Corresponding with a Christian Literalist (2/2) - reupload NOW WITH SOUND! :)

[decosteve71]

The funny thing about your argument is as an atheist you are talking about God as if He's real!

[AtheistBrit]

@decosteve71 I guess you missed the part where I explained that because the christian literalist was speaking as if god was real, I was having to do the same.

[chev6art]

There is a reason it is vain to say "God damn." Because He is NOT the damner! The plagues are not God damning Egypt. They were judgements against the Egyptian gods (read Exodus 12:12). Pharaoh was on the wrong side of judgement and I have Sciptural precedent to back me up. Good seeing you again! You have a nice smile and love yoru hair style.

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art "You have a nice smile and love yoru hair style" thank you! :)

My point here is not that (according to the bible) god brought judgement against pharaoh, egypt, the egyptian gods... whomever, it doesn't really matter... the point is that the judgement was directed at someone by killing someone else, in this case, the innocent firstborns. That's absolutely unjust, which is a characteristic the literalist was saying god didn't exhibit.

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit If you read the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Exodus, you will realise that Pharoah was the initiator of killing firstborns. In Judaic tradition the family name is carried out in the first-born son. Or daughter if there are only daughters. What Pharoah sought was the extermination of the Jews therefore I am convinced the spirit that posessed Ramses II was the same one that inhabited Adolph Hitler. The death of the firstborn after Exodus 12 was judgement for that act.

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art "Pharoah was the initiator of killing firstborns" - as I said in another comment, the fact that Pharaoh did it first doesn't mean it's okay for god (or anyone) to do it back. The innocent still suffered for the crimes of another. I appreciate the informed debate :D

[chaimyamin]

@AtheistBrit Ramses reaped what he had sown.(read Galatians 6:7). Pharoah started a process that could not necessarily be stopped. God could not stop it. Exodus 12:23 said the destroyer was coming to Egypt to kill all the first-born. That was not God. God was warning the nation of Israel if they didn't cover their dwelling in blood the way the priests showed them, the destroyer would visit them, too. Why couldn't God stop it? Glad you asked. See my next frame.

[chev6art]

@chaimyamin chaim, you stole my thunder! May I suggest the destroyer was not of God, but of the devil? "the thief cometh not but to kill, steal and destroy (John 10:10). The Jews did not have a revelation that there was a spiritual battle between heaven and hell. As far as they knew, it was coming from the same source (God) and that's why Exodus was written that way. Why was that fact hid from them? Well, you see what they did when they learnt about a golden calf.

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit God gave dominion to Adam, beginning in Genesis 1:27. But in Genesis 3, Adam handed dominion to the devil by tempting him with disobedience. One act of disobedience resulted in the fall of mankind. And he was separated from God Who was now on the outside looking in on planet Earth. God was limited what he could do to help. But Jesus Christ took the limitations back off!! God is not the taker, but the Giver of life! Read the rest of the Bible-it'll open your eyes.

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art "Read the rest of the Bible-it'll open your eyes." - already have, and it already did. :)

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit About the 20th time I read it did I finally get it. Yes, Iv'e read it 20 times and I am not done. Don't know about you but I not only find God there, but I find life, health and prosperity! It's possible to have them because it's part of His Salvation Plan. AtheistBrit, you don't know what you're missing!

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art I find a very interesting collection of books but no evidence for anything beyond that. I'm pleased that you seem happy with your outcome and I am happy with mine, too. :)

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit You said you already read it and it already opened your eyes. Hmmmm...ever wonder if you'll have a life after your'e gone? The Bible says you will. "My Word have I magnified above all My Name." (Psalm 138:2) "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." (John 1:1) God is so intimitaley identified with the Bible in your house you are actually handling Him when you pick it up. Come to know Him--It's the best thing you'll ever do for yourself!

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art That's great. Harry Potter says that wizards are real and that if you run at the pillar between platforms 9 and 10 at King's Cross Station you'll be transported to platform 9 3/4. Thing is, in reality if you tried that you'd end up with nothing but a sore head! There's nothing about the bible which makes it any more factual than Harry Potter.

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit What's J.K. Rowling's plan of salvation?

