big nose? my european nose is smaller than asian ones!
yesterday i was reading how chinese people referred as many forms of barbarians or beasts... >.> no wonder they got owned by brits for being so stuck up minded!
Qing Dynasty was already in decline by the time the British showed up asking to open up for trade. They couldn't figure out anything that the Qing Dynasty could trade until they hit Opium. There was a net inflow of silver into China because of demand for tea and porcelainware. Opium was used to reverse this trade so that there was a net outflow of silver from the Qing to the west. The industrial revolution at the time also serious reduced the share of world GDP of China.
Excellent logic to justify the Queen of England taking a cut, a so called royalty, from the English Drug pushing trade by saying they grew lots of opium in China anyways. Maybe the logic you could use to justify your act of child rape is to say a child had already been raped by a group of pedophiles a number of times by consisting of his or her own relatives.
The English empire started as bandits and pirates under Queen Elizabeth I and became the nastiest empire ever to grace the world..
Although the reasons behind the opium war is detestable, the British did bring many improvements for their colonies, modernizing them and enriching them (ex: Hong Kong)
@lubi125 Of course you're right. Just like the Nazi's that performed rather cruel medical experiments on some select people in the concentration camps, "Although the reasons behind the human medical experiments were detestable" the Nazi experiments brought many improvements to science and future human medicines for all generations. If the ends justify the means, we should put your head in a microwave to serve as lesson to people who are rather stupid.
@foggymedia Wow wow, I have no idea why you need to directly threaten me in such a way. I can perhaps understand your hate towards the British Empire, but for God's sake keep the conversation on that subject not on how I should be executed in a rather gruesome manner in order to teach stupid people.
Sight... fact is the British Empire did indeed bring positive things, that you absolutely cannot deny, and yes that same empire did commit atrocities, just like any civilization did.
@foggymedia Gezz, is it really that hard to have a decent chat about political subjects without having to resort to uncivilized and impolite manners?
Back to topic, your comparing a holocaust (genocide) to a colonization war. Which both are less desirable. Did I ever mention I was exactly in favour of inhumane treatments? No. I simply pointed out that although great European empires did exploit their colonies, they also did contribute what they are today (good or bad)
@foggymedia As I said previously, how the British acted is indeed detestable, isn't a big enough term already? Does it mean I support this? Hell no! We should track down on criminals that launch these inhumane acts and apply a proper sentence to these "people".
I then pointed out that although Western powers committed these atrocities, they also did bring some more positive points such as economical growth.
@lubi125 Why you sending me messages saying I have to apologize for threatening you. You're just being more of an idiot - mindlessly promoting that cruel and inhumane treatment of people finds justification in the ends, and than crying like a tot rather than addressing the point. Your head in the microwave to stop stupidity only reinforces what results from your own ignorant rationalizations.
@foggymedia Well yes indeed you have to, see your simple uneducated mind cannot possibly start a simple debate or discussion without having to insult/threaten the opposite side. This proves your inability to come up with decent arguments to support your point, therefore having to use such low hitting tactics! Simple as that. Besides as I have said previously, I DO NOT support cruel/inhumane treatments, your just making up the fact I support those. I simply point out the British did also do good!
@foggymedia I mean in 1997, the people of Hong Kong were seriously concerned about being reintegrated into China. This proves how the people did indeed enjoy the benefits, comfort and security offered by the British.
You therefore cannot say that the colonizing powers were simply applying mercantilism to its full extent and stealing riches from everywhere, they did indeed contribute to the region and its people!
Western Civilization in 21st century spreads destruction/instability, misinformation. All in an effort to keep rest of the world in their place. Communism, came from Europeans, it was mistake for Chinese and Asians in general to adopt this dogmatic ideology.
@banlin1958:"It is either adapt or keep using the old outdated autocratic, isolationist in effective system of the Qing dynasty that destroyed China." - Right, China should follow British Empire's example, start a slave trade, make claims to foreign lands, attack nations to force them to unfair trading treaties. Today USA encircles China-bases in S.Korea, Japan, Phillipines, Afghanistan, Guam etc...and demonizes Chinese for their economic growth.
@danpt2000 The Qing are worse they enslave and massacre thousands of Chinese and other ethnic groups and conquere their lands. The USA maintain off shore bases to counter not China but enemies of the world. The Qing can't even match up against Japan many Chinese had to be their higher and modern education in Japan. Dr. Sun Yet Sen cut off his pigtail in defiance to the Qing.
@banlin1958 LOL did you know Qing banned legal slavery? massacres usually happen because of HUGE rebellions in china at the time. example: taiping rebellion.
usually they massacre each other lol. no one is right or wrong.
@tdzheng In fact, chinese history is a absolutely centralization political system and the Confucian in fact is a most successful tool use by monarch to salve the people who have been inculcated obey&loyalty without question. And I think Confucian is much more effect than the theocracy common in the Euro&Arab country at medieval age.
@tdzheng I know many person in here do not familiar about Chinese history especially what happen in hundreds year B.C. which is the important period of Chinese ideology begin take shape. I have to point out that Confucian became dominate ideology in China long as 3000 years is not accident, it became a core values(or you can comprehend as another religon) esteem by dominator like Christianism & Islam because it is a good psychology tools to make their people obey.
@tdzheng Qing(We also call them ethnic group of MAN differentiate the dominate ethnic group of HAN in China) is deeply effect by Ming culture, the character, technology, even the live habit copy from ethnic group of HAN, also accept the new ideology of Confucian very soon after break the SHANHAI Fortress, occupy the Beijing and became the new dominater.....
@tdzheng Qing may have banned slavery but not discrimination, the Qing discriminated against Chinese by forcing male Chinese to have the pigtail. Many rebellions against the Qing because Chinese don't like them and all the rebellion were put down very ruthlessly and with out mercy. The Brittish lead to the edn of this ruthless dynasty and allow China to modernize and to become the 1st democratic Asian nation under Dr. Sun Yet Sen of the Kumingtong. 反清复明 "Oppose the Qing, Restore the Ming"
@banlin1958 why the pig tail? during the qing dynasty, it is riddled with civil wars, clan wars, political wars, from small to big, the only way at that time to know wether you support the qing or not is by your hair, couse more often than not, the rebels against qing gov usually used the pigtail as a reason of chinese submission, ever wonder why during nationalist movement, cutting the hair were they symbol of revolution.
but hey even if manchus themselves cut their hair they are punished
@tdzheng You said it yourself the reason in forcing all Chinese to wear the pigtail is for force submission and one who refuse the pigtail are arrested and or beheaded. The pigtail was never a Chinese identity that is why the nationalist and anti Qing males cut off their pigtails a symbol of Chinese nationalism. Manchus who cut their pigtails are consider traitors by the Qing, Chinese who cut their pigtails are consider rebels.
@banlin1958 for the pigtail, as i said it is, and just, a symbol of revolution in the late 1800s.
if you want to know who imposed it, it is the chinese themselves that sided with qing that imposed death penalty, like the taiping rebellion, they cut and leave their hair long to show disloyalty.
earlier qing did dismiss the law of compulsory pigtail, it is a han official that proposed the idea of "keep the hair or lose your head", mainly for good reason.
@tdzheng There is nothing good about "keep the hair or lose your head" for many Chinese did loose their head because they refuse the pigtail. The Qing only wants pigtail no other style of hair. Chinese who sided with the Qing are the worse same just like those who sided with the Japanese during WWII. And now we still see the same Chinese who defend the brutal Qing history against the Chinese. Dr. Sun Yet Sen was one of the few brave Chinese who dare not to have the pigtail.
@banlin1958 yeah many did lose their head but most simply didn't mind about it and were more concerned about their everyday lives, which qing did improved it.
many massacres were also due to both sides for political reasons in those days.
but it did bring unprecedented unity on all different ethnic groups. you wouldn't kill each other when you look the same do you?
there's a reason why qing dynasty lasted for 200+ years. cuz they were better rulers, that is until the later part of the dynasty
@banlin1958 discrimination? well, in qing dynasty, all high posts more often than not were usually entrusted to the imperial family members(though some cases, commoners do take the post from time to time), the 8 banner system, are more entitled to army posts and banned to do trade.
and of course others others are thru confucian exam system, so why discrimination, it was because of corruption! those days those who had wealth were called the landlords. nothing to do with manchu discrimination.
@tdzheng High post are reserved for Manchus only, the 8 banner were all led by Manchus the green banner consist of collaborators or Chinese working as constabulary in control of villages and local regions under their respective control in charge of putting down small scale resistance and enforcing the Qing policies and rule with an iron hand. Those with wealth are the landlords that support their local village those with power are the warlords, the warlords are the problem not the landlords.
@banlin1958 the 8 banner is comprised of manchu, mongol, chinese and others. that's why it's called the 8 banners, divided to calvary, infantry, siege and ect
obviously led by manchu cuz the ruling family is manchu.
the green banner(mainly local chinese), which proven by the opium war, was the only effective army against the colonialists(even though in entirety qing lost the war).
and these army were led by generals(warlords), which after qing fell, they became warlords.
