Cherubic Hymn - St. George Greek Orthodox Cathedral Choir Greek Festival 2008

[Jenx10sen]

Glad to hear you are a survivor, but I am sorry you had to go through cancer. In the case of our woman who played the organ, her faith was exemplified on the TV news as she did a lot of "cancer runs" and "walks for the cure" and things like that. She talked about God openly on the news and about being Greek. The grace of God was definitely with her to the end.

[Jenx10sen]

She had been a 5 time cancer survivor. She had played the organ in our parish as a little girl. And for whatever reason, this nostalgia is what kept her close to the church. And before she died, she was coming to church regularly, but was too weak to play anymore. She was partaking in the sacraments, meeting with Father and by God's grace and that stupid organ..."endured until the end". Who am I to complain? I only hope to be so blessed.

[CantorNikolaos]

@Jenx10sen I am also a cancer survivor.

[Jenx10sen]

I chant in our choir and do not like the organ anymore than other traditionalists. We have even joked about accidentally pushing it over the balcony or allowing "mice" to eat the wiring. It was brought into our parish in the 1960s. HOWEVER, I was very humbled one day, when the woman who played the organ whom we only saw on major feast days (and cringed), sat down and told us what she was going through...

[LiturgicalChants]

Finally we can note, that in a collection of 1000 compact disc/LP recordings focusing entirely on Gregorian, Byzantine and other orthodox and catholic chant we find perhaps only 1 or 2 which contain organ or instrumental acompaniment in them. Showing that among the pure ideals of both academics and church hierarches "acappella" (of the chapel) singing is nearly always held as the standard.

[LiturgicalChants]

I as well, think that instruments in church should be forbidden generally. However in within Latin tradition which I come from, it is difficult to be an advocate of this pure approach which was once normal in the entire Church.. the worst problem here is that this music does not even sound greek to me. it is entirely western so it is replacing ones original culture with a very different much more modern protestant influenced form of music.

[mspinchey]

All Greek Orthodox choirs should be acapella. They only use an organ when the choir has pitch discrimination problems.

[apostolosk]

This Cherubic Hymn was NOT composed by Nicholas Roubanis. It is found in George Anastassiou's choir hymnal (p. 29) and titled "The Hymn of the Angels" (Russian Cheruvikon). It was dedicated to George Anastassiou by Nicholas Karlash, who is undoubtedly the composer.

I read the arguments regarding instruments in the church and, in fact, this is true. The tradition of the Church has been that the ONLY instrument allowed in the Church during worship is the human voice.

[cgnabod]

@Drepani13 So, do you also think that the microphones/speakers that the priests use in church should be forbidden, since they are electric and man-made? What about electric lights? Pews are man-made too...but all these things have been accepted by the Orthodox Church. Why can't an organ be permitted too?

[CantorNikolaos]

@cgnabod I do think electronic organs should be forbidden. They sound horrible. They are highly distracting, nauseating and they are a compromise of musical integrity. I would be extremely happy to have a pipe organ however. Unlike a factory mass-produced electronic mockery of an organ, a pipe organ represents the best of our abilities and resources. Offering God a mass-produced buzz-box is an insult.

I am a pipe organ builder and have offered to give the church a small pipe organ.

[cgnabod]

@dimitriupetru Just so you know, +His All-Holiness Patriarch Athenagoras, probably our most beloved and respected Ecumenical Patriarch in recent times, was a fervent supporter and advocate of organs in America. Sure, they are relatively knew and more 'foreign,' but our Church has evolved a lot over time... it is just another variation among the different jurisdictions--they all have their own customs/differences.

[Drepani13]

When God created humans He gave us voices to communicate and sing with and brains to think with. Anything God (or Jesus if you are christian) made is holy and permitted in church. God did not make the electric organ, humans did, therefore it should not be allowed in church. I think God knows what He's doing.

[dimitriupetru]

My Orthodox brothers!!! Organs are forbidden as instruments of worship in the Orthodox church!! The human voice is the ultimate musical instrument and God does not need artificial instruments!! May God forgive you and show you the right way.

[IoanShoji]

@dimitriupetru

I tell you that using Electronic Organ in Divine Services in Greek Orthodox parishes in USA a norm.

