This comment has received too many negative votesshow
A "transgender" could be a man who wants to be a woman, but still has a penis. OR a woman who wants to be a man but doesn't have a penis yet (or ever will) Regardless of what people believe about transgenders (pedophiles or NOT) I would never want my daughter or MYSELF to have to use a public restroom with someone who has a penis or a woman who is becoming a man.
BULLSHIT. This ad is purposefully, fundamentally twisting the entire existence and experiences of actual transgender people and claiming that transgender people are all pedophiles [even though most pedophiles are white, straight, cisgender (non-transgender) men]. It's also showing a self-identified guy going into the restroom, which again is completely inaccurate.
The people behind this campaign should be ASHAMED of themselves! We need to protect the LGBT community in Kalamazoo.
This is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to hurt a woman in a restroom, they would go in anyway. The man in this video is clearly not a transgendered man, just some creepy guy. Why can't we all accept people for who they are and give them the same rights as heterosexuals do. I'm from NY, but I urge the residents of Kalamazoo to vote yes!!!
Love is always stronger than hate. Not always easier, but stronger more powerful. Kalamazoo has alot of love, for all kinds of people, let us do as Christ has taught us and love our neighbors. Vote YES on 1856 so that we might all feel the love.
Have a good night Kalamazoo and remember to Vote YES! Even Coor's brewing company stopped their screening of homosexuals via polygraph because of the great effort of gay men and women across the country in their effort to end discrimination. Hate is on the wane, VOTE YES!!
whew, I turn my back for a day and it gets ugly. Well I guess we all better just vote YES on prop 1856. That would be the vote against discrimination. Your neighbors will thank you. GO KALAMAZOO!
Jesus is sitting in heaven tonight watching this garbage and puking his guts out while you sit at home proud of yourself for having slandered millions of innocent people with your lies. You should be ashamed, but I fear that you don't have the capacity.
Amazing how people can miss that fact that Public Facilities are Rest Rooms, Locker Rooms and Changing Rooms. No, they don't have to build any new ones. We have to make do with what is there. I didn't write the law. It doesn't legalize any criminal activities. It does legalize the man entering the restroom if he perceives himself to be a woman Ordinance language: "To make a decision in whole or in part based on someones actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity" Vote NO
Where is the new video where men are victimized by women intruding into the bathrooms? All things being fair and equal as they currently stand.
I don't know where a man would go to the bathroom since most women's bathrooms do not have urinals, and most men's restrooms do have stalls. Do you purpose that we institute bathroom monitors that will enforce genitalia segregation?
What will said monitor do in the case of men and women that were born with "ambiguous" genitalia whose parents elect to gender reassignment? It wasn't their choice to be "man" or "woman" but that of their parents, and in many cases these children feel that they don't match the sex to which they were set. Was that their own choice?
I think it would be quite sensible that each would select to use an individual cubicle where they are not exposing them selves to others but in dress or suit enter a bathroom that fits their garb, sequester them selves to a toilet, or shower stall, or locker that is either around the corner, further from others, or even secluded.
This claims that NOT DISCRIMINATING AGAINST LESBIANS AND HOMOSEXUAL MEN will lead to child rape.
Ordinance 1856, which amended Chapter 18 of the City Code of Ordinances, prohibitS discriminatory practices on basis of race, religion, nationality, sex, age, height, weight, marital status, physical or mental disability, family status, sexual orientation or gender identity in housing.
Ok I have seen a lot of really stupid campaign adds but this one takes the cake. I love the lingering that our bearded friend does just before going into the bathroom. Now that is directing!
Are you fucking kidding me with this? This is even more asenine that that stupid Dr. Stark saying it's going to cause all the men in Kalamazoo to rush to the women's room. Complete bullshit by the rightwing crazies that can't tell the truth because they know they're wrong. Disgusting.
I hope you all know that she is not a MD. She has a doctorates in Philosophy. She does have medical training as a nurse. But when they say doctor and they have her in the white coat I guess they are just trying to keep things simple.
So a vote against fairness and decency in housing and accommodations will keep the criminal from sneaking into the woman's bathroom to change the film in his camera where he has been filming ladies and little girls using the bathroom?
What a hateful and disgusting ad! No sense of decency or shame from the side spreading hysterical fear and hate, but what should we expect?
This video is laughable. Look at all of the comments posted here. How many are commenting for voting no to 1856? Where are all of those that are behind this video supporting the no vote?
It just goes to show you that they are maybe seeing the light of how stupid this video is.
I'm a life-long resident of Kalamazoo and a heterosexual.
If you want to complain about equal rights, look what our forefathers did to the Native Americans, they're still getting it stuck to them!
All right everybody, I will agree that since I don't agree with you, I am a bigot.
I would also say that intollerance runs both way. The research I examined on the subject indicates that they are still out as to the causes but that no genetic link has been found. I am sorry that this disturbs you so much. Yes is is shocking. Yes in some states a man is legally a woman. Until recently in Indiana, the value of PI was 3. The concept of PI was too abstract so the legislature changed it.
Kinkood has an interesting approach. I define the term, I apply the definition to you, you match. Surprise, and then QED, which usually follows a line of logical reasoning, not workplay. Much less objective than my desire for something other than a perception to define a legal class.
I'm 'heterophobic' because I don't discriminate against people. Hmmm... There's something wrong when not hating someone automatically means I hate another. And another thing, I have NEVER seen 'heterophobia' used in any context other than a person attempting to defend their bigotry and hatred. And surprise, you're doing the same.
But I'm done dealing with you. You'll wallow in your ignorance thinking "Woe is me, the trannies hate me for hating them. Who's the TRUE hateful bigot here?".
I think the biggest issue here is that women feel that they are going to lose their protective status. If you look at the video it is a creepy man entering the woman's bathroom. I am still waiting for a video where a woman is entering the men's bathroom. Because that is to have the exact same effect. And if this was about morals then how is it justified that anyone can judge on a religious context. When was the last time you cooked with one pan for meat another for veggies,...
If we are all sinners is it ok for you to cast the first stone at queers? That has been such a popular past time for thousands of years... or there is gay roof pushing, or homo wall falling, or the good old beat the tar out of them and stick them in a shack.
Is it the homophobia that compels you to hate? Or is it the beam that is stuck in your eye that makes you so blind? (P.S. I have read the bible cover to cover, and I used to drive 3 hours just to go to church)
Too many to answer directly. For all of you, I can only conclude that this is effective if it is upsetting you. In the face of lies about what the ordinance can do, we dramatically present the fact that should the ordinance become law, a male in transition can use either bathroom. This can harm children and women but their rights are ignored for the "greater good". I believe that the greater good is the protection of the safe environment currently enjoyed by women and children.
Ah Ok, so an honest transsexual in transition is going to take advantage and rape women and children?
The problem with the video is that it implies that the ordinance legalizes rape. This is the impression that the average Joe Blow watching it is going to get, and the video is designed to that end. It's going to get the average Joe Blow to hate transsexuals and make him think that they are degenerates who are after his wife and children.
