight 1 year ago
btw Stan, I am facing the same issue, but our relationship is not as far along as you and your future wife. Whatever happens, I hope you find peace of mind :)
dieseledge 1 year ago
to go agenst conches neither wise nor safe
spam1138 1 year ago
I've never agreed with organized religion because of all the man made rules that often make no sense. It is my belief that you should live your life by your own rules and your own spirituality. If that doesn't fit into the rules of the church, then tough. If there is a God that will judge you when you die, I think that he would be more intelligent then to send 99% of humanity to hell for reasons that conflict with one aspect of one religion. You're not living in sin, you're simply living free.
Mite000 1 year ago
To be perfectly honest if my girlfriend and I decided to have a Catholic wedding, I wouldn't care if non-catholic family members were offended. Why? Because it's not about THEM either, and we shouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate them. If they were so offended then they wouldn't be invited.
I have more empathy for your fiance's position but not the family members.
dieseledge 1 year ago
@dieseledge I think it's more about them than it is the clergy of the RCC, a lot more actually. I'm not worried really about them being offended; I'm worried about them being disconnected which I certainly would be were i not catholic.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann you said a supreme being is necessary for the universe to continue to exist even though you admit said being doesn't need to be concious entity and so it what sense does the word "being" have to apply to it if where not even sure it has a mind
255ad 1 year ago
@255ad Because it has to "act" in order to preserve the cosmos in being. the word "being" (when it comes to "God") here is used somwhat differently than we commonly use it. We usually mean "person". In the context of god it simply means "A non material agent which acts".
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann I believe that but I prefer not to believe it's a thinking concious entity. am I theist or not? I can't tell
255ad 1 year ago
@255ad
It depends. If you think that an agent of cause is necessary too explain the existence or continuing existence of the cosmos, it makes you a deist. If you believe that that agent is a divine being who desires that you know its will and how to do it. then you would be a theist.
standinstann 1 year ago
Comment removed
255ad 1 year ago
@standinstann do you believe sex should always have to be a expression of love or can it just a be for the soul purpose of pleasure I ask because I know your against hedonism witch I suppose means what I'm really asking is is it ever OK to indulge
255ad 1 year ago
@255ad
If we're talking about a couple that JUST feels like making love for its own sake, no I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with that. Hedonism is a bit different, it's purely utilitarian.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann I'm not grasping why I would be so concerned about them feeling connected spiritually when that's not my intention for them. The ceremony can be drastically altered if a couple wants to slim it down or restrict the church rituals to themselves. There is more than one way to do a Catholic wedding.
If you're going to do a pick and choose video, check out worldonfire here on youtube. He talks a great deal about these sorts of issues from the view of the Church.
dieseledge 1 year ago
Here in England it's atheist/protestant country and since my own spirituality has been in a state of turmoil for the past few month I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice. However I would probably echo what others here have said and either continue practising your faith and disregard the church on this issue or convert to another denomination -- however I am ignorant as to how much of an upheaval that option would be to a person's life and faith so forgive if that's just laughable
MikeRyu 1 year ago
I have one question , do you still plan to go to church and will you go alone or will she go with you.
goku48071 1 year ago
@goku48071 completely her decision.
standinstann 1 year ago
you dont ever need a religous service. you can just have a justice of the peace perform the ceromony. Why should you need to be reconized the church ?? a marriage on its basic level is a contact between two people who commit to one another. Its a legal document. even if you dont say I do in a church or under the proceedure of "god" as long as the document is signed witnessed and notorized your married.
AutomatedCritic 1 year ago
You dont want a catholic wedding and you dont want to raise your kids catholic,yet you want it to be recognised by the church despite the fact that you say it should just be about your love for one another. I dont get it.The church is completely irrelevant to having a happy relationship/family with one another and youre trying to shoe horn it in there like it does. In short,spirituality is not a prerequisite to a happy future for a couple and if you think it does then this quandary wont go away
micronoid 1 year ago 3
Final thought/sum-up: Since I think you're handling this perfectly so far, I'd say continue making your decisions in the same vein. The church is not the religion, and it's the church you're at odds with, so here is my (paraphrased) motto: In the sentence "The Church has a problem with how I live my life," the active phrase is "The Church has a problem."
typeNtardis 1 year ago
You're not getting married in Rome, so strikes me that the marriage not being recognized by the church is kind of a non-issue in most ways. Sounds like you have your head squarely screwed on, as usual, in this. IMO the NFP and contra-contraception stuff is downright Orwellian (she sees now that you have always been at war with Eurasia, and never with East Asia). @9:55 "so what does that make me," you're right, responsible and thoughtful, competent and conscientious, IMO. (cont'd.)
typeNtardis 1 year ago
With no family or friends threatening to shun you or harass you (that you've mentioned) over a civil wedding, and with no apparent need within her and your own personal frameworks to kowtow to the church, you have less of a dilemma than you think. It sounds like folding on these issues would almost dirty the wedding for you specifically. As to how to reconcile this vs. continued church activity, there's a variety of obvious choices... it's your call what's right, there, like the wedding. (contd)
typeNtardis 1 year ago
First let me say that I'm a big fan of you and your bro. Now, as for your conflicts regarding Catholicism, it sounds like there are other Christian denominations that might be less dogmatic and more accommodating to your personal views. BUT, if you don't believe in the resurrection/messianic divinity of Christ (forgive me if I mistook you), then I hesitate to say you're a Christian, which is fine; our God tends to just be our conscience. Any religion that demands invasive adherence is dubious.