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art so the bible talks about a plan for salvation, but isn't even consistent as to what it is. Is it by works, as illustrated in James 2:26 (and others), or by grace, as outlined in Ephesians 2:8-9? Even so, just because a book says it doesn't make it so. You're using the bible to prove the bible is true, which is circular reasoning. You also seem to make the mistake that most religious people do when dealing with atheists: assuming I haven't read your religious book. I have, repeatedly.

[chev6art]

@AtheistBrit James 2:26 and Ephesians 2:8,9 do not contradict each other. You obviously don't know Jesus as Lord and Saviour. But you don't have to stay that way! "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved!" (Act 16:31). Believe and God will open up His plan for yout life to you! Faith and works operate hand-in-hand. How? "With the heart a man believeth (the faith) and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (the works)." (Romans 10:10) He made it simple!

[AtheistBrit]

@chev6art forgive me, but you're starting to sound like a stuck record. You still haven't illustrated one good reason to believe that the bible is true. You added your own interpretation of Romans 10:10 - nowhere does it say "the faith" or "the works". To me, confession doesn't sound like "works". "Works" refers to doing good deeds, not confessing bad ones. So, I'll ask one more time, to give me one compelling piece of evidence that the bible is factually true.

[fingersticks74]

I thought I might try reading the bible for some light reading (lol). I read some gensis, then I turn to levitcus, chapter 1. SPRINKLE THE BLOOD! SWEET SAVOR! DISMEMBER! what the fuck, really?

[starclad]

men kill woman and children not god,men wrote bibles, Korans,Torahs etc as a means to control the different races through pitting one faith against the other will always keep the masses confused and separated therefore easy to control fear is the key.If the human race unites we will take back that power to control our own destiny reveling our true nature and the nature of god without coercion.Those few at the top of the pyramid are slowly losing control and the grand illusion is almost up.

[discipulo123]

you are wrong all over the place but let mi pick one. you are out of context. why you skip the beginning of exodus. present a consistent lecture, you are going to fast. read chapter on, who killed firsborn first? wasn`t it pharaoh?. how long jews were in slavery and harsh burden? 430 years right? and you call God unjust for punishing egypt, when egypt was punishing all israel for 430 years!!!!

i`ll get to leviticus later, abortion soon,

read and apply context!!!,read and ap.....

[AtheistBrit]

"Pharaoh killed them first" is a schoolyard argument. Just because Pharaoh did it first doesn't make it right to do it back.

And I don't think it was the innocent first born children who were punishing all of Israel for 430 years.

[cp3814]

Age of accountability (i've mentioned this several times before, and still you seem to keep on ignoring this)

Think about it.

[cp3814]

Sargitaurus, God's people will be attacked and persecuted. Scorpio, the sin of mankind has bad consequences. and others that i've forgot.

[cp3814]

PS: NOT implying u're a satanist or a free mason, etc. However, this is an interesting coincidence.

[AtheistBrit]

?? How's that even relevant? A few vids were uploaded on the same day, and that means somehow they're connected by an "interesting coincidence"? I'm confused.

[cp3814]

Well, u'll understand why this is revelant after u watch the videos i've told u about in my previous comments.

9/11 is an occult date. The 2001 incident was NOT a muslim attack; it was a conspiracy! The blueprint 3 of Jay-z was released on 9/11, 3 days ago. The music video will be a channel for satanic influence! I'm not Bs-ing here! I'm being intellectually honest!

Please open your eyes to the truth!

Be blessed,

cp

[AtheistBrit]

What?! OK now this is getting a bit far-fetched. I HAPPENED to reupload my previously made vids on 9/11. 9/11 was not a conspiracy and I'm frankly sick of the nuts that say it was (as there's no evidence, the "evidence" presented has all been debunked).

As for Jay-Z being a satanic influence... well I hate his music, but I wouldn't go that far... :)

[cp3814]

As i implied, you don't have to take this too seriously. It's was more like a speculation like a "oh, btw..." stuff. Sorry, if that comment offended u. However, pls do watch those videos. I would like to see ur opinion about them as well. Have i answered ur Bible questions with my previous comments to you?

[AtheistBrit]

You didn't offend me, it's all good :) I just got lost as to what on earth you were talking about haha!

Yes thanks, you've answered my questions - I got your opinion on the topic and that's exactly what I hoped for.