@banlin1958 one of the main reason why nationalist movement started was because the landlords of that time were abusing their wealth, giving loans to local farmers and making them virtual slaves.
as they become poorer so is their resentment, why i know this? because my grandma told me this from our great grandparents, the first time in the transaction of qing to kuomintang was the acquisition of wealth from the landlords, which many of these ppl flee the country LOL
@tdzheng Nationalist started ever since the Qing invaded China in the 1660s and continue on until the fall of the Qing in 1911. The nationalist wants to introduce modernization that would give every Chinese a decent life style and that was accomplish in Taiwan when the nationalist were push out of mainland by the communist. The Qing were notorious in imposing heavy taxes forcing many landlords to demand more work from their workers, warlords made things worse for landlords and workers
@banlin1958 LOL! you thought the nationalists were actually fighting for the people?!
the nationalists, stopped having elections during yuan shikai and chiang kai shek.
they were technically Fascists, and the lifestyle did not improve cause most warlords from qing dynasty were in the party(defected), without the warlords, the nationalists is nothing more than a small party in canton.
did i mention yuan shikai started his own imperial dynasty? which started another civil war and warlordism
@tdzheng Under tremendous odds the nationalist had to deal with the warlords, communist, Japan, UK and the USA. And in-spite of all that they succeeded in modernizing China, it is Facist Chinese style strengthening Confucian doctrine, respect of Chinese tradition, history, heritage and education to all but most of democracy 三民主義 Sa Min Chu Yi. The warlords were defeated others gave up their power and join the Nationalist to build a strong modern China. Yuan Shikai tried to hijack the nationalist
@banlin1958 by declaring himself emperor nationalist forces resisted his move until he lost all powers the northern expedition led by Chiang Kai Shik made sure that no more warlords will threaten the Republic of China and prepare China for modernization that included massive land reform all the good works will be interrupted with the Japanese invasion and eventually communist heavy infiltration and sabotaging and undermining everything that the Nationalist try to do good for China.
@banlin1958 while what you said about the nationalists may be true, dont forget yuan shikai and chiang kai shek were warlords also. it's more on infighting and different political opinions.
before japanese invasion started there were also civil war going on between nationalists factions. some were supported by the japanese, you get the idea.
@tdzheng Yes both were warlords the difference was that Chiang gave up his to be part of Modern China while Shikai try to re-establish the monarchy as himself the emperor. Chiang under the banner of ROC refuse Shikai and fought him to unite all warlords under one China under the doctrine Sam Min Chu Yi. Eventually all the warlords will be defeated that is when Japan became concern that they lost their warlord allies. Japan will invade in 1935 because they saw the ROC was getting stronger
@banlin1958 about yuan shikai, he established his dynasty at the wrong time, with western influences, dynastic imperialism was extremely unpopular.
if china was left without western intervention, it could go differently. as everyone was extremely poor in late qing dynasty due to opium trade, you know how opium does to everyone. take heroin addiction for example.
@banlin1958 well the nationalists also imposed heavy taxes, but bear in mind they did get rid of imperial landlords in southern china to switch the wealth to the nationalists.
corruption n the nationalist party became so evident in the coming japanese invasion that there is an economic bubble, the rich were still rich, but the masses became much poorer.
this led to increasing support for communism and civil war again after 1945
there is series of diaspora in the period of chaos 1912 to 1946.
@tdzheng The nationalist taxes were imposed against the landlords justify to rebuild China, corruption was greatly curb during the 1920s but after WWII corruption went out of control because many dedicated nationalist died during the war but most of all communist infiltration of the nationalist rank greatly affected any rebuilding efforts. The success of Taiwan is evident of the Nationalist programs that would have happen also to mainland under the Republic of China.
@tdzheng Support for the communist dwindle from 1920 -1935 industrialization was in full swing, that was also the time when the nationalist forces were able to push the red army all the way to the Russian border and was about to finish them off when coincidentally Japan invaded forcing the ROC to ceased all actions in its' final push to destroy the red army. Was it coincidental or was it luck that the red army was saved by the invading Japanese???
@banlin1958 more like japan waited and planned for this opportunity, japan has been eyeing for china for many years, japan got manchuria when china were busy fighting each other and a couple of attempt of re-establishing monarchies(re-throning of puyi, yuan shikai ect.)
which is why chiang restrained on fighting the japanese invasion as he foresee communists as an enemy, even though they were "allies" when the japanese forces started invading.
@tdzheng Chiang knew to defeat Japan he needs to unite China, the Red Army were more of a threat than Japan because Japan before WWII can be restrain by the Western powers while Chiang concentrate in defeating the red army. The ROC had a good relationship with Germany up to 1934 when Hitler took power he sign an alliance with Japan cutting off ROC's from Germany and emboldening Japan that is when Japan decided to invade China. The communist are no allies they exploited the Japan invasion.
@tdzheng ROC's main trading partner was Germany. The ROC model their system under the German system before Hitler's Nazi party took power. ROC's relationship with Germany did not seat well with England, USA and France. Modernization and industrialization were moving well, Japan became concern they knew a united and modern China will mean their doom. That is why China's factory, military and civilian equipments were mostly German made. The ROC military is also model under the German standard.
@banlin1958 Chiang AKA peanut boy dubbed by General Stiwell was a corrupted piece of shit that slayed his own men instead of killing Japs. General Stiwell wrote 20% of KMT's army starved to death while 40% deserted. Some General Chiang... I meant Peanut was. LOL!
@DragonOfQin What does the US, UK, French, Jap, Russian, German military do with deserters or refuse to be drafted? You are right back then they execute them in the 60s they put them in prison. The Qing massacre Chinese, the communist exterminate Chinese culture and civilians and turn China into a poor country that is worse than peanuts. Now, your peanut Chiang was able to turn ROC-Taiwan into a prosperous nation.
@banlin1958 Peanut army 40% deserters 20% starve to death while peanut kept 80,000 professional soldiers for the Japs. General Stilwell considered assassinating Peanut in his journal. ROFL! Quit praising Peanut, 4 star General Stilwell knew he was FUCKED UP!
@DragonOfQin Gen. Stilwell was a sympathiser of the communist, the peanut army that almost destroy the bandit red army that was save by the imperialist Japs and the USA refused to fight the Japs until Pearl Harbour. Thanks to the few dedicated Americans who fought for the Peanut army of ROC the Flying Tigers team up with the ROC they were able to keep the Japs at bay. At the end of the day it will be the Peanut that will save Chinese culture while the bandit Reds almost destroy China.
@banlin1958 Why did Peanut attack own Chinese before attacking Japs? Why? If I was in a feud with my bro I'll make sure to kick his ass but not before some stranger is attacking us both. Peanut was retarded. 40% deserter 20% starved to death. Good thing by Great granpa escaped Peanut. Peanut shit. I spit at Chiang fuck him.
@DragonOfQin Peanut was attacking the bandits communist because he knew the communist are worse than the Japs, the bandits will destroy Chinese culture and millions of Chinese will be kill by them and he was right, from 1950 -1970 the bandit communist killed millions of Chinese and nearly ruin Chinese culture. Your great grandpa escape peanut and he suffer a worse fate under the bandit communist.
@banlin1958 My great grandpa escaped Peanut to Singapore dipshit. LOL! If my brother was a killer I would beat the shit out of him but if there was any stranger that invaded our house, I'll smash that invader before settling it out with my bro. You get me? Or you still dont get the point? How were the Reds bandits when they were running from KMT? Long March have you heard of it?
@DragonOfQin Why didn't your gandpa stayed in mainland because he was escaping from the bandit communist and now your life is much better thanks to your gandpa. If the invaders were the police to arrest your killer brother would you still protect him or give him up to the police? How were the ROC peanuts when they are fighting to defend China against the communist and Japanese? The long march was a retreat the red army were about to be defeated until they were save by the Japanese got it!
@banlin1958 You make it seem that the Japs were the good guys. Japs were the POLICE? They weren't targetting the Reds son so they aint no police. They were "invaders" so they are fucking burglars and theives. Bad comparison here retard. Anyways from third party perspective aka Gen. Stiwell, I know that Peanut was a piece of shit.
@banlin1958 say what you must bitch. My brother is a piece of shit, killer, rapist, murderer, what ever. Hes still my fucking brother. Brothers stick together through thick and thin for life.
@DragonOfQin You are a (blind) loyal brother, even if your brother is plotting, scheming and planning to kill you, you will still stick by him that won't matter because you'll be dead he'll be alive taking over your property or inheritance. Chiang knew the communist were a bigger threat than the Japs because of that, that is why he need to defeat them first and let the allies fight the Japs.
@banlin1958 What plot to kill? The Commies were not in a position to kill. They were running away dumbass. You know what is the LONG MARCH? The Reds were RUNNING AWAY from KMT. Reds weren't a bigger threat than the Japs. You heard of the NANJING MASSACRE? Becuz of Peanut many Chinese got fucking raped and abused by Japs. Chinese got fucking beheaded. Chinese got fucking violated by Jap fetish orgies and shit. Fuckin Peanut I'll fucking blow his head open if he was still alive.
@DragonOfQin I can understand u that is why all u know is dumbass. Long march was a retreat and almost defeat and unification of China under the ROC. The Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward and Tien Nan Men massacres committed by the Reds surpass the Nanjing massacre by 50x. The Nanjing massacre would have been prevented if Chiang's generals had defeated the reds first. If Chiang was still alive he would have u deported to communist China, there u can be an excellent red guard!
@banlin1958 I am not a Taiwanese u fag shit. I dont suck Jap cock. If Peanut was not hunting down the Reds THE NANJING MASSACRE WOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED YOU SHIT. Fucking Peanut bastard cost innocent Chinese people to get beheaded and raped and now taiwan suck japan's cock WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? MY FUCKING GOD I HOPE PEANUT BURNS IN HELL.