Also there are some other countries where Orthodox Church use Electronic Organ for services. I personally do not like this custom; however, this is the way the people in Greek Archdiocese America does.

There is a long history behind this custom. Also, this custom has been approved by bishops. If you want to say something, why do not you write a letter to Archbishop Demetrios?

[dimitriupetru]

@IoanShoji If I ask my priest, my Religion teacher, the Patriarch, whoever, the answer will be the same: instruments of any kind are forbidden in the church... This is what we were taught.

[IoanShoji]

@dimitriupetru

Do you know "ecomomia?"

Theologically, this is considered as an economia. I think your teacher knows this word,

This is practice is accepted by Greek Archdiocese which means, Ecumenical Patriarchate approved this practice as an "ecomonia."

Orthodox Christian World is bigger than what you think. Either you like or not, there are varieties.

May God grant you chances to visit Orthodox Churches outside of your country to see and experience variety of practices near future!

[CantorNikolaos]

@dimitriupetru All this Pharisaical nonsense about using instruments in church needs to go! Bells are instruments. Those wood things monks hit are likewise. Before you get all self-righteous about what the canons forbid, go find it in the Rudder and point it out to everyone! I doubt it's there!

Are you one of those guys who wears a large, conspicuous prayer rope and peasant costume in church? Do you stand in the middle of the church and make huge metanias for everyone to see?

[dimitriupetru]

@CantorNikolaos Forgive me, my neighbour. I didn't want to seem too critical, but still I think that there is no need for instruments in the church, as we already have the voice that God gave us. What if we brought guitars and sang our services on death rock tunes...? Bells and the wooden toacas are not used as musical instruments, but to call people to the service. They were used at first because people living at the countryside couldn't measure time but had to go to services on time.

[LiturgicalChants]

"From the tenth century, primitive organs were used in some monasteries and cathedrals, most famously at Winchester as also probably at Canterbury by the later twelh century. The very nature and use of medieval organs remains problematic so that "the organ remains the element of greatest obscurity among such musical resources as were available at the greater English fourteenth century churches" - A history of music at Christ Church Cathedral, Dublin by Barra Boydell, 2004

[LiturgicalChants]

@CantorNikolaos "As the singing should always have the principal place, the organ or other instruments should merely sustain and never oppress it." Any instance in which an organ obscures the human voice, so that you hear more the organ than the people and can not understand the words, means that the instrument has abused it's purpose and must be stopped. It originated as assistance and to give the pitch, much like "ison". All other forms are inappropriate abuses.

[kt2poohbear]

We sing this same one in my church with the organ. I looooovvvvveeee it! I am so blessed to be Orthodox.

[TonyWRO]

organ in orthodox church?

[macameroni]

where can i find the lyrics to this beautiful hymn so I can sing along in church??

[MrTheodosius]

i not have idea that in otthodox exist chant with organ!!

Great !!

thanks for sharing !!

PAX CHRISTI+

[theNIKOLAOSm]

@MrTheodosius only in that churches, which are in jurisdiction of Constantinople, very beautiful :) especially this cherubic is very beautiful with pipe organ

[Zeikan]

Can I download this version of the Cherubic Hymn anywhere? I can't find it, except here and at my own church.

[emperorofosiris1]

this is wonderful. I've just started to explore this type of music and its wonderous

[tallguyphl]

This is the Cherubic Hymn #9 composed by Gavriil LOMAKIN, not Roubanis.

Why the organ? Russian choirs have been singing this a cappella as intended for generations.

[jnpappanastos]

You're partially right.

In the United States, the Greek Orthodox Churches typically use organs.

The Russion Orthodox aka Orthodox Churches in America don't use organs. This works well when you have a good chior...not so much so if the chior tends to be off key.

I'd really like to hear how this would sound without the organ. This chior can definately carry it.

[deltadeltakilo]

FYI iN THE ISLANDS OF SYROS AND CORFU THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CATHERDRALS USE THE ORGAN.

[samthed]

This is a beautiful version.

[JimT1975]

This is my all time favorite Cherubic Hymn. My choir sings this once in a while. Wish it were more....