[cbr6864]

You just lost me. come on 9/11 was nothing more than a tool used to pave the way for the patriot acts. More people are seeing the truth now. there is a lot of evidence out there

[AtheistBrit]

I don't believe for a second that 9/11 was a conspiracy, BUT it was certainly a tragedy used as an excuse to invade Iraq.

[cp3814]

you know, i don't really either. but this is off topic, let's continue the Bible questions.

[cp3814]

I suggest u watch those videos as well. They are posted fairly recently and DO have points to consider. Could the illuminati be real? Are the "thank you, satan" in obama's "yes we can" speech fake? Why is it that Jay-z's black album has a song that says "666, murder-murder Jesus" when played backwards?!

How did MJ die? These are legitimate questions that we must honestly answer.

Also, beware of false prophets

/watch?v=8ETUvghM5kc&feature=r­elated

be blessed!

[AtheistBrit]

Jay-Z's backwards lyrics are explained simply by the fact that humans have pattern-seeking brains that pick out lyrics where in fact there are none.

And the Illuminati? You serious? Shape-shifting lizards controlling the world?

[AtheistBrit]

If you want more info on pattern-seeking, look up the court case where "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin was under scrutiny for satanic lyrics. That case was dismissed I think, because pattern-seeking was shown to be the cause.

[cp3814]

Have u seen those videos yet? Not convinced?

/watch?v=ONjuX1UKGCA&NR=1

This cannot be debunked. I've tried and failed. Now, it's your turn to try.

[cp3814]

Illuminati means "Enlightment", not some lizards. You are obviously confused by Catholic propaganda.

There are many who claim to be of free masonry (eg. Churchill, Jay-z, etc,)

[AtheistBrit]

My understanding of the "Illuminati" was that lizards from space that could shape-shift and look like people were secretly running the world. That's the use of the word by David Icke. Illuminati actually refers to several theories so that's where the confusion came in.

[cp3814]

Illuminati must mean "enlightening" for the word "illume" is in that word. This is consistent with the theory that Illuminatis=Luciferians/free masons

Look at the US dollar bill, see a pyramid with an eye on top? That's illuminati!

[AtheistBrit]

Some have suggested that the pyramid and the eye are the result of Masonic influence, but the only member of the original committee who was a Mason was Franklin and this committee's design was rejected by congress. None of the final designers of the seal was a Mason. The use of "the all seeing eye" as uniquely Masonic first appeared in 1797, nearly 15 years after the adoption of the symbolism by Congress

[cp3814]

And guess who the illuminatis are? Free masons! Some even to 33rd degree like Obama and some like Jay-Z to the 3rd degree (master mason). Jay's 3rd degree in masnory corresponds to his album the Blueprint 3 which was release 3 days ago (9/11). Creepy eh?

[cp3814]

**masonry**

[AtheistBrit]

I still see nothing but rumours on this, no actual proof. People make up stuff like this all the time, clutching on tentative links and assertions without fact-checking.

Anyway, none of this is at all relevant to the video!

[cp3814]

Right, none of this is revelant, however slight.

This is a "btw...did u know" thing

[AtheistBrit]

Ok, with you. Probably better to PM that sort of thing in future :)

[cp3814]

Ok, to sum things up over here:

1. I suggest you go to a Bible-based, Bible-doctrine teaching-based Baptist church in your area.

2. I suggest you read both the OT and NT, so that you'll understand why things are done the way they are done in the OT (eg. blood sacrifices, flood, man-slaughter, etc.)

And lastly, feel free to ask me ANY and ALL Bible questions that you may have via comments or PM (i would suggest PM).

Be blessed!

[AtheistBrit]

1) Done Baptist churches, no thanks.

2) Read them both rather a lot, done Bible studies etc.

3) I will, thanks :)

[cp3814]

1. What's wrong with those churches?

2. Ok, tell me the 6 prinicples of Bible interpretation (u should know, if u DID do Bible studies)

3. Be sure to!

[cp3814]

Also, 1.If Baptist churches are 'too strict' in clothing or stuff like that, u can find a Charismatic church too. My church is actually Charismatic and they have more 'miracles' (baptism of Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues), if u will, occuring than any other churches. So u can try them too. Remember the Bible says "to try the spirits" meaning we must be able to discern the "spirit of truth and spirit of error". This principle is what Baptist esp. emphasize, ie we should "rightly divide" the Word

[GxManx]

cp3814, the Idea of speaking in tounges you just mentioned, you clearly have not studied the new testament, and there you are accusing her of not reading it lol.

