The dead see was not all way's dead see was a city there kingdom the natural dam holding the water behind was blown up to kill all who had invested in insurance of the Mason to build a wall to hold back the water, but they did not build the wall but killed all the human's of Jesus Christ kingdom and built the wall of jew rule some wall court yard's
why was john allegro the only one out of the 8 translators to publish his translation of his section of the dead sea scrolls where as the other 7 people took 44 years? seems shady
I think the scrolls is important, it proves to the world the Bible is true , and not like some say written by the Illuminati ,the first Illuminati order started in 1776. GODS Bible will never be stopped , it will go on for ever and ever and ever....
Okay, this is a zionist video. The bible is an awkward religious fraud from India and Tibet. Okay, the religious closeness of 'qumran', 'quran' and 'qurban' shows only that abrahamic religious are with the same source of the outcastes of "kuru".("Ur"-mount light or "guru"-teacher who disperse the dark).
@go4vern Yep. Well, they are linked by Qs such as the Queen and Quest. You know Qumran is a geographical place, right? And I cannot imagine how you think the Bible is from Indian and Tibet; first century Jew Paul of Tarsus was from Tibet? What?
@sexyarii , no, it is not that mess masonic type, that you decribe. Listen, so called "Abrahamic religions" are residues of the Brahmins from the Vedic age. There are called pollutant of sanatana dharma. That's a public secret now, in the age of communication and technology. It is not the medi-EVIL times of the church now.
Essenes, to whom Jesus Christ belonged to, were the "Buddhists of the Middle East". So called "Bible" is a great manipulation of the Roman Church, a conspiracy with Sanhedrin.
@go4vern Hahahaha. As I noted earlier, stupidest thing I have read in a while. Jesus was not an Essene, nor were the Essene's the "Buddhists of the Middle East". And the "Bible" was written long before the "Roman Church". Read a book, study history. Anything but make up nonsense.
@sexyarii ,my friend, you are the one had not studied the things! Study that stupidest "sacred" book, called biblia*Gr- 66 books, compilation of religous frauds from the civlizations? The bible?- this is not worthy even for a kindergarden's parable fable booklet cos it is full of inconsistencies, but it has to be because, first by the awkward copying Vedical knowledge thru' neighbouring Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations.
Search for bible inconsistencies and "evil bible" on the net, my friend!
@go4vern No, really, you haven't. You seem to think that words staring with "Qu" must all be related. And it turns out you do not even know what those words mean. Once again, you cannot make a logical argument or provide evidence to defend any of your claims. I get it, you like your own beliefs, but it does not mean you have to LIE about others. That you have to lie about others shows you have problems with your own beliefs!
@sexyarii , my believes?.. sexy, you may believe, you may not believe. But I am telling you sth very important- Abrahamic religions, esp. christian zionism, a replica of judaism, is not only a demoniac religion, but this video shows that is demoniac pseudo-reasoning. nd by the way, you cannot get the etymological sequence of my reasoning just because you don't know Sanskrit or any other languages, much much more ancient that the fabricated Hebrew(Habiru, Abiru, Apiru).
@go4vern No, Christianity is not a replica of Judaism. And what has this video to do with your lies? You are very confused. And there is no reasoning. You just listed three unrelated words. Qur'an means recitation, Khirbet Qumran is a place. There is no connection between these other than the English transilteration of "QU", such as in "Queen", "Quest", "Quebec", "Quagmire". And now Hebrew is fabricated? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Please, get an education!
@sexyarii ,that must mean the DEvil lived in DEnmark ,and when we referr to our sisters as "SHe we mean that we think their SHit , BYE ,and i don't mean you bi sexual or bi polar.........................
The Dead Sea Scrolls provide comparative information for the study of ancient Hebrew and the Bible text. Included non-scriptural manuscripts and fragments help us to understand the context of Jewish life during the time that Jesus preached. One of the most exciting discoveries is a complete manuscript of the book of Isaiah. It shows consistent use of the Tetragrammaton, יהוה, God’s holy name, Jehovah, in Hebrew.
what if somebody just made that dead sea scroll to earn money?, or sombody found that old blank material and start writting phrases from the bible? Who benifited this discovery?i really believe that this is the case here.
think about it so many scrolls were discovered and many of them
were in bad shape they had to piece many of the pieces together...there still translating them today thats how many were found... and as far as who benefited it from it every one did those scrolls are a part of all of our history from jews to christans to muslims... those scrolls are the roots of the three faiths...
@jshjamaar lol...dude i can write something in english and translate it to arabic. the meaning is the same but the lanuage is different? The gospels have been the same for many centuries.
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Surah 111, v. 112] Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress.
@SSDDdash, What makes you Muslims think allah, a pre-Islamic pagan moon god, is the same God of the Bible? Your false prophet Muhammad gave you NO PROPHECIES & NO MIRACLES to prove it is the truth. Muhammad had SCRIBES write down the Qur'an, one of those scribes was Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh. Sarh apostatized because he frequently made suggestions on improving their wording, knowing it could not be from God if a mere scribe were allowed to change God's word he fled to Mecca.
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Qur'an. Surah IX, v. 26-34] Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Quran 5:14] From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Quran 62:5] The example of those who were entrusted with the Torah and then did not take it on is like that of a donkey who carries volumes [of books]. Wretched is the example of the people who deny the signs (Quran) of Allah. And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. The truth of God Almighty.
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Qur'an, sura 2:87]We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
This does actually have a real source. Read the whole "Significant to the Canon of the Bible" part. There are two sources marked 21 and 22.
There is no excuse for you Christians and Jews. How can you possibly refute this?
Seriously, why do all you Christians and Jews say the scroll prove your point? It completely destroys your point. The Isaiah Scroll? That is only one out of 220 scrolls found. What about all the changes in the other ones? Sometimes the changes were "DRASTIC".
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the racist state of Israel confiscated all the scrolls after the 1967 war and occupation of Jerusalem, the project of translating the scrolls that was conducted by honest archaeologists was halted, and Israelis exposed some of the scrolls and concealed the others, only to show them again in the nineties.
OVER 200 SCROLLS WERE DISCOVERED at the time, where are they?
Why is everyone fighting over what church Jesus founded. people Jesus didnt come to earth create a church. but to die on the cross for the salvation of mankind. that was his sole purpose!! Man! why do u guys make it complicated? Jesus was so easy to understand. and yet people argue over Him as if He's some kind of a riddle. Just read the Bible and follow His teachings. it's as simple as drinking water. dont complicate anything. geeze!
@HelloWorld1947 Jesus was a Jew who preached to Jews ONLY - check out your own bible. Christianity took on pagan strories about a sacrificed saviour, added a Jewish teacher, and BINGO - there is your religion.
@evo55 - The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures"
I suppose that is because human sacrifice was forbidden and that one person cannot atone for the sins of another, evo. The Jews weren't blinded. They remained true to their belief but the Christians twisted it a bit and added pagan lore, thanks to Paul.
One question aside from this discussion - Paul in his many writings, seems to always be defending himself and stating that he is not a liar? Whey is that?
looking at your peoples comments i suggest more research..if these scrolls werent found then christianity would be just about disproven right now..but the scrolls actually prove that jesus was real and all the spirituality in their..you should look up buddhism and hinduism because their teachings and the dead sea scrolls talk about the sme thing..
Look up gregg braden for this information he knows more and explains better.
No, Christianity would not be "disproven" if the scrolls were not found. I can't see how that statement possibly makes sense. And the scrolls don't prove Jesus was real as they do not talk of Jesus. The works in the New Testament, however, speak of Jesus.
If you had read the Dead Sea Scrolls you would most definitely would not claim that say the same thing as Buddhism or Hinduism. Read a Buddhist or Hindu text along the War Scroll for example and tell me they're the same ;)
What a ridiculous 'book', if you want a real introduction read something by an actual scholar who knows what they are talking about. Tim Lim has a book called 'A Very Short Introduction to the DSS' which would be a far more fruitful read. On the point, Jesus is not mentioned in the scrolls - but numerous othjer people are from the community, the teacher of righteousness, the wicked priest, Jannaeus, the Pharisees (lovers of smooth things), the temple priests, etc.