I guess I am it you say so. Never heard that one. I don't say anything about the person being a homosexual. I am saying that a straight person can say that they are a transexual and go into the bathroom and no one can complain. This is true as the law is written.
I also say that women have a right to expect their privacy. The law is not needed, is discriminatory and invades the privacy of others.
Saying that a trans person is not truly the gender they identify as is a definition of transphboia. You are saying that trans women should not be allowed to use the women's restroom because "women have a right to expect their privacy" QED you are a transphobic bigot.
And I thought it had to do with biology and the way we were made not how we decided we were. Basic different view on things but, given that you don't feel that the genetic woman has some rights, I would say that you too meet the definition of a bigot. You place the rights of a behavioral trans over the rights of one born that way. (The studies, science not religion, don't back up born that way.) That should heat things up a bit.
Oops, you're wrong again and trying to defend bigotry. Science has shown that transgendered individuals have the same brain make up as their identified gender.
And how is protecting the rights of a minority bigotry? Oh wait, it's not. You just hate minorities and want to pretend you're not a bad person. Too bad. You are.
So is it you don't realize the danger of forcing women to go into the mens room or that you don't care what happens to them because "Ew, trannies are gross"?
I do indeed care and anyone who harms them physically regardless of what happens on Tuesday's election should be prosecuted. There are laws against assult.
I am amazed that you are able to determine what is in my heart and my motives. Are you a heteraphobic bigot?
Oh poor little oppressed heterosexual. WHO WILL THINK OF THE POOR RICH WHITE MEN?!?!
There's laws against rape and such, but that doesn't stop you from implying that unfairly discriminating against a minority will somehow save women from it.
Not even that a transsexual will do it, but hat someone will claim to be transsexual after doing it. And you'll claim that of course they were because you hate them trannies and you don't care how you slander them.
This is what MIDI doesn't understand. Transsexuals have to do a year of real life experience before they can get the surgery. Sometimes, when out in public, they may have to use the bathroom, and there may be no unisex bathrooms. Does MIDI just expect that a male-to-female who is going through that and is presenting as a female to just go to the men's room and hike up her skirt?
Unfortunately, your view of biology is a little bit vapid and behind the times. Go on the Internet and search "Zoe Brain" and look at the research that person has compiled. Transsexualism runs deeper biologically than just someone's fancy.
New Jersey has a restroom law; if you appear to be a women, no hassle. The film depicts a 'straight' person, not a transsexual. And would have caused an alarm.
It really is kind of funny how desperate these hate mongers are. They have no legitimate way to fight this ordinance so they spread lies. Forgive them father for they no not what they do.
I moved away from Kalamazoo 2 years ago to the East Coast. I like to keep up on events in my hometown because I'm proud of where I come from. Sadly, it's hard to be proud when ads like this are aired. How small minded it makes the Midwest look. I sincerely hope that loving, accepting people turn out in droves to support equality for all people and that those who are so consumed by hate someday overcome the debilitating grip of fear.
I find it difficult to believe that the city attorney would suggest that the ordinance would in any way protect a person who commits such a crime from being prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
You accuse me of confusing the issue. The only point of the video is to dramatize what the law makes illegal. People who wear ball caps and don't shave could be offended that you are suggesting that he will rape the child. The point is, his entering the rest room is legal if he says he is a woman. Obviously this is a sensitive issue but the original ordinance had an exemption for bathrooms and the commission took it out. I didn't write the law. The commission did and it is a bad one.
Will you please replace this video with a movie of a young boy entering the men's restroom and then being followed by a woman?
She doesn't need to wear glasses and she doesn't have to look around with a sense of guilt, nor does she not have to shave or wax, she can even wear a cross.
According to you this will have the same effect as the one that you post.
Is the issue less about who uses the bathroom and more about what they do there. If a person who was born with a penis, but has always understood herself to be a woman and has taken step toward a change goes into a women's room, goes into a stall, locks it, does her business, washes her hands and leaves, why does that present a problem. If someone is attacked or harassed in the bathroom, that is illegal regardless of the perpetrator's gender identity or biological gender.
I want apologize to the local2458. I meant to reply and hit remove. Here is his comment.
Note, I don't agree.
The good thing about this ad -- and it is the ONLY good thing -- is that we can share it with folks all around the country to show what kinds of things the bigots are using in 2009. Make no mistake, their fear and ignorance belies a desperation that it's not 1950. As a straight married man with a son and daughter I am much more afraid of the bigots than their fear-mongering ads.
I accept that you are enlightened. Living in the dark ages I still think there is a right and a wrong and don't think anyone's children should have the possibility of someone with different body parts in their bathroom. I personally don't think this is bigotted. But then, I haven't resorted to name calling of anyone. Who doesn't tolerate whom?
Everyone can read the ordinance and can say anything they want. The bottom line is that the city attorney was quoted as saying the a transexual genetic man can choose either bathroom.
The next step is, who is defined in this way? Well, the perception of the individual is the determinant. This means that the person in the video could use the woman's bathroom. That is the entire point of the video. What is in the video would be LEGAL should the ordinance be passed. (I also repeat)
Absolutely true. Rapists that prey on children will not be aware of or care about some city ordinance. They will rape regardless. This video implies that transgender people are actively looking to harm others and it could not be further from the truth.
That rapists will prey regardless is a point the makers of this video want you to forget for them. They want to give the impression that the City Council is legalizing rape.
And this is from the same people that say correctly that banning guns from parks does not mean illegal guns won't make their way in. How they forget this when it comes to the bathroom issue is beyond me. I think they are just trying to increase hatred and whip up a mob to vote them all into office.
Most women with whom I have discussed the, don't even mention the prospect of rape, you and others brought that up to, in my opinion, cloud the issue. They don't like the idea that a space that has up to now been safe, is now not just for women. This is a real issue and as to "whipping up a mob" who are we putting into office? This is about the ordinance.
On the other side, you are trying to convince the public that the need to use a particular bathroom negates the rights of others.
I'm not talking about women you've discussed this with. I'm talking about what the video is showing.
Because as we all know the man in the video is just going in to do his business, wash his hands and get out. [/sarc] That's why he looks both ways before going in, that's why he's wearing sunglasses, that's why he's wearing a baseball cap, that's why he goes in right after the little girl, etc.
You're trying to deny the video is saying something that it's practically screaming!
I will be so grateful on Wednesday when Kalamazpp has an anti-discrimination ordinance and people I don't even know can stop debating the validity of my existence in this city that I love.
I am very relieved that this video and the concept it promotes is actually being condemmed. This means that we probably are bothering the people in favor of the ordinance and that we are most probably right in the presentation. I could say that I don't hate but have concern for the people who CHOOSE a livestyle but most of the contributors won't believe that. Like the first comment from AngieHoweWillard said, get the facts before you vote. Doing so will lead you to a NO vote.
If this is all they could come up with, they're going to lose. It's pathetic what desperate people will do to hold onto their ignorance. The world has ALREADY CHANGED people!
No, it isn't all we could come up with. The facts of reverse discrimination are often discussed.
