Wendy Alexander: bring on Scottish independence referendum 2

[ScotlandsMessenger]

@tantawi1992 "Open to all" means including Canadians.

The For Freedom Forums is a political discussion forum and people come with their own political ideas to debate with others, compare approaches, win support, make contact etc.

Therefore I do not have a "group" nor group positions.

In the forums one may support or oppose "sovereigntist" ideas as you wish.

I do not know what you mean by "sovereigntist" but if you would like to explain in the For Freedom Forums you'd be welcome to.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

@tantawi1992 Canadians have the same head of state as Scots, therefore if we Scots, Canadians, Australians, English etc. would like the freedom to elect our own head of state and the additional freedoms which come with establishing a state which is held accountable and required to respect the constitutional rights of the citizen, say by establishing a Scottish republic, a Canadian republic or a Quebec republic then we all have the same enemy.

Also, the For Freedom Forums is "OPEN TO ALL"

[ScotlandsMessenger]

@tantawi1992 I tried to message you to invite you to register a username with the For Freedom Forums for robust political debate, inspired by Scots, open to all.

But all I get when clicking on "tantawi1992" is "This channel is not available." So I can't message you.

Anyway the web address is "FIGH. TK"

Please join us.

[aviomaster]

IF Kosovo can have independence than ANyone can and have to strive for independence It has never been easier.

[haszo]

If Scotland was Independent it would be as rich as Norway with all that Oil in the North Sea.

I wonder if Scotland was to become an Independent Nation would it keep the Monarchy like the Irish Free State, or get rid of it like the Irish Republic?

[ScotlandsMessenger]

haszo - It is helpful to distinguish between "Scotland" the land and "the Scots" the nation and people of Scotland.

When the difference is clear then you will see that whilst the Scots CAN become a more independent nation and a less enslaved-by-the-UK nation (by ending the UK's rule over Scotland) NO LAND can become independent, only nations can.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

haszo - Whilst "Scotland" CANNOT become independent because Scotland is a land and it is not a nation, the Scots CAN INDEED, become an independent nation but ONLY when we Scots elect the a president of a Scottish republic.

If the Queen is head of state, we Scots would be enslaved - told who our head of state was to be.

If the Scottish monarchy is there, we Scots will not be independent. That is why the SNP royalists are liars and really opposed to Scottish national independence.

[BoxingBadBoy77]

scotland will fall apart without the uk!Scotland gets supplemented by england to a large degree and without englands help its economy would be up shit creek!

[ScotlandsMessenger]

BoxingBadBoy77 - It depends on how the Scottish government runs key economic institutions such as the Scottish universities.

What weakens the Scottish economy is the Scottish universities excluding very talented people such as myself who COULD create enormous wealth for the economy if we were allowed to be heard.

Instead, brilliant inventors and industrial leaders are banned from the universities and maybe even jailed.

The SNP government allow the same mismanagement as Labour/Lib Dem.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

BoxingBadBoy77 - The problem is Scottish politicians like Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond have a mutual respect with the universities and leave them to run their own affairs.

It doesn't have to be like that. For example, in the USA, previous presidents have sent federal troops and other officers to force the way in to universities in the South which were banning black students.

People are not banned for their colour in Scottish universities but for daring to exercise academic freedom.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

BoxingBadBoy77 - The Queen would never allow the Scottish military to be used against universities with royal charters run by royalist twits so the way to get better run universities and a strong economy is via a republican revolution.

Then the Scottish President of a Scottish republic could give excellent academics like myself an armed escort into universities so then we could start building up the strength of the economy.

The SNP are paddling along shit creek unlike Scottish republicans.

[WoodlandHunter]

If you agree with independence, don't just sit here agreeing, you MUST actually go and vote yes in 2010! We need every vote, and we cannot let this opportunity go to waste. We can do it!