@DragonOfQin So you are not Taiwanese good because Taiwanese are good nationalistic people, so what r u a fag or shit? You don't suck Jap cock only commies I understand. I am sure if Peanut is in hell he is waiting for you there :)
@banlin1958 lol I'll smash lil peanut. Better to suck commie cock that little Jap cock hahahahhaahaa. Jap cock filled with shit and herpes from Hentai I know taiwanese love that kind of stuff. Get your head chopped off and your ass fucked by Jap bayonets again HAHAHAHAH Commies dont take that shit.
@banlin1958 but in the end chiang kai shek got kidnapped by his peers and forced to put more effort on counter-attacking japan, prior to that he just continued strategically-withdrawing.
which led to the defeat by the communists. duble edged sword i should say.
though i would prefer kuomintang to rule china than communist today(cultural rev ect.)
after qing dynasty abdicated, it was chaos. no party could hold china together.
for better or worse it's a lose-lose situation after opium war =/
@tdzheng Chiang got kidnap because he refused to stop his final push to crush the red army at the same time his best generals happen to be Manchurians. Chiang wants to conduct rear guard action against Japan harassing them and get Western powers involve while he finish off the red army. From 1920 - 1934 China under ROC was progressing well until Japan invaded, that allowed the communist to infiltrate the ROC, many ROC great generals and leaders were killed during WWII, Mao made all kinds of
@banlin1958 promises that include respecting private businesses, education, and equality but after the communist gain control the first thing they did was to purge China of those businesses, follow with the great leap forward which was a disaster then the cultural revolution, they almost destroyed China within 25 years. While the ROC retreated to Taiwan and within 10 years miraculously turn Taiwan into a prosperous China the kind of China that would have happen if the mainland was under them.
@tdzheng That is why the first agenda of the Nationalist in 1911 was to defeat all the warlords so that wealth can be better distributed and education introduce to the general masses, the work of the nationalist were interrupted by the Japanese invasion and later by the communist, the Nationalist success will finally bare fruit in Taiwan that is what the Nationalist wanted to accomplish in all of China the Qing were totally against that.
@banlin1958 yeah their(nationalist) agenda was to do that and rid the colonialist domination, but bear in mind that it did not happen in their time in mainland china.
most warlords joined the nationalists during the abdication of qing dynasty, but then disintegrated into warlord states when yuan shikai(then president) declared himself emperor.
and then reunited again when japan attacked beijing.
until communism, china did not unite technically, but in paper only.
@danpt2000 : From your talk I can see u are totally ignorance and deceived by communist proganda. If u ever work in chinese individual company, especially those company which involve foreign trade, u will see what is nakedness exploitation and suppressing. The China enterprise use much lower price of labor produce commodity, and export to western country. And live the bad quality commodity to its own citizen.
@banlin1958: China maintains a trade imbalance today, as it did with the British Empire, Chinese exported Silk, Fine China, Tea-British didn't have anything Chinese wanted, creating trade imbalance. Today China has 100's billion $ trade imbalance, because All USA exports is Weapons of Mass destruction, Toxic financial debt and pornography. Who needs the USA? or Western Civilization?
@danpt2000 China trade is base on cheap labor, its $100 b surplus is due to USA generous trade policy giving the PRC special tax status without USA or Western market the PRC would have colllaps long ago under Mao. China and the world needs USA w/out US cconsumer market China's economy will collaps and we will see civil war. The Qing held back China's modernization that is why Europe and Japan was able to humiliate China. Sun Yet Sen was one of the first Chinese who stood up against the Qing.
@danpt2000 China gov can spend billion to development its aerospace satellite and missile weapon, but have no money on assurance, living room, even the child live!
Even in the 21st Century, Western nations look at China as a Sh!t hole. Listen to the rhetoric in Western media, listen to the words that come out of American/European politicians. They see China's rise as a threat, they see improvement in living standards of Chinese as a no-no. While at same time Americans invade countries for oil, spread weapons of mass destruction, and export toxic financial debt. If China is a threat, what is the United States?
I guess it all started with how much China underestimated Britain when they sent George Macartney. China just didn't know who they were dealing with and had to pay for it.
I am beginning to realise that it is not the West or Japan's to blame but China should blame themselves especially the Qing government, the Qing have exploited China if it wasn't for the West China would still be un-modernised.
@OpenTheTrollGate History and facts has been very clear the Qing under the Dowager neglected China, her court had a lavish life style and have refused to modernize China many Chinese have rebel and the Qing exploited the rebels by pointing the finger at the West. In fact IMO the West including Japan have more respect for China than the Qing. Japan and the West saw just how the Qing was wasting China, they knew that China can be greater that is why they all want to rule China.
@srdtpa Japan and the West sees the potential of China and seeing China being under an outdated dynasty that refused to modernised took the initiative to modernize China. Things could have gone worse for China, the West have no reason to enter into any treaty with the Qing government, Europe could have easily ignore China and just seize control of all of China they have the military capability and resources to do so. 1/2
@banlin1958 But they didn't, Europe continue to sign treaties that include leasing not seizing HK and Macau this show that the West did that because they respect China. Empress Dowager squandrel all the resources, funds and revenue that were suppossed to be use to modernize China, she fired and chastised all her officials who advocate for change. Thanks to Dr. Sun Yet Sen and his followers who worked tirelessly and unselfishly hard to modernise China. "Overthrow the Qing and restore the Ming"
@banlin1958 "Japan and the West sees the potential of China (...)" i imagine that the nanking massacre was motivated by love and the opium war was motivated by peace.
@banlin1958: West respect for China? What about the burning/looting of the Yuan Ming Yuan by British and French? What about Extraterritoriality and treating ordinary Chinese at same level as dogs?
@danpt2000 The" No Dogs or Chinese Allowed" sign never existed.
A period photograph of the sign in Huangpu Park shows 10 regulations. Number 4 said "Dogs and bicycles are not allowed". Another regulation restricted Chinese and others restricted things such as young women with baby carriages, etc.
It was a park for westerners.
Can you show me a photograph from the late-19th/early-20th century of a "No Dogs or Chinese Allowed" sign?.
@danpt2000 The Qing are foreign rulers they have committed atrocities against thousands of Chinese, they are more brutal than the Europeans, the Qing burn many villages, Chinese were force to wear the pigtail failure to comply = execution. The Qing treated Chinese worse than dogs. "destroy the Qing, restore the Ming", Dr. Sun Yat Sen the embodiment of the liberation of China from the Qing and father of modern China.
@banlin1958: If it wasn't for the West there would not be Communism in the world. Remember Karl Marx and Frederic Engle, two Germans who developed Marxist ideology. Why did Marxism thrive in Europe at the time? because of the abuses and excesses of the European Industrial Revolution (exploitation of working class and of colonial peoples, leading to crowded/unhygenic urban slums, pollution from coal, child labor in mines and factories...etc..Communism is European invention.
@danpt2000 And why did communism fail because it was worse than imperialism, communism almost destroyed China, more people live in poverty under communist rule. Yes communism develop in Europe so did democracy and modernization.
@banlin1958: China did not "modernize" immediately. What is so great about European "modernization"? Toppling the Qing Imperium to create a narrow Elite class, while keeping working class toiling in factories and mines? Are people better off driving cars, eating Fast Food, watching Porn on internet, owning Ipods/Ipads, while being removed from agriculture? We are now all employees for Internat'l corporations. This is the legacy of Western Imperialism.
@danpt2000 The Mayans, Aztecs, Incas and N.American tribes were as imperialistic or worse as the Europeans. Without the West, many innocent people will still be kill as human sacrifice. The big and stronger tribes have wiped out and enslave the smaller tribes that is why many tribes join the small Spanish force to destroy the brutal Aztec rulers. N. American tribes join either French or English to wipe out their enemy tribes.
@danpt2000 I guess u r not familiar with N. Am history, Mohawks allied with the British while Iroquois allied with the French, other smaller tribes will chose sides to and they chose side for economic, political and military purposes mainly the fur trade business u see Indians are business people too.
@banlin1958: apparently Native American tribes were not very good business people. They had all that land, now they restricted to Reservations carved out by white men for the red indians.
@danpt2000 So I dont know what civilization u refer as? The corrupt gov which wag the tail and flatter to the foregin power but exploit & supperessing & deceived its people in relentless fashion. Or a mightly gov who less corruption, furthermore use any method to maintain its benifit and position just make their people have better tomorow?
If let me choice it will be simplist decision, I'd rather like live free and fufill my right&duty as a citizen rather like a slave live in a corrupt country fulfill with exploitation and deceive!
@llenllenllenl: Did you know that the Qing gov't was dealing with the Tai Ping rebellion at the time? Some say the leader of the Taipings were motivated by American Evangelical Missionaries. Hong Xiu Quan of the Taiping, believed he was brother of Jesus Christ and mandated by Heaven to stage a rebellion. By the time Taipings were quelled, more people died than either of the World Wars. Imagine that...
In light of recent world history Europeans must appear like scum of the earth. Wiping out of natives of N. & S. America, enslavement of African nations through colonialist/imperialist policy, introduction of Atomic weapons to the world, building up entangling alliances and international tensions that lead to WW I and WWII, the introduction of Communist Doctrine to rest of world, these are the contributions to humanity of WEstern Civilization.