On the other hand, the change you claim has happened has been reversed by the people when given clear facts. The bottom line is that giving preference to people based on their behavior is wrong. Especially when it ultimately attempts to control the what people believe.
LOL! The first gay marriage in the U.S.A. took place in Texas! Bigots tried to show how smart they were by stating in law it maters what sex a person was born as not the one they are at the time of the marriage. Come to find out it is possible for someone to be born with male parts but have the spirit of a lesbian! Very shallow indeed! Great work on this video! Thanx for being real about the fact most child molesters are str8 white men! Quick had all children from str8 white men!
This is disgusting. I can't believe a responsible televison station would air such an 'ad'. This is about the lowest I've seen anti-gay politics stoop to. Christ would weep.
Be very careful with that Christ weep stamen! The only time I remember reading about in the bible that Christ did that was when the man he loved betrayed him! That statement can confuse bigots to a point where they get fighting mad and buy guns! LOL well more guns I should clarify that! Oh yeah but they would not shoot the str8 white man going into the bathroom. Just a gay one or a trans! Well I take that back if the str8 white man said he did not hate gays they might shoot him.
would your video get the same reaction if you had man enter a men's restroom first and then he was followed by curvey, made up blond with a mini skirt and high heels? I think not. You needed to USE some one's kid to show misleading propoganda to legalize your hatred for gays. SO again, if it were a woman going in to a man's bathroom is it just as wrong, or is it ok so they do not have to wait in a long line?
It is interesting that in the video, there is no mention of the sexual orientation of the man entering the bathroom. Discusting, yes it is. Reality is that the law, as it is written, can be used by any man who is willing to say he is a woman to enter a bathroom.
This is law, not hate and I for one, don't wan't a man in the bathroom with woman.
So why is the second person in the video wearing a hat, sun glasses and has to look around as if it were to make sure that they were not noticed? Once the wheat is removed from the chaff we can see that this is a video to intimidate, letting once trusted members of the community weave their disillusioned self-righteous views and then ask for indemnity because that is "just how they believe" things ought be. Yet ridicule "those" sinners that are less than they are ask to be treated as humans.
The point you are missing is that we agree that the person is not likely to be a homosexual. The law doesn't have any objective criteria to distinguish a male from a trans-gender. The first stage, according to the American Psychiatic Association, is the realization that you are a woman. At this point, a man, dressed just like the one in the video, can go into either bathroom. Had we wanted to be deceptive, we would have had an obvious guy in a dress entering the restroom.
if the second person that walked into the restroom been wearing a suit and a tie, maybe in their 50's and had well kept hair would the video have the same effect.
Had the video depicted a drag queen that was wearing a dress and wig and appeared as a normal woman would the video have the same effect.
Had the video have a woman in jeans and a sweat shirt wearing a cap, wearing glasses and looked around to see if she were being watched would the video have the same effect?
had the video have a post op. male to female women dressed as a woman enter the restroom would the video still have the same effect?
The video was not filmed to directly talk about how gay men and women should not have the same protections of house and work as is the origin of the ordinance but rather to misguide people into thinking that an ordinace that would protect gays would mean that child molestation would increase. as you have stated earlier just being gay doesn't mean molester
If your children were gay would you submit them to EST? would you have them castrated? would you ship them ff to one of those clinics where you would get them "cured"? those are things that they once said were the proper treatment for the queers.
I don't commit crimes, unless they have changed the laws in texas again. And even interacial marriage was illegal in some states until maybe twenty to thirty years ago (you will have to site me on this). The times are changing.
The video makes people think. It got your attention. Some, like StarKyKz think it is preferencial for the majority of people to stay home, or to find a single use restroom, in order that a minority could use any bathroom they want. I would say, rather, that perhaps the minority could choose to go to a unisex bathroom. That is posible now, without the ordinance.
The ordinance does allow a man, regardless of cloths who says he is a woman to use the woman's bathroom. That, is wrong.
No more jeans, no more shirts no more sweatshirts ladies you are not dressed as women! Bring out your bonnets and your hoop skirts you are violating dress code
Since the discussion is now on the general issue and not on the content of the video, I would content that people should be able to think anything they like. I won't judge them. On the other hand, laws like this are used to punish people for their thoughts. To the best of my knowlege, I don't hate anyone because they are homosexual. I don't approve of their actions and I certainly won't affirm the lifestyle as valid. It is still wrong to put a man into a woman's public facility.
Is it wrong to let women in to men's facilities? What about parents with children? Why are you showing this video if it is for the sake of privacy when one uses the bathroom they can find single user restrooms, or they can stay at home. If you don't like city water you can get a water conditioner or drink bottle water.
Face this reality. The entire issue for the people who are against this ordinance, is protecting the right to hate homosexuals. If this passes, they will be forced to tolerate this "abomination". This is not about protecting children. Unless of course they think that by not allowing homosexuals to live or work in this community, their kids might not get any "gay" ideas. Its about hate. Try loving. Its a lot more fun.
I appreciate that most people have kept this to a discussion not a name calling session.
The provisions for protecting children do not protect them from trama. The realization that a man might enter the room with them is disturbing to most young people (and adults) to whom I have talked. Unisex bathrooms require that the owner of the building make modifications to their infrastructure. How do you deal with large communal bathrooms in parks and other public locations.
YOU WILL NEVER PROTECT THEM FROM TRAMA! FEAR IS JUST ROUND THE CORNER! For many restaurants and gas stations the only difference is a placard. At sports arenas many straight women have a tendency to enter the MEN'S restrooms because they do not want to wait. And if it "Communal" then it is "Communal." I would like to know what you think about housing discrimination, employment discrimination? Is being gay a NIMBY or are we to be subjected to a third or fourth class in the country?
lola, all it does is afford gay folk the same rights as straight folk. Just like black folk get the same rights as white folk, or Christians get the same rights as Jews. Its not special, just fair.
I am against any flavor of genetically determined male in the woman's bathroom. I am not actually concerned with his outfit. Regarding the man in the video, the point isn't what he is planning to do. He, a man, is entering a women's restroom. If he has determined that he is a woman, the ordinance legalizes his entry. That is not speculation. It is the interpretation given by the city's attorney.
I respect that opinion to the extent that I think that some bathrooms are indeed segregated for a reason. However, this video infers that children will be more at risk if this ordinance passes, which I completely fail to understand. There is nothing to stop any gendered adult from going into any bathroom anywhere in the world and do something terrible to anybody beyond the immediate repercussions following.
There are specific passages in Ord 1856 that protect children. I ask that anyone and everyone please read the ordinance and make rational decisions about what the legislation actually states instead of others try to fear us into believing.
That is NOT what the City of Kalamazoo made legal! What you show there is a child molester, not what would happen if the ordinance was passed. Your group is making a weak attempt on working on people's fears with the fliers on my door which is not what would happen if this was passed.
Just to let you know, I'm heterosexual but I also believe in equal rights for everyone. QUIT the fear mongering!!!! Think about what this group is trying to make you believe and use your own common sense.