[ScotlandsMessenger]

WoodlandHunter - Wrong. If you agree with Scottish national independence - democratic freedom for us Scots - then you need to realise that Salmond's 2010 referendum plan is a fraud to deliver independence for the state and to continue the slavery of the Scots under the crown.

The "Right Honourable" Alex Salmond (member of the Queen's Privy Council) is a UNIONIST of the variety which supports the Union of the Crowns, albeit he wants the Scottish state under the Queen but not within the UK.

[Ormond1]

Go on the Scots. Tear up that flag and take your place amongst the nations of the world.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Ormond1 - The Scots do not need to disrespect the flag of any other nation to take our place amongst the nations of the world.

We do however need to get rid of the monarchy and have instead a Scottish republic, electing a president as head of state, in order to become a free nation which the Scottish state serves, rather than as now, an enslaved nation which the Queen's Scottish state rules.

So tear up Queen Elizabeth, Prince Charles and any royal who dares to rule us.

[Ormond1]

Well I am a republican too. Why would you have a problem with dismantling the union flag from Edinburgh Castle to be replaced by the Scottish part of the same union flag?

I would be so proud of Scotland of Independence was voted in.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Ormond1 - Changing the flag of an oppressor changes nothing.

We should not allow Queen Elizabeth to use the Saltire as a new "Butcher's Apron" (the somewhat dismissive nickname for the union flag which conveniently turns a blind eye to the fact that troops under the union flag, but not the Irish tricolour, fought and defeated the 20th Century's most bloody and evil butcher Hitler, but then the then Pope was not fighting Hitler so why should Ireland, right?).

[BillDFC]

Wendy Alexander-another labour quisling...

[ScotlandsMessenger]

BillDFC - Quisling founded the Norwegian Nationalist Party and was appointed Minister-President by the occupying Nazi forces.

So Quisling said he was a nationalist and was First Minister of Norway.

Now WHO does that remind you of?

That's right. Salmond, Scotland's Quisling, the traitor who shook the hand of the enemy Queen again in parliament yesterday, as did traitors Gray, Goldie and Scott.

Is Wendy a Scottish Labour leader who DIDN'T do this Quisling-like act of betrayal?

[gooners105]

i'm going to feel sorry for you if you become independent, who knows what Alex going to let the EU do.

[gooners105]

Scotland might not get independece,everyone who wants to be free votes for one party. The others who wants to stay vote different

parties there are more Scots who wants to stay.

If you do become free you'll get problems from the unionists.

[Seank89]

Do people not understand that if they vote independence they wont get it salmond wants to join the EU so then Scotland will be ruled by democrats from Brussels and not by there own government by people that dont speak English and dont know and dont care what Scottish people want ...in my opinion and am from edin I would stick to the Union. another thing salmond shouldnt have a seat in westminster and get paid there if he is a scottish nationalist

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Seank89 - People do not yet see through Salmond's lies. Indeed when I viewed this video and made my comments in the (more info) details, at that time, I was not fully aware of the fraudulent referendum Salmond is proposing.

Genuine national independence is not planned by Salmond and the SNP EVEN TO BE AN OPTION on their referendum ballot paper!

It has been ruled out already by the UK civil service and Salmond has agreed!

Oh Salmond would rule and enslave Scots with an iron fist OK.

[thewarden4444]

I would be happy for Scotland to attain independence of a non-military kind.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - It is going to take military action, or the threat of it, to get the Queen and family out of Scotland and keep them out.

The Windsor dynasty is not going to stop ruling Scots without a fight. So we need a Scottish republic and a good determined president to defend Scottish national independence.

The traitor to Scots Alex Salmond proposes a Scottish state - headed by Queen Elizabeth. This independent STATE would be used against the Scots to deny us NATIONAL independence.

[thewarden4444]

Furthermore, England should not allow Scottish independence because it would seriously undermine the strategic defences of this island of ours. And why do you need "independence". You make laws on England, we don't on you. Pulling the Scottish troops out of the British army would be catastrophic.