@OnlineBibleMinistry On the point, Jesus is not mentioned in the scrolls - but numerous othjer people are from the community, the teacher of righteousness, the wicked priest, Jannaeus, the Pharisees (lovers of smooth things), the temple priests, etc.
We don't have names for the Wicked Priest or Teacher of Righteousness, however, some people debate their identities. If we take Alexander Jannaeus for example, we believe the scrolls talk about him because of the mention of him crucifying a heap of Pharisees. The temple priests are mentioned in a polemical document known as 4QMMT where the Qumran sectarians disagreed with how they carried out some temple practices.
Why would the Essenes consider Paul "the lying priest"? We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes. But that aside, the reason why it isn't a possibility is due to the fact that the Wicked Priest pre-dates Paul by a good hundred years.
@OnlineBibleMinistry - Pliny the Elder described a community of Essenes living on the western shore of the Dead Sea, close to where Khirbet Qumran is situated. If the Qumran community was not made up of Essenes, then they were completely ignored by every ancient writer and historian. That seems very unlikely.
The "liar" was an outsider who was admitted to the community, then turned renegade, quarrelled with the "Teacher" and hijacked part of the community's doctrine and membership.
2)According to the Habakkuk Commentary, the Liar "did not listen to the word received by the Teacher of Righteousness from the mouth of God". Instead, he appealed to "the unfaithful of the New Covenant in that they have not believed in the Covenant of God and have profaned His holy name". The text states explicitly that "the Liar...flouted the Law in the midst of their whole congregation".
Once again, ignoring the important details. You could speculate anything - maybe I was the Teacher of Righteousness and you were the Wicked Priest? However, like your example, the speculation fails in accounting for the evidence.
The Habbakuk Commenterary was composed as early as 120BCE. When was Paul born? A few years into the first century?
Once agian, what has this got to do with Paul? To repeat my questions: "Why would the Essenes consider Paul "the lying priest"? We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes. But that aside, the reason why it isn't a possibility is due to the fact that the Wicked Priest pre-dates Paul by a good hundred years. "
@OnlineBibleMinistry -We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes.
It is my understanding that, after the fall of the temple in 70AD, what remained of Jesus followers at the Jerusalem Church went by the names of Essenes and Nazarenes who were eventually hunted down and killed as heretics by Pauline Christians.
That is an erroneous understanding. You may be thinking of the Ebionites that emerged in the second century with an anti-Pauline swing, however, we have no evidence of them being an early group. Regarding the 'Nazarenes' as early Christians, many studies have shown that they were not in conflict with Paul or the other apostles, and shared orthodox Christology (e.g. Ray Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity).
@OnlineBibleMinistry - 'Nazarenes' as early Christians, many studies have shown that they were not in conflict with Paul.
Didn't Jesus' followers preach righteousness, while Paul preached faith and Grace. Comparisons being Mark 10:17-19 (Jesus directions for gaining eternal life through following the commandments - the Law) versus Paul who felt that the law was a curse and it was faith that was the most important. Now James stated that faith without works is dead. It's pretty confusing.
The testimony of the Ebionites has been preserved in two forms. Firstly, there are the summaries of Ebionite beliefs found in the writings of the Church authors Justin Martyr Irenaeus, Hippolytus and Tertullian , Origen and Epiphanius and JeromeThese all confirm that the Ebionites opposed Paul as a false apostle.
@evo55 - There are different opinions. Some say they were gone by 500 AD but some are recorded to be in Medina as late as 1100 AD. Muslim beliefs (Mohammed 570 AD) about Jesus, they say, were revealed in his Q'aran before any significant encounter with Christians. Considering the dates, most likely most of the Ebionites were few and far between, being wiped out by gentile Christians and orthodox Jews.
The fact the Ebionites did not survive proves they were not the true Church founded by Jesus. Jesus promised that His true Church would not be overcome but be triumphant over it's enemies.
@evo55 The followers of Jesus, evo, were the people of the Jerusalem Church which was destroyed in 70 AD. What was left of them fled, later being called Ebionites or Nazarenes. Jesus had no interest in Gentiles. All the Jewish Christians, followers of Jesus, were just that - Jews who believed that Jesus was the predicted HUMAN messiah. Your so-called true church has no connection with them. In fact, it is your church that helped to destroy them.
The Church founded by Jesus was an apostolic community with Peter as the head apostle. Peter left Jerusalem to be bishop of Antioch. Thereafter he went to Rome to be it's bishop. Jesus gave authority to His apostles to teach in His name. Jesus told them that He would be with them forever. Jesus did not leave His Church to be deafeated by unbelievers. The true Church will never be defeated, it is an eternal kingdom which will have no end. The Ebionites are no more, they were not the true Church.
@evo55 Peter was an apostle to the Jews, evo. Paul was the first apostle to the gentiles. Jesus was concerned with the Jews who were being Romanized by the Roman occupying force and that included the Jewish priests of that time. He also told his apostles to avoid the gentile towns and that he would be back before they had finished all the towns in Israel. Your "true church" is the one of Paul's invention.
@Matthew1944 Peter was the first of the apostles to preach to gentiles; Acts 10. Jesus told the apostles to preach to all people. He would not return util all nations had heard the Gospel.
@evo55 Paul affirms that Peter had the special charge of being apostle to the Jews, just as he, Paul, was apostle to the Gentiles.
On the contrary, evo, Jesus said, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles.. (Matthew 10:5) ..but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24).... "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
Matthew.10:23 - "Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "
@Matthew1944 You misunderstand the different phases of Jesus' mission. Jesus initial mission was as Messiah of Israel. When the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, the way of salvation was opened for all people. Thereafter Jesus commanded His disciples to go unto all the world and preach the Gospel to all people. It is after the Gospel has been preached to all nations that Christ will return.
@evo55 - That is what Christianity teaches yes but the difference is in the concept of messiah. The Jews were expecting a fully human messiah who would lead in kicking out the Romans and and had he done so, along with another number of other things DURING HIS LIFETIME he would have been accepted as the prophecied messiah. The Jewish concept of a messiah was not that of a man-god, evo.
2) men-gods, virgin births, human sacrifice and bodily resurrection are not Jewish and Jesus was a Jew. Since these did not come from the Jews, where do you suppose they came from? That leaves only the pagans who did believe in those things.
3) "Acts 13:47 "The Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth"
One of the things the messiah was to do during his lifetime was to convert the "whole earth" to Judaism. It is much more likely that his apostles mission was to do just that since they disagreed with Paul's doctrine.
3) It is interesting, evo, that Josephus writes toward the end of the century (60 years later) and mentions three major religions in Israel, Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes but Christianity is never mentioned as a religion. Neither does he mention a crucifixion or resurrection.
@Matthew1944 During the 1st century AD, Christianity was more of an underground movement than an established religion. Josephus does mention Jesus and his sect of followers.
@evo55 - It's true, Christianity was an underground religion because it was illegal until the third centruy. He mentions Jesus in two parts but both are either all or wholly forgeries since they were never mentioned before the time of Eusabius who is suspected of being the one who inserted them.
@evo55 Josephus does mention Jesus and his sect of followers. "
Jesus followers were Christian Jews, NOT Gentile Jews. They were Jews in every sense of the word except that they believe that Jesus was the total human messiah, no different than Solomon or David, who would deliver them from the occupation of the Romans. They did not believe he was a god-man, evo.
Jesus followers were both Jews and gentiles. There is no separation, for all are one in Christ. The Ebionites were Jews who accepted Jesus as their Messiah but rejected other truths revealed by the Holy Spiirt. They were a side branch that died out for they did not remain united to the true Church founded by Jesus.