On the face of things, it does just what you have indicated. In other locations where similar or exactly the same language has been adopted, side effects like this take place. Trans-gender starts when the man decides he is a woman. The city attorney was quoted as saying the at that point the person can decide to choose either bathroom. This is a fact. Is this a dramatization? Yes. It is legal under the proposed ordinance, YES.
The ordinance makes it illegal to fire someone from their job, refuse them public accomodations, or evict them from housing because of they are gay lesbian or transgender. That is all it does.
The man in the video is not transgender, he's not a gay man, he is a creepy straight guy. This is the equivalent of pointing at all gay and transgender people and saying, "They want to hurt your children, you should vote against protecting their rights!". It's appalling.
Jill, Unfortunately, the constitution is not a valid place to go. At this juncture in our nation's history, the courts often neglect to take it into account. Currently, the owner of a business can asks the person not to use the women's facilities. Once the law is in place, as the city attorney was quoted, they can use either bathroom. The penalties to someone who disagrees are serious.
Or that business can just have two unisex bathrooms. Instead of segregated bathrooms. The US used to have segregated water fountains but now people (well most of us) have a better sense of human decency and no longer force one group of people to use one while a select group gets to use another.
Laws concerning the usage of restrooms are decided by the State of Michigan. This ordinance will not change any of the existing laws in Kalamazoo, it only covers housing, employment, and public accommodation. This argument is nil, read the state laws, and the U.S. constitution.
This ordinance is ridiculous. If you're born a man, be a man. And if a woman, the same. Why do homosexual and transgender people deserve "special" rights. They have the same rights afforded to every other citizen. I swear this world is running ragged.
I am a gay male, and I would like to just point out a few things wrong with your statement here. NO, we do NOT have the same rights afforded every other citizen. We are constantly shun down, or cast out because of who we are. As a gay male, I could be denied the right to visit my partner in the hospital, I cannot get benefits for him from my employer (I work for a school). If I was named a beneficiary on his policy, his family could take everything he left for me no matter what. Is that FAIR? NO
So you're telling me that, if I decide to become a business owner, I should have to hire a man who decides to wear a skirt to work everyday? The government doesn't even want homosexuals in their army, so who are they to tell citizens how to run their businesses?
And for the rest what commit suicide. The social pressure from hatred drives many of our youth and other note worthy people to kill them selves. I think that if it would save lives, laws that would prevent this hatred as a good, a moral, and a christian thing to do.
That is not what I said. But I am done with this debate. I feel how I feel and that will not change, as do you. Vote how you're going to vote and I will do the same.
While your opinion is that this is not legalized by the ordinance, the City Attorney, Robinson, is quoted in the Kalamazoo Gazette as saying that a transgendered individual would be allowed to use either bathroom.
Wouldn't you expect that the statement of the city's own attorney holds more weight than AngieHowseWillard's
At certain points in a transgendered person's transition from female to male or vice versa, ze might feel certain degrees of self or gender-hate due to their difficult position, which may lead to feeling incredibly uncomfortable or out-of-place in certain public places, such as a ladies' or men's restroom. It would unnerve you to be in the bathroom of an opposite gender than your own, right?
In regards to another point you've made: I'm not exactly sure what's so wrong with a man wearing a skirt, besides the fact that it's not exactly socially accepted in American society. And if we banned men with skirts, well then that's just racism against the Scots.
Sorry, not to a point you made -- it was lolamarya that stated her opposition to men in skirts. My bad. My point still stands tho, and my understanding is that you don't HAVE to hire ANYBODY when you own a business. lol
Saying that "the constitution is not a valid place to go" is just fucking bullshit too, I'm sorry. If the constitution is such bullshit, then why bother trying to AMEND the constitution with such things like a constitutional AMENDMENT to ban same-sex marriage? I mean, the courts will just "neglect to take it into account" and grant us all fag-marriages anyway, right?
This is awful!! THANK GOODNESS our city commission never has and never will make anything like that legal. When the ordinance passes, it still WILL NOT BE LEGAL.
Get the facts before you vote. The ordinance will NOT make it illegal to live out our principles, or allow men into women's public restrooms,, it will only protect all citizens of Kalamazoo from discrimination and injustice. I don't know anyone whose principles are violated by protecting human dignity!
*face palm*
HalfWereHaiti 11 months ago
Riiiiight. Cause most child molesters were waiting for a law. -_-
What utter foolishness.
coffeekoneko 1 year ago 3
This is flat-out bullshit.
-_-
AirwaveXReverie 1 year ago 2
Haha! People saw through your misleading video and voted yes.
Most cross-dressers are heterosexual and use the restroom that they're suposed to and usually don't go out in public dressed as the opposite sex.
Does this mean that because my wife dresses in T-shirts and jeans that she's a cross-dresser?
Floatsfast 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A "transgender" could be a man who wants to be a woman, but still has a penis. OR a woman who wants to be a man but doesn't have a penis yet (or ever will) Regardless of what people believe about transgenders (pedophiles or NOT) I would never want my daughter or MYSELF to have to use a public restroom with someone who has a penis or a woman who is becoming a man.
ShipperChick 2 years ago
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ShipperChick 2 years ago
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ShipperChick 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
continued from above -
While I agree that the video in question is deceptive in nature, its message is valid.
Basically, Parents need to be VIGILANT and not let their children use public restroooms ALONE!
ShipperChick 2 years ago
Your bigotry knows no bounds. How can you hate in the name of Christ?
gksnow2700 2 years ago 2
It's illegal right now for a man to use a woman's bathroom but if this passes, it's anything goes.
openroad88 2 years ago
BULLSHIT. This ad is purposefully, fundamentally twisting the entire existence and experiences of actual transgender people and claiming that transgender people are all pedophiles [even though most pedophiles are white, straight, cisgender (non-transgender) men]. It's also showing a self-identified guy going into the restroom, which again is completely inaccurate.
The people behind this campaign should be ASHAMED of themselves! We need to protect the LGBT community in Kalamazoo.
evolveordissolve 2 years ago 9
One word: LIAR.
sappha58 2 years ago 2
LIAR. The ordinance is a housing discrimination ordinance. nothing more.
WILCOsurgtech 2 years ago
i like how you guys portray this guy as some kind of creepy child molestor, when transgendered people are ANYTHING but.
look, if i have to share bathrooms with you bigoted narrow minded racist morons, you can share a bathroom with a t-girl.
vividimaginer 2 years ago 3
This is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to hurt a woman in a restroom, they would go in anyway. The man in this video is clearly not a transgendered man, just some creepy guy. Why can't we all accept people for who they are and give them the same rights as heterosexuals do. I'm from NY, but I urge the residents of Kalamazoo to vote yes!!!
karoosie 2 years ago 5
Love is always stronger than hate. Not always easier, but stronger more powerful. Kalamazoo has alot of love, for all kinds of people, let us do as Christ has taught us and love our neighbors. Vote YES on 1856 so that we might all feel the love.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 3
Have a good night Kalamazoo and remember to Vote YES! Even Coor's brewing company stopped their screening of homosexuals via polygraph because of the great effort of gay men and women across the country in their effort to end discrimination. Hate is on the wane, VOTE YES!!