PaladinHero 1 year ago
I agree with PHUCYOUTOOB about this and this is not about them, this is about you and your partner, I don't think your partner should convert to your faith in order to marry you, it's ludicrous to think that you have to believe the same thing in order to be together
Besides, you don't have to be a roman catholic to believe in Jesus Christ and follow his teachings do you? Have you thought about leaving the catholic church but still remaining a devoted christian? It is possible isn't it?
elcap22 1 year ago
Hey Stan, I am very pleased that you've decided if you do have children, you won't brainwash them into believing what you believe, something that too many religious parents do, I think it's a predatory act on an unformed mind and it's a violation of human rights and it should be made illegal, if should a thing is possible lol
So if you kids decided to reject all religions and become atheists, you would be happy with that?
elcap22 1 year ago
@elcap22 Wow! I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a violation of human rights; we hand traditions and concepts about politics, economics, and morality to our children all the time in much the same sense; I just don't think it's a good idea when it comes to religion and politics.
To your question, I would be delighted with whatever conclusion they reach, so long as they had explored the issue and drawn a conclusion after giving it some thought.
standinstann 1 year ago
Now, I'm not catholic. I don't believe in any kind of god at all. What I do believe is irrelevant. However, it does strike me that if you, a Catholic, are marrying someone non-religious, you're both making compromises. I don't see how you making compromises (in not agreeing to everything the church wants HER to agree to) is wrong. Perhaps I cannot understand this, not being of the same religion, but I'd say it makes you normal to compromise, meeting her halfway so to speak, not at all wrong.
GalacticConflict 1 year ago
It makes You... You! I usually have problem talking to people about religion, couse they can never understand, that I do not belong to any group. And I mean ANY! I don't believe in any particular faith, but I am not atheist either.
But if You believe in God, You have to realize, that God and church, are two different things. Church is an organisation. Nowhere in Decalogue is anything about rising childrens in faith, or agreeing with NFP. You are doing nothing against God. This is not sin!
JedielDaniel 1 year ago
The belief system you described at the beginning is known as Deism.
Aerosteon 1 year ago
@Aerosteon yup yup
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann well this answers a question I've been wonting to ask since you said you where engaged and a catholic, you are indeed having sex
255ad 1 year ago
What dose marriage have to do with love? Most Americans might not like this move, but just don't bother with marriage.
Christtnot 1 year ago
what does it make you that you believe the spiritual teachings of the CC but not that all the proceedings are necessary , even though both were put in place by pretty much the same kind of people(with own interests)? I would say that makes you inconsistent and since no one I can think of has ever managed to get a 100% consistent worldview together I would say that makes you ... human.
DeHerg 1 year ago
@DeHerg btw if your god had a serious problem with people living together without a church ceremony he would not have waited until 1563 to come up with that concept ;)
DeHerg 1 year ago
What are you? A Catholic who rejects the authority of the Church. The proper term would be heretic. I know that many see that term as an insult, but it is an accurate description as a Heretic is one who disavows the teachings of the Church, not the Bible itself.
Frankly if you are unwilling or unable to accept the authority of the Church, I think that you should seek out a non-Catholic Church that you can attend in good faith.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
Comment removed
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
I honestly think that your decision to live your life in the way you choose is not only very proper, but completely appropriate. As you said that being taught religiously is somewhat a contradiction of an 'organic' upbringing, you can't really be forced to hold conviction to yourself for knowing how to be a good person.
AirCanMaster 1 year ago
It's not outlandish or arrogant. The catholic clergics are just clinging to dogmas that were made hundreds and thousands of years ago for reasons that have nothing to do with anybodys faith today. The whole idea of the trinity has been waved through by a concil under roman empereor Constantine to end a bunch of petty squabbles between the roman bishops. As long as the church doesn't reevaluate many of it's traditions it should have no bearing on the thoughts of modern intelligent people.
FlowinEnno 1 year ago
I think you answered your own question.
The catholic church is an extremely outdated institution run by old men who don't even have sex. You are a reasonable, modern, young person who (I assume) obeys the law of the land. You don't need any church to sanction your actions. And based on the crap they want to dump on you, I don't see why you'd want them to.
Don't consent to be labeled, especially by the church of pedophilia.
phucyoutoob 1 year ago
You asked who you are to question any of the teachings of bishops, cardinals and the pope, but that's pretty much like asking who was Jesus to question the religious leaders of his time? You may of course say that he was the son of God and all that, but for all the things he saw and opposed, was he any more right or wrong than another person (not son of God) would have been?
ErnilEnNaur 1 year ago
Can you reccomend those two books the are good for supporting God and the case agianst God?
Jmsadv 1 year ago
@Jmsadv
That was my brother actually, =P but...
The first was "How to think about God" By Mortimer J Adler
The second was "God, the failed hypothesis" By Victor J. Stenger
standinstann 1 year ago
Lol, those were the exact same books that confused matthew recommended.
Anyway, I don't see why you cannot continue to practiced your catholicism; There are many protestant christians who practiced christianity but don't attend church, why can't you as a catholic , not attend any catholic church? Or form associations with other catholics who don't agree with the catholic priests methods?
Pentazoid111 1 year ago
So, you observe the separation of church and wedding? :)
You're not being arrogant. By rejecting those unreasonable conditions you listed, you are preserving your values and showing self-respect. You're doing what is right for you and your wife, and it doesn't matter if the Church doesn't like it.
We would essentially be in the same boat, if I ever get married. Wouldn't a married atheist supposedly be living in sin?
What the Church wants you to do is just bureaucracy.
Don't worry about it.
QUANTUMJOKER 1 year ago 4