@Matthew1944 Acts 13:47 is meant to be fullfilled by the Church, the body of Christ. Jesus works through His Church to be a light unto the gentiles. The Messiah was to establish the kingdom of God and not to convert anyone to Judaism. Judaism was not meant to be the end of God's revelation. The fullfillment of God's revelation is in the Christian faith. Christianity is the completion of Judaism.
@evo55 Christianity is the completion of Judaism. "
No it's not. It is a completely different belief system. The origin takes place in the same land and has a Jewish teacher as its center and nothing more.
The Jewish teacher at the center of Old Testament Judaism was Jesus whom the Jews rejected. The destruction of the Jewish temple is a sign form God that Judaism has been replaced by the Christian revelation.
@LoraSinger The Torah is comprised by the first five books of the Bible. The Tanakh is the Old Testament scriptures. The Talmud are Jewish commentaries on the Bible plus Jewish myths and legends.
@Matthew1944 The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures. They Jews were blinded by God, so they could not understand the Christian message of the Old Testament scriptures..
@evo55 - The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures"
I suppose that is because human sacrifice was forbidden and that one person cannot atone for the sins of another, evo. The Jews weren't blinded. They remained true to their belief but the Christians twisted it a bit and added pagan lore, thanks to Paul.
@They Jews were blinded by God, so they could not understand ,,,,,
The Jews have a book called the Talmud which is like your bible concordance which helps to understand the scriptures better. They have that benefit and you do not and for that reason, you put your own ideas into the scriptures. As well, you don't speak the language, aren't steeped in the culture, understand the idioms of the original language. As well, your OT is not the same as the original.
Jeremiah 8:8 condemns those writings that make up the Talmud. Jesus also condemned those traditions of the Jews that were not inspired by the Holy Spirit but were solely the conjectures of men.
@LoraSinger Jewish commentaries were being written during the time of Jeremiah. These commentaries are from the pen of the scribes that make the Law into a lie.
@evo55 Jewish commentaries were being written during the time of Jeremiah
At the time of Jeremiah, all the commentaries were transmitted orally. After the diaspora in the first century, it was thought that the wisdom would be lost and then it was put to paper in the form of the Talmud. The Law is the Torah - the first five books of the Tanakh, evo.
@LoraSinger The modern day Tanakh comes from the Concil of Jamnia @ 135 AD. This council of Jewish scholars rejected the Septuagint Bible due to it's use by Christians in converting Jews to Christ.
@evo55@LoraSinger What then does Jeremiah mean when he says, "the pen of the scribes has made the Law into a lie."? Has the actual Torah been corrupted?
In Mechon mamre, Jeremiah 8, the original verse goes: "8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes."
@evo55@LoraSinger What then does Jeremiah mean when he says, "the pen of the scribes has made the Law into a lie."? Has the actual Torah been corrupted?
In Mechon mamre, Jeremiah 8, the original verse goes: "8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes."
@evo55 The Christian Old Testament is closer to the original via the Septuagint, than the Masoretic text created by Jews after their rejection of Christ. "
Wrong. It was the original from which the Septuagint was taken and with translation and editing, was put to paper as Greek in 250 BC, then 500 years ago, with translation and editing, was put to paper in medieval English. The Tanakh has remained the same all the way through.
@Matthew1944 The Jews were blinded by God so they could not understand the Christian concept of the Messiah revealed by the prophet Isaiah(Isaiah 29:10-12). The prophet Isiaah reveals the Messiah to be God(Isaiah 9:6).
@evo55 - The Jews were blinded by God so they could not understand the Christian concept of the Messiah "
That's what Christians like to think BUT the concept of a messiah is not what Christians accept and the Jews' concept came first. The Messiah was to be a fully human leader/ king just as David and Solomon were messiahs. Isaiah says nothing about Jesus.
Timothy Lim is a professor at the University of Edinburgh and has the chair in Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Judaism there. You can find his profile on the School of Divinity website for Edinburgh.
@OnlineBibleMinistry - does that void his reputation as a professor at a top university?
Certainly not but being Jewish would give him an added dimension to understanding Jewish culture, language, beliefs, traditions and history. One can have an understanding of the language without a real understanding of the people, unless one is of that culture.
And that is assuming that contemporary Judaism is the same culture as the second temple period. We know that the period was in fact fragmented - we had the numerous Jewish groups, and it was Pharasaic Judaism that influenced Rabbinic Judaism post-fall to contemporary Judaism.
I wouldn't doubt Professor Lim's credibility and intimate knowledge of the period because he isn't remotely related to it down the family tree ;)
Because the author has no idea what he is talking about, hence the reason why it is published on a website. His agenda is polemical and most definitely not scholarly.
2000 years ago huh that means they could have just been a family airlum to a jewish person thats it and Ive found out that the current way we date stuff can sometimes be far off.
I want to read them, where can the dead sea scrolls be read, and have they been translated? Anyway the catholic church has already touched these scrolls and have removed anything contrary to their teachings.
Yes, the scrolls (or most as many parts are just fragments) have been translated. However, many translations do not contain the canonical Biblical texts in translation.
A good translation of quite a few texts would be Geza Vermes' 'The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English'. (Note, does not actually contain all the scrolls.)
And no, the Catholic church has not touched the scrolls and removed anything contrary to their teachings.
Thanks for the info. Have you heard of John Allegro? In 1953 he was the first British representative on the team working on the scrolls in Jordan. He wanted to have the scrolls translated for public viewing, however the priests he was working with did not want to make it public until they had a chance to review the info because they were afraid the scrolls would say something not in line with their teachings.
No problem. Yes, I know John Allegro. The mythical hype of Allegro is addressed in the preface of Geza Vermes' translation.
The DSS are and were always out of the control of the Roman Catholic Church. The truth of the scrolls and their impact on understanding Messianic expectations, Jewish diversity and other issues in the Second Temple Period is far more interesting than the conspiratorial fiction.
Why don't translations of the scrolls contain any New Testament texts? Because there weren't any NT texts found (unless you follow Peter Carsten Thiede's interpretation on the cave 7 fragments as being Christian).
Some of the texts are pre-Christian, whereas others may not - or they were at least copied in the first century. The community at Qumran was in existence at the same time as Christianity for a few decades, however, the Qumran group was intentionally in isolation so we don't know if their paths crossed with early Christians.
Josephus spoke of three main religions, the Essenes being one of them.
Pliny the elder writes: "To the west (of the Dead Sea) the Essenes have put the necessary distance between themselves and the insalubrious shore
According to Philo "The Essenes live in a number of towns in Judea, and also in many villages and in large groups. They do not enlist by race, but by volunteers who have a zeal for righteousness "
I don't see what you are trying to get at by posting some comments on the greater Essene movement? The sectarians at Qumran were an exclusivist community seeing themselves as the true Israel. Take a reead of 1QS and you will get a look at their community.
@OnlineBibleMinistry - don't see what you are trying to get at by posting some comments on the greater Essene movement?"
From what I've been reading, it seems that most scholars believe that the Essenes and the Quamran people are one and the same. Josephus writes that the main religions were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes and describes the Essenes in some detail but makes no mention of the Quamran people, perhaps because they are one and same?
@OnlineBibleMinistry so we don't know if their paths crossed with early Christians."
Have you ever wondered if perhaps they were the early christians. There is the absence of Jesus from the age of 12 to the age of 30 and considering he was single at 30 (Jewish fathers were mandated to find a wife for their sons by the age of 20) - perhaps this is where Jesus was for those years - with the Quamran people.
How could they have been early Christians (followers of the Christ, identified as Jesus) when the community existed before Jesus' ministry?
Jesus' abstinence is a rather peropheral point - for a connection, we would need to examine the evidence and teachins of Jesus. Jesus' approach to the temple and especially ritual cleanliness and strict interpretation of the law were worlds apart.