Lets at least wait until we've dealt with the EU. Join forces until after the threat to the UK has passed,and then we can fight amongst ourselves.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - What undermines the strategic defences of this island is the people being ruled by an enemy UK state hostile to our democratic rights and freedoms.

Historically, the UK allowed the Nazi threat to grow while ignoring Churchill's warnings for years and even tried to foist a Nazi-sympathiser King Edward on us.

Today, the fascist UK state broadcasts jihadi terrorist propaganda yet arrested me for carrying a union flag to commemorate the victims of 7/7 London bombs.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - Scottish national independence would strengthen the strategic defences of this island by deploying the full capabilities of the Scots instead of having able Scots enslaved or side-lined as at present.

British national independence could do even more to strengthen our island defences so the Scots should set a good example for the Britons - demanding national independence.

Obviously Salmond's plan for STATE independence enslaving the Scots would undermine us 100%.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - The record of the UK armed forces is mixed - sometimes acting as true patriotic British forces - equally loyal to Scots, English, Welsh and so on - when we fought the Nazis for example.

At other times the UK forces have fought for Queen and against a free country - such as when shooting unarmed protestors dead.

For genuine freedom fighting operations there is every reason to expect independent Scottish national forces to defend the freedom of all Britons. Be stupid not to.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - The EU whilst not really helping Britons by such as arresting the Queen and trying her for crimes against humanity and so on in the Hague, is not the threat you perceive it to be.

Armed forces of republican European nations such as France and Ireland, reinforced with USA forces could establish a strong mainland international republican army in Scotland which would be available to come to the aid of English republican forces in a national liberation war to overthrow the UK.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - The UK IS the threat. The UK makes the laws via its parliaments.

We, the people, however have no say in those laws. The UK courts are also free to disregard or twist any law they like - it is a fascist state dictatorship.

The Scots don't even make the laws in Scotland so what makes you think we make them in England?

I never said the English make the laws in Scotland - it is the UK state and its rigged (in favour of the monarchy) parliaments who make the laws.

[thewarden4444]

WITNESS: THE MODERN POLITICIAN

never answers the bloody question!

[ScotlandsMessenger]

thewarden4444 - OK then let's see you do any better.

I will make it easy for you - 2 polls about Salmond's referendum plan and you can either answer the poll questions now, or,

if you want to cast a relatively secret vote you can

* register for the For Freedom Forums and answer the polls there, or

* if you have already registered a username with bebo you can answer the polls there

The links you need for the polls are in this video's (more info)

Poll questions coming up ...

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Poll 1.

Question: What do you think about Salmond's plan for a referendum with every option FOR THE QUEEN?

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Poll 1 Options.

Answers:

a) Bad Salmond! Scots need independence not dependence on Queen Elizabeth.

b) Yes Salmond! For the union of the crowns! A Scottish kingdom in Queen Elizabeth's personal union.

c) Well I am for the United Kingdom so I don't see the need for even a rigged referendum.

d) More treason by Salmond. The Queen should be targeted for assassination now to force a republic.

e) Burn the Butcher's Apron 'n vote fir wee Eck, the SNP n' Auld Liz's butchers! Ken?

[thewarden4444]

I do not want Scotland to be independent.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Poll 2.

Question:

If Alex Salmond shat on a plate and called it "mince", would you eat it?

Poll 2 Options

Answers

a) No Salmond doesn't fool me with his Shite Referendum which is NOT a true independence referendum

b) Yes I will swallow any Shite Referendum Salmond serves up. For the Union of the Crowns and Auld Liz!

[thewarden4444]

So, if I had to answer your questions I would say, (c) then (a).

But I do not want Scottish independence to be allowed at this time, because it would rip the UK apart at a time when we need to be unified to oppose the tyrannical totalitarianism of the EU.