StarkyKz 2 years ago
it appears that love shall conquer all, I know you are a lover deep down, come love our neighbors. I will help you out, just VOTE YES on 1856.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 2
whew, I turn my back for a day and it gets ugly. Well I guess we all better just vote YES on prop 1856. That would be the vote against discrimination. Your neighbors will thank you. GO KALAMAZOO!
GregPeckory 2 years ago 5
It was fairly nice to have discussions during the first few days. I always have to follow your Yes up with a NO.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Jesus is sitting in heaven tonight watching this garbage and puking his guts out while you sit at home proud of yourself for having slandered millions of innocent people with your lies. You should be ashamed, but I fear that you don't have the capacity.
2Dawgz 2 years ago 4
Amazing how people can miss that fact that Public Facilities are Rest Rooms, Locker Rooms and Changing Rooms. No, they don't have to build any new ones. We have to make do with what is there. I didn't write the law. It doesn't legalize any criminal activities. It does legalize the man entering the restroom if he perceives himself to be a woman Ordinance language: "To make a decision in whole or in part based on someones actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity" Vote NO
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Where is the new video where men are victimized by women intruding into the bathrooms? All things being fair and equal as they currently stand.
I don't know where a man would go to the bathroom since most women's bathrooms do not have urinals, and most men's restrooms do have stalls. Do you purpose that we institute bathroom monitors that will enforce genitalia segregation?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
What will said monitor do in the case of men and women that were born with "ambiguous" genitalia whose parents elect to gender reassignment? It wasn't their choice to be "man" or "woman" but that of their parents, and in many cases these children feel that they don't match the sex to which they were set. Was that their own choice?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
I think it would be quite sensible that each would select to use an individual cubicle where they are not exposing them selves to others but in dress or suit enter a bathroom that fits their garb, sequester them selves to a toilet, or shower stall, or locker that is either around the corner, further from others, or even secluded.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
This claims that NOT DISCRIMINATING AGAINST LESBIANS AND HOMOSEXUAL MEN will lead to child rape.
Ordinance 1856, which amended Chapter 18 of the City Code of Ordinances, prohibitS discriminatory practices on basis of race, religion, nationality, sex, age, height, weight, marital status, physical or mental disability, family status, sexual orientation or gender identity in housing.
BAG THE VIDEO PLEASE!
notonurlife 2 years ago
Christianity is truly garbage.
2Dawgz 2 years ago
Ok I have seen a lot of really stupid campaign adds but this one takes the cake. I love the lingering that our bearded friend does just before going into the bathroom. Now that is directing!
Stashbib 2 years ago
Are you fucking kidding me with this? This is even more asenine that that stupid Dr. Stark saying it's going to cause all the men in Kalamazoo to rush to the women's room. Complete bullshit by the rightwing crazies that can't tell the truth because they know they're wrong. Disgusting.
jongalbreath 2 years ago 2
I hope you all know that she is not a MD. She has a doctorates in Philosophy. She does have medical training as a nurse. But when they say doctor and they have her in the white coat I guess they are just trying to keep things simple.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Oh! I get it...
So a vote against fairness and decency in housing and accommodations will keep the criminal from sneaking into the woman's bathroom to change the film in his camera where he has been filming ladies and little girls using the bathroom?
What a hateful and disgusting ad! No sense of decency or shame from the side spreading hysterical fear and hate, but what should we expect?
cowboyneok 2 years ago 3
Repulsive and idiotic. I hope whoever came up with this is sterile.
JJB7721076 2 years ago 5
This video is laughable. Look at all of the comments posted here. How many are commenting for voting no to 1856? Where are all of those that are behind this video supporting the no vote?
It just goes to show you that they are maybe seeing the light of how stupid this video is.
I'm a life-long resident of Kalamazoo and a heterosexual.
If you want to complain about equal rights, look what our forefathers did to the Native Americans, they're still getting it stuck to them!
Floatsfast 2 years ago 2
More lies to promote panic and fear.
stpbrakefluid 2 years ago 5
All right everybody, I will agree that since I don't agree with you, I am a bigot.
I would also say that intollerance runs both way. The research I examined on the subject indicates that they are still out as to the causes but that no genetic link has been found. I am sorry that this disturbs you so much. Yes is is shocking. Yes in some states a man is legally a woman. Until recently in Indiana, the value of PI was 3. The concept of PI was too abstract so the legislature changed it.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
You are transphobic by definition. That's what makes you a bigot.
kinkood 2 years ago 3
There is more to biological causation than genetics.
beneficii 2 years ago 2
Kinkood has an interesting approach. I define the term, I apply the definition to you, you match. Surprise, and then QED, which usually follows a line of logical reasoning, not workplay. Much less objective than my desire for something other than a perception to define a legal class.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
I'm 'heterophobic' because I don't discriminate against people. Hmmm... There's something wrong when not hating someone automatically means I hate another. And another thing, I have NEVER seen 'heterophobia' used in any context other than a person attempting to defend their bigotry and hatred. And surprise, you're doing the same.
But I'm done dealing with you. You'll wallow in your ignorance thinking "Woe is me, the trannies hate me for hating them. Who's the TRUE hateful bigot here?".
kinkood 2 years ago
I think the biggest issue here is that women feel that they are going to lose their protective status. If you look at the video it is a creepy man entering the woman's bathroom. I am still waiting for a video where a woman is entering the men's bathroom. Because that is to have the exact same effect. And if this was about morals then how is it justified that anyone can judge on a religious context. When was the last time you cooked with one pan for meat another for veggies,...
StarkyKz 2 years ago
and not mix fabrics?
If we are all sinners is it ok for you to cast the first stone at queers? That has been such a popular past time for thousands of years... or there is gay roof pushing, or homo wall falling, or the good old beat the tar out of them and stick them in a shack.
Is it the homophobia that compels you to hate? Or is it the beam that is stuck in your eye that makes you so blind? (P.S. I have read the bible cover to cover, and I used to drive 3 hours just to go to church)
StarkyKz 2 years ago 2
is this a real ad. I can't believe it
Melldandy 2 years ago
Too many to answer directly. For all of you, I can only conclude that this is effective if it is upsetting you. In the face of lies about what the ordinance can do, we dramatically present the fact that should the ordinance become law, a male in transition can use either bathroom. This can harm children and women but their rights are ignored for the "greater good". I believe that the greater good is the protection of the safe environment currently enjoyed by women and children.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Ah Ok, so an honest transsexual in transition is going to take advantage and rape women and children?
The problem with the video is that it implies that the ordinance legalizes rape. This is the impression that the average Joe Blow watching it is going to get, and the video is designed to that end. It's going to get the average Joe Blow to hate transsexuals and make him think that they are degenerates who are after his wife and children.
It's a hate piece.
beneficii 2 years ago 6
QED, you are a transphobic bigot..
kinkood 2 years ago
I guess I am it you say so. Never heard that one. I don't say anything about the person being a homosexual. I am saying that a straight person can say that they are a transexual and go into the bathroom and no one can complain. This is true as the law is written.