@danpt2000 Natives have been wiping each other out before the arrival of the colonials, The West expanded civilization, fought wars to defeat evil conquerors whoes only intention is the subjugation and oppression of the world.
With the decline of British Colonial Empire, and rise of American Hegemony after 2nd WW, history seems to have repeated itself, with a new trade deficit between USA and China. While China exports finished products for regular consumer use, Americans export toxic debt and weapons of war. Yet Americans don't see their own bald face hipocracy by demonizing China, even while US gov't wage wars, and occupy nations for economics and protection of "American Way of Life".
A little nitpicking comment--there is no such thing as "imports putting a dent in the [importing nation's] economy". Further, in almost all cases in the short run, and in all cases in the long run, the lower the import tariff imposed by the importing nation, the better their economy will be. Imposing tariffs hurts your economy.
Opium being legal in britain matters not, it went against Chinese laws. China said "no more" and the british forced it anyway, then abused power by expanding further. Look what happens for the love of money.
@llenllenllenl: "Opium was legal in Britain at that time. The British didn't start selling opium until after paying silver to Chinese for years and Chinese not buying British goods causing serious defecit.
Brits had no desire to conquer China, they were above all merchants." - Perhaps Columbia should legalize Crack /Cocaine, and demand the right to trade it in USA. Who cares about American law. British TRaders, particularly East India Co, had military support of British Crown.
China didn't need the silver. Silver was only used as a means to trade goods and they didn't have any need for foreign goods. They would not even have bought an airplane at that time.
dudes, stop being lame bitches by saying the british were at fault and shit... they chinese just thought they were stronger, so they needed that good arse kicking...
my grt grt grt grandfather was a director of the east india company ,i was surprised to find he was a slave trader but horrified to learn he was a drug smuggler to the extent of 900 tons per year into China a country that had banned it.then i learn HongKong was formed to facilitate the smuggling what were our forefathers,the worst kind of criminals,i feel sorry for CHINA
@SunBeamsan The Chinese had a very different mentality. They thought that technological and scientific progress nor economic development should come at the expense of the harmony between men and the environment and the harmony and peace of all people. They didn't see exploration, colonization as an opportunity. They saw it as a threat to the harmony, stability of their civilization and traditional ways of life.
@scottmcl Direct translation (no grammar): This thing came to a town named QingTian in ZheJiang province. Numbers of people tried to defend it but they became blood water in the end. Soldiers used fire weapons to shot it but could not make any damage. Any people had the ability to kill it will have a huge reward. When soldiers got close and tired to capture it, the monster jumped into water. The monster would eat people if they passed by the water.
@oturner1980 Funny how the western writerslove to go on about how the chinese viewed them as "barbarians" Given the way they have been behaving in China from the time of their first contract, I can see why. These same writers won't emphasis how the Westerners were not hesitant to sell drugs to the CHinse and didnt car about their suffering ecause of their own racism..
@kempaku982 no doubt that is true but unfortunately it went both ways as they amply demonstrate and as one can learn from reading history. Chauvinism still exists but fortunately it is nowhere near as strong today as it was 150 years ago. I think the horrors of the second world war showed everybody where that kind of thinking ultimately leads, but that's just my opinion.....
i am Chinese but i think tho the war bankrupts China, it really saves it in the long run. Without the war China would be staying in its little hole thinking itself the strongest nation... day-dreaming basically. Only because of the war coud Chinese people be awaken and starts to learn thoughts from the West, be it capitalism, nationalism, communism or science. Conflict like this brings vigour into our race, which is definitely a good thing. People shouldn't whine if they are weak anyways.
The Opium Wars (), also known as the Anglo-Chinese Wars, were the climax of trade disputes and diplomatic difficulties between China under the Qing Dynasty and the British Empire after China sought to restrict British opium traffickers. It consisted of the First Opium War from 1839 to 1842[1] and the Second Opium War from 1856 to 1860
@ed11561 The fact was that China may not have liked it and tried to force the end of it, but against a powerful force and having such large borders it proved impossible to even slow the expansion of the trade in China.
@oturner1980 From Foreign Policy: foreignpolicy [dot] com/articles/2010/07/15/venus_envy?page=full
"Just as the European great powers of the 19th c. used brute force to impose their imperial will and vision while the priggishly constitutional United States kept its hands clean and looked on (and grew stronger and richer under Britain's de facto protection), so now does the USA wield the hammer while the Europeans look askance, all the time benefiting from Washington's security umbrella."
@oturner1980 1) I agree with the thrust of your two comments above, though 19th C. America still, to me, comes out more admirable for its arms-length policy (which yes, surely served self-interest as well as a now-dead idealism) than 19th c. European powers (I'll follow up w/an interesting read on that I just found that made me think of our talk here); 2) if you watch the next "Fall of Qing" vid, you'll see the American missionaries come under heavy fire.
@oturner1980 If this were a vid about, say, the Vietnam War, America would be taking the brunt of the criticism. But this is the Opium War, and England was by far the heavy in this story. You're asking me to convict the minor accomplice and forgive the murderer, which seems a pretty silly "Anglophiliac" move. Don't be so defensive.
@mysterbee06 Yeah, but compare a nation selling tea to a nation selling opium. This reminds me how Western nations inundated opium for Chinese, crack-cocaine for blacks, alcohol for Native Americans, heroine for Latinos, etc. There is this conspiracy to further weaken minority communities while turning a profit in the process.
@mysterbee06 - Thank you very much for sharing this and your other videos on Chinese history. I would appreciate it much if you can also share the name of the song that plays at the end, as well as the artist and possible source for acquiring the music. Thank you.
21st century marijuana wars
guitarkrazzzy 1 week ago
fucking the west rob china...
BRICSSCO 1 month ago
The west has screwed china so many times and they get a way with it, bastards..
Dimitri0809 1 month ago
Until 1868, Opium was legally sold in Great Britain, (as medicinal and recreational use),
creating many British addicts.
So there must have been a degree of naivete on the part of the British, regarding selling their product, (Opium), to the Chinese.
llenllenllenl 1 month ago
big nose? my european nose is smaller than asian ones!
yesterday i was reading how chinese people referred as many forms of barbarians or beasts... >.> no wonder they got owned by brits for being so stuck up minded!
Nightberrii 2 months ago
Qing Dynasty was already in decline by the time the British showed up asking to open up for trade. They couldn't figure out anything that the Qing Dynasty could trade until they hit Opium. There was a net inflow of silver into China because of demand for tea and porcelainware. Opium was used to reverse this trade so that there was a net outflow of silver from the Qing to the west. The industrial revolution at the time also serious reduced the share of world GDP of China.
redwhitedude 2 months ago
Under Qing, China had 1/3 of the world's population and had 1/2 of the world's GDP. Too bad they got sucked out dry. Fucking barbarians.
DragonOfQin 2 months ago
@DragonOfQin like someone before said... it was already going down in Qing, their golden age was Ming dyn.
Nightberrii 2 months ago
THANK YOU. I'm doing my history fair project on the Opium Wars. Know of any good sources?
cocokrispiis712 2 months ago
great podcast lesson. thank you
ooolzooo 2 months ago
What's the name of the song at the end?
Frances3654 3 months ago
Excellent logic to justify the Queen of England taking a cut, a so called royalty, from the English Drug pushing trade by saying they grew lots of opium in China anyways. Maybe the logic you could use to justify your act of child rape is to say a child had already been raped by a group of pedophiles a number of times by consisting of his or her own relatives.
The English empire started as bandits and pirates under Queen Elizabeth I and became the nastiest empire ever to grace the world..
foggymedia 3 months ago
@foggymedia Don't be so negative!
Although the reasons behind the opium war is detestable, the British did bring many improvements for their colonies, modernizing them and enriching them (ex: Hong Kong)
lubi125 3 months ago
@lubi125 Of course you're right. Just like the Nazi's that performed rather cruel medical experiments on some select people in the concentration camps, "Although the reasons behind the human medical experiments were detestable" the Nazi experiments brought many improvements to science and future human medicines for all generations. If the ends justify the means, we should put your head in a microwave to serve as lesson to people who are rather stupid.
foggymedia 3 months ago
@foggymedia Wow wow, I have no idea why you need to directly threaten me in such a way. I can perhaps understand your hate towards the British Empire, but for God's sake keep the conversation on that subject not on how I should be executed in a rather gruesome manner in order to teach stupid people.
Sight... fact is the British Empire did indeed bring positive things, that you absolutely cannot deny, and yes that same empire did commit atrocities, just like any civilization did.
lubi125 3 months ago
@foggymedia Gezz, is it really that hard to have a decent chat about political subjects without having to resort to uncivilized and impolite manners?
Back to topic, your comparing a holocaust (genocide) to a colonization war. Which both are less desirable. Did I ever mention I was exactly in favour of inhumane treatments? No. I simply pointed out that although great European empires did exploit their colonies, they also did contribute what they are today (good or bad)
lubi125 3 months ago
@foggymedia As I said previously, how the British acted is indeed detestable, isn't a big enough term already? Does it mean I support this? Hell no! We should track down on criminals that launch these inhumane acts and apply a proper sentence to these "people".