[scottishchap2008]

what a fckin retard, she asked for a referendem then wouldnt say when?!?!? as long as all votes are counted hopefully scotland will be independent and free from the liars and warmongers of london

[mcchillin2008]

Yeah Wendy! "We have had this controversy of independence for last 30 years" hmm exactly how long have we had our oil?????? 30 YEARS!!!!! Conclusion writes itself everyone wants scottish oil! Greed will stop our Freedom To Choose!! Votes dont count!!! SAD Times!!!!!

gd vid cheers!!!

[scottishchap2008]

support SNP and free scotland from the lies of the British Government and there facist American friends who have led us into a disaster with Iraq and are slowly but surely taking away our rights for the interest of the world elite

[ScotlandsMessenger]

scottishchap2008 - Oppose SNP and free Scotland from the lies of the anti-Scottish, anti-British Salmond-Brown UK government and their fascist pro-royalist anti-republican anti-American friends who have slowed us up from making a rapid success in Iraq and are slowly but surely taking away our rights for the interest of the world Kings, Queens, Ayatollahs and assorted dictators of the Mugabe and Castro variety.

scottishchap2008 - I'd give you 2 out of 10. Must try harder.

[1celtic1888]

and why is an independence refferendum so important to wendy alexader suddenly?

The SNP said along time ago that they will have the refferendum in 2010.

we need a scottish republic

[ScotlandsMessenger]

1celtic1888 - The referendum is not going to offer either true Scottish independence or a Scottish republic.

The UK establishment is determined to keep control of Scotland, even if they need to use remote control like they control Australia and Canada instead of the direct control they have just now.

Salmond and the SNP are a way for the UK to keep control over Scotland and deny real independence for us.

If and when there is a referendum it will be rigged to stop a Scottish republic.

[snafu1989]

hahahaha

Any evidence of British control over Canada or Australia? I mean credible evidence. If anyone has control over them it is the United States. How you could say Britain has control over them is laughable.

Change your name from ScotlandsMessenger. You do not represent my views.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - I said "UK control" I did not say "British control". What's the difference?

Well the British people are subjugated under the UK state same as the Scottish people are. Most are brainwashed by the TV and happy about the status quo.

So there is no evidence of true British control over Britain, never mind over anyone else.

The UK state is essentially anti-British in its control, keeping the British nation down and oppressed, using the brutal police state - courts and prisons.

[snafu1989]

Police state? Brutal? How is this a police state? You barely see any cops walking about as it is. The courts if anything are lenient because of the over crowded prisons and that's because the majority of people here believe in harsher punishments for criminals.

How are we subjugated? How are 'they' oppressing us? The US, a republic, has a far harsher legal system then ours and you do not need to be middle/upper class with a massive financial backing to become an MP or PM.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - Yes Jean Charles de Menezes didn't see any police either up until seconds before they shot him in the head.

Check (More info) for a link to my Scottish National Standard Bearer website - there you can read about how exactly the state is oppressing some of us.

See my page "Arrogant and tyrannical judges

Beware of perverted judges and psychiatrists" for an example of what they did to me.

Even when the evidence is all around, you don't see it and prefer to turn a blind eye.

[snafu1989]

lolololol

The reason for the heavy Police presence when Menezes was shot is because that was after 7/7, to prevent further terrorist attacks. Menezes was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is NOT evidence of a Police state.

Oppressing you? You are slandering the system that has been giving you an income for doing nothing since 1991. You are the one who is blind.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - I uploaded the video

"Student murdered on the street. UK Royalist disorder." on my BritishFlagBearer channel.

I am angry at the judges for being lenient with dangerous criminals, yet brutal with public-spirited citizens like myself.

It may be that the UK royalist judges are soft with the uneducated and violent scum because the crime waves justify general judicial powers which they also want in order to oppress their political enemies, the intellectuals, like me?

[snafu1989]

I don't think that persons family would appreciate you using their death for your own political agenda. You should take it down out of respect. It's rather disgusting.

The Judges are tied by free space in prison cells and government policy.

You are not an intellectual.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - But to give a specific example, the Queen's Governor General in 1975 sacked the Australian Prime Minister Gough Whitlam.