I also say that women have a right to expect their privacy. The law is not needed, is discriminatory and invades the privacy of others.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Saying that a trans person is not truly the gender they identify as is a definition of transphboia. You are saying that trans women should not be allowed to use the women's restroom because "women have a right to expect their privacy" QED you are a transphobic bigot.
kinkood 2 years ago
And I thought it had to do with biology and the way we were made not how we decided we were. Basic different view on things but, given that you don't feel that the genetic woman has some rights, I would say that you too meet the definition of a bigot. You place the rights of a behavioral trans over the rights of one born that way. (The studies, science not religion, don't back up born that way.) That should heat things up a bit.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Oops, you're wrong again and trying to defend bigotry. Science has shown that transgendered individuals have the same brain make up as their identified gender.
And how is protecting the rights of a minority bigotry? Oh wait, it's not. You just hate minorities and want to pretend you're not a bad person. Too bad. You are.
kinkood 2 years ago
So is it you don't realize the danger of forcing women to go into the mens room or that you don't care what happens to them because "Ew, trannies are gross"?
kinkood 2 years ago
I do indeed care and anyone who harms them physically regardless of what happens on Tuesday's election should be prosecuted. There are laws against assult.
I am amazed that you are able to determine what is in my heart and my motives. Are you a heteraphobic bigot?
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Oh poor little oppressed heterosexual. WHO WILL THINK OF THE POOR RICH WHITE MEN?!?!
There's laws against rape and such, but that doesn't stop you from implying that unfairly discriminating against a minority will somehow save women from it.
kinkood 2 years ago 2
And you're basing that they shouldn't be allowed in there on a POSSIBILITY when their assault and murder is a GUARANTEE.
kinkood 2 years ago
Not even that a transsexual will do it, but hat someone will claim to be transsexual after doing it. And you'll claim that of course they were because you hate them trannies and you don't care how you slander them.
kinkood 2 years ago
This is what MIDI doesn't understand. Transsexuals have to do a year of real life experience before they can get the surgery. Sometimes, when out in public, they may have to use the bathroom, and there may be no unisex bathrooms. Does MIDI just expect that a male-to-female who is going through that and is presenting as a female to just go to the men's room and hike up her skirt?
beneficii 2 years ago 2
Unfortunately, your view of biology is a little bit vapid and behind the times. Go on the Internet and search "Zoe Brain" and look at the research that person has compiled. Transsexualism runs deeper biologically than just someone's fancy.
beneficii 2 years ago 2
Outright lies and unfounded fear mongering.
hackerblaster 2 years ago 4
Oops, you're a bigot and getting upset when people call you out on it.
kinkood 2 years ago 4
I agree. A trans-women is just that, a women.
New Jersey has a restroom law; if you appear to be a women, no hassle. The film depicts a 'straight' person, not a transsexual. And would have caused an alarm.
It has worked well.
SheilaS100 2 years ago
The sky is falling, the sky is falling! I love fear-mongering, it's the sign of desperation.
MrDalespy 2 years ago 4
It really is kind of funny how desperate these hate mongers are. They have no legitimate way to fight this ordinance so they spread lies. Forgive them father for they no not what they do.
pride21jim 2 years ago 6
I moved away from Kalamazoo 2 years ago to the East Coast. I like to keep up on events in my hometown because I'm proud of where I come from. Sadly, it's hard to be proud when ads like this are aired. How small minded it makes the Midwest look. I sincerely hope that loving, accepting people turn out in droves to support equality for all people and that those who are so consumed by hate someday overcome the debilitating grip of fear.
beehindmartin 2 years ago 4
you can be proud! Check out all the video's OneKalamazoo has put out. they are great.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 4
I find it difficult to believe that the city attorney would suggest that the ordinance would in any way protect a person who commits such a crime from being prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
AngieHowseWillard 2 years ago 3
You accuse me of confusing the issue. The only point of the video is to dramatize what the law makes illegal. People who wear ball caps and don't shave could be offended that you are suggesting that he will rape the child. The point is, his entering the rest room is legal if he says he is a woman. Obviously this is a sensitive issue but the original ordinance had an exemption for bathrooms and the commission took it out. I didn't write the law. The commission did and it is a bad one.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Will you please replace this video with a movie of a young boy entering the men's restroom and then being followed by a woman?
She doesn't need to wear glasses and she doesn't have to look around with a sense of guilt, nor does she not have to shave or wax, she can even wear a cross.
According to you this will have the same effect as the one that you post.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Are you busy filming the new video?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Is the issue less about who uses the bathroom and more about what they do there. If a person who was born with a penis, but has always understood herself to be a woman and has taken step toward a change goes into a women's room, goes into a stall, locks it, does her business, washes her hands and leaves, why does that present a problem. If someone is attacked or harassed in the bathroom, that is illegal regardless of the perpetrator's gender identity or biological gender.
AngieHowseWillard 2 years ago 3
yeah! I mean, guys are kind of messy in the bathroom, but besides that...
GregPeckory 2 years ago
Best response I have heard all day.
cameraboi1229 2 years ago
I want apologize to the local2458. I meant to reply and hit remove. Here is his comment.
Note, I don't agree.
The good thing about this ad -- and it is the ONLY good thing -- is that we can share it with folks all around the country to show what kinds of things the bigots are using in 2009. Make no mistake, their fear and ignorance belies a desperation that it's not 1950. As a straight married man with a son and daughter I am much more afraid of the bigots than their fear-mongering ads.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
I am replying to local2458's comment:
I accept that you are enlightened. Living in the dark ages I still think there is a right and a wrong and don't think anyone's children should have the possibility of someone with different body parts in their bathroom. I personally don't think this is bigotted. But then, I haven't resorted to name calling of anyone. Who doesn't tolerate whom?
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
No I will risk repeating myself, but this video is a red herring and has nothing to do with the issue. Scare tactics. For shame.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 2
Everyone can read the ordinance and can say anything they want. The bottom line is that the city attorney was quoted as saying the a transexual genetic man can choose either bathroom.
The next step is, who is defined in this way? Well, the perception of the individual is the determinant. This means that the person in the video could use the woman's bathroom. That is the entire point of the video. What is in the video would be LEGAL should the ordinance be passed. (I also repeat)
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
The ad's despicable implication, as you well know, is that a child is going to be raped. It is ridiculous and inexcusable.
stantonz 2 years ago 5
Absolutely true. Rapists that prey on children will not be aware of or care about some city ordinance. They will rape regardless. This video implies that transgender people are actively looking to harm others and it could not be further from the truth.
cameraboi1229 2 years ago 4
That rapists will prey regardless is a point the makers of this video want you to forget for them. They want to give the impression that the City Council is legalizing rape.
And this is from the same people that say correctly that banning guns from parks does not mean illegal guns won't make their way in. How they forget this when it comes to the bathroom issue is beyond me. I think they are just trying to increase hatred and whip up a mob to vote them all into office.
beneficii 2 years ago
Most women with whom I have discussed the, don't even mention the prospect of rape, you and others brought that up to, in my opinion, cloud the issue. They don't like the idea that a space that has up to now been safe, is now not just for women. This is a real issue and as to "whipping up a mob" who are we putting into office? This is about the ordinance.