Jesus put an emphasis on righteousness as did the Essenes. My question is whether he might have trained there in his "lost years" and eventually became the "teacher of righteousness".
The Teacher of RIghteousness pre-dates Jesus, and they are very different individuals. The chronological absurdty aside, the Qumran community is in conflict with Jesus over chief interpretations of the law.
Jesus associated with all of Jewish society from tax collectors (Luke 5), to the poor and sick (e.g. Matt 9), Samaritan women (John 4:9) and even the Pharisees (Luke 7:36; John 3:1). Jesus taught all these people, the multitudes (e.g. John 6) and in the temple (John 7:14). Jesus taught to not just love ones neighbour, but to love ones enemy and pray for those who persecute you (Matt 5:43-44).
Alternatively, the Qumran sectarians were far more exclusive. They taught to separate from the unjust men (1QS VIII.13) and hate their enemies, as well as anyone out of their clique (1QS I.10). They were exhorted to "conceal the teaching of the Law" and only share it with their own community.
@Matthew1944 Then I'd say you either don't know what Jesus preached or the Qumran sectarians preached. We can point to numerous occassions where they were deadly opposed to each other in both beliefs and practice. Of course they would have similarities - just as Jesus had with other Jewish groups at the time, probably most notably the Pharisees, but that is still no evidence for any of your claims.
@OnlineBibleMinistry - just as Jesus had with other Jewish groups at the time, probably most notably the Pharisees,
I understant that the priests in the time of Jesus were appointed by the Romans to maintain order and quell rebellion so it would be natural for Jesus to rail against them since they would have had a hellinzing effect on the populace thereby diluting pure Judaism.
2) Continued from "thereby diluting pure Judaism".
Considering Jesus statement "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." In fact it seems that he directs his apostles to avoid gentile towns "Go not into the way of the Gentiles". I suppose that would be because he expect to come back in the time frame of that generation ", I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "
Follow the blackest part of your soul. The dark messiah is who we search for. Cold rays of moonlight describing his rank. Satan's blood, it infects your soul. Satan's blood, it is dark as coal. Covered with blood of faith and dead prayers. We walk deeper into demon's territory. Holiness destroyed as the gates torn free. He is the master of dark arts. Hypnotic eyes to break your mind. Mystic circle will close this oath. Burn the light as a symbol to fight. Satan and I are as one.
There are books included in the Dead Sea Scrolls that are no longer included in the Bible. This is because MEN chose which books to include and omit, just as MEN chose the words to compose it with in the FIRST place. End of story. End of story. END OF STORY.
The Book of Enoch (1 Enoch) is the 3rd most frequent book found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Look in your own Bible. I bet it is not included. It's funny because this book is quoted in Jude 1:14-15. The Book of Jubilees is the 6th most frequent book found among the Dead Sea scrolls.
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I think God is too Mighty to not protect His Word , I know there's a promise of His somewhere that this world will pass away but His Word will never pass away.
There are books/letters from both the Old Testament and the New that were held as canon by some, but not by the majority and there were criteria by which these things were judged. Some believe that the Spirit of God guided his people in regards to what should and should not be accepted as scripture. Others believe politics kept God out of the process. Personally, I don't buy the idea that God was not sovereign over the compilation of his word. The other books are out there. Judge for yourselves.
Again, correct. The Intertestamental Books have been found in (relatively) large numbers at Qumran, long with all of that calendar material. None of it made into the Bible. And the OT texts at Qumran in fact demonstrate that there were no set texts of the Hebrew Scripures even as late as the 1st Century AD.
@KonradAdenauer " -And the OT texts at Qumran in fact demonstrate that there were no set texts of the Hebrew Scripures even as late as the 1st Century AD.
Not even the Torah? Then what was translated into the Septuagint in 250 BC?
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The Quran Majeed before it was changed came from Qumran Village Jesus Christ .The first three letter's of the Quran Majeed
wingully 2 weeks ago
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The dead see was not all way's dead see was a city there kingdom the natural dam holding the water behind was blown up to kill all who had invested in insurance of the Mason to build a wall to hold back the water, but they did not build the wall but killed all the human's of Jesus Christ kingdom and built the wall of jew rule some wall court yard's
wingully 2 weeks ago
What about of the enoch book??
Luciano7NY 1 month ago
why was john allegro the only one out of the 8 translators to publish his translation of his section of the dead sea scrolls where as the other 7 people took 44 years? seems shady
enfinite5 4 months ago
I think the scrolls is important, it proves to the world the Bible is true , and not like some say written by the Illuminati ,the first Illuminati order started in 1776. GODS Bible will never be stopped , it will go on for ever and ever and ever....
yolliebuys 5 months ago
There variants, but you can hardly tell the difference. So there the difference means its legit, does that not make sense to anyone else.
Yaseen47 7 months ago
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johnsond2539 7 months ago
Okay, this is a zionist video. The bible is an awkward religious fraud from India and Tibet. Okay, the religious closeness of 'qumran', 'quran' and 'qurban' shows only that abrahamic religious are with the same source of the outcastes of "kuru".("Ur"-mount light or "guru"-teacher who disperse the dark).
Torah=Qoran
go4vern 9 months ago
@go4vern That might be the stupidest thing I have read in a long time.
sexyarii 9 months ago
@sexyarii , why?...
'Qumran' is not linked to 'Quran' and 'Qurban'?..
go4vern 9 months ago
@go4vern Yep. Well, they are linked by Qs such as the Queen and Quest. You know Qumran is a geographical place, right? And I cannot imagine how you think the Bible is from Indian and Tibet; first century Jew Paul of Tarsus was from Tibet? What?
sexyarii 9 months ago
@sexyarii , no, it is not that mess masonic type, that you decribe. Listen, so called "Abrahamic religions" are residues of the Brahmins from the Vedic age. There are called pollutant of sanatana dharma. That's a public secret now, in the age of communication and technology. It is not the medi-EVIL times of the church now.
Essenes, to whom Jesus Christ belonged to, were the "Buddhists of the Middle East". So called "Bible" is a great manipulation of the Roman Church, a conspiracy with Sanhedrin.
go4vern 9 months ago
@go4vern Hahahaha. As I noted earlier, stupidest thing I have read in a while. Jesus was not an Essene, nor were the Essene's the "Buddhists of the Middle East". And the "Bible" was written long before the "Roman Church". Read a book, study history. Anything but make up nonsense.
sexyarii 9 months ago
@sexyarii ,my friend, you are the one had not studied the things! Study that stupidest "sacred" book, called biblia*Gr- 66 books, compilation of religous frauds from the civlizations? The bible?- this is not worthy even for a kindergarden's parable fable booklet cos it is full of inconsistencies, but it has to be because, first by the awkward copying Vedical knowledge thru' neighbouring Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations.
Search for bible inconsistencies and "evil bible" on the net, my friend!
go4vern 9 months ago
@go4vern No, really, you haven't. You seem to think that words staring with "Qu" must all be related. And it turns out you do not even know what those words mean. Once again, you cannot make a logical argument or provide evidence to defend any of your claims. I get it, you like your own beliefs, but it does not mean you have to LIE about others. That you have to lie about others shows you have problems with your own beliefs!
sexyarii 9 months ago
@sexyarii , my believes?.. sexy, you may believe, you may not believe. But I am telling you sth very important- Abrahamic religions, esp. christian zionism, a replica of judaism, is not only a demoniac religion, but this video shows that is demoniac pseudo-reasoning. nd by the way, you cannot get the etymological sequence of my reasoning just because you don't know Sanskrit or any other languages, much much more ancient that the fabricated Hebrew(Habiru, Abiru, Apiru).
go4vern 9 months ago
@go4vern No, Christianity is not a replica of Judaism. And what has this video to do with your lies? You are very confused. And there is no reasoning. You just listed three unrelated words. Qur'an means recitation, Khirbet Qumran is a place. There is no connection between these other than the English transilteration of "QU", such as in "Queen", "Quest", "Quebec", "Quagmire". And now Hebrew is fabricated? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Please, get an education!
sexyarii 9 months ago
@sexyarii ,that must mean the DEvil lived in DEnmark ,and when we referr to our sisters as "SHe we mean that we think their SHit , BYE ,and i don't mean you bi sexual or bi polar.........................
roxfoot 8 months ago
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wana know the real purpose of life, watch the videos on my channel.