Now, for all I know, he probably needed sacking for many reasons but no doubt the wrong reason was given and so the wrong political lessons were learned by the Australians.

It may also be that Australian and Canadian MPs or equivalent are required to give some kind of loyalty oath to the Queen as our MPs and MSPs are?

I've never lived in either country.

[snafu1989]

Well he was sacked because he was trying to run Australia without supply. In 1975 he proposed a new Supply Bill which the opposition moved against and this delayed the Senate's consideration of the bill. Instead of opening a new election he challenged the opposition. This meant that essential public services would cease to run because of a lack of money. Whitlam decides to borrow money to keep the country running however this tread on thin ice legally.

[snafu1989]

cont.

The Governor General exercised Reserve Power (which has very tight constraints on use) to sack Whitlow immediately replacing him with a caretaker PM who immediately called an election and the party in power was resoundingly defeated by the popular vote.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

Well I can't disagree with an earlier election in principle.

The problem is that the popular vote reflects the propaganda of state-controlled media, controlled by royalist institutions (over here, the BBC governors and the UK courts).

If the Governor General can sack the PM perhaps he can control the TV and press enough to advantage his preferred parties?

Who knows what else the "caretaker" PM got up to? States do deny fair and free elections.

Ian Huntley was a murderer "caretaker".

[snafu1989]

The BBC is not too bad at reporting. It is FAR better than STV/ITV however C4 news is the best of them all in my opinion. Private media pushes the political view points of their owner, like Murdoch with Sky News, Fox (which is awful) and The Scum (Sun). Something like the BBC is far better but I see it becoming more like ITV every year.

The Governor General has no power over the media. See Reserve Powers.

The caretaker didn't have power to change law. An election was called straight away.

[snafu1989]

Also Huntley's occupation has absolutely no bearing on the above. That is just ridiculous to even think that. And you call yourself an intellectual?

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - True I am not an elected representative but I can still pass on important messages of behalf of the nation as a whole, which otherwise would not be sent.

For example, if the outside world only listens to Queen Elizabeth, or her ministers, Brown and Salmond, the world leaders might think very badly of us, get very worried indeed what on earth we were up to and some may think the solution was to go to war against us.

So I do not represent your stupidity but I defend you from it.

[snafu1989]

I do not understand your example. How would they think badly of us? What could they do (within reason, no fantasy) that would cause NATO or the EU (which has limited military cooperation) to 'intervene' in the United Kingdom? That would be a possibility if a madman like Hitler came to power. The UK is part of the UN and various armament and nuclear treaties to which we adhere. We are firmly on side of the US so I doubt we will be invaded. The nearest potential conventional threat is Russia.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - Well the topical issue is the Iraq and Afghanistan interventions - and how that is being spun by our enemies as "A war for oil" or "Imperialism".

Now if policies and messages are left entirely to the US President and UK Prime Minister there is a very real danger that enemy counter-propaganda would grow the forces of the enemy, recruiting in this country, leading to more attacks like the 7/7 London bombs & Glasgow airport attack.

Helpful criticism from independents is useful.

[snafu1989]

Radical Islam's hate for the West goes way beyond Iraq. It goes back to the Crusades.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

I did say remote control, which may be weakening slowly over time. Australia may become a republic one day.

We should support Australian and Canadian republican movements and join with them in the fight against our common enemy - the Queen, her family and the royalist, fascist establishment in Scotland under Salmond.

We should expect the enemy SNP royalists to rig any independence referendum and prevent proper open debate on TV in favour of national independence via a Scottish republic.

[snafu1989]

The 'control' is very limited. As I said above the Reserve Powers are rarely used and only in exceptional circumstances. The Australians and New Zealanders went to war in Vietnam through their own accord (likely influenced by the US) moreover if we had any control I'm sure the Gov. here would pressure Aus and NZ into purchasing British kit for their militaries however most of the stuff is American or European.

How can you call the SNP fascist when their policies are centre left?