On the other side, you are trying to convince the public that the need to use a particular bathroom negates the rights of others.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
I'm not talking about women you've discussed this with. I'm talking about what the video is showing.
Because as we all know the man in the video is just going in to do his business, wash his hands and get out. [/sarc] That's why he looks both ways before going in, that's why he's wearing sunglasses, that's why he's wearing a baseball cap, that's why he goes in right after the little girl, etc.
You're trying to deny the video is saying something that it's practically screaming!
beneficii 2 years ago
I will be so grateful on Wednesday when Kalamazpp has an anti-discrimination ordinance and people I don't even know can stop debating the validity of my existence in this city that I love.
AngieHowseWillard 2 years ago 11
love you! you get a +1
StarkyKz 2 years ago
I am very relieved that this video and the concept it promotes is actually being condemmed. This means that we probably are bothering the people in favor of the ordinance and that we are most probably right in the presentation. I could say that I don't hate but have concern for the people who CHOOSE a livestyle but most of the contributors won't believe that. Like the first comment from AngieHoweWillard said, get the facts before you vote. Doing so will lead you to a NO vote.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
If this is all they could come up with, they're going to lose. It's pathetic what desperate people will do to hold onto their ignorance. The world has ALREADY CHANGED people!
mpahou 2 years ago 2
No, it isn't all we could come up with. The facts of reverse discrimination are often discussed.
On the other hand, the change you claim has happened has been reversed by the people when given clear facts. The bottom line is that giving preference to people based on their behavior is wrong. Especially when it ultimately attempts to control the what people believe.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
LOL! The first gay marriage in the U.S.A. took place in Texas! Bigots tried to show how smart they were by stating in law it maters what sex a person was born as not the one they are at the time of the marriage. Come to find out it is possible for someone to be born with male parts but have the spirit of a lesbian! Very shallow indeed! Great work on this video! Thanx for being real about the fact most child molesters are str8 white men! Quick had all children from str8 white men!
patrickintx 2 years ago 2
This is disgusting. I can't believe a responsible televison station would air such an 'ad'. This is about the lowest I've seen anti-gay politics stoop to. Christ would weep.
Toronado2008 2 years ago 2
Be very careful with that Christ weep stamen! The only time I remember reading about in the bible that Christ did that was when the man he loved betrayed him! That statement can confuse bigots to a point where they get fighting mad and buy guns! LOL well more guns I should clarify that! Oh yeah but they would not shoot the str8 white man going into the bathroom. Just a gay one or a trans! Well I take that back if the str8 white man said he did not hate gays they might shoot him.
patrickintx 2 years ago 2
HA! Actually, I think Jesus wept for Lazarus, not Judas. But when it comes to all that biblical mythology, it tends to blur.
Toronado2008 2 years ago
would your video get the same reaction if you had man enter a men's restroom first and then he was followed by curvey, made up blond with a mini skirt and high heels? I think not. You needed to USE some one's kid to show misleading propoganda to legalize your hatred for gays. SO again, if it were a woman going in to a man's bathroom is it just as wrong, or is it ok so they do not have to wait in a long line?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
It is interesting that in the video, there is no mention of the sexual orientation of the man entering the bathroom. Discusting, yes it is. Reality is that the law, as it is written, can be used by any man who is willing to say he is a woman to enter a bathroom.
This is law, not hate and I for one, don't wan't a man in the bathroom with woman.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
So why is the second person in the video wearing a hat, sun glasses and has to look around as if it were to make sure that they were not noticed? Once the wheat is removed from the chaff we can see that this is a video to intimidate, letting once trusted members of the community weave their disillusioned self-righteous views and then ask for indemnity because that is "just how they believe" things ought be. Yet ridicule "those" sinners that are less than they are ask to be treated as humans.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
The point you are missing is that we agree that the person is not likely to be a homosexual. The law doesn't have any objective criteria to distinguish a male from a trans-gender. The first stage, according to the American Psychiatic Association, is the realization that you are a woman. At this point, a man, dressed just like the one in the video, can go into either bathroom. Had we wanted to be deceptive, we would have had an obvious guy in a dress entering the restroom.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
if the second person that walked into the restroom been wearing a suit and a tie, maybe in their 50's and had well kept hair would the video have the same effect.
Had the video depicted a drag queen that was wearing a dress and wig and appeared as a normal woman would the video have the same effect.
Had the video have a woman in jeans and a sweat shirt wearing a cap, wearing glasses and looked around to see if she were being watched would the video have the same effect?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
had the video have a post op. male to female women dressed as a woman enter the restroom would the video still have the same effect?
The video was not filmed to directly talk about how gay men and women should not have the same protections of house and work as is the origin of the ordinance but rather to misguide people into thinking that an ordinace that would protect gays would mean that child molestation would increase. as you have stated earlier just being gay doesn't mean molester
StarkyKz 2 years ago
If your children were gay would you submit them to EST? would you have them castrated? would you ship them ff to one of those clinics where you would get them "cured"? those are things that they once said were the proper treatment for the queers.
I don't commit crimes, unless they have changed the laws in texas again. And even interacial marriage was illegal in some states until maybe twenty to thirty years ago (you will have to site me on this). The times are changing.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
The video makes people think. It got your attention. Some, like StarKyKz think it is preferencial for the majority of people to stay home, or to find a single use restroom, in order that a minority could use any bathroom they want. I would say, rather, that perhaps the minority could choose to go to a unisex bathroom. That is posible now, without the ordinance.
The ordinance does allow a man, regardless of cloths who says he is a woman to use the woman's bathroom. That, is wrong.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
So women need to stop wearing pants?
No more jeans, no more shirts no more sweatshirts ladies you are not dressed as women! Bring out your bonnets and your hoop skirts you are violating dress code
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Since the discussion is now on the general issue and not on the content of the video, I would content that people should be able to think anything they like. I won't judge them. On the other hand, laws like this are used to punish people for their thoughts. To the best of my knowlege, I don't hate anyone because they are homosexual. I don't approve of their actions and I certainly won't affirm the lifestyle as valid. It is still wrong to put a man into a woman's public facility.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
The video is a red herring.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 3
Is it wrong to let women in to men's facilities? What about parents with children? Why are you showing this video if it is for the sake of privacy when one uses the bathroom they can find single user restrooms, or they can stay at home. If you don't like city water you can get a water conditioner or drink bottle water.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Face this reality. The entire issue for the people who are against this ordinance, is protecting the right to hate homosexuals. If this passes, they will be forced to tolerate this "abomination". This is not about protecting children. Unless of course they think that by not allowing homosexuals to live or work in this community, their kids might not get any "gay" ideas. Its about hate. Try loving. Its a lot more fun.
GregPeckory 2 years ago 3
Several things;
I appreciate that most people have kept this to a discussion not a name calling session.