I then pointed out that although Western powers committed these atrocities, they also did bring some more positive points such as economical growth.
lubi125 3 months ago
@lubi125 Why you sending me messages saying I have to apologize for threatening you. You're just being more of an idiot - mindlessly promoting that cruel and inhumane treatment of people finds justification in the ends, and than crying like a tot rather than addressing the point. Your head in the microwave to stop stupidity only reinforces what results from your own ignorant rationalizations.
foggymedia 3 months ago
@foggymedia Well yes indeed you have to, see your simple uneducated mind cannot possibly start a simple debate or discussion without having to insult/threaten the opposite side. This proves your inability to come up with decent arguments to support your point, therefore having to use such low hitting tactics! Simple as that. Besides as I have said previously, I DO NOT support cruel/inhumane treatments, your just making up the fact I support those. I simply point out the British did also do good!
lubi125 3 months ago
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lubi125 3 months ago
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@foggymedia I mean in 1997, the people of Hong Kong were seriously concerned about being reintegrated into China. This proves how the people did indeed enjoy the benefits, comfort and security offered by the British.
You therefore cannot say that the colonizing powers were simply applying mercantilism to its full extent and stealing riches from everywhere, they did indeed contribute to the region and its people!
lubi125 3 months ago
England did to Chinese people, what early americans did to the Indians.
moseseseseses 3 months ago
QING is not China, QING is a manchurian country
nuketothesky 4 months ago
manchurians were too weak
nuketothesky 4 months ago
反清复明 "Oppose the Qing, Restore the Ming"
banlin1958 4 months ago
Western Civilization in 21st century spreads destruction/instability, misinformation. All in an effort to keep rest of the world in their place. Communism, came from Europeans, it was mistake for Chinese and Asians in general to adopt this dogmatic ideology.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 It is either adapt or keep using the old outdated autocratic, isolationist in effective system of the Qing dynasty that destroyed China.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958:"It is either adapt or keep using the old outdated autocratic, isolationist in effective system of the Qing dynasty that destroyed China." - Right, China should follow British Empire's example, start a slave trade, make claims to foreign lands, attack nations to force them to unfair trading treaties. Today USA encircles China-bases in S.Korea, Japan, Phillipines, Afghanistan, Guam etc...and demonizes Chinese for their economic growth.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 The Qing are worse they enslave and massacre thousands of Chinese and other ethnic groups and conquere their lands. The USA maintain off shore bases to counter not China but enemies of the world. The Qing can't even match up against Japan many Chinese had to be their higher and modern education in Japan. Dr. Sun Yet Sen cut off his pigtail in defiance to the Qing.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958 LOL did you know Qing banned legal slavery? massacres usually happen because of HUGE rebellions in china at the time. example: taiping rebellion.
usually they massacre each other lol. no one is right or wrong.
tdzheng 4 months ago
@tdzheng In fact, chinese history is a absolutely centralization political system and the Confucian in fact is a most successful tool use by monarch to salve the people who have been inculcated obey&loyalty without question. And I think Confucian is much more effect than the theocracy common in the Euro&Arab country at medieval age.
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
@tdzheng I know many person in here do not familiar about Chinese history especially what happen in hundreds year B.C. which is the important period of Chinese ideology begin take shape. I have to point out that Confucian became dominate ideology in China long as 3000 years is not accident, it became a core values(or you can comprehend as another religon) esteem by dominator like Christianism & Islam because it is a good psychology tools to make their people obey.
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
@tdzheng Qing(We also call them ethnic group of MAN differentiate the dominate ethnic group of HAN in China) is deeply effect by Ming culture, the character, technology, even the live habit copy from ethnic group of HAN, also accept the new ideology of Confucian very soon after break the SHANHAI Fortress, occupy the Beijing and became the new dominater.....
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
@tdzheng Qing may have banned slavery but not discrimination, the Qing discriminated against Chinese by forcing male Chinese to have the pigtail. Many rebellions against the Qing because Chinese don't like them and all the rebellion were put down very ruthlessly and with out mercy. The Brittish lead to the edn of this ruthless dynasty and allow China to modernize and to become the 1st democratic Asian nation under Dr. Sun Yet Sen of the Kumingtong. 反清复明 "Oppose the Qing, Restore the Ming"
banlin1958 3 months ago
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@banlin1958 Between the Qing foreign rulers and the Brittish, I would prefer to be under the Brittish.
反清复明 "Oppose the Qing, Restore the Ming" Dr. Sun Yet Sen was an strong anti Qing nationalist.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 why the pig tail? during the qing dynasty, it is riddled with civil wars, clan wars, political wars, from small to big, the only way at that time to know wether you support the qing or not is by your hair, couse more often than not, the rebels against qing gov usually used the pigtail as a reason of chinese submission, ever wonder why during nationalist movement, cutting the hair were they symbol of revolution.
but hey even if manchus themselves cut their hair they are punished
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng You said it yourself the reason in forcing all Chinese to wear the pigtail is for force submission and one who refuse the pigtail are arrested and or beheaded. The pigtail was never a Chinese identity that is why the nationalist and anti Qing males cut off their pigtails a symbol of Chinese nationalism. Manchus who cut their pigtails are consider traitors by the Qing, Chinese who cut their pigtails are consider rebels.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 for the pigtail, as i said it is, and just, a symbol of revolution in the late 1800s.
if you want to know who imposed it, it is the chinese themselves that sided with qing that imposed death penalty, like the taiping rebellion, they cut and leave their hair long to show disloyalty.
earlier qing did dismiss the law of compulsory pigtail, it is a han official that proposed the idea of "keep the hair or lose your head", mainly for good reason.
go buy a book on qing history and read it
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng There is nothing good about "keep the hair or lose your head" for many Chinese did loose their head because they refuse the pigtail. The Qing only wants pigtail no other style of hair. Chinese who sided with the Qing are the worse same just like those who sided with the Japanese during WWII. And now we still see the same Chinese who defend the brutal Qing history against the Chinese. Dr. Sun Yet Sen was one of the few brave Chinese who dare not to have the pigtail.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 yeah many did lose their head but most simply didn't mind about it and were more concerned about their everyday lives, which qing did improved it.
many massacres were also due to both sides for political reasons in those days.
but it did bring unprecedented unity on all different ethnic groups. you wouldn't kill each other when you look the same do you?
there's a reason why qing dynasty lasted for 200+ years. cuz they were better rulers, that is until the later part of the dynasty
tdzheng 2 months ago
@banlin1958 discrimination? well, in qing dynasty, all high posts more often than not were usually entrusted to the imperial family members(though some cases, commoners do take the post from time to time), the 8 banner system, are more entitled to army posts and banned to do trade.
and of course others others are thru confucian exam system, so why discrimination, it was because of corruption! those days those who had wealth were called the landlords. nothing to do with manchu discrimination.
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng High post are reserved for Manchus only, the 8 banner were all led by Manchus the green banner consist of collaborators or Chinese working as constabulary in control of villages and local regions under their respective control in charge of putting down small scale resistance and enforcing the Qing policies and rule with an iron hand. Those with wealth are the landlords that support their local village those with power are the warlords, the warlords are the problem not the landlords.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 the 8 banner is comprised of manchu, mongol, chinese and others. that's why it's called the 8 banners, divided to calvary, infantry, siege and ect
obviously led by manchu cuz the ruling family is manchu.
the green banner(mainly local chinese), which proven by the opium war, was the only effective army against the colonialists(even though in entirety qing lost the war).
and these army were led by generals(warlords), which after qing fell, they became warlords.
will discuss in detail
tdzheng 3 months ago
@banlin1958 one of the main reason why nationalist movement started was because the landlords of that time were abusing their wealth, giving loans to local farmers and making them virtual slaves.
as they become poorer so is their resentment, why i know this? because my grandma told me this from our great grandparents, the first time in the transaction of qing to kuomintang was the acquisition of wealth from the landlords, which many of these ppl flee the country LOL
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng Nationalist started ever since the Qing invaded China in the 1660s and continue on until the fall of the Qing in 1911. The nationalist wants to introduce modernization that would give every Chinese a decent life style and that was accomplish in Taiwan when the nationalist were push out of mainland by the communist. The Qing were notorious in imposing heavy taxes forcing many landlords to demand more work from their workers, warlords made things worse for landlords and workers
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 LOL! you thought the nationalists were actually fighting for the people?!
the nationalists, stopped having elections during yuan shikai and chiang kai shek.
they were technically Fascists, and the lifestyle did not improve cause most warlords from qing dynasty were in the party(defected), without the warlords, the nationalists is nothing more than a small party in canton.
did i mention yuan shikai started his own imperial dynasty? which started another civil war and warlordism
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng Under tremendous odds the nationalist had to deal with the warlords, communist, Japan, UK and the USA. And in-spite of all that they succeeded in modernizing China, it is Facist Chinese style strengthening Confucian doctrine, respect of Chinese tradition, history, heritage and education to all but most of democracy 三民主義 Sa Min Chu Yi. The warlords were defeated others gave up their power and join the Nationalist to build a strong modern China. Yuan Shikai tried to hijack the nationalist
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 by declaring himself emperor nationalist forces resisted his move until he lost all powers the northern expedition led by Chiang Kai Shik made sure that no more warlords will threaten the Republic of China and prepare China for modernization that included massive land reform all the good works will be interrupted with the Japanese invasion and eventually communist heavy infiltration and sabotaging and undermining everything that the Nationalist try to do good for China.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 while what you said about the nationalists may be true, dont forget yuan shikai and chiang kai shek were warlords also. it's more on infighting and different political opinions.
before japanese invasion started there were also civil war going on between nationalists factions. some were supported by the japanese, you get the idea.
tdzheng 2 months ago
@tdzheng Yes both were warlords the difference was that Chiang gave up his to be part of Modern China while Shikai try to re-establish the monarchy as himself the emperor. Chiang under the banner of ROC refuse Shikai and fought him to unite all warlords under one China under the doctrine Sam Min Chu Yi. Eventually all the warlords will be defeated that is when Japan became concern that they lost their warlord allies. Japan will invade in 1935 because they saw the ROC was getting stronger
banlin1958 2 months ago
@banlin1958 about yuan shikai, he established his dynasty at the wrong time, with western influences, dynastic imperialism was extremely unpopular.
if china was left without western intervention, it could go differently. as everyone was extremely poor in late qing dynasty due to opium trade, you know how opium does to everyone. take heroin addiction for example.
tdzheng 2 months ago
@banlin1958 well the nationalists also imposed heavy taxes, but bear in mind they did get rid of imperial landlords in southern china to switch the wealth to the nationalists.
corruption n the nationalist party became so evident in the coming japanese invasion that there is an economic bubble, the rich were still rich, but the masses became much poorer.
this led to increasing support for communism and civil war again after 1945
there is series of diaspora in the period of chaos 1912 to 1946.