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - Normal circumstances being all the institutions being run (mismanaged) by royalists.

Yes well independent royalist states of Australia and New Zealand can do whatever the hell their royalist ministers want - either to their own people, or as regards foreign and military policy.

A democratic republic can end the independence of the state and make it accountable to the people.

The US prefers client states to enemies but democratic republics make for stronger partners.

[snafu1989]

Democratic Republics are not better than what the UK has. They make the same mistakes as each other. The US is very corrupt nation at all levels of government.

The US and the UK are very strong partners as is.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

snafu1989 - The royalist SNP, "centre left"?

The SNP are for a "constitutional" (from hell) "monarchy" - less far right than an absolute monarchy.

Don't get me wrong, every step away from absolute monarchy - like the step taken in the Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 - is a step in the correct direction (leftwards).

But only if you have a medieval mindset, is this "centre-left".

Likewise, the SNP have a "centre-left" policy in that they oppose the burning of witches and heretics?

[snafu1989]

They are centre left. Just look at their policies.

Centre left of the political spectrum. It is a modern concept and not medieval at all. The SNP is in favour of harsh sentencing as are most other parties. But they want to rehabilitate some criminals as well depending on crime.

Side note: You claim Judges to be fascists when they hand out a lenient sentence to a burglar. A fascist state would do the opposite. Also you are in favour of very harsh sentencing which is something fascists do.

[ScotlandsMessenger]

1celtic1888 - I wish it was because Wendy was saying if Salmond doesn't bring on the referendum NOW she would oppose him as UK FM

But I fear it may be that Wendy is trying to throw the spotlight off herself because people might ask "WHEN OH WHEN WILL WENDY START OPPOSING SALMOND INSTEAD OF ABSTAINING?"

Wendy may be wanting people to ask instead "When Oh When will Salmond bring on an independence referendum?"

I am BEGGING Wendy to oppose Salmond imposing the UK dictatorship on us Scots.

[1celtic1888]

I want independence but i dont want scotland to join the E.U. the eu is fuckin shite. do your research.

[WickedWallace1]

Yeah and let Scotland be cut off from the world like North Korea!

[1celtic1888]

I dindnt say that. Is norway or switzerland anything like north korea?

[ScotlandsMessenger]

1celtic1888 - The Norwegian King is even more rubbish than the UK Queen. He appointed a penguin in Edinburgh Zoo as a sergeant major in the Norwegian army!

What is even more weird is most of the world's scientists, authors and peace-makers want nothing more in life than to go to Norway to kiss the King's arse and get a wee share of the Nobel dynamite royalties!

Tell the Norwegians to stuff their Nobel prizes!

The Swiss are OK for cowards who depended on us to save them from Hitler!

[ScotlandsMessenger]

1celtic1888 - The EU IS indeed shite, but why is that? Why have they never helped Scots or Britons get shot of the Queen and the UK?

I think it is the history.

The Europeans just can't get over that it was Churchill, the British, the Americans & Soviets who delivered them from Hitler and therefore they are simply too in awe of the Scottish, British and the rest to put a helpful arm around our shoulders and say to us - "Don't worry, we will arrest the evil Queen of the UK for you".

[ScotlandsMessenger]

1celtic1888 - The EU may think we are supermen when we are just men and women with weaknesses like everyone else.

What the EU don't realise is that even super-Scots or super-Britons who can defeat tyrants, empires and liberate Europe - even we have weaknesses.

Superman the comic hero had green kryptonite as his weakness.

We Scots and Britons have the Queen and the UK as our weakness.

So we could do with some help to get rid of them - but the timid EU never steps up to help us out.

[Jl200]

BRING IT ON WENDY ! BRING IT ON! Scottish Independence 4EVR!

[shoelover25]

i agree we Scots should be independance and get are culutre and language back and Brown said if we sepearate from the UK will hurt Scotland I don't think it will hurt us and Brown is a Scot

[glasgow1234]

Independence Now !