And as far as charasmatic churches... they are under the influence and control of Satan according to that bible you clearly havent studied yourself either. As far as 'miracles' bible said that Satan will perform miracles in the sight of men that if possible he would deceive the very elect. Gods church is based on truth not miracles.

[cp3814]

No, GxManx, i know exaclty what speaking in tongues meant-Speaking in other languages! Not this 'glossia' BS of some pentecostal churches. For instance, there has been a recent revival in Argentina and one time a boy in one of the revival services began to speak in English, which he has never learned! That's what we would call 'speaking in tongues'.

And when did i accuse her (or anyone for that matter) of not reading "it" (what is 'it' anyways?)? I think you're confusing me with someone else.

[GxManx]

Go read acts.

The "Gift of tounges" is not what you just came up with.

There is no scripture support that Gods church will be based off whether they have the gift of tounges. The final Church is the Laodecean Church according to Revelation 3, which has specific characteristics and historical support as to where and when. What you have said has nothing to do with anything.

Also, gift of tounges was not the people speaking more languages. It was something entirely different, Go Read Acts

[cp3814]

Anyways, i'm not personally against any denomination. However, I am against the Catholic and Anglican churches. They have done the most damage to Christianity and its reputation! Beware and stay away from those hypocritical churches. Most popes, fathers, etc. ARE anti-christs!!

[cp3814]

Btw, i have a very good friend here in YT that has a bachelor degree in Bible studies; he's esp. good at answering New Testament questions (eg. "conflicting" accounts in the 4 Gospels). I can introduce him to you, if you like, and you can ask him ANYTHING (Seriously, this guy can answer some very tough questions that i cannot, in a million years, answer!)

[notesfromaboveground]

saying that a charismatic church can substitute for a baptist church just shows how little you care about doctrine (unfortunately rendering any of your opinions on it useless), and your mentioning that there are 'more miracles in it than other denominations' in order to gain interest in the former just goes further to prove that

[cp3814]

Be careful about labeling! Not all Charismatics believe the same things. There are, for instance, "health and wealth" theology and also "experience" theology that some pentecostals and Charismatics hold to be true. Others, however, emphasize both doctrine and workings of the Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is real and it does happen! It has been said that doctrine is like the train and the anointing of the Spirit is like the track. We need to emphasize BOTH!

[notesfromaboveground]

obviously none of this matters to you, because if it did you would have been more specific when you recommended that AtheistBrit visit a charismatic church instead of a baptist one for the ridiculous reason of the latter being too strict - if baptist churches really teach the truth then it doesn't really matter how you have to dress in order to attend their services, does it?

all you said was 'find a charismatic church' meaning you don't really care which one it is or what they believe in it

[cp3814]

/watch?v=ONjuX1UKGCA&NR=1

Watch all 11 parts, and you'll get goose bumps, i guarantee. Only willfully ignorant people will not accept the fact that Illuminatis are dead REAL!

[cp3814]

"Light bearer"=Lucifer

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning" (Is. 14:12)

Thus, illuminatis worship Lucifer, and during Obama's "Yes we can" speech, many are muttering "thank you, satan!" You see the plots?

[cp3814]

If u lost the links:

/watch?v=PFXdFTd2U24&feature=r­elated ("thank you, satan" mutters during Obama's "yes we can" speech.)

and

/watch?v=ONjuX1UKGCA&NR=1 (free masonry exposed!)

[cp3814]

Was this a coincidence or what? This video was uploaded on 9/11 (same date the Blueprint 3 of Jay-z was released!)

See these interesting videos:

/watch?v=ONjuX1UKGCA&NR=1

AND

/watch?v=nvRI1VnQAEc&feature=r­elated

be blessed!

[cp3814]

Also, in 1 Peter 3:18-20 (? i believe) mentions that Jesus preached in hell when he died. This means that almost everyone before Jesus' time and before the flood were SAVED! Except for disobedient ones, who chooses to reject Jesus when he was "preaching to the souls in prison". So this means, MORE people in heaven than in hell at the end!

God is holy and just!