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng exodus not diaspora lol
tdzheng 3 months ago
@tdzheng The nationalist taxes were imposed against the landlords justify to rebuild China, corruption was greatly curb during the 1920s but after WWII corruption went out of control because many dedicated nationalist died during the war but most of all communist infiltration of the nationalist rank greatly affected any rebuilding efforts. The success of Taiwan is evident of the Nationalist programs that would have happen also to mainland under the Republic of China.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@tdzheng Support for the communist dwindle from 1920 -1935 industrialization was in full swing, that was also the time when the nationalist forces were able to push the red army all the way to the Russian border and was about to finish them off when coincidentally Japan invaded forcing the ROC to ceased all actions in its' final push to destroy the red army. Was it coincidental or was it luck that the red army was saved by the invading Japanese???
banlin1958 2 months ago
@banlin1958 more like japan waited and planned for this opportunity, japan has been eyeing for china for many years, japan got manchuria when china were busy fighting each other and a couple of attempt of re-establishing monarchies(re-throning of puyi, yuan shikai ect.)
which is why chiang restrained on fighting the japanese invasion as he foresee communists as an enemy, even though they were "allies" when the japanese forces started invading.
tdzheng 2 months ago
@tdzheng Chiang knew to defeat Japan he needs to unite China, the Red Army were more of a threat than Japan because Japan before WWII can be restrain by the Western powers while Chiang concentrate in defeating the red army. The ROC had a good relationship with Germany up to 1934 when Hitler took power he sign an alliance with Japan cutting off ROC's from Germany and emboldening Japan that is when Japan decided to invade China. The communist are no allies they exploited the Japan invasion.
banlin1958 2 months ago
@tdzheng ROC's main trading partner was Germany. The ROC model their system under the German system before Hitler's Nazi party took power. ROC's relationship with Germany did not seat well with England, USA and France. Modernization and industrialization were moving well, Japan became concern they knew a united and modern China will mean their doom. That is why China's factory, military and civilian equipments were mostly German made. The ROC military is also model under the German standard.
banlin1958 2 months ago
@banlin1958 Chiang AKA peanut boy dubbed by General Stiwell was a corrupted piece of shit that slayed his own men instead of killing Japs. General Stiwell wrote 20% of KMT's army starved to death while 40% deserted. Some General Chiang... I meant Peanut was. LOL!
DragonOfQin 2 months ago
@DragonOfQin What does the US, UK, French, Jap, Russian, German military do with deserters or refuse to be drafted? You are right back then they execute them in the 60s they put them in prison. The Qing massacre Chinese, the communist exterminate Chinese culture and civilians and turn China into a poor country that is worse than peanuts. Now, your peanut Chiang was able to turn ROC-Taiwan into a prosperous nation.
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 Peanut army 40% deserters 20% starve to death while peanut kept 80,000 professional soldiers for the Japs. General Stilwell considered assassinating Peanut in his journal. ROFL! Quit praising Peanut, 4 star General Stilwell knew he was FUCKED UP!
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin Gen. Stilwell was a sympathiser of the communist, the peanut army that almost destroy the bandit red army that was save by the imperialist Japs and the USA refused to fight the Japs until Pearl Harbour. Thanks to the few dedicated Americans who fought for the Peanut army of ROC the Flying Tigers team up with the ROC they were able to keep the Japs at bay. At the end of the day it will be the Peanut that will save Chinese culture while the bandit Reds almost destroy China.
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 Why did Peanut attack own Chinese before attacking Japs? Why? If I was in a feud with my bro I'll make sure to kick his ass but not before some stranger is attacking us both. Peanut was retarded. 40% deserter 20% starved to death. Good thing by Great granpa escaped Peanut. Peanut shit. I spit at Chiang fuck him.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin Peanut was attacking the bandits communist because he knew the communist are worse than the Japs, the bandits will destroy Chinese culture and millions of Chinese will be kill by them and he was right, from 1950 -1970 the bandit communist killed millions of Chinese and nearly ruin Chinese culture. Your great grandpa escape peanut and he suffer a worse fate under the bandit communist.
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 My great grandpa escaped Peanut to Singapore dipshit. LOL! If my brother was a killer I would beat the shit out of him but if there was any stranger that invaded our house, I'll smash that invader before settling it out with my bro. You get me? Or you still dont get the point? How were the Reds bandits when they were running from KMT? Long March have you heard of it?
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin Why didn't your gandpa stayed in mainland because he was escaping from the bandit communist and now your life is much better thanks to your gandpa. If the invaders were the police to arrest your killer brother would you still protect him or give him up to the police? How were the ROC peanuts when they are fighting to defend China against the communist and Japanese? The long march was a retreat the red army were about to be defeated until they were save by the Japanese got it!
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 You make it seem that the Japs were the good guys. Japs were the POLICE? They weren't targetting the Reds son so they aint no police. They were "invaders" so they are fucking burglars and theives. Bad comparison here retard. Anyways from third party perspective aka Gen. Stiwell, I know that Peanut was a piece of shit.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin The communist are worse than the Japanese, they betrayed China, I am a Nationalist first and communist never.
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 say what you must bitch. My brother is a piece of shit, killer, rapist, murderer, what ever. Hes still my fucking brother. Brothers stick together through thick and thin for life.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin You are a (blind) loyal brother, even if your brother is plotting, scheming and planning to kill you, you will still stick by him that won't matter because you'll be dead he'll be alive taking over your property or inheritance. Chiang knew the communist were a bigger threat than the Japs because of that, that is why he need to defeat them first and let the allies fight the Japs.
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 What plot to kill? The Commies were not in a position to kill. They were running away dumbass. You know what is the LONG MARCH? The Reds were RUNNING AWAY from KMT. Reds weren't a bigger threat than the Japs. You heard of the NANJING MASSACRE? Becuz of Peanut many Chinese got fucking raped and abused by Japs. Chinese got fucking beheaded. Chinese got fucking violated by Jap fetish orgies and shit. Fuckin Peanut I'll fucking blow his head open if he was still alive.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin I can understand u that is why all u know is dumbass. Long march was a retreat and almost defeat and unification of China under the ROC. The Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward and Tien Nan Men massacres committed by the Reds surpass the Nanjing massacre by 50x. The Nanjing massacre would have been prevented if Chiang's generals had defeated the reds first. If Chiang was still alive he would have u deported to communist China, there u can be an excellent red guard!
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 I am not a Taiwanese u fag shit. I dont suck Jap cock. If Peanut was not hunting down the Reds THE NANJING MASSACRE WOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED YOU SHIT. Fucking Peanut bastard cost innocent Chinese people to get beheaded and raped and now taiwan suck japan's cock WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? MY FUCKING GOD I HOPE PEANUT BURNS IN HELL.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin So you are not Taiwanese good because Taiwanese are good nationalistic people, so what r u a fag or shit? You don't suck Jap cock only commies I understand. I am sure if Peanut is in hell he is waiting for you there :)
banlin1958 1 month ago
@banlin1958 lol I'll smash lil peanut. Better to suck commie cock that little Jap cock hahahahhaahaa. Jap cock filled with shit and herpes from Hentai I know taiwanese love that kind of stuff. Get your head chopped off and your ass fucked by Jap bayonets again HAHAHAHAH Commies dont take that shit.