Rav814 10 months ago
Thanks for sharing. I was blessed.
manyviewsorg 10 months ago
The Dead Sea Scrolls provide comparative information for the study of ancient Hebrew and the Bible text. Included non-scriptural manuscripts and fragments help us to understand the context of Jewish life during the time that Jesus preached. One of the most exciting discoveries is a complete manuscript of the book of Isaiah. It shows consistent use of the Tetragrammaton, יהוה, God’s holy name, Jehovah, in Hebrew.
TruthbeToldreality 11 months ago
what if somebody just made that dead sea scroll to earn money?, or sombody found that old blank material and start writting phrases from the bible? Who benifited this discovery?i really believe that this is the case here.
DECOFRANCE 1 year ago
@DECOFRANCE yea they wrote it in acient aramaic
think about it so many scrolls were discovered and many of them
were in bad shape they had to piece many of the pieces together...there still translating them today thats how many were found... and as far as who benefited it from it every one did those scrolls are a part of all of our history from jews to christans to muslims... those scrolls are the roots of the three faiths...
1turner22 1 year ago
@1turner22 Yep and the gnostic gospels are false. The Gnostic Bibles were written in another language about 300 to 400 years after the resurrection.
jshjamaar 1 year ago
@jshjamaar lol...dude i can write something in english and translate it to arabic. the meaning is the same but the lanuage is different? The gospels have been the same for many centuries.
azar24701 1 year ago
@DECOFRANCE Your evidence?
JohnBlack666id 1 year ago
@ video owner, I hope god guide you and all good christians & jews to the straight path, to the true path or God. Ameen.
xxx
SSDDdash 1 year ago
@SSDDdash shut up or are you gona bomb my house with a plane if i dont covert into a muslim
g3tCRUNKIN 11 months ago
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In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Surah 111, v. 112] Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress.
SSDDdash 1 year ago
@SSDDdash, What makes you Muslims think allah, a pre-Islamic pagan moon god, is the same God of the Bible? Your false prophet Muhammad gave you NO PROPHECIES & NO MIRACLES to prove it is the truth. Muhammad had SCRIBES write down the Qur'an, one of those scribes was Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh. Sarh apostatized because he frequently made suggestions on improving their wording, knowing it could not be from God if a mere scribe were allowed to change God's word he fled to Mecca.
selious04 10 months ago
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In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Qur'an. Surah IX, v. 26-34] Believers, many are the rabbis and the monks who defraud men of their possessions... Proclaim a woeful punishment to those that hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's cause.... their treasures shall be heated in the fire of Hell.
SSDDdash 1 year ago
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Quran 5:14] From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
SSDDdash 1 year ago
In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Quran 62:5] The example of those who were entrusted with the Torah and then did not take it on is like that of a donkey who carries volumes [of books]. Wretched is the example of the people who deny the signs (Quran) of Allah. And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. The truth of God Almighty.
SSDDdash 1 year ago
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In The Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [Qur'an, sura 2:87]We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
SSDDdash 1 year ago
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This does actually have a real source. Read the whole "Significant to the Canon of the Bible" part. There are two sources marked 21 and 22.
There is no excuse for you Christians and Jews. How can you possibly refute this?
Seriously, why do all you Christians and Jews say the scroll prove your point? It completely destroys your point. The Isaiah Scroll? That is only one out of 220 scrolls found. What about all the changes in the other ones? Sometimes the changes were "DRASTIC".
Raisonic 1 year ago
where are the missingbooks found inthe same caves
azelectricllc 1 year ago
Aloha, I think you would LOVE my VIDEOS! Warning, NEVER before seen MIND blowing information. My youtube account just got taken away after 43,000 views! HELP FIGHT the EVE of EL (EVIL). Peace, Love & Truthiracy
Truthiracy2 1 year ago
the racist state of Israel confiscated all the scrolls after the 1967 war and occupation of Jerusalem, the project of translating the scrolls that was conducted by honest archaeologists was halted, and Israelis exposed some of the scrolls and concealed the others, only to show them again in the nineties.
OVER 200 SCROLLS WERE DISCOVERED at the time, where are they?
WHAT A JOKE!
modo203 1 year ago
Why is everyone fighting over what church Jesus founded. people Jesus didnt come to earth create a church. but to die on the cross for the salvation of mankind. that was his sole purpose!! Man! why do u guys make it complicated? Jesus was so easy to understand. and yet people argue over Him as if He's some kind of a riddle. Just read the Bible and follow His teachings. it's as simple as drinking water. dont complicate anything. geeze!
HelloWorld1947 1 year ago
@HelloWorld1947 Jesus was a Jew who preached to Jews ONLY - check out your own bible. Christianity took on pagan strories about a sacrificed saviour, added a Jewish teacher, and BINGO - there is your religion.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@HelloWorld1947 Amen! Very well said! :)
CDNHoneybee 1 year ago
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@evo55 - The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures"
I suppose that is because human sacrifice was forbidden and that one person cannot atone for the sins of another, evo. The Jews weren't blinded. They remained true to their belief but the Christians twisted it a bit and added pagan lore, thanks to Paul.
LoraSinger 2 years ago
One question aside from this discussion - Paul in his many writings, seems to always be defending himself and stating that he is not a liar? Whey is that?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
looking at your peoples comments i suggest more research..if these scrolls werent found then christianity would be just about disproven right now..but the scrolls actually prove that jesus was real and all the spirituality in their..you should look up buddhism and hinduism because their teachings and the dead sea scrolls talk about the sme thing..
Look up gregg braden for this information he knows more and explains better.
Namaste
boomerskr3w 2 years ago
No, Christianity would not be "disproven" if the scrolls were not found. I can't see how that statement possibly makes sense. And the scrolls don't prove Jesus was real as they do not talk of Jesus. The works in the New Testament, however, speak of Jesus.
If you had read the Dead Sea Scrolls you would most definitely would not claim that say the same thing as Buddhism or Hinduism. Read a Buddhist or Hindu text along the War Scroll for example and tell me they're the same ;)
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@boomerskr3w -..but the scrolls actually prove that jesus was real...."
Is Jesus mentioned in the DSS? I was under the impression that only a "teacher of righteousness" and a "lying priest" were mentioned.
burningcrossDOTnet/crusades/dead-sea-scrolls-crisisDOThtml
Matthew1944 2 years ago
What a ridiculous 'book', if you want a real introduction read something by an actual scholar who knows what they are talking about. Tim Lim has a book called 'A Very Short Introduction to the DSS' which would be a far more fruitful read. On the point, Jesus is not mentioned in the scrolls - but numerous othjer people are from the community, the teacher of righteousness, the wicked priest, Jannaeus, the Pharisees (lovers of smooth things), the temple priests, etc.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry On the point, Jesus is not mentioned in the scrolls - but numerous othjer people are from the community, the teacher of righteousness, the wicked priest, Jannaeus, the Pharisees (lovers of smooth things), the temple priests, etc.
Are any of those named?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
We don't have names for the Wicked Priest or Teacher of Righteousness, however, some people debate their identities. If we take Alexander Jannaeus for example, we believe the scrolls talk about him because of the mention of him crucifying a heap of Pharisees. The temple priests are mentioned in a polemical document known as 4QMMT where the Qumran sectarians disagreed with how they carried out some temple practices.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - We don't have names for the Wicked Priest "
If the Quamran people are the Essenes, then the Wicked Priest might be Paul, whom they considered to be "the lying priest". Would that be possible?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Why would the Essenes consider Paul "the lying priest"? We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes. But that aside, the reason why it isn't a possibility is due to the fact that the Wicked Priest pre-dates Paul by a good hundred years.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - Pliny the Elder described a community of Essenes living on the western shore of the Dead Sea, close to where Khirbet Qumran is situated. If the Qumran community was not made up of Essenes, then they were completely ignored by every ancient writer and historian. That seems very unlikely.