[cp3814]

Why was the flood needed? Well, yes, God could have just clicked and remake everything from scratch. However, that would suggest that He was incapable of using evil for good. God didn't create evil, but He does use them for ultimate good. Kids who are drowned go to heaven; if they were allowed to live then they will reach the age of accountability and thus go to hell (since they live in such evil society, they won't ever hear the truth). So the flood was a just act. CONT.

[AtheistBrit]

Apparently also those who've never heard the message of Christ will not go to Hell seeing as it's not their fault they never heard of Jesus... so why don't Christians just keep quiet about it and then more people will be saved from Hell? :)

[cp3814]

Oh that's an easy one.

First, we need to understand that God reveals Himself in 2 ways: Natural revelation and special revelation. Natural revelation is God revealing Himself via nature. Special revelation is God revealing Himself via the Book of books. Everyone has had a chance to accept Jesus. Everyone. "...for they are without excuse." God works this way: He makes Himself known in nature, and when ppl respond positively to that small ray of light, God sends ppl to preach the gospel to them.

[AtheistBrit]

How then, through nature alone, is someone supposed to deduce that God (the God of the Bible, not just ANY God), and that 2,000 years ago he sent his son to die on the cross and to get to heaven you have to accept him as your saviour?

Please tell me how an Amazonian tribe which has had no contact with the West is supposed to know that.

[cp3814]

It's note worthy that the most ancient civilizations were monotheistic. Ask any archaeologist! Chinese, for instance, originally worshipped only 1 supreme deity whom they call Shang Ti (heavenly emperor). Sumerians originally worshipped one god named An ("High"). This is shown clearly from their cuneiform tablets! Also, the Hindus are essentially monotheistic as well (their "Brahma"). So it would not be surprising that every civilization would originally believe in one god. CONT.

[cp3814]

Also, there are degrees of punishment in hell. For those who had less opportunity (Sodomites for instance), less judgment. For those who had MORE opportunity (eg. Pharisees, closed-minded atheists), more judgment. No one has the chance to go to hell if he has not reached the Age of accountability (a sadly neglected doctrine). All babies, kids, 'retards', etc. GOES TO HEAVEN, not hell.

Hope this answers your question.

[cbr6864]

story of noah stolen from epic gilgamesh 1000s of years earler.

[cp3814]

Or vice versa, cbr6864?

Sumerians were no doubt the earliest post-diluvian civilization (c. 2500 BC). It would not be surprising if they were monotheists or have similar accounts of noah's flood. Have u thought of it this way? Why is it that Bible skeptics continue to echo Satan's very question "Yea, hath God said?"?? Strange?

[cp3814]

Gemini, redemption of man to God (become as one) or God and Jesus or Adam and Eve. Libra, for the balancing of the scales of justice, Jesus had to die for our sins. Leo, the lion of the tribe of Judah shall be VICTORIOUS at the end.

These are just some speculations and hypotheses.

Bible codes are also interesting. I suggest u read "Bible code bombshell" (by R. Edwin Sherman).

[AtheistBrit]

Bible Code?! Oh dear.

Check out this video: /watch?v=T79uaP_Kx6E

[cp3814]

Well, that's just a strawman argument. Go to that video, and see my comments and we can discuss there.

[cbr6864]

WHAT?????? LOL

sumerian tablets far pre date moses and thet are in stone your bible was thrown together by empire constantine to gain control and enslave the people guess he di a good job still works today. post some facts then we will talk.

[cp3814]

There is some evidence that the Bible was originally written "in the stars". Our modern zodiac could be a distortion of that primeval message to mankind. Virgo could represent God's promise in Gen 3:15, where the seed of the woman (Jesus) will crush Satan's head. Capricon could represent the evil in Noah's day. Aquarius, the flood. Pisces, new beginning. Aries, the atonement of Christ when the time is right. Taurus, slained Ram becomes the powerful bull to destroy his enemies. CONT.

[cp3814]

Old testament's 'bloody animal sacrifices' serve as the ultimate reminder that God will redeem fallen man with His own sufferings, blood, and death. In other words, these rituals point to Christ's once-and-for-all atonement on the cross.

[TheFallibleFiend]

Any open-minded person who reads the Bible would realize that it's just stories.

[temenieque]

i am not good in writing but there is lot off mistakes in bible, you think god can eat like us or dream, slip, take a break, ( like smile...) can you give a definition of gob ! god like who give respect for him this things in earth is his creation can you believe that what you create you want him !!