The provisions for protecting children do not protect them from trama. The realization that a man might enter the room with them is disturbing to most young people (and adults) to whom I have talked. Unisex bathrooms require that the owner of the building make modifications to their infrastructure. How do you deal with large communal bathrooms in parks and other public locations.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
YOU WILL NEVER PROTECT THEM FROM TRAMA! FEAR IS JUST ROUND THE CORNER! For many restaurants and gas stations the only difference is a placard. At sports arenas many straight women have a tendency to enter the MEN'S restrooms because they do not want to wait. And if it "Communal" then it is "Communal." I would like to know what you think about housing discrimination, employment discrimination? Is being gay a NIMBY or are we to be subjected to a third or fourth class in the country?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
lola, all it does is afford gay folk the same rights as straight folk. Just like black folk get the same rights as white folk, or Christians get the same rights as Jews. Its not special, just fair.
GregPeckory 2 years ago
I am against any flavor of genetically determined male in the woman's bathroom. I am not actually concerned with his outfit. Regarding the man in the video, the point isn't what he is planning to do. He, a man, is entering a women's restroom. If he has determined that he is a woman, the ordinance legalizes his entry. That is not speculation. It is the interpretation given by the city's attorney.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
I respect that opinion to the extent that I think that some bathrooms are indeed segregated for a reason. However, this video infers that children will be more at risk if this ordinance passes, which I completely fail to understand. There is nothing to stop any gendered adult from going into any bathroom anywhere in the world and do something terrible to anybody beyond the immediate repercussions following.
Nestalgica 2 years ago
There are specific passages in Ord 1856 that protect children. I ask that anyone and everyone please read the ordinance and make rational decisions about what the legislation actually states instead of others try to fear us into believing.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
That is NOT what the City of Kalamazoo made legal! What you show there is a child molester, not what would happen if the ordinance was passed. Your group is making a weak attempt on working on people's fears with the fliers on my door which is not what would happen if this was passed.
Just to let you know, I'm heterosexual but I also believe in equal rights for everyone. QUIT the fear mongering!!!! Think about what this group is trying to make you believe and use your own common sense.
Floatsfast 2 years ago 2
read the god damn ordinance. this is a lie and you know it
bincode4 2 years ago 2
On the face of things, it does just what you have indicated. In other locations where similar or exactly the same language has been adopted, side effects like this take place. Trans-gender starts when the man decides he is a woman. The city attorney was quoted as saying the at that point the person can decide to choose either bathroom. This is a fact. Is this a dramatization? Yes. It is legal under the proposed ordinance, YES.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
The ordinance makes it illegal to fire someone from their job, refuse them public accomodations, or evict them from housing because of they are gay lesbian or transgender. That is all it does.
The man in the video is not transgender, he's not a gay man, he is a creepy straight guy. This is the equivalent of pointing at all gay and transgender people and saying, "They want to hurt your children, you should vote against protecting their rights!". It's appalling.
AGrayson514 2 years ago 3
Jill, Unfortunately, the constitution is not a valid place to go. At this juncture in our nation's history, the courts often neglect to take it into account. Currently, the owner of a business can asks the person not to use the women's facilities. Once the law is in place, as the city attorney was quoted, they can use either bathroom. The penalties to someone who disagrees are serious.
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
Or that business can just have two unisex bathrooms. Instead of segregated bathrooms. The US used to have segregated water fountains but now people (well most of us) have a better sense of human decency and no longer force one group of people to use one while a select group gets to use another.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
Laws concerning the usage of restrooms are decided by the State of Michigan. This ordinance will not change any of the existing laws in Kalamazoo, it only covers housing, employment, and public accommodation. This argument is nil, read the state laws, and the U.S. constitution.
JillArdis 2 years ago 2
This ordinance is ridiculous. If you're born a man, be a man. And if a woman, the same. Why do homosexual and transgender people deserve "special" rights. They have the same rights afforded to every other citizen. I swear this world is running ragged.
lolamarya 2 years ago
I am a gay male, and I would like to just point out a few things wrong with your statement here. NO, we do NOT have the same rights afforded every other citizen. We are constantly shun down, or cast out because of who we are. As a gay male, I could be denied the right to visit my partner in the hospital, I cannot get benefits for him from my employer (I work for a school). If I was named a beneficiary on his policy, his family could take everything he left for me no matter what. Is that FAIR? NO
shadow1778 2 years ago 2
So you're telling me that, if I decide to become a business owner, I should have to hire a man who decides to wear a skirt to work everyday? The government doesn't even want homosexuals in their army, so who are they to tell citizens how to run their businesses?
lolamarya 2 years ago
And for the rest what commit suicide. The social pressure from hatred drives many of our youth and other note worthy people to kill them selves. I think that if it would save lives, laws that would prevent this hatred as a good, a moral, and a christian thing to do.
StarkyKz 2 years ago
The "Christian" thing would not be to allow this to pass. Whatever.
lolamarya 2 years ago
Lola, so you like the idea of teenagers killing themselves or taking drugs?
StarkyKz 2 years ago
That is not what I said. But I am done with this debate. I feel how I feel and that will not change, as do you. Vote how you're going to vote and I will do the same.
lolamarya 2 years ago
While your opinion is that this is not legalized by the ordinance, the City Attorney, Robinson, is quoted in the Kalamazoo Gazette as saying that a transgendered individual would be allowed to use either bathroom.
Wouldn't you expect that the statement of the city's own attorney holds more weight than AngieHowseWillard's
MIDiogeknees 2 years ago
At certain points in a transgendered person's transition from female to male or vice versa, ze might feel certain degrees of self or gender-hate due to their difficult position, which may lead to feeling incredibly uncomfortable or out-of-place in certain public places, such as a ladies' or men's restroom. It would unnerve you to be in the bathroom of an opposite gender than your own, right?
Nestalgica 2 years ago
In regards to another point you've made: I'm not exactly sure what's so wrong with a man wearing a skirt, besides the fact that it's not exactly socially accepted in American society. And if we banned men with skirts, well then that's just racism against the Scots.
Nestalgica 2 years ago
Sorry, not to a point you made -- it was lolamarya that stated her opposition to men in skirts. My bad. My point still stands tho, and my understanding is that you don't HAVE to hire ANYBODY when you own a business. lol
Nestalgica 2 years ago
Saying that "the constitution is not a valid place to go" is just fucking bullshit too, I'm sorry. If the constitution is such bullshit, then why bother trying to AMEND the constitution with such things like a constitutional AMENDMENT to ban same-sex marriage? I mean, the courts will just "neglect to take it into account" and grant us all fag-marriages anyway, right?
Nestalgica 2 years ago
This is awful!! THANK GOODNESS our city commission never has and never will make anything like that legal. When the ordinance passes, it still WILL NOT BE LEGAL.
Get the facts before you vote. The ordinance will NOT make it illegal to live out our principles, or allow men into women's public restrooms,, it will only protect all citizens of Kalamazoo from discrimination and injustice. I don't know anyone whose principles are violated by protecting human dignity!
AngieHowseWillard 2 years ago 4