DragonOfQin 1 month ago
@DragonOfQin BUT I LOVE PEANUTS THEY TASTE SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!shiftone1111
AlexOlsenpang 1 month ago
@banlin1958 but in the end chiang kai shek got kidnapped by his peers and forced to put more effort on counter-attacking japan, prior to that he just continued strategically-withdrawing.
which led to the defeat by the communists. duble edged sword i should say.
though i would prefer kuomintang to rule china than communist today(cultural rev ect.)
after qing dynasty abdicated, it was chaos. no party could hold china together.
for better or worse it's a lose-lose situation after opium war =/
tdzheng 2 months ago
@tdzheng Chiang got kidnap because he refused to stop his final push to crush the red army at the same time his best generals happen to be Manchurians. Chiang wants to conduct rear guard action against Japan harassing them and get Western powers involve while he finish off the red army. From 1920 - 1934 China under ROC was progressing well until Japan invaded, that allowed the communist to infiltrate the ROC, many ROC great generals and leaders were killed during WWII, Mao made all kinds of
banlin1958 2 months ago
@banlin1958 promises that include respecting private businesses, education, and equality but after the communist gain control the first thing they did was to purge China of those businesses, follow with the great leap forward which was a disaster then the cultural revolution, they almost destroyed China within 25 years. While the ROC retreated to Taiwan and within 10 years miraculously turn Taiwan into a prosperous China the kind of China that would have happen if the mainland was under them.
banlin1958 2 months ago
@tdzheng That is why the first agenda of the Nationalist in 1911 was to defeat all the warlords so that wealth can be better distributed and education introduce to the general masses, the work of the nationalist were interrupted by the Japanese invasion and later by the communist, the Nationalist success will finally bare fruit in Taiwan that is what the Nationalist wanted to accomplish in all of China the Qing were totally against that.
banlin1958 3 months ago
@banlin1958 yeah their(nationalist) agenda was to do that and rid the colonialist domination, but bear in mind that it did not happen in their time in mainland china.
most warlords joined the nationalists during the abdication of qing dynasty, but then disintegrated into warlord states when yuan shikai(then president) declared himself emperor.
and then reunited again when japan attacked beijing.
until communism, china did not unite technically, but in paper only.
tdzheng 3 months ago
@danpt2000 : From your talk I can see u are totally ignorance and deceived by communist proganda. If u ever work in chinese individual company, especially those company which involve foreign trade, u will see what is nakedness exploitation and suppressing. The China enterprise use much lower price of labor produce commodity, and export to western country. And live the bad quality commodity to its own citizen.
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
@banlin1958: China maintains a trade imbalance today, as it did with the British Empire, Chinese exported Silk, Fine China, Tea-British didn't have anything Chinese wanted, creating trade imbalance. Today China has 100's billion $ trade imbalance, because All USA exports is Weapons of Mass destruction, Toxic financial debt and pornography. Who needs the USA? or Western Civilization?
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 China trade is base on cheap labor, its $100 b surplus is due to USA generous trade policy giving the PRC special tax status without USA or Western market the PRC would have colllaps long ago under Mao. China and the world needs USA w/out US cconsumer market China's economy will collaps and we will see civil war. The Qing held back China's modernization that is why Europe and Japan was able to humiliate China. Sun Yet Sen was one of the first Chinese who stood up against the Qing.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@danpt2000 China gov can spend billion to development its aerospace satellite and missile weapon, but have no money on assurance, living room, even the child live!
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
Even in the 21st Century, Western nations look at China as a Sh!t hole. Listen to the rhetoric in Western media, listen to the words that come out of American/European politicians. They see China's rise as a threat, they see improvement in living standards of Chinese as a no-no. While at same time Americans invade countries for oil, spread weapons of mass destruction, and export toxic financial debt. If China is a threat, what is the United States?
danpt2000 4 months ago
@BornWhiteSupremacy1 lol at the stupid white supremist KKK retard. You don't go around spreading lies like that. :-p
supersmash43 4 months ago
@ComradeMing
你可能不能说中文。
WiiPens 4 months ago in playlist WiiPens's favorites
I guess it all started with how much China underestimated Britain when they sent George Macartney. China just didn't know who they were dealing with and had to pay for it.
MolestMeHard 6 months ago
I am beginning to realise that it is not the West or Japan's to blame but China should blame themselves especially the Qing government, the Qing have exploited China if it wasn't for the West China would still be un-modernised.
banlin1958 6 months ago
@banlin1958 speculation is speculative
OpenTheTrollGate 6 months ago
@OpenTheTrollGate History and facts has been very clear the Qing under the Dowager neglected China, her court had a lavish life style and have refused to modernize China many Chinese have rebel and the Qing exploited the rebels by pointing the finger at the West. In fact IMO the West including Japan have more respect for China than the Qing. Japan and the West saw just how the Qing was wasting China, they knew that China can be greater that is why they all want to rule China.
banlin1958 6 months ago
@banlin1958 speculation is speculative
OpenTheTrollGate 6 months ago
@banlin1958 "In fact IMO the West including Japan have more respect for China than the Qing."
yeah, right...
srdtpa 5 months ago
@srdtpa Japan and the West sees the potential of China and seeing China being under an outdated dynasty that refused to modernised took the initiative to modernize China. Things could have gone worse for China, the West have no reason to enter into any treaty with the Qing government, Europe could have easily ignore China and just seize control of all of China they have the military capability and resources to do so. 1/2
banlin1958 5 months ago
@banlin1958 But they didn't, Europe continue to sign treaties that include leasing not seizing HK and Macau this show that the West did that because they respect China. Empress Dowager squandrel all the resources, funds and revenue that were suppossed to be use to modernize China, she fired and chastised all her officials who advocate for change. Thanks to Dr. Sun Yet Sen and his followers who worked tirelessly and unselfishly hard to modernise China. "Overthrow the Qing and restore the Ming"
banlin1958 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@banlin1958 "Japan and the West sees the potential of China (...)" i imagine that the nanking massacre was motivated by love and the opium war was motivated by peace.
srdtpa 5 months ago
@banlin1958: West respect for China? What about the burning/looting of the Yuan Ming Yuan by British and French? What about Extraterritoriality and treating ordinary Chinese at same level as dogs?
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 The" No Dogs or Chinese Allowed" sign never existed.
A period photograph of the sign in Huangpu Park shows 10 regulations. Number 4 said "Dogs and bicycles are not allowed". Another regulation restricted Chinese and others restricted things such as young women with baby carriages, etc.
It was a park for westerners.
Can you show me a photograph from the late-19th/early-20th century of a "No Dogs or Chinese Allowed" sign?.
llenllenllenl 4 months ago
@danpt2000 The Qing are foreign rulers they have committed atrocities against thousands of Chinese, they are more brutal than the Europeans, the Qing burn many villages, Chinese were force to wear the pigtail failure to comply = execution. The Qing treated Chinese worse than dogs. "destroy the Qing, restore the Ming", Dr. Sun Yat Sen the embodiment of the liberation of China from the Qing and father of modern China.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958: And thats suppose to excuse the attrocities Europeans committed to the Chinese people?
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 No, it only means the foreign Qing are worse than the Europeans.
banlin1958 4 months ago
Comment removed
srdtpa 5 months ago
@banlin1958: If it wasn't for the West there would not be Communism in the world. Remember Karl Marx and Frederic Engle, two Germans who developed Marxist ideology. Why did Marxism thrive in Europe at the time? because of the abuses and excesses of the European Industrial Revolution (exploitation of working class and of colonial peoples, leading to crowded/unhygenic urban slums, pollution from coal, child labor in mines and factories...etc..Communism is European invention.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 And why did communism fail because it was worse than imperialism, communism almost destroyed China, more people live in poverty under communist rule. Yes communism develop in Europe so did democracy and modernization.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958: China did not "modernize" immediately. What is so great about European "modernization"? Toppling the Qing Imperium to create a narrow Elite class, while keeping working class toiling in factories and mines? Are people better off driving cars, eating Fast Food, watching Porn on internet, owning Ipods/Ipads, while being removed from agriculture? We are now all employees for Internat'l corporations. This is the legacy of Western Imperialism.
danpt2000 4 months ago
Without Western Imperialism the Mayans, Aztecs, Incans and N. American tribes would still be here.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 The Mayans, Aztecs, Incas and N.American tribes were as imperialistic or worse as the Europeans. Without the West, many innocent people will still be kill as human sacrifice. The big and stronger tribes have wiped out and enslave the smaller tribes that is why many tribes join the small Spanish force to destroy the brutal Aztec rulers. N. American tribes join either French or English to wipe out their enemy tribes.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958: oh fking please....N. American tribes were not allies of Europeans.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 I guess u r not familiar with N. Am history, Mohawks allied with the British while Iroquois allied with the French, other smaller tribes will chose sides to and they chose side for economic, political and military purposes mainly the fur trade business u see Indians are business people too.
banlin1958 4 months ago
@banlin1958: apparently Native American tribes were not very good business people. They had all that land, now they restricted to Reservations carved out by white men for the red indians.
danpt2000 4 months ago
@danpt2000 So I dont know what civilization u refer as? The corrupt gov which wag the tail and flatter to the foregin power but exploit & supperessing & deceived its people in relentless fashion. Or a mightly gov who less corruption, furthermore use any method to maintain its benifit and position just make their people have better tomorow?
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
If let me choice it will be simplist decision, I'd rather like live free and fufill my right&duty as a citizen rather like a slave live in a corrupt country fulfill with exploitation and deceive!
HolyCrusaderY 3 months ago
Three of the stipulations of the Treaty of Tianjin-1858 and Treaty of Peking-1860
were that China allow Britain, France, Russia and the U.S. to have embassies in Beijing ( a closed city at the time).
That foreigners be allowed to travel inside China and that certain cities be open to free trade with other countries.
All of these are pretty normal things nowadays.