The "liar" was an outsider who was admitted to the community, then turned renegade, quarrelled with the "Teacher" and hijacked part of the community's doctrine and membership.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
2)According to the Habakkuk Commentary, the Liar "did not listen to the word received by the Teacher of Righteousness from the mouth of God". Instead, he appealed to "the unfaithful of the New Covenant in that they have not believed in the Covenant of God and have profaned His holy name". The text states explicitly that "the Liar...flouted the Law in the midst of their whole congregation".
.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
3) That puts in mind the disagreement between the Jewish Christians and Paul, wherein they sent him off to preach to the gentiles
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Once again, ignoring the important details. You could speculate anything - maybe I was the Teacher of Righteousness and you were the Wicked Priest? However, like your example, the speculation fails in accounting for the evidence.
The Habbakuk Commenterary was composed as early as 120BCE. When was Paul born? A few years into the first century?
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
Once agian, what has this got to do with Paul? To repeat my questions: "Why would the Essenes consider Paul "the lying priest"? We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes. But that aside, the reason why it isn't a possibility is due to the fact that the Wicked Priest pre-dates Paul by a good hundred years. "
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry -We have no evidence of Paul having conflict with the Essenes.
It is my understanding that, after the fall of the temple in 70AD, what remained of Jesus followers at the Jerusalem Church went by the names of Essenes and Nazarenes who were eventually hunted down and killed as heretics by Pauline Christians.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
That is an erroneous understanding. You may be thinking of the Ebionites that emerged in the second century with an anti-Pauline swing, however, we have no evidence of them being an early group. Regarding the 'Nazarenes' as early Christians, many studies have shown that they were not in conflict with Paul or the other apostles, and shared orthodox Christology (e.g. Ray Pritz, Nazarene Jewish Christianity).
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - You may be thinking of the Ebionites
You're right, I was referring to Ebionites but calling them Essenes by mistake.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - 'Nazarenes' as early Christians, many studies have shown that they were not in conflict with Paul.
Didn't Jesus' followers preach righteousness, while Paul preached faith and Grace. Comparisons being Mark 10:17-19 (Jesus directions for gaining eternal life through following the commandments - the Law) versus Paul who felt that the law was a curse and it was faith that was the most important. Now James stated that faith without works is dead. It's pretty confusing.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - "they were not in conflict with Paul "
From a historical Ebionite site:
The testimony of the Ebionites has been preserved in two forms. Firstly, there are the summaries of Ebionite beliefs found in the writings of the Church authors Justin Martyr Irenaeus, Hippolytus and Tertullian , Origen and Epiphanius and JeromeThese all confirm that the Ebionites opposed Paul as a false apostle.
Your opinion?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 The Ebionites were in confict with Muhammed. The Ebionites denied the virgin birth of Jesus.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 - There are different opinions. Some say they were gone by 500 AD but some are recorded to be in Medina as late as 1100 AD. Muslim beliefs (Mohammed 570 AD) about Jesus, they say, were revealed in his Q'aran before any significant encounter with Christians. Considering the dates, most likely most of the Ebionites were few and far between, being wiped out by gentile Christians and orthodox Jews.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
The fact the Ebionites did not survive proves they were not the true Church founded by Jesus. Jesus promised that His true Church would not be overcome but be triumphant over it's enemies.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 The followers of Jesus, evo, were the people of the Jerusalem Church which was destroyed in 70 AD. What was left of them fled, later being called Ebionites or Nazarenes. Jesus had no interest in Gentiles. All the Jewish Christians, followers of Jesus, were just that - Jews who believed that Jesus was the predicted HUMAN messiah. Your so-called true church has no connection with them. In fact, it is your church that helped to destroy them.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
The Church founded by Jesus was an apostolic community with Peter as the head apostle. Peter left Jerusalem to be bishop of Antioch. Thereafter he went to Rome to be it's bishop. Jesus gave authority to His apostles to teach in His name. Jesus told them that He would be with them forever. Jesus did not leave His Church to be deafeated by unbelievers. The true Church will never be defeated, it is an eternal kingdom which will have no end. The Ebionites are no more, they were not the true Church.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 Peter was an apostle to the Jews, evo. Paul was the first apostle to the gentiles. Jesus was concerned with the Jews who were being Romanized by the Roman occupying force and that included the Jewish priests of that time. He also told his apostles to avoid the gentile towns and that he would be back before they had finished all the towns in Israel. Your "true church" is the one of Paul's invention.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 Peter was the first of the apostles to preach to gentiles; Acts 10. Jesus told the apostles to preach to all people. He would not return util all nations had heard the Gospel.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 Paul affirms that Peter had the special charge of being apostle to the Jews, just as he, Paul, was apostle to the Gentiles.
On the contrary, evo, Jesus said, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles.. (Matthew 10:5) ..but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24).... "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
Matthew.10:23 - "Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 You misunderstand the different phases of Jesus' mission. Jesus initial mission was as Messiah of Israel. When the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, the way of salvation was opened for all people. Thereafter Jesus commanded His disciples to go unto all the world and preach the Gospel to all people. It is after the Gospel has been preached to all nations that Christ will return.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 - That is what Christianity teaches yes but the difference is in the concept of messiah. The Jews were expecting a fully human messiah who would lead in kicking out the Romans and and had he done so, along with another number of other things DURING HIS LIFETIME he would have been accepted as the prophecied messiah. The Jewish concept of a messiah was not that of a man-god, evo.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
2) men-gods, virgin births, human sacrifice and bodily resurrection are not Jewish and Jesus was a Jew. Since these did not come from the Jews, where do you suppose they came from? That leaves only the pagans who did believe in those things.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
3) "Acts 13:47 "The Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth"
One of the things the messiah was to do during his lifetime was to convert the "whole earth" to Judaism. It is much more likely that his apostles mission was to do just that since they disagreed with Paul's doctrine.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
3) It is interesting, evo, that Josephus writes toward the end of the century (60 years later) and mentions three major religions in Israel, Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes but Christianity is never mentioned as a religion. Neither does he mention a crucifixion or resurrection.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 During the 1st century AD, Christianity was more of an underground movement than an established religion. Josephus does mention Jesus and his sect of followers.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 - It's true, Christianity was an underground religion because it was illegal until the third centruy. He mentions Jesus in two parts but both are either all or wholly forgeries since they were never mentioned before the time of Eusabius who is suspected of being the one who inserted them.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Scholars agree that Josephus mentions Jesus, they do not agree that Josephus believed Jesus to be the Christ.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 Josephus does mention Jesus and his sect of followers. "
Jesus followers were Christian Jews, NOT Gentile Jews. They were Jews in every sense of the word except that they believe that Jesus was the total human messiah, no different than Solomon or David, who would deliver them from the occupation of the Romans. They did not believe he was a god-man, evo.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
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evo55 1 year ago
Jesus followers were both Jews and gentiles. There is no separation, for all are one in Christ. The Ebionites were Jews who accepted Jesus as their Messiah but rejected other truths revealed by the Holy Spiirt. They were a side branch that died out for they did not remain united to the true Church founded by Jesus.
evo55 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 Acts 13:47 is meant to be fullfilled by the Church, the body of Christ. Jesus works through His Church to be a light unto the gentiles. The Messiah was to establish the kingdom of God and not to convert anyone to Judaism. Judaism was not meant to be the end of God's revelation. The fullfillment of God's revelation is in the Christian faith. Christianity is the completion of Judaism.
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 Christianity is the completion of Judaism. "
No it's not. It is a completely different belief system. The origin takes place in the same land and has a Jewish teacher as its center and nothing more.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
The Jewish teacher at the center of Old Testament Judaism was Jesus whom the Jews rejected. The destruction of the Jewish temple is a sign form God that Judaism has been replaced by the Christian revelation.
evo55 1 year ago
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@evo55 The destruction of the Jewish temple is a sign form God that Judaism has been replaced by the Christian revelation.
Wrong. The destruction of the temple by the Romans (the antichrist) had nothing to do with Christianity.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@LoraSinger The Torah is comprised by the first five books of the Bible. The Tanakh is the Old Testament scriptures. The Talmud are Jewish commentaries on the Bible plus Jewish myths and legends.
evo55 1 year ago
@LoraSinger As Daniel had predicted the Temple was destroyed after the Messiah had come, not before
jimcamilos 1 year ago
@jimcamilos The temple went down a couple to times, jim, and the messiah was to ha ve rebulit it IN HIS LIFETIME. Of course, it didn't happen.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@LoraSinger Of course he rebuilt it...
We are the temple of God.
We do away with the old law and live in the new Law through Jesus Christ.
jimcamilos 1 year ago
@jimcamilos - We do away with the old law and live in the new Law through Jesus Christ.
Really? How do you do away with an ETERNAL COVENANT and replace it?
LoraSinger 1 year ago
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@evo55 The Jewish teacher at the center of Old Testament Judaism was Jesus whom the Jews rejected"
Because he didn't meet the criteria of an annointed leader/king - a fully human messiah in the manner of Solomon and David.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures. They Jews were blinded by God, so they could not understand the Christian message of the Old Testament scriptures..
evo55 2 years ago
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@evo55 - The Christian message of the man/God, sacrificial death of Christ, and bodily resurrection is hidden in the Jewish scriptures"
I suppose that is because human sacrifice was forbidden and that one person cannot atone for the sins of another, evo. The Jews weren't blinded. They remained true to their belief but the Christians twisted it a bit and added pagan lore, thanks to Paul.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@They Jews were blinded by God, so they could not understand ,,,,,
The Jews have a book called the Talmud which is like your bible concordance which helps to understand the scriptures better. They have that benefit and you do not and for that reason, you put your own ideas into the scriptures. As well, you don't speak the language, aren't steeped in the culture, understand the idioms of the original language. As well, your OT is not the same as the original.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Jeremiah 8:8 condemns those writings that make up the Talmud. Jesus also condemned those traditions of the Jews that were not inspired by the Holy Spirit but were solely the conjectures of men.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 Jeremiah 8:8 condemns those writings that make up the Talmud"
Wrong. The Talmud hadn't even been written during the time of Jeremiah.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@LoraSinger Jewish commentaries were being written during the time of Jeremiah. These commentaries are from the pen of the scribes that make the Law into a lie.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 Jewish commentaries were being written during the time of Jeremiah
At the time of Jeremiah, all the commentaries were transmitted orally. After the diaspora in the first century, it was thought that the wisdom would be lost and then it was put to paper in the form of the Talmud. The Law is the Torah - the first five books of the Tanakh, evo.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@LoraSinger The modern day Tanakh comes from the Concil of Jamnia @ 135 AD. This council of Jewish scholars rejected the Septuagint Bible due to it's use by Christians in converting Jews to Christ.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 Do you know the difference, evo, between the Torah, Tanakh and Talmud?
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@LoraSinger What then does Jeremiah mean when he says, "the pen of the scribes has made the Law into a lie."? Has the actual Torah been corrupted?
evo55 1 year ago
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@evo55 @LoraSinger What then does Jeremiah mean when he says, "the pen of the scribes has made the Law into a lie."? Has the actual Torah been corrupted?
In Mechon mamre, Jeremiah 8, the original verse goes: "8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes."
LoraSinger 1 year ago
2) Mistranslation again, evo.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
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@evo55 Has the actual Torah been corrupted? "
No evo, the corruption has come in the form of mistranslation and editing by church fathers many years ago.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
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@LoraSinger I repeat, evo.
@evo55 @LoraSinger What then does Jeremiah mean when he says, "the pen of the scribes has made the Law into a lie."? Has the actual Torah been corrupted?
In Mechon mamre, Jeremiah 8, the original verse goes: "8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes."
Where is the reference to lies?
LoraSinger 1 year ago
The Christian Old Testament is closer to the original via the Septuagint, than the Masoretic text created by Jews after their rejection of Christ.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 The Christian Old Testament is closer to the original via the Septuagint, than the Masoretic text created by Jews after their rejection of Christ. "
Wrong. It was the original from which the Septuagint was taken and with translation and editing, was put to paper as Greek in 250 BC, then 500 years ago, with translation and editing, was put to paper in medieval English. The Tanakh has remained the same all the way through.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 The Jews were blinded by God so they could not understand the Christian concept of the Messiah revealed by the prophet Isaiah(Isaiah 29:10-12). The prophet Isiaah reveals the Messiah to be God(Isaiah 9:6).
evo55 2 years ago
@evo55 - The Jews were blinded by God so they could not understand the Christian concept of the Messiah "
That's what Christians like to think BUT the concept of a messiah is not what Christians accept and the Jews' concept came first. The Messiah was to be a fully human leader/ king just as David and Solomon were messiahs. Isaiah says nothing about Jesus.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@evo55 -The prophet Isiaah reveals the Messiah to be God(Isaiah 9:6).
Isaiah says nothing about Jesus.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Isaiah did see Jesus' glory and spoke about it; John 12:37-41. Your sinful pride blinds you to the truth.
evo55 1 year ago
@evo55 Isaiah did see Jesus' glory and spoke about
Isaiah has nothing to say about Jesus.
LoraSinger 1 year ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - "Tim Lim "
What are Tim Lim's credentials?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Timothy Lim is a professor at the University of Edinburgh and has the chair in Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Judaism there. You can find his profile on the School of Divinity website for Edinburgh.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry -has the chair in Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Judaism there. "
Is he Jewish?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
No idea, does that void his reputation as a professor at a top university?
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
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@OnlineBibleMinistry - does that void his reputation as a professor at a top university?
Certainly not but being Jewish would give him an added dimension to understanding Jewish culture, language, beliefs, traditions and history. One can have an understanding of the language without a real understanding of the people, unless one is of that culture.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
And that is assuming that contemporary Judaism is the same culture as the second temple period. We know that the period was in fact fragmented - we had the numerous Jewish groups, and it was Pharasaic Judaism that influenced Rabbinic Judaism post-fall to contemporary Judaism.
I wouldn't doubt Professor Lim's credibility and intimate knowledge of the period because he isn't remotely related to it down the family tree ;)
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry What a ridiculous 'book'"
Why is it ridiculous?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Because the author has no idea what he is talking about, hence the reason why it is published on a website. His agenda is polemical and most definitely not scholarly.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
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@OnlineBibleMinistry - Because the author has no idea what he is talking about"
Then you've read his entire text? He seems to know a great deal about ancient civilizations and his conclusions coincide with Eisenman and Allegro.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
2000 years ago huh that means they could have just been a family airlum to a jewish person thats it and Ive found out that the current way we date stuff can sometimes be far off.
DanHarlston 2 years ago
I doubt they were a family heirloom as there were around 700 scrolls in numerous caves, written and copied over a period of over 100 years.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
I want to read them, where can the dead sea scrolls be read, and have they been translated? Anyway the catholic church has already touched these scrolls and have removed anything contrary to their teachings.
zigzag1239 2 years ago
Yes, the scrolls (or most as many parts are just fragments) have been translated. However, many translations do not contain the canonical Biblical texts in translation.
A good translation of quite a few texts would be Geza Vermes' 'The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English'. (Note, does not actually contain all the scrolls.)