Maybe the Brits weren't as bad as some claim.
llenllenllenl 6 months ago
@llenllenllenl: Did you know that the Qing gov't was dealing with the Tai Ping rebellion at the time? Some say the leader of the Taipings were motivated by American Evangelical Missionaries. Hong Xiu Quan of the Taiping, believed he was brother of Jesus Christ and mandated by Heaven to stage a rebellion. By the time Taipings were quelled, more people died than either of the World Wars. Imagine that...
danpt2000 4 months ago
In light of recent world history Europeans must appear like scum of the earth. Wiping out of natives of N. & S. America, enslavement of African nations through colonialist/imperialist policy, introduction of Atomic weapons to the world, building up entangling alliances and international tensions that lead to WW I and WWII, the introduction of Communist Doctrine to rest of world, these are the contributions to humanity of WEstern Civilization.
danpt2000 7 months ago
@danpt2000 Natives have been wiping each other out before the arrival of the colonials, The West expanded civilization, fought wars to defeat evil conquerors whoes only intention is the subjugation and oppression of the world.
banlin1958 5 months ago
@danpt2000 so true :-)
supersmash43 4 months ago
With the decline of British Colonial Empire, and rise of American Hegemony after 2nd WW, history seems to have repeated itself, with a new trade deficit between USA and China. While China exports finished products for regular consumer use, Americans export toxic debt and weapons of war. Yet Americans don't see their own bald face hipocracy by demonizing China, even while US gov't wage wars, and occupy nations for economics and protection of "American Way of Life".
danpt2000 7 months ago 5
A little nitpicking comment--there is no such thing as "imports putting a dent in the [importing nation's] economy". Further, in almost all cases in the short run, and in all cases in the long run, the lower the import tariff imposed by the importing nation, the better their economy will be. Imposing tariffs hurts your economy.
rchadfitz 8 months ago
Europeans have committed countless crimes against humanity.
darrouken 8 months ago
@darrouken So did the Japanese, Chinese, Asians, Africans, Arabs, Russians, Turks, etc.
banlin1958 5 months ago
@banlin1958 You're right, I shouldn't have singled Europe out.
darrouken 5 months ago
Ah, the good old days.
scuffdoer 8 months ago
Very interesting
Did any body know any Documentary or a Movie about this issue please let me know or reply to this messages.
Thanks
RolyRS 8 months ago
Opium being legal in britain matters not, it went against Chinese laws. China said "no more" and the british forced it anyway, then abused power by expanding further. Look what happens for the love of money.
illmanuscripts 8 months ago
Opium was legal in Britain at that time.
The British didn't start selling opium until after paying silver to Chinese for years and Chinese not buying British goods causing serious defecit.
Brits had no desire to conquer China, they were above all merchants.
Chinese were a pretty racist bunch back then, tiny part of Guangzhou, (Canton) being only place "big-noses" were allowed.
llenllenllenl 9 months ago
@llenllenllenl: "Opium was legal in Britain at that time. The British didn't start selling opium until after paying silver to Chinese for years and Chinese not buying British goods causing serious defecit.
Brits had no desire to conquer China, they were above all merchants." - Perhaps Columbia should legalize Crack /Cocaine, and demand the right to trade it in USA. Who cares about American law. British TRaders, particularly East India Co, had military support of British Crown.
danpt2000 6 months ago
China didn't need the silver. Silver was only used as a means to trade goods and they didn't have any need for foreign goods. They would not even have bought an airplane at that time.
scholasticism 9 months ago
Funny... the "peace terms" at 17:19 sound like a basic outline for any IMF loan to third world countries :)
etzel33 9 months ago 2
@etzel33 LOL
WavesOfTrolls 9 months ago
india
anko8aug 10 months ago
the europeans japanese communist mao zedong americans are the devil,
anko8aug 10 months ago
whats with japanese music ?
anko8aug 10 months ago
interesting video.
deanmullen10 10 months ago
good
bobagopaa 11 months ago
china = civilized
WavesOfTrolls 1 year ago
dudes, stop being lame bitches by saying the british were at fault and shit... they chinese just thought they were stronger, so they needed that good arse kicking...
sm0keshell 1 year ago
my grt grt grt grandfather was a director of the east india company ,i was surprised to find he was a slave trader but horrified to learn he was a drug smuggler to the extent of 900 tons per year into China a country that had banned it.then i learn HongKong was formed to facilitate the smuggling what were our forefathers,the worst kind of criminals,i feel sorry for CHINA
bletchalot 1 year ago 4
@bletchalot lol give your women to us and we will forgive you
WavesOfTrolls 9 months ago
Do you have any sources for this information? Very enlightening.
SunBeamsan 1 year ago
@SunBeamsan Mostly Rhoads Murphey, "A History of Asia," c. 1990.
mysterbee06 11 months ago
@SunBeamsan The Chinese had a very different mentality. They thought that technological and scientific progress nor economic development should come at the expense of the harmony between men and the environment and the harmony and peace of all people. They didn't see exploration, colonization as an opportunity. They saw it as a threat to the harmony, stability of their civilization and traditional ways of life.
scholasticism 9 months ago 3
No wonder the Chinese hate us to this day.
xpntrvfggd 1 year ago
Thanks for this, im at University of Queensland and this is great for my Asia subject ,exam tomorrow =(
Liveone111 1 year ago
thanks for this, great summary
Liveone111 1 year ago
Follow-up...
That poster of the hairy beast does not depict the Chinese idea of an Englishman. . .
Original Image WITH accompanied text: i.imgur.com/dRDXb(DOT)png
scottmcl 1 year ago
@scottmcl Direct translation (no grammar): This thing came to a town named QingTian in ZheJiang province. Numbers of people tried to defend it but they became blood water in the end. Soldiers used fire weapons to shot it but could not make any damage. Any people had the ability to kill it will have a huge reward. When soldiers got close and tired to capture it, the monster jumped into water. The monster would eat people if they passed by the water.
Thanks to defang from reddit.
scottmcl 1 year ago
Hey the Sassoon family was also a driving force behind this too.
Chickenwing1313 1 year ago
@oturner1980 Funny how the western writerslove to go on about how the chinese viewed them as "barbarians" Given the way they have been behaving in China from the time of their first contract, I can see why. These same writers won't emphasis how the Westerners were not hesitant to sell drugs to the CHinse and didnt car about their suffering ecause of their own racism..
kempaku982 1 year ago
@kempaku982 no doubt that is true but unfortunately it went both ways as they amply demonstrate and as one can learn from reading history. Chauvinism still exists but fortunately it is nowhere near as strong today as it was 150 years ago. I think the horrors of the second world war showed everybody where that kind of thinking ultimately leads, but that's just my opinion.....
hungarygator 1 year ago
i am Chinese but i think tho the war bankrupts China, it really saves it in the long run. Without the war China would be staying in its little hole thinking itself the strongest nation... day-dreaming basically. Only because of the war coud Chinese people be awaken and starts to learn thoughts from the West, be it capitalism, nationalism, communism or science. Conflict like this brings vigour into our race, which is definitely a good thing. People shouldn't whine if they are weak anyways.
EPsuperFan 1 year ago
@EPsuperFan Now thy can get some pay back and sell drugs to the English and send in the PLAN if the UK complains..
kempaku982 1 year ago
This is really great. I am a senior at the Univeristy of Arkansas taking a history major and this is really helping me with my exam tomorrow. Thanks!
edwardprague 1 year ago
thank u!
spiritual1703 1 year ago
The Opium Wars (), also known as the Anglo-Chinese Wars, were the climax of trade disputes and diplomatic difficulties between China under the Qing Dynasty and the British Empire after China sought to restrict British opium traffickers. It consisted of the First Opium War from 1839 to 1842[1] and the Second Opium War from 1856 to 1860
ENGLISH=PURE SCUM NOW IT'S AMERICA=PURE SCUM
ed11561 1 year ago
@ed11561 The fact was that China may not have liked it and tried to force the end of it, but against a powerful force and having such large borders it proved impossible to even slow the expansion of the trade in China.
Jtomo1987 1 year ago
@oturner1980 From Foreign Policy: foreignpolicy [dot] com/articles/2010/07/15/venus_envy?page=full
"Just as the European great powers of the 19th c. used brute force to impose their imperial will and vision while the priggishly constitutional United States kept its hands clean and looked on (and grew stronger and richer under Britain's de facto protection), so now does the USA wield the hammer while the Europeans look askance, all the time benefiting from Washington's security umbrella."
mysterbee06 1 year ago
@oturner1980 1) I agree with the thrust of your two comments above, though 19th C. America still, to me, comes out more admirable for its arms-length policy (which yes, surely served self-interest as well as a now-dead idealism) than 19th c. European powers (I'll follow up w/an interesting read on that I just found that made me think of our talk here); 2) if you watch the next "Fall of Qing" vid, you'll see the American missionaries come under heavy fire.
Stay tuned for the article snippet...
mysterbee06 1 year ago 3
@oturner1980 If this were a vid about, say, the Vietnam War, America would be taking the brunt of the criticism. But this is the Opium War, and England was by far the heavy in this story. You're asking me to convict the minor accomplice and forgive the murderer, which seems a pretty silly "Anglophiliac" move. Don't be so defensive.
mysterbee06 1 year ago 7
@mysterbee06 Yeah, but compare a nation selling tea to a nation selling opium. This reminds me how Western nations inundated opium for Chinese, crack-cocaine for blacks, alcohol for Native Americans, heroine for Latinos, etc. There is this conspiracy to further weaken minority communities while turning a profit in the process.
Thedarksecret1 1 year ago 2
@mysterbee06 - Thank you very much for sharing this and your other videos on Chinese history. I would appreciate it much if you can also share the name of the song that plays at the end, as well as the artist and possible source for acquiring the music. Thank you.
BigMTBrain 1 year ago