And no, the Catholic church has not touched the scrolls and removed anything contrary to their teachings.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
Thanks for the info. Have you heard of John Allegro? In 1953 he was the first British representative on the team working on the scrolls in Jordan. He wanted to have the scrolls translated for public viewing, however the priests he was working with did not want to make it public until they had a chance to review the info because they were afraid the scrolls would say something not in line with their teachings.
zigzag1239 2 years ago
No problem. Yes, I know John Allegro. The mythical hype of Allegro is addressed in the preface of Geza Vermes' translation.
The DSS are and were always out of the control of the Roman Catholic Church. The truth of the scrolls and their impact on understanding Messianic expectations, Jewish diversity and other issues in the Second Temple Period is far more interesting than the conspiratorial fiction.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry The DSS are and were always out of the control of the Roman Catholic Church.
Then why was it that Eisenman, in order to obtain copies from the Ecole Biblique, have to rely on photographs smuggled out over a period of years?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
An academic monopoly that has very little to do with a conspiracy ;)
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry However, many translations do not contain the canonical Biblical texts in translation.
Do they contain ANY of the NT?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Why don't translations of the scrolls contain any New Testament texts? Because there weren't any NT texts found (unless you follow Peter Carsten Thiede's interpretation on the cave 7 fragments as being Christian).
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry z'Why don't translations of the scrolls contain any New Testament texts? Because there weren't any NT texts found "
So this is pre-Christian and has nothing to do with the Christianity that came many years later, right?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Some of the texts are pre-Christian, whereas others may not - or they were at least copied in the first century. The community at Qumran was in existence at the same time as Christianity for a few decades, however, the Qumran group was intentionally in isolation so we don't know if their paths crossed with early Christians.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry -the Qumran group was intentionally in isolation.
Josephus spoke of three main religions, the Essenes being one of them.
Pliny the elder writes: "To the west (of the Dead Sea) the Essenes have put the necessary distance between themselves and the insalubrious shore
According to Philo "The Essenes live in a number of towns in Judea, and also in many villages and in large groups. They do not enlist by race, but by volunteers who have a zeal for righteousness "
Matthew1944 2 years ago
I don't see what you are trying to get at by posting some comments on the greater Essene movement? The sectarians at Qumran were an exclusivist community seeing themselves as the true Israel. Take a reead of 1QS and you will get a look at their community.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - don't see what you are trying to get at by posting some comments on the greater Essene movement?"
From what I've been reading, it seems that most scholars believe that the Essenes and the Quamran people are one and the same. Josephus writes that the main religions were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes and describes the Essenes in some detail but makes no mention of the Quamran people, perhaps because they are one and same?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry so we don't know if their paths crossed with early Christians."
Have you ever wondered if perhaps they were the early christians. There is the absence of Jesus from the age of 12 to the age of 30 and considering he was single at 30 (Jewish fathers were mandated to find a wife for their sons by the age of 20) - perhaps this is where Jesus was for those years - with the Quamran people.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
How could they have been early Christians (followers of the Christ, identified as Jesus) when the community existed before Jesus' ministry?
Jesus' abstinence is a rather peropheral point - for a connection, we would need to examine the evidence and teachins of Jesus. Jesus' approach to the temple and especially ritual cleanliness and strict interpretation of the law were worlds apart.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry -How could they have been early Christians "
Jesus put an emphasis on righteousness as did the Essenes. My question is whether he might have trained there in his "lost years" and eventually became the "teacher of righteousness".
Matthew1944 2 years ago
The Teacher of RIghteousness pre-dates Jesus, and they are very different individuals. The chronological absurdty aside, the Qumran community is in conflict with Jesus over chief interpretations of the law.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
Jesus associated with all of Jewish society from tax collectors (Luke 5), to the poor and sick (e.g. Matt 9), Samaritan women (John 4:9) and even the Pharisees (Luke 7:36; John 3:1). Jesus taught all these people, the multitudes (e.g. John 6) and in the temple (John 7:14). Jesus taught to not just love ones neighbour, but to love ones enemy and pray for those who persecute you (Matt 5:43-44).
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
Alternatively, the Qumran sectarians were far more exclusive. They taught to separate from the unjust men (1QS VIII.13) and hate their enemies, as well as anyone out of their clique (1QS I.10). They were exhorted to "conceal the teaching of the Law" and only share it with their own community.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry - The chronological absurdty aside, the Qumran community is in conflict with Jesus over chief interpretations of the law.
It seems to me that Jesus preached essentially what the Essenes believed - righteousness.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 Then I'd say you either don't know what Jesus preached or the Qumran sectarians preached. We can point to numerous occassions where they were deadly opposed to each other in both beliefs and practice. Of course they would have similarities - just as Jesus had with other Jewish groups at the time, probably most notably the Pharisees, but that is still no evidence for any of your claims.
OnlineBibleMinistry 2 years ago
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@OnlineBibleMinistry - just as Jesus had with other Jewish groups at the time, probably most notably the Pharisees,
I understant that the priests in the time of Jesus were appointed by the Romans to maintain order and quell rebellion so it would be natural for Jesus to rail against them since they would have had a hellinzing effect on the populace thereby diluting pure Judaism.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
2) Continued from "thereby diluting pure Judaism".
Considering Jesus statement "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." In fact it seems that he directs his apostles to avoid gentile towns "Go not into the way of the Gentiles". I suppose that would be because he expect to come back in the time frame of that generation ", I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. "
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry Then I'd say you either don't know what Jesus preached.
Well it seems to me that Jesus preached the Jewish belief of personal responsibility and righteousness. Is that wrong?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@OnlineBibleMinistry -Then I'd say you either don't know what Jesus preached or the Qumran sectarians preached.
You seem to know and that's why I'm asking. One does not learn without asking questions.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
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RobertBaral365 2 years ago 3
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Praise The Lord That He Chose To Reveal Himself and Save Us Who Believe.
PrayForJerusalem 2 years ago
There are books included in the Dead Sea Scrolls that are no longer included in the Bible. This is because MEN chose which books to include and omit, just as MEN chose the words to compose it with in the FIRST place. End of story. End of story. END OF STORY.
lotanddaughters 2 years ago
The Book of Enoch (1 Enoch) is the 3rd most frequent book found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Look in your own Bible. I bet it is not included. It's funny because this book is quoted in Jude 1:14-15. The Book of Jubilees is the 6th most frequent book found among the Dead Sea scrolls.
lotanddaughters 2 years ago
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I think God is too Mighty to not protect His Word , I know there's a promise of His somewhere that this world will pass away but His Word will never pass away.
PrayForJerusalem 2 years ago
There are books/letters from both the Old Testament and the New that were held as canon by some, but not by the majority and there were criteria by which these things were judged. Some believe that the Spirit of God guided his people in regards to what should and should not be accepted as scripture. Others believe politics kept God out of the process. Personally, I don't buy the idea that God was not sovereign over the compilation of his word. The other books are out there. Judge for yourselves.
preacherman777 2 years ago
lotand
Again, correct. The Intertestamental Books have been found in (relatively) large numbers at Qumran, long with all of that calendar material. None of it made into the Bible. And the OT texts at Qumran in fact demonstrate that there were no set texts of the Hebrew Scripures even as late as the 1st Century AD.
KonradAdenauer 2 years ago 3
@KonradAdenauer " -And the OT texts at Qumran in fact demonstrate that there were no set texts of the Hebrew Scripures even as late as the 1st Century AD.
Not even the Torah? Then what was translated into the Septuagint in 250 BC?
Matthew1944 2 years ago
actually the book of Enoch and the book of jubilees are part of the canon of the church on Ethiopia i think :)
DanieruDesu 2 years ago
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KonradAdenauer 2 years ago 2
I loved the video! Thanks!
The Lord knows what HE is doing!
I love HIS book!
Conquer2day 2 years ago
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!
lovejoypeace7777 3 years ago
Amen, Sister!
Baruch HaShem Adonai !
cdo4Jesus 3 years ago